Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Tue, 2019-03-26 at 15:34 -0700, Britt Yazel via desktop-devel-list wrote: > 1) Having an indicator to let us know of running background apps > after the window has been closed. > 2) Having an indicator that has some level of user interaction, i.e. > a messaging app 3) Having an indicator for a

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 5:52 PM, Ty Young via desktop-devel-list wrote: Agreed. Apologies. Is there an active list where this can be brought up that is actually active? Gnome has like 50 and most aren't active at all. For future reference, the best place to have discussions not related to

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On 4/22/19 4:12 PM, Shaun McCance wrote: On Mon, 2019-04-22 at 15:50 -0500, Ty Young via desktop-devel-list wrote: On 4/22/19 9:42 AM, Shaun McCance wrote: I can't speak to the rest of this long email, but I can clarify one thing: On Fri, 2019-04-19 at 18:05 -0500, Ty Young via

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Mon, 2019-04-22 at 15:50 -0500, Ty Young via desktop-devel-list wrote: > On 4/22/19 9:42 AM, Shaun McCance wrote: > > I can't speak to the rest of this long email, but I can clarify one > > thing: > > > > On Fri, 2019-04-19 at 18:05 -0500, Ty Young via desktop-devel-list > > wrote: > > > A)

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On 4/22/19 9:42 AM, Shaun McCance wrote: I can't speak to the rest of this long email, but I can clarify one thing: On Fri, 2019-04-19 at 18:05 -0500, Ty Young via desktop-devel-list wrote: A) Calling "activities" the "overview". These are used interchangeably. Search "overview" in Gnome

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

I can't speak to the rest of this long email, but I can clarify one thing: On Fri, 2019-04-19 at 18:05 -0500, Ty Young via desktop-devel-list wrote: > A) Calling "activities" the "overview". These are used > interchangeably. Search "overview" in Gnome Software and you will get > extensions that

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

Going in to read this thread, I had two issues regarding the premises behind the removal of status icons: 1. Status icons' use-cases are already 100% covered by other design patterns 2. Applications will change to conform to the new HID guidelines. I take issue with both. For starters, a lot of

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

Thank you so much for bringing this up(again). I had originally only subscribed to this mailing list to see if some bugs I had ran across in 3.32 were already known(to which no one replied but whatever) but I'm glad because it only proves one of my points about Gnome shooting itself in the

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 11:42 AM Britt Yazel via desktop-devel-list wrote: > > I don't like not knowing if Telegram/Discord/Steam are still running after I > close them. [...] I'm not sure why exactly these apps don't show a running > indicator in the Dash for this use case. As far as the

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

How does KDE deal with appindicators? Is there something we could partner with then on? Are they trying to solve this also? Did KDE modify the spec? Not knowing much about the nuance of the different indicator solutions, my experience with kstatusnotifier has been fairly great. 5/6 icons show up

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

Thank you Jean and Neils. Sorry for hijacking, I am not active here anymore and couldn't find the option. On Mon, 25 Mar, 2019, 3:54 PM Niels De Graef, wrote: > Hey Justin, > > You can do so by going to the following link: > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > At the

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

Ok, expanding on Sri's email I think we have two related but separate use cases here: 1) Having an indicator to let us know of running background apps after the window has been closed. 2) Having an indicator that has some level of user interaction, i.e. a messaging app With that said, we have

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 12:33 PM, Florian =?iso-8859-1?q?M=FCllner?= wrote: I'm not. The StatusNotifier spec is seriously flawed, and I don't want to support it unless at least the issues that were raised ten years ago are addressed (the spec was put up for "review" on xdg-list, but then any

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

I don't think that using TopIcons is somehow bad or impure, it is just inconsistent in whether or not it is maintained or not. The fact that we have Topicons, TopIcons Plus, and TopIcons Redux just shows the inconsistency. And our end-users all probably don't know which of the three is the the one

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

Ok, expanding on Sri's email I think we have two related but separate use cases here: 1) Having an indicator to let us know of running background apps after the window has been closed. 2) Having an indicator that has some level of user interaction, i.e. a messaging app With that said, we have

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Tue, 2019-03-26 at 18:06 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 3:24 PM wrote: > > > > > > > I am too, but there is more to this. I'm forced to use topicons or > > some other because when I ask an application to quit, I have found > > that > > some applications don't

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 3:24 PM wrote: > > > > > I am too, but there is more to this. I'm forced to use topicons or > some other because when I ask an application to quit, I have found that > some applications don't really quit but instead are sitting in the > notification area. That's kind of

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Mon, 2019-03-25 at 14:38 +0100, Alexandre Franke wrote: > On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 7:07 PM Britt Yazel > wrote: > > I want to re-poen an old argument now that we have seen the effects > > of > > removing the sys-tray/app-indicator tray for well over a year. In > > short, the > > users are not

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

Is there not away to improve the spec while also maintaining backwards compatibility with the current statusnotifier (I'm not sure if that's the right name) spec? Kstatusnotifier works well on the surface, it sounds like behind the scenes there may be issues, but even if we just used the current

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

Hi Britt, Just commenting on the parts I have answers to... Britt Yazel wrote: ... > 2) Back in early GNOME3 we had the slide up tray from the bottom. Am I the > only one who thought that was super cool? It had nice big icons for touch and > accessibility purposes, and it was just really cool

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

Am Mo., 25. März 2019 um 19:39 Uhr schrieb Emmanuele Bassi via desktop-devel-list : > > > > On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 at 18:27, Florian Müllner wrote: >> >> On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 6:50 PM Emmanuele Bassi wrote: >> > >> > You cut the part where I said the appindicator implementation should be >> >

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

How does KDE deal with appindicators? Is there something we could partner with then on? Are they trying to solve this also? Did KDE modify the spec? Not knowing much about the nuance of the different indicator solutions, my experience with kstatusnotifier has been fairly great. 5/6 icons show up

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 at 18:27, Florian Müllner wrote: > On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 6:50 PM Emmanuele Bassi wrote: > > > > You cut the part where I said the appindicator implementation should be > changed. :-) > > I thought you were referring to the client library, not the underlying > spec :-) >

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 6:50 PM Emmanuele Bassi wrote: > > You cut the part where I said the appindicator implementation should be > changed. :-) I thought you were referring to the client library, not the underlying spec :-) Cheers, Florian ___

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 at 17:34, Florian Müllner wrote: > On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 5:36 PM Emmanuele Bassi via desktop-devel-list > wrote: > > > > If the answer to status icons is to adopt/adapt the appindicator API, > I'm also fine with that; > > I'm not. The StatusNotifier spec is seriously

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 5:36 PM Emmanuele Bassi via desktop-devel-list wrote: > > If the answer to status icons is to adopt/adapt the appindicator API, I'm > also fine with that; I'm not. The StatusNotifier spec is seriously flawed, and I don't want to support it unless at least the issues that

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Mon, 2019-03-25 at 12:22 -0400, Will Thompson wrote: > > [...] In particular, several third-party, non-free apps like Dropbox > which are partially or totally unusable without a status notifier > already support it. (Not to make this all about Dropbox – it's just > an app I use that falls into

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 at 16:29, Will Thompson wrote: > On the other hand: this API under its various names is already > widely-supported both by (non-GNOME) apps, and by widely-used desktop > environments – a virtuous cycle. In particular, several third-party, > non-free apps like Dropbox which

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On 2019-03-25 12:15 p.m., mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote: I wonder if there's been any serious design consideration of this proposal? The dash seems like it might be a safer place to put things than allowing applications to clutter the precious top bar. Not to be impertinent, but attached is my

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 at 16:15, wrote: The dash seems like it might be a safer place to put things > than allowing applications to clutter the precious top bar. > Like every other solution for placing stuff into the overview, this fails to take into account menus created by status icons; the

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

I agree with Britt. In Endless we currently ship an in-tree copy of TopIcons, but this won't fly in a Wayland world, so we're considering what to do in future. On Mon, 25 Mar 2019, at 11:20, Emmanuele Bassi via desktop-devel-list wrote: > Sadly, this means a complete API change, which makes the

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Mon, 2019-03-25 at 10:21 -0400, Pat Suwalski wrote: > > [...] > Is that a joke? On a default gnome install on any modern screen, > only about 25% of the top bar contains any information at all. It > can't be "the most important real estate" and be so underutilized. It really can. One stated

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

Since GNOME is just badly copying Android design , we can just do it properly and display the symbolic icons of applications showing notifications next to the clock. We need to make sure the notifications are not abused like tray icons were, though. It is good we can already disable

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 1:06 PM, Britt Yazel wrote: I believe that there is an elegant solution to handling sys-tray icons without sacrificing our core goals, one idea being to incorporate it into the Dash. I wonder if there's been any serious design consideration of this proposal? The dash

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On 2019-03-25 11:07 a.m., Andre Klapper wrote: You may want to disable "Plugins > Notifications" in Rhythmbox to not flood your notification area with things you don't consider helpful. I think you have just corroborated my point. You can hide notifications you don't want. The notification

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On 2019-03-25 7:19 a.m., Emmanuele Bassi via desktop-devel-list wrote: Which would achieve nothing except, once again, shoving icons and menus into one of the most important pieces of screen real estate we have just because some application developers simply cannot live without their

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Mon, 2019-03-25 at 10:49 -0400, Pat Suwalski wrote: > On 2019-03-25 10:37 a.m., Emmanuele Bassi wrote: > > On a default gnome install on any modern screen, only > > about 25% of the top bar contains any information at all. It can't be > > "the most important real estate" and be so

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 2:38 PM Alexandre Franke wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 7:07 PM Britt Yazel wrote: > > I want to re-poen an old argument now that we have seen the effects of > > > > An example of this biting us in the arse is that with 3.32 > > TopIcons is causing the CPU usage to

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On 2019-03-25 10:37 a.m., Emmanuele Bassi via desktop-devel-list wrote: On a default gnome install on any modern screen, only about 25% of the top bar contains any information at all. It can't be "the most important real estate" and be so underutilized. It's important because it's

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

I am an end user.   I was an avid Gnome user for the past 10 years, until 3.28.  Then I had enough. Gnome's changes have driven me to use KDE.  I will accept performance improvements, bot not improvements that take away convenience.  Want me back? I just find that Gnome does not publish a

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 at 14:29, Pat Suwalski wrote: > On 2019-03-25 7:19 a.m., Emmanuele Bassi via desktop-devel-list wrote: > > Which would achieve nothing except, once again, shoving icons and menus > > into one of the most important pieces of screen real estate we have just > > because some

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 7:07 PM Britt Yazel wrote: > I want to re-poen an old argument now that we have seen the effects of > removing the sys-tray/app-indicator tray for well over a year. In short, the > users are not happy. *Some* users. Please refrain from making such dubious claims when

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 9:57 AM Allan Day via desktop-devel-list wrote: >> An example of this biting us in the arse is that with 3.32 TopIcons is >> causing the CPU usage to run through the roof, and people are blaming the >> Shell for the CPU usage, not the extension, leaving our users with a

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 at 10:39, Daniel Mustieles García via desktop-devel-list wrote: > Can't GtkStatusIcon be modified to show icons in the top bar? > No. GtkStatusIcon encodes the XEMBED-based tray icon specification; this means that the application code is responsible for: - sending icon

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

El lun., 25 mar. 2019 a las 12:19, Emmanuele Bassi () escribió: > On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 at 10:39, Daniel Mustieles García via > desktop-devel-list wrote: > >> Can't GtkStatusIcon be modified to show icons in the top bar? >> > > No. > > GtkStatusIcon encodes the XEMBED-based tray icon

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

Can't GtkStatusIcon be modified to show icons in the top bar? Permanently adding the extension code to the shell (which, if I've undesrtood properly, "moves" icons from tray to topbar) will be a dirty but effective solution. I think, from my deep lack of knowledge about how it works, thak

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

Hey Justin, You can do so by going to the following link: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list At the bottom, you will find the appropriate button to unsubscribe. Cheers, nielsdg On ma, Mar 25, 2019 at 11:18 AM, Justin Joseph via desktop-devel-list wrote: Sorry, how

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

Sorry, how do I unsubscribe from this list? I can't find any option. On Mon, 25 Mar, 2019, 2:27 PM Allan Day via desktop-devel-list, < desktop-devel-list@gnome.org> wrote: > Hey Britt, > > Britt Yazel wrote: > >> >> I want to re-poen an old argument now that we have seen the effects of >>

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

Link Dupont wrote: ... > Is there a place > in the System menu (the top-right corner menu) where these application > icons + menus could live? The GSConnect extension adds an entry there. > ... Unfortunately, GtkStatusIcon is limited in what it allows us to do: you can't embed the icons in

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

Hi This extension (Topicons) shows tray icons in the topbar so it would be possible to always show them in the topbar instead of using the tray without touching the code in the source applications. Regards El lun., 25 mar. 2019 a las 9:57,

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

Hey Britt, Britt Yazel wrote: > > I want to re-poen an old argument now that we have seen the effects of > removing the sys-tray/app-indicator tray for well over a year. In short, > the users are not happy. > As I recently wrote on GitLab [1], I'm open to re-evaluating this from a design

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

On Sat, 2019-03-23 at 11:06 -0700, Britt Yazel wrote: > Ladies and Gentlemen, > > Congrats on an excellent 3.32 release! As the one handling the front > facing side of our social media accounts, I can safely say that the > users are EXTREMELY happy with the changes, both features and >

Re: I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

I think we could have a set number of icons displayed and more in the system menu. The problems comes from the usability with touchscreens, where the icons would be to small. I wonder how Windows doors it with its Tablet mode though. Does it just hide everything? Le dim. 24 mars 2019 à 04:58,

I believe we should reconsider our sys-tray removal

Ladies and Gentlemen, Congrats on an excellent 3.32 release! As the one handling the front facing side of our social media accounts, I can safely say that the users are EXTREMELY happy with the changes, both features and performance, so give yourselves a nice pat on the back :-) I want to