Re: [GitLab] Gravatar vs libravatar

[Carlos Soriano]

Apologies, hit reply too fast.

Sure, I’ll get in touch with them to find out what that means.


That would be great, thanks. It's clear that we eventually want to have an
alternative to Gravatar... let Andrea, "wicked" or me know what are your
findings.

Cheers

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 at 18:03, Carlos Soriano  wrote:

> I'm not sure, contact Andrea Veri for more. We definitely got dissapointed
> by finding this suddenly, and we should have investigated a bit more before
> hand. So for now sysadmins wants it disabled.
>
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 at 17:26, Alexandre Franke  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 3:52 PM Carlos Soriano 
>> wrote:
>> > Right we read that too, although it doesn't give very high hopes.
>>
>> How so? The maintainer was alone and wanted to stop so he announced
>> the stop with a few months notice, but many people stepped up and have
>> formed a team. One can read their coordination effort in public
>> meeting minutes on their wiki. So instead of the alarming “the service
>> is shutting down” you reported here, it actually is getting stronger
>> maintainership. If that is not hopeful news, I don’t know what will do
>> it for you.
>>
>> > The main problem is the second point, it just redirects stuff to
>> Gravatar, so not much point (and quite shady imho)
>>
>> That part is indeed concerning and requires clarification.
>>
>> > If someone wants to help with that and contact libravatar developers
>> feel free to do so.
>>
>> Sure, I’ll get in touch with them to find out what that means.
>>
>> Now here’s a question because what happens is not clear to me: did the
>> libravatar call all redirect to gravatar, or just some of them? In the
>> latter case, maybe reverting was a hasty decision as reducing the
>> number of calls, while not as perfect as we expected, is still
>> progress.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> --
>> Alexandre Franke
>> GNOME Hacker
>>
>
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Re: [GitLab] Gravatar vs libravatar

[Carlos Soriano]

I'm not sure, contact Andrea Veri for more. We definitely got dissapointed
by finding this suddenly, and we should have investigated a bit more before
hand. So for now sysadmins wants it disabled.

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 at 17:26, Alexandre Franke  wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 3:52 PM Carlos Soriano  wrote:
> > Right we read that too, although it doesn't give very high hopes.
>
> How so? The maintainer was alone and wanted to stop so he announced
> the stop with a few months notice, but many people stepped up and have
> formed a team. One can read their coordination effort in public
> meeting minutes on their wiki. So instead of the alarming “the service
> is shutting down” you reported here, it actually is getting stronger
> maintainership. If that is not hopeful news, I don’t know what will do
> it for you.
>
> > The main problem is the second point, it just redirects stuff to
> Gravatar, so not much point (and quite shady imho)
>
> That part is indeed concerning and requires clarification.
>
> > If someone wants to help with that and contact libravatar developers
> feel free to do so.
>
> Sure, I’ll get in touch with them to find out what that means.
>
> Now here’s a question because what happens is not clear to me: did the
> libravatar call all redirect to gravatar, or just some of them? In the
> latter case, maybe reverting was a hasty decision as reducing the
> number of calls, while not as perfect as we expected, is still
> progress.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Alexandre Franke
> GNOME Hacker
>
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Re: [GitLab] Gravatar vs libravatar

[Alexandre Franke]

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 3:52 PM Carlos Soriano  wrote:
> Right we read that too, although it doesn't give very high hopes.

How so? The maintainer was alone and wanted to stop so he announced
the stop with a few months notice, but many people stepped up and have
formed a team. One can read their coordination effort in public
meeting minutes on their wiki. So instead of the alarming “the service
is shutting down” you reported here, it actually is getting stronger
maintainership. If that is not hopeful news, I don’t know what will do
it for you.

> The main problem is the second point, it just redirects stuff to Gravatar, so 
> not much point (and quite shady imho)

That part is indeed concerning and requires clarification.

> If someone wants to help with that and contact libravatar developers feel 
> free to do so.

Sure, I’ll get in touch with them to find out what that means.

Now here’s a question because what happens is not clear to me: did the
libravatar call all redirect to gravatar, or just some of them? In the
latter case, maybe reverting was a hasty decision as reducing the
number of calls, while not as perfect as we expected, is still
progress.

Cheers,

-- 
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GNOME Hacker
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Re: [GitLab] Gravatar vs libravatar

[Carlos Soriano]

Right we read that too, although it doesn't give very high hopes.

The main problem is the second point, it just redirects stuff to Gravatar,
so not much point (and quite shady imho)

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 at 15:50, Matthias Klumpp  wrote:

> Am Do., 20. Sep. 2018 um 15:48 Uhr schrieb Carlos Soriano <
> csori...@gnome.org>:
> >
> > And... we are reverting the change.
> >
> > The service is shutting down and actually any call to their servers is
> redirecting to Gravatar, which is quite shady
> >
> > If someone wants to help with that and contact libravatar developers
> feel free to do so.
>
> The service actually isn't shutting down, see the very first and bold
> message on the blogpost ;-)
>
> https://blog.libravatar.org/posts/Libravatar.org_is_not_going_away/
>
> > On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 at 15:33, Carlos Soriano  wrote:
> >>
> >> Done, enjoy!
> >>
> >> On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 at 10:03, Carlos Soriano  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> There has been indeed many things I didn't realize back then!
> >>>
> >>> This has got an overwhelming positive outcome, so seems replacing
> Gravatar by libravatar is the way forward. We will replace it in two weeks
> if no blocker appears.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks all!
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, 4 Sep 2018 at 18:00, Tobias Mueller 
> wrote:
> 
>  Hi,
> 
>  On Tue, 2018-09-04 at 11:24 -0400, Nicolas Dufresne wrote:
>  > I'm surely not
>  > the only one that isn't going that extreme in keeping control over
>  > couple of my pictures flying around and won't go that far.
>  This is much less about you than it is about other people visiting our
>  Web site.  AFAIU, we trick those people into telling a third party
> (i.e.
>  Gravatar) that they are visiting our Web site.  While people can patch
>  their browsers to disable such behaviour, we might feel better when
> not
>  doing that by default. Because.. you know.. we claim to value their
>  privacy.
> 
>  Someone was going wild about the GPDR and claimed that GNOME would be
>  affected. If that's the case then we better not make ship code to our
>  visitors that exposes them to third parties.
> 
>  Cheers,
>    Tobi
>  ___
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> >
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>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [GitLab] Gravatar vs libravatar

[Matthias Klumpp]

Am Do., 20. Sep. 2018 um 15:48 Uhr schrieb Carlos Soriano :
>
> And... we are reverting the change.
>
> The service is shutting down and actually any call to their servers is 
> redirecting to Gravatar, which is quite shady
>
> If someone wants to help with that and contact libravatar developers feel 
> free to do so.

The service actually isn't shutting down, see the very first and bold
message on the blogpost ;-)

https://blog.libravatar.org/posts/Libravatar.org_is_not_going_away/

> On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 at 15:33, Carlos Soriano  wrote:
>>
>> Done, enjoy!
>>
>> On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 at 10:03, Carlos Soriano  wrote:
>>>
>>> There has been indeed many things I didn't realize back then!
>>>
>>> This has got an overwhelming positive outcome, so seems replacing Gravatar 
>>> by libravatar is the way forward. We will replace it in two weeks if no 
>>> blocker appears.
>>>
>>> Thanks all!
>>>
>>> On Tue, 4 Sep 2018 at 18:00, Tobias Mueller  wrote:

 Hi,

 On Tue, 2018-09-04 at 11:24 -0400, Nicolas Dufresne wrote:
 > I'm surely not
 > the only one that isn't going that extreme in keeping control over
 > couple of my pictures flying around and won't go that far.
 This is much less about you than it is about other people visiting our
 Web site.  AFAIU, we trick those people into telling a third party (i.e.
 Gravatar) that they are visiting our Web site.  While people can patch
 their browsers to disable such behaviour, we might feel better when not
 doing that by default. Because.. you know.. we claim to value their
 privacy.

 Someone was going wild about the GPDR and claimed that GNOME would be
 affected. If that's the case then we better not make ship code to our
 visitors that exposes them to third parties.

 Cheers,
   Tobi
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Re: [GitLab] Gravatar vs libravatar

[Carlos Soriano]

And... we are reverting the change.

The service is shutting down

and
actually any call to their servers is redirecting to Gravatar, which is
quite shady

If someone wants to help with that and contact libravatar developers feel
free to do so.

Cheers

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 at 15:33, Carlos Soriano  wrote:

> Done, enjoy!
>
> On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 at 10:03, Carlos Soriano  wrote:
>
>> There has been indeed many things I didn't realize back then!
>>
>> This has got an overwhelming positive outcome, so seems replacing
>> Gravatar by libravatar is the way forward. We will replace it in two weeks
>> if no blocker appears.
>>
>> Thanks all!
>>
>> On Tue, 4 Sep 2018 at 18:00, Tobias Mueller  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Tue, 2018-09-04 at 11:24 -0400, Nicolas Dufresne wrote:
>>> > I'm surely not
>>> > the only one that isn't going that extreme in keeping control over
>>> > couple of my pictures flying around and won't go that far.
>>> This is much less about you than it is about other people visiting our
>>> Web site.  AFAIU, we trick those people into telling a third party (i.e.
>>> Gravatar) that they are visiting our Web site.  While people can patch
>>> their browsers to disable such behaviour, we might feel better when not
>>> doing that by default. Because.. you know.. we claim to value their
>>> privacy.
>>>
>>> Someone was going wild about the GPDR and claimed that GNOME would be
>>> affected. If that's the case then we better not make ship code to our
>>> visitors that exposes them to third parties.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>   Tobi
>>> ___
>>> desktop-devel-list mailing list
>>> desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
>>>
>>
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Re: [GitLab] Gravatar vs libravatar

[Carlos Soriano]

Done, enjoy!

On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 at 10:03, Carlos Soriano  wrote:

> There has been indeed many things I didn't realize back then!
>
> This has got an overwhelming positive outcome, so seems replacing Gravatar
> by libravatar is the way forward. We will replace it in two weeks if no
> blocker appears.
>
> Thanks all!
>
> On Tue, 4 Sep 2018 at 18:00, Tobias Mueller  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Tue, 2018-09-04 at 11:24 -0400, Nicolas Dufresne wrote:
>> > I'm surely not
>> > the only one that isn't going that extreme in keeping control over
>> > couple of my pictures flying around and won't go that far.
>> This is much less about you than it is about other people visiting our
>> Web site.  AFAIU, we trick those people into telling a third party (i.e.
>> Gravatar) that they are visiting our Web site.  While people can patch
>> their browsers to disable such behaviour, we might feel better when not
>> doing that by default. Because.. you know.. we claim to value their
>> privacy.
>>
>> Someone was going wild about the GPDR and claimed that GNOME would be
>> affected. If that's the case then we better not make ship code to our
>> visitors that exposes them to third parties.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>   Tobi
>> ___
>> desktop-devel-list mailing list
>> desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
>>
>
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Re: [GitLab] Gravatar vs libravatar

[Carlos Soriano]

There has been indeed many things I didn't realize back then!

This has got an overwhelming positive outcome, so seems replacing Gravatar
by libravatar is the way forward. We will replace it in two weeks if no
blocker appears.

Thanks all!

On Tue, 4 Sep 2018 at 18:00, Tobias Mueller  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Tue, 2018-09-04 at 11:24 -0400, Nicolas Dufresne wrote:
> > I'm surely not
> > the only one that isn't going that extreme in keeping control over
> > couple of my pictures flying around and won't go that far.
> This is much less about you than it is about other people visiting our
> Web site.  AFAIU, we trick those people into telling a third party (i.e.
> Gravatar) that they are visiting our Web site.  While people can patch
> their browsers to disable such behaviour, we might feel better when not
> doing that by default. Because.. you know.. we claim to value their
> privacy.
>
> Someone was going wild about the GPDR and claimed that GNOME would be
> affected. If that's the case then we better not make ship code to our
> visitors that exposes them to third parties.
>
> Cheers,
>   Tobi
> ___
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>
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Re: [GitLab] Gravatar vs libravatar

[Tobias Mueller]

Hi,

On Tue, 2018-09-04 at 11:24 -0400, Nicolas Dufresne wrote:
> I'm surely not
> the only one that isn't going that extreme in keeping control over
> couple of my pictures flying around and won't go that far.
This is much less about you than it is about other people visiting our
Web site.  AFAIU, we trick those people into telling a third party (i.e.
Gravatar) that they are visiting our Web site.  While people can patch
their browsers to disable such behaviour, we might feel better when not
doing that by default. Because.. you know.. we claim to value their
privacy.

Someone was going wild about the GPDR and claimed that GNOME would be
affected. If that's the case then we better not make ship code to our
visitors that exposes them to third parties.

Cheers,
  Tobi
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Re: [GitLab] Gravatar vs libravatar

[mcatanzaro]

On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 10:24 AM, Nicolas Dufresne 
 wrote:

So it's a gain in privacy if you want to host your own. I'm surely not
the only one that isn't going that extreme in keeping control over
couple of my pictures flying around and won't go that far.


The gain in privacy comes from disabling gravitar integration, not 
hosting your own avatar service.



That being said, for people my me, where to I upload yet another
picture ? Any free hosted services ?


Just use libravatar.org. The website design is not the greatest, but if 
you look above the orange Contribute! button there is a "Create a free 
account" link... click that, confirm your email, upload your avatar, 
done. It's just the free software replacement for Gravatar, really that 
simple. I assume you trust libravatar.org not to sell our IP addresses, 
avatar lookup history, email contact graphs, etc. to advertising 
companies.


Or just manually upload your avatar to gitlab.gnome.org. The only 
reason I bothered with libravatar.org was that it was required to set 
an avatar on Fedora infrastructure. I don't really care whether we 
enable libravatar or not, just that we disable Gravatar.


Michael

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Re: [GitLab] Gravatar vs libravatar

[Jan Claeys]

On Mon, 2018-09-03 at 20:23 +0200, Carlos Soriano wrote:
> Forgot to mention: The obvious upside of Gravatar is that seems to be
> used by lot of people, and those are probably okay with using it.

It's also blocked by a lot of people & tools, because it's essentially
a tracker that follows you around the web...


One problem with Libravatar is that it doesn't seem to have a privacy
statement on its public service (needed for GDPR compliance & such).
Unless you were planning to run a GNOME-specific instance?


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Re: [GitLab] Gravatar vs libravatar

[Germán Poo-Caamaño]

On Tue, 2018-09-04 at 11:24 -0400, Nicolas Dufresne wrote:
> Le lundi 03 septembre 2018 à 21:16 +0200, Alexandre Franke a écrit :
> > On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 8:13 PM Carlos Soriano 
> > wrote:
> > > Hello all,
> > > 
> > 
> > Hi,
> >  
> > > If you have any other comment, feel free to provide it here or in
> > > the issue.
> > > 
> > 
> > For those who may not know it yet, libravatar is decentralized and
> > federated alternative to gravatar. It has a few free software
> > implementations (including the one used on the main public
> > instance)
> > and one can host their own instance or use a public one. We should
> > encourage the use of such services rather than centralized ones
> > based
> > on non free software.
> > 
> > It’s worth noting that Damned lies already supports libravatar.
> 
> So it's a gain in privacy if you want to host your own. I'm surely
> not
> the only one that isn't going that extreme in keeping control over
> couple of my pictures flying around and won't go that far.
> 
> That being said, for people my me, where to I upload yet another
> picture ? Any free hosted services ?

You do not need to use any of those services.  You can upload it
directly in GNOME's instance of GitLab.

I did that with mine [1]... and I think I look handsome ;-)

[1] https://gitlab.gnome.org/gpoo

-- 
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http://calcifer.org/

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Re: [GitLab] Gravatar vs libravatar

[Nicolas Dufresne]

Le lundi 03 septembre 2018 à 21:16 +0200, Alexandre Franke a écrit :
> On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 8:13 PM Carlos Soriano 
> wrote:
> > Hello all,
> > 
> 
> Hi,
>  
> > If you have any other comment, feel free to provide it here or in
> > the issue.
> > 
> 
> For those who may not know it yet, libravatar is decentralized and
> federated alternative to gravatar. It has a few free software
> implementations (including the one used on the main public instance)
> and one can host their own instance or use a public one. We should
> encourage the use of such services rather than centralized ones based
> on non free software.
> 
> It’s worth noting that Damned lies already supports libravatar.

So it's a gain in privacy if you want to host your own. I'm surely not
the only one that isn't going that extreme in keeping control over
couple of my pictures flying around and won't go that far.

That being said, for people my me, where to I upload yet another
picture ? Any free hosted services ?

> 
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Re: [GitLab] Gravatar vs libravatar

[Alexandre Franke]

On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 8:13 PM Carlos Soriano  wrote:

> Hello all,
>

Hi,


> If you have any other comment, feel free to provide it here or in the
> issue.
>

For those who may not know it yet, libravatar is decentralized and
federated alternative to gravatar. It has a few free software
implementations (including the one used on the main public instance) and
one can host their own instance or use a public one. We should encourage
the use of such services rather than centralized ones based on non free
software.

It’s worth noting that Damned lies already supports libravatar.

-- 
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GNOME Hacker
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Re: [GitLab] Gravatar vs libravatar

[Carlos Soriano]

Forgot to mention: The obvious upside of Gravatar is that seems to be used
by lot of people, and those are probably okay with using it. Having faces
in GitLab is nice so people see something more than just nicknames, it
feels more human and welcoming.

On the other hand, if changing to libravatar is well supported by us and we
start using it it looks like an easy win-win for privacy-aware tools and
people.

On Mon, 3 Sep 2018 at 20:13, Carlos Soriano  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> There is a request to replace Gravatar  by
> libravatar  on our GitLab instance. Both are
> supported in GitLab.
>
> The reasoning to replace it is that Gravatar seems to have privacy issues
> . So I would like to know if we should replace
> it with libravatar or keep using Gravatar.
>
> If you agree, please upvote on the issue
> , if not,
> downvote. Apologies for the poll, not sure a better way to do it for this
> since both options look quite balanced to me.
>
> If you have any other comment, feel free to provide it here or in the
> issue.
>
> Have a good day everyone!
>
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