Re: Dists and Core blocks selection [Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-18 Thread David Crossley
Jorg Heymans wrote: Ross Gardler wrote: -1 over at Forrest one of our devs is experimenting with the Ajax block. We have a demo in our forthcoming Dispatcher (aka views). Moving Ajax into the CForms block would prevent us from using it since we don't want to bundle CForms for fear of

Re: Dists and Core blocks selection [Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-14 Thread Jorg Heymans
Antonio Gallardo wrote: Also, please don't forget the ajax block. It is needed by forms. ;-) Is ajax really a block on it's own ? I mean i know it can be plugged into cforms to make forms ajax aware, but is it useable by other blocks as well ? I'm not really uptodate with this stuff, just

Re: Dists and Core blocks selection [Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-14 Thread Ross Gardler
Jorg Heymans wrote: Antonio Gallardo wrote: Also, please don't forget the ajax block. It is needed by forms. ;-) Is ajax really a block on it's own ? I mean i know it can be plugged into cforms to make forms ajax aware, but is it useable by other blocks as well ? I'm not really uptodate

Re: Dists and Core blocks selection [Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-14 Thread Jorg Heymans
Ross Gardler wrote: -1 over at Forrest one of our devs is experimenting with the Ajax block. We have a demo in our forthcoming Dispatcher (aka views). Moving Ajax into the CForms block would prevent us from using it since we don't want to bundle CForms for fear of confusing the boundaries

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Jorg Heymans
Carsten Ziegeler wrote: I strongly suggest that we start creating roadmaps. This also would make the development of Cocoon for users much more transparent. Currently I have only two points which I really think have to be finished for 2.2: the build/deployment stuff and making the current

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Upayavira
Jorg Heymans wrote: Carsten Ziegeler wrote: I strongly suggest that we start creating roadmaps. This also would make the development of Cocoon for users much more transparent. Currently I have only two points which I really think have to be finished for 2.2: the build/deployment stuff

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Torsten Curdt
While I agree that it is OK to break compatibility to some degree between 2.1 and 2.2, I think this is more of a change than I'd really like to see between 2.1 and 2.2 as it will require modifications to every Cocoon application. Either we allow such required modifications or we need to

Dists and Core blocks selection [Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Upayavira
Jorg Heymans wrote: snip/ Also: are we carrying forward all blocks to 2.2 or is this the time where we ditch the obscure, rarely used and blocks that don't really deserve to be a block blocks? I'ld say we choose the 10 most often used and well known blocks and let the users voice their

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Jorg Heymans
Upayavira wrote: For me, the absolute most important thing is getting the build working again with the excalibur stuff. I'm here at ApacheCon with Maven chaps around, and the easier it is for me to 'grok' the current Maven setup, the more likely I am to be able to understand and explore

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Carsten Ziegeler
Daniel Fagerstrom wrote: More seriously, it was an RT, I wanted to hear what people think and if there was any problems that I hadn't thought about. I will of course cast a vote before commiting anything. We could possibly provide some optional back compability mode that puts the

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Reinhard Poetz
--- Carsten Ziegeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Daniel Fagerstrom wrote: More seriously, it was an RT, I wanted to hear what people think and if there was any problems that I hadn't thought about. I will of course cast a vote before commiting anything. We could possibly provide

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Ralph Goers
Torsten Curdt wrote: While I agree that it is OK to break compatibility to some degree between 2.1 and 2.2, I think this is more of a change than I'd really like to see between 2.1 and 2.2 as it will require modifications to every Cocoon application. Either we allow such required

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Daniel Fagerstrom
Jorg Heymans skrev: Carsten Ziegeler wrote: I strongly suggest that we start creating roadmaps. This also would make the development of Cocoon for users much more transparent. Currently I have only two points which I really think have to be finished for 2.2: the build/deployment stuff and

Re: Dists and Core blocks selection [Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Daniel Fagerstrom
Upayavira skrev: Jorg Heymans wrote: snip/ Also: are we carrying forward all blocks to 2.2 or is this the time where we ditch the obscure, rarely used and blocks that don't really deserve to be a block blocks? I'ld say we choose the 10 most often used and well known blocks and let the users

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Daniel Fagerstrom
Reinhard Poetz skrev: --- Carsten Ziegeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Daniel Fagerstrom wrote: More seriously, it was an RT, I wanted to hear what people think and if there was any problems that I hadn't thought about. I will of course cast a vote before commiting anything. We

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Niclas Hedhman
On Wednesday 14 December 2005 01:26, Carsten Ziegeler wrote: For the versioning, we could for example release a 2.2 soon, change the environment abstract after that and then release a 2.3 later this year. Two more releases this year, YEAH!!! That's a remarkable spirit ;o) Just kidding... I

Re: Dists and Core blocks selection [Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Antonio Gallardo
Daniel Fagerstrom wrote: Upayavira skrev: I would also ask whether we should consider replacing the serializers in core with those in the serializer block. Better move the current core serializers to an own block. IMO we should have a core that only contains the minimal infrastructure and

Re: Dists and Core blocks selection [Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Antonio Gallardo
Upayavira wrote: Jorg Heymans wrote: snip/ Also: are we carrying forward all blocks to 2.2 or is this the time where we ditch the obscure, rarely used and blocks that don't really deserve to be a block blocks? I'ld say we choose the 10 most often used and well known blocks and let the

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Carsten Ziegeler
Niclas Hedhman schrieb: On Wednesday 14 December 2005 01:26, Carsten Ziegeler wrote: For the versioning, we could for example release a 2.2 soon, change the environment abstract after that and then release a 2.3 later this year. Two more releases this year, YEAH!!! That's a remarkable

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Vadim Gritsenko
Niclas Hedhman wrote: On Wednesday 14 December 2005 01:26, Carsten Ziegeler wrote: For the versioning, we could for example release a 2.2 soon, change the environment abstract after that and then release a 2.3 later this year. Two more releases this year, YEAH!!! That's a remarkable spirit

Re: Dists and Core blocks selection [Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Vadim Gritsenko
Upayavira wrote: I would also ask whether we should consider replacing the serializers in core with those in the serializer block. Why would you replace single class which works in 99% of cases with 4Mb of code? Vadim

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-13 Thread Berin Loritsch
Vadim Gritsenko wrote: Niclas Hedhman wrote: On Wednesday 14 December 2005 01:26, Carsten Ziegeler wrote: For the versioning, we could for example release a 2.2 soon, change the environment abstract after that and then release a 2.3 later this year. Two more releases this year, YEAH!!!

Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-12 Thread Carsten Ziegeler
Daniel Fagerstrom wrote: And for me the most important question :) What is the suggested timeframe/version for this? Do you want to do this for 2.2? It depends on the timeframe for 2.2 ;) I will be offline for the next two weeks (kitesurfing in Mexico :) ) after that I would like to ditch the

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-12 Thread Ralph Goers
Carsten Ziegeler wrote: I strongly suggest that we start creating roadmaps. This also would make the development of Cocoon for users much more transparent. Currently I have only two points which I really think have to be finished for 2.2: the build/deployment stuff and making the current

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-12 Thread Daniel Fagerstrom
I agree that the main focus must be to get a 2.2 release. So the question is what to do with the real blocks. They are currently rather close to the specification, but we don't know if the specification is good enough without getting experience from the blocks. For ditching the environment

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-12 Thread Gianugo Rabellino
On 12/13/05, Daniel Fagerstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that the main focus must be to get a 2.2 release. So the question is what to do with the real blocks. They are currently rather close to the specification, but we don't know if the specification is good enough without getting

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-12 Thread Berin Loritsch
Gianugo Rabellino wrote: On 12/13/05, Daniel Fagerstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that the main focus must be to get a 2.2 release. So the question is what to do with the real blocks. They are currently rather close to the specification, but we don't know if the specification is good

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-12 Thread Daniel Fagerstrom
Gianugo Rabellino skrev: On 12/13/05, Daniel Fagerstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that the main focus must be to get a 2.2 release. So the question is what to do with the real blocks. They are currently rather close to the specification, but we don't know if the specification is good

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-12 Thread Daniel Fagerstrom
Berin Loritsch skrev: Gianugo Rabellino wrote: On 12/13/05, Daniel Fagerstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that the main focus must be to get a 2.2 release. So the question is what to do with the real blocks. They are currently rather close to the specification, but we don't know if

Re: Roadmap for 2.2 [was Re: [RT] Ditching the environment abstraction]

2005-12-12 Thread Ralph Goers
Gianugo Rabellino wrote: I tend to disagree. The environment abstraction is to me part of the underlying public contracts users rely upon: changing contracts between minor versions is borderline but acceptable given the cost/benefit ratio, but it's out of question between revision. Having 2.2