Re: A maturity model for Apache projects
On 7 Jan 2015, at 08:55, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Mike Drob md...@mdrob.com wrote: ...I understand the value of measuring maturity after a project has left the Incubator, but I also don't know that we want to put an additional set of checkboxes on projects. Either you're ready to graduate, or you're not Agreed, and this model can be a good way to measure that readyness. My idea is also to help projects who are created elsewhere and might want to move to Apache later - having them conform to (parts of) the model will help. Thats a good angle to consider - in these cases the incoming project is mature in at least some sense, but we need to understand the areas where we needs to focus on. It would be worthwhile articulating all these requirements for having the model - what we would use it for, how and why. -Bertrand
Re: A maturity model for Apache projects
On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 9:45 PM, Nicolas Lalevée nicolas.lale...@hibnet.org wrote: ...I would add something about the build of the sources. Because having sources without having a repeatable build or having no clue about how to build it, it makes the sources quite useless That might something for a footnote, agreed - as I said I want the core model to be as small as possible, but such additions are nice. -Bertrand
Re: A maturity model for Apache projects
On 06/01/2015 Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: With regard to competitors, I just remind myself that forking is a feature and that community before code means not acting like a competitor. One should not accept the so-called competitor's terms of debate, no matter how much individuals might see and even prefer competition. I'll just note that Forking is a feature is totally unrelated to what I wrote. If Microsoft starts a campaign to advocate IIS over the Apache HTTP Server, that PMC will have to follow your route and not accept the terms of debate or it will have to give an answer, and part of it may have to be discussed confidentially (even the Foundation Press Releases are not discussed in public before they are issued; in the real world... this happens). The discussion that followed seems to clearly show that this stays undecided. So, coming back to the maturity model, I think that we can recommend a wise usage of the private list, but not necessarily restrict it to votes and security. Trademark violations for example surely belong there, and more can belong there depending on the project and on its public image. A note to reassure those who oppose it: I've never seen marketing strategy discussions on the private lists I'm subscribed to. I'm definitely not a marketing-oriented person, but I don't see marketing as inherently evil either. Regards, Andrea.
Re: A maturity model for Apache projects
Sent from a miserable mobile device On 07/gen/2015, at 09:26, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 06/01/2015 Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: With regard to competitors, I just remind myself that forking is a feature and that community before code means not acting like a competitor. One should not accept the so-called competitor's terms of debate, no matter how much individuals might see and even prefer competition. I'll just note that Forking is a feature is totally unrelated to what I wrote. If Microsoft starts a campaign to advocate IIS over the Apache HTTP Server, that PMC will have to follow your route and not accept the terms of debate or it will have to give an answer, and part of it may have to be discussed confidentially (even the Foundation Press Releases are not discussed in public before they are issued; in the real world... this happens). Exactly. We do all know very well Apache PR are discussed privately, not differently we (AOO) do discuss how to address jpirnalists' questions privately, so that we do not look naive by debating all details on a public ML, getting ridicolous and giving journalists a chance to point to this or that opinion expressed in those threads. The discussion that followed seems to clearly show that this stays undecided. So, coming back to the maturity model, I think that we can recommend a wise usage of the private list, but not necessarily restrict it to votes and security. Trademark violations for example surely belong there, and more can belong there depending on the project and on its public image. A note to reassure those who oppose it: I've never seen marketing strategy discussions on the private lists I'm subscribed to. I'm definitely not a marketing-oriented person, but I don't see marketing as inherently evil either. I always thought Apache was about the code, how discussing some marketing stuff within the PMC could be seen as a closed-source practice goes beyond my comprension. Roberto Regards, Andrea.
Re: ApacheCon Austin keynotes (and other stuff)
Well, now that you say so, there is that guy called Rich Bowen. You know, most developers ain't that rich and this guy ostensibly says he's Rich... This may hurt financial feelings. Another option is to call the guy Poor Bowen, so everyone feels ok? Just a suggestion. On 2015-01-06 22:48, Rich Bowen wrote: By the way, if anyone has any reason at all that one of the proposed keynoters is going to be an embarrassment, *PLEASE* speak up sooner rather than later, and don't be worried about hurting feelings. Canceling a keynote at the last minute is a HUGE embarrassment, not to mention cost, and if you know something I don't, tell me now before I buy someone plane tickets. No, I won't be asking any politicians. Ever again. --Rich -- VK private signature Vincent Keunen How to contact me http://vincent.keunen.net/contact-me/ vinc...@keunen.net mailto:vinc...@keunen.net about.me http://about.me/vincent.keunen My new project: Andaman7 http://bit.ly/a7vkblogen
Re: WELCOME to dev@community.apache.org
thanks daniel... here at bigtop we are 100% git based. so having an svn account , just to push changes to a site, seems to slow us down alot. is SVN required ? or is there another way? right now we have a system that uses maven, followed by svn and then we have to approve the changes in the web ui. would rather just push static html pages to our git repo , the way we push everything else. are all apache projects using SVN or do some folks have an easier workflow ? On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 3:12 PM, Daniel Gruno humbed...@apache.org wrote: Essentially, github uses the same method as we do with svnpubsub. Files are pushed to a repository and then from there pushed directly to the web site. Is there anything specific about the github model that you think differ from how we do things? Apart from it being git and not subversion, obviously. With regards, Daniel. On 2015-01-07 21:06, jay vyas wrote: Hi apache ! Whats the simplest way to maintain the xyz.apache.org site? Right now we push to SVN, but would be great to use something like the github.io model, where the static pages are just hosted directly. On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 2:56 PM, dev-h...@community.apache.org wrote: Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the dev@community.apache.org mailing list. I'm working for my owner, who can be reached at dev-ow...@community.apache.org. Acknowledgment: I have added the address jayunit100.apa...@gmail.com to the dev mailing list. Welcome to dev@community.apache.org! Please save this message so that you know the address you are subscribed under, in case you later want to unsubscribe or change your subscription address. --- Administrative commands for the dev list --- I can handle administrative requests automatically. Please do not send them to the list address! Instead, send your message to the correct command address: To subscribe to the list, send a message to: dev-subscr...@community.apache.org To remove your address from the list, send a message to: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org Send mail to the following for info and FAQ for this list: dev-i...@community.apache.org dev-...@community.apache.org Similar addresses exist for the digest list: dev-digest-subscr...@community.apache.org dev-digest-unsubscr...@community.apache.org To get messages 123 through 145 (a maximum of 100 per request), mail: dev-get.123_...@community.apache.org To get an index with subject and author for messages 123-456 , mail: dev-index.123_...@community.apache.org They are always returned as sets of 100, max 2000 per request, so you'll actually get 100-499. To receive all messages with the same subject as message 12345, send a short message to: dev-thread.12...@community.apache.org The messages should contain one line or word of text to avoid being treated as sp@m, but I will ignore their content. Only the ADDRESS you send to is important. You can start a subscription for an alternate address, for example john@host.domain, just add a hyphen and your address (with '=' instead of '@') after the command word: dev-subscribe-john=host.dom...@community.apache.org To stop subscription for this address, mail: dev-unsubscribe-john=host.dom...@community.apache.org In both cases, I'll send a confirmation message to that address. When you receive it, simply reply to it to complete your subscription. If despite following these instructions, you do not get the desired results, please contact my owner at dev-ow...@community.apache.org. Please be patient, my owner is a lot slower than I am ;-) --- Enclosed is a copy of the request I received. Return-Path: jayunit100.apa...@gmail.com Received: (qmail 14748 invoked by uid 99); 7 Jan 2015 19:56:45 - Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 07 Jan 2015 19:56:45 + X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of jayunit100.apa...@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.171 as permitted sender) Received: from [74.125.82.171] (HELO mail-we0-f171.google.com) (74.125.82.171) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 07 Jan 2015 19:56:39 + Received: by mail-we0-f171.google.com with SMTP id u56so1794125wes.30 for dev-sc.1420660420.dnaojabgibffbmnboifj-jayunit100.apache= gmail@community.apache.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2015 11:56:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=4OB4KLyw2fmFpQl3M1XmOX18z5O8zy+yvZghLrCCQH0=; b=XSc/5mc3l7ZxTLvKQwhwblcJ9JBklYotsWNQjg2deDzdYhR4p1icsaTjQrklu+hpk2
Re: WELCOME to dev@community.apache.org
Hi apache ! Whats the simplest way to maintain the xyz.apache.org site? Right now we push to SVN, but would be great to use something like the github.io model, where the static pages are just hosted directly. On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 2:56 PM, dev-h...@community.apache.org wrote: Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the dev@community.apache.org mailing list. I'm working for my owner, who can be reached at dev-ow...@community.apache.org. Acknowledgment: I have added the address jayunit100.apa...@gmail.com to the dev mailing list. Welcome to dev@community.apache.org! Please save this message so that you know the address you are subscribed under, in case you later want to unsubscribe or change your subscription address. --- Administrative commands for the dev list --- I can handle administrative requests automatically. Please do not send them to the list address! Instead, send your message to the correct command address: To subscribe to the list, send a message to: dev-subscr...@community.apache.org To remove your address from the list, send a message to: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org Send mail to the following for info and FAQ for this list: dev-i...@community.apache.org dev-...@community.apache.org Similar addresses exist for the digest list: dev-digest-subscr...@community.apache.org dev-digest-unsubscr...@community.apache.org To get messages 123 through 145 (a maximum of 100 per request), mail: dev-get.123_...@community.apache.org To get an index with subject and author for messages 123-456 , mail: dev-index.123_...@community.apache.org They are always returned as sets of 100, max 2000 per request, so you'll actually get 100-499. To receive all messages with the same subject as message 12345, send a short message to: dev-thread.12...@community.apache.org The messages should contain one line or word of text to avoid being treated as sp@m, but I will ignore their content. Only the ADDRESS you send to is important. You can start a subscription for an alternate address, for example john@host.domain, just add a hyphen and your address (with '=' instead of '@') after the command word: dev-subscribe-john=host.dom...@community.apache.org To stop subscription for this address, mail: dev-unsubscribe-john=host.dom...@community.apache.org In both cases, I'll send a confirmation message to that address. When you receive it, simply reply to it to complete your subscription. If despite following these instructions, you do not get the desired results, please contact my owner at dev-ow...@community.apache.org. Please be patient, my owner is a lot slower than I am ;-) --- Enclosed is a copy of the request I received. Return-Path: jayunit100.apa...@gmail.com Received: (qmail 14748 invoked by uid 99); 7 Jan 2015 19:56:45 - Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 07 Jan 2015 19:56:45 + X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of jayunit100.apa...@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.171 as permitted sender) Received: from [74.125.82.171] (HELO mail-we0-f171.google.com) (74.125.82.171) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 07 Jan 2015 19:56:39 + Received: by mail-we0-f171.google.com with SMTP id u56so1794125wes.30 for dev-sc.1420660420.dnaojabgibffbmnboifj-jayunit100.apache= gmail@community.apache.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2015 11:56:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=4OB4KLyw2fmFpQl3M1XmOX18z5O8zy+yvZghLrCCQH0=; b=XSc/5mc3l7ZxTLvKQwhwblcJ9JBklYotsWNQjg2deDzdYhR4p1icsaTjQrklu+hpk2 W0Y80Uk/PcDTvjO5JSDU0IxtUsSrjV5QK6KU2H9w7H39EytqRv/lFn7QL1Yw4UYib6zo 0hNaCgxt84skf1IQm7yRWP5pxIaQuDyI1r2W8WL5Bt6d34ps80thba1ILoPz/b1htNVT huI4b35Fqf2Q8mf2rKWYL1ppgyelNXheWOwWfqerEILddc3En+r2PKqzTY6Jh5R8aoVn BwI0pN6WhAjm59qb7WZ0vb4Aorj3G2pMIOSn4R75jTvmFRY3DlSd8q582L+JFWGC5tWd KASw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.88.131 with SMTP id bg3mr9420545wjb.99.1420660578606; Wed, 07 Jan 2015 11:56:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.27.144.214 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 11:56:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: 1420660420.2944.ez...@community.apache.org References: 1420660420.2944.ez...@community.apache.org Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 14:56:18 -0500 Message-ID: CACVCA=fV3HDyzkHn= tehwkosmky2vxtyicacstnhq4n+eer...@mail.gmail.com Subject: Re: confirm subscribe to dev@community.apache.org From: jay vyas jayunit100.apa...@gmail.com To: dev-sc.1420660420.dnaojabgibffbmnboifj-jayunit100.apache= gmail@community.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Re: WELCOME to dev@community.apache.org
Essentially, github uses the same method as we do with svnpubsub. Files are pushed to a repository and then from there pushed directly to the web site. Is there anything specific about the github model that you think differ from how we do things? Apart from it being git and not subversion, obviously. With regards, Daniel. On 2015-01-07 21:06, jay vyas wrote: Hi apache ! Whats the simplest way to maintain the xyz.apache.org site? Right now we push to SVN, but would be great to use something like the github.io model, where the static pages are just hosted directly. On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 2:56 PM, dev-h...@community.apache.org wrote: Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the dev@community.apache.org mailing list. I'm working for my owner, who can be reached at dev-ow...@community.apache.org. Acknowledgment: I have added the address jayunit100.apa...@gmail.com to the dev mailing list. Welcome to dev@community.apache.org! Please save this message so that you know the address you are subscribed under, in case you later want to unsubscribe or change your subscription address. --- Administrative commands for the dev list --- I can handle administrative requests automatically. Please do not send them to the list address! Instead, send your message to the correct command address: To subscribe to the list, send a message to: dev-subscr...@community.apache.org To remove your address from the list, send a message to: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org Send mail to the following for info and FAQ for this list: dev-i...@community.apache.org dev-...@community.apache.org Similar addresses exist for the digest list: dev-digest-subscr...@community.apache.org dev-digest-unsubscr...@community.apache.org To get messages 123 through 145 (a maximum of 100 per request), mail: dev-get.123_...@community.apache.org To get an index with subject and author for messages 123-456 , mail: dev-index.123_...@community.apache.org They are always returned as sets of 100, max 2000 per request, so you'll actually get 100-499. To receive all messages with the same subject as message 12345, send a short message to: dev-thread.12...@community.apache.org The messages should contain one line or word of text to avoid being treated as sp@m, but I will ignore their content. Only the ADDRESS you send to is important. You can start a subscription for an alternate address, for example john@host.domain, just add a hyphen and your address (with '=' instead of '@') after the command word: dev-subscribe-john=host.dom...@community.apache.org To stop subscription for this address, mail: dev-unsubscribe-john=host.dom...@community.apache.org In both cases, I'll send a confirmation message to that address. When you receive it, simply reply to it to complete your subscription. If despite following these instructions, you do not get the desired results, please contact my owner at dev-ow...@community.apache.org. Please be patient, my owner is a lot slower than I am ;-) --- Enclosed is a copy of the request I received. Return-Path: jayunit100.apa...@gmail.com Received: (qmail 14748 invoked by uid 99); 7 Jan 2015 19:56:45 - Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 07 Jan 2015 19:56:45 + X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of jayunit100.apa...@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.171 as permitted sender) Received: from [74.125.82.171] (HELO mail-we0-f171.google.com) (74.125.82.171) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 07 Jan 2015 19:56:39 + Received: by mail-we0-f171.google.com with SMTP id u56so1794125wes.30 for dev-sc.1420660420.dnaojabgibffbmnboifj-jayunit100.apache= gmail@community.apache.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2015 11:56:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=4OB4KLyw2fmFpQl3M1XmOX18z5O8zy+yvZghLrCCQH0=; b=XSc/5mc3l7ZxTLvKQwhwblcJ9JBklYotsWNQjg2deDzdYhR4p1icsaTjQrklu+hpk2 W0Y80Uk/PcDTvjO5JSDU0IxtUsSrjV5QK6KU2H9w7H39EytqRv/lFn7QL1Yw4UYib6zo 0hNaCgxt84skf1IQm7yRWP5pxIaQuDyI1r2W8WL5Bt6d34ps80thba1ILoPz/b1htNVT huI4b35Fqf2Q8mf2rKWYL1ppgyelNXheWOwWfqerEILddc3En+r2PKqzTY6Jh5R8aoVn BwI0pN6WhAjm59qb7WZ0vb4Aorj3G2pMIOSn4R75jTvmFRY3DlSd8q582L+JFWGC5tWd KASw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.88.131 with SMTP id bg3mr9420545wjb.99.1420660578606; Wed, 07 Jan 2015 11:56:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.27.144.214 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 11:56:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: 1420660420.2944.ez...@community.apache.org References: 1420660420.2944.ez...@community.apache.org Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 14:56:18 -0500 Message-ID: CACVCA=fV3HDyzkHn=
Re: Volunteering in schools
As for timing, it's now. But if you only have time to show up at the BOF and share your experience that will be appreciated. Ahh - My takeaway from the email was that the ask was for organizing a BoF. What is it that you need help with? --David
Re: Volunteering in schools
I might be interested in volunteering (though, I won't be in Austin). -- Christopher L Tubbs II http://gravatar.com/ctubbsii On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote: I know we have a bunch of people who already volunteer to teach in schools. I know that this has a great deal of impact at many levels. I'm looking for volunteers to help with a potential new initiative. In the run-up to ApacheCon Sally will be running a campaign around the 15th Anniversary of the foundation. It will look at the legacy of the ASF and to the future. It will focus on the ASF as being a place of innovation and excitement. I've recently had confirmation that a representative of TEALS, an organization that trains volunteers to teach in high schools in 20 states. These students take a rigorous college level CS class (UC Berkeley CS10 or UW CSE142/143 AP) in schools that might otherwise have no IT component at all. 40% of the schools are Title 1 schools (as a Brit I had to look this up, in short it's about improving academic achievements of the disadvantaged [1]) and a dozen or so are in very rural areas. Furthermore, 25% of their students are girls and 25% are from minority groups (in other words this has an impact on diversity). My ask of the ComDev PMC is for us to run a BOF at ApacheCon to figure out how we might enable ASF community members to assist with the work that TEALS (and similar) organizations do. I'm happy to help drive this, but ideally there will be a couple of volunteers here who are interested enough to take ownership. I'm working with Sally to find other valuable folks to participate and hope to have more than just TEALS represented. What I would like to do, in a perfect world, is announce a partnership at ApacheCon. Failing that I would like to develop the outline of a partnership at ApacheCon itself. So, please step forward if you are interested in volunteering (there's no need for you to be present in Austin, though that would be great). Ross [1] http://www2.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/pg1.html Microsoft Open Technologies, Inc. A subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation
Re: Volunteering in schools
On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 4:59 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote: Cool, thanks Chris. Keep an eye on this list. I'll keep you informed here (and may ping you privately if there is something specific I think you can help with). In the meantime, do you have any experience already? I've done some tutoring, but nothing like this. (Also, friendly note: I prefer Christopher :) ) I'll keep an eye on the list. Microsoft Open Technologies, Inc. A subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation -Original Message- From: Christopher [mailto:ctubb...@apache.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2015 1:22 PM To: dev@community.apache.org Subject: Re: Volunteering in schools I might be interested in volunteering (though, I won't be in Austin). -- Christopher L Tubbs II http://gravatar.com/ctubbsii On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote: I know we have a bunch of people who already volunteer to teach in schools. I know that this has a great deal of impact at many levels. I'm looking for volunteers to help with a potential new initiative. In the run-up to ApacheCon Sally will be running a campaign around the 15th Anniversary of the foundation. It will look at the legacy of the ASF and to the future. It will focus on the ASF as being a place of innovation and excitement. I've recently had confirmation that a representative of TEALS, an organization that trains volunteers to teach in high schools in 20 states. These students take a rigorous college level CS class (UC Berkeley CS10 or UW CSE142/143 AP) in schools that might otherwise have no IT component at all. 40% of the schools are Title 1 schools (as a Brit I had to look this up, in short it's about improving academic achievements of the disadvantaged [1]) and a dozen or so are in very rural areas. Furthermore, 25% of their students are girls and 25% are from minority groups (in other words this has an impact on diversity). My ask of the ComDev PMC is for us to run a BOF at ApacheCon to figure out how we might enable ASF community members to assist with the work that TEALS (and similar) organizations do. I'm happy to help drive this, but ideally there will be a couple of volunteers here who are interested enough to take ownership. I'm working with Sally to find other valuable folks to participate and hope to have more than just TEALS represented. What I would like to do, in a perfect world, is announce a partnership at ApacheCon. Failing that I would like to develop the outline of a partnership at ApacheCon itself. So, please step forward if you are interested in volunteering (there's no need for you to be present in Austin, though that would be great). Ross [1] http://www2.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/pg1.html Microsoft Open Technologies, Inc. A subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation
Re: A maturity model for Apache projects
On Wed, Jan 07, 2015 at 09:04:32AM +, Scott Wilson wrote: On 7 Jan 2015, at 08:55, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Mike Drob md...@mdrob.com wrote: ...I understand the value of measuring maturity after a project has left the Incubator, but I also don't know that we want to put an additional set of checkboxes on projects. Either you're ready to graduate, or you're not Agreed, and this model can be a good way to measure that readyness. My idea is also to help projects who are created elsewhere and might want to move to Apache later - having them conform to (parts of) the model will help. Thats a good angle to consider - in these cases the incoming project is mature in at least some sense, but we need to understand the areas where we needs to focus on. It would be worthwhile articulating all these requirements for having the model - what we would use it for, how and why. And either the incubator or the pTLP process (or both) could really use this as a way to define The Apache Way more than a gut feeling. ;-) -chip
