Re: Telling whether startup is really complete

2012-08-09 Thread Charles Moulliard
Hi, From my point of view, this is not because a bundle is started or even an OSGI service is registered (in the OSGI registry) that we could say that the Services deployed on the platform (Bundles, Camel routes, Web Services, Web modules, ) are operational. This is why for that reason I

Re: Telling whether startup is really complete

2012-08-09 Thread Guillaume Nodet
Remember extenders can start bundles asynchronously, so the ReadyService should be registered by the extender from an activator. I'd think aries quiesce api could be a good location for that as it could be included in blueprint. However, failures should be taken into account in the api, as a

Re: Telling whether startup is really complete

2012-08-09 Thread Jamie G.
Just my 2 cents CAD... I think that this effort may be leading to diminishing returns .. there are many edge cases we may hit here, and i don't want to see Karaf's console take minutes to become available. So here is my alternative suggestion: Allow Karaf console to come up as per start level as

Re: Telling whether startup is really complete

2012-08-09 Thread Achim Nierbeck
Hi, I have to second Jamie on this, cause right now I'm quite happy with having a shell right away so if I'm really in need for knowing if all bundles are up and runnig I'll do a la and I'm fine knowing how it's proceeding. For me there is no real need to hide the shell from users, cause let's

Re: Telling whether startup is really complete

2012-08-09 Thread Johan Edstrom
+2 pence. On Aug 9, 2012, at 5:26 AM, Achim Nierbeck wrote: Hi, I have to second Jamie on this, cause right now I'm quite happy with having a shell right away so if I'm really in need for knowing if all bundles are up and runnig I'll do a la and I'm fine knowing how it's proceeding. For

Re: Telling whether startup is really complete

2012-08-09 Thread Jean-Baptiste Onofré
Hi, I'm not fully agree. Karaf is a container, with the purpose to be fast, lightweight. So what does it mean Karaf started ? For instance, I gonna compare with JEE application server. When do you consider that an application server is started: - when the application server itself is up and

Re: Telling whether startup is really complete

2012-08-09 Thread Charles Moulliard
Well said JB. This is exactly what I have explained this morning. On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré j...@nanthrax.netwrote: Hi, I'm not fully agree. Karaf is a container, with the purpose to be fast, lightweight. So what does it mean Karaf started ? For instance, I

Re: Telling whether startup is really complete

2012-08-09 Thread Andreas Pieber
After reading the entire thread again I think we've got our wires crossed. The entire point is NOT (!) to make Karaf waiting for anything to start up per default; I second Christoph at this point: I think it's best if the default Karaf download works exactly as it does in the 2.2.x branch: getting

Re: Telling whether startup is really complete

2012-08-09 Thread Johan Edstrom
What about logging? Sorry :) On Aug 9, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Andreas Pieber wrote: After reading the entire thread again I think we've got our wires crossed. The entire point is NOT (!) to make Karaf waiting for anything to start up per default; I second Christoph at this point: I think it's

Re: Telling whether startup is really complete

2012-08-09 Thread Andreas Pieber
what do you mean? Kind regards, Andreas On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Johan Edstrom seij...@gmail.com wrote: What about logging? Sorry :) On Aug 9, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Andreas Pieber wrote: After reading the entire thread again I think we've got our wires crossed. The entire point is NOT

Re: Telling whether startup is really complete

2012-08-09 Thread Ioannis Canellos
I've read a lot of interesting opinions and I'd like to share mine: i) The Karaf shell should start asap, unless explicitly configured. The enter thing is nice but should be optional imho. ii) Determining when Karaf is started is one thing, determining when an application is started is another.

Re: Telling whether startup is really complete

2012-08-09 Thread Andreas Pieber
nicely summed up; +1 :-) Kind regards, Andreas On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Ioannis Canellos ioca...@gmail.com wrote: I've read a lot of interesting opinions and I'd like to share mine: i) The Karaf shell should start asap, unless explicitly configured. The enter thing is nice but should

Re: Telling whether startup is really complete

2012-08-09 Thread Christian Schneider
I mostly agree besides for the default. I think we all agree that the delayed start of the console is the better option for beginners while a lot of karaf developers like the console that starts directly. For this reason I think we should have the delayed start as default for two reasons: 1.

Re: Telling whether startup is really complete

2012-08-09 Thread Johan Edstrom
I actually completely disagree. I don't think delaying a start is good, I think logging / screaming why it isn't starting might be good. On Aug 9, 2012, at 12:48 PM, Christian Schneider wrote: I mostly agree besides for the default. I think we all agree that the delayed start of the console

Re: svn commit: r1371394 - /karaf/karaf/

2012-08-09 Thread Freeman Fang
+1, the command line is more reliable in this case :-) - Freeman Fang FuseSource Email:ff...@fusesource.com Web: fusesource.com Twitter: freemanfang Blog: http://freemanfang.blogspot.com http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1473905042 weibo: http://weibo.com/u/1473905042 On 2012-8-10, at

Re: Telling whether startup is really complete

2012-08-09 Thread Freeman Fang
Fully agree. Freeman - Freeman Fang FuseSource Email:ff...@fusesource.com Web: fusesource.com Twitter: freemanfang Blog: http://freemanfang.blogspot.com http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1473905042 weibo: http://weibo.com/u/1473905042 On 2012-8-10, at 上午12:43, Andreas Pieber wrote: After