Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
What we need is a slackbot where you can:
- start a discuss thread, that will get sent to email list
- listen to emails ( be on the list ) and post any discuss thread replies
not from slack TO slack
- add tagged comments to discuss thread
the list-slack singularity
On November 12, 2018 at 11:49:15, Scott C. Cote (scottcc...@gmail.com)
wrote:
I realize that I’m a “new kid” here, but I think you can have your cake and
eat it too…..
If I can create it, find it, or configure it, perhaps the really best way
is to be able to either:
1) dump public slack conversations to the developer thread - arbitrarily
2) dump public slack conversations to the user thread - IFF the
thread/conversation was tagged #user (or equivalent)
Slack is a wonderful tool for facilitating discussions - I cannot emphasize
how often spam filters and the inherent slowness email servers - have
interfered with rapid conversations. Additionally, the big “ask” of any
resolution on slack - has been “can you put this in the email thread”. Goes
without saying that the even bigger ask has been - can this be contributed
to the documentation.
I strongly recommend that you streamline the flow of information from Slack
to the list archives.
SCott
Scott C. Cote
scottcc...@gmail.com
972.900.1561
twitter: @scottccote
> On Nov 12, 2018, at 9:07 AM, Justin Leet wrote:
>
> I wanted to add back onto this thread after putting some more thought
into
> it.
>
> I like Slack for the type of small developer "what's going on here?" type
> discussions. That's the kind of thing I like being real-time ("Hey, full
> dev is acting weird", "What's the basic layout of this stuff?", "Anybody
> else seen this test failure?", etc.). I think we've been pretty good
about
> keeping our decision type dev discussions to the list (e.g. this exact
> conversation).
>
> We've been doing this more, but I would like to see more of the user and
> troubleshooting move to the list. I think we've gotten a bit better about
> it as we've settled into Slack, but having that sort of helpful stuff
> exposed and searchable for users who come in afterwards is a big selling
> point of the lists, imo.
>
> To add onto this, I'd probably like to see
>
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/METRON/Community+Resources#CommunityResources-ApacheMetronCommunityResources
> (and any other relevant links) updated to emphasize a Slack focus on
> developing Metron itself, and the user lists for configuration,
> troubleshooting, etc.
>
> Essentially, I'm proposing:
> Dev list / Jira / PRs as usual for any actual decisions + concrete
feature
> discussion/review.
> Slack for Metron development "Hey, anyone seen this or have insight or a
> starting point?" and "I'm seeing something weird in our tests" type stuff
> User list for usage and troubleshooting questions. Generally, discussions
> like this in Slack should be redirected to the user list.
>
> Is this a reasonable way separate our concerns here?
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:37 AM Michael Miklavcic <
> michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I'm also surprised by that comment about the mailing list
activity.
>> Our dev/user list discussions are by far more active than they've ever
>> been. Just have a look at the list of DISCUSS threads that have come up
in
>> the past few months and it's clear that not only participation has
>> increased, but diversity of topic and participant.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:08 AM Casey Stella wrote:
>>
>>> Not for nothing, but at least according to the last board report that I
>>> submitted, the user@ traffic is up 100% and the dev list traffic is
flat
>>> as
>>> compared to last quarter. That's not to say that we couldn't stand more
>>> discussion on the lists, but a lot of the dev discussion happens on
>> github
>>> and JIRA and I'm happy to see an uptick in user traffic.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:05 AM Otto Fowler
>>> wrote:
>>>
I wouldn’t be so quick to related the slack discussion with perceived
activity on the list.
That is more do to the other things that are bigger issues.
On October 24, 2018 at 07:15:30, Nick Allen (n...@nickallen.org)
>> wrote:
> I have heard recently people thought Metron is sort of dead just
>>> because
the mailing list is not so active anymore!
That is exactly my concern.
On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:49 AM Ali Nazemian
>>> wrote:
> I kind of expect to have Slack for more dev related discussions
>> rather
than
> user QA. I guess it is quite common to expect mailing list to be used
>>> for
> the purpose of knowledge sharing to make sure it will be accessible
>> by
> other users as well. Of course, it is a trade-off that most of the
>>> other
> Apache projects decided to accept the risk of keeping user related
> discussions out of Slack/IRC. However, it sometimes happens to see
>> the
> mixture of questions coming to Slack. I have heard recently people
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
Spot on Justin, I totally agree. My only nit is that often it's much
easier troubleshooting in Slack as opposed to the mailing lists, so I'm
game to allow some troubleshooting in Slack as long as the issue and
resolution makes it back to the lists. Given that slack message history is
being kept (although to what degree I'm not sure), we could fairly easily
link to the start of a discussion in slack in the wrap-up mailing list
email for future reference.
Jon
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 2:08 PM Casey Stella wrote:
> Piling on, +1 to what Justin said.
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 12:42 PM Michael Miklavcic <
> michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm also +1 to Justin's points.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:38 AM Nick Allen wrote:
> >
> > > +1 to all your points Justin.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:08 AM Justin Leet
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I wanted to add back onto this thread after putting some more thought
> > > into
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > I like Slack for the type of small developer "what's going on here?"
> > type
> > > > discussions. That's the kind of thing I like being real-time ("Hey,
> > full
> > > > dev is acting weird", "What's the basic layout of this stuff?",
> > "Anybody
> > > > else seen this test failure?", etc.). I think we've been pretty good
> > > about
> > > > keeping our decision type dev discussions to the list (e.g. this
> exact
> > > > conversation).
> > > >
> > > > We've been doing this more, but I would like to see more of the user
> > and
> > > > troubleshooting move to the list. I think we've gotten a bit better
> > > about
> > > > it as we've settled into Slack, but having that sort of helpful stuff
> > > > exposed and searchable for users who come in afterwards is a big
> > selling
> > > > point of the lists, imo.
> > > >
> > > > To add onto this, I'd probably like to see
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/METRON/Community+Resources#CommunityResources-ApacheMetronCommunityResources
> > > > (and any other relevant links) updated to emphasize a Slack focus on
> > > > developing Metron itself, and the user lists for configuration,
> > > > troubleshooting, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Essentially, I'm proposing:
> > > > Dev list / Jira / PRs as usual for any actual decisions + concrete
> > > feature
> > > > discussion/review.
> > > > Slack for Metron development "Hey, anyone seen this or have insight
> or
> > a
> > > > starting point?" and "I'm seeing something weird in our tests" type
> > stuff
> > > > User list for usage and troubleshooting questions. Generally,
> > > discussions
> > > > like this in Slack should be redirected to the user list.
> > > >
> > > > Is this a reasonable way separate our concerns here?
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:37 AM Michael Miklavcic <
> > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Yeah, I'm also surprised by that comment about the mailing list
> > > activity.
> > > > > Our dev/user list discussions are by far more active than they've
> > ever
> > > > > been. Just have a look at the list of DISCUSS threads that have
> come
> > up
> > > > in
> > > > > the past few months and it's clear that not only participation has
> > > > > increased, but diversity of topic and participant.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:08 AM Casey Stella
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Not for nothing, but at least according to the last board report
> > > that I
> > > > > > submitted, the user@ traffic is up 100% and the dev list traffic
> > is
> > > > flat
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > compared to last quarter. That's not to say that we couldn't
> stand
> > > > more
> > > > > > discussion on the lists, but a lot of the dev discussion happens
> on
> > > > > github
> > > > > > and JIRA and I'm happy to see an uptick in user traffic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:05 AM Otto Fowler <
> > > ottobackwa...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I wouldn’t be so quick to related the slack discussion with
> > > perceived
> > > > > > > activity on the list.
> > > > > > > That is more do to the other things that are bigger issues.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On October 24, 2018 at 07:15:30, Nick Allen (
> n...@nickallen.org)
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have heard recently people thought Metron is sort of dead
> > just
> > > > > > because
> > > > > > > the mailing list is not so active anymore!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That is exactly my concern.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:49 AM Ali Nazemian <
> > alinazem...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I kind of expect to have Slack for more dev related
> discussions
> > > > > rather
> > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > user QA. I guess it is quite common to expect mailing list to
> > be
> > > > used
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > the purpose of knowledge sharing to make sure it will be
> > > accessible
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
I'm also +1 to Justin's points.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:38 AM Nick Allen wrote:
> +1 to all your points Justin.
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:08 AM Justin Leet
> wrote:
>
> > I wanted to add back onto this thread after putting some more thought
> into
> > it.
> >
> > I like Slack for the type of small developer "what's going on here?" type
> > discussions. That's the kind of thing I like being real-time ("Hey, full
> > dev is acting weird", "What's the basic layout of this stuff?", "Anybody
> > else seen this test failure?", etc.). I think we've been pretty good
> about
> > keeping our decision type dev discussions to the list (e.g. this exact
> > conversation).
> >
> > We've been doing this more, but I would like to see more of the user and
> > troubleshooting move to the list. I think we've gotten a bit better
> about
> > it as we've settled into Slack, but having that sort of helpful stuff
> > exposed and searchable for users who come in afterwards is a big selling
> > point of the lists, imo.
> >
> > To add onto this, I'd probably like to see
> >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/METRON/Community+Resources#CommunityResources-ApacheMetronCommunityResources
> > (and any other relevant links) updated to emphasize a Slack focus on
> > developing Metron itself, and the user lists for configuration,
> > troubleshooting, etc.
> >
> > Essentially, I'm proposing:
> > Dev list / Jira / PRs as usual for any actual decisions + concrete
> feature
> > discussion/review.
> > Slack for Metron development "Hey, anyone seen this or have insight or a
> > starting point?" and "I'm seeing something weird in our tests" type stuff
> > User list for usage and troubleshooting questions. Generally,
> discussions
> > like this in Slack should be redirected to the user list.
> >
> > Is this a reasonable way separate our concerns here?
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:37 AM Michael Miklavcic <
> > michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Yeah, I'm also surprised by that comment about the mailing list
> activity.
> > > Our dev/user list discussions are by far more active than they've ever
> > > been. Just have a look at the list of DISCUSS threads that have come up
> > in
> > > the past few months and it's clear that not only participation has
> > > increased, but diversity of topic and participant.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:08 AM Casey Stella
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Not for nothing, but at least according to the last board report
> that I
> > > > submitted, the user@ traffic is up 100% and the dev list traffic is
> > flat
> > > > as
> > > > compared to last quarter. That's not to say that we couldn't stand
> > more
> > > > discussion on the lists, but a lot of the dev discussion happens on
> > > github
> > > > and JIRA and I'm happy to see an uptick in user traffic.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:05 AM Otto Fowler <
> ottobackwa...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I wouldn’t be so quick to related the slack discussion with
> perceived
> > > > > activity on the list.
> > > > > That is more do to the other things that are bigger issues.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On October 24, 2018 at 07:15:30, Nick Allen (n...@nickallen.org)
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I have heard recently people thought Metron is sort of dead just
> > > > because
> > > > > the mailing list is not so active anymore!
> > > > >
> > > > > That is exactly my concern.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:49 AM Ali Nazemian
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I kind of expect to have Slack for more dev related discussions
> > > rather
> > > > > than
> > > > > > user QA. I guess it is quite common to expect mailing list to be
> > used
> > > > for
> > > > > > the purpose of knowledge sharing to make sure it will be
> accessible
> > > by
> > > > > > other users as well. Of course, it is a trade-off that most of
> the
> > > > other
> > > > > > Apache projects decided to accept the risk of keeping user
> related
> > > > > > discussions out of Slack/IRC. However, it sometimes happens to
> see
> > > the
> > > > > > mixture of questions coming to Slack. I have heard recently
> people
> > > > > thought
> > > > > > Metron is sort of dead just because the mailing list is not so
> > active
> > > > > > anymore!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > Ali
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:23 AM Casey Stella >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Agreed, the benefit of the mailing list is that it’s searchable
> > by
> > > > > > ponymail
> > > > > > > and the major search engines.
> > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 17:18 Nick Allen
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't know that it is the same kind of searchable. Is it
> > being
> > > > > > indexed
> > > > > > > > by the major search engines? I have never used a search
> engine
> > > and
> > > > > > > > uncovered the answer to my problem in a Slack archive.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
Your suggestion is well received. I think what we're trying to avoid is a
big dump of Slack's stream of consciousness. There is an inherent
organization and required collection of thoughts that comes with the
dev/user list discussions that doesn't occur on Slack. Maybe threads can
help that a bit, but I'm not sure it should be a full replacement.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 9:49 AM Scott C. Cote wrote:
> I realize that I’m a “new kid” here, but I think you can have your cake
> and eat it too…..
>
> If I can create it, find it, or configure it, perhaps the really best way
> is to be able to either:
>
> 1) dump public slack conversations to the developer thread - arbitrarily
> 2) dump public slack conversations to the user thread - IFF the
> thread/conversation was tagged #user (or equivalent)
>
> Slack is a wonderful tool for facilitating discussions - I cannot
> emphasize how often spam filters and the inherent slowness email servers -
> have interfered with rapid conversations. Additionally, the big “ask” of
> any resolution on slack - has been “can you put this in the email
> thread”. Goes without saying that the even bigger ask has been - can
> this be contributed to the documentation.
>
> I strongly recommend that you streamline the flow of information from
> Slack to the list archives.
>
> SCott
> Scott C. Cote
> scottcc...@gmail.com
> 972.900.1561
>
> twitter: @scottccote
>
>
>
> > On Nov 12, 2018, at 9:07 AM, Justin Leet wrote:
> >
> > I wanted to add back onto this thread after putting some more thought
> into
> > it.
> >
> > I like Slack for the type of small developer "what's going on here?" type
> > discussions. That's the kind of thing I like being real-time ("Hey, full
> > dev is acting weird", "What's the basic layout of this stuff?", "Anybody
> > else seen this test failure?", etc.). I think we've been pretty good
> about
> > keeping our decision type dev discussions to the list (e.g. this exact
> > conversation).
> >
> > We've been doing this more, but I would like to see more of the user and
> > troubleshooting move to the list. I think we've gotten a bit better
> about
> > it as we've settled into Slack, but having that sort of helpful stuff
> > exposed and searchable for users who come in afterwards is a big selling
> > point of the lists, imo.
> >
> > To add onto this, I'd probably like to see
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/METRON/Community+Resources#CommunityResources-ApacheMetronCommunityResources
> > (and any other relevant links) updated to emphasize a Slack focus on
> > developing Metron itself, and the user lists for configuration,
> > troubleshooting, etc.
> >
> > Essentially, I'm proposing:
> > Dev list / Jira / PRs as usual for any actual decisions + concrete
> feature
> > discussion/review.
> > Slack for Metron development "Hey, anyone seen this or have insight or a
> > starting point?" and "I'm seeing something weird in our tests" type stuff
> > User list for usage and troubleshooting questions. Generally,
> discussions
> > like this in Slack should be redirected to the user list.
> >
> > Is this a reasonable way separate our concerns here?
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:37 AM Michael Miklavcic <
> > michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Yeah, I'm also surprised by that comment about the mailing list
> activity.
> >> Our dev/user list discussions are by far more active than they've ever
> >> been. Just have a look at the list of DISCUSS threads that have come up
> in
> >> the past few months and it's clear that not only participation has
> >> increased, but diversity of topic and participant.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:08 AM Casey Stella
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Not for nothing, but at least according to the last board report that I
> >>> submitted, the user@ traffic is up 100% and the dev list traffic is
> flat
> >>> as
> >>> compared to last quarter. That's not to say that we couldn't stand
> more
> >>> discussion on the lists, but a lot of the dev discussion happens on
> >> github
> >>> and JIRA and I'm happy to see an uptick in user traffic.
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:05 AM Otto Fowler
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> I wouldn’t be so quick to related the slack discussion with perceived
> activity on the list.
> That is more do to the other things that are bigger issues.
>
>
> On October 24, 2018 at 07:15:30, Nick Allen (n...@nickallen.org)
> >> wrote:
>
> > I have heard recently people thought Metron is sort of dead just
> >>> because
> the mailing list is not so active anymore!
>
> That is exactly my concern.
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:49 AM Ali Nazemian
> >>> wrote:
>
> > I kind of expect to have Slack for more dev related discussions
> >> rather
> than
> > user QA. I guess it is quite common to expect mailing list to be used
> >>> for
> > the purpose of knowledge sharing to make sure it will be accessible
> >> by
> >
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
+1 to all your points Justin.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:08 AM Justin Leet wrote:
> I wanted to add back onto this thread after putting some more thought into
> it.
>
> I like Slack for the type of small developer "what's going on here?" type
> discussions. That's the kind of thing I like being real-time ("Hey, full
> dev is acting weird", "What's the basic layout of this stuff?", "Anybody
> else seen this test failure?", etc.). I think we've been pretty good about
> keeping our decision type dev discussions to the list (e.g. this exact
> conversation).
>
> We've been doing this more, but I would like to see more of the user and
> troubleshooting move to the list. I think we've gotten a bit better about
> it as we've settled into Slack, but having that sort of helpful stuff
> exposed and searchable for users who come in afterwards is a big selling
> point of the lists, imo.
>
> To add onto this, I'd probably like to see
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/METRON/Community+Resources#CommunityResources-ApacheMetronCommunityResources
> (and any other relevant links) updated to emphasize a Slack focus on
> developing Metron itself, and the user lists for configuration,
> troubleshooting, etc.
>
> Essentially, I'm proposing:
> Dev list / Jira / PRs as usual for any actual decisions + concrete feature
> discussion/review.
> Slack for Metron development "Hey, anyone seen this or have insight or a
> starting point?" and "I'm seeing something weird in our tests" type stuff
> User list for usage and troubleshooting questions. Generally, discussions
> like this in Slack should be redirected to the user list.
>
> Is this a reasonable way separate our concerns here?
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:37 AM Michael Miklavcic <
> michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yeah, I'm also surprised by that comment about the mailing list activity.
> > Our dev/user list discussions are by far more active than they've ever
> > been. Just have a look at the list of DISCUSS threads that have come up
> in
> > the past few months and it's clear that not only participation has
> > increased, but diversity of topic and participant.
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:08 AM Casey Stella wrote:
> >
> > > Not for nothing, but at least according to the last board report that I
> > > submitted, the user@ traffic is up 100% and the dev list traffic is
> flat
> > > as
> > > compared to last quarter. That's not to say that we couldn't stand
> more
> > > discussion on the lists, but a lot of the dev discussion happens on
> > github
> > > and JIRA and I'm happy to see an uptick in user traffic.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:05 AM Otto Fowler
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I wouldn’t be so quick to related the slack discussion with perceived
> > > > activity on the list.
> > > > That is more do to the other things that are bigger issues.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On October 24, 2018 at 07:15:30, Nick Allen (n...@nickallen.org)
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I have heard recently people thought Metron is sort of dead just
> > > because
> > > > the mailing list is not so active anymore!
> > > >
> > > > That is exactly my concern.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:49 AM Ali Nazemian
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I kind of expect to have Slack for more dev related discussions
> > rather
> > > > than
> > > > > user QA. I guess it is quite common to expect mailing list to be
> used
> > > for
> > > > > the purpose of knowledge sharing to make sure it will be accessible
> > by
> > > > > other users as well. Of course, it is a trade-off that most of the
> > > other
> > > > > Apache projects decided to accept the risk of keeping user related
> > > > > discussions out of Slack/IRC. However, it sometimes happens to see
> > the
> > > > > mixture of questions coming to Slack. I have heard recently people
> > > > thought
> > > > > Metron is sort of dead just because the mailing list is not so
> active
> > > > > anymore!
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Ali
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:23 AM Casey Stella
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Agreed, the benefit of the mailing list is that it’s searchable
> by
> > > > > ponymail
> > > > > > and the major search engines.
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 17:18 Nick Allen
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know that it is the same kind of searchable. Is it
> being
> > > > > indexed
> > > > > > > by the major search engines? I have never used a search engine
> > and
> > > > > > > uncovered the answer to my problem in a Slack archive.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:05 PM Otto Fowler <
> > > ottobackwa...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > According to Greg Stein, an infra admin on the NiFi slack,
> the
> > > ASF
> > > > > > slack
> > > > > > > > that metron is in IS the standard plan, not the free one and
> is
> > > > > > > searchable
> > > > > > > > past 10,000 messages.
> > > > > > > >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
I wanted to add back onto this thread after putting some more thought into
it.
I like Slack for the type of small developer "what's going on here?" type
discussions. That's the kind of thing I like being real-time ("Hey, full
dev is acting weird", "What's the basic layout of this stuff?", "Anybody
else seen this test failure?", etc.). I think we've been pretty good about
keeping our decision type dev discussions to the list (e.g. this exact
conversation).
We've been doing this more, but I would like to see more of the user and
troubleshooting move to the list. I think we've gotten a bit better about
it as we've settled into Slack, but having that sort of helpful stuff
exposed and searchable for users who come in afterwards is a big selling
point of the lists, imo.
To add onto this, I'd probably like to see
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/METRON/Community+Resources#CommunityResources-ApacheMetronCommunityResources
(and any other relevant links) updated to emphasize a Slack focus on
developing Metron itself, and the user lists for configuration,
troubleshooting, etc.
Essentially, I'm proposing:
Dev list / Jira / PRs as usual for any actual decisions + concrete feature
discussion/review.
Slack for Metron development "Hey, anyone seen this or have insight or a
starting point?" and "I'm seeing something weird in our tests" type stuff
User list for usage and troubleshooting questions. Generally, discussions
like this in Slack should be redirected to the user list.
Is this a reasonable way separate our concerns here?
On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:37 AM Michael Miklavcic <
michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, I'm also surprised by that comment about the mailing list activity.
> Our dev/user list discussions are by far more active than they've ever
> been. Just have a look at the list of DISCUSS threads that have come up in
> the past few months and it's clear that not only participation has
> increased, but diversity of topic and participant.
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:08 AM Casey Stella wrote:
>
> > Not for nothing, but at least according to the last board report that I
> > submitted, the user@ traffic is up 100% and the dev list traffic is flat
> > as
> > compared to last quarter. That's not to say that we couldn't stand more
> > discussion on the lists, but a lot of the dev discussion happens on
> github
> > and JIRA and I'm happy to see an uptick in user traffic.
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:05 AM Otto Fowler
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I wouldn’t be so quick to related the slack discussion with perceived
> > > activity on the list.
> > > That is more do to the other things that are bigger issues.
> > >
> > >
> > > On October 24, 2018 at 07:15:30, Nick Allen (n...@nickallen.org)
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have heard recently people thought Metron is sort of dead just
> > because
> > > the mailing list is not so active anymore!
> > >
> > > That is exactly my concern.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:49 AM Ali Nazemian
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I kind of expect to have Slack for more dev related discussions
> rather
> > > than
> > > > user QA. I guess it is quite common to expect mailing list to be used
> > for
> > > > the purpose of knowledge sharing to make sure it will be accessible
> by
> > > > other users as well. Of course, it is a trade-off that most of the
> > other
> > > > Apache projects decided to accept the risk of keeping user related
> > > > discussions out of Slack/IRC. However, it sometimes happens to see
> the
> > > > mixture of questions coming to Slack. I have heard recently people
> > > thought
> > > > Metron is sort of dead just because the mailing list is not so active
> > > > anymore!
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Ali
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:23 AM Casey Stella
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Agreed, the benefit of the mailing list is that it’s searchable by
> > > > ponymail
> > > > > and the major search engines.
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 17:18 Nick Allen
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know that it is the same kind of searchable. Is it being
> > > > indexed
> > > > > > by the major search engines? I have never used a search engine
> and
> > > > > > uncovered the answer to my problem in a Slack archive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:05 PM Otto Fowler <
> > ottobackwa...@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > According to Greg Stein, an infra admin on the NiFi slack, the
> > ASF
> > > > > slack
> > > > > > > that metron is in IS the standard plan, not the free one and is
> > > > > > searchable
> > > > > > > past 10,000 messages.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On October 22, 2018 at 15:35:51, Michael Miklavcic (
> > > > > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com) wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ...From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think
> > > > there's
> > > > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also
> > easier
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
Yeah, I'm also surprised by that comment about the mailing list activity. Our dev/user list discussions are by far more active than they've ever been. Just have a look at the list of DISCUSS threads that have come up in the past few months and it's clear that not only participation has increased, but diversity of topic and participant. On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:08 AM Casey Stella wrote: > Not for nothing, but at least according to the last board report that I > submitted, the user@ traffic is up 100% and the dev list traffic is flat > as > compared to last quarter. That's not to say that we couldn't stand more > discussion on the lists, but a lot of the dev discussion happens on github > and JIRA and I'm happy to see an uptick in user traffic. > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:05 AM Otto Fowler > wrote: > > > I wouldn’t be so quick to related the slack discussion with perceived > > activity on the list. > > That is more do to the other things that are bigger issues. > > > > > > On October 24, 2018 at 07:15:30, Nick Allen (n...@nickallen.org) wrote: > > > > > I have heard recently people thought Metron is sort of dead just > because > > the mailing list is not so active anymore! > > > > That is exactly my concern. > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:49 AM Ali Nazemian > wrote: > > > > > I kind of expect to have Slack for more dev related discussions rather > > than > > > user QA. I guess it is quite common to expect mailing list to be used > for > > > the purpose of knowledge sharing to make sure it will be accessible by > > > other users as well. Of course, it is a trade-off that most of the > other > > > Apache projects decided to accept the risk of keeping user related > > > discussions out of Slack/IRC. However, it sometimes happens to see the > > > mixture of questions coming to Slack. I have heard recently people > > thought > > > Metron is sort of dead just because the mailing list is not so active > > > anymore! > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Ali > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:23 AM Casey Stella > wrote: > > > > > > > Agreed, the benefit of the mailing list is that it’s searchable by > > > ponymail > > > > and the major search engines. > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 17:18 Nick Allen wrote: > > > > > > > > > I don't know that it is the same kind of searchable. Is it being > > > indexed > > > > > by the major search engines? I have never used a search engine and > > > > > uncovered the answer to my problem in a Slack archive. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:05 PM Otto Fowler < > ottobackwa...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > According to Greg Stein, an infra admin on the NiFi slack, the > ASF > > > > slack > > > > > > that metron is in IS the standard plan, not the free one and is > > > > > searchable > > > > > > past 10,000 messages. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On October 22, 2018 at 15:35:51, Michael Miklavcic ( > > > > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > ...From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think > > > there's > > > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also > easier > > > to > > > > > link > > > > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1aa85bc13d41e04a1f85c3100c2b803abe35d79b54062bbeaab83ace@%3Cdev.metron.apache.org%3E > > > > > > > > > > > > How very Inception. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 1:32 PM Michael Miklavcic < > > > > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just want to point out that we currently have 32 members in > the > > > > > Metron > > > > > > > Slack channel which I personally think is a great sign. This is > > > good > > > > > from > > > > > > a > > > > > > > community perspective and helps foster interactive sessions > where > > > > > > required. > > > > > > > From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think > > > there's > > > > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also > > easier > > > > to > > > > > > link > > > > > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches. > As > > > > > such, I > > > > > > > would also go along with Nick's suggestion and urge members to > > > prefer > > > > > the > > > > > > > user/dev list where possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:51 AM Justin Leet < > > > justinjl...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> If we want to push more discussion to the dev list, my obvious > > > > follow > > > > > up > > > > > > >> question then is "What are we hoping to get out of > > Slack/irc/other > > > > > > >> interactive medium?". What discussion would we even want on > > there, > > > > if > > > > > we > > > > > > >> can't have decisions and don't want usage/support? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM Casey Stella < >
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
quick clarification, I said "a lot of dev discussion happens on github and JIRA". I want to make sure I didn't mean to imply that larger decisions were being made outside of the appropriate place, the dev list. On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:08 AM Casey Stella wrote: > Not for nothing, but at least according to the last board report that I > submitted, the user@ traffic is up 100% and the dev list traffic is flat > as compared to last quarter. That's not to say that we couldn't stand more > discussion on the lists, but a lot of the dev discussion happens on github > and JIRA and I'm happy to see an uptick in user traffic. > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:05 AM Otto Fowler > wrote: > >> I wouldn’t be so quick to related the slack discussion with perceived >> activity on the list. >> That is more do to the other things that are bigger issues. >> >> >> On October 24, 2018 at 07:15:30, Nick Allen (n...@nickallen.org) wrote: >> >> > I have heard recently people thought Metron is sort of dead just because >> the mailing list is not so active anymore! >> >> That is exactly my concern. >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:49 AM Ali Nazemian wrote: >> >> > I kind of expect to have Slack for more dev related discussions rather >> than >> > user QA. I guess it is quite common to expect mailing list to be used >> for >> > the purpose of knowledge sharing to make sure it will be accessible by >> > other users as well. Of course, it is a trade-off that most of the other >> > Apache projects decided to accept the risk of keeping user related >> > discussions out of Slack/IRC. However, it sometimes happens to see the >> > mixture of questions coming to Slack. I have heard recently people >> thought >> > Metron is sort of dead just because the mailing list is not so active >> > anymore! >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Ali >> > >> > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:23 AM Casey Stella >> wrote: >> > >> > > Agreed, the benefit of the mailing list is that it’s searchable by >> > ponymail >> > > and the major search engines. >> > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 17:18 Nick Allen wrote: >> > > >> > > > I don't know that it is the same kind of searchable. Is it being >> > indexed >> > > > by the major search engines? I have never used a search engine and >> > > > uncovered the answer to my problem in a Slack archive. >> > > > >> > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:05 PM Otto Fowler < >> ottobackwa...@gmail.com> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > According to Greg Stein, an infra admin on the NiFi slack, the ASF >> > > slack >> > > > > that metron is in IS the standard plan, not the free one and is >> > > > searchable >> > > > > past 10,000 messages. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On October 22, 2018 at 15:35:51, Michael Miklavcic ( >> > > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com) wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > ...From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think >> > there's >> > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also >> easier >> > to >> > > > link >> > > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches... >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1aa85bc13d41e04a1f85c3100c2b803abe35d79b54062bbeaab83ace@%3Cdev.metron.apache.org%3E >> > > > > >> > > > > How very Inception. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 1:32 PM Michael Miklavcic < >> > > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > I just want to point out that we currently have 32 members in >> the >> > > > Metron >> > > > > > Slack channel which I personally think is a great sign. This is >> > good >> > > > from >> > > > > a >> > > > > > community perspective and helps foster interactive sessions >> where >> > > > > required. >> > > > > > From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think >> > there's >> > > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also >> easier >> > > to >> > > > > link >> > > > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches. >> As >> > > > such, I >> > > > > > would also go along with Nick's suggestion and urge members to >> > prefer >> > > > the >> > > > > > user/dev list where possible. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:51 AM Justin Leet < >> > justinjl...@gmail.com> >> > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> If we want to push more discussion to the dev list, my obvious >> > > follow >> > > > up >> > > > > >> question then is "What are we hoping to get out of >> Slack/irc/other >> > > > > >> interactive medium?". What discussion would we even want on >> there, >> > > if >> > > > we >> > > > > >> can't have decisions and don't want usage/support? >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM Casey Stella < >> ceste...@gmail.com >> > > >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> > I am of 2 minds, but I tend to agree. On the one hand, it's >> > > > definitely >> > > > > >> the >> > > > > >> > preference that we use the mailing lists for the reasons
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
Not for nothing, but at least according to the last board report that I submitted, the user@ traffic is up 100% and the dev list traffic is flat as compared to last quarter. That's not to say that we couldn't stand more discussion on the lists, but a lot of the dev discussion happens on github and JIRA and I'm happy to see an uptick in user traffic. On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:05 AM Otto Fowler wrote: > I wouldn’t be so quick to related the slack discussion with perceived > activity on the list. > That is more do to the other things that are bigger issues. > > > On October 24, 2018 at 07:15:30, Nick Allen (n...@nickallen.org) wrote: > > > I have heard recently people thought Metron is sort of dead just because > the mailing list is not so active anymore! > > That is exactly my concern. > > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:49 AM Ali Nazemian wrote: > > > I kind of expect to have Slack for more dev related discussions rather > than > > user QA. I guess it is quite common to expect mailing list to be used for > > the purpose of knowledge sharing to make sure it will be accessible by > > other users as well. Of course, it is a trade-off that most of the other > > Apache projects decided to accept the risk of keeping user related > > discussions out of Slack/IRC. However, it sometimes happens to see the > > mixture of questions coming to Slack. I have heard recently people > thought > > Metron is sort of dead just because the mailing list is not so active > > anymore! > > > > Cheers, > > Ali > > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:23 AM Casey Stella wrote: > > > > > Agreed, the benefit of the mailing list is that it’s searchable by > > ponymail > > > and the major search engines. > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 17:18 Nick Allen wrote: > > > > > > > I don't know that it is the same kind of searchable. Is it being > > indexed > > > > by the major search engines? I have never used a search engine and > > > > uncovered the answer to my problem in a Slack archive. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:05 PM Otto Fowler > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > According to Greg Stein, an infra admin on the NiFi slack, the ASF > > > slack > > > > > that metron is in IS the standard plan, not the free one and is > > > > searchable > > > > > past 10,000 messages. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On October 22, 2018 at 15:35:51, Michael Miklavcic ( > > > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ...From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think > > there's > > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also easier > > to > > > > link > > > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1aa85bc13d41e04a1f85c3100c2b803abe35d79b54062bbeaab83ace@%3Cdev.metron.apache.org%3E > > > > > > > > > > How very Inception. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 1:32 PM Michael Miklavcic < > > > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I just want to point out that we currently have 32 members in the > > > > Metron > > > > > > Slack channel which I personally think is a great sign. This is > > good > > > > from > > > > > a > > > > > > community perspective and helps foster interactive sessions where > > > > > required. > > > > > > From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think > > there's > > > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also > easier > > > to > > > > > link > > > > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches. As > > > > such, I > > > > > > would also go along with Nick's suggestion and urge members to > > prefer > > > > the > > > > > > user/dev list where possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:51 AM Justin Leet < > > justinjl...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> If we want to push more discussion to the dev list, my obvious > > > follow > > > > up > > > > > >> question then is "What are we hoping to get out of > Slack/irc/other > > > > > >> interactive medium?". What discussion would we even want on > there, > > > if > > > > we > > > > > >> can't have decisions and don't want usage/support? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM Casey Stella < > ceste...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I am of 2 minds, but I tend to agree. On the one hand, it's > > > > definitely > > > > > >> the > > > > > >> > preference that we use the mailing lists for the reasons you > > > stated > > > > > (and > > > > > >> > also because not everyone has access to slack generally). On > the > > > > other > > > > > >> > hand, I think an interactive medium like Slack has a lot of > > > > advantages > > > > > >> in > > > > > >> > terms of user satisfaction. Ultimately, though, we may satisfy > 1 > > > > user > > > > > >> at > > > > > >> > the cost of not persisting the discussion and satisfying many > > > users. > > > > > >>
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
I wouldn’t be so quick to related the slack discussion with perceived activity on the list. That is more do to the other things that are bigger issues. On October 24, 2018 at 07:15:30, Nick Allen (n...@nickallen.org) wrote: > I have heard recently people thought Metron is sort of dead just because the mailing list is not so active anymore! That is exactly my concern. On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:49 AM Ali Nazemian wrote: > I kind of expect to have Slack for more dev related discussions rather than > user QA. I guess it is quite common to expect mailing list to be used for > the purpose of knowledge sharing to make sure it will be accessible by > other users as well. Of course, it is a trade-off that most of the other > Apache projects decided to accept the risk of keeping user related > discussions out of Slack/IRC. However, it sometimes happens to see the > mixture of questions coming to Slack. I have heard recently people thought > Metron is sort of dead just because the mailing list is not so active > anymore! > > Cheers, > Ali > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:23 AM Casey Stella wrote: > > > Agreed, the benefit of the mailing list is that it’s searchable by > ponymail > > and the major search engines. > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 17:18 Nick Allen wrote: > > > > > I don't know that it is the same kind of searchable. Is it being > indexed > > > by the major search engines? I have never used a search engine and > > > uncovered the answer to my problem in a Slack archive. > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:05 PM Otto Fowler > > > wrote: > > > > > > > According to Greg Stein, an infra admin on the NiFi slack, the ASF > > slack > > > > that metron is in IS the standard plan, not the free one and is > > > searchable > > > > past 10,000 messages. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On October 22, 2018 at 15:35:51, Michael Miklavcic ( > > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > ...From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think > there's > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also easier > to > > > link > > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1aa85bc13d41e04a1f85c3100c2b803abe35d79b54062bbeaab83ace@%3Cdev.metron.apache.org%3E > > > > > > > > How very Inception. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 1:32 PM Michael Miklavcic < > > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I just want to point out that we currently have 32 members in the > > > Metron > > > > > Slack channel which I personally think is a great sign. This is > good > > > from > > > > a > > > > > community perspective and helps foster interactive sessions where > > > > required. > > > > > From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think > there's > > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also easier > > to > > > > link > > > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches. As > > > such, I > > > > > would also go along with Nick's suggestion and urge members to > prefer > > > the > > > > > user/dev list where possible. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:51 AM Justin Leet < > justinjl...@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> If we want to push more discussion to the dev list, my obvious > > follow > > > up > > > > >> question then is "What are we hoping to get out of Slack/irc/other > > > > >> interactive medium?". What discussion would we even want on there, > > if > > > we > > > > >> can't have decisions and don't want usage/support? > > > > >> > > > > >> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM Casey Stella > > > > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> > I am of 2 minds, but I tend to agree. On the one hand, it's > > > definitely > > > > >> the > > > > >> > preference that we use the mailing lists for the reasons you > > stated > > > > (and > > > > >> > also because not everyone has access to slack generally). On the > > > other > > > > >> > hand, I think an interactive medium like Slack has a lot of > > > advantages > > > > >> in > > > > >> > terms of user satisfaction. Ultimately, though, we may satisfy 1 > > > user > > > > >> at > > > > >> > the cost of not persisting the discussion and satisfying many > > users. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I'll go along with a specific preference to drive more > discussion > > to > > > > the > > > > >> > mailing list. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Casey > > > > >> > > > > > >> > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:18 PM Nick Allen > > > > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > It seems that we are seeing a lot of Metron usage and support > > > > >> questions > > > > >> > on > > > > >> > > the Slack Channel. > > > > >> > > These are questions that previously would have been directed > to > > > the > > > > >> User > > > > >> > or > > > > >> > > Dev mailing lists. Since this is occurring in the Slack > Channel, > > > the > > > > >> > > conversations are not archived. > > > > >> > > > > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
> I have heard recently people thought Metron is sort of dead just because the mailing list is not so active anymore! That is exactly my concern. On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:49 AM Ali Nazemian wrote: > I kind of expect to have Slack for more dev related discussions rather than > user QA. I guess it is quite common to expect mailing list to be used for > the purpose of knowledge sharing to make sure it will be accessible by > other users as well. Of course, it is a trade-off that most of the other > Apache projects decided to accept the risk of keeping user related > discussions out of Slack/IRC. However, it sometimes happens to see the > mixture of questions coming to Slack. I have heard recently people thought > Metron is sort of dead just because the mailing list is not so active > anymore! > > Cheers, > Ali > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:23 AM Casey Stella wrote: > > > Agreed, the benefit of the mailing list is that it’s searchable by > ponymail > > and the major search engines. > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 17:18 Nick Allen wrote: > > > > > I don't know that it is the same kind of searchable. Is it being > indexed > > > by the major search engines? I have never used a search engine and > > > uncovered the answer to my problem in a Slack archive. > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:05 PM Otto Fowler > > > wrote: > > > > > > > According to Greg Stein, an infra admin on the NiFi slack, the ASF > > slack > > > > that metron is in IS the standard plan, not the free one and is > > > searchable > > > > past 10,000 messages. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On October 22, 2018 at 15:35:51, Michael Miklavcic ( > > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > ...From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think > there's > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also easier > to > > > link > > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1aa85bc13d41e04a1f85c3100c2b803abe35d79b54062bbeaab83ace@%3Cdev.metron.apache.org%3E > > > > > > > > How very Inception. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 1:32 PM Michael Miklavcic < > > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I just want to point out that we currently have 32 members in the > > > Metron > > > > > Slack channel which I personally think is a great sign. This is > good > > > from > > > > a > > > > > community perspective and helps foster interactive sessions where > > > > required. > > > > > From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think > there's > > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also easier > > to > > > > link > > > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches. As > > > such, I > > > > > would also go along with Nick's suggestion and urge members to > prefer > > > the > > > > > user/dev list where possible. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:51 AM Justin Leet < > justinjl...@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> If we want to push more discussion to the dev list, my obvious > > follow > > > up > > > > >> question then is "What are we hoping to get out of Slack/irc/other > > > > >> interactive medium?". What discussion would we even want on there, > > if > > > we > > > > >> can't have decisions and don't want usage/support? > > > > >> > > > > >> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM Casey Stella > > > > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> > I am of 2 minds, but I tend to agree. On the one hand, it's > > > definitely > > > > >> the > > > > >> > preference that we use the mailing lists for the reasons you > > stated > > > > (and > > > > >> > also because not everyone has access to slack generally). On the > > > other > > > > >> > hand, I think an interactive medium like Slack has a lot of > > > advantages > > > > >> in > > > > >> > terms of user satisfaction. Ultimately, though, we may satisfy 1 > > > user > > > > >> at > > > > >> > the cost of not persisting the discussion and satisfying many > > users. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I'll go along with a specific preference to drive more > discussion > > to > > > > the > > > > >> > mailing list. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Casey > > > > >> > > > > > >> > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:18 PM Nick Allen > > > > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > It seems that we are seeing a lot of Metron usage and support > > > > >> questions > > > > >> > on > > > > >> > > the Slack Channel. > > > > >> > > These are questions that previously would have been directed > to > > > the > > > > >> User > > > > >> > or > > > > >> > > Dev mailing lists. Since this is occurring in the Slack > Channel, > > > the > > > > >> > > conversations are not archived. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > In my opinion, this is not good for the Metron community. > Having > > > > this > > > > >> > > persisted in a discoverable form (like a mailing list archive) > > not > > > > >> only > > > > >> > > helps support current
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
I kind of expect to have Slack for more dev related discussions rather than user QA. I guess it is quite common to expect mailing list to be used for the purpose of knowledge sharing to make sure it will be accessible by other users as well. Of course, it is a trade-off that most of the other Apache projects decided to accept the risk of keeping user related discussions out of Slack/IRC. However, it sometimes happens to see the mixture of questions coming to Slack. I have heard recently people thought Metron is sort of dead just because the mailing list is not so active anymore! Cheers, Ali On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:23 AM Casey Stella wrote: > Agreed, the benefit of the mailing list is that it’s searchable by ponymail > and the major search engines. > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 17:18 Nick Allen wrote: > > > I don't know that it is the same kind of searchable. Is it being indexed > > by the major search engines? I have never used a search engine and > > uncovered the answer to my problem in a Slack archive. > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:05 PM Otto Fowler > > wrote: > > > > > According to Greg Stein, an infra admin on the NiFi slack, the ASF > slack > > > that metron is in IS the standard plan, not the free one and is > > searchable > > > past 10,000 messages. > > > > > > > > > > > > On October 22, 2018 at 15:35:51, Michael Miklavcic ( > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > > ...From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think there's > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also easier to > > link > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches... > > > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1aa85bc13d41e04a1f85c3100c2b803abe35d79b54062bbeaab83ace@%3Cdev.metron.apache.org%3E > > > > > > How very Inception. > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 1:32 PM Michael Miklavcic < > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > I just want to point out that we currently have 32 members in the > > Metron > > > > Slack channel which I personally think is a great sign. This is good > > from > > > a > > > > community perspective and helps foster interactive sessions where > > > required. > > > > From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think there's > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also easier > to > > > link > > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches. As > > such, I > > > > would also go along with Nick's suggestion and urge members to prefer > > the > > > > user/dev list where possible. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:51 AM Justin Leet > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> If we want to push more discussion to the dev list, my obvious > follow > > up > > > >> question then is "What are we hoping to get out of Slack/irc/other > > > >> interactive medium?". What discussion would we even want on there, > if > > we > > > >> can't have decisions and don't want usage/support? > > > >> > > > >> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM Casey Stella > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > I am of 2 minds, but I tend to agree. On the one hand, it's > > definitely > > > >> the > > > >> > preference that we use the mailing lists for the reasons you > stated > > > (and > > > >> > also because not everyone has access to slack generally). On the > > other > > > >> > hand, I think an interactive medium like Slack has a lot of > > advantages > > > >> in > > > >> > terms of user satisfaction. Ultimately, though, we may satisfy 1 > > user > > > >> at > > > >> > the cost of not persisting the discussion and satisfying many > users. > > > >> > > > > >> > I'll go along with a specific preference to drive more discussion > to > > > the > > > >> > mailing list. > > > >> > > > > >> > Casey > > > >> > > > > >> > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:18 PM Nick Allen > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > > It seems that we are seeing a lot of Metron usage and support > > > >> questions > > > >> > on > > > >> > > the Slack Channel. > > > >> > > These are questions that previously would have been directed to > > the > > > >> User > > > >> > or > > > >> > > Dev mailing lists. Since this is occurring in the Slack Channel, > > the > > > >> > > conversations are not archived. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > In my opinion, this is not good for the Metron community. Having > > > this > > > >> > > persisted in a discoverable form (like a mailing list archive) > not > > > >> only > > > >> > > helps support current users, but also helps *potential* users > > > >> understand > > > >> > > how Metron is being used. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Does anyone else agree or disagree? At a minimum, I feel we need > > to > > > >> do > > > >> > > something to direct these conversations back to the mailing > list. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- A.Nazemian
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
Agreed, the benefit of the mailing list is that it’s searchable by ponymail and the major search engines. On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 17:18 Nick Allen wrote: > I don't know that it is the same kind of searchable. Is it being indexed > by the major search engines? I have never used a search engine and > uncovered the answer to my problem in a Slack archive. > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:05 PM Otto Fowler > wrote: > > > According to Greg Stein, an infra admin on the NiFi slack, the ASF slack > > that metron is in IS the standard plan, not the free one and is > searchable > > past 10,000 messages. > > > > > > > > On October 22, 2018 at 15:35:51, Michael Miklavcic ( > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > ...From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think there's > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also easier to > link > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches... > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1aa85bc13d41e04a1f85c3100c2b803abe35d79b54062bbeaab83ace@%3Cdev.metron.apache.org%3E > > > > How very Inception. > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 1:32 PM Michael Miklavcic < > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I just want to point out that we currently have 32 members in the > Metron > > > Slack channel which I personally think is a great sign. This is good > from > > a > > > community perspective and helps foster interactive sessions where > > required. > > > From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think there's > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also easier to > > link > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches. As > such, I > > > would also go along with Nick's suggestion and urge members to prefer > the > > > user/dev list where possible. > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:51 AM Justin Leet > > > wrote: > > > > > >> If we want to push more discussion to the dev list, my obvious follow > up > > >> question then is "What are we hoping to get out of Slack/irc/other > > >> interactive medium?". What discussion would we even want on there, if > we > > >> can't have decisions and don't want usage/support? > > >> > > >> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM Casey Stella > > wrote: > > >> > > >> > I am of 2 minds, but I tend to agree. On the one hand, it's > definitely > > >> the > > >> > preference that we use the mailing lists for the reasons you stated > > (and > > >> > also because not everyone has access to slack generally). On the > other > > >> > hand, I think an interactive medium like Slack has a lot of > advantages > > >> in > > >> > terms of user satisfaction. Ultimately, though, we may satisfy 1 > user > > >> at > > >> > the cost of not persisting the discussion and satisfying many users. > > >> > > > >> > I'll go along with a specific preference to drive more discussion to > > the > > >> > mailing list. > > >> > > > >> > Casey > > >> > > > >> > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:18 PM Nick Allen > > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > It seems that we are seeing a lot of Metron usage and support > > >> questions > > >> > on > > >> > > the Slack Channel. > > >> > > These are questions that previously would have been directed to > the > > >> User > > >> > or > > >> > > Dev mailing lists. Since this is occurring in the Slack Channel, > the > > >> > > conversations are not archived. > > >> > > > > >> > > In my opinion, this is not good for the Metron community. Having > > this > > >> > > persisted in a discoverable form (like a mailing list archive) not > > >> only > > >> > > helps support current users, but also helps *potential* users > > >> understand > > >> > > how Metron is being used. > > >> > > > > >> > > Does anyone else agree or disagree? At a minimum, I feel we need > to > > >> do > > >> > > something to direct these conversations back to the mailing list. > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
I don't know that it is the same kind of searchable. Is it being indexed by the major search engines? I have never used a search engine and uncovered the answer to my problem in a Slack archive. On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:05 PM Otto Fowler wrote: > According to Greg Stein, an infra admin on the NiFi slack, the ASF slack > that metron is in IS the standard plan, not the free one and is searchable > past 10,000 messages. > > > > On October 22, 2018 at 15:35:51, Michael Miklavcic ( > michael.miklav...@gmail.com) wrote: > > ...From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think there's > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also easier to link > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches... > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1aa85bc13d41e04a1f85c3100c2b803abe35d79b54062bbeaab83ace@%3Cdev.metron.apache.org%3E > > How very Inception. > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 1:32 PM Michael Miklavcic < > michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I just want to point out that we currently have 32 members in the Metron > > Slack channel which I personally think is a great sign. This is good from > a > > community perspective and helps foster interactive sessions where > required. > > From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think there's > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also easier to > link > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches. As such, I > > would also go along with Nick's suggestion and urge members to prefer the > > user/dev list where possible. > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:51 AM Justin Leet > > wrote: > > > >> If we want to push more discussion to the dev list, my obvious follow up > >> question then is "What are we hoping to get out of Slack/irc/other > >> interactive medium?". What discussion would we even want on there, if we > >> can't have decisions and don't want usage/support? > >> > >> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM Casey Stella > wrote: > >> > >> > I am of 2 minds, but I tend to agree. On the one hand, it's definitely > >> the > >> > preference that we use the mailing lists for the reasons you stated > (and > >> > also because not everyone has access to slack generally). On the other > >> > hand, I think an interactive medium like Slack has a lot of advantages > >> in > >> > terms of user satisfaction. Ultimately, though, we may satisfy 1 user > >> at > >> > the cost of not persisting the discussion and satisfying many users. > >> > > >> > I'll go along with a specific preference to drive more discussion to > the > >> > mailing list. > >> > > >> > Casey > >> > > >> > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:18 PM Nick Allen > wrote: > >> > > >> > > It seems that we are seeing a lot of Metron usage and support > >> questions > >> > on > >> > > the Slack Channel. > >> > > These are questions that previously would have been directed to the > >> User > >> > or > >> > > Dev mailing lists. Since this is occurring in the Slack Channel, the > >> > > conversations are not archived. > >> > > > >> > > In my opinion, this is not good for the Metron community. Having > this > >> > > persisted in a discoverable form (like a mailing list archive) not > >> only > >> > > helps support current users, but also helps *potential* users > >> understand > >> > > how Metron is being used. > >> > > > >> > > Does anyone else agree or disagree? At a minimum, I feel we need to > >> do > >> > > something to direct these conversations back to the mailing list. > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
According to Greg Stein, an infra admin on the NiFi slack, the ASF slack that metron is in IS the standard plan, not the free one and is searchable past 10,000 messages. On October 22, 2018 at 15:35:51, Michael Miklavcic ( michael.miklav...@gmail.com) wrote: ...From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think there's something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also easier to link to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches... https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1aa85bc13d41e04a1f85c3100c2b803abe35d79b54062bbeaab83ace@%3Cdev.metron.apache.org%3E How very Inception. On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 1:32 PM Michael Miklavcic < michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote: > I just want to point out that we currently have 32 members in the Metron > Slack channel which I personally think is a great sign. This is good from a > community perspective and helps foster interactive sessions where required. > From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think there's > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also easier to link > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches. As such, I > would also go along with Nick's suggestion and urge members to prefer the > user/dev list where possible. > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:51 AM Justin Leet > wrote: > >> If we want to push more discussion to the dev list, my obvious follow up >> question then is "What are we hoping to get out of Slack/irc/other >> interactive medium?". What discussion would we even want on there, if we >> can't have decisions and don't want usage/support? >> >> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM Casey Stella wrote: >> >> > I am of 2 minds, but I tend to agree. On the one hand, it's definitely >> the >> > preference that we use the mailing lists for the reasons you stated (and >> > also because not everyone has access to slack generally). On the other >> > hand, I think an interactive medium like Slack has a lot of advantages >> in >> > terms of user satisfaction. Ultimately, though, we may satisfy 1 user >> at >> > the cost of not persisting the discussion and satisfying many users. >> > >> > I'll go along with a specific preference to drive more discussion to the >> > mailing list. >> > >> > Casey >> > >> > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:18 PM Nick Allen wrote: >> > >> > > It seems that we are seeing a lot of Metron usage and support >> questions >> > on >> > > the Slack Channel. >> > > These are questions that previously would have been directed to the >> User >> > or >> > > Dev mailing lists. Since this is occurring in the Slack Channel, the >> > > conversations are not archived. >> > > >> > > In my opinion, this is not good for the Metron community. Having this >> > > persisted in a discoverable form (like a mailing list archive) not >> only >> > > helps support current users, but also helps *potential* users >> understand >> > > how Metron is being used. >> > > >> > > Does anyone else agree or disagree? At a minimum, I feel we need to >> do >> > > something to direct these conversations back to the mailing list. >> > > >> > >> >
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
...From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think there's something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also easier to link to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches... https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1aa85bc13d41e04a1f85c3100c2b803abe35d79b54062bbeaab83ace@%3Cdev.metron.apache.org%3E How very Inception. On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 1:32 PM Michael Miklavcic < michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote: > I just want to point out that we currently have 32 members in the Metron > Slack channel which I personally think is a great sign. This is good from a > community perspective and helps foster interactive sessions where required. > From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think there's > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also easier to link > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do searches. As such, I > would also go along with Nick's suggestion and urge members to prefer the > user/dev list where possible. > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:51 AM Justin Leet > wrote: > >> If we want to push more discussion to the dev list, my obvious follow up >> question then is "What are we hoping to get out of Slack/irc/other >> interactive medium?". What discussion would we even want on there, if we >> can't have decisions and don't want usage/support? >> >> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM Casey Stella wrote: >> >> > I am of 2 minds, but I tend to agree. On the one hand, it's definitely >> the >> > preference that we use the mailing lists for the reasons you stated (and >> > also because not everyone has access to slack generally). On the other >> > hand, I think an interactive medium like Slack has a lot of advantages >> in >> > terms of user satisfaction. Ultimately, though, we may satisfy 1 user >> at >> > the cost of not persisting the discussion and satisfying many users. >> > >> > I'll go along with a specific preference to drive more discussion to the >> > mailing list. >> > >> > Casey >> > >> > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:18 PM Nick Allen wrote: >> > >> > > It seems that we are seeing a lot of Metron usage and support >> questions >> > on >> > > the Slack Channel. >> > > These are questions that previously would have been directed to the >> User >> > or >> > > Dev mailing lists. Since this is occurring in the Slack Channel, the >> > > conversations are not archived. >> > > >> > > In my opinion, this is not good for the Metron community. Having this >> > > persisted in a discoverable form (like a mailing list archive) not >> only >> > > helps support current users, but also helps *potential* users >> understand >> > > how Metron is being used. >> > > >> > > Does anyone else agree or disagree? At a minimum, I feel we need to >> do >> > > something to direct these conversations back to the mailing list. >> > > >> > >> >
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
If we want to push more discussion to the dev list, my obvious follow up question then is "What are we hoping to get out of Slack/irc/other interactive medium?". What discussion would we even want on there, if we can't have decisions and don't want usage/support? On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM Casey Stella wrote: > I am of 2 minds, but I tend to agree. On the one hand, it's definitely the > preference that we use the mailing lists for the reasons you stated (and > also because not everyone has access to slack generally). On the other > hand, I think an interactive medium like Slack has a lot of advantages in > terms of user satisfaction. Ultimately, though, we may satisfy 1 user at > the cost of not persisting the discussion and satisfying many users. > > I'll go along with a specific preference to drive more discussion to the > mailing list. > > Casey > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:18 PM Nick Allen wrote: > > > It seems that we are seeing a lot of Metron usage and support questions > on > > the Slack Channel. > > These are questions that previously would have been directed to the User > or > > Dev mailing lists. Since this is occurring in the Slack Channel, the > > conversations are not archived. > > > > In my opinion, this is not good for the Metron community. Having this > > persisted in a discoverable form (like a mailing list archive) not only > > helps support current users, but also helps *potential* users understand > > how Metron is being used. > > > > Does anyone else agree or disagree? At a minimum, I feel we need to do > > something to direct these conversations back to the mailing list. > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
I am of 2 minds, but I tend to agree. On the one hand, it's definitely the preference that we use the mailing lists for the reasons you stated (and also because not everyone has access to slack generally). On the other hand, I think an interactive medium like Slack has a lot of advantages in terms of user satisfaction. Ultimately, though, we may satisfy 1 user at the cost of not persisting the discussion and satisfying many users. I'll go along with a specific preference to drive more discussion to the mailing list. Casey On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:18 PM Nick Allen wrote: > It seems that we are seeing a lot of Metron usage and support questions on > the Slack Channel. > These are questions that previously would have been directed to the User or > Dev mailing lists. Since this is occurring in the Slack Channel, the > conversations are not archived. > > In my opinion, this is not good for the Metron community. Having this > persisted in a discoverable form (like a mailing list archive) not only > helps support current users, but also helps *potential* users understand > how Metron is being used. > > Does anyone else agree or disagree? At a minimum, I feel we need to do > something to direct these conversations back to the mailing list. >
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
The help given on the Channel is great. It is just much more scalable on an archived mailing list. Hence the Apache Foundation's preference for mailing lists. On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:27 PM Otto Fowler wrote: > These questions also occurred on the IRC channel. The difference is that > there are more than Jon and I answering now. > > > On October 22, 2018 at 12:18:08, Nick Allen (n...@nickallen.org) wrote: > > It seems that we are seeing a lot of Metron usage and support questions on > the Slack Channel. > These are questions that previously would have been directed to the User > or > Dev mailing lists. Since this is occurring in the Slack Channel, the > conversations are not archived. > > In my opinion, this is not good for the Metron community. Having this > persisted in a discoverable form (like a mailing list archive) not only > helps support current users, but also helps *potential* users understand > how Metron is being used. > > Does anyone else agree or disagree? At a minimum, I feel we need to do > something to direct these conversations back to the mailing list. > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
These questions also occurred on the IRC channel. The difference is that there are more than Jon and I answering now. On October 22, 2018 at 12:18:08, Nick Allen (n...@nickallen.org) wrote: It seems that we are seeing a lot of Metron usage and support questions on the Slack Channel. These are questions that previously would have been directed to the User or Dev mailing lists. Since this is occurring in the Slack Channel, the conversations are not archived. In my opinion, this is not good for the Metron community. Having this persisted in a discoverable form (like a mailing list archive) not only helps support current users, but also helps *potential* users understand how Metron is being used. Does anyone else agree or disagree? At a minimum, I feel we need to do something to direct these conversations back to the mailing list.
