Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-26 Thread Anton Chernov
Here is a demo with some impressions:

https://youtu.be/UwJxLztoI1o

The MXNet blog post will follow soon.

We wanted to show it on GTC as well, but couldn't allocate the needed time.

You can see the code in Thomas repository:

https://github.com/ThomasDelteil/RobotTracker_MXNet

But it's far from being just reusable and lacks documentation.

I could see though that if we get enough time, we would wrap most things
into docker containers, write proper instructions and give the community
the opportunity to contribute and to show it on their own.

Best
Anton


ср, 20 мар. 2019 г. в 17:08, Aaron Markham :

> Anton, can you share the design and specs and code for the robot arm demo?
> I wish that was being shown at GTC now. It would be great to let people
> borrow it for West coast events. Maybe I can get one built here in Palo
> Alto.
>
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 05:54 Anton Chernov  wrote:
>
> > I don't know whether that is enough, but here are a few efforts we make
> to
> > promote MXNet:
> >
> > * The robotic arms demo at the embedded world
> > We promoted MXNet as the framework to go on embedded devices with our
> > robotic arms demo. We've got a lot of attention from different people
> > including professors from multiple universities. A blog post about the
> demo
> > will be posted in the next days MXNet Medium blog [1].
> >
> > Here again some impressions from twitter:
> > https://twitter.com/lebegus/status/1100839414228500485
> >
> > * MLPerf results
> > We intend to publish more benchmark results to MLPerf [2], showing proof
> of
> > the performance advantages of MXNet.
> >
> > * Recurring user group meetings
> > We offer recurring VC meetings [3], free for everyone. We dedicate our
> time
> > to anyone that would like to know more about MXNet or to ask any other
> > related question.
> >
> > * Collaborative meetups
> > We organize meetups with attendants from various companies [4], sharing
> > their interesting use cases and best practises with ML and MXNet.
> >
> > Tracking works and papers on popular science conferences is a valid
> metric,
> > but it's focused on research. More and more people that don't write
> papers
> > use ML and MXNet in production without knowing all the scientific
> details.
> > How to measure how many are out there is an open question.
> >
> > Best
> > Anton
> >
> > [1] https://medium.com/apache-mxnet
> > [2] https://mlperf.org/
> > [3] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/7BY0BQ
> > [4] https://www.meetup.com/Deep-Learning-with-Apache-MXNet-Berlin
> >
> >
> > вт, 19 мар. 2019 г. в 07:23, Isabel Drost-Fromm :
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Am 19. März 2019 02:49:23 MEZ schrieb "Zhao, Patric" <
> > > patric.z...@intel.com>:
> > > >I suggest to encourage and fund the students/researchers to present
> > > >their works on the popular conference.
> > > >I know talking is easy but maybe the decision maker can allocate more
> > > >resources for marketing.
> > >
> > > Just for clarity, who exactly do you mean with "the decision maker"?
> > > Decision maker for what?
> > >
> > > On another note, beyond that one conference, which other channels do
> > > people here follow? How did you first hear about mxnet?
> > >
> > >
> > > Isabel
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.
> > >
> >
>


Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-20 Thread Aaron Markham
Anton, can you share the design and specs and code for the robot arm demo?
I wish that was being shown at GTC now. It would be great to let people
borrow it for West coast events. Maybe I can get one built here in Palo
Alto.

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 05:54 Anton Chernov  wrote:

> I don't know whether that is enough, but here are a few efforts we make to
> promote MXNet:
>
> * The robotic arms demo at the embedded world
> We promoted MXNet as the framework to go on embedded devices with our
> robotic arms demo. We've got a lot of attention from different people
> including professors from multiple universities. A blog post about the demo
> will be posted in the next days MXNet Medium blog [1].
>
> Here again some impressions from twitter:
> https://twitter.com/lebegus/status/1100839414228500485
>
> * MLPerf results
> We intend to publish more benchmark results to MLPerf [2], showing proof of
> the performance advantages of MXNet.
>
> * Recurring user group meetings
> We offer recurring VC meetings [3], free for everyone. We dedicate our time
> to anyone that would like to know more about MXNet or to ask any other
> related question.
>
> * Collaborative meetups
> We organize meetups with attendants from various companies [4], sharing
> their interesting use cases and best practises with ML and MXNet.
>
> Tracking works and papers on popular science conferences is a valid metric,
> but it's focused on research. More and more people that don't write papers
> use ML and MXNet in production without knowing all the scientific details.
> How to measure how many are out there is an open question.
>
> Best
> Anton
>
> [1] https://medium.com/apache-mxnet
> [2] https://mlperf.org/
> [3] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/7BY0BQ
> [4] https://www.meetup.com/Deep-Learning-with-Apache-MXNet-Berlin
>
>
> вт, 19 мар. 2019 г. в 07:23, Isabel Drost-Fromm :
>
> >
> >
> > Am 19. März 2019 02:49:23 MEZ schrieb "Zhao, Patric" <
> > patric.z...@intel.com>:
> > >I suggest to encourage and fund the students/researchers to present
> > >their works on the popular conference.
> > >I know talking is easy but maybe the decision maker can allocate more
> > >resources for marketing.
> >
> > Just for clarity, who exactly do you mean with "the decision maker"?
> > Decision maker for what?
> >
> > On another note, beyond that one conference, which other channels do
> > people here follow? How did you first hear about mxnet?
> >
> >
> > Isabel
> >
> >
> > --
> > Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.
> >
>


Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-19 Thread Anton Chernov
I don't know whether that is enough, but here are a few efforts we make to
promote MXNet:

* The robotic arms demo at the embedded world
We promoted MXNet as the framework to go on embedded devices with our
robotic arms demo. We've got a lot of attention from different people
including professors from multiple universities. A blog post about the demo
will be posted in the next days MXNet Medium blog [1].

Here again some impressions from twitter:
https://twitter.com/lebegus/status/1100839414228500485

* MLPerf results
We intend to publish more benchmark results to MLPerf [2], showing proof of
the performance advantages of MXNet.

* Recurring user group meetings
We offer recurring VC meetings [3], free for everyone. We dedicate our time
to anyone that would like to know more about MXNet or to ask any other
related question.

* Collaborative meetups
We organize meetups with attendants from various companies [4], sharing
their interesting use cases and best practises with ML and MXNet.

Tracking works and papers on popular science conferences is a valid metric,
but it's focused on research. More and more people that don't write papers
use ML and MXNet in production without knowing all the scientific details.
How to measure how many are out there is an open question.

Best
Anton

[1] https://medium.com/apache-mxnet
[2] https://mlperf.org/
[3] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/7BY0BQ
[4] https://www.meetup.com/Deep-Learning-with-Apache-MXNet-Berlin


вт, 19 мар. 2019 г. в 07:23, Isabel Drost-Fromm :

>
>
> Am 19. März 2019 02:49:23 MEZ schrieb "Zhao, Patric" <
> patric.z...@intel.com>:
> >I suggest to encourage and fund the students/researchers to present
> >their works on the popular conference.
> >I know talking is easy but maybe the decision maker can allocate more
> >resources for marketing.
>
> Just for clarity, who exactly do you mean with "the decision maker"?
> Decision maker for what?
>
> On another note, beyond that one conference, which other channels do
> people here follow? How did you first hear about mxnet?
>
>
> Isabel
>
>
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.
>


RE: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-19 Thread Isabel Drost-Fromm



Am 19. März 2019 02:49:23 MEZ schrieb "Zhao, Patric" :
>I suggest to encourage and fund the students/researchers to present
>their works on the popular conference.
>I know talking is easy but maybe the decision maker can allocate more
>resources for marketing.

Just for clarity, who exactly do you mean with "the decision maker"? Decision 
maker for what?

On another note, beyond that one conference, which other channels do people 
here follow? How did you first hear about mxnet?


Isabel


-- 
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.


Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-18 Thread Way Barrios
Hi Patric,

I'm grad researcher from Robotics Institute at CMU, I use mxnet in my
research in video analysis, and your idea to fund the students/researchers
to present their works on the popular conference is really interesting.

Best

Wayner

On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 at 21:58, Zhao, Patric  wrote:

> Regarding the marketing, one example from the GTC, which is ongoing at San
> Jose, US now.
>
>
> https://gputechconf2019.smarteventscloud.com/connect/search.ww#loadSearch-searchPhrase==session=0=dayTime=
>
> There are total 850 sessions and I search the keyword of MXNet, Pytorch
> and Tensorflow.
> The session with MXNet is still very little though there are lots of very
> great features and advantages from MXNet.
>
> I suggest to encourage and fund the students/researchers to present their
> works on the popular conference.
> I know talking is easy but maybe the decision maker can allocate more
> resources for marketing.
>
>
> MXNet 7 times, about 0.8%
>
> https://gputechconf2019.smarteventscloud.com/connect/search.ww#loadSearch-searchPhrase=MXNet=session=0=dayTime=
>
> Pytorch 22 times, 2%
>
> https://gputechconf2019.smarteventscloud.com/connect/search.ww#loadSearch-searchPhrase=pytorch=session=0=dayTime=
>
> Tensorflow 46 times, 5%
>
> https://gputechconf2019.smarteventscloud.com/connect/search.ww#loadSearch-searchPhrase=tensorflow=session=0=dayTime=
>
> --Patric
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Lin Yuan [mailto:apefor...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2019 5:15 AM
> > To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building
> >
> > Zach,
> >
> > Thanks for joining in the mxnet project and your very thoughtful
> discussion.
> > We do have virtual hangout/meetups. Please refer to
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/Meetups+and+Hangou
> > ts
> >
> > I also strongly agree with your 4). I think we should have a clear
> roadmap on
> > our wiki page and/or github repo.
> >
> > Again, welcome on board!
> >
> > Lin
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 7:33 AM Zhao, Patric 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Very great points!
> > >
> > > +1 for 4) and 5)
> > >
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Zach Boldyga [mailto:z...@scalabull.com]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2019 8:33 AM
> > > > To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building
> > > >
> > > > This is a great discussion, thanks for opening, Carin!
> > > >
> > > > As a newcomer to MXNet and Apache communities in general, I’ve been
> > > > considering what I can bring to the table here, and what importance
> > > > it
> > > would
> > > > have to me.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not employed by large organizations, and communities like this
> > > > are perhaps the only way to be involved in projects of such a large
> > > > scale and importance. An opportunity to join this type of team
> > > > without the full commitment of employment is fantastic! I see
> > > > potential for this to be a
> > > form
> > > > of validation, a chance to meet others and build professional
> > > relationships,
> > > > and a vehicle to learn from some of the most well-educated people in
> > > > the industry.
> > > >
> > > > That said, here’s what I’ve noticed thus far:
> > > >
> > > > 1. There is a healthy amount of activity in Github Issues, and the
> > > committers
> > > > are doing a great job at allowing newcomers to jump in. I was able
> > > > to get started on my first ticket within 10 minutes of searching
> thru issues.
> > > >
> > > > 2. The dev mailing list is a great place to discuss all of the
> > > > nuances
> > > of the
> > > > project. I also like meeting people and it would be rewarding to get
> > > > to
> > > know
> > > > people in the community via Skype or in-person meetups! This doesn’t
> > > > have to be for everyone, and I don’t think it’s appropriate for Q,
> > > > but for
> > > some
> > > > people a social element purely for the sake of putting names with
> > > > faces
> > > can
> > > > be rewarding. I’m open to virtual meetups :)
> > > >
> > > > 3. My first commit was smooth. When approaching the second one, I’m
> > > > hitting some hiccups. For instance, I recently created a JIRA ticket
> > > based on a
> > > > Github Issue some users reported, and the ticket has been sitting
> > > > for a
> > > week
> > > > without any activity. Should I just dig in and open a PR? How do the
> > > > commiters decide what can and can’t reasonably go into the project?
> > > > We may be able to make some changes to the contribution
> > > > documentation or processes to make it easier for first time
> > > > contributors to ramp-up into
> > > regular
> > > > contributors?
> > > >
> > > > 4. I would love to see more discussion about the future of MXNet. I
> > > imagine
> > > > those who have been involved in the project for a long time have
> > > > thoughts about next major steps, but as an outsider I’m not sure
> > > > where to find
> > > this
> > > 

RE: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-18 Thread Zhao, Patric
Regarding the marketing, one example from the GTC, which is ongoing at San 
Jose, US now.

https://gputechconf2019.smarteventscloud.com/connect/search.ww#loadSearch-searchPhrase==session=0=dayTime=

There are total 850 sessions and I search the keyword of MXNet, Pytorch and 
Tensorflow.
The session with MXNet is still very little though there are lots of very great 
features and advantages from MXNet.

I suggest to encourage and fund the students/researchers to present their works 
on the popular conference.
I know talking is easy but maybe the decision maker can allocate more resources 
for marketing.


MXNet 7 times, about 0.8%
https://gputechconf2019.smarteventscloud.com/connect/search.ww#loadSearch-searchPhrase=MXNet=session=0=dayTime=

Pytorch 22 times, 2%
https://gputechconf2019.smarteventscloud.com/connect/search.ww#loadSearch-searchPhrase=pytorch=session=0=dayTime=

Tensorflow 46 times, 5%
https://gputechconf2019.smarteventscloud.com/connect/search.ww#loadSearch-searchPhrase=tensorflow=session=0=dayTime=

--Patric

> -Original Message-
> From: Lin Yuan [mailto:apefor...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2019 5:15 AM
> To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building
> 
> Zach,
> 
> Thanks for joining in the mxnet project and your very thoughtful discussion.
> We do have virtual hangout/meetups. Please refer to
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/Meetups+and+Hangou
> ts
> 
> I also strongly agree with your 4). I think we should have a clear roadmap on
> our wiki page and/or github repo.
> 
> Again, welcome on board!
> 
> Lin
> 
> 
> On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 7:33 AM Zhao, Patric 
> wrote:
> 
> > Very great points!
> >
> > +1 for 4) and 5)
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Zach Boldyga [mailto:z...@scalabull.com]
> > > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2019 8:33 AM
> > > To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building
> > >
> > > This is a great discussion, thanks for opening, Carin!
> > >
> > > As a newcomer to MXNet and Apache communities in general, I’ve been
> > > considering what I can bring to the table here, and what importance
> > > it
> > would
> > > have to me.
> > >
> > > I'm not employed by large organizations, and communities like this
> > > are perhaps the only way to be involved in projects of such a large
> > > scale and importance. An opportunity to join this type of team
> > > without the full commitment of employment is fantastic! I see
> > > potential for this to be a
> > form
> > > of validation, a chance to meet others and build professional
> > relationships,
> > > and a vehicle to learn from some of the most well-educated people in
> > > the industry.
> > >
> > > That said, here’s what I’ve noticed thus far:
> > >
> > > 1. There is a healthy amount of activity in Github Issues, and the
> > committers
> > > are doing a great job at allowing newcomers to jump in. I was able
> > > to get started on my first ticket within 10 minutes of searching thru 
> > > issues.
> > >
> > > 2. The dev mailing list is a great place to discuss all of the
> > > nuances
> > of the
> > > project. I also like meeting people and it would be rewarding to get
> > > to
> > know
> > > people in the community via Skype or in-person meetups! This doesn’t
> > > have to be for everyone, and I don’t think it’s appropriate for Q,
> > > but for
> > some
> > > people a social element purely for the sake of putting names with
> > > faces
> > can
> > > be rewarding. I’m open to virtual meetups :)
> > >
> > > 3. My first commit was smooth. When approaching the second one, I’m
> > > hitting some hiccups. For instance, I recently created a JIRA ticket
> > based on a
> > > Github Issue some users reported, and the ticket has been sitting
> > > for a
> > week
> > > without any activity. Should I just dig in and open a PR? How do the
> > > commiters decide what can and can’t reasonably go into the project?
> > > We may be able to make some changes to the contribution
> > > documentation or processes to make it easier for first time
> > > contributors to ramp-up into
> > regular
> > > contributors?
> > >
> > > 4. I would love to see more discussion about the future of MXNet. I
> > imagine
> > > those who have been involved in the project for a long time have
> > > thoughts about next major steps, but as an outsider I’m not sure
> > > where to find
> > this
> > > information. The roadmap on Github is fairly short-term and
> > > outdated, and lots of interesting ideas are sprouting in projects
> > > like TF Swift as of
> > 2019.
> > >
> > > 5. Something I’ve observed across many Apache projects: there isn’t
> > > much focus on marketing. I wonder why? A tool like Tensorflow is
> > > reaching 10x more people, mainly because of marketing.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Zach Boldyga
> > > Scalabull  |  Founder
> > > 1 (866) 846-8771 x 101
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 5:38 

Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-18 Thread Isabel Drost-Fromm



Am 17. März 2019 22:15:15 MEZ schrieb Lin Yuan :
>Thanks for joining in the mxnet project and your very thoughtful
>discussion. We do have virtual hangout/meetups. Please refer to
>https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/Meetups+and+Hangouts

Would it help to have summaries of its discussions copied here?

Zack, what would have helped you find that meetup?

>I also strongly agree with your 4). I think we should have a clear
>roadmap
>on our wiki page and/or github repo.

Looking forward to discussions on what should be on there and why on the mxnet 
lists. Maybe going over that list would be something you could do each time 
you're shipping a release?


Isabel

-- 
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.


Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-17 Thread Lin Yuan
Zach,

Thanks for joining in the mxnet project and your very thoughtful
discussion. We do have virtual hangout/meetups. Please refer to
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/Meetups+and+Hangouts

I also strongly agree with your 4). I think we should have a clear roadmap
on our wiki page and/or github repo.

Again, welcome on board!

Lin


On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 7:33 AM Zhao, Patric  wrote:

> Very great points!
>
> +1 for 4) and 5)
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Zach Boldyga [mailto:z...@scalabull.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2019 8:33 AM
> > To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building
> >
> > This is a great discussion, thanks for opening, Carin!
> >
> > As a newcomer to MXNet and Apache communities in general, I’ve been
> > considering what I can bring to the table here, and what importance it
> would
> > have to me.
> >
> > I'm not employed by large organizations, and communities like this are
> > perhaps the only way to be involved in projects of such a large scale and
> > importance. An opportunity to join this type of team without the full
> > commitment of employment is fantastic! I see potential for this to be a
> form
> > of validation, a chance to meet others and build professional
> relationships,
> > and a vehicle to learn from some of the most well-educated people in the
> > industry.
> >
> > That said, here’s what I’ve noticed thus far:
> >
> > 1. There is a healthy amount of activity in Github Issues, and the
> committers
> > are doing a great job at allowing newcomers to jump in. I was able to get
> > started on my first ticket within 10 minutes of searching thru issues.
> >
> > 2. The dev mailing list is a great place to discuss all of the nuances
> of the
> > project. I also like meeting people and it would be rewarding to get to
> know
> > people in the community via Skype or in-person meetups! This doesn’t have
> > to be for everyone, and I don’t think it’s appropriate for Q, but for
> some
> > people a social element purely for the sake of putting names with faces
> can
> > be rewarding. I’m open to virtual meetups :)
> >
> > 3. My first commit was smooth. When approaching the second one, I’m
> > hitting some hiccups. For instance, I recently created a JIRA ticket
> based on a
> > Github Issue some users reported, and the ticket has been sitting for a
> week
> > without any activity. Should I just dig in and open a PR? How do the
> > commiters decide what can and can’t reasonably go into the project? We
> > may be able to make some changes to the contribution documentation or
> > processes to make it easier for first time contributors to ramp-up into
> regular
> > contributors?
> >
> > 4. I would love to see more discussion about the future of MXNet. I
> imagine
> > those who have been involved in the project for a long time have thoughts
> > about next major steps, but as an outsider I’m not sure where to find
> this
> > information. The roadmap on Github is fairly short-term and outdated, and
> > lots of interesting ideas are sprouting in projects like TF Swift as of
> 2019.
> >
> > 5. Something I’ve observed across many Apache projects: there isn’t much
> > focus on marketing. I wonder why? A tool like Tensorflow is reaching 10x
> > more people, mainly because of marketing.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Zach Boldyga
> > Scalabull  |  Founder
> > 1 (866) 846-8771 x 101
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 5:38 AM Tianqi Chen 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > what happens (also) happens in the mail-list.
> > >
> > > If there is a certain things or person’s contribution is only known by
> > > colleagues, it is a indication of things that should be improved
> > > toward more apache way.
> > >
> > > Tianqi
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 4:42 AM Isabel Drost-Fromm 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Mar 06, 2019 at 10:03:57PM -0800, Steffen Rochel wrote:
> > > > > I agree with Tianqi on "One approach toward building a more
> > > > > diverse community is to acknowledge the fact that we want to
> > > > > encourage
> > > > interactions
> > > > > in the Apache way beyond our physical cycle." However, I disagree
> > > > > with
> > > > his
> > > > > suggestion regarding "One principle to toward that is to encourage
> > > > > PMC members only nominate committers from other organizations" for
> > > > > the following reasons: [...]
> > > >
> > > > I spent quite some time digging remembering that a similar topic had
> > > > been discussed somewhere at the ASF at some point in time with many
> > > > whys, pros and cons towards contributor employer diversity - finally
> > > > found a long and winding thread there:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7a7412316ddbe1d43f5fb3d3703ea25a6
> > >
> > b26e56de602e27e175785c0@1337815698@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.or
> > g%3E
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There is one answer in there from Roy Fielding which has a similar
> > > > story to the one that you are 

RE: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-17 Thread Zhao, Patric
Very great points!   

+1 for 4) and 5)


> -Original Message-
> From: Zach Boldyga [mailto:z...@scalabull.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2019 8:33 AM
> To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building
> 
> This is a great discussion, thanks for opening, Carin!
> 
> As a newcomer to MXNet and Apache communities in general, I’ve been
> considering what I can bring to the table here, and what importance it would
> have to me.
> 
> I'm not employed by large organizations, and communities like this are
> perhaps the only way to be involved in projects of such a large scale and
> importance. An opportunity to join this type of team without the full
> commitment of employment is fantastic! I see potential for this to be a form
> of validation, a chance to meet others and build professional relationships,
> and a vehicle to learn from some of the most well-educated people in the
> industry.
> 
> That said, here’s what I’ve noticed thus far:
> 
> 1. There is a healthy amount of activity in Github Issues, and the committers
> are doing a great job at allowing newcomers to jump in. I was able to get
> started on my first ticket within 10 minutes of searching thru issues.
> 
> 2. The dev mailing list is a great place to discuss all of the nuances of the
> project. I also like meeting people and it would be rewarding to get to know
> people in the community via Skype or in-person meetups! This doesn’t have
> to be for everyone, and I don’t think it’s appropriate for Q, but for some
> people a social element purely for the sake of putting names with faces can
> be rewarding. I’m open to virtual meetups :)
> 
> 3. My first commit was smooth. When approaching the second one, I’m
> hitting some hiccups. For instance, I recently created a JIRA ticket based on 
> a
> Github Issue some users reported, and the ticket has been sitting for a week
> without any activity. Should I just dig in and open a PR? How do the
> commiters decide what can and can’t reasonably go into the project? We
> may be able to make some changes to the contribution documentation or
> processes to make it easier for first time contributors to ramp-up into 
> regular
> contributors?
> 
> 4. I would love to see more discussion about the future of MXNet. I imagine
> those who have been involved in the project for a long time have thoughts
> about next major steps, but as an outsider I’m not sure where to find this
> information. The roadmap on Github is fairly short-term and outdated, and
> lots of interesting ideas are sprouting in projects like TF Swift as of 2019.
> 
> 5. Something I’ve observed across many Apache projects: there isn’t much
> focus on marketing. I wonder why? A tool like Tensorflow is reaching 10x
> more people, mainly because of marketing.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Zach Boldyga
> Scalabull  |  Founder
> 1 (866) 846-8771 x 101
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 5:38 AM Tianqi Chen 
> wrote:
> 
> > what happens (also) happens in the mail-list.
> >
> > If there is a certain things or person’s contribution is only known by
> > colleagues, it is a indication of things that should be improved
> > toward more apache way.
> >
> > Tianqi
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 4:42 AM Isabel Drost-Fromm 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Mar 06, 2019 at 10:03:57PM -0800, Steffen Rochel wrote:
> > > > I agree with Tianqi on "One approach toward building a more
> > > > diverse community is to acknowledge the fact that we want to
> > > > encourage
> > > interactions
> > > > in the Apache way beyond our physical cycle." However, I disagree
> > > > with
> > > his
> > > > suggestion regarding "One principle to toward that is to encourage
> > > > PMC members only nominate committers from other organizations" for
> > > > the following reasons: [...]
> > >
> > > I spent quite some time digging remembering that a similar topic had
> > > been discussed somewhere at the ASF at some point in time with many
> > > whys, pros and cons towards contributor employer diversity - finally
> > > found a long and winding thread there:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7a7412316ddbe1d43f5fb3d3703ea25a6
> >
> b26e56de602e27e175785c0@1337815698@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.or
> g%3E
> > >
> > >
> > > There is one answer in there from Roy Fielding which has a similar
> > > story to the one that you are describing, Steffen. My main takeaway
> > > of what was discussed back then: "Diversity is only a warning sign
> > > that means we need to check for decisions made in our forums and
> > > advise accordingly."
> > >
> > > The questions I personally tend to ask myself: How easy is it to
> > > follow
> > the
> > > project from just subscribing to it's mailing lists (remember the
> > > "if it didn't happen on the mailing list, it didn't happen"), get
> > > active, get involved, be treated as a fellow project member and be
> > > voted in as committer and PMC member.
> > >
> > > For a more condensed text on the topic of 

Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-16 Thread Zach Boldyga
This is a great discussion, thanks for opening, Carin!

As a newcomer to MXNet and Apache communities in general, I’ve been
considering what I can bring to the table here, and what importance it
would have to me.

I'm not employed by large organizations, and communities like this are
perhaps the only way to be involved in projects of such a large scale and
importance. An opportunity to join this type of team without the full
commitment of employment is fantastic! I see potential for this to be a
form of validation, a chance to meet others and build professional
relationships, and a vehicle to learn from some of the most well-educated
people in the industry.

That said, here’s what I’ve noticed thus far:

1. There is a healthy amount of activity in Github Issues, and the
committers are doing a great job at allowing newcomers to jump in. I was
able to get started on my first ticket within 10 minutes of searching thru
issues.

2. The dev mailing list is a great place to discuss all of the nuances of
the project. I also like meeting people and it would be rewarding to get to
know people in the community via Skype or in-person meetups! This doesn’t
have to be for everyone, and I don’t think it’s appropriate for Q, but
for some people a social element purely for the sake of putting names with
faces can be rewarding. I’m open to virtual meetups :)

3. My first commit was smooth. When approaching the second one, I’m hitting
some hiccups. For instance, I recently created a JIRA ticket based on a
Github Issue some users reported, and the ticket has been sitting for a
week without any activity. Should I just dig in and open a PR? How do the
commiters decide what can and can’t reasonably go into the project? We may
be able to make some changes to the contribution documentation or processes
to make it easier for first time contributors to ramp-up into regular
contributors?

4. I would love to see more discussion about the future of MXNet. I imagine
those who have been involved in the project for a long time have thoughts
about next major steps, but as an outsider I’m not sure where to find this
information. The roadmap on Github is fairly short-term and outdated, and
lots of interesting ideas are sprouting in projects like TF Swift as of
2019.

5. Something I’ve observed across many Apache projects: there isn’t much
focus on marketing. I wonder why? A tool like Tensorflow is reaching 10x
more people, mainly because of marketing.

Best,

Zach Boldyga
Scalabull  |  Founder
1 (866) 846-8771 x 101


On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 5:38 AM Tianqi Chen  wrote:

> what happens (also) happens in the mail-list.
>
> If there is a certain things or person’s contribution is only known by
> colleagues, it is a indication of things that should be improved toward
> more apache way.
>
> Tianqi
>
> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 4:42 AM Isabel Drost-Fromm 
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Mar 06, 2019 at 10:03:57PM -0800, Steffen Rochel wrote:
> > > I agree with Tianqi on "One approach toward building a more diverse
> > > community is to acknowledge the fact that we want to encourage
> > interactions
> > > in the Apache way beyond our physical cycle." However, I disagree with
> > his
> > > suggestion regarding "One principle to toward that is to encourage PMC
> > > members only nominate committers from other organizations" for the
> > > following reasons: [...]
> >
> > I spent quite some time digging remembering that a similar topic had been
> > discussed somewhere at the ASF at some point in time with many whys, pros
> > and
> > cons towards contributor employer diversity - finally found a long and
> > winding
> > thread there:
> >
> >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7a7412316ddbe1d43f5fb3d3703ea25a6b26e56de602e27e175785c0@1337815698@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> >
> >
> > There is one answer in there from Roy Fielding which has a similar story
> > to the
> > one that you are describing, Steffen. My main takeaway of what was
> > discussed
> > back then: "Diversity is only a warning sign that means we need to check
> > for
> > decisions made in our forums and advise accordingly."
> >
> > The questions I personally tend to ask myself: How easy is it to follow
> the
> > project from just subscribing to it's mailing lists (remember the "if it
> > didn't
> > happen on the mailing list, it didn't happen"), get active, get involved,
> > be
> > treated as a fellow project member and be voted in as committer and PMC
> > member.
> >
> > For a more condensed text on the topic of "ASF projects are made of
> > individuals"
> > you might also want to check out the ASF guidelines over there:
> > https://www.confluent.io/apache-engineering-guidelines/
> > https://www.confluent.io/apache-guidelines
> >
> > Related material was published at ApacheCon :
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFNE0IpKOxU
> >
> > There's also lovely content that was recently produced over at
> > dev@community:
> >
> >
> 

Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-07 Thread Tianqi Chen
what happens (also) happens in the mail-list.

If there is a certain things or person’s contribution is only known by
colleagues, it is a indication of things that should be improved toward
more apache way.

Tianqi

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 4:42 AM Isabel Drost-Fromm  wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 06, 2019 at 10:03:57PM -0800, Steffen Rochel wrote:
> > I agree with Tianqi on "One approach toward building a more diverse
> > community is to acknowledge the fact that we want to encourage
> interactions
> > in the Apache way beyond our physical cycle." However, I disagree with
> his
> > suggestion regarding "One principle to toward that is to encourage PMC
> > members only nominate committers from other organizations" for the
> > following reasons: [...]
>
> I spent quite some time digging remembering that a similar topic had been
> discussed somewhere at the ASF at some point in time with many whys, pros
> and
> cons towards contributor employer diversity - finally found a long and
> winding
> thread there:
>
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7a7412316ddbe1d43f5fb3d3703ea25a6b26e56de602e27e175785c0@1337815698@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>
>
> There is one answer in there from Roy Fielding which has a similar story
> to the
> one that you are describing, Steffen. My main takeaway of what was
> discussed
> back then: "Diversity is only a warning sign that means we need to check
> for
> decisions made in our forums and advise accordingly."
>
> The questions I personally tend to ask myself: How easy is it to follow the
> project from just subscribing to it's mailing lists (remember the "if it
> didn't
> happen on the mailing list, it didn't happen"), get active, get involved,
> be
> treated as a fellow project member and be voted in as committer and PMC
> member.
>
> For a more condensed text on the topic of "ASF projects are made of
> individuals"
> you might also want to check out the ASF guidelines over there:
> https://www.confluent.io/apache-engineering-guidelines/
> https://www.confluent.io/apache-guidelines
>
> Related material was published at ApacheCon :
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFNE0IpKOxU
>
> There's also lovely content that was recently produced over at
> dev@community:
>
> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/183nXPAxpJymQBOYOt1FnFaahRcQskIvOyIvHRC6UAnE/edit#slide=id.g4a86a2ca5a_0_69
>
>
> Isabel
>
>


Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-07 Thread Isabel Drost-Fromm
On Wed, Mar 06, 2019 at 10:03:57PM -0800, Steffen Rochel wrote:
> I agree with Tianqi on "One approach toward building a more diverse
> community is to acknowledge the fact that we want to encourage interactions
> in the Apache way beyond our physical cycle." However, I disagree with his
> suggestion regarding "One principle to toward that is to encourage PMC
> members only nominate committers from other organizations" for the
> following reasons: [...]

I spent quite some time digging remembering that a similar topic had been
discussed somewhere at the ASF at some point in time with many whys, pros and
cons towards contributor employer diversity - finally found a long and winding
thread there:

https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7a7412316ddbe1d43f5fb3d3703ea25a6b26e56de602e27e175785c0@1337815698@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E


There is one answer in there from Roy Fielding which has a similar story to the
one that you are describing, Steffen. My main takeaway of what was discussed
back then: "Diversity is only a warning sign that means we need to check for
decisions made in our forums and advise accordingly."

The questions I personally tend to ask myself: How easy is it to follow the
project from just subscribing to it's mailing lists (remember the "if it didn't
happen on the mailing list, it didn't happen"), get active, get involved, be
treated as a fellow project member and be voted in as committer and PMC member.

For a more condensed text on the topic of "ASF projects are made of individuals"
you might also want to check out the ASF guidelines over there:
https://www.confluent.io/apache-engineering-guidelines/
https://www.confluent.io/apache-guidelines

Related material was published at ApacheCon :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFNE0IpKOxU

There's also lovely content that was recently produced over at dev@community:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/183nXPAxpJymQBOYOt1FnFaahRcQskIvOyIvHRC6UAnE/edit#slide=id.g4a86a2ca5a_0_69


Isabel



Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-06 Thread Sheng Zha
First, I echo a lot with Steffen’s points on educating users on the usage of 
MXNet and DL, and my team at my day job takes it as its mission. Just to name a 
few related efforts: d2l.ai (a whole book on deep learning with mxnet), the 
numerous tutorials in GluonCV, GluonNLP, DGL toolkits, the public course on 
introduction to deep learning at UC Berkeley by Mu Li and Alex Smola.

Recognizing non-code contribution has also been one of the recent focus of the 
PPMC. In fact, Aston Zhang, who made significant contribution to the community 
by looking after the user forum and writing the d2l book, has just joined us as 
a committer of our community. Kuo Ding, also known as chinakook, the maintainer 
of the Awesome-MXNet list and advocate of MXNet in various social media, has 
also just accepted our invite to become a committer. PPMC will definitely be on 
the watch for more.

In addition, as PPMC member, I’m also interested in other ways to help 
technical contributors to become familiar with the code base. I hope to grow 
the pool of competencies in the committer group in various areas, by helping 
interested community members. A larger pool of competencies makes better 
experience for all contributors in the form of meaningful technical feedbacks 
and code reviews. In my case, I spend half of my time on Github reviewing code, 
and also participating in a wide range of design reviews. I’ve been encouraging 
my committer peers to do the same. From the perspective of an experienced 
committer, I think growth in the pool of technical competencies is sorely 
needed, and I’m definitely interested in manageable ways to reach more people 
and help those with the drive to grow with the community.

Towards meet-ups and hangouts, I have mixed feeling. On one hand, meeting other 
MXNetters is exciting and I’d definitely like to indulge. On the other hand, 
meet-ups tend to make it impossible, or at least time-consuming for people who 
didn’t attend to digest. By spending the same time on carefully writing answers 
to issues, I could easily have helped 10x more people across space and time. 
Meet-ups also encourage off-list decision-making which is a bit concerning to 
me too. These are my personal takes and I thought I should be candid about this 
so that people who do attend can be more conscious about taking the 
conversations back to the list.

In terms of nomination outside one’s own organization, my impression is that 
this comes from the desire of growing the diversity in the community, 
specifically in terms of the day job. So the “organization” refers specifically 
to day job employer. From my perspective, I think all nomination should be 
encouraged, and the day job of a community member doesn’t affect the merit one 
has earned. That said, given that we strive to grow an open and transparent 
community, a community member whose impact is limited only to one’s day job is 
a red flag. The failure to leave any impression outside of the same 
organization is likely a symptom of relying too much on private-channel 
communication or making decision outside the community. If such case arises, I 
think PPMC members can be trusted to recognize it as a problem.

-sz

> On Mar 6, 2019, at 10:03 PM, Steffen Rochel  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Carin to start the discussion on this important topic.
> My suggestions:
> 1) get more involved educating the public about MXNet and how to use for
> DL. Carin's Can You GAN?  is a
> great example and there are many others. Meetups are another good way (DL
> with MXNet 
> has now 10 local chapters with 1842 members in 8 countries, but there are
> still a lot of "white" areas). Recognize contributors like Cosmin
>  and Lai
> 
> .
> 2) Recognize non-code contributors like all the people answering questions
> at the various discussion forums.
> 3) invite people to contribute - github repo has zero issues labelled "Help
> Wanted", 21 out of 993 open issues are labelled as "Good First Issues".
> Recognize people who go through the effort of classification of issues and
> mentor the new contributors
> 4) talk to the "drive by contributors" i.e. people who contribute once and
> then disappear. What is preventing them to contribute more then once?
> 5) be more active communicating and cross-promoting events related to MXNet
> through announcements on dev@, discussion forum and re-tweets.
> 
> I agree with Tianqi on "One approach toward building a more diverse
> community is to acknowledge the fact that we want to encourage interactions
> in the Apache way beyond our physical cycle." However, I disagree with his
> suggestion regarding "One principle to toward that is to encourage PMC
> members only nominate committers from other organizations" 

Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-06 Thread Steffen Rochel
Thanks Carin to start the discussion on this important topic.
My suggestions:
1) get more involved educating the public about MXNet and how to use for
DL. Carin's Can You GAN?  is a
great example and there are many others. Meetups are another good way (DL
with MXNet 
has now 10 local chapters with 1842 members in 8 countries, but there are
still a lot of "white" areas). Recognize contributors like Cosmin
 and Lai

.
2) Recognize non-code contributors like all the people answering questions
at the various discussion forums.
3) invite people to contribute - github repo has zero issues labelled "Help
Wanted", 21 out of 993 open issues are labelled as "Good First Issues".
Recognize people who go through the effort of classification of issues and
mentor the new contributors
4) talk to the "drive by contributors" i.e. people who contribute once and
then disappear. What is preventing them to contribute more then once?
5) be more active communicating and cross-promoting events related to MXNet
through announcements on dev@, discussion forum and re-tweets.

I agree with Tianqi on "One approach toward building a more diverse
community is to acknowledge the fact that we want to encourage interactions
in the Apache way beyond our physical cycle." However, I disagree with his
suggestion regarding "One principle to toward that is to encourage PMC
members only nominate committers from other organizations" for the
following reasons:
1. We had a long discussion about becoming committer and PPMC member and
voted about it in Oct/Nov 2018 - please see Wiki
.
This document (adopted by MXNet PPMC) calls out for PMC members to strive
to "mentor contributors to become eligible for consideration as
committer/PMC member". If somebody is making the effort to mentor a person
from any organization, then he should also have the right to propose such
contributor. This document, which was adopted just 5 month ago didn't
include the policy Tianqi proposed. Has something changed to substantiate
reopening the discussion? Every PMC member should support the community
development and have the right to propose any active contributor based on
merit as committer or PMC member.
2. It will be very difficult to define "other organizations". E.g. (1) Steven
Turner

is
actively promoting MXNet by organizing meetup in London and in his day job
works for AWS. (2) I recently moved from Amazon AI to Amazon Redshift and
as such have no involvement with MXNet as part of my day job, but I'm still
with Amazon. Are such situations considered being part of the same
organization or not? Does any non-Amazon PPMC member even know about the
contributions Steven (and other meetup and conference contributors) are
making?
3. MXNet has a number of active, multi-year code and non-code contributors
which are still not recognized as committer or PMC members. The PMC should
not make it harder to recognize such contributions with arbitrary rules and
rather actively mentoring such contributors to grow the community.

Best,
Steffen



On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 12:11 PM Isabel Drost-Fromm 
wrote:

>
>
> Am 6. März 2019 18:36:36 MEZ schrieb Aaron Markham <
> aaron.s.mark...@gmail.com>:
> >Having more creatives in the open source community, not just MXNet,
> >would
> >be great for diversity.
>
> .oO(And something that would be appreciated even at the foundation
> level...)
>
> Is there anything else that people can think of where help might be
> needed? Anything else where getting involved or following the project could
> be made easier?
>
>
> Isabel (who seriously hates auto correct on Android, see "corrections" in
> my last mail, sorry for those misspellings)
>
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.


Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-06 Thread Isabel Drost-Fromm


Am 6. März 2019 18:36:36 MEZ schrieb Aaron Markham :
>Having more creatives in the open source community, not just MXNet,
>would
>be great for diversity.

.oO(And something that would be appreciated even at the foundation level...)

Is there anything else that people can think of where help might be needed? 
Anything else where getting involved or following the project could be made 
easier?


Isabel (who seriously hates auto correct on Android, see "corrections" in my 
last mail, sorry for those misspellings)

-- 
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.

Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-06 Thread Aaron Markham
I'd like to see if we can get designers involved. I noted that there are
some boot camps for UX and design. They pick up projects for class to
design a brand or a new site or service. Why not get them involved with
open source? Apache has a lot of projects with sites that could use help,
and ours, especially the new one could use help.

I think designers would benefit as they'd have a public portfolio piece
that they can reference plus they would get to learn all about the open
source tools and meet folks. Having worked on an open source project is
impressive, more so than designing a site or app that never launched.

Even small examples that are like mini apps could get a face lift. The docs
could even get help with graphics that explain how stuff works. People that
do data visualization could have a productive time working with ML as well.

Having more creatives in the open source community, not just MXNet, would
be great for diversity.

Cheers,
Aaron


On Wed, Mar 6, 2019, 07:10 Isabel Drost-Fromm  wrote:

>
>
> Am 2. März 2019 15:13:23 MEZ schrieb Carin Meier :
> >I wanted to kickoff a discussion about community building. There was an
> >excellent blog post from the Apache Beam Community on this
> >https://blogs.apache.org/comdev/entry/an-approach-to-community-building
>
> Needless to say I really love that blog post.
>
> Other than that there are a couple of question you might ask yourself as a
> community:
>
> How easy is it to patriciate as an outsider, how much communication is
> happening outside of dev@?
>
> How explicit are you about how inclusive you want to be? See also
> https://youtu.be/LgB1s3buccI
>
> How explicit are you about where you need help (including and beyond
> coding)?
>
> How explicit are you with downstream users that some of the inner workings
> of Apache projects are build around a scratch your own itch casual
> contributions that ideally should be rewarded the same way as full-time
> contributions (
> https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/success-at-apache-for-love )?
>
> I think you want to enable as many ppl as possible - typically only ten
> percent of your users turn into contributor, of those only ten percent
> trend to be repeat contributors... at least in my experience.
>
> Just some ideas,
> Isabel
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.
>


Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-06 Thread Tianqi Chen
It is important for a contribution to be visible publically, and being able
to get identifications from PMC members  that you do not interact daily is
a way to do that.

It also boils down to the trust, on whether fellow PMC members think it is
appropriate to entrust others to do the nomination. I personally would love
to collaborate with my fellow PMC members, and in the case that I was not
trusted, refrain from doing things

Anyway, as I said, I just want to share this way of positive community
building, and see what the community thinks

Tianqi

On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 12:15 PM Anirudh Acharya 
wrote:

> Having only non-organization PMC members nominate new committers could
> un-level the playing field.
> 1. Many times contributions might not require a contributor to have direct
> 1:1 discussion with PMC members outside his org.
> 2. It would give inordinate power/responsibility to the few non-Amazon
> active PMC members.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
>
> Thanks
> Anirudh
>
> On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 7:10 AM Isabel Drost-Fromm 
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Am 2. März 2019 15:13:23 MEZ schrieb Carin Meier :
> > >I wanted to kickoff a discussion about community building. There was an
> > >excellent blog post from the Apache Beam Community on this
> > >https://blogs.apache.org/comdev/entry/an-approach-to-community-building
> >
> > Needless to say I really love that blog post.
> >
> > Other than that there are a couple of question you might ask yourself as
> a
> > community:
> >
> > How easy is it to patriciate as an outsider, how much communication is
> > happening outside of dev@?
> >
> > How explicit are you about how inclusive you want to be? See also
> > https://youtu.be/LgB1s3buccI
> >
> > How explicit are you about where you need help (including and beyond
> > coding)?
> >
> > How explicit are you with downstream users that some of the inner
> workings
> > of Apache projects are build around a scratch your own itch casual
> > contributions that ideally should be rewarded the same way as full-time
> > contributions (
> > https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/success-at-apache-for-love )?
> >
> > I think you want to enable as many ppl as possible - typically only ten
> > percent of your users turn into contributor, of those only ten percent
> > trend to be repeat contributors... at least in my experience.
> >
> > Just some ideas,
> > Isabel
> > --
> > Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.
> >
>


Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-06 Thread Anirudh Acharya
Having only non-organization PMC members nominate new committers could
un-level the playing field.
1. Many times contributions might not require a contributor to have direct
1:1 discussion with PMC members outside his org.
2. It would give inordinate power/responsibility to the few non-Amazon
active PMC members.

Just my 2 cents.


Thanks
Anirudh

On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 7:10 AM Isabel Drost-Fromm  wrote:

>
>
> Am 2. März 2019 15:13:23 MEZ schrieb Carin Meier :
> >I wanted to kickoff a discussion about community building. There was an
> >excellent blog post from the Apache Beam Community on this
> >https://blogs.apache.org/comdev/entry/an-approach-to-community-building
>
> Needless to say I really love that blog post.
>
> Other than that there are a couple of question you might ask yourself as a
> community:
>
> How easy is it to patriciate as an outsider, how much communication is
> happening outside of dev@?
>
> How explicit are you about how inclusive you want to be? See also
> https://youtu.be/LgB1s3buccI
>
> How explicit are you about where you need help (including and beyond
> coding)?
>
> How explicit are you with downstream users that some of the inner workings
> of Apache projects are build around a scratch your own itch casual
> contributions that ideally should be rewarded the same way as full-time
> contributions (
> https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/success-at-apache-for-love )?
>
> I think you want to enable as many ppl as possible - typically only ten
> percent of your users turn into contributor, of those only ten percent
> trend to be repeat contributors... at least in my experience.
>
> Just some ideas,
> Isabel
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.
>


Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-06 Thread Isabel Drost-Fromm



Am 2. März 2019 15:13:23 MEZ schrieb Carin Meier :
>I wanted to kickoff a discussion about community building. There was an
>excellent blog post from the Apache Beam Community on this
>https://blogs.apache.org/comdev/entry/an-approach-to-community-building

Needless to say I really love that blog post.

Other than that there are a couple of question you might ask yourself as a 
community:

How easy is it to patriciate as an outsider, how much communication is 
happening outside of dev@?

How explicit are you about how inclusive you want to be? See also 
https://youtu.be/LgB1s3buccI

How explicit are you about where you need help (including and beyond coding)?

How explicit are you with downstream users that some of the inner workings of 
Apache projects are build around a scratch your own itch casual contributions 
that ideally should be rewarded the same way as full-time contributions 
(https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/success-at-apache-for-love )?

I think you want to enable as many ppl as possible - typically only ten percent 
of your users turn into contributor, of those only ten percent trend to be 
repeat contributors... at least in my experience.

Just some ideas,
Isabel
-- 
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.


Re: Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-06 Thread Tianqi Chen
Thanks, Carin for bringing this topic up.

I have suggested this several times. But would like to do it again. One
approach toward building a more diverse community is to acknowledge the
fact that we want to encourage interactions in the Apache way beyond our
physical cycle.

One principle to toward that is to encourage PMC members only nominate
committers from other organizations, so it encourages interactions and
gives incentives overall for general participation. This way does not
prevent people from getting nominated (The PMC member who is non-colleague
will nominate the person with merit), and also encourage broad
participation (I can tell my fellows to participate in community discussion
because it is really up to other PMC members to propose them). Of course,
this requires some trust in the community toward positive community
building, which may or may not doable here. But nevertheless, I think it is
a good principle.

Tianqi

On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 9:13 AM Carin Meier  wrote:

> I wanted to kickoff a discussion about community building. There was an
> excellent blog post from the Apache Beam Community on this
> https://blogs.apache.org/comdev/entry/an-approach-to-community-building
>
> In it they wanted to improve their contributor/committer base in the
> following ways which resonate with our project as well, quoting from the
> article:
>
> 
> 1. We could use more committers to review all the code being contributed,
> in part due to recent departure of a few committers
>
> 2. We want our contributor-base (hence committer-base) to be more spread
> across companies and backgrounds. This is a core value of the Apache
> Software Foundation. In particular, the project's direction should not be
> dominated by any company, and the project should be able to survive the
> departure of a major contributor or all contributors from a particular
> employer. Eventually, we hope that our user base is active and diverse
> enough that this happens naturally. But we are not there yet, so instead we
> have to work hard to build our community around the software we already
> have.
> 
>
>
> They outlined some of the steps that they took to achieve positive results
> in the article, which I encourage everyone to read.
>
> Every community is different, however, so things that worked well in their
> community might not be as effective as in ours. I wanted to kick off a
> discussion for ideas that people had here on community building for MXNet.
>
> Ideas and thoughts on this are most welcome.
>
> - Carin
>


Call for Ideas and Approaches to Community Building

2019-03-02 Thread Carin Meier
I wanted to kickoff a discussion about community building. There was an
excellent blog post from the Apache Beam Community on this
https://blogs.apache.org/comdev/entry/an-approach-to-community-building

In it they wanted to improve their contributor/committer base in the
following ways which resonate with our project as well, quoting from the
article:


1. We could use more committers to review all the code being contributed,
in part due to recent departure of a few committers

2. We want our contributor-base (hence committer-base) to be more spread
across companies and backgrounds. This is a core value of the Apache
Software Foundation. In particular, the project's direction should not be
dominated by any company, and the project should be able to survive the
departure of a major contributor or all contributors from a particular
employer. Eventually, we hope that our user base is active and diverse
enough that this happens naturally. But we are not there yet, so instead we
have to work hard to build our community around the software we already
have.



They outlined some of the steps that they took to achieve positive results
in the article, which I encourage everyone to read.

Every community is different, however, so things that worked well in their
community might not be as effective as in ours. I wanted to kick off a
discussion for ideas that people had here on community building for MXNet.

Ideas and thoughts on this are most welcome.

- Carin