Re: Remove Caffe functionality
We cannot rely on #issue as a popularity score. No issue means either no one is using it or it's well documented and has no bug. Removing functionality is equivalent to API breaking, we should be very careful about it. I don't suggest the caffe2->onnx approach for 2 reasons: 1. it's complicated, people need to install pytorch and onnx, since caffe2 is merged into pytorch 2. both caffe2 and onnx are under rapid developing, it's hard to debug if users submitted issues to us If putting my amazon hat on, we must keep the caffe converter, since some major customers are using it. On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 1:42 PM, Afrooze, Sina wrote: > I think it'd be more sustainable long term to expect users to convert > caffe -> caffe2 ->onnx->mxnet rather than caffe->mxnet. Perhaps an MXNet > tutorial can show how to do this with minimum pain. - Sina > > > On 7/19/18, 1:27 PM, "Steffen Rochel" wrote: > > Hi Mu - do we have any indication how many users we do have on the > functionality? I see only two github issues from 2017 open. > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 12:54 PM Mu Li wrote: > > > Hi Anton, > > > > It's understandable that Caffe is old and its community is > shrinking. For > > this very reasons, existing caffe users are looking for > alternatives. The > > current converter is important for such users to transit to MXNet. It > > addresses an important issue that: how I can reuse my previous caffe > models > > in MXNet. > > > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Anton Chernov > > > wrote: > > > > > Dear community, > > > > > > Currently MXNet has a Caffe framework integration (translator and > > > converter) [1]. > > > > > > There were some issues discovered with it, for example some tests > were > > > failing [2]. Since we decided to remove the flaky tests and > proceed to > > > making them stable I propose completely removing this functionality > > > instead. > > > > > > There are multiple reasons to this: > > > > > > * Mind that this is Caffe 1 (not 2) > > > * Some people mentioned: "Caffe is soo 2015." > > > * Keeping functionality that is both unstable and old is a burden > for > > > maintenance. > > > * Keeping functionality that nobody needs is not necessary overall > > > > > > Please let me know your thoughts. > > > > > > Best > > > Anton > > > > > > [1] > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/commits/ > > > master/tools/caffe_converter/convert_caffe_modelzoo.py > > > [2] > > > http://jenkins.mxnet-ci.amazon-ml.com/blue/organizations/jenkins/ > > > incubator-mxnet/detail/master/1207/pipeline/ > > > > > > > > >
Re: Remove Caffe functionality
There’s more production systems still using Caffe 1 than you may realize. While it may be easy for individual developers to move off of Caffe, it will be quite some time before many production systems are off of it, because, as you can imagine, it’s much more difficult to change a live system without a good transition plan (which the caffe integration features do). (I can think of several major services at my day job that use Caffe). On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 1:42 PM Afrooze, Sina wrote: > I think it'd be more sustainable long term to expect users to convert > caffe -> caffe2 ->onnx->mxnet rather than caffe->mxnet. Perhaps an MXNet > tutorial can show how to do this with minimum pain. - Sina > > > On 7/19/18, 1:27 PM, "Steffen Rochel" wrote: > > Hi Mu - do we have any indication how many users we do have on the > functionality? I see only two github issues from 2017 open. > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 12:54 PM Mu Li wrote: > > > Hi Anton, > > > > It's understandable that Caffe is old and its community is > shrinking. For > > this very reasons, existing caffe users are looking for > alternatives. The > > current converter is important for such users to transit to MXNet. It > > addresses an important issue that: how I can reuse my previous caffe > models > > in MXNet. > > > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Anton Chernov > > > wrote: > > > > > Dear community, > > > > > > Currently MXNet has a Caffe framework integration (translator and > > > converter) [1]. > > > > > > There were some issues discovered with it, for example some tests > were > > > failing [2]. Since we decided to remove the flaky tests and > proceed to > > > making them stable I propose completely removing this functionality > > > instead. > > > > > > There are multiple reasons to this: > > > > > > * Mind that this is Caffe 1 (not 2) > > > * Some people mentioned: "Caffe is soo 2015." > > > * Keeping functionality that is both unstable and old is a burden > for > > > maintenance. > > > * Keeping functionality that nobody needs is not necessary overall > > > > > > Please let me know your thoughts. > > > > > > Best > > > Anton > > > > > > [1] > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/commits/ > > > master/tools/caffe_converter/convert_caffe_modelzoo.py > > > [2] > > > http://jenkins.mxnet-ci.amazon-ml.com/blue/organizations/jenkins/ > > > incubator-mxnet/detail/master/1207/pipeline/ > > > > > > > > >
Re: Remove Caffe functionality
I think it'd be more sustainable long term to expect users to convert caffe -> caffe2 ->onnx->mxnet rather than caffe->mxnet. Perhaps an MXNet tutorial can show how to do this with minimum pain. - Sina On 7/19/18, 1:27 PM, "Steffen Rochel" wrote: Hi Mu - do we have any indication how many users we do have on the functionality? I see only two github issues from 2017 open. On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 12:54 PM Mu Li wrote: > Hi Anton, > > It's understandable that Caffe is old and its community is shrinking. For > this very reasons, existing caffe users are looking for alternatives. The > current converter is important for such users to transit to MXNet. It > addresses an important issue that: how I can reuse my previous caffe models > in MXNet. > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Anton Chernov > wrote: > > > Dear community, > > > > Currently MXNet has a Caffe framework integration (translator and > > converter) [1]. > > > > There were some issues discovered with it, for example some tests were > > failing [2]. Since we decided to remove the flaky tests and proceed to > > making them stable I propose completely removing this functionality > > instead. > > > > There are multiple reasons to this: > > > > * Mind that this is Caffe 1 (not 2) > > * Some people mentioned: "Caffe is soo 2015." > > * Keeping functionality that is both unstable and old is a burden for > > maintenance. > > * Keeping functionality that nobody needs is not necessary overall > > > > Please let me know your thoughts. > > > > Best > > Anton > > > > [1] > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/commits/ > > master/tools/caffe_converter/convert_caffe_modelzoo.py > > [2] > > http://jenkins.mxnet-ci.amazon-ml.com/blue/organizations/jenkins/ > > incubator-mxnet/detail/master/1207/pipeline/ > > >
Re: Remove Caffe functionality
Hi Mu - do we have any indication how many users we do have on the functionality? I see only two github issues from 2017 open. On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 12:54 PM Mu Li wrote: > Hi Anton, > > It's understandable that Caffe is old and its community is shrinking. For > this very reasons, existing caffe users are looking for alternatives. The > current converter is important for such users to transit to MXNet. It > addresses an important issue that: how I can reuse my previous caffe models > in MXNet. > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Anton Chernov > wrote: > > > Dear community, > > > > Currently MXNet has a Caffe framework integration (translator and > > converter) [1]. > > > > There were some issues discovered with it, for example some tests were > > failing [2]. Since we decided to remove the flaky tests and proceed to > > making them stable I propose completely removing this functionality > > instead. > > > > There are multiple reasons to this: > > > > * Mind that this is Caffe 1 (not 2) > > * Some people mentioned: "Caffe is soo 2015." > > * Keeping functionality that is both unstable and old is a burden for > > maintenance. > > * Keeping functionality that nobody needs is not necessary overall > > > > Please let me know your thoughts. > > > > Best > > Anton > > > > [1] > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/commits/ > > master/tools/caffe_converter/convert_caffe_modelzoo.py > > [2] > > http://jenkins.mxnet-ci.amazon-ml.com/blue/organizations/jenkins/ > > incubator-mxnet/detail/master/1207/pipeline/ > > >
Re: Remove Caffe functionality
That is indeed a good reason. It would be still good to understand the amount of potential users moving from Caffe to MXNet considering the effort for maintenance. And if moving from Caffe to MXNet is an important topic, wouldn't it make sense to extend support to Caffe2 as well? чт, 19 июл. 2018 г. в 21:54, Mu Li : > Hi Anton, > > It's understandable that Caffe is old and its community is shrinking. For > this very reasons, existing caffe users are looking for alternatives. The > current converter is important for such users to transit to MXNet. It > addresses an important issue that: how I can reuse my previous caffe models > in MXNet. > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Anton Chernov > wrote: > > > Dear community, > > > > Currently MXNet has a Caffe framework integration (translator and > > converter) [1]. > > > > There were some issues discovered with it, for example some tests were > > failing [2]. Since we decided to remove the flaky tests and proceed to > > making them stable I propose completely removing this functionality > > instead. > > > > There are multiple reasons to this: > > > > * Mind that this is Caffe 1 (not 2) > > * Some people mentioned: "Caffe is soo 2015." > > * Keeping functionality that is both unstable and old is a burden for > > maintenance. > > * Keeping functionality that nobody needs is not necessary overall > > > > Please let me know your thoughts. > > > > Best > > Anton > > > > [1] > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/commits/ > > master/tools/caffe_converter/convert_caffe_modelzoo.py > > [2] > > http://jenkins.mxnet-ci.amazon-ml.com/blue/organizations/jenkins/ > > incubator-mxnet/detail/master/1207/pipeline/ > > >
Re: Remove Caffe functionality
Hi Anton, It's understandable that Caffe is old and its community is shrinking. For this very reasons, existing caffe users are looking for alternatives. The current converter is important for such users to transit to MXNet. It addresses an important issue that: how I can reuse my previous caffe models in MXNet. On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Anton Chernov wrote: > Dear community, > > Currently MXNet has a Caffe framework integration (translator and > converter) [1]. > > There were some issues discovered with it, for example some tests were > failing [2]. Since we decided to remove the flaky tests and proceed to > making them stable I propose completely removing this functionality > instead. > > There are multiple reasons to this: > > * Mind that this is Caffe 1 (not 2) > * Some people mentioned: "Caffe is soo 2015." > * Keeping functionality that is both unstable and old is a burden for > maintenance. > * Keeping functionality that nobody needs is not necessary overall > > Please let me know your thoughts. > > Best > Anton > > [1] > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/commits/ > master/tools/caffe_converter/convert_caffe_modelzoo.py > [2] > http://jenkins.mxnet-ci.amazon-ml.com/blue/organizations/jenkins/ > incubator-mxnet/detail/master/1207/pipeline/ >
Remove Caffe functionality
Dear community, Currently MXNet has a Caffe framework integration (translator and converter) [1]. There were some issues discovered with it, for example some tests were failing [2]. Since we decided to remove the flaky tests and proceed to making them stable I propose completely removing this functionality instead. There are multiple reasons to this: * Mind that this is Caffe 1 (not 2) * Some people mentioned: "Caffe is soo 2015." * Keeping functionality that is both unstable and old is a burden for maintenance. * Keeping functionality that nobody needs is not necessary overall Please let me know your thoughts. Best Anton [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/commits/master/tools/caffe_converter/convert_caffe_modelzoo.py [2] http://jenkins.mxnet-ci.amazon-ml.com/blue/organizations/jenkins/incubator-mxnet/detail/master/1207/pipeline/
