Re: [Mentors] Please sign off on Incubator status report

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 9:19 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/April2019 ...

Done - it looks like we stepped on each other's toes while editing but
should be good now.

I just replaced long URLs with http://s.apache.org/ short links.

-Bertrand

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Re: Re: [DISCUSS] Resolution for Apache NetBeans graduation to TLP

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 2:45 AM Eric Bresie  wrote:
> ...Just curious where are the “standard ASF guidelines” mentioned for 
> reference?..

I meant "bylaws", sorry, here:

https://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws

And also https://www.apache.org/foundation/governance/pmcs.html

-Bertrand

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Re: Google's Season of Docs now accepting organization applications

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Wed, Apr 3, 2019 at 9:26 AM Bertrand Delacretaz
 wrote:
> ...Note that the ASF is applying as an organization...

Change of plans!

Projects *can* Apply Individually for Google Season of Docs, see

https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/67e1c2e6041cff1e7f198b615407401f032795130e796adfaacf8071@%3Cdev.community.apache.org%3E

-Bertrand

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Re: Google's Season of Docs now accepting organization applications

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Wed, Apr 3, 2019 at 7:43 AM Antonio  wrote:
> Google's "Season of Docs" is now accepting organization applications...

Note that the ASF is applying as an organization, see

https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/da419dd64b00d00ba5db8ab9d31c4500ee18a18340f58d2f06ecb3bc@%3Cdev.community.apache.org%3E

-Bertrand

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Re: [DISCUSS] Resolution for Apache NetBeans graduation to TLP

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

the resolution looks mostly good to me, thanks!

With one paragraph to remove:

On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 3:59 PM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...RESOLVED, that the initial Apache NetBeans PMC be and hereby is tasked with
> the creation of a set of bylaws intended to encourage open development and
> increased participation in the Apache NetBeans Project; and be it further...

We don't ask for bylaws anymore, projects are welcome to create
community guidelines but that's not a requirement, they can also just
lean on the standard ASF guidelines.

-Bertrand

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Re: Which mentors want to continue on the Apache NetBeans roster?

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi

On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 10:55 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...You can see that Bertrand Delacratez, Ate Douma, and Daniel Gruno have
> indicated in one way or another that they would like to continue to be on
> the Apache NetBeans roster...

Confirmed, I'm fine with remaining on the PMC to help with community
related topics if desired.

I'm not planning to get more involved at the code level.

-Bertrand

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Re: [MENTORS] Partial/Patch releases

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 11:16 AM Laszlo Kishalmi
 wrote:
> ...Regarding that we are right now voting on the whole source code before
> releases, how shall we handle patch releases of a module?...

Assuming a patch is a set of source files it can be handled like any
other Apache Release.

Nothing says that an Apache Release needs to be a complete
application, it's just a set of source code files.

-Bertrand

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Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 8:48 AM Ate Douma  wrote:
> ...Unless one of the other mentors has a different view or is aware of more
> explicit guidelines in this, I suggest raising these questions at
> tradema...@apache.org instead

+1 and I suggest backing that discussion with a
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS ticket so as to
document what'sm being done and the conclusions.

-Bertrand

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Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache NetBeans Graduation to Top Level Project

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 10:01 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...The next step in the process is to vote on the resolution, here on this
> mailing list. That vote will begin in a separate thread, today, which again
> will be open for a minimum of 72 hours. If that vote succeeds, a similar
> vote will be started on the gene...@incubator.apache.org mailing list...

I don't think two votes for that are useful, nor required.

I suggest instead discussing a draft resolution here and then starting
a [DISCUSS] thread on general@incubator for graduation, followed by a
[VOTE] on graduation there, that includes the resolution.

The timing is infortunate, the next Board meeting is next Wednesday
which is probably too short to get all this done with the required
waiting periods, so graduation would actually happen at the April
Board meeting. But what's a month in a project's life? ;-)

-Bertrand

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Re: [VOTE] Apache NetBeans graduation to Top Level Project

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 4:00 PM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
>... -- for anyone surprised at this intervention, this is in response to the
> PPMC voting on new committers at the moment, which is a process that takes
> place on the @private mailing list...

And it's about one specific vote - again as Geertjan says details are
available to PPMC members in the archives of the private@ list.

As an incubation mentor let me restate that I don't see a general
problem and trust NetBeans to graduate to a nicely governed Apache
project.

-Bertrand

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Re: [VOTE] Apache NetBeans graduation to Top Level Project

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 11:48 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...Please take a minute to vote on whether or not Apache NetBeans should
> graduate to a Top Level Project...

Enthusiastic +1 with my mentor hat on, I think this podling has done a
great job and is ready to graduate!

-Bertrand

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Google Summer of Code 2019 Mentor Registration

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi NetBeans PPMC,

Google Summer of Code 2019 is on, and the ASF has been accepted as an
organization.

So NetBeans can host GSoC students, provided someone from the PPMC
agrees to be their mentor.

See the instructions below and if there are questions I should be able
to help, I've been a mentor a few times in the past.

If you're unsure, it's fine to sign up as a mentor already and we can
the discuss the details.

-Bertrand

-- Forwarded message -
From: Ulrich Stärk 
Date: Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 8:49 PM
Subject: Google Summer of Code 2019 Mentor Registration
To: 
Cc: d...@community.apache.org 


Dear PMCs,

I'm happy to announce that the ASF has made it onto the list of
accepted organizations for
Google Summer of Code 2019! [1,2]

It is now time for mentors to sign up, so please pass this email on to
your community and
podlings. If you aren’t already subscribed to
ment...@community.apache.org you should do so now else
you might miss important information.

Mentor signup requires two steps: mentor signup in Google's system [3]
and PMC acknowledgement.

If you want to mentor a project in this year's SoC you will have to

1. Be an Apache committer.
2. Request an acknowledgement from the PMC for which you want to
mentor projects. Use the below
template and *do not forget to copy ment...@community.apache.org*. We
will use the email adress you
indicate to send the invite to be a mentor for Apache.

PMCs, read carefully please.

We request that each mentor is acknowledged by a PMC member. This is
to ensure the mentor is in good
standing with the community. When you receive a request for
acknowledgement, please ACK it and cc
ment...@community.apache.org

Lastly, it is not yet too late to record your ideas in Jira (see
previous emails for details).
Students will now begin to explore ideas so if you haven’t already
done so, record your ideas
immediately!

Cheers,

The Apache GSoC Team

mentor request email template:

to: private@.apache.org
cc: ment...@community.apache.org
subject: GSoC 2019 mentor request for 

 PMC,

please acknowledge my request to become a mentor for Google Summer of
Code 2018 projects for Apache
.

I would like to receive the mentor invite to 





[1] https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/
[2] https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/6614885824200704/
[3] https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/

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Re: [MENTORS) ]Website for download link of Apache NetBeans (incubating) parent pom

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 3:13 PM Eric Barboni  wrote:
> ...I would like to create the announce mail but I think it's mandatory to have
> an website place where the download link resides...

Why not http://netbeans.apache.org/download ?

-Bertrand

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Re: [DISCUSS] Becoming a top level Apache project

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 11:59 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...Maturity assessment is here:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+Maturity+Model+Assessment+for+NetBeans
..

Thanks - as an incubation mentor I think this project is ready to
graduate, and is a great example of adapting to the Apache way of
doing things, working in a very open and constructive way. Happy to
see it graduate soon!

-Bertrand

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Re: How to access infra.chat now?

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 1:12 PM Jiří Kovalský  wrote:
> ...I am not sure
> I have my @apache.org e-mail which is required for account registration...

You need that address for several things, if needed you should be able
to redirect it as needed using https://id.apache.org/

-Bertrand

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Re: [VOTE] PMC chair for Apache NetBeans

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:39 PM Glenn Holmer  wrote:
> ...the question was whether it would be unseemly to have an Oracle
> employee as PMC chair. I think there's clear agreement that that's not
> the case

Yes, I think Geertjan has sufficiently demonstrated his independence
and understanding of the Apache's Fierce Independence From
Organizations principle ;-)

> ...And speaking of pedantism :) how long should a vote like this stay open?...

In general a vote needs to be open for at least 72 hours so that all
community members who want to vote can do so.

Then, you tally it and it's good to differentiate between "binding"
votes from people on the PPMC and "non-binding" ones from others who
are welcome to vote as well.

>From a formal point of view, only binding votes count, but if there's
a strong disconnect between those and the non-binding ones it's a bad
sign that should be addressed.

-Bertrand

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Re: Team in India

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 3:39 PM Christian Lenz  wrote:
> ...I already heard those names but I didn’t know which people are from 
> community like me,
> working in his freetime (for some I can guess, for some not) on features and 
> who are the
> people are still get paid from Oracle...

FWIW, putting full-time and casual contributors on an equal footing
(given similar merit) is a key aspect of Apache projects.

All decisions are made by the (P)PMC for the good of the project, with
everybody acting as themselves, as opposed to representing their
employer or any other organization.

One cannot say "we must do this because my employer needs it", you
need to have a valid technical justification, and sometimes the part
that your employer needs goes elsewhere as an additional module. Or
even better, the code is refactored to be more modular and allow for
variants that someone's employer requires.

But in the Apache project it's all about the project, with everyone
acting as an individual.

HTH,
-Bertrand (NetBeans incubation mentor)

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Re: [VOTE] PMC chair for Apache NetBeans

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 3:29 PM Glenn Holmer  wrote:
>
> This voting thread is to confirm Geertjan Wielenga as the first PMC
> chair of NetBeans as we leave incubation...

I was initially surprised to see this appear out of the blue but there
was a prior discussion here a few days ago indeed [1].

In that thread both Glenn and Geertjan were nominated and I understand
Glenn's +1 for Geertjan in this thread as him agreeing to step down
for now.

(sorry if this sounds pedantic, I just wanted to avoid the impression
that people can just be proposed without a prior "democratic debate"
;-)

So here's my +1 for Geertjan, I think your great understanding of
Apache principles makes you very well qualified!

-Bertrand

[1] 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/4d47458b5155ab2f6c189e6fda1321fa2348dea6c914e2d3dd1dcfa0@%3Cdev.netbeans.apache.org%3E

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[updates] too many requests to /dyn/closer.lua

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

See https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-2204 - if we got
that right, it looks like in certain cases the NetBeans updates system
might be causing out-of-bounds usage of apache.org infrastructure.

-Bertrand

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Re: About the NetBeans brand and our trademark

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 4:31 PM Jan Lahoda  wrote:
> ...I'd be much
> happier if the "convenience binary signed by the release manager, voted and
> approved by (P)PPMC and corresponding to an Apache NetBeans official
> release" would be used.)..

Of course - we just have to be careful how we use the word "release".

Maybe we should just use "release" for Apache Releases of source code
and "binary" for everything else.

-Bertrand

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Re: About the NetBeans brand and our trademark

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 1:44 PM Jan Lahoda  wrote:
> ...Frankly, I wonder if there's a chance to allow some "good" uses, like
"X
> with Apache NetBeans N" or a "Bundle of X and Apache NetBeans N", provided
> some basic conditions are met,...

Of course that's possible, as Geertjan says the NetBeans (P)PMC just needs
to clarify how things have to be named, to avoid confusion and especially
as you say make it crystal clear what comes from Apache NetBeans and what
does not.

> ...this would
> be distributing an official release of NetBeans, just packed together with
> something else

If it's binaries then no, it is not distributing an official release
because releases consist only of source code.

It's redistributing a convenience binary...I think we need to clarify at
the Apache level this difference, I recently proposed a two-level view on
releases and convenience binaries [1] which has not made its way to our
official docs yet but should help understand.

-Bertrand

[1]
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/01a64394c3996406d98904256ebdd46667bf73947983722e7ab57f50@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E

Re: About the NetBeans brand and our trademark

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:22 AM Emilian Bold  wrote:
>
> Is it really wise to create a separate FAQ from the Apache trademarks
> pages?...

If you keep it minimal I think it's good - you probably just need 2-3
good examples of naming for the types of things that people are doing
with NetBeans.

And of course point to the ASF trademarks pages and avoid duplicating
their information.

But that's a decision for this PPMC to make - whoever does the work
gets to decide, and that's not me ;-)

-Bertrand

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Re: [MENTORS] Re: Maturity Model Assessment and Incubator Status Report

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:17 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...Aside from the maturity assessment, which we’re working on,
> what’s the process for graduation...

https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html has a checklist.

One thing that I like to add is checking that the suggested PMC roster
is realistic, i.e. consists of people who are actually active.
https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/netbeans lists 85 PPMC members,
I suppose a number of them aren't really active.

To prune this roster I suggest that the PPMC asks all these people
(via this list, with an [IMPORTANT] subject line header maybe) to
confirm that they are active or intend to become active again soon.
And mention that if they don't reply within a given amount of time
they won't be included in the proposed PMC roster. Maybe just send the
proposed roster here and ask people to confirm.

If someone is removed and becomes active again after graduation it's
easy to re-add them with a PMC vote, so I think it's better to start
with a smaller but realistic list of PMC members.


-Bertrand

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Re: About the NetBeans brand and our trademark

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 4:32 PM Emilian Bold  wrote:
> ...we should be proactive about our trademark

Indeed. The simplest might be to create a FAQ about how people can use
the Apache NetBeans name in specific cases, like creating their own
installer or extension or creating an app built on NetBeans.

-Bertrand

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Re: FYI: binding / non binding

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 7:31 PM Neil C Smith  wrote:
> ...since the first votes we've had we've used (binding)
> and (non-binding) to indicate votes from PPMC members and not. Non-PPMC
> members can also vote. As far as I understand it's also about acting like
> we're ready to graduate...

+1 with my incubation mentor hat on, it's acting like "a PMC in training".

> ...We obviously still need IPMC votes to actually release once the PPMC vote
> passes (or not)...

Yes, and considering there's few IPMC members on this list it's easy
to differentiate.

-Bertrand

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Re: [PPMC] We need volunteers for NetBeans lists moderation (+ [MENTORS] , want to step down?)

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 10:55 AM Bertrand Delacretaz
 wrote:
> ..I'll wait 2-3 days for possible changes in the list of email addresses
> above and then make the change request...

I did this now, per mail to apm...@apache.org as per
https://www.apache.org/dev/infra-contact

-Bertrand

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Re: [MENTORS] Individual code donations

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 8:03 PM Laszlo Kishalmi
 wrote:
> ...So basically is a PR made by the "Licensor" enough to fulfill the
> requirements? Or there are additional ones like, e.g. the Licensor has
> to be an Apache Committer or anything else?...

New modules that are developed elsewhere and are being donated to
Apache have to to through the Intellectual Property clearance as per
https://incubator.apache.org/guides/ip_clearance.html

The recent Mojohaus utilities contribution was handled like that,
http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/netbeans-mojohaus-utilities.html
- search this list for more details on how that happened.

If all authors have an iCLA on file with Apache and declare that they
are authorized to make the contribution, no additional paperwork is
required.

If the contribution belongs to an external entity, a Software Grant
must be filed.

For future modules the best IMO is to create a whiteboard / drafts
code repository where people can experiment - if those contributions
are entirely developed at Apache there's no additional process.

-Bertrand

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Re: [PPMC] We need volunteers for NetBeans lists moderation (+ [MENTORS] , want to step down?)

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 1:56 PM Bertrand Delacretaz
 wrote:
> ...To have enough moderators, could we have a 2-3 additional volunteers
> for that task? You need to be a NetBeans PPMC member and
> https://reference.apache.org/pmc/ml has the general instructions...

Thank you very much to all who volunteered, I'm ready to create a jira
ticket for the following changes:

For all @netbeans.apache.org lists listed at
https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/netbeans :

Remove bdelacre...@apache.org as moderator

Add the following PPMC members for moderation:

matthiasblaes...@apache.org
sreim...@apache.org
junich...@apache.org
thilin...@apache.org
javajun...@apache.org
mkla...@apache.org

If someone wants to use a different address for moderation please let me know.

Hanasaki Jiji also volunteered, but I cannot find you in the NetBeans
PPMC members roster. If you're a PPMC member please let me know your
Apache ID, otherwise no big deal, we have plenty of volunteers anyway!

I'll wait 2-3 days for possible changes in the list of email addresses
above and then make the change request.

-Bertrand

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Re: [PPMC] We need volunteers for NetBeans lists moderation (+ [MENTORS] , want to step down?)

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 2:09 PM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> > In view of the project's graduation
>
> Just note that we haven't started that discussion yet, though will do so
> ASAP, the Apache NetBeans 10 release is taking all our time at the moment...

No problem, that was just a friendly subconscious nudge ;-)

-Bertrand

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[PPMC] We need volunteers for NetBeans lists moderation (+ [MENTORS] , want to step down?)

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi NetBeans PPMC members,

As per https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/netbeans it looks like
it's only Geertjan and mentors who are moderating the NetBeans mailing
lists for now.

In view of the project's graduation I'd like to step down and maybe
other mentors want do to that as well?

To have enough moderators, could we have a 2-3 additional volunteers
for that task? You need to be a NetBeans PPMC member and
https://reference.apache.org/pmc/ml has the general instructions.

Currently, with a good spam filter I get just a few relevant messages
per week to moderate so it's not a lot of work.

As per https://www.apache.org/dev/infra-contact we first need to
collect the list of people stepping down or volunteering and then send
a single email to apm...@apache.org with the changes - unless someone
here has karma to make those changes ourselves, I don't.

-Bertrand

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Re: JARs in platform cluster

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 11:45 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...If anyone (mentors, for example) have a better solution, please say so

I don't have a better suggestion, the release needs to be redone
indeed - it might be useful to have a build step that checks for (at
least) obvious unwanted binaries in the release to avoid such issues
in the future.

>... I estimate two weeks will be needed for voting from the point the vc4 is 
>created...

The theoretical minimum for a podling is 2x72 hours if people are
available to review and vote.

-Bertrand

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Re: Final steps for Apache NetBeans 10

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 3:27 PM Neil C Smith  wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 at 14:22, Bertrand Delacretaz
>  wrote:
> > Agreed, a minor filename change is fine
>
> Which suggests the different naming of a file pre and post vote is not
> the usual way this is handled in Apache projects?..

I haven't been actively involved in other projects doing release
candidates so I cannot tell, and I think removing a "vote candidate"
suffix is fine. Apache has about 300 projects so I suppose there's
some variance.

I'm only actively coding in Sling currently, which does *lots* of
releases of small modules, so we don't do release candidates - if a
release is rejected we just increase the version number as those are
cheap.

IMO people should always vote on file hashes/digests anyway, I always
include them in my votes - they are really what counts, though
confusing filename changes would be bad. But this case is not
confusing at all.

-Bertrand

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Re: Final steps for Apache NetBeans 10

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 2:01 PM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...This file will have the same hash as the current vc3 ZIP, the content is
> the same, i.e., it's not a new release (requiring a new vote etc) just
> stripping 'vc3' from the file name should be no problem -- we did similar
> things before...

Agreed, a minor filename change is fine, what counts is the digest of the file.

-Bertrand

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Releases need better digests than SHA-1

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

As Henk noted in the Incubator PMC vote thread [1], since August 18
Apache releases MUST be accompanied by a SHA-256 and/or SHA-512
checksum file and SHOULD NOT be accompanied by MD5 or SHA-1 checksum
file [2].

Can the release process be changed to accomodate that? I think for the
current release candidate it's fine to add the stronger digests
manually as I mentioned in that vote thread, but for future releases
this should be automated.

-Bertrand

[1] 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/02272396dddfe2565be2a45a279fde213b64abe0318cd0d82821317a@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
[2] https://www.apache.org/dev/release-distribution#sigs-and-sums

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Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Release Apache Netbeans 10.0 (incubating) [vote candidate 3]

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 8:29 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...In the IPMC vote, we will need two more IPMC members, since we need three
> of them in total...

I have finally voted in the IPMC vote thread, sorry that I took so long!

Note that the solution to mentors dragging their feet for voting is to
graduate, so the project is not dependent on IPMC votes anymore ;-)

-Bertrand

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Releasing RCs or not (was: [VOTE] Release Apache Netbeans 10.0...)

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 10:41 AM Neil C Smith  wrote:
> ...assuming we don't release any more rc's! ..

I haven't followed discussions about whether more RCs will be released
or not, so maybe this is not relevant but I just thought about how
other projects generally handle this.

It is common to have a pattern of unstable vs. stable version numbers,
so what's currently released as Release Candidates might use a
specific number scheme, like odd release numbers, and later move to an
even release number when the module is considered stable.

So version 11.x would be considered "unstable", meant to be used for
testing/beta purposes only, and version 12 is the same thing
functionally but considered stable. If there's a pattern, NetBeans can
even warn users in its splash screen if running an unstable version.

Just my two cents, again maybe this has been discussed already and I
missed it - but I think this is a common and convenient pattern.

-Bertrand

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[website] downloads page should point to Apache archives

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

Now that NetBeans has made several Apache releases, older ones are
automatically archived under
http://archive.apache.org/dist/incubator/netbeans

It would be good to have a link to that from
http://netbeans.apache.org/download/ in the "Previous NetBeans
versions" section, linking to both pre-Apache and Apache older
releases, clearly labeling both.

-Bertrand

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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Netbeans 10.0 (incubating) [vote candidate 1]

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 9:07 PM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...in the NetBeans
> ecosystem, a 'release candidate' is something different to what it is in
> Apache

Yes that's the key here, Netbeans is *releasing* things named "Release
Candidate", as one can see at
http://archive.apache.org/dist/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/
for example.

That's perfectly ok but then the candidates for those Release
Candidate Releases need to be named in a different way to avoid
confusion. I think Voting Candidates is less confusing than Release
Candidate Candidate...

There's no Apache policy behind that, just common sense , and if the
podling wants to revisit that later that's not a problem, but it's
better to avoid confusion.

-Bertrand

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Re: [mentors] New git repository for Javadoc

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 12:31 PM Neil C Smith  wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 at 10:00, Bertrand Delacretaz  
> wrote:
> >... IIUC the "create repository" action at https://gitbox.apache.org/ is
> > open to committers, did you try that?

> No, because we'd been told by infra to use
> https://selfserve.apache.org/ AFAIK?!  ...

Interesting, and that one requires ASF member or PMC chair
status...I'll talk to infra ;-)

Good that you are sorted out, thanks for taking care of it!

-Bertrand

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Re: [mentors] New git repository for Javadoc

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 9:46 PM Neil C Smith  wrote:
> ...Please could a mentor create a new git repository at 
> incubator-netbeans-docs...

IIUC the "create repository" action at https://gitbox.apache.org/ is
open to committers, did you try that?

-Bertrand

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Re: Apache officier or member for IP cleareance

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 11:18 AM Eric Barboni  wrote:
> ...I created the issue:  https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-1335
> I started the template also but it is not deployed yet...

thank you, I have commented at NETBEANS-1335

-Bertrand

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Re: [Mentors] lkishalmi permissions to Jenkins for Apache NetBeans

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 3:55 PM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...Please assign permissions to
> https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/group/hudson-jobadmin.
> See the above, apparently project mentors can do this...

Looks like I don't have karma to do that, I don't see a modify button
at https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/group/hudson-jobadmin

Mark Struberg, I think you are a PMC chair which I'm not, maybe you
have that karma?

-Bertrand

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Re: [Mentors] Please sign off on the October incubator report

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 9:49 PM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
>... OK, done, added a URL to the issue...

Ok, it would be good to briefly summarize at
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-16946 what you think is
"in limbo", the long block of pasted conversation there deserves a
summary I think.

-Bertrand

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Re: [Mentors] Please sign off on the October incubator report

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 6:23 PM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
...
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/October2018
...

I have signed off but IMO a statement that "DNS info has been handed
over by Oracle to Apache and is somehow in limbo now" needs to be
backed by a jira ticket number or something similar that's factual -
what did the podling ask, what was expected, what happened.

-Bertrand

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Re: [mentors] Including code under MIT license that is modified

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 4:17 PM Jan Lahoda  wrote:
> ...I have a question about code under the MIT license that is modified...

Do you mean that the code will be modified after being forked to the
NetBeans repository, or that the license has been modified?

If that's the former I think the "Treatment of Third-Party Works"
section at https://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html applies and
as per https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html it's fine to
redistribute MIT licensed code.

IMO it's best to put such code in a specific folder ("forks" or
"third-party" maybe) to point people to its origin as needed, and it
might require a mention in the NOTICE file - or not, that file should
stay minimal.

Note that in general it's much preferred to make improvements to the
original code rather than fork it, if that's possible - I suppose you
know that ;-)

If it's the latter and it's the MIT license that's been
modified...that's much more complicated.

-Bertrand

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Re: Apache officier or member for IP cleareance

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:31 AM Eric Barboni  wrote:
> ...As I'm not Apache officier or Apache member I have to ask for a volunteer
> Officier or Member to manage ip-clearance for donation for Apache NetBeans
> Maven stuff at mojo ...

I can help with this this week. To get the process started, could you
create a netbeans jira ticket to manage the donation?

To start the IP clearance we'll need the following information in that ticket:

-A link to the exact code being donated, ideally in the form of a zip
or tar archive including its digest so it's unambigous

-Information on who owns the code - if all authors have Apache iCLAs
on file that's fine, otherwise a Software Grant is needed from the
code owners

-A link to a vote where the NetBeans PPMC accepts the incoming code

If you can fill the template [1] with whatever relevant information
you have already that's helpful as well, and attach it there or
provide a link to it.

-Bertrand
[1] 
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/ip-clearance/ip-clearance-template.xml

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Re: [mentors] + PPMC, Apache Maturity Model self-assessment and graduation

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 11:05 AM Eric Barboni  wrote:
> ...To do maven release we need nb-repository-plugin to be donated first, then 
> we can modify the code
> to fulfill the needs to cope with Apache rules

Note that it's fine to use a non-Apache Maven plugin if its license allows it.

But maybe there's another reason why the plugin needs to be donated
first - I'll reply to the " Apache officier or member for IP
cleareance" thread to move this forward.

-Bertrand

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Re: [mentors] + PPMC, Apache Maturity Model self-assessment and graduation

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 8:38 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...I propose we revisit this discussion after Apache NetBeans 10 is released
> in November...

Works for me!

> ...So we could then focus on the TLP status during December...

Sounds good as a tentative goal. Your previous messages make me
worried about NetBeans staying comfortably in the Incubator for too
long, if there's clear goal like this I'm fine!

-Bertrand

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Re: [mentors] + PPMC, Apache Maturity Model self-assessment and graduation

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 7:40 AM Mark Struberg  wrote:
> ...Probably we should go forward and extend Geertjans list of high-level 
> topics which more input from the community...

Sounds good to me provided someone is willing to drive this!

-Bertrand

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Re: [mentors] + PPMC, Apache Maturity Model self-assessment and graduation

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

(sorry for the late reply, overloooked these responses initially)

On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...I think it would be best to wait until we have done/figured out the
> following...

I don't think any of the points listed below should block graduation.

Graduating to an Apache top-level project does not mean that NetBeans
is perfect technically or even that everything has been moved to
Apache - it "just" means that the project mentors and Incubator PMC
think that the project can operate without the guidance of the
Incubator PMC from now on, and stand on its own *from a community
point of view* and continue the transition.

All the items list below are technical, there's nothing that points to
a community issue.

Staying in the Incubator for too long blocks mentors from moving on to
other podlings, uses other Incubator resources unnecessarily and also
means delays when doing releases and in other processes which
currently need to involve the Incubator PMC (adding committers and
PPMC members, etc.).

I strongly suggest reconsidering and moving forward with the
graduation. I am willing to stay on the new PMC, at least for a while,
to help sort out the remaining process-related things.

-Bertrand

>
> 1. all our domains (netbeans.org, planetnetbeans.org, etc) running via
> Apache infrastructure: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-16946
>
> 2. all documentation, i.e., tutorials, etc, moved onto Apache
> infrastructure (coming with 3rd donation, in progress)
>
> 3. a clear direction for the location of plugins.netbeans.org
>
> 4. NetBeans javadoc running on Apache infrastructure:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-1176
>
> 5. a solution to the installer question -- i.e., once we figure out how to
> create installers for all operating systems, figure out how they can be
> distributed...

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Re: Apache officier or member for IP cleareance

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 3:05 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...Can you write this e-mail again, explaining exactly what you need, but
> include the word 'Mentors' in the subject line,...

I have noticed this request, currently traveling, I should have time
to help early next week unless someone beats me to it.

-Bertrand

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[mentors] + PPMC, Apache Maturity Model self-assessment and graduation

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi Netbeans mentors + PPMC.

I feel that NetBeans is getting ready to graduate, and would welcome
other opinions on this (either here or on the private@ list if really
needed), especially from mentors.

I think there are more donations upcoming but as the NetBeans PPMC has
demonstrated it knows how to handle those I don't think they are an
obstacle to graduating, also as the trademarks transfer is complete or
about to be completed.

For the PPMC, one useful step towards that is creating a
self-assessment based on
https://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html
.
The "How To Use" sections links to examples. Could someone from the
PPMC take the lead on that? This can happen in parallel with
graduation discussions.

-Bertrand

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Re: [DISCUSS] NetBeans brand and domain transition to Apache

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 8:38 PM Will Hartung  wrote:
> ...So, what it's the definition of distribution? Hosted on Apache
> infrastructure?...

Yes that's my understanding. Apache artifacts are distributed via our
mirroring system [1] and that's only for software that we produce.

OTOH if the legacy NetBeans binaries are elsewhere, linking to them is
fine provided there's no confusion as to what they are. I think best
is to have a single link to a "non-Apache release archive" page.

OpenOffice has a similar situation, see the bottom of
https://openoffice.apache.org/downloads.html which links to
https://www.openoffice.org/download/legacy/index.html

-Bertrand

[1] https://www.apache.org/info/how-to-mirror.html

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Re: [VOTE] Accept donation Mojohaus NetBeans Maven Utilities

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 12:15 PM Eric Barboni  wrote:
> ...Milos Kleint one of the main contributor is willing to donate
> contribution to the Apache Netbeans project...

Note that whoever owns the code has to sign an Apache Software Grant
[1] - if Milos feels he can do that, all is good. If there are
multiple contributors without a clear ownership definition it would be
good to ask them if they agree, on that project's communication
channel.

-Bertrand

[1] https://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt

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Re: Migrating NetBeans Mojohaus Maven related ecosystem to Apache NetBeans

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 10:07 AM Eric Barboni  wrote:
> ...What are the steps needed to migrate if it's possible to do so ?...

If the PPMC accepts the donation, the process is described at
http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/

Basically, whoever donates code which has not been developed at Apache
needs to sign a Software Grant form, as was done for the Oracle code
donations, https://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt and the
above process is just the (P)PMC doing due diligence on that.

-Bertrand

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Re: Google Analytice and netbeans.apache.org

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 2:59 PM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...if we go ahead with this, we'll need
> something like this too:
>
> http://jackrabbit.apache.org/jcr/privacy-policy.html

I think linking to
https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/privacy.html should be good
enough, IIRC that Jackrabbit variant was created earlier, but the
standard one is preferred.

-Bertrand

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Re: [DISCUSS] NetBeans brand and domain transition to Apache

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 12:35 PM Ate Douma  wrote:
> ...the
> answer below from Roman *only* concerns allowing *linking* to
> prior official releases. That is very different from *distributing*
> such prior release artifacts from apache.org, which isn't allowed...

I agree with Ate here, it's fine to link to prior non-Apache releases
(with suitable disclaimers) but we cannot distribute them from
apache.org domains.

-Bertrand

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Re: [DISCUSS] NetBeans brand and domain transition to Apache

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 11:28 PM Will Hartung  wrote:
> ...Is it even possible for the Apache foundation to distribute older artifacts
> if they have, for example, GPL licensed parts within them?...

No, only Apache Releases (and the corresponding convenience binaries)
can be distributed from apache.org, if non-Apache releases need to
stay up a different solution will be required.

-Bertrand

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Re: org.netbeans name prefix for artifacts and Java packages (was: [DISCUSS] NetBeans brand and domain transition to Apache)

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 3:41 PM Andreas Sewe  wrote:
> ...If you switch just the groupId from org.netbeans to
> org.apache.netbeans (but leave artifactIds and package names intact),
> then this is relatively painless, thanks to so-called relocation POMs [1]

Yes, and that's something that happens frequently.

-Bertrand

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Re: [DISCUSS] NetBeans brand and domain transition to Apache

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 1:46 PM Neil C Smith  wrote:
> ...The DNS settings
> could still point back to Oracle hosting for all, then select,
> subdomains

Yes - I think the only requirement at this point is that the
*ownership* of the domains is transferred to Apache, moving the
content is a separate concern.

-Bertrand

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org.netbeans name prefix for artifacts and Java packages (was: [DISCUSS] NetBeans brand and domain transition to Apache)

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 1:01 PM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...A related knock-on effect is that org.netbeans will be available for Apache
> NetBeans Maven archetypes, since the netbeans.org domain will belong to
> Apache...

I suppose you mean Maven *artifacts*.

Note that AFAIK NetBeans should use the org.apache prefix for all Java
package names, Maven artifacts etc.

If there are strong reasons for NetBeans to keep using org.netbeans in
places (after an understandable transition phase) those should be
listed somewhere so a discussion can begin.

-Bertrand

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Re: Agenda and doodle for Virtual Apache NetBeans Meeting 2

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 2:16 PM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...Notes...

Thank you! Having notes and links here allows everyone to participate,
without having to listen to long recordings.

-Bertrand

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Re: Agenda and doodle for Virtual Apache NetBeans Meeting 2

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 1:45 PM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...we discussed current status of Apache NetBeans, followed by some new ideas
> and discussions:..

Are you planning to share written notes as well?

It would be good to have an overview here of what was discussed as
well as any action items that might have been agreed upon.

-Bertrand

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Re: Protecting the Apache NetBeans trademark (was: Netbeans 9.0 mac installer forever lost?)

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 1:31 PM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...Will try to track this (completely random) person (who AFAIK I don’t know
> at all, which is great, the more new people involved the better) down...

GitHub makes it easy, just send a pull request ;-)

-Bertrand

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Protecting the Apache NetBeans trademark (was: Netbeans 9.0 mac installer forever lost?)

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:55 PM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
...
> https://github.com/Webbiefourth/Apache-Netbeans-9.0-MacOSX ...

Note that in terms of Apache trademarks "Apache-Netbeans-9.0-MacOSX"
is not an appropriate name for something that's not from Apache.

It should rather be called something like "MacOSX Launcher for Apache
NetBeans" which removes the possible confusion.

It's a small thing in this case, but if the NetBeans (P)PMC does not
actively protect their trademark in general it can be much harder to
defend it if a more serious case comes up - which is more likely for a
project that NetBeans which has a large audience than for some of our
obscure Apache infrastructure projects that are hard to explain to my
grandmother.

There's more detail at

http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/

For now, if the owner of that GitHub repository reads this it would be
nice to change the name (no big deal - sorry that you are being used
as an example for such a minor thing) and NetBeans (P)PMC members
please take note of the importance of protecting your trademark.

-Bertrand

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Re: Vote open for 5 days? (was: Fw: I have started the vote thread on general@ incubator mailing list)

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 3:20 PM Emilian Bold
 wrote:
> .."At least 72hours" sounds useful in retrospect as it's open-ended. But otoh 
> I assumed the voting
> window has to be predictable because people might schedule to verify the 
> release later on... only
> to find out the voting closed already!...

Well, if they don't do it within 72 hours they might miss it and
that's fine IMO, it means others have validated the release and found
it good.

Don't get me wrong, 5 days works as well but we see now that it does
slow down things - probably not an issue for a "big" release like this
one but in general I think it's good to move fast if you can.

-Bertrand

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Vote open for 5 days? (was: Fw: I have started the vote thread on general@ incubator mailing list)

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 2:21 PM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:

>... However, the vote is open for 5 days, starting from 2018/07/24 05:27:03
> CET, which means on Sunday, 29 July...

Weird - I see the vote message [1] says "the vote is open for 5 days",
why is that?

Votes are usually open for "at least 72 hours" meaning that you can
tally them as soon as you have enough votes and 72 hours have elapsed.

Saying "at least" means you can also leave the vote running if there
are not enough votes.

So, why 5 days?

-Bertrand

[1] 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ab58e2c75d260a91851d8def412b1ef6648aaf4f690b205aaaf53924@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E

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Re: [Mentors] Advice on branding of Apache NetBeans book

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 5:20 AM Emilian Bold
 wrote:
...
> I think you start with reading https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ ..

Yes and there's a specific section for books,
https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#books

-Bertrand

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Re: Apache NetBeans Apress Book

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 10:16 AM Delfi Ramirez  wrote:
> ...I understand that each collaborator will arrange and make a cession, 
> written and signed, of his
> contribution to the community, and of course will have permission of his/her 
> contractor – if there
> is such a personal scenario – on behalf the community

FWIW the Apache collaboration model enables this, so if the NetBeans
(P)PMC decides that the book content is just part of the NetBeans
project all these mechanisms are available.

The unknown in this case is whether a book producer would agree to
print that book, as the Apache License allows anybody to do that (with
due credit etc. and respecting Apache trademarks) so they wouldn't be
protected against competition.

And authors wouldn't make money (do they anyway?) but "just" get
reputation by having contributed to that effort. Which might be worth
more, actually, even from a business point of view ;-)

-Bertrand

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Re: Apache NetBeans Apress Book

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 6:25 PM Delfi Ramirez  wrote:
> ...Money you pay for a physical book covers the expenses of print, logistics 
> ( storage , delivering)
> and marketing. It also covers the licenses and , if accorded, the rights of 
> the publisher

There are many examples of tech books available for free online, and
also available for a fee in printed form.

For example:

  https://producingoss.com and http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596007591.do
  https://git-scm.com/book/ and
https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Git-Scott-Chacon/dp/1484200772

-Bertrand

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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache NetBeans 9.0 (incubating) [vote candidate 3]

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 11:40 AM Emilian Bold
 wrote:
> ...Build artifacts available here:
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-vc3

+1, binding, IPMC, for releasing
SHA1(incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-source.zip)=
ed2098c173460ec81f05635055066da06a7ea82b

I have not looked at the convenience binaries.

Signatures and digests are ok

LICENSE, NOTICE, DISCLAIMER look good to me.

DEPENDENCIES looks good and includes clarifications for optional or
compile-time only GPL dependencies.

I didn't find any problematic binary files in the archive, although
they are many of them, using the "file" command to analyze them, at
https://gist.github.com/bdelacretaz/4d6daef16e3b4d373e343c8ccafbc6a1

Build with "ant" and then "ant tryme" passes and starts the IDE.

Build with "ant rat" passes.

The exclusions list at nbbuild/rat-exclusions.txt is long but well commented.

Congrats on the work done!

-Bertrand

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Re: [Mentors][Windows] Updating Windows launchers

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi Jan,

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 11:53 AM Jan Lahoda  wrote:
> ...Any idea how to move that forward? It would be  awesome if we could compile
> our launchers and not use the legacy ones

Doesn't LEGAL-390 answer your concerns?

IANAL but it sounds like with the right information in your LICENCE
file, maybe something like "the launcher binaries are redistributed
according to https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/libstdc++/manual/license.html;
it should be ok to redistribute those binary launchers.

Assuming that's done as part of convenience binaries as opposed to the
NetBeans source code release.

-Bertrand

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Re: [DISCUSS] Merging back netcat@ into the dev@ mailing list

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 9:34 AM Luca Mambretti
 wrote:
> ...During the previous programs there were weekly reports on activities, 
> measurement on traffic
> on the mailing list and various surveys to check the status of the release 
> train in the allotted
> time-frame; ...

I know little about how NetCAT works but from an Apache perspective of
asynchronous collaboration, jira tickets might be a good way to
coordinate the NetCAT reviews: create a ticket for each main part of
the review (per-tribe?), people can create sub-tickets for more fine
grained coordination and it's easy to get an overview on activity and
status via jira queries. And NetCAT jira tickets can be linked to
development tickets which can help make both teams feel more united.

Apache projects rarely have set deadlines for releases, as those can
go against quality and people usually work on their own schedule as
opposed to being paid to do things on time. Such loose but efficient
coordination mechanisms work very well for that and quality as opposed
to artificial deadlines then drive the releases.

This is just my 2 cents, as mentioned I know little about NetCAT, but
I do know a bit about how things work in loosely coupled Apache
projects, and I feel that Apache NetBeans is getting more loosely
coupled - which does have advantages but might require some
adjustments.

-Bertrand (NetBeans incubation mentor)

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Re: [DISCUSS] Merging back netcat@ into the dev@ mailing list

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 11:13 PM Sven Reimers  wrote:
> ...3. How about ensuring that NetCAT has a representative as part of the
> (i/P)PMC - then those people can just vote -1 on a release and we do not
> need any other additional means

Note that release votes are majority votes, as per
https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html vetoes only exist for
code changes.

The way a PMC usually takes the "voice of the community" into account
is to listen to it and wherever possible act accordingly, but it's not
a formal requirement.

One way to handle this might be to wait for NetCAT to approve a
release before the PMC declares it final, and use alpha/beta etc.
candidates before that - but it's the (P)PMC who's in charge with
that, from a formal point of view.

-Bertrand

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Re: [DISCUSS] Merging back netcat@ into the dev@ mailing list

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 12:46 AM Antonio  wrote:
>... Has anybody asked _them_ about this merge? What do they think?...

The original post in this thread was cross-posted to both dev and netcat lists.

-Bertrand

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Re: [DISCUSS] Merging back netcat@ into the dev@ mailing list

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 11:15 PM Emilian Bold
 wrote:
> ...The dev@ mailing list is our Apache 'central square' so to speak and even
> if we don't work on the same particular issue, we should get to know
> each-other, at least by name

My recommendation as an incubation mentor is indeed to bring netcat
traffic on the dev list, in the spirit of having a single community -
systematically using a [netcat] subject line header for (visual or
machine) filtering.

Actually, given the many modules that make up NetBeans, it might be a
good idea to use [subject line tags] more extensively to help focus
conversations. The OpenStack dev list is a great example of that [1].

-Bertrand

[1] http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-June/thread.html

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Adjusting the PMC members list before graduation (was: [Mentors] Status of incubator.apache.org/projects/netbeans.html)

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:03 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...when we become a top level project, we should ask each
> individual person who is a committer/PPMC member about how seriously
> they'll be involved in the top level project...

One thing that worked well for other podlings is to make a call, when
graduation is about to happen, about who wants to stay on the top
level project's PMC.

Make a call on this list (Bcc to the private list), indicate that
whoever's on the PPMC is invited to be on the PMC (if that's the idea)
and wait about a week for answers.

Add to the new PMC roster *only* the people who reply, indicating by
that that they are following the action and plan to stay involved.

If other PPMC members show up later, during or after graduation, it's
easy to add them to the PMC.

-Bertrand

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Re: New blog entry: "Apache NetBeans at FOSS Backstage 2018"

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 10:53 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> https://blogs.apache.org/netbeans/entry/apache-netbeans-at-foss-backstage
> It was a good time. :-)

Indeed! Thanks for the blog post and it was great finally meeting you in person!

-Bertrand

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Re: reviews.apache.org - git integration?

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 7:46 PM Matthias Bläsing
 wrote:
> ...I'm now up to three accounts I need just for
> apache... At that point my happiness dropped...

The ASF infra team is working on having everything driven by LDAP, but
that takes some time. Last I heard of it, Jira and Confluence should
be done later this year.

-Bertrand

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Re: Committers vs. PPMC members

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 6:22 PM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...I
> noticed that the people we thought we had voted on as PPMC members are
> listed as committers

In the future, it's best to explicitly mention "electing someone as
PPMC member and committer" when electing people on the NetBeans
private list, to avoid any ambiguities.

-Bertrand

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Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Emilian Bold  wrote:
> ...In practice we never saw a patch being discussed on the mailing list...

Maybe you're too young for that ;-)

-Bertrand

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Re: Congratulations! Your talk has been accepted for FOSS Backstage

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 11:18 AM, Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
>... Who is able to be there and/or to speak at the session with me?...

My talk is at the same time than yours, too bad! But looking forward
to meeting you in person, finally.

-Bertrand

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Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 3:55 PM, Emilian Bold  wrote:
> The frog is boiled slowly...

The ASF insists on all our repositories being mirrored on servers that
we control [1] exactly for such reasons: being dependent on GitHub or
any other commercial service would not work for our "we'll still be
around in 50 years" mission.

GitHub is very useful to our projects but if it were to go away of if
their terms became unacceptable we can drop it and use something else,
without losing any history.

I hope situations like this help explain why the ASF is so picky about
such things, like keeping full control on our code and data.

-Bertrand

[1] https://gitbox.apache.org/

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Re: [Mentors][Windows] Updating Windows launchers

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi Jan,

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 12:40 PM, Jan Lahoda  wrote:
> ...-the launchers include jni.h - I suspected using jni.h from (Open)JDK might
> be troublesome; but luckily, there is Apache Harmony, and their jni.h works
> fine (or seems so, at least). So, I've included the jni.h and jni_types.h
> from Apache Harmony, and the launchers are compiled against them. Given
> this is under Apache License, Version 2.0, I assume that is OK, right?...

Yes, including code from another Apache project is pefectly fine.

> ...-the launchers use libstdc++ (and libgcc, when compiled using gcc) and are
> built using MinGW. Looking at "GCC RUNTIME LIBRARY EXCEPTION", this should
> be OK, right?...

GPL build tools are fine as long as you do not redistribute them.

As for libstdc++ which I assume is a required GPL dependency, if you
think there is a valid exception it should be documented at
http://apache.org/legal/resolved.html or derived from information
found there, or maybe in a LEGAL jira ticket that clarifies things.

It's good to include all this information in your jira ticket so we
can answers any questions about it with the URL of that ticket.

HTH,
-Bertrand

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Re: [Mentors] Assembling NOTICE for ASF dependencies

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 9:17 PM, Matthias Bläsing
 wrote:
> ...https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-827 ...

I have commented there.

-Bertrand

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Re: NetBeans celebrates 1.7 million active users

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 7:51 PM, Jiří Kovalský  wrote:
> ...People can opt-out being counted if they set Check Interval for
> Automatically Check for Updates option to "Never" and then do not check
> NetBeans Update Center manually

I'm not a specialist on these things but I think for an Apache project
you want opt-in, especially now that GDPR is with us.

It's fine to beg the user to opt in, in a friendly way, but for me
that must be an explicit agreement - maybe linked to the useful update
features which bring actual value to the user.

-Bertrand

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Re: [Mentors][Windows] Updating Windows launchers

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi Jan,

On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 8:36 AM, Jan Lahoda  wrote:
>... NetBeans has native Windows launchers to start on Windows, and we needed to
> update them. So I tried here:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/573 ...

Can you summarize what the mentor-related issue is? Distributing
binaries instead of source code? Something else?

-Bertrand

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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 1:12 PM, Neil C Smith  wrote:
> ...Yes, Emi suggested elsewhere we might use a specific vote suffix instead -
> eg. rc1-vote1 which might be a good idea, if we need one at all?!..

Each VOTE thread must be about one specific set of artifacts, clearly
identified.

If NetBeans releases are named RC something, the candidates for them
should use a different identifier for clarity. VC- for voting
candidate or something. And the clarification needs to be at a
persistent URL to avoid having to re-explain every time.

As for now, I'm still confused...is this VOTE still ongoing, and is it
about the artifacts found at
https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1/

?

-Bertrand

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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

(dropping general@incubator.a.o - votes happen on the NetBeans dev
list before moving there)

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 11:57 PM, Emilian Bold
 wrote:
>> b) Justin provided detailed feedback on the 9.0-Beta-RC3 on (possible)

> I have created 26 NETBEANS JIRA issues with Justin's remarks and we'll go 
> through them before the final 9.0 release

I'm totally confused now.

This threads mentions RC1 and the above comment RC3.

If a new candidate was created, you need a new VOTE thread.

Which are those jira tickets, do you have an URL for them?

Is it still useful to vote on this release or has it been canceled?

-Bertrand

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Re: ASF Member Required (was Fwd: Re: [SITE] Website Checker Question (images))

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 9:01 PM, Antonio  wrote:
> Should be ready now

Ok, done, details at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-636

-Bertrand

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Re: ASF Member Required (was Fwd: Re: [SITE] Website Checker Question (images))

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 10:13 PM, Antonio  wrote:
> ...In order to improve our website checks [1] we are required [2] to have our
> logo (212 px wide, attached)...

This list strips attachment, could you attach the logo to
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-636 ?

-Bertrand

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Re: NetBeans cash bounties

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 11:45 PM, William L. Thomson Jr.
 wrote:
> ...which I why I also suggested taking it to the Apache
> Foundation as a global issue. All Apache projects could benefit from
> such. No reason to limit to just Netbeans...

I don't think the ASF can ever get involved in paying bounties for
development. It goes against our very strong "fierce independence from
companies and organizations" principle, and might be problematic with
our 501(c)3 status as well.

That being said, the best place to discuss such things ASF-wide is the
dev@community.a.o list, https://community.apache.org/

-Bertrand

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Re: NetBeans cash bounties

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 6:10 PM, John Muczynski  wrote:
> ...Just because something has a bounty doesn't mean that somehow it can bypass
> the normal commit process...

Exactly.

Many Apache committers are paid to work on our projects but that
doesn't allow them to say "I need this commit to go in because my
employer needs it".

To get my commits in, I need to find a technical reason why they add
value to the project.

It is exactly the same if commits come from people paid to work on
NetBeans by bounties.

-Bertrand

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Re: NetBeans cash bounties

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 9:22 AM, Christian Lenz  wrote:
> Is this question more about finding and Fixing Bugs that can harm user? Like 
> exploitable Bugs?...

Note that for security vulnerabilities the ASF security process must
be followed, that's at http://www.apache.org/security/committers.html

-Bertrand

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Re: Automatic website publishing

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Antonio  wrote:
> ...I think we should document that somewhere (in the website? ;-)) ...

For me the natural place to look for website publishing instructions
is the README at
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans-website

-Bertrand

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Re: NetBeans cash bounties

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Emilian Bold
 wrote:
> ...I've been thinking of posting some bounties for the NetBeans annoyances I 
> encounter...

See https://community.apache.org/committers/funding-disclaimer.html
for a disclaimer that's been used in the past for such things. You'll
need something like to make it clear that the bounties come from you
and not from Apache NetBeans.

-Bertrand

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Re: [PMC Chairs] Jenkins job permissions

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 1:01 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
<bdelacre...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...I've asked for johnmcdonnell and wadechandler to be added as well...

And that's done now.

-Bertrand

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Re: [PMC Chairs] Jenkins job permissions

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, John McDonnell
 wrote:
> I'm familiar with Jenkins also

Ok, I've asked for johnmcdonnell and wadechandler to be added as well.

-Bertrand

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Re: [PMC Chairs] Jenkins job permissions

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 10:58 AM, Antonio  wrote:
> ...here you're answering these technical questions. :-)

I'm also an Incubation Mentor here ;-)

> Congratulations, Bertrand!!..

Thank you!

-Bertrand

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Re: [PMC Chairs] Jenkins job permissions

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 9:47 AM, Antonio  wrote:
> In order to do that I'd need a "PMC Chair" to give me permissions to create
> a Jenkins job (as per [2]) through the whimsy tool [3] (apache id 'vieiro')...

I'm not a PMC chair myself but we can ask the Incubator PMC for help.

Before we do that, are other committers willing to get the same permissions?
You need to be familiar with Jenkins of course.

> We need to set up a Jenkins job to publish our website automatically
> whenever something changes (see INFRA-16157 [1])

FWIW jobs which are restricted to run on slaves having the
git-websites label can push to an asf-site branch, you probably don't
need more than that.

https://www.apache.org/dev/project-site.html has general information
and http://plc4x.incubator.apache.org/developers/website.html is a
recent example of that.

-Bertrand

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