Re: [QUESTION] Usability of Non-Optional Java Dependencies

[Patricia Shanahan]

The argument for Win64 is that there may be many people who know and 
care little about Java, but have it already installed for reasons other 
than AOO. Those installations are much more likely to be Win64 than x86.


Because AOO is x86 only it has to ask for an x86 JRE, even if there is a 
perfectly good Win64 JRE already installed.


I have no idea of the frequency of that situation.

On 11/2/2015 2:14 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:

On 01/11/2015 Damjan Jovanovic wrote:

1. We don't have a Win64 version of AOO available for download.


This has never been a major request from our users, and also technically
speaking the benefits a user would gain by running a 64-bit version are
not so big. Sure, it look modern and it is good for marketing, and it is
nice to have, but better OOXML compatibility (for example) would make
many more users happy.


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Re: [QUESTION] Usability of Non-Optional Java Dependencies

[Kay Schenk]

On 10/29/2015 02:22 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
> On 10/29/2015 12:20 PM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 7:44 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
>> 
>> wrote:
> ...
>>> Three paths come to mind.
>>>
>>>   A. Remove the Java dependencies.
>>>
>>
>> Impossible. JDBC drivers for example, are the lifeblood of Base.
>>
> 
> It depends on what you mean by "Impossible". For example, the
> existence of the JDBC drivers proves that it is possible to
> implement interfaces with all the capabilities of JDBC without
> depending on it. On the other hand, it may be impossible to
> implement the JDBC features Base needs in a reasonable time with the
> available resources.
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> 1. What is the cleanest, lowest risk, way to get from here (Java
> dependent) to there (Java independent) in each area?
> 
> 2. How much work would it be?
> 
> 3. Does AOO have that much development effort available, and if so
> is it the best use of that effort?

All great questions! ...with no answers right at the moment.

It would be great if someone could research this...really! I imagine
all manners of interfaces have come a long way since the initial
decision to use Java in some parts of the OpenOffice code.

> 
> If we continue with optional Java, I hope making it more convenient
> and unobtrusive for users, it is not an all-or-nothing situation.
> Each feature that is converted is another feature for non-Java users.

Absolutely! I've stayed out of the "which" or "why" Java discussion
so far. At this point, to me it *might* be a requirement we could do
without, or, as Damjan suggested, it might be great to use more of
it. Right now, without further research, I'm not convinced either way.



-- 

MzK

“The journey of a thousand miles begins
 with a single step.”
  --Lao Tzu



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Re: MSI installer

[Daiddel Borges]

That's not what I was asking for? I asked if it were possible to get a
ApacheOpenOffice.msi installer..



Thanks.
Regards


*Daiddel Borges*
*IT Services Manager, OMG National*
Tel: 800-789-4619 x 1134
dbor...@omgnational.com | www.omgnational.com
  


On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 4:15 PM, Rory O'Farrell  wrote:

> On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 13:39:26 -0500
> Daiddel Borges  wrote:
>
> > Any way to get an .msi installer for deployment purposes?
> >
> >
>
> There are links to various editions of Microsoft installer at
> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/942288
>
>
> --
> Rory O'Farrell 
>

Re: MSI installer

[Daiddel Borges]

Thank you. Very helpful.. Appreciated.



Thanks.
Regards


*Daiddel Borges*
*IT Services Manager, OMG National*
Tel: 800-789-4619 x 1134
dbor...@omgnational.com | www.omgnational.com
  


On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Regina Henschel 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Daiddel Borges schrieb:
>
>> Any way to get an .msi installer for deployment purposes?
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> *Daiddel Borges*
>> *IT Services Manager, OMG National*
>> Tel: 800-789-4619 x 1134
>> dbor...@omgnational.com | www.omgnational.com
>>   
>> 
>>
>>
> When you have unpacked the downloaded file (break installation after
> unpacking), you will see openoffice412.msi. You can use it for a full
> installation where you want. It will unpack the *.cab and register
> OpenOffice unless you set something different using parameters.
>
> When you have made an administrative installation, the folder on the
> server will have a openoffice412.msi too. A client can use it, to get its
> own installation.
>
> The methods have not changed, so you can likely use guides, which were
> written for OOo3.x. But I have never done such deployment and therefore I
> cannot say whether e.g.
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Administration_Guide/Windows
> is still valid, or whether such as
> http://www.adminarsenal.com/admin-arsenal-blog/silently-install-openoffice
> really works.
>
> Kind regards
> Regina
>
>
>

Re: [QUESTION] Usability of Non-Optional Java Dependencies

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 01/11/2015 Damjan Jovanovic wrote:

1. We don't have a Win64 version of AOO available for download.


This has never been a major request from our users, and also technically 
speaking the benefits a user would gain by running a 64-bit version are 
not so big. Sure, it look modern and it is good for marketing, and it is 
nice to have, but better OOXML compatibility (for example) would make 
many more users happy.



2. The Win32 version that Windows users thus download, can't use 64 bit
Java, something that is tricky to see.
3. The list of detected JREs in AOO Options is awkward to use, with its
radio buttons.


These two are probably actionable.


4. The Quickstarter then stops AOO from being restarted.
5. Missing JRE error messages come up even for places where Java is
optional.
6. There are multiple (10+) missing JRE error messages when assigning
macros to form control events.


These three are bigger in scope, but good for usability.


I've also noticed that the version of Java used to build AOO becomes the
minimum version of Java that it will accept in the list of detected JREs,
older versions just get this generic non-descriptive error: "The folder you
have selected does not contain a Java runtime environment. Please select a
different folder."


I'm not sure about this. Do you mean the version as major version? Like 
Java 6, 7 or 8? We do build binaries with Java 6 anyway, so this is 
probably correct.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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RE: [QUESTION] FInding Consistent Responses to User Issues

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

I made a sentence that makes no sense.
> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orc...@apache.org]
> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2015 10:08
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Cc: 'Keith N. McKenna' ; ooofo...@free.fr;
> 'Rory O'Farrell' 
> Subject: [QUESTION] FInding Consistent Responses to User Issues
> 
> I appreciate the way there are requests for specific additional
> information
> on skimpy bug reports, such as
> .
> 
> Thanks to those providing those.
> 
> I also notice that providing more information is not always what is
> required.  For example, unrecoverable document repair cycles are a known
> problem family, .
> 
> Would it be good to have a list of these recurring problems and
> recommendations of where possible work-arounds can be found?  Then
> everyone
> who is responding to bugs and to user reports on dev@ and users@
[orcmid] 
could supply consistent responses.
> 
> I suspect the best place to compile remedies is on the Forums, so long
> as
> there is not a long thread of posts where users will find it difficult
> to
> know exactly what the proposed remedy is and what situation is theirs.
> 
> Is this something that can be done to achieve consistent support of
> users
> regardless of where they reach us with a difficulty?
> 
>  - Dennis
> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org


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Re: MSI installer

[Regina Henschel]

Hi,

Daiddel Borges schrieb:

Any way to get an .msi installer for deployment purposes?


Thanks.
Regards


*Daiddel Borges*
*IT Services Manager, OMG National*
Tel: 800-789-4619 x 1134
dbor...@omgnational.com | www.omgnational.com
  




When you have unpacked the downloaded file (break installation after 
unpacking), you will see openoffice412.msi. You can use it for a full 
installation where you want. It will unpack the *.cab and register 
OpenOffice unless you set something different using parameters.


When you have made an administrative installation, the folder on the 
server will have a openoffice412.msi too. A client can use it, to get 
its own installation.


The methods have not changed, so you can likely use guides, which were 
written for OOo3.x. But I have never done such deployment and therefore 
I cannot say whether e.g. 
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Administration_Guide/Windows 
is still valid, or whether such as 
http://www.adminarsenal.com/admin-arsenal-blog/silently-install-openoffice 
really works.


Kind regards
Regina



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Re: MSI installer

[Rory O'Farrell]

On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 13:39:26 -0500
Daiddel Borges  wrote:

> Any way to get an .msi installer for deployment purposes?
> 
> 

There are links to various editions of Microsoft installer at
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/942288


-- 
Rory O'Farrell 

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MSI installer

[Daiddel Borges]

Any way to get an .msi installer for deployment purposes?


Thanks.
Regards


*Daiddel Borges*
*IT Services Manager, OMG National*
Tel: 800-789-4619 x 1134
dbor...@omgnational.com | www.omgnational.com
  

[QUESTION] FInding Consistent Responses to User Issues

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

I appreciate the way there are requests for specific additional information
on skimpy bug reports, such as
.

Thanks to those providing those.  

I also notice that providing more information is not always what is
required.  For example, unrecoverable document repair cycles are a known
problem family, .  

Would it be good to have a list of these recurring problems and
recommendations of where possible work-arounds can be found?  Then everyone
who is responding to bugs and to user reports on dev@ and users@.  

I suspect the best place to compile remedies is on the Forums, so long as
there is not a long thread of posts where users will find it difficult to
know exactly what the proposed remedy is and what situation is theirs. 

Is this something that can be done to achieve consistent support of users
regardless of where they reach us with a difficulty?

 - Dennis



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Re: Thinking of joining OpenOffice as a developer

[Damjan Jovanovic]

On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

> On 11/2/2015 2:33 AM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
>>
> ...
>
>> "Install cygwin, 32bit version"
>>>
>>> Do I really have to go to 32-bit Cygwin? I have a fine 64-bit Cygwin
>>> already running on my 16 GB memory system.
>>>
>>>
>>> I am not sure what impact the bitness of Cygwin has on the build, but as
>> I
>> discovered recently, AOO doesn't build on Win64.
>>
>> How are your efforts with AOO development going otherwise Patricia? Do you
>> need any help or development ideas?
>>
>>
> I am still working through the instructions for getting ready to build - I
> have some other non-software projects that will take a lot of my time this
> week.
>
> By "Win64" do you mean any 64-bit MS-Windows system? If so, that is a very
> serious issue. I do development on a 64-bit Windows 8.1 system. Has anyone
> successfully built on that OS?
>
>
You can build 32 bit AOO binaries on 64-bit Windows, but you cannot build
64 bit AOO Windows binaries anywhere, it still needs to be ported there.


> I am experimenting with installing Linux on other computers, but none of
> them has the compute power, memory, or monitor size for serious development.
>
>
Linux virtualises well, and builds significantly faster than Windows.

Re: Thinking of joining OpenOffice as a developer

[Rory O'Farrell]

On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 03:10:40 -0800
Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

> On 11/2/2015 2:33 AM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
> ...
> >> "Install cygwin, 32bit version"
> >>
> >> Do I really have to go to 32-bit Cygwin? I have a fine 64-bit Cygwin
> >> already running on my 16 GB memory system.
> >>
> >>
> > I am not sure what impact the bitness of Cygwin has on the build, but as I
> > discovered recently, AOO doesn't build on Win64.
> >
> > How are your efforts with AOO development going otherwise Patricia? Do you
> > need any help or development ideas?
> >
> 
> I am still working through the instructions for getting ready to build - 
> I have some other non-software projects that will take a lot of my time 
> this week.
> 
> By "Win64" do you mean any 64-bit MS-Windows system? If so, that is a 
> very serious issue. I do development on a 64-bit Windows 8.1 system. Has 
> anyone successfully built on that OS?
> 
> I am experimenting with installing Linux on other computers, but none of 
> them has the compute power, memory, or monitor size for serious development.
> 

My thoughts are that the most important factor in development is monitor 
size/usage. I use a double monitor setup - 1280x1024 and 1650x1050 and it is 
quite adequate.  If I were to replace a monitor now, I'd consider a 2650 x 1440.

For memory, all my machines are 4GB (old machines) and their chips run at about 
4000 Bogomips per core (2 core CPUs).  The major manifestation of slow CPUs 
will be long compile times; editing is OK if you keep the number of concurrent 
processes low (IDE code editor, email and Browser would be ny typical setup, 
running on Xubuntu 15.10) 

-- 
Rory O'Farrell 

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Re: Thinking of joining OpenOffice as a developer

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 11/2/2015 2:33 AM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:

On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

...

"Install cygwin, 32bit version"

Do I really have to go to 32-bit Cygwin? I have a fine 64-bit Cygwin
already running on my 16 GB memory system.



I am not sure what impact the bitness of Cygwin has on the build, but as I
discovered recently, AOO doesn't build on Win64.

How are your efforts with AOO development going otherwise Patricia? Do you
need any help or development ideas?



I am still working through the instructions for getting ready to build - 
I have some other non-software projects that will take a lot of my time 
this week.


By "Win64" do you mean any 64-bit MS-Windows system? If so, that is a 
very serious issue. I do development on a 64-bit Windows 8.1 system. Has 
anyone successfully built on that OS?


I am experimenting with installing Linux on other computers, but none of 
them has the compute power, memory, or monitor size for serious development.



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Re: Thinking of joining OpenOffice as a developer

[Damjan Jovanovic]

On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

> On 10/29/2015 10:56 AM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 7:32 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
>>
> ...
>
>> What is the best guide to building AOO on Windows 8?
>>>
>>> I started with
>>>
>>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_Windows
>>> ,
>>> but hit some issues and want to make sure I'm using the right guide.
>>>
>>>
>> Hi Patricia
>>
>> I used this building guide on Windows:
>>
>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step#Windows_7
>>
>> If you have any problems building feel free to mail this list. Windows
>> doesn't always build cleanly for me either.
>>
>> Oh and a big welcome to AOO. I like Apache River too btw :-).
>>
>
> "Install cygwin, 32bit version"
>
> Do I really have to go to 32-bit Cygwin? I have a fine 64-bit Cygwin
> already running on my 16 GB memory system.
>
>
I am not sure what impact the bitness of Cygwin has on the build, but as I
discovered recently, AOO doesn't build on Win64.

How are your efforts with AOO development going otherwise Patricia? Do you
need any help or development ideas?