unfortunately I have to say goodbye to the AOO project

2021-12-26 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello everyone,

unfortunately I have to say goodbye to the AOO project, the reasons are family 
related.

I would like to thank everyone involved in AOO and OOo for the last 16 years.


I wish you all and the AOO project all the best.


greetings
Jörg

(committer-ID: "joesch")


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leider muss ich mich aus dem AOO-Projekt verabschieden

2021-12-26 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo zusammen,

leider muss ich mich aus dem AOO-Projekt verabschieden, die Gründe dafür sind 
familiärer Natur.

Ich bedanke mich bei allen Beteiligten der letzten 16 Jahre für die 
Zusammenarbeit bei AOO und OOo.


Ich wünsche euch Allen und dem AOO-Projekt alles Gute.



Gruß
Jörg


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RE: Frage

2021-12-05 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Lobbying Contact [mailto:lobbying.cont...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2021 6:47 PM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Frage
> 
> guten tag
> 
> ich arbeite mit openoffice, mein gesamtes geschäftspapier ist darauf 
> ausgerichtet.
> 
> seit zwei tagen werden die grafiken in meinem geschäftspapier 
> nicht mehr 
> angezeigt.
> 
> bei der erstellung eines pdf, sind die grafiken jedoch zusehen.
> 
> ebenso werden die grafiken mit ausgedruckt.
> 
> wo könnte das problem liegen?

Aktivieren Sie 

Extras-Einstellungen-OPenOffice Writer-Ansicht-Grafiken und Objekte


Gruß
Jörg 


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RE: Apache OpenOffice available in the Microsoft Store on Windows 10

2021-12-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2021 8:20 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache OpenOffice available in the Microsoft 
> Store on Windows 10

> I have no Idea what you want, except that you are in a rage.
> 
> Please focus on the Microsoft Shop. What Issues do you have? 

I do not work for MS, but I am a committer of the ASF and focus on AOO and not 
on MS shops.

> Are you 
> against publishing on the shop? 

no

> Or is the issue more that you weren't 
> included in the process?

Yes, that's what I mean - more specifically, that I don't understand why there 
hasn't been a thorough public discussion on such an issue.

(Again, I may be overlooking something, but where is this discussion?)


Please understand that I am not technically against AOO now being available in 
the MS store, but I am criticising the fact that we do not communicate enough.

Meritocracy is one thing, but in projects as big as ours, there are things that 
should not just be done, but should be discussed in advance with everyone 
involved - a bit of democracy within meritocracy.

(I also don't think that such criticism is unreasonable, because the mere 
formality that we also have places where "votes" are obligatory shows that 
there is already democracy within the meritocracy.)



Jörg


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RE: Apache OpenOffice available in the Microsoft Store on Windows 10

2021-11-26 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2021 5:27 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache OpenOffice available in the Microsoft 
> Store on Windows 10

> What do you want to discuss? Please do so. Make your case. I 
> do not see it.

It is a pity that you now seem to want to portray the release process (which is 
actually well regulated) as something where everyone can do 'their thing' 
individually.
I still clearly remember the criticism I met from you when I only announced 
that I wanted to change the release notes afterwards.

What I have always seen is that even in a meritocratic project, every active 
project-member has a right to have a say in all centrally important things and 
it would somehow be appropriate for a free project if such things were 
discussed together in advance.


Jörg



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RE: Apache OpenOffice available in the Microsoft Store on Windows 10

2021-11-26 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: David Robley [mailto:da...@robley.net.au] 
> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2021 10:33 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache OpenOffice available in the Microsoft 
> Store on Windows 10
> 
> Perhaps 
> https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/announcing-apache-openoffic
> e-4-17 ??

Thank you for this link.

Nevertheless, I am a little surprised that something is happening here that I 
would count as part of the release process (which imho follows formal rules), 
which apparently(?) was never discussed _publicly_ in advance.

I think the whole thing is not insignificant and I think it would be 
appropriate if the PMC had informed about it.   


Jörg


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RE: Apache OpenOffice available in the Microsoft Store on Windows 10

2021-11-26 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Why are such announcements made by an individual? 
Why is there no information from the PMC? Why no press release?
Why was there no discussion in the community?
 
Or, am I overlooking something?




From: Matthias Seidel [mailto:matthias.sei...@hamburg.de] 
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 9:51 PM
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; us...@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Apache OpenOffice available in the Microsoft Store on Windows 
10



Hi all,

Apache OpenOffice has already been available in the new Microsoft Store 
on Windows 11 since October.
With the latest App update, the new store is also coming to Windows 10.

Users can now install the latest OpenOffice version with a single click!

The Store Listings are localized in English, German, Italian, Polish 
and Portuguese.
Feel free to contact me if you want to add more languages or if you 
have any questions.


Regards,

   Matthias







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RE: Wieder Fehler!!

2021-11-22 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Jörg Schmidt [mailto:joe...@j-m-schmidt.de] 
> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2021 8:56 AM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org; gald...@t-online.de
> Subject: RE: Wieder Fehler!!
> 
> Hallo,
> 
> noch ein Nachtrag:
> 
> Die Webseite www.openoffice.de hat nichts mit dem 
> OpenOffice-Projekt zu tun und das dort vertriebene Programm 
> entspricht nicht dem originalen OpenOffice.
> 
> Das originale Apache OpenOffice ist hier downloadbar:
> https://www.openoffice.org/de/download/index.html


fyi:
Die Anwendering schickte mir gerade eine PM und es ist augenscheinlich so das 
hier wieder einmal www.openoffice.de mit dem offitiellen Projekt verwechselt 
wurde, denn die Anwenderin schreibt mir auch das Sie per Email zum Update 
aufgefordert wurde, was ja bekanntlich typisch für www.openoffice.de ist.


Schade das unser PMC dazu seit Jahren nur Worte findet aber keine Taten...



Gruß
Jörg 


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RE: Wieder Fehler!!

2021-11-21 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo,

noch ein Nachtrag:

Die Webseite www.openoffice.de hat nichts mit dem OpenOffice-Projekt zu tun und 
das dort vertriebene Programm entspricht nicht dem originalen OpenOffice.

Das originale Apache OpenOffice ist hier downloadbar:
https://www.openoffice.org/de/download/index.html



Gruß
Jörg



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RE: Wieder Fehler!!

2021-11-21 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo Frau Runggaldier, 

> -Original Message-
> From: gald...@t-online.de [mailto:gald...@t-online.de] 
> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2021 12:26 PM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Wieder Fehler!!
> 
> Hallo, OpenOffice
>  
> wird es irgend wann einmal eine neue Version geben, in der 
> die wichtigsten 
> Funktionen auch weiterhin bestehen?
> Das letzte Mal fehlte die Suchfunktion.
>  
> BEi Nr. 4.1.11 kann man kein neues Dokument mehr erstellen

Mir sind derartige Probleme nicht bekannt.

Ich habe mich aktuell überzeugt, zumindest in der 4.1.11er Version für Windows 
funktioniert die Suchfunktion und ich kann in dieser Version auch neue 
Dokumente erstellen.

Leider habe ich keine Vermutung was diesbezüglich bei Ihrer 
OpenOffice-Installation schiefläuft, da es an diesen Stellen eigentlich nichts 
gibt was man (falsch) konfigurieren oder fehlbedienen könnte.
Da aber möglicherweise ein Fehler in Ihrem OPenOffice-Benutzerverzeichnis 
vorliegt, würde ich OPenOffice beenden, das OO-Benutzerverzeichnis umbenenn und 
OO neu starten, wobei ein frisches Benutzerverzeichnis angelegt wird. Siehe:
http://de.openoffice.info/viewtopic.php?p=206070#p206070

> Was muss ich tun, um ein leeres Textdokument zu erhalten?

Im Menü von OpenOffice Datei-Neu-Textdokument aufrufen



Gruß
Jörg


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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-13 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Michael, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2021 10:00 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 
> Hello Jörg,
> 
> please read what Matthias really wrote.
> 
> There is _no_ sentence "Jörg is a liar." written by hin. So 
> it is your 
> own and very special allegation he might called you a liar.

Michael, why are you accusing me of a "special allegation" here, when I have 
clearly asked(!):

"Are you calling me a liar in public?"

and by the way:
Mathias has no right to talk about "old times" in relation to OpenOffice, 
because he was never part of those "old times".


> You should also try to differ between censorship and repression and a 
> friendly minded "si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses".

Mathias is not friendly to my person because he succumbed to a misunderstanding 
a long time ago and I am too angry to clear up this misunderstanding.


> EOD

+1


Jörg


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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-10 Thread Jörg Schmidt


> -Original Message-
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 9:08 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 
> 
> 
> Am 10.11.21 um 18:38 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
> A mailing list is not a lawless space!
> 
> But free speech is free speech - on mailing lists as anywhere else.
> 
> Who claims freedom of opinion has to bear contradiction.
> 
> Free speech has implications; sometimes it causes a lack of 
> friends and 
> understanding.

In constitutional states, there are also certain limits to freedom of 
expression that are set by the legislature.

Perhaps you should think about how you would feel about being called a "liar", 
as you know that some of your clients are reading along here.


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-10 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Matthias Seidel [mailto:matthias.sei...@hamburg.de] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 6:33 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> "another point of view regarding facts"
> 
> In the old times a liar was just called a liar... J 

Are you calling me a liar in public? A mailing list is not a lawless space!



Jörg


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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-10 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Michael, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 2:00 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 
> Hi Jörg,
> 
> we know that you have another point of view regarding facts than some 
> other participants of this list.
> 
> You should accept that nearly noone wants to discuss that in extenso 
> because iz is totally useless.
> 
> We don't need more quarrels, so please stopp your blaming.

I will certainly not stop expressing my opinion freely, even if the current PMC 
obviously wants me to.
At least as a committer, I have binding rights and duties, and that includes 
the right to express my opinion, but not the duty to remain fearfully silent to 
the PMC.

And it's very simple: whoever doesn't like my opinion doesn't have to read it.

> Kind regards
> Michael, who respects your skills, knowledge and your 
> commitment in the past

Thank you. 
Then this could be a reason for you to work for these things to be appreciated 
in the same way as they have been appreciated by others who have done similar 
things.
To exclude me only because some influential people do not like me personally is 
simply unfair and I therefore oppose it.


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-09 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2021 6:30 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 
> Am 09.11.21 um 13:13 schrieb Matthias Seidel:
> > I am SO sick of these toxic threads of a certain person...
> > 
> > I don't want to read his conspiracy theories anymore
> 
> I also think I can say what I want. It's always understood 
> differently 
> and not trying to think about any attempt to change it.
> 
> > Let's stop this and go back to  work and move on with the project
> > instead of harming it.
> 
> Good point. :-)

And the fact that the voluntary work of others (=ProOO-Box) is being affected 
is of no interest?

I can still remember what it was like when OOo was in production, without PMC 
and without the know-it-all attitude of certain privileged project members.
Who was there at that time? And who was not, but today presumes to judge the 
performance of others?



Jörg


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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-09 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo Mathias,  

> -Original Message-
> From: Matthias Seidel [mailto:matthias.sei...@hamburg.de] 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2021 1:14 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I am SO sick of these toxic threads of a certain person...
> 
> I don't want to read his conspiracy theories anymore, 

I am not talking about conspiracy theories here. Stop making such insinuations.

> "D." has become committer and did stop his contributions 
> shortly after.

You know the other contexts very well.

> How should "D." become part of the PMC?!

Not at all, because I did not claim anything like that (=D. should become part 
of the PMC). Please stop putting untrue statements in my mouth.


Jörg


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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-09 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2021 11:44 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

> > I'm afraid, Marcus, we have a problem of understanding what 
> "all" means. For me, this is the community and not a few 
> privileged people who are in PMC.
> 
> I don't know in which circle you see a PMC. It's not a club 
> of old men 
> or a secret organization like Illuminati or any other voodoo. 

I am only talking about the AOO PMC (not all ASF PMCs in general).

I had given my assessment of this by PM and I am happy to repeat it here:

"a PMC of a free project should be inspired by a spirit of freedom, openness 
and fairness to all, and not play tactical games like a business club where 
personal goodwill counts more than performance."

> Sorry I don't know what you mean with "inside knowledge". Some tasks 
> have to be handled by the PMC only (e.g., people issues, 
> binding release 
> voting, trademark) . This is the rule that comes from the ASF itself.

It is certainly not a rule of the ASF that a PMC is the place to make 
appointments to harm parts of the (general) community by poaching volunteers 
from them.
Or do you think I am so simple-minded as to believe that poaching D. from the 
ProOO-Box was not discussed in advance?

And if you think such 'tactical games' are right, at least ask yourself what 
the balance is.
In any case, my conclusion is: the ProOO Box has lost an active contributor 
(and there was a bad atmosphere, which I very much regret), but the project 
still does not have a finished flyer. So both sides (de-AOO and ProOO-Box) have 
only suffered damage.

> Or what do you expect from me?

mayby your advice as a community and PMC member on how I should behave.

> When you have a topic to discuss that affects the PMC, then 
> you have to 
> talk with the PMC.

It is pointless to talk to the PMC because it refuses to even question its own 
inappropriate thinking and behaviour and understands every sufficiently 
noticeable criticism as an attack and emphasises things completely wrongly as a 
defence.

For example, when I turned to private@ a long time ago to suggest certain 
personnel changes, the reaction was not constructive but an attack on my person 
with the insinuation that I wanted to speak disparagingly about the performance 
of individuals. 
The specific comparison made to me (which I do not wish to repeat publicly 
here) was in bad taste.


Jörg





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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-09 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2021 10:58 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Am 08.11.21 um 20:13 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
> 
> > I'm afraid, Marcus, we have a problem of understanding what 
> "all" means. For me, this is the community and not a few 
> privileged people who are in PMC.
> 
> Maybe some may see it as a privilege. I see it as a (little) burden I 
> bear voluntarily.

It is a pity that not everyone is allowed to shoulder this "extra" burden if 
they want to...

> The PMC is not any kind of peerage or order.

The self-image of the AOO-PMC is different, as I have often experienced.

my mistake, in the past, was to compare the PMC with a "leadership" in the 
conventional sense (which is why I was also irritated by PMCs with a large 
number of members in other ASF projects).


Jörg


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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-08 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Marcus, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2021 5:57 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 
> Am 08.11.21 um 07:33 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
> > 
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> >> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2021 7:48 PM
> >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> > 
> >> when you want to talk about this with names then I invite you
> >> to discuss
> >> this via private@.
> > 
> > with pleasure, but not on private@, but by PM.
> 
> sorry but please write to private@, so that we *all* can have 
> the same 
> information and can discuss it.

I'm afraid, Marcus, we have a problem of understanding what "all" means. For 
me, this is the community and not a few privileged people who are in PMC.

Why I no longer want to write to private@, namely because my experiences with 
requests to private@ are negative, I told you by PM.

For me, the greatest possible openness has always been a 'trademark' of the 
ASF, but with AOO I experience that the PMC tries to build up more insider 
knowledge than is necessary. Knowledge that should actually be known and 
discussed within the entire community.

So please excuse me, but I am not interested in secret talks with the PMC.



greetings,
Jörg





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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-07 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2021 7:48 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

> when you want to talk about this with names then I invite you 
> to discuss 
> this via private@.

with pleasure, but not on private@, but by PM.


Jörg


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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-07 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2021 7:48 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 
> Am 07.11.21 um 13:38 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> >> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2021 12:22 PM
> >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> > 
> >> I wonder who you want to delete from the list *).
> >>
> >> It is the normal way that over the time a person earns merit and
> >> therefor gets the committer - and maybe also PMC - status when the
> >> contributions are good and qualifies for it.
> > 
> > Why do we not see this way, but have to realise that some 
> people work actively for OpenOffice for many, many years and 
> are denied membership in the PMC, while other new project 
> members are promoted to the PMC within a few months?
> 
> when you want to talk about this with names then I invite you 
> to discuss 
> this via private@.
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> -
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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-07 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2021 12:22 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 

> I wonder who you want to delete from the list *).
> 
> It is the normal way that over the time a person earns merit and 
> therefor gets the committer - and maybe also PMC - status when the 
> contributions are good and qualifies for it.

Why do we not see this way, but have to realise that some people work actively 
for OpenOffice for many, many years and are denied membership in the PMC, while 
other new project members are promoted to the PMC within a few months?



Jörg


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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-07 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:w...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2021 8:26 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 
> 
> 
> > On Nov 6, 2021, at 3:45 AM, Dave  wrote:
> > 
> > On 06/11/2021 10:30, Marcus wrote:
> >> Am 06.11.21 um 10:16 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
> >>> following Dave's advice {1], I contacted one moderator of the list
> >>> users...@openoffice.apache.org I know and was promised that spam
> >>> emails would be rejected in future - unfortunately, 
> however, no action
> >>> was taken, because there is spam again from the sender on the list
> >>> that I had specifically pointed out.
> >>> 
> >>> Can someone please tell me who moderates this list? I 
> would then try
> >>> to write to another moderator and ask for help.
> >>> 
> >>> [1]
> >>> see the thread "How to delete a wrong email list subscription?"
> >> 
> >> I can see that Michael and Dave could be moderators of the 
> list. But
> >> maybe it's a bit outdated.
> >> 
> >> Marcus
> > 
> > I have been a moderator for some of our English lists since the
> > project's poddling days. Unfortunately, my knowledge of 
> German is not
> > very good, so I would not be of much help for the German users list.
> > 
> > I have asked before why the PMC does not wish moderators to be
> > identified, but never received any rational answer.
> 
> Providing a clear identification of moderators would be a 
> privacy challenge.

Possible.

however:
I just think things are a little different, because I have been observing for 
years that secrecy is becoming increasingly Secrecy (in German i mean: 
"Geheimniskrämerei") here in the project, when we should actually be 
cultivating openness and developing it further.

The, so to speak, radical [1] publicity/openness in ASF projects was once very 
surprising for me, in the meantime this publicity/openness, at least in AOO, is 
eroding more and more and this is damaging us (imho). In a free project, no one 
should be afraid to stand up for their opinion in public and everyone should 
also be prepared to face public criticism of their work (and possibly their 
person).



Jörg


[1]
e.g. the fact that many ASF project members react with, consciously, annoyance 
when you write things to them by PM that you can also write on a mailing list, 
is for me an expression of this, because the tenor of this kind of reaction is 
also (to my mind): write as much as possible publicly and only in really 
exceptional cases by PM.


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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-07 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2021 7:27 PM
> To: Jörg Schmidt
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 
> Hello Jörg,
> 
> you are so right.
> 
> As I remember, you were also a (co-)moderator in the past. 
> But you resigned.
> 
> Do you want to do this job another time?

@all:
I am interested in principle, but there are personal obstacles on my part at 
the moment.

I have also answered Michael in more detail by PM. 



Jörg


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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-07 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:w...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2021 8:17 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> To be clear this not a moderator allowing SPAM situation. 

right, that's exactly how it is (which is why it's not useful for Michael to 
describe his approach to spam submitted to him several times)

> This looks like a subscriber setting an auto-reply.

Not really.  In concrete terms, it is probably the case that a spammer has 
registered regularly on the list, misusing the address of a third party.

Note: Sorry, but I am writing again that this is a very reasonable assumption, 
but that only someone who has access to the backend of the mailing list can 
verify it.


Jörg


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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-06 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Marcus, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2021 1:25 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 
> Am 06.11.21 um 12:36 schrieb Dr. Michael Stehmann:
> > I'm one of the moderators of users-de. IMO I'm not the only one.
> > 
> > I have gotten some of the spam postings in the past and 
> rejected them.
> > 
> > But it seems so, I got not all.
> > 
> > There should be a ban for some email addresses, but I'm busy at the 
> > moment. Because it's not trivial it would take some time. 
> There was no 
> > need for a ban in past. So it would be the first time for 
> me to do such 
> > a job.
> 
> I've tried to unsubscribe the mail address. But maybe it was not 
> successful as I'm not a moderator for that list.
> 
> BTW:
> It's the default contact address from a German bank. IMHO it 
> is obvious 
> that this is not really used for sending / getting mails 
> about OpenOffice.

Thank you for recognising the situation. I wrote all this to Michael by PM and 
got only general words in reply and no solution.

Yes, I understand if Michael doesn't have time, but the problems of the lack of 
moderation of "users...@openoffice.apache.org" have existed for years, and for 
years I have been pointing it out again and again, because I don't understand 
why something that concerns us all is not also something where everyone's 
opinion should count. 

What is the issue?
I think it's normal to run a mailing list the way mailing lists are normally 
run, which is that participants have to register. Where this is not respected, 
the mailing list is ineffective for all concerned (both questioners and 
helpers).
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be exceptions sometimes, but that should be 
limited to individual cases and not become the norm.



Jörg


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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-06 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Dave, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave [mailto:b...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2021 11:45 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

> I have been a moderator for some of our English lists since the
> project's poddling days. Unfortunately, my knowledge of German is not
> very good, so I would not be of much help for the German users list.

I can only describe my situation quite openly:
I wrote to Michael by PM because I know him as a moderator. Unfortunately, 
Michael's reaction was that he felt disturbed by my PM and stressed that there 
were other moderators.
I then wrote to dev@ again, because it needs a solution and not just nice words.


> I have asked before why the PMC does not wish moderators to be
> identified, but never received any rational answer.

That is a very intresting observation respectivly question. 


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-06 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Michael, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2021 12:36 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 
> hello,
> 
> I'm one of the moderators of users-de. IMO I'm not the only one.
> 
> I have gotten some of the spam postings in the past and rejected them.
> 
> But it seems so, I got not all.
> 
> There should be a ban for some email addresses, but I'm busy at the 
> moment. Because it's not trivial it would take some time. 
> There was no 
> need for a ban in past. So it would be the first time for me 
> to do such 
> a job.


I wrote to you very clearly by PM (and in German) that it is about a presumed 
list account (i.e. a regularly registered participant in the list) who is 
spamming.

Such emails from registered users are not submitted to the moderators at all. 
Or am I mistaken?
Why don't you simply check whether "i...@dkb.de" is registered on the list and 
if so, delete this registration?

It is also NOT( about a ban on which you should decide alone, but about an 
email address of the "Deutsche Kreditbank Aktiengesellschaft" which is 
obviously being misused and where the "Deutsche Kreditbank Aktiengesellschaft" 
would be happy if this were stopped.

I have written all this, in essence, by PM, but you only make completely 
general statements that presumably ignore the concrete situation.

(I write "presumably" because you keep secret from me whether my presumption is 
correct. Why I don't understand).



greetings,
Jörg


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Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

2021-11-06 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

following Dave's advice {1], I contacted one moderator of the list 
users...@openoffice.apache.org I know and was promised that spam emails would 
be rejected in future - unfortunately, however, no action was taken, because 
there is spam again from the sender on the list that I had specifically pointed 
out.

Can someone please tell me who moderates this list? I would then try to write 
to another moderator and ask for help.



greetings,
Jörg

[1]
see the thread "How to delete a wrong email list subscription?"


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RE: How to delete a wrong email list subscription?

2021-11-04 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Dave, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave [mailto:b...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2021 9:07 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: How to delete a wrong email list subscription?

> Contact the list moderator(s) users-de-ow...@openoffice.apache.org
> They have the facilities to resolve this issue.

All right, I will do that.

(But the moderator should have known by now anyway, because the problems have 
been going on for a few weeks).


greetings,
Jörg


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How to delete a wrong email list subscription?

2021-11-04 Thread Jörg Schmidt


Hello,

For some time now, there have been spam emails on 
users...@openoffice.apache.org _which appear_ to be sent by a registered 
spammer who is misusing the email address of a third party.

Questions:
How can I reliably check whether the address "i...@dkb.de" is actually 
registered for the list mentioned (users...@openoffice.apache.org)?
How can we remove the registration of this email (i...@dkb.de)?



greetings,
Jörg

P.S.
I'm not the moderator of users...@openoffice.apache.org, but I think someone 
needs to address this issue.


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RE: QA automatisation in AOO

2021-10-25 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: MENGUAL Jean-Philippe [mailto:mengualjean...@free.fr] 
> Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2021 9:27 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; Peter Kovacs
> Subject: Re: QA automatisation in AOO
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am developing an infra for QA. Initially aimed for accessibility, I 
> think the whole community can use this: they are based on Dogtail and 
> track events from at-spi, on Linux, that enables to see if a 
> key press 
> or a mouse mouvement has the appropriate feedback from an 
> event point of 
> view. Perhaps it may be ported to other platforms.

That would be good and (I think) important for practice, because it is not 
uncommon for certain problems to occur only under one operating system.

For example, in the last 3 years or so, I have had API problems (or general 
programming problems) with a database project of one of my customers under 
UBUNTU/LO, which do not occur under Windows.

> Anyway, I now have a high database for Writer scenarios. I can help 
> providing such scenarios, translating those I created (there 
> are several 
> hunderds of them). Just need a wiki for this or something 
> like this. If 
> you want the example of usage of dogtail, see
> https://people.debian.org/~jpmengual/test.tar.gz

That seems like a good offer to me. Thank you for that.


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]

2021-10-25 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2021 9:42 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment 
> object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]

> > The question of what "compatible" actually means is by no 
> means easy to answer.
> >   
> > Example: Perhaps there is a property, method, etc. in the 
> API that accidentally has a spelling mistake in its name (I 
> recently had something like this in LO regarding a parameter 
> of a Posgresql access) - on the one hand, one can then argue 
> that a name correction that does not change the actual 
> function would be compatible, but one can also argue that it 
> is incompatible because only the old naming (which is 
> possibly already used a lot in projects) no longer works.
> 
> I define Incompatible on User API level if the API user has to change 
> his work, as a result of changes in a release.

OK, but what helps and your (or my) definition? We need a definition that 
everyone recognises, especially the PMC because they have the power to decide 
on releases.

But I repeat myself: your statements about major, minor and micro releases, and 
that API changes should only be made in major releases, make sense and are 
recognised (I think by everyone). So why should we want to violate them?



greetings,
Jörg


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RE: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]

2021-10-24 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2021 2:19 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment 
> object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]
> 
> Hi Jörg,
> 
> Check:
> 
> 
> Version Number Assignment (Apache OpenOffice internal)
> 
> 
>   Structure
> 
> ..
> 
> 
>   Explanation
> 
> : huge release with visible changes and new features including 
> incompatible API changes if necessary. Translation updates are most 
> often necessary to address the UI visible changes.
> 
> : smaller improvements of features that don't need any 
> translation. And of course any kind of bug fixes.
> 
> : only selected bug fixes and most often only critical 
> ones. This 
> includes any potential security issues.
> 
> From: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Releases

Yes, agreed. 

> That is the current policy. So well as long as compatible we could 
> Change the API with a minor Release. 

I see no need and no justification for watering down clear rules/explanations.

The question of what "compatible" actually means is by no means easy to answer.
 
Example: Perhaps there is a property, method, etc. in the API that accidentally 
has a spelling mistake in its name (I recently had something like this in LO 
regarding a parameter of a Posgresql access) - on the one hand, one can then 
argue that a name correction that does not change the actual function would be 
compatible, but one can also argue that it is incompatible because only the old 
naming (which is possibly already used a lot in projects) no longer works.


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: QA automatisation in AOO

2021-10-24 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2021 2:32 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: QA automatisation in AOO
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> In the discussion on API, and releases Jörg has ask about how 
> we could 
> improve QA.
> 
> The only way in general is to formalize. We need to define 
> testcases and 
> automate those.

That sounds good, but we need specifications to define test cases.

Not all tests have to run automatically (e.g. an installation test is more 
likely to be done manually), but it has to be defined what the minimum 
requirements are - that's what I mean by specifications.

> What we have are test cases written on [1]. 

Can you please post a link to this (or what does "[1]" mean?)


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Release Notes (pl) - missing letters in the exported .pdf file

2021-10-21 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Czesław Wolański [mailto:czeslaw.wolan...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 1:09 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Release Notes (pl) - missing letters in the exported 
> .pdf file
> 
> Hi,
> 
> AOO 4.1.11 Release Notes - Polish version
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?page
> Id=191333544
> 
> The "Export to PDF" option produces the .pdf file but some 
> Polish letters
> with diacritics
> are missing. Export in Word format is correct.
> 
> File with screenshots is available at the address:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pw2Kj6DIKqcfgYDTuU9bzg6zqpOxM
> OBA/view?usp=sharing
> 
> Does anyone know what the problem is?

I can (unfortunately) only say that I do not know the reason for the problem. 
Everything works fine for me (AOO 4.1.11 and Windows 7), see:
http://ablage.freies-office.de/files/test-polnisch.pdf


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Does the registration at Bugzilla not work?

2021-10-21 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: David Robley [mailto:da...@robley.net.au] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 11:02 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Does the registration at Bugzilla not work?
> 
> If I remember correctly, there was an issue with spam and 
> registrations 
> for Bugzilla were closed; I think the advice was to ask here 
> for access.
> 
> You might want to search the mailing list archives for more detail.

Thanks for the tip. I have now found an email from November 2020, which 
confirms that the independent registration is probably deactivated. I will pass 
this on to the forum.


greetings,
Jörg


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Does the registration at Bugzilla not work?

2021-10-21 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

I just read in the forum 
http://de.openoffice.info/viewtopic.php?p=296521#p296521 that a user complains 
about not being able to register at bugzilla.
When I go to https://bz.apache.org/ooo/enter_bug.cgi?product=Writer I also find 
only one option to log in, not to register.

Is this intended or a bug? Or have _I_ overlooked something?

Does the registration at Bugzilla not work?


greetings,
Jörg



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RE: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]

2021-10-19 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Carl,

> -Original Message-
> From: Carl Marcum [mailto:cmar...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 1:13 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment 
> object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]


> >> Actually we do provide updated documentation included in 
> the SDK with
> >> each convenience binary release.
> >> It can be found on Linux at
> >> /opt/openoffice4/sdk/docs/common/ref/module-ix.html
> >> if the SDK is installed.
> >>
> >> Knowing that we can't make API changes like adding or deprecating
> >> methods or things like that in a minor version change,
> > Is this a principle that _all_ those involved in releases 
> will also _reliably_ follow?
> 
> It's up to us to inform new contributors who may make such a 
> mistake if 
> it were to happen.

yes, but ...

As far as I know, only the PMC has the right to decide about the release of a 
release - so will the PMC reliably support the mentioned principle (='API 
changes not in a minor release')?
I would appreciate a clear "yes" or "no" on this. 

And please allow me to say that the current formal minor release of AOO is 
"4.1", so, respecting the implied principle, a change to the API is thus not 
allowed until version 5.0.0.



greetings,
Jörg


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RE: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]

2021-10-19 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Carl Marcum [mailto:cmar...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 3:59 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment 
> object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> On 10/17/21 5:17 PM, Peter Kovacs wrote:
> > Hi Jörg,
> >
> > On 17.10.21 19:48, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> >> Hello Peter,
> >>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org]
> >>> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 11:27 AM
> >>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >>> Subject: Re: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment
> >>> object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]
> >>>
> >>> Hi Jörg,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I am not sure what you refer to.
> >> I refer to the fact that changes in the API documentation 
> are marked 
> >> in time (the typical entry is "since ..."), so that the API 
> >> documentation can be used in practice for all program versions.
> > I think we are on the same page if we want to change the API, but I 
> > think this is not the topic.
> >>> The documentation has no
> >>> influence on
> >>> backward compatibility.
> >> right.
> >>
> >> What I am referring to is only that we should not make 
> changes if the 
> >> QA is not 100% guaranteed. And what I currently experience is that 
> >> there is a tiny(!) problem in the API documentation, but 
> immediately 
> >> demanded now to regularly renew the documentation routinely.
> > Again this is relevant if we change the API itself.
> >> Explain to me bitterly where there are at all changes in 
> the API that 
> >> would make it necessary to update the documentation inflationary 
> >> frequently?
> >> I follow every release carefully, only from API changes I have not 
> >> noticed for years.
> >
> > The API Documentation is extracted from the Code.
> >
> > For example the comment in
> >
> > 
> http://opengrok.openoffice.org/xref/aoo41x/main/offapi/com/sun
> /star/modules.idl?r=d1766043#83 
> >
> >
> > does have an impact on the web page:
> >
> > 
> https://www.openoffice.org/api/docs/common/ref/com/sun/star/of
> fice/module-ix.html 
> >
> >
> > I hope you see both documentations are linked. So when do we update 
> > the documentation on the web site?
> >
> > Currently we will never update the web site, and the danger 
> is that if 
> > we change a comment in the documentation it will not end up on the 
> > website..
> >
> > So Arrigos Idea is to update with each release. This would keep the 
> > documentation on the web in sync with the latest Code released for 
> > this API Version (Which should roughly correspond with the major 
> > release).
> >
> > It makes sense to publish on the website which Code the 
> extraction has 
> > been taken from and what Versions the Documentation relates to.
> >
> > On an API Change, QA and documentation  Versions need to be 
> discussed. 
> > But we can discuss this when we get near to a API Change. I think 
> > until then we have done some steps in respect of QA.
> >
> > Carl is working on improvements, and I would like to try if we can 
> > establish a UI check with UI Path or similar tool.
> >
> > All the best
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
> 
> Actually we do provide updated documentation included in the SDK with 
> each convenience binary release.
> It can be found on Linux at 
> /opt/openoffice4/sdk/docs/common/ref/module-ix.html
> if the SDK is installed.
> 
> Knowing that we can't make API changes like adding or deprecating 
> methods or things like that in a minor version change, 

Is this a principle that _all_ those involved in releases will also _reliably_ 
follow?



On the whole question of API and documentation, I would like to make a general 
appeal to all of us:

The fact that OpenOffice could not be displaced by LibreOffice is largely due 
to the good quality of OO. 
We must do everything we can to preserve this quality and not compromise in 
this regard. In this context, we must also be ready to examine, critically 
discuss and improve our activities again and again.



Jörg


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RE: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]

2021-10-18 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Arrigo Marchiori [mailto:ard...@yahoo.it.INVALID] 
> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2021 8:08 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment 
> object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> replying to myself as a correction.
> 
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 07:08:25PM +0200, Arrigo Marchiori wrote:
> 
> [...]
> > Those pages should be generated by Autodoc, for what I understand.
> > 
> > Are there any scripts that do this? Or any policies on how 
> and when to
> > update the API documentation?  For example, I would suggest 
> that each
> > new release would be a good time to update the API.
> 
> I should have written "API documentation" instead of API. I apologize.

I assumed that 'API documentation' was meant, so all is well, no 
misunderstanding.

> I agree that changing the API is a ``big thing'', that we shall be
> very careful, and I understand Jörg's and Marcus' concern while
> reading my paragraph above!
> 
> I suggest we update the _documentation_ whenever possible because 

"whenever possible"?

-1

'whenever necessary'

+1

The difference between both things is a basic principle, e.g. in mechanical 
engineering (it is always worked as exactly as necessary, not as possible) as 
well as in programming, because one should not change any code (here 
documentation) if it is not necessary, because every change contains the risk 
of errors. 

> IMHO
> that can be helpful for developers.

Well, I've been professionally developing macros and extensions for OpenOffice 
for close to 15 years and I caution against frivolously updating the API 
documentation via automated processes until we have proper QA.



Jörg


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RE: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]

2021-10-18 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Peter, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 11:18 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment 
> object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]

> The API Documentation is extracted from the Code.
> 
> For example the comment in
> 
> http://opengrok.openoffice.org/xref/aoo41x/main/offapi/com/sun
> /star/modules.idl?r=d1766043#83
> 
> does have an impact on the web page:
> 
> https://www.openoffice.org/api/docs/common/ref/com/sun/star/of
> fice/module-ix.html
> 
> I hope you see both documentations are linked. So when do we 
> update the 
> documentation on the web site?
> 
> Currently we will never update the web site, and the danger 
> is that if 
> we change a comment in the documentation it will not end up 
> on the website..
> 
> So Arrigos Idea is to update with each release. This would keep the 
> documentation on the web in sync with the latest Code 
> released for this 
> API Version (Which should roughly correspond with the major release).
> 
> It makes sense to publish on the website which Code the 
> extraction has 
> been taken from and what Versions the Documentation relates to.
> 
> On an API Change, QA and documentation  Versions need to be 
> discussed. 

yes, exactly.

> But we can discuss this when we get near to a API Change. I 
> think until 
> then we have done some steps in respect of QA.

How do you come to this hope, so we can all see that there is no regulated QA 
for years? Basically there is no real QA since Raphael left the project. 

That's just a description of the situation, because we lack enough volunteers 
to build up a really sufficient QA. But volunteers have to be motivated and for 
this we have to recognize performance and not admit people to the PMC according 
to personal preference (called alleged "merit"), but only according to 
performance.

For example, we should have discussed honestly and factually how it came to the 
release mikt the (so-called) 'Big Sur Bug', to improve our release procedures, 
that such gross errors no longer occur. But nothing happened.

'9 years as a top level project' ... well, I've been in the OO project for more 
than 16 years ...




Jörg



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RE: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]

2021-10-17 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Peter, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 11:27 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment 
> object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]
> 
> Hi Jörg,
> 
> 
> I am not sure what you refer to.

I refer to the fact that changes in the API documentation are marked in time 
(the typical entry is "since ..."), so that the API documentation can be used 
in practice for all program versions.

> The documentation has no 
> influence on 
> backward compatibility.

right.

What I am referring to is only that we should not make changes if the QA is not 
100% guaranteed. And what I currently experience is that there is a tiny(!) 
problem in the API documentation, but immediately demanded now to regularly 
renew the documentation routinely.

Explain to me bitterly where there are at all changes in the API that would 
make it necessary to update the documentation inflationary frequently?
I follow every release carefully, only from API changes I have not noticed for 
years.

> It would be beneficial if we update the documentation 
> with each release, 
> allowing a process that the documentation improves.

And where is this process?
What I see is that we don't even have a regulated QA for the program. Why do 
you want to make more work for which quality assurance never has the time?

> I would not see documentation update as a blocker to a release thought. 

Neither do I in the least, but that's not the point, it's the quality assurance 
of the API documentation. 




Jörg


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RE: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]

2021-10-15 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Arrigo Marchiori [mailto:ard...@yahoo.it.INVALID] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 7:08 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment 
> object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]
> > the API doc is (somehow) part of the website. And what you 
> are looking for
> > is maybe here:
> > 
> > 
> https://github.com/apache/openoffice-org/blob/main/part2/conte
> nt/api/docs/common/ref/com/sun/star/office/module-ix.html
> 
> Thank you! That is what I meant.
> 
> Those pages should be generated by Autodoc, for what I understand.
> 
> Are there any scripts that do this? Or any policies on how and when to
> update the API documentation?  For example, I would suggest that each
> new release would be a good time to update the API.

-1 (for the moment)

this is only a good idea if there was a way to make backward compatibility, 
because information is needed for all OO versions, not only for the current 
version

please understand me correctly:
it's not about not changing anything, it's about not changing a whole procedure 
without careful(!) examination just because there is an incorrect entry


Jörg


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RE: [ANNOUNCE] Apache OpenOffice 4.1.11 released

2021-10-08 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo Carl, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Carl Marcum [mailto:cmar...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2021 10:21 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Fwd: [ANNOUNCE] Apache OpenOffice 4.1.11 released
> 
> Hello OpenOffice community,
> 
> We want to thank everyone who helped make this release happen.
> 
> Best regards,
> Carl
> (on behalf of the Apache OpenOffice PMC)


Sorry that I notice your post only now, I would like to thank you specifically 
for this kind of clarification.


greetings,
Jörg



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I _think_ there is an incorrect link in the release notes

2021-10-08 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

I inform you that in the release notes the wrong link 
https://bz.apache.org/ooo/buglist.cgi?list_id=233429_format=advanced=FIXED=FIXED_WITHOUT_CODE_milestone=4.1.10

is set and this link should be correct:

https://bz.apache.org/ooo/buglist.cgi?list_id=233429_format=advanced=FIXED=FIXED_WITHOUT_CODE_milestone=4.1.11


I explicitly state:
neither do I threaten to make a change to the finished release notes, nor will 
I implicitly make a change.
This email is not meant as a "poisoned email" but as a hint to something in the 
re-release-notes, which I think is factually wrong.


Jörg


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RE: Open Office Suggestion

2021-10-08 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Bidouille [mailto:ooofo...@free.fr] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2021 9:12 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Open Office Suggestion
> 
> Feature already reported: 
> https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=10864

Reading the comments, you think you are at the bug tracker of the LO project...


Jörg


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RE: Moderator für Xing-Gruppe gesucht

2021-09-30 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo *, 

ich habe Jürgen kontaktiert und er schreibt mir das XING ihn kontaktiert das 
die Gruppe wegen Inaktivität Ende Oktober gelöscht werden soll, er aber auch 
der Meinung ist das seitens XING wohl erst einmal wieder Ruhe ist.

Nachdem ich es überschlafen habe, habe ich Jürgen geschrieben das ich momentan 
_nicht_ zusagen möchte die Mopderation zu übernehmen.


Andererseits werde ich mich als Co-Moderator nicht austragen.



Gruß
Jörg




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RE: Apache OpenOffice on Xing

2021-09-30 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 7:22 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache OpenOffice on Xing
> 
> Am 30.09.21 um 13:12 schrieb Matthias Seidel:
> > On Xing Jürgen Schmidt is looking for a new moderator 
> (German speaking)
> > for the Apache OpenOffice group:
> > 
> > 
> https://www.xing.com/communities/posts/neuer-moderator-gesucht
> -1022924323?cce=emaaa97608.%3ADuB0OsqNVnj2CFA0144fAI
> > 
> > Any volunteers?

As I wrote on dev-de@: I am registered as moderator for this XING group. I will 
contact Jürgen.


The question is whether it makes sense to continue the group, because for this 
it would have to be possible to fill it with content, both on the part of those 
interested in OO and on the part of the AOO project.

It would probably be better to join forces with the LO people in a group 
anyway, but that is probably rather difficult 'politically'.


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Moderator für Xing-Gruppe gesucht

2021-09-30 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Jörg Schmidt [mailto:joe...@j-m-schmidt.de] 
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 3:42 PM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Moderator für Xing-Gruppe gesucht
> 
> Hallo Michael, *, 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 3:10 PM
> > To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> > Subject: Moderator für Xing-Gruppe gesucht
> > 
> > Hallo,
> > 
> > die Gruppe Apache OpenOffice auf xing sucht einen neuen 
> Moderator, da 
> > der bisherige wegen fehlender Möglichkeiten zur Aktivität 
> > dieses Amt in 
> > andere Hände legen möchte.
> 
> Ja, per XING hatte ich schon eine automatische Nachricht bekommen.
> 
> 
> Darf ich fragen:
> 
> Ist das die Gruppe die einstmals als Alternative zur 
> bestehenden OOo-Gruppe gegründet wurde, weil Leute von LO die 
> OOo-Gruppe quasi exklusiv für LO übernahmen? Oder hat diese 
> Gruppe einen anderen Ursprung?

ich antworte mir mal selber:

Ja, das ist offensichtlich die die Alternativgruppe und im Übrtigen stelle ich 
gerade fest das ich dort selbst als Co-Moderator(?) eingetragen bin ... ich 
habe aber dort noch nie etwas moderiert, weiß auch garnicht wie das geht.



Gruß
Jörg 


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RE: Moderator für Xing-Gruppe gesucht

2021-09-30 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo Michael, *, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 3:10 PM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Moderator für Xing-Gruppe gesucht
> 
> Hallo,
> 
> die Gruppe Apache OpenOffice auf xing sucht einen neuen Moderator, da 
> der bisherige wegen fehlender Möglichkeiten zur Aktivität 
> dieses Amt in 
> andere Hände legen möchte.

Ja, per XING hatte ich schon eine automatische Nachricht bekommen.


Darf ich fragen:

Ist das die Gruppe die einstmals als Alternative zur bestehenden OOo-Gruppe 
gegründet wurde, weil Leute von LO die OOo-Gruppe quasi exklusiv für LO 
übernahmen? Oder hat diese Gruppe einen anderen Ursprung?



Gruß
Jörg


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RE: OpenOffice needs better UI

2021-09-05 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Hao Wang, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Hao Wang [mailto:hao...@live.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2021 10:00 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: OpenOffice needs better UI

- we (you and I and all who use the mailing list here) can discuss your 
proposal but it won't become real but will remain only a thought in our heads.

-unlike Microsoft or Kingsoft, the AOO project is not a company, but a free 
software project, here only volunteers work and decide about their own actions.
It is right to make your proposal to the volunteers here, but even if your 
proposal meets with approval, that is no guarantee that it will be implemented, 
because in order to do so, people must be found who want to do it voluntarily.



Jörg


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RE: OpenOffice needs better UI

2021-09-05 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Hao Wang [mailto:hao...@live.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2021 6:41 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: OpenOffice needs better UI

> Should we create an Oo Lite edition that is small in size and 
> lightweighted as discussed in the messages ? This is actually 
> how WPS resurrected on the Chinese market. I think Oo Lite 
> could also challenge Microsoft in Europe as well. BTW, a 
> Windows edition of Oo Lite would also be a great threat to Microsoft.

Where is the problem to honestly say: an "Oo Lite edition" would please me? 
That would be a position I could share.

What I can't share is the kind of argumentation that tries to convince us of 
unrealistic chances of success for AOO, only with the obvious interest of 
wanting to push through an "Oo Lite Edition" in this way.

A little provocatively: 
Where are the Chinese developers who are interested in implementing a "Oo Lite 
edition"? _If_ it were realistic that a "Oo Lite edition" would be so overly 
successful in China, then I'm pretty sure Chinese developers would realize that 
and be willing to support AOO.



But such questions are answered automatically in a meritocratic project, 
because if there are enough people who believe in the success of a specific 
change in the program, then (not necessarily, but very likely) people will be 
found who will implement this change in practice.



Jörg



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RE: OpenOffice needs better UI

2021-09-02 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Pedro Lino [mailto:pedro.l...@mailbox.org.INVALID] 
> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 6:44 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: OpenOffice needs better UI
> 
> Hi Guy, Matthias
> 
> > On 09/02/2021 5:12 PM Guy Waterval  wrote:
> > 
> >  
> > Hello,
> > 
> > @Matthias Seidel
> > Here are some screenshots of IBM Lotus Symphony
> > https://ibm-lotus-symphony.informer.com/screenshot/
> > They had also reviewed some toolbars i.e. a single one to 
> manage forms,
> > asw..
> 
> That was a nice touch (I remembered it after looking at the 
> screenshots). The UI is the same but it had an Eclipse 
> wrapper (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Lotus_Symphony) 
> that allowed to have a document on each tab.
> 
> If anyone is interested to try there is still a Deutsch 
> version available at Chip
> https://www.chip.de/downloads/IBM-Lotus-Symphony_28856679.html

Thank you for the link.

I probably won't try Symphony, but I finally have a concrete proof of a 
multi-tab GUI based on OO, beyond the version once created at the Google Summer 
of Code.  
On one of the 2 German mailing lists a user has said several times that there 
used to be an OO version with tabs and I have always denied this because I knew 
that there was no such thing. The explanation should be that this user has used 
Symphony before.



Jörg


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RE: OpenOffice needs better UI

2021-08-31 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Nagy Ákos [mailto:a...@libreoffice.ro] 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2021 2:18 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: OpenOffice needs better UI
> 
> Hi,
> 
> in LibreOffice you can choose from 6 menu types.
> 
> If isn't attached, can view here: https://ibb.co/Ctqf8Fr

don't forget to mention the highlight of the whole thing: 
the 6 menu types can be applied arbitrarily to single applications (so Writer
other menu than Calc etc.) ... only the daily automatic menu change was 
forgotten
...

If LO still has underutilized developers, my suggestion would be to make Calc in
3D. For example, the currently selected cell floats as a cube in slight rotation
in front of the table. Not even Microsoft has something like that.
The advantage is that you can start small with adjustability for rotation
direction, speed, color of the surfaces and later also implement that in real 
time
6 videos run on the 6 cube surfaces.


scnr


Jörg





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RE: OpenOffice needs better UI

2021-08-31 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Hao Wang [mailto:hao...@live.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2021 11:26 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: OpenOffice needs better UI
> 
> I sent this message because I have had decade-long 
> experiences with OpenOffice, WPS, Microsoft Office, Mac OS's 
> own office suite and Latex. I think OpenOffice needs to 
> improve its UI if it wants to compete with its competitors. 
> In China, it's outrun by WPS and in US it's outrun by 
> Microsoft. 

With this you have wonderfully explained and justified your request, but said
exactly zero about what should be changed or improved in the OO UI.
Two of the programs mentioned (MS Office and WPS Office) have a ribbon interface
in any case. If that is your desire for the UI, then that would be clear so far.

> In China it is overtaken by WPS 

possible, I don't know the situation in China

> and in the USA by Microsoft

No, definitely not, because MS Office has always had much higher market share 
than
OpenOffice.

In Germany, for example, OpenOffice (specifically OOo) had a share of about 12% 
at
its best, while MS Office had >70%. 
The situation in the USA was never very different, rather the share of OO was a
bit smaller than in Germany.

> Even with a less-advanced technical core, a better 
> UI design can lead to much higher popularity.

That is certainly true. 
I'm just afraid that no one here is willing to put significant developer 
capacity
into the UI at the moment. 
More concretely, if someone would be interested in improving the UI, they could 
do
it, but they have to find someone who is interested first.



Jörg




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RE: OpenOffice needs better UI

2021-08-31 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Hao Wang [mailto:hao...@live.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2021 9:47 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: OpenOffice needs better UI
> 
> Dear OpenOffice devs,
> 
> OpenOffice needs better UI that gives users a sense of 
> light-weightedness and modernity. Currently the UI is too heavy.

What is meant by this? Is it about so-called "ribbons" or is the question to be
understood more comprehensively?

I ask because: I personally don't like ribbons (which is no argument) and I 
can't
see that ribbons improve the operating efficiency.
On the other hand, it would be interesting to hear suggestions if they mediate
something other than "ribbons".


greetings,
Jörg


btw.:
What has become of this?
https://www.computer-blog.net/software/open-office-neue-bedienoberflache/


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RE: Open office Fehler Calculation

2021-08-30 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: WSpaeth [mailto:gdwspa...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2021 3:16 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Open office Fehler Calculation
> 
> Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,
> [...]

Hallo,

Sie befinden sich hier auf einer englischsprachigen Entwicklerliste. Sie 
sollten Ihre Frage besser auf der deutschsprachigen Mailingliste für 
Endanwender stellen:
https://www.openoffice.org/de/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html

Inhaltlich kann ich nur wenig zu ihrem Problem sagen, denn dazu fehlen wichtige 
Angaben, insbesondere ob der Fehler nur bei bestimmten oder allen 
Calc-Dokumenten auftritt und falls nur bei nestimmten Dokumenten, dann eine 
Information welchen Inhalt diese Dokumente haben.


Gruß
Jörg


Hello,

You are here on an english developer list. You should be better ask your 
question on the German-language mailing list for end users:
https://www.openoffice.org/de/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html

I can't say much about your problem, because important information is missing, 
especially whether the error occurs only with certain or all Calc documents, 
and if only with certain documents, then some information about the content of 
these documents.


Greetings
Jörg





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Probleme AOO 4.1.x unter UBUNTU (Evtl. generell unter Linux)

2021-08-20 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo *,
Hallo Michael,

kann mal jemand mit Linux-Erfahrung auf diesen Thread hier sehen:
http://de.openoffice.info/viewtopic.php?f=1=75873

Ich (im Forum "Stephan") habe reichlich Erfahrung mit solchen Problemen und 
habe eigentlich nicht dem Anwender geglaubt das ein generelles Problem 
vorliegt, sondern war überzeugt es ist was mit der Datei oder dem 
OO-Benutzerverzeichnis. 

Nach einigem Testen komme ich aber auch zu der Einsicht da muss etwas mit OO 
oder UBUNTU oder deren Kombination sein. Leider habe ich bisher kein klares 
Absturzszenario gefunden, sondern es gilt: verändert das Testdokument etwas und 
wie mir scheint hilft es zwischendurch die Seitenansicht einzuschalten und bei 
Schliessen (egal mit oder ohne Speichern) kommt dann (in vielleicht der Häfte 
der Fälle) der Fehler.

Mit "OpenOffice4" mittels Terminal gestartet kommen nur wenige Hinweise, der 
einzige Substanzielle ist wohl 'failed to load 'canberra-gtk-module'.


Mein Testsystem ist ein frisches UBUNTU 20.04.1 mit AOO 4.1.10. 


Der Anwender habe ich gebeten einen Issue einzureichen.



Gruß
Jörg



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RE: A free project does not need distorting propaganda

2021-08-19 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Jörg Schmidt [mailto:joe...@j-m-schmidt.de] 
> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2021 6:39 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: RE: A free project does not need distorting propaganda
> 
> Hello Pedro, 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Pedro Lino [mailto:pedro.l...@mailbox.org.INVALID] 
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 11:31 PM
> > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: A free project does not need distorting propaganda
> > 
> > Hi Joerg
> > 
> > > On 08/18/2021 8:46 PM Jörg Schmidt  wrote:
> >  
> > > I hereby ask to remove the distorting statement from the 
> > page https://live.froscon.de/partner/openoffice again.
> > 
> > I don't see any mention to StarOffice so correcting the 
> > sentence to "20 years" instead of 30 would solve the problem?
> 
> Yes, correcting this number would eliminate the problem completely.

I would like to add/clarify the following:

it is not necessarily about a number, but it is about distinguishing free 
software from proprietary software appropriately and it is about focusing our 
emphasis in the public presentation of our project on what is important to us 
as a free software project.
Any wording that ensures this emphasis is fine with me (even if it contains the 
number 30).


Jörg


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RE: A free project does not need distorting propaganda

2021-08-18 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello *, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Simon Phipps [mailto:si...@webmink.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2021 12:42 AM
> To: dev
> Subject: Re: A free project does not need distorting propaganda

> The code demonstrably has starting points that are 30 years 
> old as stated.
> For example, see /main/tools/source/generic/gen.cxx
>  2ff5f17cc0127551a8f62/main/tools/source/generic/gen.cxx>
> which includes plenty of code from the early 90s, including 
> the various
> methods for Rectangle created 19.03.90 by Thomas Hosemann at 
> and after line
> 312.
> 
> Apache OpenOffice and LibreOffice have a heritage that demonstrably
> stretches past their inception, past the inception of their 
> predecessor
> OpenOffice.org, back 30+ years of continuously-improved source code,
> arguably right back to the Z80 code Marco wrote in 1985 
> (although that is
> not claimed here).  Even with outdated code and comments 
> removed (as has
> largely happened in LibreOffice) we still have a Ship of 
> Theseus situation.
> The statement for FrOSCon seems perfectly sound to me.

No, not perfect, but only possibly not formally wrong.

You really think it's a good style to refer us to proprietary software?
For what specific purpose? What do we gain by a visibly quite constructed age 
extension?

I will tell you what we lose: a part of straightforwardness and truthfulness 
that so far pleasantly distinguishes us from LibreOffice.
Why should we go down this path, what concrete use is it to us? What is 
important to us and what less?

The ASF is a foundation under US law, perhaps my concern becomes clearer when I 
ask: 
What are the citizens of the USA proud of first and foremost? Their 
independence or the fact that they came from old Europe? The Europe they left 
because they sought freedom.

We have the choice to publicly emphasize what is important to us, freedom or 
formal technical connections with an unfree software.


greetings,
Jörg





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RE: A free project does not need distorting propaganda

2021-08-18 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Pedro, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Pedro Lino [mailto:pedro.l...@mailbox.org.INVALID] 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 11:31 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: A free project does not need distorting propaganda
> 
> Hi Joerg
> 
> > On 08/18/2021 8:46 PM Jörg Schmidt  wrote:
>  
> > I hereby ask to remove the distorting statement from the 
> page https://live.froscon.de/partner/openoffice again.
> 
> I don't see any mention to StarOffice so correcting the 
> sentence to "20 years" instead of 30 would solve the problem?

Yes, correcting this number would eliminate the problem completely.


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: A free project does not need distorting propaganda

2021-08-18 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

> -Original Message-
> From: Simon Phipps [mailto:si...@webmink.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 10:03 PM
> To: dev
> Subject: Re: A free project does not need distorting propaganda
> 
> Hi!
> 
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 8:46 PM Jörg Schmidt 
>  wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > to my dismay I read, from a PMC member, on 
> users...@openoffice.apache.org
> > that they are trying to mix up our free OpenOffice with the former
> > proprietary StarWriter. Obviously purely for the sake of 
> show and obviously
> > also in ignorance of the facts.
> >
> > As someone who has been volunteering in the OO project (OOo 
> and AOO) for
> > 15 years, I want to make my opinion clear:
> > We have such propaganda not necessary, but us by honest 
> work on a free
> > software, since OOo 1.0.0, is completely sufficient.
> > Personally I would like to make clear that such a kind of 
> profiling by
> > propaganda, will not be supported by me, neither now nor in 
> the future.
> >
> >
> > I hereby ask to remove the distorting statement from the page
> > https://live.froscon.de/partner/openoffice again.
> >
> 
> Can you be more detailed what problem you see please? 

The free project OOo was launched, formally, on 13.10.2000. Since then, 
OpenOffice has existed for about 20 years (not 30).

StarOffice, on the other hand, has been a proprietary project, which we should 
by no means mix with OpenOffice.
Any claim that a continuous code base down to StarWriter for DOS could exist is 
technically and factually absurd, because there is no technical continuation of 
the DOS code base of Starwriter and also the code base at the transition from 
StarOffice 5.x to StarOffice 6.0/OOo 1.0.0 was renewed by SUN Microsystems so 
seriously that factually there is no continuity of e.g. API or file format.

> I 
> visited the page
> and I can't see an obvious error of a nature to cause such dismay.

I personally accompanied the complete development from OOo 1.0.0 to AOO 4.1.10 
as a volunteer and was professionally involved in many important migration 
projects in Germany.
I had to experience which caesura the separation from LO represented and which 
damage OO and LO in sum by the partly untrue propaganda on the part of the TDF, 
in addition to the weakening by the fork itself, resulted.

AOO can shine with its own performance and is not dependent on cheap, 
propagandistic exaggeration.

Who really believes that statements that are doubtful could benefit us is 
mistaken and I think it is important to contradict such developments, as long 
as they are still correctable. Personally, I would like to point out again that 
I will not remain silent about such things, also because my loyalty as a 
committer of the ASF is not to support half-truths.

My request to correct the page in question may not please everyone, but it is a 
moderate request.



greetings,
Jörg


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A free project does not need distorting propaganda

2021-08-18 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

to my dismay I read, from a PMC member, on users...@openoffice.apache.org that 
they are trying to mix up our free OpenOffice with the former proprietary 
StarWriter. Obviously purely for the sake of show and obviously also in 
ignorance of the facts.

As someone who has been volunteering in the OO project (OOo and AOO) for 15 
years, I want to make my opinion clear:
We have such propaganda not necessary, but us by honest work on a free 
software, since OOo 1.0.0, is completely sufficient.
Personally I would like to make clear that such a kind of profiling by 
propaganda, will not be supported by me, neither now nor in the future.


I hereby ask to remove the distorting statement from the page 
https://live.froscon.de/partner/openoffice again.




greetings,
Jörg


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RE: About OpenJDK

2021-08-16 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Pedro Lino [mailto:pedro.l...@mailbox.org.INVALID] 
> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 7:17 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: About OpenJDK


> > That said: Of course having AOO only a in 32-bit for 
> Windows isn't optimal.
> 
> 32-bit AOO is perfectly fine for most (all?) users. The 
> problem is that Microsoft convinced users that 64 is better 
> than 32 (using the same "bigger is better" logic vendors use 
> to sell digital cameras, mobile phones, etc.)

I fear the problems are deeper and Microsoft is now neglecting the 32-bit track 
in Windows 10 updates.
In any case, I have observed for years with professional AOO users, from the 
free economy, again and again, difficult to clarify, problems with AOO after 
Windows updates.
Workaround was already many times the use of older OpenOffice portable 
versions, but this is not a permanent solution. 


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: OpenOffice 4.1.10 crashes when loading .odm file

2021-08-06 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Matthias Seidel [mailto:matthias.sei...@hamburg.de] 
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2021 11:11 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: OpenOffice 4.1.10 crashes when loading .odm file
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Maybe it is "just" a corrupt AOO profile?
> 
> Unfortunately I don't know how (where) to rename it on macOS...

with the help of this file (sorry, only in german) you can determine the 
appropriate directory:
http://de.openoffice.info/viewtopic.php?f=25=68255#p270033


Jörg


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RE: Apache OpenOffice als Schulsoftware

2021-08-06 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo Frau Wawrzyniak,

> PrOO-Box nehme ich gerne mit auf, wenn eine Schule ein 
> Hilfsangebot zu der Software einträgt.

Als einer der ehrenamtlich bei der ProOO-Box Aktiven, möchte ich hierzu fragen:

die ProOO-Box ist keine eigene "Software" sondern, gewissermaßen ähnlich wie 
OOo4Kids, ein Projekt das Unterstützung für Anwender von OpenOffice bietet. 

Vielleicht können Sie innerhalb des OpenOffice-Eintrags auf die ProOO-Box 
hinweisen, denn ein eigenständiger Eintrag für die ProOO-Box würde deren 
Bedeutung eigentlich überbetonen und wäre noch nicht einmal nützlich für 
hilfessuchende Schulen, denn "ProOO-Box" allein wirft wohl immer zuerst die 
Frage auf 'Was ist das denn?', hingegen "ProOO-Box" innerhalb des 
OpenOffice-Eintrags ist auf den ersten Blick verständlich als 'da ist jemand 
der etwas zu OpenOffice anbietet'.

Falls Ihnen ein konkreter Ansprechpartner wichtig wäre, kann ich gerne bei uns 
im Team klären, wer dafür zur Verfügung stehen möchte.


Mit freundlichen Grüßen
aus der Region Berlin

Jörg Schmidt   



> -Original Message-
> From: Jessica Wawrzyniak via Digitalcourage e.V. 
> Ticket-System [mailto:m...@digitalcourage.de] 
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2021 10:26 AM
> To: Dr. Michael Stehmann
> Cc: dev-de
> Subject: Re: Apache OpenOffice als Schulsoftware
> 
> Lieber Herr Stehmann,
> 
> vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht, das Lob und die kleine Korrektur!
> 
> Ich habe den besagten Satz gestrichen. Sie haben Recht, dass 
> der etwas irreführend war.
> 
> PrOO-Box nehme ich gerne mit auf, wenn eine Schule ein 
> Hilfsangebot zu der Software einträgt. Grundsätzlich ist die 
> Software-Liste natürlich nicht vollständig, sondern ein 
> Abbild dessen, was an Schulen eingesetzt wird. Die 
> Freitextfelder in unserem Webformular werden auch rege 
> genutzt, sodass die Auswahl immer weiter wächst, was uns sehr freut!
> 
> Wir freuen uns natürlich auch, wenn Sie das Netzwerk Freie 
> Schulsoftware über Ihre Kanäle weiterverbreiten: 
> https://digitalcourage.de/netzwerk-freie-schulsoftware
> 
> Liebe Grüße
> aus Bielefeld
> Jessica Wawrzyniak
> 
> 
> -- 
> ▶︎Digitalcourage e.V., Marktstr. 18, D-33602 Bielefeld 
> 
> Tel: +49-521-1639 1639 | Fax: 0521-61172 | [1]m...@digitalcourage.de
> [2]https://digitalcourage.de | [3]http://bigbrotherawards.de |
> --
> --
> Für Bürgerrechte, Datenschutz
> und eine lebenswerte Welt im digitalen Zeitalter.
> --
> --
> Online spenden: [4]https://digitalcourage.de/spende/
> 
> 
> [1] mailto:m...@digitalcourage.de
> [2] https://digitalcourage.de
> [3] http://bigbrotherawards.de
> [4] https://digitalcourage.de/spende/
> 
> 
> 05.08.2021 22:15 - Dr. Michael Stehmann schrieb:
> 
> > Hallo,
> > 
> > zunächst einmal möchte ich es nicht versäumen, Sie für Ihr 
> Engagement 
> > und Ihre Initiative für das Projekt "Netzwerk Freie Schulsoftware – 
> > Schulen helfen Schulen" zu loben. Sie haben ein wichtiges Anliegen 
> > aufgegriffen. Ich wünsche Ihnen und uns als 
> Freie-Software-Community 
> > viel Erfolg.
> > 
> > Ich möchte Ihnen - gerade weil ich Ihrem Projekt großes 
> öffentliches 
> > Interesse wünsche - einen kleinen Verbesserungsvorschlag 
> unterbreiten:
> > 
> > Unter
> > 
> > https://digitalcourage.de/netzwerk-freie-schulsoftware#O-Software
> > 
> > "Open Office/OOo4Kids"
> > 
> > findet sich der Satz "Weitgehend abgelöst durch Libre Office."
> > 
> > Dieser ist mißverständlich.
> > 
> > Zum Hintergrund:
> > 
> > Apache OpenOffice, wie das Projekt und die Software korrekt 
> heißen, ist 
> > ein Apache-Top-Level-Projekt und weiterhin die führende Freie 
> > Bürosoftware. Apache OpenOffice ist das Ergebnis kontinuierlicher 
> > Softwareentwicklung seit über drei Jahrzehnten und bereits 
> > vielmillionenfach im Gebrauch (insgesamt mehr als 
> 310.000.000 Downloads).
> > 
> > Auch aktuelle Downloadzahlen beweisen die anhaltend hohe 
> Popularität 
> > dieser Anwendung.
> > 
> > Apache OpenOffice hat zuletzt die Version 4.1.10 veröffentlicht und 
> > bereitet aktuell die Version 4.2 vor.
> > 
> > LibreOffice ist ein Fork von OpenOffice und eigenständig. Zwar 
> > reklamieren einige gerne, LibreOffice sei der "wahre 
> Nachfolger" von 
> > openooffice.org, wie das Projekt früher hieß, aber diese Sicht ist 
> > angesichts der Faktenlage eher als einse

RE: falsche Fakten zu OO auf https://digitalcourage.de/ - Was sollten wir tun?

2021-08-02 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2021 10:12 AM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: falsche Fakten zu OO auf 
> https://digitalcourage.de/ - Was sollten wir tun?
> 
> Done.

_well_ done.

Danke.


Wenn ich irgendwann Zeit finde werde ich aber noch nach möglichen weiteren 
Infos recherchieren (bei wikipedia orakelt man ja zur LO-Marktverbreitung ganz 
geschickt) und auch einmal ein wenig eigene Statistik mit den Download-Zahlen 
anstellen.




Gruß
Jörg


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RE: falsche Fakten zu OO auf https://digitalcourage.de/ - Was sollten wir tun?

2021-08-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave [mailto:davepo...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2021 11:52 AM
> To: dev-de
> Subject: Re: falsche Fakten zu OO auf 
> https://digitalcourage.de/ - Was sollten wir tun?
> 
> Jedenfalls reagieren. 

klar, wenn ich das nicht beabsichtigen würde, hätte ich garnicht erst gefragt.

Aktuell habe ich mich an die internationale dev-Liste gewandt in der Hoffnung 
das dort jemand statische Daten kennt die über die Downloadzahlen hinausgehen 
(bei OpenOffice.org hatten wir früher einen solchen Datenpool), denn das wäre 
natürlich hilfreich.



Gruß
Jörg


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What information do we know about the market penetration of AOO?

2021-08-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

back in the days of OpenOffice.org, there was a well-maintained pool of 
information about the market penetration of OpenOffice.org (links to market 
research, third-party analysis, etc.).

I would like to ask if anyone, beyond the bare download numbers, knows of 
similar information on AOO?
Does anyone know if possibly the ASF collects/archives information on this?


greetings,
Jörg



Note:
unfortunately, as an AOO project, we do not have any effective marketing 
activities, which is why I am not sending this email to 
market...@openoffice.apache.org, because there is no one there (I have been 
subscribing to market...@openoffice.apache.org for years and I know that no 
emails come through it).


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falsche Fakten zu OO auf https://digitalcourage.de/ - Was sollten wir tun?

2021-08-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo,

ich finde auf digitalcourage.de folgende Aussage zu OpenOffice [1]:

"Open Office/[...]

[...] Weitgehend abgelöst durch Libre Office. [...]



[1]
https://digitalcourage.de/netzwerk-freie-schulsoftware#O-Software




Wie wollen wir als deutsche AOO-Community darauf reagieren?



Gruß
Jörg



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RE: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 10 Pro 21H1

2021-07-22 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Bidouille [mailto:ooofo...@free.fr] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2021 9:12 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 
> 10 Pro 21H1
> 
> Start Windows in safe mode 

and then?

... well, I started Windows in safe mode, AOO still does not recognize JRE 
1.8.0_291.


I had also, already yesterday, repeated the installation of Windows and JRE and 
AOO (in VMWare) and can only write that the problem is clearly reproducible 
with me. Why it occurs I do not know.



Jörg


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RE: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 10 Pro 21H1

2021-07-20 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Rony G. Flatscher (Apache) [mailto:r...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 2:46 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 
> 10 Pro 21H1
> 
> On 17.07.2021 10:42, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> > 2.
> > JRE 1.8.0_291 is not recognized by OO and cannot be 
> activated - even if I first install JRE and then AOO it is like this.
> > (In the forum http://de.openoffice.info it is however 
> reported by a user that he uses 1.8.0_291 in AOO 4.1.10, 
> perhaps the problem occurs only with 21H1 of Windows 10).
> >
> > JRE 1.7.0_71 on the other hand is recognized without 
> problems (even when installing after AOO) and can be activated.
> 
> Could it be that JRE 1.8.0_291 is blocked? Cf. e.g.
> <https://winaero.com/how-to-unblock-files-downloaded-from-inte
> rnet-in-windows-10/> .

I have read through this, but this does not apply to me, because there were no 
problems with the download and installation, also Java 1.8.0_291 is entered in 
the SYstemsteuerung as "activated".

On the command line (cmd.exe), returns:

Java -version

the display:

java version "1.8.0_291"



Jörg


Note:
that Java 1.8.0_291 is not recognized by AOO is annoying, but no problem, 
because the other Java version is recognized. Also, I do not use Win 10 
productively, but only for testing, so I am not dependent on it.
My thread here was _not_ intended to _ask for support_, but I wanted to report 
the problem with Java, since Win 10 21H1 is fairly new and I thought the 
problem could be general, especially since my system was installed very fresh.
However, it seems that the observed problem is not general, but occurs only 
with me (for whatever reason), so we can put the discussion to sleep.




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RE: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 10 Pro 21H1

2021-07-20 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Mechtilde,

> -Original Message-
> From: Mechtilde [mailto:o...@mechtilde.de] 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 3:02 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 
> 10 Pro 21H1
> 
> Hello Jörg,
> 
> please look under C:\Programme (c86) or the corresponding 
> directory for
> a directory java.

Java.exe is in:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre 1.8.0_291\bin\


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 10 Pro 21H1

2021-07-19 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Bidouille [mailto:ooofo...@free.fr] 
> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 4:26 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 
> 10 Pro 21H1
> 
> 
> Reset the user profile and try again

That's the very first thing I have done.


Jörg


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RE: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 10 Pro 21H1

2021-07-19 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Pedro, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Pedro Lino [mailto:pedro.l...@mailbox.org.INVALID] 
> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 11:36 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 
> 10 Pro 21H1
> 
> Hi Jörg
> 
> > On 07/17/2021 9:42 AM Jörg Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> > JRE 1.8.0_291 is not recognized by OO and cannot be 
> activated - even if I first install JRE and then AOO it is like this.
> > (In the forum http://de.openoffice.info it is however 
> reported by a user that he uses 1.8.0_291 in AOO 4.1.10, 
> perhaps the problem occurs only with 21H1 of Windows 10).
> 
> JRE 1.8.0.291 (32 bits) works perfectly on my Win 10 21H1 
> laptop and is recognized by AOO 4.1.10
> Make sure that you download the i586 installer

Yes, I know that and I use the correct file:

jre-8u291-windows-i586.exe


No idea why it does not work. Also my Windows installation is newly created (I 
use VMWare for testing).


greetings,
Jörg


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Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 10 Pro 21H1

2021-07-17 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

On a fresh installation of Win 10 Pro 21H1 and AOO 4.1.10, I was able to 
observe:

1.
In the Control Panel (in german: "Systemsteuerung") under "Programs and 
Features", when trying to repair the AOO installation by clicking on "Repair" 
(above the list of all installed programs), an error message appears prompting 
you to exit the OO Quickstarter. However, the OO Quickstarter is not running at 
all.
(Workaround is to click on "Change", then you can choose "Repair" in the 
installer dialog afterwards).

2.
JRE 1.8.0_291 is not recognized by OO and cannot be activated - even if I first 
install JRE and then AOO it is like this.
(In the forum http://de.openoffice.info it is however reported by a user that 
he uses 1.8.0_291 in AOO 4.1.10, perhaps the problem occurs only with 21H1 of 
Windows 10).

JRE 1.7.0_71 on the other hand is recognized without problems (even when 
installing after AOO) and can be activated.



greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Enhancement request from Facebook

2021-06-16 Thread Jörg Schmidt
hello, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 4:12 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Enhancement request from Facebook
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> We have the issue 20655 [1] which is about a setting on how many last 
> documents are kept.
> 
> Does anyone have pointers what to do? Where would we add this setting?

Yes, install the appropriate extension, which already existed when Apache 
OpenOffice was still called OpenOffice.org. 
In the meantime there seem to be even 3:
https://extensions.openoffice.org/en/project/history-master
https://extensions.openoffice.org/en/project/advanced-history-manager-manage-list-recentpreviously-opened-files
https://extensions.openoffice.org/en/project/history-master




Jörg


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RE: Changing default rounding in Writer Tables

2021-06-10 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Dean.Webber [mailto:2018001...@student.sit.ac.nz] 
> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 2:07 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Changing default rounding in Writer Tables
> 
> Dear Devs,
> 
> How hard would it be to change the default rounding in the 
> tables to the entered value or similar. Or perhaps, can I 
> change it to accept text as an entry by default (ie in settings)...

You can change this as you wish by defining a standard document template for 
Calc
and adjusting the settings there.

(a)
In the menu: Format-->Styles and Formatting, select the cell template "Default" 
in
the appearing dialog and in the context menu of this template set the desired 
cell
formatting in the tab "Numbers".

(b)
Then call up the menu: File-Templates-Save and save the document as a template.

(c)
Finally call: File-Template-Organize, search for the newly saved template, 
create
the context menu and select the entry "Set as default Template".

Done.


>From now on the cell format in all new documents will be as you just set it in
(a).


Jörg



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RE: Where can I get help with a complicated menu problem (API)?

2021-06-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2021 4:36 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Where can I get help with a complicated menu 
> problem (API)?

> In this thread
> [url]https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20;
> t=99632[/url]

Thanks, I will take a look.


Jörg


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RE: Where can I get help with a complicated menu problem (API)?

2021-06-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Peter, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2021 9:16 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Where can I get help with a complicated menu 
> problem (API)?
> 
> Hello Jörg,
> 
> I have passed the extension you have provided to the person 
> who asked on 
> Facebook.
> 
> The Answer was:
> 
> "Thank you so much! This works perfectly. [...]
> I never expected anyone to pay attention to my question, but you did. 
> AND you went above and beyond. I am honored and impressed.
> 
> I wanted to leave positive feedback for the extension, but I 
> didn't see 
> anywhere to do so.
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
> i'm just incredibly happy to havethe extension. i've been 
> bragging about 
> OO to everybody because you paid attention to me and actually had an 
> extension created. i think people will be really happy with 
> it once they 
> realize that it exists. as a numbers person, it is a must have."

Good publicity for Openoffice

> So if you have time please release it on extensions, so she 
> can rate it. 

What do you think Peter, should I do that at this point in time?

OK, the extension works, but it's only a prototype at the moment and above all 
we had thought about releasing more language localizations.



greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Where can I get help with a complicated menu problem (API)?

2021-06-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2021 9:47 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Where can I get help with a complicated menu 
> problem (API)?

> This is not an immediate answer, but I note that the 
> checkmark mechanism is available in (inter alia) Writer, on 
> the View menu, for selection of toolbars and viewing of Text 
> boundaries and Sidebar.  A quick search threw up this
> [url]https://www.openoffice.org/api/docs/common/ref/com/sun/st
ar/mozilla/MenuMultipleChange.html[/url]

Yes. Thank you, but ...

... this is a similar link I already received in the forum
(https://www.openoffice.org/api/docs/common/ref/com/sun/star/awt/XPopupMenu.html)
and unfortunately it is not enough for me to develop a solution myself.


greetings,
Jörg


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Where can I get help with a complicated menu problem (API)?

2021-06-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

Peter had asked me to write a small extension, which I did. For the meaningful 
operation of the extension it would be necessary to be able to set a check mark 
at a, self-defined, menu item.
The question is formulated here more exactly (and the short answer there does 
not help me unfortunately):
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20=105315#p511270


Can someone help me?

My hope is that someone knows who used to work as a programmer at OOo/SUN with 
a focus on menus and can still be contacted today. 


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Many subpages of the de-website not reachable anymore?

2021-05-23 Thread Jörg Schmidt


> -Original Message-
> From: Matthias Seidel [mailto:matthias.sei...@hamburg.de] 
> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2021 1:40 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Many subpages of the de-website not reachable anymore?
> 
> Hi Dick,
> 
> Am 23.05.21 um 13:21 schrieb Dick Groskamp:
> >
> > On 2021/05/23 10:18:48, Jörg Schmidt  wrote: 
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: Dick Groskamp [mailto:di...@apache.org] 
> >>> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2021 12:09 PM
> >>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >>> Subject: Re: RE: Many subpages of the de-website not 
> >>> reachable anymore?
> >>> Could it be that 
> >>> https://www.openoffice.org/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html 
> >>> (without de in the link) doesn't exists ?
> >> Yes. This is exactly the cause. That's why I wrote that 
> the national pages are not uniform and can not be treated the same.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jörg
> > OK, I probably found the cause.
> > it is in index.html.
> >
> > This part:
> >   
> > 
> >   
> > Ich bentige Hilfe zu OpenOffice
> >
> > picks up: https://www.openoffice.org/about-ooo/mailinglist.html
> 
> Thank you for your help. Yes, that should be a relative path. 
> Fixed now!
> 
> Should be visible in 15 minutes.

... and it works. Thank you.


Jörg


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RE: Many subpages of the de-website not reachable anymore?

2021-05-23 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:w...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2021 1:00 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Many subpages of the de-website not reachable anymore?
> 
> Hey -
> 
> The page shows for me:
> 
> https://github.com/apache/openoffice-org/blob/main/content/de/
> about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html
> 
> https://de.openoffice.org/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html
> 
> Redirects to
> 
> https://www.openoffice.org/de/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html


Yes, but https://www.openoffice.org/de/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html does 
not.



The problem seems to me to be the overall behavior, which runs as follows:

1.
Go to https://www.openoffice.org/

2.
In a German localized system you will now see on this page the notice:
"Diese Webseite gibt es auch in Deutsch (de). Einfach auf diesen Text klicken, 
um weitergeleitet zu werden."

3.
If you click on this hint, you will be redirected to:
https://www.openoffice.org/de/

and _not_ to:
https://de.openoffice.org


 

Jörg


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RE: RE: Many subpages of the de-website not reachable anymore?

2021-05-23 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Dick Groskamp [mailto:di...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2021 12:09 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: RE: Many subpages of the de-website not 
> reachable anymore?

> Could it be that 
> https://www.openoffice.org/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html 
> (without de in the link) doesn't exists ?

Yes. This is exactly the cause. That's why I wrote that the national pages are 
not uniform and can not be treated the same.



Jörg


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RE: Many subpages of the de-website not reachable anymore?

2021-05-23 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Peter, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2021 11:35 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Many subpages of the de-website not reachable anymore?
> 
> Hello Jörg,
> 
> 
> I am not sure what is wrong. The link at [1] works for me. I see no 
> differences to the archive., Also the History at [2] does not 
> show any 
> changes.
> 
>  From which link do you start or which one is broken?

i start from "Ich benötige Hilfe zu OpenOffice", and the Link is:

https://www.openoffice.org/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html

without "de" in the link.


(I hope that this is just a carelessness error and not related to a schematic 
approach to the CMS conversion, because I have always warned about the 
consequences of the latter, because the national sites are not uniform.)


greetings,
Jörg


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Many subpages of the de-website not reachable anymore?

2021-05-23 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

I see that important pages have completely disappeared.

Here is a link of an (old) page that shows the right side menu of the de-SEites:
https://web.archive.org/web/20200525211720/http://www.openoffice.org/de/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html

How do I currently reach all the pages linked there? 

For example, how do I reach the German documentation? How e.g. do I reach the 
german Issuzilla introduction? How e.g. do I reach the German informations 
about the German users mailinglist? How  many other pages more?




greetings,
Jörg


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RE: [discussion] use of https://downloads.apache.org/ as a download page

2021-05-02 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2021 12:39 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: [discussion] use of https://downloads.apache.org/ as 
> a download page
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> 
> In the past we have discouraged the use of 
> https://downloads.apache.org/ 
> because of Infra.
> 
> I had a discussion with Humbedooh if this is still the case. And the 
> discussion outcome is, hat they only need a view days to 
> adjust in order 
> to be able to secure the service.

These are very good perspectives. 

> 
> It may be that on peak times the download speed drops, but traffic or 
> the amount of downloads is not a topic.
> 
> A topic will be to obtain statistics. I have not discussed 
> this yet. But 
> the data is not publicly available, and I so far obtained only a list 
> from last week, because I figured that some are already 
> promoting the link.
> 
> (With about 6k of download on friday, 4k on thursday, and 500 on 
> wednseday. (thursday I figured that some sites announced 
> 4.1.10. (They 
> even link the draft release notes :P )
> 
> 
> So what do you think? Should we promote the alternate link with this 
> release more publicly maybe on Forums and go for a transition to a 
> different download policy?

+1

... and "go for a transition to a different download policy" is, in my eyes, a 
successful formulation/goal setting. 


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: How to recruit [Was: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position]

2021-04-30 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Arrigo, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Arrigo Marchiori [mailto:ard...@yahoo.it.INVALID] 
> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 1:30 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: How to recruit [Was: Feature: automatic enter of 
> a decimal point at a fixed position]

> > Where can I find an archive of this list so I can look at it?
> 
> The list was recently renamed, therefore the archives are 
> split in two.
> 
> New list: 
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-volunteer/
> Old list: 
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-recruitment/

thank you

> > > If so, I would appreciate your (possibly constructive :-) 
> criticism,
> > > as I tried to reply to a couple of people but I do not 
> seem to have
> > > had any success so far.
> > 
> > My, described, personal experiences come from the time of 
> OOo [!], the problem was then, however, almost identical to 
> the situation today:
> > Too many experienced people don't understand that 
> newcomers, who have no FOSS project experience, don't 
> understand the meritocratic way of working and therefore 
> misunderstand the liberal request 'find yourself the part of 
> the project you want to work on' as 'I don't feel like giving 
> you concrete help'.
> > 
> > It is our mistake to pretend to deprive the newcomers of 
> their freedom, only if we assign them concrete work. And I 
> name this mistake by saying that we raise the tool (!) 
> "meritocracy" to the status of a religion.  
> 
> I agree that an initial bit of guidance is useful, but I am not
> sure I understand your very last point.

I'm afraid you don't understand my complete statement, because the first part 
is not specifically about guidance, but about assigning tasks.

You should not misunderstand "assigning tasks" as giving orders, but as the way 
experienced project members give advice on which tasks they should start with.

What is regularly done, however, is something different, namely telling the 
newcomers to choose for themselves what they want to do (in the 'tone of voice' 
'they MUST choose for themselves what they want to do').
And this happens out of the schematism that some think that any steering of the 
interests of newcomers would already run counter to the idea of meritocracy. 
And this view I called "religion", you can also call it "dogmatic", in any case 
it harms the project.

I give an example:
Peter's answer ([1]) to [2] was undoubtedly friendly, but it was general and 
without concrete benefits for a newcomer, who actually wants one thing above 
all: 
he initial wants to do something concrete and thereby get to know the project.

What did I do? I invited Fabio to the ProOO-box (www.prooo-box.org) and told 
him specifically where we need help and explained to him what he must consider 
and how he must proceed if he wants to follow our request. 
This means that I gave Fabio a concrete path for his first steps in the project.
It doesn't mean that Fabio has to follow my suggestion, but probably he will do 
it voluntarily, because he is happy to know that he is doing something useful 
for the project.

[1]
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-dev-de/202103.mbox/%3C343ed415-9307-c63a-bd9d-ac80ca2689b1%40apache.org%3E

[2]
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-volunteer/202103.mbox/%3C001201d71e34%24542fcb30%24fc8f6190%24%40holdoffice.com%3E

 


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: How to recruit [Was: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position]

2021-04-30 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Arrigo Marchiori [mailto:ard...@yahoo.it.INVALID] 
> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 8:13 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: How to recruit [Was: Feature: automatic enter of a 
> decimal point at a fixed position]

> Are you subscribed to the recruitment - volunteering list?

No, I'm not.

Where can I find an archive of this list so I can look at it?

> If so, I would appreciate your (possibly constructive :-) criticism,
> as I tried to reply to a couple of people but I do not seem to have
> had any success so far.

My, described, personal experiences come from the time of OOo [!], the problem 
was then, however, almost identical to the situation today:
Too many experienced people don't understand that newcomers, who have no FOSS 
project experience, don't understand the meritocratic way of working and 
therefore misunderstand the liberal request 'find yourself the part of the 
project you want to work on' as 'I don't feel like giving you concrete help'.

It is our mistake to pretend to deprive the newcomers of their freedom, only if 
we assign them concrete work. And I name this mistake by saying that we raise 
the tool (!) "meritocracy" to the status of a religion.  


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-29 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 10:32 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> fixed position

> > If we want to attract people who are not yet sure if they 
> want to work permanently, I'm afraid we have to find ways to 
> make it even easier to get involved.
> +1, lowering the barrier is hard.

Well, it may be laborious to overcome the hurdles, but it is not difficult.
One way would be for someone to feel responsible for the newcomers and give 
them concrete support in their first steps in the project. But I've been having 
this discussion for 15 years now, and it's regularly put down by the fact that 
such support for newcomers would potentially be interference.

e.g. I personally would never have found my way to OpenOffice if I had been 
fobbed off as a newcomer by being told I have free choice in what I want to do 
- no, I owe my being here to people like Andre, Thomas or Eric who had the 
right human feeling to give me hints at the beginning which tasks would be 
suitable for me.



greetings,
Jörg




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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-29 Thread Jörg Schmidt
an addendum:

> can we publish the code on github?

I have nothing against the publication of the code, but the code is completely 
banal and was written in 5 minutes.
I'm not familiar with Git and don't think it's necessary to learn Git at the 
moment just because of this one tool for Calc - so no, I don't intend to 
publish the code in Git. Perhaps the need for it will arise in the future, then 
I will think about it again.


Jörg 


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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-29 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:wave4d...@comcast.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 10:14 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> fixed position

> > I think a good approach is the Scrum backlog 
> prioritization. A issue up the list, may be ranked as 
> important, but still a developer can pick a lower ranked 
> backlog point, if he can fix it, but not the above ones.
> > 
> > And maybe a higher one needs some sort of support, 
> additional information, research for it to be fixed. Not 
> every Issue takes the same skill or experience.
> 
> Making a list of easy to fix issues for developers new to 
> OpenOffice would help recruitment.

+1 ... right, but I don't think that's enough in practice.
There should be a buddy who takes care of potential new programmers and paves 
the way for them, both in technical and organisational questions.

Why?
For example, it is an illusion to believe that a newcomer who knows C++ and has 
understood the content of an issue can start programming immediately. No, he 
must first get an overview of the entire code in order to find the right place 
and he must familiarise himself with the processes in the project.
How long does that take? And please keep in mind that we are talking about 
volunteers who are only here in their spare time. 2 weeks? 4 weeks? Who takes 
on this effort without being sure beforehand that they want to participate 
permanently?

If we want to attract people who are not yet sure if they want to work 
permanently, I'm afraid we have to find ways to make it even easier to get 
involved.


Jörg



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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-29 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 9:11 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> fixed position

> Thanks, this is awesome.
> 
> What error handling is needed? 

I'll have to think hard about this to give a complete answer, but for example, 
it is necessary to have an error routine for when the user enters text in 
error. On the other hand, text input can also be a desired feature, in which 
case one must ensure that if text is entered, it is automatically treated 
differently from a numeric value.

> What 
> license do you prefer?

Personally, I usually prefer LGPL 2.1 (only 2.1!), MIT and ISCL, but for such a 
small tool I don't care, so we can use Apache License.

> I would prefer with an ASF Repo, but I feel that we had so far no 
> agreement to this. Is there any opposition if we create an 
> "OpenOffice 
> Extension" Organisation That then collects extension code?
> 
> This is just a wild Idea. 

This is an idea that Mechtilde and I had already discussed on 
dev...@openoffice.apache.org and I think it could be useful if done properly. 
Doing it spontaneously will not lead to success, as negative experiences from 
the OpenOffice.org project should have shown us.
I would therefore like to take up this idea in a new thread to discuss it 
systematically. Please be patient for a few days until I open this thread - I 
have to think about it first.

> Anyone on an Idea how to make an extension multilingual?

The 'extension mechanism' offers clear possibilities for this, but they are 
rarely used in practice because the technical effort for small extensions is 
relatively high. In practice, this is therefore often done manually directly in 
the macro.


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-28 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Pedro Lino [mailto:pedro.l...@mailbox.org.INVALID] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 5:39 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> fixed position
> 
> Hi all
> 
> > On 04/28/2021 4:16 PM Jörg Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> > Peter is looking for a function with which he can achieve 
> that when typing:
> > <1><2><3><4>
> > 
> > the cell contains the value 12.34. 
> 
> That is correct. I just learned that Excel has such an 
> Advanced feature which is disabled by default.
> 
> My answer to Peter was to the point that although this 
> feature seems useful for some users, I'm not sure we (as a 
> project) have the manpower to allocate to such a task and 
> therefore I suggested a solution (sometimes called a hack or 
> workaround) which involves simply having an extra formula in 
> a separate column.

mmh ... I had already created and linked a solution this morning. Currently in 
a file so that you can test it directly:
www.calc-info.de/files/SpecialInput.ods

(Please note the menu "Special Input" included in the file.)

I can also put it in an extension and we could then integrate it into the AOO 
installation package or upload it to the extension directory.


Somehow I don't understand the discussions at the moment, sometimes the talk is 
that the whole thing is unnecessary, sometimes I'm accused of talking about the 
wrong topic...


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-28 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: DaveB [mailto:b...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 1:25 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> fixed position
> 
> On 28/04/2021 11:55, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> >  
> > 
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Dave Barton [mailto:dbar...@posteo.net] 
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:30 PM
> >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> >> fixed position
> >>
> > 
> >>>> Or a more simple solution = Format Cells
> >>>
> >>> Really not, no formatting is able to change a value. Sure, 
> >> you can compensate for this during further calculation (for 
> >> example =SUM(D1:D10)/100 instead of =SUM(D1:D10)), but who 
> >> wants to work like that? 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> greetings,
> >>> Jörg
> >>
> >> You are creating an issue where a problem does not exist.
> > 
> > I don't think so.
> 
> I do, because you are not dealing with the original issue.

Peter wrote literally:

"I have been asked on Facebook, and I found a forum thread if there is a 
feature that interprets the entry of numbers the last 2 numbers as digits.

So if you enter 1234 calc will enter 12.34 in the cell."

in my words, it means:
Peter is looking for a function with which he can achieve that when typing:
<1><2><3><4>

the cell contains the value 12.34. 

> Please do not lecture me on such things, I have been involved 
> with this
> software since 2001 and a long term user of Star Office before that.

and I've been around since 2004 and have written the best-selling 
German-language book on OpenOffice.org Calc: 
http://calc-info.de/informationen.htm

But are these the criteria that decide here, in this discussion? I think not.


Jörg



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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-28 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Barton [mailto:dbar...@posteo.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:30 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> fixed position
> 

> >> Or a more simple solution = Format Cells
> > 
> > Really not, no formatting is able to change a value. Sure, 
> you can compensate for this during further calculation (for 
> example =SUM(D1:D10)/100 instead of =SUM(D1:D10)), but who 
> wants to work like that? 
> > 
> > 
> > greetings,
> > Jörg
> 
> You are creating an issue where a problem does not exist.

I don't think so.

> Using your
> example Cells D1:D12 formatted as numbers with zero decimal 
> places means
> that only integer values are entered in those cells. Fill cells D1:D10
> with the integer value 1234 and in cell D12 enter =SUM(D1:D10) which
> returns the result 12,340

Right. And?

In this case 12,340 means the value 12340, the "," is NOT a decimal separator 
but the thousands separator (in an English localised OO).

But what was the question?
Peter wants a solution how to enter 1234, but the value 12.34 should be taken 
over.



Jörg


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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-28 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: DaveB [mailto:b...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 11:25 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> fixed position
> 
> On 28/04/2021 09:59, Pedro Lino wrote:
> > Hi Peter
> > 
> >> On 04/28/2021 3:27 AM Peter Kovacs  wrote:
> > 
> >> I have been asked on Facebook, and I found a forum thread 
> if there is a 
> >> feature that interprets the entry of numbers the last 2 
> numbers as digits.
> > 
> >> Any Ideas, or inputs? Does LO maybe have done this? (I 
> could not find 
> >> any hints.)
> > 
> > That is a simple calculation that can be done in two 
> columns. Just type the number in one column without the dot 
> (although I don't see that pressing an extra key would slow 
> down any typist) and then on the next column divide it by 100.
> > 
> > I think this is a simple user problem, not a dev issue...
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Pedro
> 
> Or a more simple solution = Format Cells

Really not, no formatting is able to change a value. Sure, you can compensate 
for this during further calculation (for example =SUM(D1:D10)/100 instead of 
=SUM(D1:D10)), but who wants to work like that? 


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-28 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 4:28 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> fixed position
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> 
> I have been asked on Facebook, and I found a forum thread if 
> there is a 
> feature that interprets the entry of numbers the last 2 
> numbers as digits.
> 
> So if you enter 1234 calc will enter 12.34 in the cell. This 
> is good for 
> accountants to enter a lot of numbers. (Need to think less, which I 
> appreciate when I have to do a lot repeated tasks.)
> 
> Excel does this with some complicated menu.
> 
> I could not find any feature or extension. Adding this as a extension 
> sounds great to me and this sounds not to complicated.
> 
> 
> I would go for
> 
> # a extension config which sets up the digits to be moved.
> 
> # a button to toggle the feature
> 
> # a small macro that divides by the setup amounts if the cell is 
> overwritten. (don't know if this definition can be used)
> 
> 
> Any Ideas, or inputs? Does LO maybe have done this? (I could not find 
> any hints.)
> 
> How we could take care the extension gets translated? (we = 
> community, I 
> do not think this needs to be an ASF extension.)

This is simple. You need the following working macro (the macro still needs 
some error routines):

Sub Main
addr = Thiscomponent.getCurrentSelection
If addr.supportsService("com.sun.star.sheet.SheetCell") Then
Thiscomponent.getCurrentSelection.Value = 
Thiscomponent.getCurrentSelection.Value/100
End If
End Sub

and these two macros to activate and deactivate the function:

Sub activate_special_input()
Dim mEventProps(1) as new com.sun.star.beans.PropertyValue
mEventProps(0).Name = "EventType"
mEventProps(0).Value = "Script"
mEventProps(1).Name = "Script"
mEventProps(1).Value = 
"vnd.sun.star.script:Standard.Module1.Main?language=Basic=document"

ThisComponent.CurrentController.ActiveSheet.Events.ReplaceByName("OnChange", 
mEventProps())
End Sub

Sub deactivate_special_input()

ThisComponent.CurrentController.ActiveSheet.Events.ReplaceByName("OnChange", 
Array())
End Sub

I have uploaded a draft here:
www.calc-info.de/files/SpecialInput.ods

Please note the menu "Special Input" included in the file.



greetings,
Jörg



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