RE: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]

2021-10-15 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Arrigo Marchiori [mailto:ard...@yahoo.it.INVALID] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 7:08 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: API doc on web site [Was: Accessing the comment 
> object (annotation) in Draw/Impress via API]
> > the API doc is (somehow) part of the website. And what you 
> are looking for
> > is maybe here:
> > 
> > 
> https://github.com/apache/openoffice-org/blob/main/part2/conte
> nt/api/docs/common/ref/com/sun/star/office/module-ix.html
> 
> Thank you! That is what I meant.
> 
> Those pages should be generated by Autodoc, for what I understand.
> 
> Are there any scripts that do this? Or any policies on how and when to
> update the API documentation?  For example, I would suggest that each
> new release would be a good time to update the API.

-1 (for the moment)

this is only a good idea if there was a way to make backward compatibility, 
because information is needed for all OO versions, not only for the current 
version

please understand me correctly:
it's not about not changing anything, it's about not changing a whole procedure 
without careful(!) examination just because there is an incorrect entry


Jörg


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RE: [ANNOUNCE] Apache OpenOffice 4.1.11 released

2021-10-08 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo Carl, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Carl Marcum [mailto:cmar...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2021 10:21 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Fwd: [ANNOUNCE] Apache OpenOffice 4.1.11 released
> 
> Hello OpenOffice community,
> 
> We want to thank everyone who helped make this release happen.
> 
> Best regards,
> Carl
> (on behalf of the Apache OpenOffice PMC)


Sorry that I notice your post only now, I would like to thank you specifically 
for this kind of clarification.


greetings,
Jörg



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I _think_ there is an incorrect link in the release notes

2021-10-08 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

I inform you that in the release notes the wrong link 
https://bz.apache.org/ooo/buglist.cgi?list_id=233429_format=advanced=FIXED=FIXED_WITHOUT_CODE_milestone=4.1.10

is set and this link should be correct:

https://bz.apache.org/ooo/buglist.cgi?list_id=233429_format=advanced=FIXED=FIXED_WITHOUT_CODE_milestone=4.1.11


I explicitly state:
neither do I threaten to make a change to the finished release notes, nor will 
I implicitly make a change.
This email is not meant as a "poisoned email" but as a hint to something in the 
re-release-notes, which I think is factually wrong.


Jörg


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RE: Open Office Suggestion

2021-10-08 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Bidouille [mailto:ooofo...@free.fr] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2021 9:12 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Open Office Suggestion
> 
> Feature already reported: 
> https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=10864

Reading the comments, you think you are at the bug tracker of the LO project...


Jörg


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RE: Moderator für Xing-Gruppe gesucht

2021-09-30 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo *, 

ich habe Jürgen kontaktiert und er schreibt mir das XING ihn kontaktiert das 
die Gruppe wegen Inaktivität Ende Oktober gelöscht werden soll, er aber auch 
der Meinung ist das seitens XING wohl erst einmal wieder Ruhe ist.

Nachdem ich es überschlafen habe, habe ich Jürgen geschrieben das ich momentan 
_nicht_ zusagen möchte die Mopderation zu übernehmen.


Andererseits werde ich mich als Co-Moderator nicht austragen.



Gruß
Jörg




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RE: Apache OpenOffice on Xing

2021-09-30 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 7:22 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache OpenOffice on Xing
> 
> Am 30.09.21 um 13:12 schrieb Matthias Seidel:
> > On Xing Jürgen Schmidt is looking for a new moderator 
> (German speaking)
> > for the Apache OpenOffice group:
> > 
> > 
> https://www.xing.com/communities/posts/neuer-moderator-gesucht
> -1022924323?cce=emaaa97608.%3ADuB0OsqNVnj2CFA0144fAI
> > 
> > Any volunteers?

As I wrote on dev-de@: I am registered as moderator for this XING group. I will 
contact Jürgen.


The question is whether it makes sense to continue the group, because for this 
it would have to be possible to fill it with content, both on the part of those 
interested in OO and on the part of the AOO project.

It would probably be better to join forces with the LO people in a group 
anyway, but that is probably rather difficult 'politically'.


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Moderator für Xing-Gruppe gesucht

2021-09-30 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Jörg Schmidt [mailto:joe...@j-m-schmidt.de] 
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 3:42 PM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Moderator für Xing-Gruppe gesucht
> 
> Hallo Michael, *, 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 3:10 PM
> > To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> > Subject: Moderator für Xing-Gruppe gesucht
> > 
> > Hallo,
> > 
> > die Gruppe Apache OpenOffice auf xing sucht einen neuen 
> Moderator, da 
> > der bisherige wegen fehlender Möglichkeiten zur Aktivität 
> > dieses Amt in 
> > andere Hände legen möchte.
> 
> Ja, per XING hatte ich schon eine automatische Nachricht bekommen.
> 
> 
> Darf ich fragen:
> 
> Ist das die Gruppe die einstmals als Alternative zur 
> bestehenden OOo-Gruppe gegründet wurde, weil Leute von LO die 
> OOo-Gruppe quasi exklusiv für LO übernahmen? Oder hat diese 
> Gruppe einen anderen Ursprung?

ich antworte mir mal selber:

Ja, das ist offensichtlich die die Alternativgruppe und im Übrtigen stelle ich 
gerade fest das ich dort selbst als Co-Moderator(?) eingetragen bin ... ich 
habe aber dort noch nie etwas moderiert, weiß auch garnicht wie das geht.



Gruß
Jörg 


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RE: Moderator für Xing-Gruppe gesucht

2021-09-30 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo Michael, *, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 3:10 PM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Moderator für Xing-Gruppe gesucht
> 
> Hallo,
> 
> die Gruppe Apache OpenOffice auf xing sucht einen neuen Moderator, da 
> der bisherige wegen fehlender Möglichkeiten zur Aktivität 
> dieses Amt in 
> andere Hände legen möchte.

Ja, per XING hatte ich schon eine automatische Nachricht bekommen.


Darf ich fragen:

Ist das die Gruppe die einstmals als Alternative zur bestehenden OOo-Gruppe 
gegründet wurde, weil Leute von LO die OOo-Gruppe quasi exklusiv für LO 
übernahmen? Oder hat diese Gruppe einen anderen Ursprung?



Gruß
Jörg


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RE: OpenOffice needs better UI

2021-09-05 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Hao Wang, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Hao Wang [mailto:hao...@live.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2021 10:00 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: OpenOffice needs better UI

- we (you and I and all who use the mailing list here) can discuss your 
proposal but it won't become real but will remain only a thought in our heads.

-unlike Microsoft or Kingsoft, the AOO project is not a company, but a free 
software project, here only volunteers work and decide about their own actions.
It is right to make your proposal to the volunteers here, but even if your 
proposal meets with approval, that is no guarantee that it will be implemented, 
because in order to do so, people must be found who want to do it voluntarily.



Jörg


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RE: OpenOffice needs better UI

2021-09-05 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Hao Wang [mailto:hao...@live.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2021 6:41 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: OpenOffice needs better UI

> Should we create an Oo Lite edition that is small in size and 
> lightweighted as discussed in the messages ? This is actually 
> how WPS resurrected on the Chinese market. I think Oo Lite 
> could also challenge Microsoft in Europe as well. BTW, a 
> Windows edition of Oo Lite would also be a great threat to Microsoft.

Where is the problem to honestly say: an "Oo Lite edition" would please me? 
That would be a position I could share.

What I can't share is the kind of argumentation that tries to convince us of 
unrealistic chances of success for AOO, only with the obvious interest of 
wanting to push through an "Oo Lite Edition" in this way.

A little provocatively: 
Where are the Chinese developers who are interested in implementing a "Oo Lite 
edition"? _If_ it were realistic that a "Oo Lite edition" would be so overly 
successful in China, then I'm pretty sure Chinese developers would realize that 
and be willing to support AOO.



But such questions are answered automatically in a meritocratic project, 
because if there are enough people who believe in the success of a specific 
change in the program, then (not necessarily, but very likely) people will be 
found who will implement this change in practice.



Jörg



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RE: OpenOffice needs better UI

2021-09-02 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Pedro Lino [mailto:pedro.l...@mailbox.org.INVALID] 
> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 6:44 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: OpenOffice needs better UI
> 
> Hi Guy, Matthias
> 
> > On 09/02/2021 5:12 PM Guy Waterval  wrote:
> > 
> >  
> > Hello,
> > 
> > @Matthias Seidel
> > Here are some screenshots of IBM Lotus Symphony
> > https://ibm-lotus-symphony.informer.com/screenshot/
> > They had also reviewed some toolbars i.e. a single one to 
> manage forms,
> > asw..
> 
> That was a nice touch (I remembered it after looking at the 
> screenshots). The UI is the same but it had an Eclipse 
> wrapper (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Lotus_Symphony) 
> that allowed to have a document on each tab.
> 
> If anyone is interested to try there is still a Deutsch 
> version available at Chip
> https://www.chip.de/downloads/IBM-Lotus-Symphony_28856679.html

Thank you for the link.

I probably won't try Symphony, but I finally have a concrete proof of a 
multi-tab GUI based on OO, beyond the version once created at the Google Summer 
of Code.  
On one of the 2 German mailing lists a user has said several times that there 
used to be an OO version with tabs and I have always denied this because I knew 
that there was no such thing. The explanation should be that this user has used 
Symphony before.



Jörg


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RE: OpenOffice needs better UI

2021-08-31 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Nagy Ákos [mailto:a...@libreoffice.ro] 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2021 2:18 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: OpenOffice needs better UI
> 
> Hi,
> 
> in LibreOffice you can choose from 6 menu types.
> 
> If isn't attached, can view here: https://ibb.co/Ctqf8Fr

don't forget to mention the highlight of the whole thing: 
the 6 menu types can be applied arbitrarily to single applications (so Writer
other menu than Calc etc.) ... only the daily automatic menu change was 
forgotten
...

If LO still has underutilized developers, my suggestion would be to make Calc in
3D. For example, the currently selected cell floats as a cube in slight rotation
in front of the table. Not even Microsoft has something like that.
The advantage is that you can start small with adjustability for rotation
direction, speed, color of the surfaces and later also implement that in real 
time
6 videos run on the 6 cube surfaces.


scnr


Jörg





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RE: OpenOffice needs better UI

2021-08-31 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Hao Wang [mailto:hao...@live.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2021 11:26 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: OpenOffice needs better UI
> 
> I sent this message because I have had decade-long 
> experiences with OpenOffice, WPS, Microsoft Office, Mac OS's 
> own office suite and Latex. I think OpenOffice needs to 
> improve its UI if it wants to compete with its competitors. 
> In China, it's outrun by WPS and in US it's outrun by 
> Microsoft. 

With this you have wonderfully explained and justified your request, but said
exactly zero about what should be changed or improved in the OO UI.
Two of the programs mentioned (MS Office and WPS Office) have a ribbon interface
in any case. If that is your desire for the UI, then that would be clear so far.

> In China it is overtaken by WPS 

possible, I don't know the situation in China

> and in the USA by Microsoft

No, definitely not, because MS Office has always had much higher market share 
than
OpenOffice.

In Germany, for example, OpenOffice (specifically OOo) had a share of about 12% 
at
its best, while MS Office had >70%. 
The situation in the USA was never very different, rather the share of OO was a
bit smaller than in Germany.

> Even with a less-advanced technical core, a better 
> UI design can lead to much higher popularity.

That is certainly true. 
I'm just afraid that no one here is willing to put significant developer 
capacity
into the UI at the moment. 
More concretely, if someone would be interested in improving the UI, they could 
do
it, but they have to find someone who is interested first.



Jörg




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RE: OpenOffice needs better UI

2021-08-31 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Hao Wang [mailto:hao...@live.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2021 9:47 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: OpenOffice needs better UI
> 
> Dear OpenOffice devs,
> 
> OpenOffice needs better UI that gives users a sense of 
> light-weightedness and modernity. Currently the UI is too heavy.

What is meant by this? Is it about so-called "ribbons" or is the question to be
understood more comprehensively?

I ask because: I personally don't like ribbons (which is no argument) and I 
can't
see that ribbons improve the operating efficiency.
On the other hand, it would be interesting to hear suggestions if they mediate
something other than "ribbons".


greetings,
Jörg


btw.:
What has become of this?
https://www.computer-blog.net/software/open-office-neue-bedienoberflache/


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RE: Open office Fehler Calculation

2021-08-30 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: WSpaeth [mailto:gdwspa...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2021 3:16 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Open office Fehler Calculation
> 
> Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,
> [...]

Hallo,

Sie befinden sich hier auf einer englischsprachigen Entwicklerliste. Sie 
sollten Ihre Frage besser auf der deutschsprachigen Mailingliste für 
Endanwender stellen:
https://www.openoffice.org/de/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html

Inhaltlich kann ich nur wenig zu ihrem Problem sagen, denn dazu fehlen wichtige 
Angaben, insbesondere ob der Fehler nur bei bestimmten oder allen 
Calc-Dokumenten auftritt und falls nur bei nestimmten Dokumenten, dann eine 
Information welchen Inhalt diese Dokumente haben.


Gruß
Jörg


Hello,

You are here on an english developer list. You should be better ask your 
question on the German-language mailing list for end users:
https://www.openoffice.org/de/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html

I can't say much about your problem, because important information is missing, 
especially whether the error occurs only with certain or all Calc documents, 
and if only with certain documents, then some information about the content of 
these documents.


Greetings
Jörg





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Probleme AOO 4.1.x unter UBUNTU (Evtl. generell unter Linux)

2021-08-20 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo *,
Hallo Michael,

kann mal jemand mit Linux-Erfahrung auf diesen Thread hier sehen:
http://de.openoffice.info/viewtopic.php?f=1=75873

Ich (im Forum "Stephan") habe reichlich Erfahrung mit solchen Problemen und 
habe eigentlich nicht dem Anwender geglaubt das ein generelles Problem 
vorliegt, sondern war überzeugt es ist was mit der Datei oder dem 
OO-Benutzerverzeichnis. 

Nach einigem Testen komme ich aber auch zu der Einsicht da muss etwas mit OO 
oder UBUNTU oder deren Kombination sein. Leider habe ich bisher kein klares 
Absturzszenario gefunden, sondern es gilt: verändert das Testdokument etwas und 
wie mir scheint hilft es zwischendurch die Seitenansicht einzuschalten und bei 
Schliessen (egal mit oder ohne Speichern) kommt dann (in vielleicht der Häfte 
der Fälle) der Fehler.

Mit "OpenOffice4" mittels Terminal gestartet kommen nur wenige Hinweise, der 
einzige Substanzielle ist wohl 'failed to load 'canberra-gtk-module'.


Mein Testsystem ist ein frisches UBUNTU 20.04.1 mit AOO 4.1.10. 


Der Anwender habe ich gebeten einen Issue einzureichen.



Gruß
Jörg



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RE: A free project does not need distorting propaganda

2021-08-19 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Jörg Schmidt [mailto:joe...@j-m-schmidt.de] 
> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2021 6:39 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: RE: A free project does not need distorting propaganda
> 
> Hello Pedro, 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Pedro Lino [mailto:pedro.l...@mailbox.org.INVALID] 
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 11:31 PM
> > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: A free project does not need distorting propaganda
> > 
> > Hi Joerg
> > 
> > > On 08/18/2021 8:46 PM Jörg Schmidt  wrote:
> >  
> > > I hereby ask to remove the distorting statement from the 
> > page https://live.froscon.de/partner/openoffice again.
> > 
> > I don't see any mention to StarOffice so correcting the 
> > sentence to "20 years" instead of 30 would solve the problem?
> 
> Yes, correcting this number would eliminate the problem completely.

I would like to add/clarify the following:

it is not necessarily about a number, but it is about distinguishing free 
software from proprietary software appropriately and it is about focusing our 
emphasis in the public presentation of our project on what is important to us 
as a free software project.
Any wording that ensures this emphasis is fine with me (even if it contains the 
number 30).


Jörg


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RE: A free project does not need distorting propaganda

2021-08-18 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello *, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Simon Phipps [mailto:si...@webmink.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2021 12:42 AM
> To: dev
> Subject: Re: A free project does not need distorting propaganda

> The code demonstrably has starting points that are 30 years 
> old as stated.
> For example, see /main/tools/source/generic/gen.cxx
>  2ff5f17cc0127551a8f62/main/tools/source/generic/gen.cxx>
> which includes plenty of code from the early 90s, including 
> the various
> methods for Rectangle created 19.03.90 by Thomas Hosemann at 
> and after line
> 312.
> 
> Apache OpenOffice and LibreOffice have a heritage that demonstrably
> stretches past their inception, past the inception of their 
> predecessor
> OpenOffice.org, back 30+ years of continuously-improved source code,
> arguably right back to the Z80 code Marco wrote in 1985 
> (although that is
> not claimed here).  Even with outdated code and comments 
> removed (as has
> largely happened in LibreOffice) we still have a Ship of 
> Theseus situation.
> The statement for FrOSCon seems perfectly sound to me.

No, not perfect, but only possibly not formally wrong.

You really think it's a good style to refer us to proprietary software?
For what specific purpose? What do we gain by a visibly quite constructed age 
extension?

I will tell you what we lose: a part of straightforwardness and truthfulness 
that so far pleasantly distinguishes us from LibreOffice.
Why should we go down this path, what concrete use is it to us? What is 
important to us and what less?

The ASF is a foundation under US law, perhaps my concern becomes clearer when I 
ask: 
What are the citizens of the USA proud of first and foremost? Their 
independence or the fact that they came from old Europe? The Europe they left 
because they sought freedom.

We have the choice to publicly emphasize what is important to us, freedom or 
formal technical connections with an unfree software.


greetings,
Jörg





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RE: A free project does not need distorting propaganda

2021-08-18 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Pedro, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Pedro Lino [mailto:pedro.l...@mailbox.org.INVALID] 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 11:31 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: A free project does not need distorting propaganda
> 
> Hi Joerg
> 
> > On 08/18/2021 8:46 PM Jörg Schmidt  wrote:
>  
> > I hereby ask to remove the distorting statement from the 
> page https://live.froscon.de/partner/openoffice again.
> 
> I don't see any mention to StarOffice so correcting the 
> sentence to "20 years" instead of 30 would solve the problem?

Yes, correcting this number would eliminate the problem completely.


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: A free project does not need distorting propaganda

2021-08-18 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

> -Original Message-
> From: Simon Phipps [mailto:si...@webmink.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 10:03 PM
> To: dev
> Subject: Re: A free project does not need distorting propaganda
> 
> Hi!
> 
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 8:46 PM Jörg Schmidt 
>  wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > to my dismay I read, from a PMC member, on 
> users...@openoffice.apache.org
> > that they are trying to mix up our free OpenOffice with the former
> > proprietary StarWriter. Obviously purely for the sake of 
> show and obviously
> > also in ignorance of the facts.
> >
> > As someone who has been volunteering in the OO project (OOo 
> and AOO) for
> > 15 years, I want to make my opinion clear:
> > We have such propaganda not necessary, but us by honest 
> work on a free
> > software, since OOo 1.0.0, is completely sufficient.
> > Personally I would like to make clear that such a kind of 
> profiling by
> > propaganda, will not be supported by me, neither now nor in 
> the future.
> >
> >
> > I hereby ask to remove the distorting statement from the page
> > https://live.froscon.de/partner/openoffice again.
> >
> 
> Can you be more detailed what problem you see please? 

The free project OOo was launched, formally, on 13.10.2000. Since then, 
OpenOffice has existed for about 20 years (not 30).

StarOffice, on the other hand, has been a proprietary project, which we should 
by no means mix with OpenOffice.
Any claim that a continuous code base down to StarWriter for DOS could exist is 
technically and factually absurd, because there is no technical continuation of 
the DOS code base of Starwriter and also the code base at the transition from 
StarOffice 5.x to StarOffice 6.0/OOo 1.0.0 was renewed by SUN Microsystems so 
seriously that factually there is no continuity of e.g. API or file format.

> I 
> visited the page
> and I can't see an obvious error of a nature to cause such dismay.

I personally accompanied the complete development from OOo 1.0.0 to AOO 4.1.10 
as a volunteer and was professionally involved in many important migration 
projects in Germany.
I had to experience which caesura the separation from LO represented and which 
damage OO and LO in sum by the partly untrue propaganda on the part of the TDF, 
in addition to the weakening by the fork itself, resulted.

AOO can shine with its own performance and is not dependent on cheap, 
propagandistic exaggeration.

Who really believes that statements that are doubtful could benefit us is 
mistaken and I think it is important to contradict such developments, as long 
as they are still correctable. Personally, I would like to point out again that 
I will not remain silent about such things, also because my loyalty as a 
committer of the ASF is not to support half-truths.

My request to correct the page in question may not please everyone, but it is a 
moderate request.



greetings,
Jörg


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A free project does not need distorting propaganda

2021-08-18 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

to my dismay I read, from a PMC member, on users...@openoffice.apache.org that 
they are trying to mix up our free OpenOffice with the former proprietary 
StarWriter. Obviously purely for the sake of show and obviously also in 
ignorance of the facts.

As someone who has been volunteering in the OO project (OOo and AOO) for 15 
years, I want to make my opinion clear:
We have such propaganda not necessary, but us by honest work on a free 
software, since OOo 1.0.0, is completely sufficient.
Personally I would like to make clear that such a kind of profiling by 
propaganda, will not be supported by me, neither now nor in the future.


I hereby ask to remove the distorting statement from the page 
https://live.froscon.de/partner/openoffice again.




greetings,
Jörg


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RE: About OpenJDK

2021-08-16 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Pedro Lino [mailto:pedro.l...@mailbox.org.INVALID] 
> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 7:17 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: About OpenJDK


> > That said: Of course having AOO only a in 32-bit for 
> Windows isn't optimal.
> 
> 32-bit AOO is perfectly fine for most (all?) users. The 
> problem is that Microsoft convinced users that 64 is better 
> than 32 (using the same "bigger is better" logic vendors use 
> to sell digital cameras, mobile phones, etc.)

I fear the problems are deeper and Microsoft is now neglecting the 32-bit track 
in Windows 10 updates.
In any case, I have observed for years with professional AOO users, from the 
free economy, again and again, difficult to clarify, problems with AOO after 
Windows updates.
Workaround was already many times the use of older OpenOffice portable 
versions, but this is not a permanent solution. 


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: OpenOffice 4.1.10 crashes when loading .odm file

2021-08-06 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Matthias Seidel [mailto:matthias.sei...@hamburg.de] 
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2021 11:11 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: OpenOffice 4.1.10 crashes when loading .odm file
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Maybe it is "just" a corrupt AOO profile?
> 
> Unfortunately I don't know how (where) to rename it on macOS...

with the help of this file (sorry, only in german) you can determine the 
appropriate directory:
http://de.openoffice.info/viewtopic.php?f=25=68255#p270033


Jörg


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RE: Apache OpenOffice als Schulsoftware

2021-08-06 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo Frau Wawrzyniak,

> PrOO-Box nehme ich gerne mit auf, wenn eine Schule ein 
> Hilfsangebot zu der Software einträgt.

Als einer der ehrenamtlich bei der ProOO-Box Aktiven, möchte ich hierzu fragen:

die ProOO-Box ist keine eigene "Software" sondern, gewissermaßen ähnlich wie 
OOo4Kids, ein Projekt das Unterstützung für Anwender von OpenOffice bietet. 

Vielleicht können Sie innerhalb des OpenOffice-Eintrags auf die ProOO-Box 
hinweisen, denn ein eigenständiger Eintrag für die ProOO-Box würde deren 
Bedeutung eigentlich überbetonen und wäre noch nicht einmal nützlich für 
hilfessuchende Schulen, denn "ProOO-Box" allein wirft wohl immer zuerst die 
Frage auf 'Was ist das denn?', hingegen "ProOO-Box" innerhalb des 
OpenOffice-Eintrags ist auf den ersten Blick verständlich als 'da ist jemand 
der etwas zu OpenOffice anbietet'.

Falls Ihnen ein konkreter Ansprechpartner wichtig wäre, kann ich gerne bei uns 
im Team klären, wer dafür zur Verfügung stehen möchte.


Mit freundlichen Grüßen
aus der Region Berlin

Jörg Schmidt   



> -Original Message-
> From: Jessica Wawrzyniak via Digitalcourage e.V. 
> Ticket-System [mailto:m...@digitalcourage.de] 
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2021 10:26 AM
> To: Dr. Michael Stehmann
> Cc: dev-de
> Subject: Re: Apache OpenOffice als Schulsoftware
> 
> Lieber Herr Stehmann,
> 
> vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht, das Lob und die kleine Korrektur!
> 
> Ich habe den besagten Satz gestrichen. Sie haben Recht, dass 
> der etwas irreführend war.
> 
> PrOO-Box nehme ich gerne mit auf, wenn eine Schule ein 
> Hilfsangebot zu der Software einträgt. Grundsätzlich ist die 
> Software-Liste natürlich nicht vollständig, sondern ein 
> Abbild dessen, was an Schulen eingesetzt wird. Die 
> Freitextfelder in unserem Webformular werden auch rege 
> genutzt, sodass die Auswahl immer weiter wächst, was uns sehr freut!
> 
> Wir freuen uns natürlich auch, wenn Sie das Netzwerk Freie 
> Schulsoftware über Ihre Kanäle weiterverbreiten: 
> https://digitalcourage.de/netzwerk-freie-schulsoftware
> 
> Liebe Grüße
> aus Bielefeld
> Jessica Wawrzyniak
> 
> 
> -- 
> ▶︎Digitalcourage e.V., Marktstr. 18, D-33602 Bielefeld 
> 
> Tel: +49-521-1639 1639 | Fax: 0521-61172 | [1]m...@digitalcourage.de
> [2]https://digitalcourage.de | [3]http://bigbrotherawards.de |
> --
> --
> Für Bürgerrechte, Datenschutz
> und eine lebenswerte Welt im digitalen Zeitalter.
> --
> --
> Online spenden: [4]https://digitalcourage.de/spende/
> 
> 
> [1] mailto:m...@digitalcourage.de
> [2] https://digitalcourage.de
> [3] http://bigbrotherawards.de
> [4] https://digitalcourage.de/spende/
> 
> 
> 05.08.2021 22:15 - Dr. Michael Stehmann schrieb:
> 
> > Hallo,
> > 
> > zunächst einmal möchte ich es nicht versäumen, Sie für Ihr 
> Engagement 
> > und Ihre Initiative für das Projekt "Netzwerk Freie Schulsoftware – 
> > Schulen helfen Schulen" zu loben. Sie haben ein wichtiges Anliegen 
> > aufgegriffen. Ich wünsche Ihnen und uns als 
> Freie-Software-Community 
> > viel Erfolg.
> > 
> > Ich möchte Ihnen - gerade weil ich Ihrem Projekt großes 
> öffentliches 
> > Interesse wünsche - einen kleinen Verbesserungsvorschlag 
> unterbreiten:
> > 
> > Unter
> > 
> > https://digitalcourage.de/netzwerk-freie-schulsoftware#O-Software
> > 
> > "Open Office/OOo4Kids"
> > 
> > findet sich der Satz "Weitgehend abgelöst durch Libre Office."
> > 
> > Dieser ist mißverständlich.
> > 
> > Zum Hintergrund:
> > 
> > Apache OpenOffice, wie das Projekt und die Software korrekt 
> heißen, ist 
> > ein Apache-Top-Level-Projekt und weiterhin die führende Freie 
> > Bürosoftware. Apache OpenOffice ist das Ergebnis kontinuierlicher 
> > Softwareentwicklung seit über drei Jahrzehnten und bereits 
> > vielmillionenfach im Gebrauch (insgesamt mehr als 
> 310.000.000 Downloads).
> > 
> > Auch aktuelle Downloadzahlen beweisen die anhaltend hohe 
> Popularität 
> > dieser Anwendung.
> > 
> > Apache OpenOffice hat zuletzt die Version 4.1.10 veröffentlicht und 
> > bereitet aktuell die Version 4.2 vor.
> > 
> > LibreOffice ist ein Fork von OpenOffice und eigenständig. Zwar 
> > reklamieren einige gerne, LibreOffice sei der "wahre 
> Nachfolger" von 
> > openooffice.org, wie das Projekt früher hieß, aber diese Sicht ist 
> > angesichts der Faktenlage eher als einse

RE: falsche Fakten zu OO auf https://digitalcourage.de/ - Was sollten wir tun?

2021-08-02 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2021 10:12 AM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: falsche Fakten zu OO auf 
> https://digitalcourage.de/ - Was sollten wir tun?
> 
> Done.

_well_ done.

Danke.


Wenn ich irgendwann Zeit finde werde ich aber noch nach möglichen weiteren 
Infos recherchieren (bei wikipedia orakelt man ja zur LO-Marktverbreitung ganz 
geschickt) und auch einmal ein wenig eigene Statistik mit den Download-Zahlen 
anstellen.




Gruß
Jörg


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RE: falsche Fakten zu OO auf https://digitalcourage.de/ - Was sollten wir tun?

2021-08-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave [mailto:davepo...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2021 11:52 AM
> To: dev-de
> Subject: Re: falsche Fakten zu OO auf 
> https://digitalcourage.de/ - Was sollten wir tun?
> 
> Jedenfalls reagieren. 

klar, wenn ich das nicht beabsichtigen würde, hätte ich garnicht erst gefragt.

Aktuell habe ich mich an die internationale dev-Liste gewandt in der Hoffnung 
das dort jemand statische Daten kennt die über die Downloadzahlen hinausgehen 
(bei OpenOffice.org hatten wir früher einen solchen Datenpool), denn das wäre 
natürlich hilfreich.



Gruß
Jörg


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What information do we know about the market penetration of AOO?

2021-08-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

back in the days of OpenOffice.org, there was a well-maintained pool of 
information about the market penetration of OpenOffice.org (links to market 
research, third-party analysis, etc.).

I would like to ask if anyone, beyond the bare download numbers, knows of 
similar information on AOO?
Does anyone know if possibly the ASF collects/archives information on this?


greetings,
Jörg



Note:
unfortunately, as an AOO project, we do not have any effective marketing 
activities, which is why I am not sending this email to 
market...@openoffice.apache.org, because there is no one there (I have been 
subscribing to market...@openoffice.apache.org for years and I know that no 
emails come through it).


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falsche Fakten zu OO auf https://digitalcourage.de/ - Was sollten wir tun?

2021-08-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo,

ich finde auf digitalcourage.de folgende Aussage zu OpenOffice [1]:

"Open Office/[...]

[...] Weitgehend abgelöst durch Libre Office. [...]



[1]
https://digitalcourage.de/netzwerk-freie-schulsoftware#O-Software




Wie wollen wir als deutsche AOO-Community darauf reagieren?



Gruß
Jörg



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RE: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 10 Pro 21H1

2021-07-22 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Bidouille [mailto:ooofo...@free.fr] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2021 9:12 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 
> 10 Pro 21H1
> 
> Start Windows in safe mode 

and then?

... well, I started Windows in safe mode, AOO still does not recognize JRE 
1.8.0_291.


I had also, already yesterday, repeated the installation of Windows and JRE and 
AOO (in VMWare) and can only write that the problem is clearly reproducible 
with me. Why it occurs I do not know.



Jörg


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RE: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 10 Pro 21H1

2021-07-20 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Rony G. Flatscher (Apache) [mailto:r...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 2:46 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 
> 10 Pro 21H1
> 
> On 17.07.2021 10:42, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> > 2.
> > JRE 1.8.0_291 is not recognized by OO and cannot be 
> activated - even if I first install JRE and then AOO it is like this.
> > (In the forum http://de.openoffice.info it is however 
> reported by a user that he uses 1.8.0_291 in AOO 4.1.10, 
> perhaps the problem occurs only with 21H1 of Windows 10).
> >
> > JRE 1.7.0_71 on the other hand is recognized without 
> problems (even when installing after AOO) and can be activated.
> 
> Could it be that JRE 1.8.0_291 is blocked? Cf. e.g.
> <https://winaero.com/how-to-unblock-files-downloaded-from-inte
> rnet-in-windows-10/> .

I have read through this, but this does not apply to me, because there were no 
problems with the download and installation, also Java 1.8.0_291 is entered in 
the SYstemsteuerung as "activated".

On the command line (cmd.exe), returns:

Java -version

the display:

java version "1.8.0_291"



Jörg


Note:
that Java 1.8.0_291 is not recognized by AOO is annoying, but no problem, 
because the other Java version is recognized. Also, I do not use Win 10 
productively, but only for testing, so I am not dependent on it.
My thread here was _not_ intended to _ask for support_, but I wanted to report 
the problem with Java, since Win 10 21H1 is fairly new and I thought the 
problem could be general, especially since my system was installed very fresh.
However, it seems that the observed problem is not general, but occurs only 
with me (for whatever reason), so we can put the discussion to sleep.




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RE: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 10 Pro 21H1

2021-07-20 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Mechtilde,

> -Original Message-
> From: Mechtilde [mailto:o...@mechtilde.de] 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 3:02 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 
> 10 Pro 21H1
> 
> Hello Jörg,
> 
> please look under C:\Programme (c86) or the corresponding 
> directory for
> a directory java.

Java.exe is in:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre 1.8.0_291\bin\


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 10 Pro 21H1

2021-07-19 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Bidouille [mailto:ooofo...@free.fr] 
> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 4:26 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 
> 10 Pro 21H1
> 
> 
> Reset the user profile and try again

That's the very first thing I have done.


Jörg


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RE: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 10 Pro 21H1

2021-07-19 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Pedro, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Pedro Lino [mailto:pedro.l...@mailbox.org.INVALID] 
> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 11:36 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 
> 10 Pro 21H1
> 
> Hi Jörg
> 
> > On 07/17/2021 9:42 AM Jörg Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> > JRE 1.8.0_291 is not recognized by OO and cannot be 
> activated - even if I first install JRE and then AOO it is like this.
> > (In the forum http://de.openoffice.info it is however 
> reported by a user that he uses 1.8.0_291 in AOO 4.1.10, 
> perhaps the problem occurs only with 21H1 of Windows 10).
> 
> JRE 1.8.0.291 (32 bits) works perfectly on my Win 10 21H1 
> laptop and is recognized by AOO 4.1.10
> Make sure that you download the i586 installer

Yes, I know that and I use the correct file:

jre-8u291-windows-i586.exe


No idea why it does not work. Also my Windows installation is newly created (I 
use VMWare for testing).


greetings,
Jörg


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Some observations about AOO 4.1.10 and Windows 10 Pro 21H1

2021-07-17 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

On a fresh installation of Win 10 Pro 21H1 and AOO 4.1.10, I was able to 
observe:

1.
In the Control Panel (in german: "Systemsteuerung") under "Programs and 
Features", when trying to repair the AOO installation by clicking on "Repair" 
(above the list of all installed programs), an error message appears prompting 
you to exit the OO Quickstarter. However, the OO Quickstarter is not running at 
all.
(Workaround is to click on "Change", then you can choose "Repair" in the 
installer dialog afterwards).

2.
JRE 1.8.0_291 is not recognized by OO and cannot be activated - even if I first 
install JRE and then AOO it is like this.
(In the forum http://de.openoffice.info it is however reported by a user that 
he uses 1.8.0_291 in AOO 4.1.10, perhaps the problem occurs only with 21H1 of 
Windows 10).

JRE 1.7.0_71 on the other hand is recognized without problems (even when 
installing after AOO) and can be activated.



greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Enhancement request from Facebook

2021-06-16 Thread Jörg Schmidt
hello, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 4:12 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Enhancement request from Facebook
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> We have the issue 20655 [1] which is about a setting on how many last 
> documents are kept.
> 
> Does anyone have pointers what to do? Where would we add this setting?

Yes, install the appropriate extension, which already existed when Apache 
OpenOffice was still called OpenOffice.org. 
In the meantime there seem to be even 3:
https://extensions.openoffice.org/en/project/history-master
https://extensions.openoffice.org/en/project/advanced-history-manager-manage-list-recentpreviously-opened-files
https://extensions.openoffice.org/en/project/history-master




Jörg


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RE: Changing default rounding in Writer Tables

2021-06-10 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Dean.Webber [mailto:2018001...@student.sit.ac.nz] 
> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 2:07 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Changing default rounding in Writer Tables
> 
> Dear Devs,
> 
> How hard would it be to change the default rounding in the 
> tables to the entered value or similar. Or perhaps, can I 
> change it to accept text as an entry by default (ie in settings)...

You can change this as you wish by defining a standard document template for 
Calc
and adjusting the settings there.

(a)
In the menu: Format-->Styles and Formatting, select the cell template "Default" 
in
the appearing dialog and in the context menu of this template set the desired 
cell
formatting in the tab "Numbers".

(b)
Then call up the menu: File-Templates-Save and save the document as a template.

(c)
Finally call: File-Template-Organize, search for the newly saved template, 
create
the context menu and select the entry "Set as default Template".

Done.


>From now on the cell format in all new documents will be as you just set it in
(a).


Jörg



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RE: Where can I get help with a complicated menu problem (API)?

2021-06-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2021 4:36 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Where can I get help with a complicated menu 
> problem (API)?

> In this thread
> [url]https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20;
> t=99632[/url]

Thanks, I will take a look.


Jörg


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RE: Where can I get help with a complicated menu problem (API)?

2021-06-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Peter, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2021 9:16 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Where can I get help with a complicated menu 
> problem (API)?
> 
> Hello Jörg,
> 
> I have passed the extension you have provided to the person 
> who asked on 
> Facebook.
> 
> The Answer was:
> 
> "Thank you so much! This works perfectly. [...]
> I never expected anyone to pay attention to my question, but you did. 
> AND you went above and beyond. I am honored and impressed.
> 
> I wanted to leave positive feedback for the extension, but I 
> didn't see 
> anywhere to do so.
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
> i'm just incredibly happy to havethe extension. i've been 
> bragging about 
> OO to everybody because you paid attention to me and actually had an 
> extension created. i think people will be really happy with 
> it once they 
> realize that it exists. as a numbers person, it is a must have."

Good publicity for Openoffice

> So if you have time please release it on extensions, so she 
> can rate it. 

What do you think Peter, should I do that at this point in time?

OK, the extension works, but it's only a prototype at the moment and above all 
we had thought about releasing more language localizations.



greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Where can I get help with a complicated menu problem (API)?

2021-06-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2021 9:47 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Where can I get help with a complicated menu 
> problem (API)?

> This is not an immediate answer, but I note that the 
> checkmark mechanism is available in (inter alia) Writer, on 
> the View menu, for selection of toolbars and viewing of Text 
> boundaries and Sidebar.  A quick search threw up this
> [url]https://www.openoffice.org/api/docs/common/ref/com/sun/st
ar/mozilla/MenuMultipleChange.html[/url]

Yes. Thank you, but ...

... this is a similar link I already received in the forum
(https://www.openoffice.org/api/docs/common/ref/com/sun/star/awt/XPopupMenu.html)
and unfortunately it is not enough for me to develop a solution myself.


greetings,
Jörg


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Where can I get help with a complicated menu problem (API)?

2021-06-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

Peter had asked me to write a small extension, which I did. For the meaningful 
operation of the extension it would be necessary to be able to set a check mark 
at a, self-defined, menu item.
The question is formulated here more exactly (and the short answer there does 
not help me unfortunately):
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20=105315#p511270


Can someone help me?

My hope is that someone knows who used to work as a programmer at OOo/SUN with 
a focus on menus and can still be contacted today. 


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Many subpages of the de-website not reachable anymore?

2021-05-23 Thread Jörg Schmidt


> -Original Message-
> From: Matthias Seidel [mailto:matthias.sei...@hamburg.de] 
> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2021 1:40 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Many subpages of the de-website not reachable anymore?
> 
> Hi Dick,
> 
> Am 23.05.21 um 13:21 schrieb Dick Groskamp:
> >
> > On 2021/05/23 10:18:48, Jörg Schmidt  wrote: 
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: Dick Groskamp [mailto:di...@apache.org] 
> >>> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2021 12:09 PM
> >>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >>> Subject: Re: RE: Many subpages of the de-website not 
> >>> reachable anymore?
> >>> Could it be that 
> >>> https://www.openoffice.org/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html 
> >>> (without de in the link) doesn't exists ?
> >> Yes. This is exactly the cause. That's why I wrote that 
> the national pages are not uniform and can not be treated the same.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jörg
> > OK, I probably found the cause.
> > it is in index.html.
> >
> > This part:
> >   
> > 
> >   
> > Ich bentige Hilfe zu OpenOffice
> >
> > picks up: https://www.openoffice.org/about-ooo/mailinglist.html
> 
> Thank you for your help. Yes, that should be a relative path. 
> Fixed now!
> 
> Should be visible in 15 minutes.

... and it works. Thank you.


Jörg


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RE: Many subpages of the de-website not reachable anymore?

2021-05-23 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:w...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2021 1:00 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Many subpages of the de-website not reachable anymore?
> 
> Hey -
> 
> The page shows for me:
> 
> https://github.com/apache/openoffice-org/blob/main/content/de/
> about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html
> 
> https://de.openoffice.org/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html
> 
> Redirects to
> 
> https://www.openoffice.org/de/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html


Yes, but https://www.openoffice.org/de/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html does 
not.



The problem seems to me to be the overall behavior, which runs as follows:

1.
Go to https://www.openoffice.org/

2.
In a German localized system you will now see on this page the notice:
"Diese Webseite gibt es auch in Deutsch (de). Einfach auf diesen Text klicken, 
um weitergeleitet zu werden."

3.
If you click on this hint, you will be redirected to:
https://www.openoffice.org/de/

and _not_ to:
https://de.openoffice.org


 

Jörg


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RE: RE: Many subpages of the de-website not reachable anymore?

2021-05-23 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Dick Groskamp [mailto:di...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2021 12:09 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: RE: Many subpages of the de-website not 
> reachable anymore?

> Could it be that 
> https://www.openoffice.org/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html 
> (without de in the link) doesn't exists ?

Yes. This is exactly the cause. That's why I wrote that the national pages are 
not uniform and can not be treated the same.



Jörg


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RE: Many subpages of the de-website not reachable anymore?

2021-05-23 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Peter, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2021 11:35 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Many subpages of the de-website not reachable anymore?
> 
> Hello Jörg,
> 
> 
> I am not sure what is wrong. The link at [1] works for me. I see no 
> differences to the archive., Also the History at [2] does not 
> show any 
> changes.
> 
>  From which link do you start or which one is broken?

i start from "Ich benötige Hilfe zu OpenOffice", and the Link is:

https://www.openoffice.org/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html

without "de" in the link.


(I hope that this is just a carelessness error and not related to a schematic 
approach to the CMS conversion, because I have always warned about the 
consequences of the latter, because the national sites are not uniform.)


greetings,
Jörg


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Many subpages of the de-website not reachable anymore?

2021-05-23 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

I see that important pages have completely disappeared.

Here is a link of an (old) page that shows the right side menu of the de-SEites:
https://web.archive.org/web/20200525211720/http://www.openoffice.org/de/about-ooo/about-mailinglist.html

How do I currently reach all the pages linked there? 

For example, how do I reach the German documentation? How e.g. do I reach the 
german Issuzilla introduction? How e.g. do I reach the German informations 
about the German users mailinglist? How  many other pages more?




greetings,
Jörg


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RE: [discussion] use of https://downloads.apache.org/ as a download page

2021-05-02 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2021 12:39 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: [discussion] use of https://downloads.apache.org/ as 
> a download page
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> 
> In the past we have discouraged the use of 
> https://downloads.apache.org/ 
> because of Infra.
> 
> I had a discussion with Humbedooh if this is still the case. And the 
> discussion outcome is, hat they only need a view days to 
> adjust in order 
> to be able to secure the service.

These are very good perspectives. 

> 
> It may be that on peak times the download speed drops, but traffic or 
> the amount of downloads is not a topic.
> 
> A topic will be to obtain statistics. I have not discussed 
> this yet. But 
> the data is not publicly available, and I so far obtained only a list 
> from last week, because I figured that some are already 
> promoting the link.
> 
> (With about 6k of download on friday, 4k on thursday, and 500 on 
> wednseday. (thursday I figured that some sites announced 
> 4.1.10. (They 
> even link the draft release notes :P )
> 
> 
> So what do you think? Should we promote the alternate link with this 
> release more publicly maybe on Forums and go for a transition to a 
> different download policy?

+1

... and "go for a transition to a different download policy" is, in my eyes, a 
successful formulation/goal setting. 


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: How to recruit [Was: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position]

2021-04-30 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Arrigo, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Arrigo Marchiori [mailto:ard...@yahoo.it.INVALID] 
> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 1:30 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: How to recruit [Was: Feature: automatic enter of 
> a decimal point at a fixed position]

> > Where can I find an archive of this list so I can look at it?
> 
> The list was recently renamed, therefore the archives are 
> split in two.
> 
> New list: 
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-volunteer/
> Old list: 
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-recruitment/

thank you

> > > If so, I would appreciate your (possibly constructive :-) 
> criticism,
> > > as I tried to reply to a couple of people but I do not 
> seem to have
> > > had any success so far.
> > 
> > My, described, personal experiences come from the time of 
> OOo [!], the problem was then, however, almost identical to 
> the situation today:
> > Too many experienced people don't understand that 
> newcomers, who have no FOSS project experience, don't 
> understand the meritocratic way of working and therefore 
> misunderstand the liberal request 'find yourself the part of 
> the project you want to work on' as 'I don't feel like giving 
> you concrete help'.
> > 
> > It is our mistake to pretend to deprive the newcomers of 
> their freedom, only if we assign them concrete work. And I 
> name this mistake by saying that we raise the tool (!) 
> "meritocracy" to the status of a religion.  
> 
> I agree that an initial bit of guidance is useful, but I am not
> sure I understand your very last point.

I'm afraid you don't understand my complete statement, because the first part 
is not specifically about guidance, but about assigning tasks.

You should not misunderstand "assigning tasks" as giving orders, but as the way 
experienced project members give advice on which tasks they should start with.

What is regularly done, however, is something different, namely telling the 
newcomers to choose for themselves what they want to do (in the 'tone of voice' 
'they MUST choose for themselves what they want to do').
And this happens out of the schematism that some think that any steering of the 
interests of newcomers would already run counter to the idea of meritocracy. 
And this view I called "religion", you can also call it "dogmatic", in any case 
it harms the project.

I give an example:
Peter's answer ([1]) to [2] was undoubtedly friendly, but it was general and 
without concrete benefits for a newcomer, who actually wants one thing above 
all: 
he initial wants to do something concrete and thereby get to know the project.

What did I do? I invited Fabio to the ProOO-box (www.prooo-box.org) and told 
him specifically where we need help and explained to him what he must consider 
and how he must proceed if he wants to follow our request. 
This means that I gave Fabio a concrete path for his first steps in the project.
It doesn't mean that Fabio has to follow my suggestion, but probably he will do 
it voluntarily, because he is happy to know that he is doing something useful 
for the project.

[1]
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-dev-de/202103.mbox/%3C343ed415-9307-c63a-bd9d-ac80ca2689b1%40apache.org%3E

[2]
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-volunteer/202103.mbox/%3C001201d71e34%24542fcb30%24fc8f6190%24%40holdoffice.com%3E

 


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: How to recruit [Was: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position]

2021-04-30 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Arrigo Marchiori [mailto:ard...@yahoo.it.INVALID] 
> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 8:13 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: How to recruit [Was: Feature: automatic enter of a 
> decimal point at a fixed position]

> Are you subscribed to the recruitment - volunteering list?

No, I'm not.

Where can I find an archive of this list so I can look at it?

> If so, I would appreciate your (possibly constructive :-) criticism,
> as I tried to reply to a couple of people but I do not seem to have
> had any success so far.

My, described, personal experiences come from the time of OOo [!], the problem 
was then, however, almost identical to the situation today:
Too many experienced people don't understand that newcomers, who have no FOSS 
project experience, don't understand the meritocratic way of working and 
therefore misunderstand the liberal request 'find yourself the part of the 
project you want to work on' as 'I don't feel like giving you concrete help'.

It is our mistake to pretend to deprive the newcomers of their freedom, only if 
we assign them concrete work. And I name this mistake by saying that we raise 
the tool (!) "meritocracy" to the status of a religion.  


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-29 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 10:32 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> fixed position

> > If we want to attract people who are not yet sure if they 
> want to work permanently, I'm afraid we have to find ways to 
> make it even easier to get involved.
> +1, lowering the barrier is hard.

Well, it may be laborious to overcome the hurdles, but it is not difficult.
One way would be for someone to feel responsible for the newcomers and give 
them concrete support in their first steps in the project. But I've been having 
this discussion for 15 years now, and it's regularly put down by the fact that 
such support for newcomers would potentially be interference.

e.g. I personally would never have found my way to OpenOffice if I had been 
fobbed off as a newcomer by being told I have free choice in what I want to do 
- no, I owe my being here to people like Andre, Thomas or Eric who had the 
right human feeling to give me hints at the beginning which tasks would be 
suitable for me.



greetings,
Jörg




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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-29 Thread Jörg Schmidt
an addendum:

> can we publish the code on github?

I have nothing against the publication of the code, but the code is completely 
banal and was written in 5 minutes.
I'm not familiar with Git and don't think it's necessary to learn Git at the 
moment just because of this one tool for Calc - so no, I don't intend to 
publish the code in Git. Perhaps the need for it will arise in the future, then 
I will think about it again.


Jörg 


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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-29 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:wave4d...@comcast.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 10:14 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> fixed position

> > I think a good approach is the Scrum backlog 
> prioritization. A issue up the list, may be ranked as 
> important, but still a developer can pick a lower ranked 
> backlog point, if he can fix it, but not the above ones.
> > 
> > And maybe a higher one needs some sort of support, 
> additional information, research for it to be fixed. Not 
> every Issue takes the same skill or experience.
> 
> Making a list of easy to fix issues for developers new to 
> OpenOffice would help recruitment.

+1 ... right, but I don't think that's enough in practice.
There should be a buddy who takes care of potential new programmers and paves 
the way for them, both in technical and organisational questions.

Why?
For example, it is an illusion to believe that a newcomer who knows C++ and has 
understood the content of an issue can start programming immediately. No, he 
must first get an overview of the entire code in order to find the right place 
and he must familiarise himself with the processes in the project.
How long does that take? And please keep in mind that we are talking about 
volunteers who are only here in their spare time. 2 weeks? 4 weeks? Who takes 
on this effort without being sure beforehand that they want to participate 
permanently?

If we want to attract people who are not yet sure if they want to work 
permanently, I'm afraid we have to find ways to make it even easier to get 
involved.


Jörg



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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-29 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 9:11 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> fixed position

> Thanks, this is awesome.
> 
> What error handling is needed? 

I'll have to think hard about this to give a complete answer, but for example, 
it is necessary to have an error routine for when the user enters text in 
error. On the other hand, text input can also be a desired feature, in which 
case one must ensure that if text is entered, it is automatically treated 
differently from a numeric value.

> What 
> license do you prefer?

Personally, I usually prefer LGPL 2.1 (only 2.1!), MIT and ISCL, but for such a 
small tool I don't care, so we can use Apache License.

> I would prefer with an ASF Repo, but I feel that we had so far no 
> agreement to this. Is there any opposition if we create an 
> "OpenOffice 
> Extension" Organisation That then collects extension code?
> 
> This is just a wild Idea. 

This is an idea that Mechtilde and I had already discussed on 
dev...@openoffice.apache.org and I think it could be useful if done properly. 
Doing it spontaneously will not lead to success, as negative experiences from 
the OpenOffice.org project should have shown us.
I would therefore like to take up this idea in a new thread to discuss it 
systematically. Please be patient for a few days until I open this thread - I 
have to think about it first.

> Anyone on an Idea how to make an extension multilingual?

The 'extension mechanism' offers clear possibilities for this, but they are 
rarely used in practice because the technical effort for small extensions is 
relatively high. In practice, this is therefore often done manually directly in 
the macro.


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-28 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Pedro Lino [mailto:pedro.l...@mailbox.org.INVALID] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 5:39 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> fixed position
> 
> Hi all
> 
> > On 04/28/2021 4:16 PM Jörg Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> > Peter is looking for a function with which he can achieve 
> that when typing:
> > <1><2><3><4>
> > 
> > the cell contains the value 12.34. 
> 
> That is correct. I just learned that Excel has such an 
> Advanced feature which is disabled by default.
> 
> My answer to Peter was to the point that although this 
> feature seems useful for some users, I'm not sure we (as a 
> project) have the manpower to allocate to such a task and 
> therefore I suggested a solution (sometimes called a hack or 
> workaround) which involves simply having an extra formula in 
> a separate column.

mmh ... I had already created and linked a solution this morning. Currently in 
a file so that you can test it directly:
www.calc-info.de/files/SpecialInput.ods

(Please note the menu "Special Input" included in the file.)

I can also put it in an extension and we could then integrate it into the AOO 
installation package or upload it to the extension directory.


Somehow I don't understand the discussions at the moment, sometimes the talk is 
that the whole thing is unnecessary, sometimes I'm accused of talking about the 
wrong topic...


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-28 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: DaveB [mailto:b...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 1:25 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> fixed position
> 
> On 28/04/2021 11:55, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> >  
> > 
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Dave Barton [mailto:dbar...@posteo.net] 
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:30 PM
> >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> >> fixed position
> >>
> > 
> >>>> Or a more simple solution = Format Cells
> >>>
> >>> Really not, no formatting is able to change a value. Sure, 
> >> you can compensate for this during further calculation (for 
> >> example =SUM(D1:D10)/100 instead of =SUM(D1:D10)), but who 
> >> wants to work like that? 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> greetings,
> >>> Jörg
> >>
> >> You are creating an issue where a problem does not exist.
> > 
> > I don't think so.
> 
> I do, because you are not dealing with the original issue.

Peter wrote literally:

"I have been asked on Facebook, and I found a forum thread if there is a 
feature that interprets the entry of numbers the last 2 numbers as digits.

So if you enter 1234 calc will enter 12.34 in the cell."

in my words, it means:
Peter is looking for a function with which he can achieve that when typing:
<1><2><3><4>

the cell contains the value 12.34. 

> Please do not lecture me on such things, I have been involved 
> with this
> software since 2001 and a long term user of Star Office before that.

and I've been around since 2004 and have written the best-selling 
German-language book on OpenOffice.org Calc: 
http://calc-info.de/informationen.htm

But are these the criteria that decide here, in this discussion? I think not.


Jörg



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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-28 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Barton [mailto:dbar...@posteo.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:30 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> fixed position
> 

> >> Or a more simple solution = Format Cells
> > 
> > Really not, no formatting is able to change a value. Sure, 
> you can compensate for this during further calculation (for 
> example =SUM(D1:D10)/100 instead of =SUM(D1:D10)), but who 
> wants to work like that? 
> > 
> > 
> > greetings,
> > Jörg
> 
> You are creating an issue where a problem does not exist.

I don't think so.

> Using your
> example Cells D1:D12 formatted as numbers with zero decimal 
> places means
> that only integer values are entered in those cells. Fill cells D1:D10
> with the integer value 1234 and in cell D12 enter =SUM(D1:D10) which
> returns the result 12,340

Right. And?

In this case 12,340 means the value 12340, the "," is NOT a decimal separator 
but the thousands separator (in an English localised OO).

But what was the question?
Peter wants a solution how to enter 1234, but the value 12.34 should be taken 
over.



Jörg


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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-28 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: DaveB [mailto:b...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 11:25 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> fixed position
> 
> On 28/04/2021 09:59, Pedro Lino wrote:
> > Hi Peter
> > 
> >> On 04/28/2021 3:27 AM Peter Kovacs  wrote:
> > 
> >> I have been asked on Facebook, and I found a forum thread 
> if there is a 
> >> feature that interprets the entry of numbers the last 2 
> numbers as digits.
> > 
> >> Any Ideas, or inputs? Does LO maybe have done this? (I 
> could not find 
> >> any hints.)
> > 
> > That is a simple calculation that can be done in two 
> columns. Just type the number in one column without the dot 
> (although I don't see that pressing an extra key would slow 
> down any typist) and then on the next column divide it by 100.
> > 
> > I think this is a simple user problem, not a dev issue...
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Pedro
> 
> Or a more simple solution = Format Cells

Really not, no formatting is able to change a value. Sure, you can compensate 
for this during further calculation (for example =SUM(D1:D10)/100 instead of 
=SUM(D1:D10)), but who wants to work like that? 


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a fixed position

2021-04-28 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 4:28 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Feature: automatic enter of a decimal point at a 
> fixed position
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> 
> I have been asked on Facebook, and I found a forum thread if 
> there is a 
> feature that interprets the entry of numbers the last 2 
> numbers as digits.
> 
> So if you enter 1234 calc will enter 12.34 in the cell. This 
> is good for 
> accountants to enter a lot of numbers. (Need to think less, which I 
> appreciate when I have to do a lot repeated tasks.)
> 
> Excel does this with some complicated menu.
> 
> I could not find any feature or extension. Adding this as a extension 
> sounds great to me and this sounds not to complicated.
> 
> 
> I would go for
> 
> # a extension config which sets up the digits to be moved.
> 
> # a button to toggle the feature
> 
> # a small macro that divides by the setup amounts if the cell is 
> overwritten. (don't know if this definition can be used)
> 
> 
> Any Ideas, or inputs? Does LO maybe have done this? (I could not find 
> any hints.)
> 
> How we could take care the extension gets translated? (we = 
> community, I 
> do not think this needs to be an ASF extension.)

This is simple. You need the following working macro (the macro still needs 
some error routines):

Sub Main
addr = Thiscomponent.getCurrentSelection
If addr.supportsService("com.sun.star.sheet.SheetCell") Then
Thiscomponent.getCurrentSelection.Value = 
Thiscomponent.getCurrentSelection.Value/100
End If
End Sub

and these two macros to activate and deactivate the function:

Sub activate_special_input()
Dim mEventProps(1) as new com.sun.star.beans.PropertyValue
mEventProps(0).Name = "EventType"
mEventProps(0).Value = "Script"
mEventProps(1).Name = "Script"
mEventProps(1).Value = 
"vnd.sun.star.script:Standard.Module1.Main?language=Basic=document"

ThisComponent.CurrentController.ActiveSheet.Events.ReplaceByName("OnChange", 
mEventProps())
End Sub

Sub deactivate_special_input()

ThisComponent.CurrentController.ActiveSheet.Events.ReplaceByName("OnChange", 
Array())
End Sub

I have uploaded a draft here:
www.calc-info.de/files/SpecialInput.ods

Please note the menu "Special Input" included in the file.



greetings,
Jörg



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RE: Sorgen um LO

2021-04-22 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo Peter, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 7:17 PM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Sorgen um LO

> Oder wo was sich aus den Punkten für uns ableiten müsste, 
> diskutiere ich 
> gerne.

gut.

> > Wenn Dir wirklich nicht klar war, warum es besser ist vom 
> 'BigSur-Problem' betroffene Anwender so schnell als möglich 
> zu informieren, anstatt zu schweigen, kann ich Dir auch nicht helfen.
> 
> Hierbei ging es darum, dass "du" "mir" ein Ultimatum gestellt hast. 

Ja, habe ich. (bzw. ich glaubte eigentlich das Ultimatum allen gestellt zu 
haben, aber ich bin zu faul das zu prüfen)

Dazu stehe ich auch, denn ich schrieb ja selbst über mein Tun, das es meine 
Absicht war die Liste "unter Druck zu setzen".

> Wenn es dir um Geschwindigkeit ginge, hättest du 
> jederzeit den Satz hinzufügen können.

Und das ist leider unsachlich, denn mir wurde ja sinngemäß entgegengehalten das 
das nicht zulässig  wäre, weil mit dem Argumentationstrick gearbeitet wurde das 
zwar jeder die Release-Notes VOR dem Release editieren darf aber nicht einfach 
so nach den Release.

> Ich werde auch zukünftig womöglich 
> schlecht darauf 
> reagieren.

Warum auch nicht. Ich halte das für Dein gutes Recht. 

Und das meine ich wie ich es sage, denn das ich mich jetzt hier über Deine 
Formulierung der vergifteten Email aufgeregt habe ist natürlich nur ein 
Diskussionstrick meinerseits und nicht Ausdruck dessen das ich meinte es stünde 
Dir nicht zu mich auch verbal hart anzugehen.


 
Gruß
Jörg


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RE: Sorgen um LO

2021-04-22 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo Michael, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 1:57 PM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Sorgen um LO
> 
> Hallo Jörg,
> 
> Am 22.04.21 um 13:05 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
> d.
> > 
> > Manche Argumente sind Blödsinn, über Manche würde ich aber 
> auch gerne diskutieren.
> 
> Ich habe im Beitrag von Andreas nichts wirklich Neues gefunden.
> 
> War die Argumentation 2010 noch, Chance für eine junges, 
> neues Projekt, 
> später dann,LO sei "agiler" und mehr "communitygetrieben", so 
> heißt es 
> sei geraumer Zeit nur noch, wir würden unverantwortlich handeln.
> 
> Die Forderung ist aber immer die Gleiche: Packt ein und schickt die 
> Anwender zu uns!
> 
> Was soll es da noch zu diskutieren geben?

Zum Einen ganz allgemein die Aussagen die LO ganz ohne Beleg in die 
Öffentlichkeit posaunt, zum Zweiten einige Fragen die ich tatsächlich fachlich 
interessant finde, z.B. die Frage des optimalen Release-Zyklus.

Ich sehe das auch weniger als Diskussion zwischen LO und AOO, sondern von AOO 
mit der Öffentlichkeit. 

> Wir haben es nicht nötig, uns für unser Tun zu rechtfertigen.

So ist es.

Gleichzeitig dürfen wir aber auch nicht so überheblich (was wäre ein besseres 
Wort?) sein, zu meinen wir hätten es nicht nötig bestimmten Aussagen von LO 
öffentlich entgegenzutreten.

Auch dabei sehe ich eigentlich keinen Dissenz zwischen Dir und mir, denn ich 
schlage hier keineswegs vor regelmäßige wortreiche Statements zu 
veröffentlichen, sondern bestimmte Punkte, wo wir die Wahl haben, aufzugreifen 
und mit ruhiger Hand unsere Meinung dazu zu vertreten.



Michael, einmal sehr offen:
ich finde es gut das Du seit Oktober letzten Jahres Deine Meinung zur Frage LO 
merklich geändert hast, aber bitte übersieh nicht das Du hier jetzt in der 
quasi Fundamentalität argumentierst, die Du mir früher immer vorgeworfen hast, 
denn das gefügelte Wort "unsere Freunde bei LO" war Deines und auch die 
Toleranz immer wieder mit LO reden zu wollen war früher Dein Tun.
Das ist KEIN Vorwurf, sondern nur der Hinweis darauf das der quasi Durchschnitt 
Deiner Meinung, früher und heute, und meiner Meinung früher und heute, so 
ziemlich gleich sind.


> Klar sollte man auch jedem Fehler nachgehen und seine 
> Ursachen möglichst 
> tiefgründig abstellen. Und natürlich kann man auch über die 
> Auswirkungen 
> und die Relevanz von Fehlern diskutieren.
> 
> Unser Problem ist allein, dass die Menschen, die Fehler machen, meist 
> auch die sind, die sie abstellen können (und müssen), was eine 
> respektvolle Diskussion wünschenswert und zielführend 
> erscheinen lässt.

Ja sicher. Nur "respektvoll" heisst ja nicht kritiklos. Und wer gegenüber dem 
Projekt Verantwortung übernimmt, der hat auch zu dieser Verantwortung zu 
stehen, wenn er Fehler macht.

-> Oder anders ausgedrückt: Wir können es uns einfach nicht leisten, 
> jemanden, der etwas tut und dabei Fehler macht, vor den Kopf 
> zu stoßen,

Das muss dann aber für alle gelten. Peter schrieb beispielsweise heute wörtlich:

"Aber niemand unterdrückt jemanden aktiv, es sei denn 
der Jenige wird immer massiv emotional."

Hältst Du mich für zu blöd das zu verstehen?



Gruß
Jörg


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RE: Sorgen um LO

2021-04-22 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo Peter, *,

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 8:28 AM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Sorgen um LO
> 

> Ich glaube, das Ziel sind nicht wir. Sondern es wird versucht eine 
> Rechtfertigung der eigenen Existenz zu finden 

ja, da ist was dran

> Die 
> Argumente machen ja auch nur oberflächlich Sinn, oder ich 
> verstehe sie 
> nicht wie sie gemeint sind.

Manche Argumente sind Blödsinn, über Manche würde ich aber auch gerne 
diskutieren.

> 
> Auf jedenfall Grund genug sich sorgen zu machen gibt es.
> 
> >
> >> Was wir tun müssen ist über das Projekt berichten. Also Fragen
> >> bearbeiten wie:
> >>
> >> # Wo stehen wir?
> >>
> >> #Wo wollen wir hin?
> >>
> >> # Was ist gerade wichtig? (Prioritäten)
> >>
> >> # Welche Projekte machen Fortschritte und was steht?
> >>
> >> # Vielleicht auch, warum machen wir was?
> >>
> >> Das hat für mich mit Werbung nichts zu tun.
> > Solche Fragen beantwortet das PMC seit Jahre über die Köpfe 
> der Community hinweg. Motto: wir brauchen keine gemeinsamen 
> Entscheidungen, da wir Meritokratie als Gott anbeten (und 
> eben nicht als unser Werkzeug nutzen) - wobei ... manchmal 
> gilt dann dieses 'Beten' plötzlich als Ketzerei, wenn es 
> zufällig die weihnachtliche Bequemlichkeit Einiger stört.

> Ach nee. Wenn das passiert dann ist einfach nur nicht klar was die 
> PErson will und warum das besser ist. 

Wenn Dir wirklich nicht klar war, warum es besser ist vom 'BigSur-Problem' 
betroffene Anwender so schnell als möglich zu informieren, anstatt zu 
schweigen, kann ich Dir auch nicht helfen.


Und damit ich nicht nochmal antworten muss füge ich zu der 'BigSur-Thematik' 
gleich hinzu:

Hätte ich in meiner damaligen allerersten Mail geschrieben:
'Hallo, das ist ja wirklich ein tolles Release, besonders hat mir gefallen  
und auch vielen Dank an ... für ..., Bla Bla ..., und noch mehr Bla Bla ...,
... Leider gibt es ein kleines Problem mit BigSur, aber ich habe gleichmal mal 
eine Notiz in die Release-Notes geschrieben ...'

dann hätte ich von der dev-Liste ein Dankeschön geerntet. 

Stattdessen wurde es Dein Spruch von der 'vergifteten Mail', nur weil ich, nach 
tagelanger Warterei, mir erlaubt habe die Liste verbal damit unter Druck zu 
setzen, indem ich angekündigt habe selbst etwas in die Release-Notes zu 
schreiben, wenn nicht endlich der schon tagelang fertige Text veröffentlicht 
wird.

(Und nein, ich übersehe nicht das die ganze Zeit am Patch gearbeitet wurde, nur 
die schnellstmögliche verbale Informstion der Öffentlichkeit war genauso 
wichtig, aber wurde permanent verschoben.)



Gruß
Jörg


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RE: Sorgen um LO

2021-04-21 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo Peter, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 9:25 PM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Sorgen um LO
> 
> 
> On 21.04.21 18:36, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> > hallo Peter,
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 6:22 PM
> >> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Sorgen um LO
> >>
> >> Das meine ich:
> >> "Ein Open Source Projekt, das dies nicht (mehr) bieten kann,
> >> sollte seine Software nicht mehr bewerben und ihren Vertrieb
> >> solange einstellen,..."
> > ach so.
> >
> > Nur dann ist doch die Antwort klar, z.B. das hier ist ja 
> bereits "bewerben":
> > https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/announcing-apache-openoffice-4-15
> 
> Danke Jörg. Die Aussage halte ich für gewagt. 

Warum hältst Du das für gewagt ... wir sind hier nicht vor Gericht um Dinge 
beweisen zu müssen,  sondern reden normal miteinander, Andreas genauso wie Du 
oder ich.

Es geht hier nicht um Lehrbuchdefinitionen, sondern darum das genauso gilt das 
man nicht über etwas reden kann ohne das das auch als Werbung wirkt, weil man 
dieses "etwas" im Gespräch hält. Insofern kann man selbst noch den Blogpost der 
TDF als Werbung für AOO sehen (was im Konkreten auch nicht einmal weit 
hergeholt ist, denn wer von uns hat beim Lesen der Kritik der TDF nicht das 
Gefühl gehabt: 'wow, AOO scheint es erheblich besser zu gehen, als ich bisher 
leider befürchtete')

Aber es ist unwichtig ob Werbung oder nicht, denn was die Gegenseite stört ist 
unsere Aktivität ansich.


Gruß
Jörg


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RE: Sorgen um LO

2021-04-21 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo Peter, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 12:23 AM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Sorgen um LO

> Also Wikipedia schreibt:
> 
> [...]

> Meiner Meinung nach sind nur unsere Flyer so zu sehen.
> 
> Alles andere hat Meiner Meinung nach nichts mit Werbung zu tun. Ich 
> finde bewerben und Vertrieb auch eine befremdliche Wortwahl, 
> mit der ich 
> im Bezug auf Apache OpenOffice aktuell nichts anfangen kann, und 
> deswegen distanziere ich mich davon.
> 
> Wir sind kein gewinnorientiertes Unternehmen. Die Software 
> wird für die 
> Gemeinschaft entwicklet.
> 

Und wenn es so wäre? Was willst Du damit beweisen und warum?

Klar redest Andreas über "Werbung", aber wir sehen doch wohl alle das es ihm um 
etwas ganz Anderes geht. 
Oder glaubt hier jemand die Kritik von Andreas würde aufhören zu bestehen wenn 
wir uns aller der Veröffentlichungen enthielten die auf AOO aufmerksam machen, 
egal ob diese Werbung sind oder nicht?

> Was wir tun müssen ist über das Projekt berichten. Also Fragen 
> bearbeiten wie:
> 
> # Wo stehen wir?
> 
> #Wo wollen wir hin?
> 
> # Was ist gerade wichtig? (Prioritäten)
> 
> # Welche Projekte machen Fortschritte und was steht?
> 
> # Vielleicht auch, warum machen wir was?
> 
> Das hat für mich mit Werbung nichts zu tun.

Solche Fragen beantwortet das PMC seit Jahre über die Köpfe der Community 
hinweg. Motto: wir brauchen keine gemeinsamen Entscheidungen, da wir 
Meritokratie als Gott anbeten (und eben nicht als unser Werkzeug nutzen) - 
wobei ... manchmal gilt dann dieses 'Beten' plötzlich als Ketzerei, wenn es 
zufällig die weihnachtliche Bequemlichkeit Einiger stört.



Aber zurück zum Thema:
Jetzt will auch ich etwas Inhaltliches sagen, was ich mir die ganze Zeit 
verkneife, weil ich uns bei dem ganzen Thema eigerntlich zu 99% einig sehe und 
diese Einigkeit nicht zerreden möchte, aber:

Ich halte es für falsch uns zu den Angriffen von TDF/LO nicht öffentlich zu 
äußern, sondern wir sollten das tun, ruhig und sachlich, beispielsweise zum 
Vorwurf der angeblichen Sicherheitslücken in AOO.
Natürlich ist so etwas mühevoll, aber völlig darauf zu verzichten schwächt 
unsere Position auf Dauer.



Gruß
Jörg






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RE: Sorgen um LO

2021-04-21 Thread Jörg Schmidt
hallo Peter, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 6:22 PM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Sorgen um LO
> 
> Das meine ich:
> "Ein Open Source Projekt, das dies nicht (mehr) bieten kann, 
> sollte seine Software nicht mehr bewerben und ihren Vertrieb 
> solange einstellen,..."

ach so. 

Nur dann ist doch die Antwort klar, z.B. das hier ist ja bereits "bewerben":
https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/announcing-apache-openoffice-4-15



Gruß
Jörg


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RE: Sorgen um LO

2021-04-21 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo Peter, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 12:19 PM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Sorgen um LO
> 
> Hallo Jörg,
> Hallo Michael, 
> 
> Vielen Dank für den Artikel und das PDF. 
> Auf welche Marketing Aktion bezieht Andreas sich da? 

Wo taucht der Begriff "Marketing Aktion" auf bzw. worauf bezieht sich Deine 
Frage falls der Begriff wörtlich so nicht vorkommt?



Gruß
Jörg


P.S.
ich habe die ganze Zeit schon ein komisches Baugefühl, deswegen schreibe ich 
mal Folgendes hin: Es ist jedem hier hoffentlich klar das mein ursprünglicher 
Link sich auf eine Aussage von Andreas bezieht die lange vor der Aussage der 
TDF erfolgte? Es geht hier also nicht um aktuelles Geschehen.


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RE: Sorgen um LO

2021-04-21 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo Michael, *, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 10:37 AM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Sorgen um LO
> 
> Hallo,
> 
> Am 21.04.21 um 08:12 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
> 
> > informierte, weshalb ich erstmals Kenntnis von dessen 
> Existenz, sowie von einem weiteren Projekt von Andreas 
> ("LibreOffice Extension Creator") erfuhr.
> > 
> > 
> > beides sind Dinge die ich für nützlich (für letztlich beide 
> Projekte) halte.
> > 
> 
> Ein interessantes Tool, welches sicher ein intensiveres Studium lohnt.

Es geht mir vor allem um die 'Betrachtungsperspektive' aus Sicht von 
BasicAddonbuilder, dazu hatte ich auch einige Sätze auf der LO-Liste 
geschrieben:
https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/de/discuss/2021/msg00128.html




Gruß
Jörg


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RE: Sorgen um LO

2021-04-21 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo Michael, *,

> -Original Message-
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2021 11:11 AM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Sorgen um LO
> 
> Hallo,
> 
> [...]

ich hatte aktuell wirklich nur die Absicht über den Link zu informieren, auf 
den ich zufällig gestossen war, weil Andreas auf einer LO-Liste über die 
Aktualisierung seines Extension HowTos:
https://amantke.de/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/extensionsbook20210417.pdf

informierte, weshalb ich erstmals Kenntnis von dessen Existenz, sowie von einem 
weiteren Projekt von Andreas ("LibreOffice Extension Creator") erfuhr.


beides sind Dinge die ich für nützlich (für letztlich beide Projekte) halte.

Nebenher fiel mir dann auch dieser Link auf...



Gruß
Jörg




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RE: Sorgen um LO

2021-04-20 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo *,

ich hole den alten Thread hier nach oben, weil ich keinen Neuen erstellen will, 
aber einen Link einstellen auf den ich gerade zufällig stosse:

https://amantke.de/2020/04/02/open-source-software-lebt-nicht-von-historie-sondern-von-dynamik/

Dieser Blogbeitrag enthält nichts nennenswert Anderes als das worauf Michael 
schon verwies, aber er setzt doch den Fokus in manchen Details etwas anders, 
als die Veröffentlichung der TDF die Michaels Aussagen, indirekt(*), zugrunde 
lag. 


(*)
"indirekt" weil Michael 'nur' auf einen Link zu einer sekkundären Quelle 
verwies. 




Gruß
Jörg


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RE: Integrate download wizard into website?

2021-04-18 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:wave4d...@comcast.net] 
> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 8:21 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Apr 18, 2021, at 10:12 AM, Jörg Schmidt 
>  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:w...@apache.org]
> >> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 6:43 PM
> >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?

> >> I opened a discussion with INFRA. These things take time. 
> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-21497
> > 
> > Thank you, this is great.
> > 
> > (Sorry, I have read the discussion there, at the moment, 
> only briefly. If we have to decide mandatory whether to use 
> SF or Mirror, this will of course have to be considered carefully.)
> > 
> >>> I don't want to go into both things (JavaScript, Mirror) 
> >> here, but I would like to ask you to keep them in mind.
> >> 
> >> A download site that works without JavaScript is not a wizard 
> > 
> > JavaScript may be the best technical option, but Flash, 
> *for example*, would be another alternative (regardless of 
> whether you like it), so you can't say it would only work 
> using JavaScript.
> 
> Flash is dead. 

That's right, but you misunderstand me if you assume I wanted to use Flash.

I mentioned Flash as an example because I had mentioned PHP before and didn't 
want to repeat that.




greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Integrate download wizard into website?

2021-04-18 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 7:05 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> 
> Am 18.04.21 um 18:54 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> >> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 6:12 PM
> >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> >>
> >> Am 18.04.21 um 09:24 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
> > 
> >>> Yes, it makes sense to leave out technical details for now,
> >> but I recently came across (through an info on users-de@...)
> >> the following issue where I think improvement is needed (in
> >> the medium term):
> >>> our download site works almost not at all without JavaScript.
> >>
> >> for me it's working. When clicking the green text you will be
> >> redirected
> >> to SF.net and you can download from there.
> > 
> > JavaScript is disabled an i use:
> > http://www.openoffice.org/de/download/index.html
> > 
> > (note the .../de/)
> > 
> > and if I click on the green text block there I get to:
> > https://www.apache.org/dyn/aoo-closer.cgi/openoffice/
> 
> thanks for the hint. Will be fixed with the next update on 
> the website.

fine, thank you.


Jörg


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RE: Integrate download wizard into website?

2021-04-18 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:w...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 6:43 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Apr 18, 2021, at 12:24 AM, Jörg Schmidt 
>  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> >> Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 7:25 PM
> >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> >> 
> >> Am 16.04.21 um 10:29 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
> >>>> -Original Message-
> >>>> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 9:20 AM
> >>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >>>> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Indeed, the way can be different how to show these hints. But
> >>>> I think we
> >>>> agree already that the hint presentation could be more 
> >> automatic and
> >>>> context-sensitive.
> >>> 
> >>> Exactly, I agree with you on that.
> >> 
> >> OK, then we have our basis.
> >> 
> >> Next step would be to clearify the requirements. Here I would 
> >> like to be 
> >> generic as best as possible; which means to keep out 
> >> technical details 
> >> for the moment.
> >> 
> >> When this is done we can try to find a technical solution 
> to get the 
> >> requirement implemented.
> >> 
> >> What do you think?
> > 
> > The essential requirements for Windows are clear and 
> concern the 32-bit Java 'problem'.
> > For Linux, at least the issues of system integration and 
> uninstalling LO are also involved.
> > About MacOS I personally know nothing.
> > 
> > Maybe it would be best if I say here that I will think 
> about detailed requirements together with the update (*) of 
> the German installation manual?
> > 
> > (*):
> > I have to explain this briefly: as part of the ProOO-Box's 
> work on the German AOO documentaion (see comments on 
> http://www.openoffice.org/de/doc/index.html), I am currently 
> working specifically on the installation manual. Problem is 
> that I, due to lack of time, unfortunately only very slow 
> progress, advantage is that I really binding work on it.
> > As sorry as I am, I can't say until when this work will be 
> done, but it will take _at least_ a few more months.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yes, it makes sense to leave out technical details for now, 
> but I recently came across (through an info on users-de@...) 
> the following issue where I think improvement is needed (in 
> the medium term):
> > our download site works almost not at all without 
> JavaScript. Namely the linking to 
> https://www.apache.org/dyn/aoo-closer.cgi/openoffice/ does 
> not help the user at all because there are no relevant 
> mirrors for AOO. 
> 
> aoo-closer.cgi was an idea before SourceForge. It doesn’t 
> work for the reason you mention. 
> > I had already addressed the 'problem' with mirrors myself 
> (here on this list), but got little response.
> 
> I opened a discussion with INFRA. These things take time. 
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-21497

Thank you, this is great.

(Sorry, I have read the discussion there, at the moment, only briefly. If we 
have to decide mandatory whether to use SF or Mirror, this will of course have 
to be considered carefully.)

> > I don't want to go into both things (JavaScript, Mirror) 
> here, but I would like to ask you to keep them in mind.
> 
> A download site that works without JavaScript is not a wizard 

JavaScript may be the best technical option, but Flash, *for example*, would be 
another alternative (regardless of whether you like it), so you can't say it 
would only work using JavaScript.

But please: I don't want to argue about JavaScript, I just wanted to draw 
attention to the problem I had named. 



Jörg


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RE: Integrate download wizard into website?

2021-04-18 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 6:12 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> 
> Am 18.04.21 um 09:24 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:

> > Yes, it makes sense to leave out technical details for now, 
> but I recently came across (through an info on users-de@...) 
> the following issue where I think improvement is needed (in 
> the medium term):
> > our download site works almost not at all without JavaScript.
> 
> for me it's working. When clicking the green text you will be 
> redirected 
> to SF.net and you can download from there.

JavaScript is disabled an i use:
http://www.openoffice.org/de/download/index.html

(note the .../de/)

and if I click on the green text block there I get to:
https://www.apache.org/dyn/aoo-closer.cgi/openoffice/



Jörg


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RE: Integrate download wizard into website?

2021-04-18 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 7:25 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> 
> Am 16.04.21 um 10:29 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> >> Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 9:20 AM
> >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> >>
> >> Indeed, the way can be different how to show these hints. But
> >> I think we
> >> agree already that the hint presentation could be more 
> automatic and
> >> context-sensitive.
> > 
> > Exactly, I agree with you on that.
> 
> OK, then we have our basis.
> 
> Next step would be to clearify the requirements. Here I would 
> like to be 
> generic as best as possible; which means to keep out 
> technical details 
> for the moment.
> 
> When this is done we can try to find a technical solution to get the 
> requirement implemented.
> 
> What do you think?

The essential requirements for Windows are clear and concern the 32-bit Java 
'problem'.
For Linux, at least the issues of system integration and uninstalling LO are 
also involved.
About MacOS I personally know nothing.

Maybe it would be best if I say here that I will think about detailed 
requirements together with the update (*) of the German installation manual?

(*):
I have to explain this briefly: as part of the ProOO-Box's work on the German 
AOO documentaion (see comments on http://www.openoffice.org/de/doc/index.html), 
I am currently working specifically on the installation manual. Problem is that 
I, due to lack of time, unfortunately only very slow progress, advantage is 
that I really binding work on it.
As sorry as I am, I can't say until when this work will be done, but it will 
take _at least_ a few more months.



Yes, it makes sense to leave out technical details for now, but I recently came 
across (through an info on users-de@...) the following issue where I think 
improvement is needed (in the medium term):
our download site works almost not at all without JavaScript. Namely the 
linking to https://www.apache.org/dyn/aoo-closer.cgi/openoffice/ does not help 
the user at all because there are no relevant mirrors for AOO. 
I had already addressed the 'problem' with mirrors myself (here on this list), 
but got little response.

I don't want to go into both things (JavaScript, Mirror) here, but I would like 
to ask you to keep them in mind.




Jörg



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RE: Integrate download wizard into website?

2021-04-16 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 9:20 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> 

> 
> Indeed, the way can be different how to show these hints. But 
> I think we 
> agree already that the hint presentation could be more automatic and 
> context-sensitive.

Exactly, I agree with you on that.


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Integrate download wizard into website?

2021-04-15 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 7:00 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> 
> Am 15.04.21 um 08:49 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:

> > That's exactly what I wrote myself on the de-users list and 
> expressed my lack of understanding that users don't seem to 
> be able to use a website that is as easy to use as a vending machine.
> > Nevertheless, I have to take note that there are such users.
> 
> The the question is if can satisfy all users that have 
> problems to find 
> the right install set.

Let's not argue about that. 
At the same time, I want to say one word:

kaizen

(I do not put a link to Wikipedia, because in the English Wikipedia "Kaizen" is 
explained only one-sided, related to the economy. In the German Wikipedia it is 
explained more thoroughly.)

> > And my suggestion comes from the observation that the 
> improvements of the last months didn't seem optimal(*), 
> because they required the user to actively do something to 
> get an additional info (either place the mouse over a button 
> to get a tooltip/teaser or actually click on a button to get 
> an info page in a separate window).
> 
> This is a complete different topic (at least in my eyes) 

Then _I_ must have explained it badly, because actually that is the core of my 
proposal. 

mmh ... but I understand, there are two different possibilities, namely once 
the user makes his selection in one step (so it is currently on the download 
page) and then automatically gets all the appropriate hints in one step, or you 
ask the settings step by step and also give the hints step by step.



greetings,
Jörg





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RE: Integrate download wizard into website?

2021-04-15 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 11:07 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> 
> 
> On 14.04.21 22:42, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> >   
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Dean.Webber [mailto:2018001...@student.sit.ac.nz]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 10:07 PM
> >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> >>
> >> Do you mean like the sourceforge page, that detects the
> >> system and offers the download
> >> https://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/la
> >> test/download
> > No. At least _I_ mean an assistant that asks the user what he wants.
> >
> > And I opened the thread here because on the de-users list 
> once again someone asked because he did not understand how to 
> use the download page.
> > So the person is not able to understand that if he wants an 
> installation package for "Windows, german, version 4.1", he 
> has to set it in the listboxes of the download page first and 
> then click on the appropriate button.
> 
> IMHO All you need to know is HTML. The Code is really only 
> good to make 
> a preselection guess, and can be skipped.
> 
> But if I get your intend right it is a different Layout. 

My intention is rather to give the user additional information without him 
having to actively do anything for it.


> [...]
> 
> 
> Something like that?

Yes and no. Your design is too static, I think more about dynamically adding 
information and I think more long term.

for example: There were the problems about BigSur some time ago. If we had a 
download wizard on the website we could have specifically put an info for MacOS 
users there. 


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Integrate download wizard into website?

2021-04-15 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 11:14 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> 
> Am 14.04.21 um 22:42 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
> > 
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Dean.Webber [mailto:2018001...@student.sit.ac.nz]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 10:07 PM
> >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> >>
> >> Do you mean like the sourceforge page, that detects the
> >> system and offers the download
> >> https://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/la
> >> test/download
> > 
> > No. At least _I_ mean an assistant that asks the user what he wants.
> > 
> > And I opened the thread here because on the de-users list 
> once again someone asked because he did not understand how to 
> use the download page.
> > So the person is not able to understand that if he wants an 
> installation package for "Windows, german, version 4.1", he 
> has to set it in the listboxes of the download page first and 
> then click on the appropriate button.
> 
> with a quick search I can only find 1 request from April, 
> 13th 2021 and 
> nothing from 2020. Right? Where can I find the others?

I can't tell you specific things specifically, because I don't save links to 
corresponding statements from users.

My assessment of the topic comes from the situation that I do 15-20 hours of 
voluntary support for AOO week after week, primarily in the forum 
http://de.openoffice.info and on users...@openoffice.apache.org.


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Integrate download wizard into website?

2021-04-15 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 11:18 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> 
> Am 14.04.21 um 22:34 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 9:44 PM
> >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> >>
> >> Am 14.04.21 um 21:27 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
> >>> I've been experiencing steady small improvements to the
> >> download explanations (on the Download-Site) for the last 
> few months.
> >>>
> >>> Does anyone see the possibility to offer a parallel wizard
> >> on the website in the future, which guides step by step
> >> through the selection of the correct download?
> >>
> >> I've no idea what you mean, so I'm just asking:
> >>
> >> What do you mean with website? What do you mean with wizard?
> > 
> > I mean step by step questions, explanations and choices, 
> e.g. you could start by asking the operating system
> 
> hm, why is it needed to ask questions to present the user a download 
> choice? 

Please let me answer like this:

I don't know if this is really mandatory, I'm just making a suggestion for 
improvements, in the sense of the improvements that have been made to the 
download website in the last few months.
All these improvements were basically aimed at one thing: to improve the 
understanding of technical issues, although it is actually about banal things 
that a normal user should know without additional help.

> Our download webpage today tries to guess the best 
> choice. When 
> the user wants something different, then it's very easy to select 
> something different.
> 
> The number of choices for the OSs are very clear. The 
> language items are 
> also really clear. 

That's exactly what I wrote myself on the de-users list and expressed my lack 
of understanding that users don't seem to be able to use a website that is as 
easy to use as a vending machine.
Nevertheless, I have to take note that there are such users.

> > and if the user chooses "Windows" you could show him 
> directly the additional info that he has to make sure to 
> install a 32 bit Java later ...
> 
> OK, right, this an be improved. But the work I'm doing these 
> days is not 
> finished yet. So, suggestions are welcome.

And my suggestion comes from the observation that the improvements of the last 
months didn't seem optimal(*), because they required the user to actively do 
something to get an additional info (either place the mouse over a button to 
get a tooltip/teaser or actually click on a button to get an info page in a 
separate window).

(*)
this is not a criticism, but the observation that here, on the list, it was 
talked about that the current improvements are only implemented the way they 
are, because there are technical limitations of the implementation



total:
my suggestion was only a suggestion. If the opinion of the list tends to be 
that my suggestion is unnecessary, I have no problem with that.


greetings,
Jörg




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RE: Integrate download wizard into website?

2021-04-14 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dean.Webber [mailto:2018001...@student.sit.ac.nz] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 10:07 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> 
> Do you mean like the sourceforge page, that detects the 
> system and offers the download
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/la
> test/download

No. At least _I_ mean an assistant that asks the user what he wants.

And I opened the thread here because on the de-users list once again someone 
asked because he did not understand how to use the download page.
So the person is not able to understand that if he wants an installation 
package for "Windows, german, version 4.1", he has to set it in the listboxes 
of the download page first and then click on the appropriate button. 



Jörg


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RE: Integrate download wizard into website?

2021-04-14 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 9:44 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> 
> Am 14.04.21 um 21:27 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
> > I've been experiencing steady small improvements to the 
> download explanations (on the Download-Site) for the last few months.
> > 
> > Does anyone see the possibility to offer a parallel wizard 
> on the website in the future, which guides step by step 
> through the selection of the correct download?
> 
> I've no idea what you mean, so I'm just asking:
> 
> What do you mean with website? What do you mean with wizard?

I mean step by step questions, explanations and choices, e.g. you could start 
by asking the operating system and if the user chooses "Windows" you could show 
him directly the additional info that he has to make sure to install a 32 bit 
Java later ... 

> > This question does not refer to today's but rather to the 
> possibilities that will be given by the future change of the CMS.
> 
> Just FYI. The CMS was already changed, so there won't be any further 
> changes or moves.

Sorry, then my knowledge is actually wrong, because I was always of the opinion 
that there were technical constraints that would force me to revise the content 
of the AOO website in parallel with the introduction of the new CMS.

I must then see that I familiarize myself with the new CMS. With the old CMS I 
got along reasonably well.



Jörg




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RE: Integrate download wizard into website?

2021-04-14 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:w...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 9:56 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Integrate download wizard into website?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Apr 14, 2021, at 12:44 PM, Marcus  wrote:
> > 
> > Am 14.04.21 um 21:27 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
> >> I've been experiencing steady small improvements to the 
> download explanations (on the Download-Site) for the last few months.
> >> Does anyone see the possibility to offer a parallel wizard 
> on the website in the future, which guides step by step 
> through the selection of the correct download?
> > 
> > I've no idea what you mean, so I'm just asking:
> > 
> > What do you mean with website? What do you mean with wizard?
> 
> It seems like an alternative download page.
> 
> Jorg could create a test page like download-wizard

mmh ... only with which technical means? PHP? That would be difficult for me. 
JavaScript? Maybe, but it's not really easy for me either.

I'm not very familiar with web programming, unfortunately. In Basic (StarBasic, 
VBA, VB ...) a wizard would be no problem for me, only that uses us nothing for 
the website.


Jörg


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Integrate download wizard into website?

2021-04-14 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

I've been experiencing steady small improvements to the download explanations 
(on the Download-Site) for the last few months.

Does anyone see the possibility to offer a parallel wizard on the website in 
the future, which guides step by step through the selection of the correct 
download?

This question does not refer to today's but rather to the possibilities that 
will be given by the future change of the CMS.


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: If the variable $(username) exists in OpenOffice?

2021-03-25 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello Czesław, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Czesław Wolański [mailto:czeslaw.wolan...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 6:57 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: If the variable $(username) exists in OpenOffice?

> Regarding "$(username)" - the source file "substitutepathvars.cxx"
> 
> AOO, Lines 107 - 128
> http://openoffice-vm1-he-de.apache.org/xref/aoo419/main/framew
> ork/source/services/substitutepathvars.cxx?r=910823ae
> 
> LO, Lines 87 - 109
> https://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/framework/source/se
> rvices/substitutepathvars.cxx?r=b4ec5a94
> 
> AOO does not define "$(username)" - but that might prove nothing.

Thank you. I will post this information in the forum thread.


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: If the variable $(username) exists in OpenOffice?

2021-03-25 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis Roczek [mailto:dennisroc...@libreoffice.org] 
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 11:24 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: If the variable $(username) exists in OpenOffice?
> 
> Hey,
> 
> file:///%APPDATA%/../../
> 
> should also work. J 

How is that supposed to work?

The desired path is D:\Documents\$(username) and here D:\Documents (not C:\ ... 
) is not a system path but a fixed path which of course cannot be set with a 
system variable like %Appdata%.


Jörg


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If the variable $(username) exists in OpenOffice?

2021-03-25 Thread Jörg Schmidt
hello,

in the german forum 
(https://de.openoffice.info/viewtopic.php?f=3=294248#p294248) is asked if the 
following entry in the file registrymodifications.xcu works also for OpenOffice 
(for LibreOffice this entry works):

file:///D:/Documents/$(username)


Neither in 
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/DevGuide/OfficeDev/Predefined_Variables
 nor in 
https://www.openoffice.org/api/docs/common/ref/com/sun/star/util/PathSubstitution.html
 I find a reference to "$(username)", so it looks like this variable does not 
exist in OPenOffice.



Can someone please confirm or contradict my assumption?



greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Introduction of myself

2021-03-24 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: fa...@holdoffice.com [mailto:fa...@holdoffice.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 7:27 PM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: AW: Introduction of myself
> 
> Hallo Jörg,
> 
> danke für deine Nachricht. Gut zu wissen mit der ProOO-Box 
> Seite. Mich würde mal interessieren, wie viel Seitenaufrufe 
> ihr im Monat habt aus D/A/CH? 

letzte 6 Monate:

Oktober 2020 = 7035
November 2020 = 13814
Dezember 2020 = 7844

Januar 2021 = 14652
Februar 2021 = 5114
März 2021 = 12292


Gruß
Jörg


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RE: Introduction of myself

2021-03-23 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo Fabio, 

> -Original Message-
> From: fa...@holdoffice.com [mailto:fa...@holdoffice.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 7:27 PM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: AW: Introduction of myself
> 
> Hallo Jörg,
> 
> danke für deine Nachricht. Gut zu wissen mit der ProOO-Box 
> Seite. Mich würde mal interessieren, wie viel Seitenaufrufe 
> ihr im Monat habt aus D/A/CH? Also wird die Seite  rege genutzt?

Die Seite wird rege genutzt, namentlich die Dokumentation, weshalb wir uns ja 
auch vor Längerem entschlossen haben uns um deren Aktualisierung zu kümmern, 
denn 'klassisch' (die ProOO-Box besteht seit ca. 17 Jahren) haben wir uns ja 
nur um die Verbreitung von OO und zugehörigen Materialien (auch der Doku) 
gekümmert.

Nach Zugriffszahlen muss ich Jan fragen, ich melde mich wenn ich Zahlen habe. 
(kann einige Tage dauern)

> Also ich habe definitiv Lust, die Dokumente zu pflegen. Ich 
> sehe, dass Writer, Calc und Math ziemlich aktuell sind. 

Math IST aktuell, die anderen Genannten nicht. Konkreter gesagt ist die Calc- 
und Writer-Doku zwar zweifelsohne brauchbar um sie zu benutzen, nur formal ist 
sie überwiegend ungefähr auf dem Stand von OOo 3.3..

> und Base ist 
> recht verkümmert. 

Bei Base ist wohl nur der Veröffentlichungsstand schlecht, aber an der 
Base-Doku arbeitet Jan kontinuierlich. Das ist in sofern eine bessere Situation 
als bei Calc, weil an der Calc-Doku seit Langem keiner konkret arbeitet.

> ist 
> Aber Calc und Base wären auch genau die 
> Programme, die mir am Herzen liegen und wo ich gern 
> unterstützen wollen würde. 

Danke für Dein Interesse. Ich schreibe noch eine Mail ans ProOO-Box-Team und 
nehme Dich ins CC, dann können wir über alles Weitere reden. 

  
Gruß
Jörg


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RE: Introduction of myself

2021-03-21 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 11:45 AM
> To: fa...@holdoffice.com; dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Introduction of myself

> Es gibt auch das Projekt ProOO-Box die einiges an deutscher Doku 
> produzieren.

Danke für die Erwähnung, ich konkretisiere mal:


Hallo Fabio,

Die ProOO-Box (http://www.prooo-box.org/), die eigentlich AOO und Zusatzsoftware
(Makros, Extensions etc.) verbreitet, hat es sich sein einigen Jahren zur
zusätzlichen Aufgabe gemacht die _deutschsprachige_ Doku zu AOO zu pflegen, wie
hier vermerkt:
http://www.openoffice.org/de/doc/index.html

weil es im Projekt selbst dafür seit Langem keine Freiwilligen gibt.

Bei Interesse kannst Du gerne mich direkt anschreiben oder nimm die Adresse im
Impressum der ProOO-Box Webseite.

Wir sind ein kleines Team (2-3 Leute), und organisieren die Doku-Arbeit
pragmatisch und ohne große formale Regeln, es gibt eine Mailingliste und eine
Cloud als Arbeitsmittel.



Gruß
Jörg



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Wer moderiert de-users

2021-03-08 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo,

auf de-users findet sich aktuell der Thread: "Korrektur/Erweiterung einer 
CORONA-Abhilfe (war mal an Euch verirrt herausgegangen)."

Ich habe mir erlaubt dort einen (launigen) Kommentar abzugeben, weil eine mir 
völlig unbekannte Person meint dort bestimmen zu müssen was dort hingehört und 
was nicht UND weil ich den Kommentar dieser Person, solange ich nichts Genauers 
weiß, nur als 'Zuarbeit' zum Start-Post des Threads sehen kann.


Vielleicht könnten wir darüber übereinstimmen das einzig der Moderator der 
Liste das _relevante_ Sagen hat.

Ich unterstreiche "relevant", weil ich niemanden das Wort grundsätzlich 
verbieten will, gleichzeitig meine ich aber das der Gemeinschaft der Liste 
unvbekannte Personen, nicht das Recht haben den Eindruck zu erwecken sie 
moderierten die Liste, und auf einer users-Liste, mit ständig neuen wechselnden 
Personen, ist es für Außenstehende leicht diesen Eindruck hervorzurufen.



Gruß
Jörg

 

 



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RE: CHemnitzer Linux-Tage 2021 - URL unseres BBB-Raumes

2021-03-06 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo,

> Es ist erwünscht und erbeten, dass Ihr nicht nur auch 'mal in diesem
> Raum 'reinschaut und vielleicht auch was länger bleibt, 
> sondern dass Ihr
> auch die URL verbreitet.

done: 
https://de.openoffice.info/viewtopic.php?f=3=75347


Frage:
LibreOffice ist tatsächlich nicht anwesend? 
Unter https://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de/2021/de/programm/live konnte ich das 
LO-Projekt nicht finden.



Gruß
Jörg


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RE: Suchfunktion

2021-03-05 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Rotraud Runggaldier [mailto:gald...@t-online.de] 
> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2021 9:41 AM
> To: dev-de@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Suchfunktion
> 
> Im neuen 4.1.9 funktioniert die Wort-Suchfunktion in den 
> Files nicht mehr.
> Das ist meine dritte Anfrage. Was muss ich tun

Ich habe vorstehende Frage/Aussage zum Anlass genommen mir Version 4.1.9 unter 
Windows 7 zu installieren, die Suchfunktion funktioniert bei mir spontan ohne 
Probleme.

Du wirst also wohl weitere Infos geben müssen, damit Dir jemand helfen kann.


Gruß
Jörg


  



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RE: Introduction and online presence

2021-02-25 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] 
> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 10:35 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Introduction and online presence

> > > It seems that the moderators of the forum point users 
> with issues to use LO, recently to someone with a small issue 
> such as installing the desktop-integration RPM component of 
> AOO on Red Hat Linux.
> 
> I answer only this point: it is frequently the case that 
> Forum moderators and Volunteers are faced with a problem from 
> a user who is panicking about completing a project, and who, 
> by deduction from their post, lacks computer skills. The 
> quickest solution (and easiest for an inexperienced user) may 
> be to direct them to another program, be it LO, or as is 
> often the case, recommend that they revert to MS Office.  
> 
> Volunteers on Forum work, as do those developing, on a pro 
> bono basis (for which all should be grateful); as time is 
> precious to us all, Forum volunteers often take the quickest 
> path to a solution.  It is not their role to educate in the 
> workings of a computer or to lead an inexperienced user on a 
> long step by step path to a possible solution.

This may be true, but we should realize that support work is also work for the
project, work that determines the quality of AOO.
We could improve a lot in volunteer support if we organized our work better.

And I say this as someone who has been regularly volunteering 10-20 hours a week
in the http://de.openoffice.info forum for 15 years, so I know very well the
demands of the field.




greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Introduction and online presence

2021-02-25 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2021 9:22 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; 2018001...@student.sit.ac.nz
> Subject: Re: Introduction and online presence

> My main concern is that some people believe that AOO is not being developed 
> or updated, clearly this is not the case. I would like to point some of the 
> volunteers in marketing, user support/assistance and business management to 
> engage in forums and online communities to show that AOO is still being 
> developed. Specifically, I am referring to 
> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/ and Reddit communities.
Some people say that OpenOffice is dead for 10 years now. IMHO this 
discussion is purely emotional. It is difficult to argue with them.

This dicussioin is NOT emotional, but Abbold of our insufficient public 
relations.
It is clear that you, as a PMC member, are trying to deny this, because the PMC 
has for years been completely inadequate in its responsibility in this regard 
and reacts attacked when it is criticized.


>
> It seems that the moderators of the forum point users with issues to use LO, 
> recently to someone with a small issue such as installing the 
> desktop-integration RPM component of AOO on Red Hat Linux.
>
> It also seems that MS might be dropping support for 32-bit programs, so 
> perhaps a x64 edition of AOO?

> Microsoft 
> stops the OEM 32 bit sale, but will provide support to existing 32bit 
> installs. 

WHERE did you get this? Do you work for Microsoft? Or did you not understand 
the statement of Dean at all?


> And that does not include the 32bit support in 64 bit 
> environment. So there is no risk to be feared. And if someone writes 
> that it is not true. I recommend that he should wonder what happens to 
> his steam collection, since most games are still 32 bit. ;)

Stop formulating personal attacks here, against the opinions of others!




Jörg


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RE: character set

2021-02-20 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Alane [mailto:alaneblachfordpe...@netzero.com] 
> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2021 3:09 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: character set
> 
> Every time this computer shuts down, I have to sign into open 
> office again. When I did this morning, it comes to a screen 
> with character set, language etc. Which character set do I 
> choose for English letters in Illinois. It keeps coming up to 
> Western European and that only opens up as , 
> making the file useless. It will open the file from the 
> recently used list, but if that disappears from the list, I 
> am lost. Luckily I had a backup file and could recopy the 
> file to its original form, a project I have spent most of the 
> year working on. How can I solve this problem and not have to 
> keep signing in. My other computer does not have this 
> problem, but this one is easier to type on and I prefer using it.
> Alane

I don't understand the question because it is not necessary to register with 
OpenOffice, nor is there even the possibility to do so, because there is no 
online registration or anything like that.

So please describe in more detail what it is specifically about.


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: [Discussion] Would we enable volunteers that develop extensions

2021-02-06 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Steve Lubbs [mailto:stevelu...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2021 9:54 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [Discussion] Would we enable volunteers that 
> develop extensions
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> As part of an effort to enable volunteer extension authors 
> would it make 
> sense to selectively approve extension functionality for 
> inclusion into 
> AOO on a case by case basis? If it provides a level of new 
> functionality 
> that is considered important and compelling, say something that is on 
> the wish list and that no one has the time to pursue? For 
> instance a PDF 
> importer that was mentioned earlier.

This is an interesting idea, which I had already mentioned myself (elsewhere). 
However, there is the experience of the past to consider, so that it is 
prevented that extensions, objectively as well as from subjective view of 
users, are regarded as emergency nail.
It should not be allowed (technically) that AOO is delivered with an 
inflationary high number of _individual_ extensions, but there should be (also 
in view of the named purpose to transfer extension code later into core code) a 
kind of main extension as a container for the individual extensions, so that 
especially in the extension manager only the one main extension is visible.

Of course, this requires some organization, i.e. that the extension programmers 
adhere to certain technical conditions, but this effort will pay off in the 
long run.
As an experience value I can refer to the LiMux project 
(https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux), in which I was involved professionally 
over many years, and was occupied there with the conversion of specialized 
applications and VBA macros to OOo extensions. 
At that time, there were very detailed specifications (size around 50 DIN-A4 
pages) for the creation of extensions, which made integration into the overall 
project and maintenance much easier.

Of course, we should be open to any programming languages within the extensions 
(there can also be so-called non-code extensions), but again I would like to 
mention: turning our gaze more towards Python would be quite beneficial, 
especially for extensions to be ported into the core code later. 
A step in this direction might be the development of an integrated Python IDE, 
parallel to the StarBasic IDE, in AOO.  

(I would like to emphasize that my personal Python knowledge is limited, so the 
above is not a personal preference, but a strategic consideration). 

> With the author's permission and effort the extension could 
> be ported to 
> be core code rather than an extension. The author, upon agreeing to 
> these conditions could be given the right of first refusal to be the 
> maintainer of the code. There should also be a proviso that 
> the author 
> will to do the port.
> 
> This, or some permutation, could be one way to reward 
> extension authors 
> for their efforts, provide incentive, 

I think it would also be a motivation to award membership in the PMC according 
to objective performance and not depending on the subjective opinion of 
individuals.



greetings,
Jörg


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RE: imposible to open files

2021-02-05 Thread Jörg Schmidt
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Iouri Tcherniakov, Toronto, Canada 
> [mailto:ycher...@yahoo.com.INVALID] 
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2021 6:24 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: imposible to open files
> 
> After installation update from apple, program Big Sure MacOS 
> version11.1
> Impossible to reopen some files especially one in Exel . 

As far as files in OOXML format are concerned, the problem is known and a 
program update is being worked on, see:
https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/date/20210106

> Looks like need to switch to apple office. This is unacceptable.

And what do we have to do with what is unacceptable to you? Which program you 
use is your decision alone.


Jörg


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RE: [Discussion] Would we enable volunteers that develop extensions

2021-02-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hallo, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Mechtilde [mailto:o...@mechtilde.de] 
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2021 2:12 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [Discussion] Would we enable volunteers that 
> develop extensions
> 
> hello Peter,
> 
> I have one question inline
> 
> Am 01.02.21 um 09:11 schrieb Peter Kovacs:
> > Hello Mechtilde,
> > 
> > 
> > On 01.02.21 08:20, Mechtilde wrote:
> >> Hello Peter,
> >>
> >> I try to build the "extensions" which can be used with AOO 
> Base like
> >> reportbuilder and mysql-connector.
> >>
> >> I also try to build the pdf-importer.
> > Thanks for this great effort.
> >>
> >> IMO you nedd the whole build to get them
> > 
> > technically that might be true, but my thoughts are 
> independent of this.
> > The question is purely organizational.
> > 
> > should extensions be part of the Apache OpenOffice project?
> 
> Is it possible for all extensions. or is it only possible for the
> extensions under Alv2 namely which are still part of the core code?

mmh ... even the German dictionaries that come with the AOO installation 
package are not under Apache license. 
Or is there a dual licensing for that? In the version from the extension page 
(https://extensions.openoffice.org) it says anyway:

"License: GNU GPL Version 2 or GPL Version 3 or OASIS 0.1".


Jörg


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RE: [Discussion] Would we enable volunteers that develop extensions

2021-02-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2021 7:47 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: [Discussion] Would we enable volunteers that develop 
> extensions
> 
> I have a question. How much willing are we to support extensions.
> 
> I mean we have here a voice recognition questions, there is the 
> reporting tool or wiki extension.
> 
> We already thinking on creating repos for reporting tool or the wiki 
> extensions.
> 
> But how do we deal with those topics on the organisatorical level?
> 
> Do we form I do not know how to name them, task force around them? Do 
> the people who whish to be delevop these functions do this in 
> an outside 
> project (independant if this is a Apache project or github self 
> sufficient hosted)
> 
> 
> I would opt that we agree on some form to enable volunteer to use the 
> project infrastructure and provide them with a stronger feeling that 
> they are part of the project even if they are only working on an 
> extension of none core features.
> 
> This makes it easier to bring the community together. I mean 
> the wording 
> 3rd parties bring a lot of discussion and the need to explain 
> things, to 
> the table.
> 
> 
> I am just wondering what everyone else thinks.


I don't see the need for 'organizational support'.

On the other hand, there would be a need for technical improvements:
-to the extension manager itself
-the extension web page 
-to the documentation
and probably also the coordination with LO to keep the 'extension mechanism' 
compatible to AOO and LO. e.g. the problem of different handling of toolsbars 
has existed for a long time [1].

Important would be also the improvement of the tools for extension programmers, 
e.g. the improvement of the BASIC IDE, e.g. an integrated development 
environment for Python, e.g. the thorough revision of 
https://extensions.openoffice.org/en/project/basicaddonbuilder-extensions-packager.

The latter is/was a personal concern of mine, so I thought about crowdfunding 
it years ago, but it doesn't seem realistic, because there are too few 
interested people.


[1]
some info about this, with reference to BasicAddonBuilder, can be found here:
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions_Packager#BasicAddonBuilder_and_AOO_4.x




greetings,
Jörg


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RE: simple "clipboard" needed for write and spreadsheet

2021-01-28 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello, 

> -Original Message-
> From: James Jenkins [mailto:ljenki...@centurylink.net] 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 5:09 PM
> To: Apache Openoffice
> Subject: simple "clipboard" needed for write and spreadsheet
> 
> I've been using "OO" for many years, now need a clipboard, 
> don't really 
> want to go to "Libre"
> 
> I need a simple "Clipboard" for "OO" for both spreadsheet and write 
> Win10 (64 bit)

And LibreOffice has such a clipboard? Where?

imho:
OO, as well as LO, use the normal clipboard of the operating system. 


greetings,
Jörg


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RE: Who is the Project? was: OS2 code

2021-01-20 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 10:45 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Who is the Project? was: OS2 code
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Your question is valis. But the answer is might be a little fuzzy.
> 
>  From a formal view an Apache Project needs a PMC with some 
> members and 
> some committers (all PMC members are "committers", but some 
> committers 
> might not be PMC members).
> 
> But that is not the whole truth, esp. not for the Apache 
> OpenOffice project.
> 
> This project and its community is much larger than the PMC 
> and the group 
> of "committers". There are people doing for example user support in a 
> great way without being committers. (They do not need 
> committer's rignts 
> for doing it.) There are some more examples.
> 
> Someone can also do a job normally a committer does if (s)he has a 
> committer as "sponsor".
> 
> So being part of the Apache OpenOffice project and its 
> community depends 
> oo a nonformal acceptance by "peers", not on a formal status.

I would like to express a criticism [1] in this regard:

But to be able to do certain things in the project, _which essentially 
determine the direction of the project_ (e.g. release) depends very much on the 
status.

Unfortunately, some project members are denied this status for no reason. (I 
write "no reason" because it was explained to me that there are no personal 
reasons for this)



[1]
Excuse me, but I would like to state right away: I am expressing factual 
criticism here and am not writing a 'poisoned mail' or conducting a personnel 
discussion.


Jörg


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RE: [REVIEW] How to display the platform hint text for Windows, Linux and macOS?

2021-01-10 Thread Jörg Schmidt
> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 7:48 PM
> To: dev@
> Subject: [REVIEW] How to display the platform hint text for 
> Windows, Linux and macOS?
> 
> As discussed, I've tried to move the platform hint text from the side 
> into a separate button below the both download buttons:
> 
> https://openoffice-org.staged.apache.org/download/index.html
> 
> The color for border and text is different to the download 
> buttons. For 
> the sure the combination is not perfect, but just to show that a 
> difference makes sense.

+1

I think this will catch the eyes and help some users.



Jörg


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