Re: [OPINION VOTE] CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04

[Jim Jagielski]

I am also re-leaning back to being super OK w/ CentOS7. After all, we've 
already been using it for various 4.2.0-dev builds.

Also, I am not really all that worried about using old, deprecated, EOL 
platforms *as community build servers*. The goal for those builds is that they 
support as large and as wide (and as old, reasonably) set of users as possible. 
So what if the build servers are old... they are just build servers. We aren't 
running them as anything else. So what if the versions of gcc are old, for 
example? As long as the binaries produced still run OK on old and new 
platforms, what's the problem?

And again, I am fine with us producing 2 sets of Linux community builds: one 
for "legacy" users, using CentOS7, and one for "current" users using CentOS8 
(or some current flavor of Ubuntu). The latter would, of course, be 64bit only. 
I don't mind the additional workload if it helps our community.

> On Nov 10, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
> Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> Cast your vote:
>>   [X]   CentOS7
>>   [ ]   Ubuntu 14.04
>>   [ ]   Something else: 
> 
> CentOS 7 builds will run under Ubuntu 13.x too. While CentOS 7 32-bit would 
> be unsupported, the 64-bit version would receive maintenance until 2024; 
> Ubuntu 14.04, instead, is already unsupported both in 32-bit and 64-bit.
> 
> EPEL unavailability for 32-bit might be an issue though.
> 
> Regards,
>  Andrea.
> 
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Re: [OPINION VOTE] CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04

[Andrea Pescetti]

Damjan Jovanovic wrote:

AppImage and Snap packages would be the best, as those are multi-distro,
portable apps, do desktop integration, user friendly, standard
uninstallation, etc.


I'm singling this out as this is a different discussion, related to how 
we package rather than how we build. I must say I quite agree with this 
and my main concern is that this approach is rather "modern" for our 
baseline.


For sure we can't add yet another Linux packaging; and before replacing 
the current packaging (which must be done in some way for 4.2.0, anyway) 
we'd need to ensure we are not restricting compatibility too much.


AppImage might have a slight edge here.

Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: [OPINION VOTE] CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04

[Andrea Pescetti]

Jim Jagielski wrote:

Cast your vote:
   [X]   CentOS7
   [ ]   Ubuntu 14.04
   [ ]   Something else: 


CentOS 7 builds will run under Ubuntu 13.x too. While CentOS 7 32-bit 
would be unsupported, the 64-bit version would receive maintenance until 
2024; Ubuntu 14.04, instead, is already unsupported both in 32-bit and 
64-bit.


EPEL unavailability for 32-bit might be an issue though.

Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: [OPINION VOTE] CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04

[Don Lewis]

On 10 Nov, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> CentOS7: glibc 2.17
> Ubuntu 14.04: glibc 2.19 
> 
> Since CentOS7 emulates the "super stable" worldview of RHEL, the
> CentOS7 version will likely always be the older one.

In that case I think a Ubuntu build is unlikely to run on CentOS 7.


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Re: [OPINION VOTE] CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04

[Mechtilde]

Hello,

we can't look only for 32 bit vs 64 bit versions for Linux.

We must also look for Java version 8 vs Java version 11.

So at this point we should start with a plttform which also support java 8

So this should discuss after releasing AOO version 4.1.8

I will give my Vote after evaluating these points.

I'm against Ubuntu version 14.04.

Kind regards

Mechtilde

Am 10.11.20 um 20:37 schrieb Marcus:
> Am 10.11.20 um 19:23 schrieb Marcus:
>> Am 10.11.20 um 18:58 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>> History: For previous AOO releases (up to 4.1.8), we have used
>>>   CentOS5 as our build environ for our community builds.
>>>   As of 4.2.x, this is no longer an option. Instead, we
>>>   baselined CentOS7 (mainly due to gstreamer 1.0).
>>>
>>> Discussion: The issue w/ CentOS7 is that the 32bit version is
>>>  not officially supported. This means that for our
>>>  32bit builds we are using an unsupported platform.
>>>  Instead of using CentOS7, we could instead baseline
>>>  Ubuntu 14.04, which is both 64 and 32bit as well as
>>>  both under LTS.
>>>
>>>  So the question is: CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04?
>>
>> CentOS 7 32-bit is supported as an offical platform:
>> https://wiki.centos.org/About/Product
>>
>>> Cast your vote:
>>>
>>>    [ ]   CentOS7
>>>    [ ]   Ubuntu 14.04
>>>    [X]   Something else: 
> 
> I've corrected my vote due to Jim's hint:
> 
> Ubuntu 18.04 (support until April 2023).
> 
> Some more details:
> 
> Since 19.10. there will be no 32-bit support anymore.
> 
> It seems even for us it will get very hard to find a baseline OS that
> includes 32-bit support *and* also modern frameworks and libaries (e.g.,
> glibc, gstreamer, etc).
> 
> IMHO we have some more years, and then we need to re-think our 32-bit
> support, too.
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
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-- 
Mechtilde Stehmann
## Apache OpenOffice
## Freie Office Suite für Linux, MacOSX, Windows und OS/2
## Debian Developer
## PGP encryption welcome
## F0E3 7F3D C87A 4998 2899  39E7 F287 7BBA 141A AD7F

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Re: [OPINION VOTE] CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04

[Marcus]

Am 10.11.20 um 19:23 schrieb Marcus:

Am 10.11.20 um 18:58 schrieb Jim Jagielski:

History: For previous AOO releases (up to 4.1.8), we have used
  CentOS5 as our build environ for our community builds.
  As of 4.2.x, this is no longer an option. Instead, we
  baselined CentOS7 (mainly due to gstreamer 1.0).

Discussion: The issue w/ CentOS7 is that the 32bit version is
 not officially supported. This means that for our
 32bit builds we are using an unsupported platform.
 Instead of using CentOS7, we could instead baseline
 Ubuntu 14.04, which is both 64 and 32bit as well as
 both under LTS.

 So the question is: CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04?


CentOS 7 32-bit is supported as an offical platform:
https://wiki.centos.org/About/Product


Cast your vote:

   [ ]   CentOS7
   [ ]   Ubuntu 14.04
   [X]   Something else: 


I've corrected my vote due to Jim's hint:

Ubuntu 18.04 (support until April 2023).

Some more details:

Since 19.10. there will be no 32-bit support anymore.

It seems even for us it will get very hard to find a baseline OS that 
includes 32-bit support *and* also modern frameworks and libaries (e.g., 
glibc, gstreamer, etc).


IMHO we have some more years, and then we need to re-think our 32-bit 
support, too.


Marcus


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Re: [OPINION VOTE] CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04

[Jim Jagielski]

CentOS7: glibc 2.17
Ubuntu 14.04: glibc 2.19 

Since CentOS7 emulates the "super stable" worldview of RHEL, the CentOS7 
version will likely always be the older one.


> On Nov 10, 2020, at 1:02 PM, Don Lewis  wrote:
> 
> On 10 Nov, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> History: For previous AOO releases (up to 4.1.8), we have used
>> CentOS5 as our build environ for our community builds.
>> As of 4.2.x, this is no longer an option. Instead, we
>> baselined CentOS7 (mainly due to gstreamer 1.0).
>> 
>> Discussion: The issue w/ CentOS7 is that the 32bit version is
>>not officially supported. This means that for our
>>32bit builds we are using an unsupported platform.
>>Instead of using CentOS7, we could instead baseline
>>Ubuntu 14.04, which is both 64 and 32bit as well as
>>both under LTS.
>> 
>>So the question is: CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04?
> 
> What are the gcc/glibc versions of both?  If we build on the distro with
> the newer versions, the result won't run on the older version.
> 
> 
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Re: [OPINION VOTE] CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04

[Jim Jagielski]

> On Nov 10, 2020, at 1:23 PM, Marcus  wrote:
> 
> Am 10.11.20 um 18:58 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>> History: For previous AOO releases (up to 4.1.8), we have used
>>  CentOS5 as our build environ for our community builds.
>>  As of 4.2.x, this is no longer an option. Instead, we
>>  baselined CentOS7 (mainly due to gstreamer 1.0).
>> Discussion: The issue w/ CentOS7 is that the 32bit version is
>> not officially supported. This means that for our
>> 32bit builds we are using an unsupported platform.
>> Instead of using CentOS7, we could instead baseline
>> Ubuntu 14.04, which is both 64 and 32bit as well as
>> both under LTS.
>> So the question is: CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04?
> 
> CentOS 7 32-bit is supported as an offical platform:
> https://wiki.centos.org/About/Product
> 

Only as AltArch... which means that EPEL isn't available for it, for example. 
Also, it looks like VMware doesn't officially support CentOS7-32 as a guest OS.


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Re: [OPINION VOTE] CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04

[Damjan Jovanovic]

On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 7:58 PM Jim Jagielski  wrote:

> History: For previous AOO releases (up to 4.1.8), we have used
>  CentOS5 as our build environ for our community builds.
>  As of 4.2.x, this is no longer an option. Instead, we
>  baselined CentOS7 (mainly due to gstreamer 1.0).
>
> Discussion: The issue w/ CentOS7 is that the 32bit version is
> not officially supported. This means that for our
> 32bit builds we are using an unsupported platform.
> Instead of using CentOS7, we could instead baseline
> Ubuntu 14.04, which is both 64 and 32bit as well as
> both under LTS.
>
> So the question is: CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04?
>
> Cast your vote:
>
>   [ ]   CentOS7
>   [ ]   Ubuntu 14.04
>   [X]   Something else:

Debian if it has to be a distro.
AppImage and Snap packages would be the best, as those are multi-distro,
portable apps, do desktop integration, user friendly, standard
uninstallation, etc.

Damjan

Re: [OPINION VOTE] CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04

[Marcus]

Am 10.11.20 um 18:58 schrieb Jim Jagielski:

History: For previous AOO releases (up to 4.1.8), we have used
  CentOS5 as our build environ for our community builds.
  As of 4.2.x, this is no longer an option. Instead, we
  baselined CentOS7 (mainly due to gstreamer 1.0).

Discussion: The issue w/ CentOS7 is that the 32bit version is
 not officially supported. This means that for our
 32bit builds we are using an unsupported platform.
 Instead of using CentOS7, we could instead baseline
 Ubuntu 14.04, which is both 64 and 32bit as well as
 both under LTS.

 So the question is: CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04?


CentOS 7 32-bit is supported as an offical platform:
https://wiki.centos.org/About/Product


Cast your vote:

   [X]   CentOS7
   [ ]   Ubuntu 14.04
   [ ]   Something else: 


Marcus


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Re: [OPINION VOTE] CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04

[Benjamen Meyer]

On 11/10/20 1:02 PM, Don Lewis wrote:
> On 10 Nov, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> History: For previous AOO releases (up to 4.1.8), we have used
>>  CentOS5 as our build environ for our community builds.
>>  As of 4.2.x, this is no longer an option. Instead, we
>>  baselined CentOS7 (mainly due to gstreamer 1.0).
>>
>> Discussion: The issue w/ CentOS7 is that the 32bit version is
>> not officially supported. This means that for our
>> 32bit builds we are using an unsupported platform.
>> Instead of using CentOS7, we could instead baseline
>> Ubuntu 14.04, which is both 64 and 32bit as well as
>> both under LTS.
>>
>> So the question is: CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04?
> 
> What are the gcc/glibc versions of both?  If we build on the distro with
> the newer versions, the result won't run on the older version.

Keep in mind, CentOS 7 will only be fully supported through December
2020 (https://wiki.centos.org/About/Product). If you want to stay with
CentOS then you probably want to look at CentOS 8 (December 2024).

Similar situation with Ubuntu 14.04 (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases)
though not it ended standard support April 2019. You may want to look at
Ubuntu 16.04 (April 2021) or Ubuntu 18.04 (April 2023).

If 32-bit is a driving concern, then you might want to actually look at
Debian (https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBuster) which unlike Ubuntu is
still supporting 32-bit systems AFAICT (i386 is still listed as a
supported platform).

$0.02 FWIW

Ben


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Re: [OPINION VOTE] CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04

[Don Lewis]

On 10 Nov, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> History: For previous AOO releases (up to 4.1.8), we have used
>  CentOS5 as our build environ for our community builds.
>  As of 4.2.x, this is no longer an option. Instead, we
>  baselined CentOS7 (mainly due to gstreamer 1.0).
> 
> Discussion: The issue w/ CentOS7 is that the 32bit version is
> not officially supported. This means that for our
> 32bit builds we are using an unsupported platform.
> Instead of using CentOS7, we could instead baseline
> Ubuntu 14.04, which is both 64 and 32bit as well as
> both under LTS.
> 
> So the question is: CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04?

What are the gcc/glibc versions of both?  If we build on the distro with
the newer versions, the result won't run on the older version.


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Re: [OPINION VOTE] CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04

[Jim Jagielski]

> On Nov 10, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> History: For previous AOO releases (up to 4.1.8), we have used
> CentOS5 as our build environ for our community builds.
> As of 4.2.x, this is no longer an option. Instead, we
> baselined CentOS7 (mainly due to gstreamer 1.0).
> 
> Discussion: The issue w/ CentOS7 is that the 32bit version is
>not officially supported. This means that for our
>32bit builds we are using an unsupported platform.
>Instead of using CentOS7, we could instead baseline
>Ubuntu 14.04, which is both 64 and 32bit as well as
>both under LTS.
> 
>So the question is: CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04?
> 
> Cast your vote:
> 
>  [ ]   CentOS7
>  [X]   Ubuntu 14.04
>  [ ]   Something else: 
> 

Yep... I think Ubuntu is the better choice.

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[OPINION VOTE] CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04

[Jim Jagielski]

History: For previous AOO releases (up to 4.1.8), we have used
 CentOS5 as our build environ for our community builds.
 As of 4.2.x, this is no longer an option. Instead, we
 baselined CentOS7 (mainly due to gstreamer 1.0).

Discussion: The issue w/ CentOS7 is that the 32bit version is
not officially supported. This means that for our
32bit builds we are using an unsupported platform.
Instead of using CentOS7, we could instead baseline
Ubuntu 14.04, which is both 64 and 32bit as well as
both under LTS.

So the question is: CentOS7 or Ubuntu 14.04?

Cast your vote:

  [ ]   CentOS7
  [ ]   Ubuntu 14.04
  [ ]   Something else: 



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