Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
... iPanel? ...iBar? ...iSidebar? ...iTools? On 24.05.2013 08:49, Jörg Schmidt wrote: -Original Message- From: Andrew Rist [mailto:andrew.r...@oracle.com] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 8:34 PM To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Find a better name for sidebar? SmartPanel ? Yes, not bad. That sounds good. Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
why i, I'd say oPanel or aPanel +1 On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 7:25 AM, Armin Le Grand armin.le.gr...@me.comwrote: ... iPanel? ...iBar? ...iSidebar? ...iTools? On 24.05.2013 08:49, Jörg Schmidt wrote: -Original Message- From: Andrew Rist [mailto:andrew.r...@oracle.com**] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 8:34 PM To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Find a better name for sidebar? SmartPanel ? Yes, not bad. That sounds good. Greetings, Jörg --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.orgdev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.orgdev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
We'll sidebar doesn't in anyway indicate it can't be edited. Many people use blogging systems, and sidebars are editable. On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 5:27 AM, Regina Henschel rb.hensc...@t-online.dewrote: Hi, Shari Smith schrieb: How about User Box or User Panel? UP Box (User Panel Box; UP the side) A user cannot customize the sidebar beyond disabling a deck. Therefor _User_ Box might arouse expectations that cannot be answered. Kind regards Regina On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Jörg Schmidt joe...@j-m-schmidt.de wrote: Hello, From: Andre Fischer [mailto:awf@gmail.com] I am quite aware of the difference between a generic name and a marketable brand name. I just don't think that the sidebar deserves this honor. That may be, just may be the criterion that if you want success? It proverb says: It does not matter what color the cat is, the main thing it catches mice. Therefore, it may be so that the sidebar does not deserve a separate name, just say no need not not allowed. Hm, I think that we should be careful about our claims. The sidebar in itself is a me-too feature, not the first of its kind. If we want to market it then we have to find the aspects of the sidebar that are unique or better than in other applications. If we already have them, great. If not then we should work for 4.1 to get them. It appears that the sidebar now gets attention from a lot of people in this community. It would be great if we could turn this attention into a list of new ideas for improvements and new features of the sidebar. Yes, that's right. I think if you look for improvements, you should see who can help as a multiplier. In the sidebar that are e.g. the macro developer that could use the sidebar in their applications. My inquiry to a few months ago but unfortunately had little resonance. This here would be an area where we could greatly advance AOO, that if we increase the opportunities for macro programmers, whether. In the Basic DIE, or with respect to the simple usability of the sidebar in macros Look at MS Office, a large part of its success is owed o the applications the macro developer, based on this, to end users, program. Greetings, Jörg --**--** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.orgdev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.orgdev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
Hi 2013/5/27 Shari Smith shari.sm...@uneedstuff.com: why i, I'd say oPanel or aPanel +1 Effectively panel is interesting in our local context, so [a|I|o]Panel is a good way. More yet if in the furure the formating toolbar will be disabled. Better(IMHO) if we improve this *panel* with Renaissance4 CWS[1] [1]http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@openoffice.apache.org/msg07311.html Claudio. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
I would propose Panoply from pan (all) + oply (arms)=toolbars «Because a panoply is a complete set of diverse components, the word panoply has come to refer to any complete or impressive collection, especially one of weaponry or where it is displayed, thus an arsenal or armory.» It's widely translatable, and for marketing point of view powerfull :-) de. Panoplie es., pl., it. Panoplia pt. Panóplia ru. Паноплия ... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
Hello, From: Jürgen Schmidt [mailto:jogischm...@gmail.com] I believe you put far too much weight in a name of an of course good feature. [...] I think it's not so good that you wrote for me to post only the marketing you would be important to you again now that relativize. Please tell me what you think, and _not_ things that listen to me good, because we only come forward when clearly is what each of us really think. *Courtesy replaced no clarity of content.* My conclusion is that we should not ignore the quality of the code (QA, ...), but my conclusion is that we should learn from LO in terms of marketing. (such as LO would do well to improve their code quality) And that's all I can say. Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
Hello, From: Andre Fischer [mailto:awf@gmail.com] I am quite aware of the difference between a generic name and a marketable brand name. I just don't think that the sidebar deserves this honor. That may be, just may be the criterion that if you want success? It proverb says: It does not matter what color the cat is, the main thing it catches mice. Therefore, it may be so that the sidebar does not deserve a separate name, just say no need not not allowed. Hm, I think that we should be careful about our claims. The sidebar in itself is a me-too feature, not the first of its kind. If we want to market it then we have to find the aspects of the sidebar that are unique or better than in other applications. If we already have them, great. If not then we should work for 4.1 to get them. It appears that the sidebar now gets attention from a lot of people in this community. It would be great if we could turn this attention into a list of new ideas for improvements and new features of the sidebar. Yes, that's right. I think if you look for improvements, you should see who can help as a multiplier. In the sidebar that are e.g. the macro developer that could use the sidebar in their applications. My inquiry to a few months ago but unfortunately had little resonance. This here would be an area where we could greatly advance AOO, that if we increase the opportunities for macro programmers, whether. In the Basic DIE, or with respect to the simple usability of the sidebar in macros Look at MS Office, a large part of its success is owed o the applications the macro developer, based on this, to end users, program. Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
How about User Box or User Panel? UP Box (User Panel Box; UP the side) On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Jörg Schmidt joe...@j-m-schmidt.de wrote: Hello, From: Andre Fischer [mailto:awf@gmail.com] I am quite aware of the difference between a generic name and a marketable brand name. I just don't think that the sidebar deserves this honor. That may be, just may be the criterion that if you want success? It proverb says: It does not matter what color the cat is, the main thing it catches mice. Therefore, it may be so that the sidebar does not deserve a separate name, just say no need not not allowed. Hm, I think that we should be careful about our claims. The sidebar in itself is a me-too feature, not the first of its kind. If we want to market it then we have to find the aspects of the sidebar that are unique or better than in other applications. If we already have them, great. If not then we should work for 4.1 to get them. It appears that the sidebar now gets attention from a lot of people in this community. It would be great if we could turn this attention into a list of new ideas for improvements and new features of the sidebar. Yes, that's right. I think if you look for improvements, you should see who can help as a multiplier. In the sidebar that are e.g. the macro developer that could use the sidebar in their applications. My inquiry to a few months ago but unfortunately had little resonance. This here would be an area where we could greatly advance AOO, that if we increase the opportunities for macro programmers, whether. In the Basic DIE, or with respect to the simple usability of the sidebar in macros Look at MS Office, a large part of its success is owed o the applications the macro developer, based on this, to end users, program. Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
-Original Message- From: Andrew Rist [mailto:andrew.r...@oracle.com] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 8:34 PM To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Find a better name for sidebar? SmartPanel ? Yes, not bad. That sounds good. Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
Hello, From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] It isn't. You raised a point that is indeed new. Nobody so far had thought about the naming issue. But I agree that you have a point here: if it is a unique feature, it makes sense to at least think about a possible cute name for it. You contributed a fresh point of view into the project, and nobody complained about this. yes, of course. With my answer, I tried to consider only the practical aspect, which to me was clear by Jürgens answer, namely that my thoughts are maybe not bad, but the timing is unfavorable. It is very important to the AOO has good technical quality, but if we believe it is sufficient for success, we are wrong. Our developers are very reasonable people. Juergen gave pragmatic answers... that were totally to be expected if you come up with this idea on the same day when we finalize the help contents for translation! But for sure our developers do not expect to be worshipped and they are very friendly towards the community at large (remember, they do subscribe to this list and live with it despite the huge amount of non-technical content here). So I don't agree with your opinion that developers cannot see that marketing is important: they do see it, but their day-to-day concern is to produce high-quality software... and give other volunteers awesome software to promote! Sorry, but *that is not my view!* I do not think developers could not see the importance of marketing, I had only a presumption, which considers Jürgen good code to be much more important than marketing. (and Jürgen has already stated that my guess is not at all true) It is just an opinion which priorities are set, only it would be wrong to think that one of both (code or marketing) would be unimportant, this is not happening. Gretings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
On 24.05.2013 00:52, Andrea Pescetti wrote: Jörg Schmidt wrote: reflect together about a better name for sidebar, maybe we can find a better name. Call it OpenBar then. Open like OpenOffice. Bar like in Toolbar. And Open Bar like get everything you want for free. Oh well. Everything You answer me, that's my suggestion is apparently uncomfortable. It isn't. You raised a point that is indeed new. Nobody so far had thought about the naming issue. That is not quite true. I asked on this list a couple of months ago about how to name things. I did not get many replies, so I chose the names myself an noted them in the glossary of the sidebar wiki page. I did not invent any of the names, I just chose from what was already there (old Impress tool panel, Symphony sidebar). I personally still prefer the name sidebar. I believe that ,any users will have intuitively at least a general understanding when they hear that name. This is a semi-established name. From [1] : Sidebar (computing) The *sidebar* is a term that is used for a GUI element http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elements_of_graphical_user_interfaces that displays various forms of information to the side of an application or desktop user interface. Why invent a new name that everybody has to learn. Besides, for practical reasons it would be nice to use the same name for the sidebar on the UI and in the implementation. Not doing this can be quite confusing as I have learned from the old Impress sidebar aka toolpanel aka taskpane. It is way to late to rename the implementation. I do see the need for good marketing and at the moment the sidebar may appear to be a shiny new thing. I do believe that it is an improvement of usability. But lets be objective, it is something that other applications and even AOO had for a while: look at wordperfect, kword, Impress. -Andre [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidebar_%28computing%29 But I agree that you have a point here: if it is a unique feature, it makes sense to at least think about a possible cute name for it. You contributed a fresh point of view into the project, and nobody complained about this. It is very important to the AOO has good technical quality, but if we believe it is sufficient for success, we are wrong. Our developers are very reasonable people. Juergen gave pragmatic answers... that were totally to be expected if you come up with this idea on the same day when we finalize the help contents for translation! But for sure our developers do not expect to be worshipped and they are very friendly towards the community at large (remember, they do subscribe to this list and live with it despite the huge amount of non-technical content here). So I don't agree with your opinion that developers cannot see that marketing is important: they do see it, but their day-to-day concern is to produce high-quality software... and give other volunteers awesome software to promote! Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
On 5/24/13 9:47 AM, Jörg Schmidt wrote: I do see the need for good marketing ??? I do not understand this statement. i am so sorry I had mistakenly read dont instead of do I believe you put far too much weight in a name of an of course good feature. The sidebar is a concept to improve the usability for many features we already have and it is hopefully only the beginning. And it is also the entry point to hook external features smoothly in the office. I can think of many nice things that be hooked as a new deck with one or more content panels... But nobody will talk about deck or content panels, that are internal technical names. People will talk about a new sidebar if at all or will simply use it. We can of course do very good marketing by simply start working on a campaign to promote the feature itself. Again I would love to see some nice screencast and other useful stuff, blog posts, or complete articles. But instead of really start working on such a campaign, people start discussing a name. Such discussion involves always many people because it is so easy to express the own opinion but do nothing. And besides the fact that sidebar is already settled in many heads (including users) we don't have a better name yet. Nothing of the proposed names is worth the effort of such a change now fro my point of view. And I don't think that it is necessary to do proper marketing ;-) Juergen Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
I'm cutting previous quotes, as many of the arguments in them are not immediately relevant to the question of a suuitable name. I would argue against the use of bar in connection with the sidepanel. It is not a bar in the normal understanding of the word in computing - a bar being long and thin and (typically) one icon tall, although there can be exceptions. Panel or box is in my view more descriptive. We might consider variations on a car or aeroplane's instrument panel or control panel or perhaps a ship's binnacle or a human nerve centre or medically a monitoring console. -- Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
On 24.05.2013 09:34, Jörg Schmidt wrote: Hello, From: Andre Fischer [mailto:awf@gmail.com] Open like OpenOffice. Bar like in Toolbar. And Open Bar like get everything you want for free. Oh well. Everything You answer me, that's my suggestion is apparently uncomfortable. It isn't. You raised a point that is indeed new. Nobody so far had thought about the naming issue. That is not quite true. I asked on this list a couple of months ago about how to name things. I did not get many replies, so I chose the names myself an noted them in the glossary of the sidebar wiki page. I did not invent any of the names, I just chose from what was already there (old Impress tool panel, Symphony sidebar). I personally still prefer the name sidebar. I believe that ,any users will have intuitively at least a general understanding when they hear that name. This is a semi-established name. From [1] : Sorry, but you do not understand the essential point, of course, as everyone understands 'brown soda with cola taste', but is a much better word like Pepsi or Coke. I am quite aware of the difference between a generic name and a marketable brand name. I just don't think that the sidebar deserves this honor. At least that's my thought. I do see the need for good marketing ??? I do not understand this statement. But lets be objective, it is something that other applications and even AOO had for a while: look at wordperfect, kword, Impress. Objectively correct, but that is not the way of looking at how marketing works. To me it is not so important whether one or marketing code (QA, ...) holds for a little more important, but the point is *also a good product* needs good marketing. Or would you do if you you are applying for a job, you actually talk about the only one developer to how many other developers as well? I think you would your benefits (your knowledge, your experience) turn out, even if objectively many others the same as you know and can. Hm, I think that we should be careful about our claims. The sidebar in itself is a me-too feature, not the first of its kind. If we want to market it then we have to find the aspects of the sidebar that are unique or better than in other applications. If we already have them, great. If not then we should work for 4.1 to get them. It appears that the sidebar now gets attention from a lot of people in this community. It would be great if we could turn this attention into a list of new ideas for improvements and new features of the sidebar. -Andre Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Find a better name for sidebar?
Hello, Would not it make sense to think about the sidebar to give a distinctive name? OOo and StarOffice but were really known for standalone name of GUI elements. What I mean are terms such as Navigator, Giesskanne or Datenpilot (all German). I think the sidebar is very welcomed by our users (so much so that LibreOffice is to copy it) and I think she deserves a distinctive name. A catchy name would also be good for the marketing for the new sidebar. Is it possible to finding a name to make a brainstorming session? Or to write out a little contest? Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
On Thu, 23 May 2013 10:16:55 +0200 Jörg Schmidt joe...@j-m-schmidt.de wrote: Hello, Would not it make sense to think about the sidebar to give a distinctive name? OOo and StarOffice but were really known for standalone name of GUI elements. What I mean are terms such as Navigator, Giesskanne or Datenpilot (all German). I think the sidebar is very welcomed by our users (so much so that LibreOffice is to copy it) and I think she deserves a distinctive name. A catchy name would also be good for the marketing for the new sidebar. Is it possible to finding a name to make a brainstorming session? Or to write out a little contest? Navigator is already taken (F5 key turns it on/off). Toolbar is inaccurate and in too common use; I have seen Toolbox used in other programs (years ago in CP/M and early MSDOS days). Perhaps Toolpanel? -- Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
On 5/23/13 10:16 AM, Jörg Schmidt wrote: Hello, Would not it make sense to think about the sidebar to give a distinctive name? OOo and StarOffice but were really known for standalone name of GUI elements. What I mean are terms such as Navigator, Giesskanne or Datenpilot (all German). I think the sidebar is very welcomed by our users (so much so that LibreOffice is to copy it) and I think she deserves a distinctive name. A catchy name would also be good for the marketing for the new sidebar. Is it possible to finding a name to make a brainstorming session? Or to write out a little contest? well sidebar as name is now flowing around since months and now it is simply to late from my perspective. Juergen Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
Hello Jürgen, *, From: Jürgen Schmidt [mailto:jogischm...@gmail.com] well sidebar as name is now flowing around since months and now it is simply to late from my perspective. You're right, but ... We should, I think, also be careful to promote our program perfectly. What relates to the sidebar, it has given me with this thinking as Thorsten (Behrends) in Diskusion at the congress in Berlin (http://www.frodev.org/odf-workshop) came under pressure for users to have to promise a sidebar for LO, without which he would have wanted that. If we can not prevent already copying our sidebar (in the spirit of free software copy is already positive), because we should not pay attention to our sidebar as something special, as the true original highlight? Please also see the difference and the potential advantage for our program - a sidebar is just a sidebar but a ...our special name for *our* sidebar... is a little bit more, is the original. Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 6:55 AM, Jörg Schmidt joe...@j-m-schmidt.de wrote: Please also see the difference and the potential advantage for our program - a sidebar is just a sidebar but a ...our special name for *our* sidebar... is a little bit more, is the original. +1 FC - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
On 5/23/13 11:55 AM, Jörg Schmidt wrote: Hello Jürgen, *, From: Jürgen Schmidt [mailto:jogischm...@gmail.com] well sidebar as name is now flowing around since months and now it is simply to late from my perspective. You're right, but ... We should, I think, also be careful to promote our program perfectly. What relates to the sidebar, it has given me with this thinking as Thorsten (Behrends) in Diskusion at the congress in Berlin (http://www.frodev.org/odf-workshop) came under pressure for users to have to promise a sidebar for LO, without which he would have wanted that. If we can not prevent already copying our sidebar (in the spirit of free software copy is already positive), because we should not pay attention to our sidebar as something special, as the true original highlight? Please also see the difference and the potential advantage for our program - a sidebar is just a sidebar but a ...our special name for *our* sidebar... is a little bit more, is the original. we can start promote this feature already, we can create screencasts, can blog about it, can make clear where it comes from ... If LO copy the sidebar (and I am sure they will) it's a good signal and users will learn over time where the real value comes from. We are here and open for collaboration. Let people ask why they keep this fork alive and why they don't join us. TDF can continue what they are doing today but we would work on one common code base. Everything else is wasted time and wasted resources. If you want to start to do more and better marketing for AOO please do that. At the moment is important that we focus on a good AOO 4.0, work on translation, QA and bug fixes and bring the beast out. Juergen Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
Hello, From: Jürgen Schmidt [mailto:jogischm...@gmail.com] we can start promote this feature already, we can create screencasts, can blog about it, can make clear where it comes from ... If LO copy the sidebar (and I am sure they will) it's a good signal and users will learn over time where the real value comes from. *If we do not take care of it, users will _not_ understand these relationships.* Please ask Oliver for example, how cleverly advertises Thorsten for LibreOffice, and which false image of AOO appears with it. I have it on the Congress in Berlin, experienced. We are here and open for collaboration. Let people ask why they keep this fork alive and why they don't join us. TDF can continue what they are doing today but we would work on one common code base. Everything else is wasted time and wasted resources. If you want to start to do more and better marketing for AOO please do that. At the moment is important that we focus on a good AOO 4.0, work on translation, QA and bug fixes and bring the beast out. A good AOO is not only good code (QA, translation, ...). Sorry, but I'm disappointed because my suggestion was only to reflect together about a better name for sidebar, maybe we can find a better name. Everything You answer me, that's my suggestion is apparently uncomfortable. It is very important to the AOO has good technical quality, but if we believe it is sufficient for success, we are wrong. Good marketing is not an optional extra but a necessity that we should all understand. But it is not so, I because I am aware of these relationships, it also can convert well ourselves. Good marketing is a task for experts, and I think Apache has these experts, but it is our task to initiate the work of these experts, first by recognizing the importance of this work. Specifically, a sound name for our bar would be good for our marketing, we need only the name before then, and not just on the edge. However, this may not work if we do not want it because we think it is not important. Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
Hello, From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] Perhaps Toolpanel? Yes, maybe. What I really am looking for is a term _that can be used without translation into all languages_. Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
2013/5/23 Jörg Schmidt joe...@j-m-schmidt.de Hello, From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] Perhaps Toolpanel? Yes, maybe. What I really am looking for is a term _that can be used without translation into all languages_. That's quite difficult, I think. Just consider that French people use octet instead of byte... Maybe it's better to find a term that it's easy to translate... In fact, I had a bit of trouble translating deck into Spanish in a way that's easy to understand. Regards Ricardo Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
On 5/23/13 1:02 PM, Jörg Schmidt wrote: Hello, From: Jürgen Schmidt [mailto:jogischm...@gmail.com] we can start promote this feature already, we can create screencasts, can blog about it, can make clear where it comes from ... If LO copy the sidebar (and I am sure they will) it's a good signal and users will learn over time where the real value comes from. *If we do not take care of it, users will _not_ understand these relationships.* nobody says that we should not take care of that Please ask Oliver for example, how cleverly advertises Thorsten for LibreOffice, and which false image of AOO appears with it. I have it on the Congress in Berlin, experienced. I know that and yes we don't have the people who are doing the appropriate marketing for AOO yet. We are here and open for collaboration. Let people ask why they keep this fork alive and why they don't join us. TDF can continue what they are doing today but we would work on one common code base. Everything else is wasted time and wasted resources. If you want to start to do more and better marketing for AOO please do that. At the moment is important that we focus on a good AOO 4.0, work on translation, QA and bug fixes and bring the beast out. A good AOO is not only good code (QA, translation, ...). Sorry, but I'm disappointed because my suggestion was only to reflect together about a better name for sidebar, maybe we can find a better name. Everything You answer me, that's my suggestion is apparently uncomfortable. It is very important to the AOO has good technical quality, but if we believe it is sufficient for success, we are wrong. Good marketing is not an optional extra but a necessity that we should all understand. I understand it quite well but in the end the work have to done. The term sidebar is not new and the work is ongoing since month and we have many other things to do. I feel it very mistimed to start such a discussion now. But it is not so, I because I am aware of these relationships, it also can convert well ourselves. Good marketing is a task for experts, and I think Apache has these experts, but it is our task to initiate the work of these experts, first by recognizing the importance of this work. maybe, if such experts are somewhere they should be speak up and should let us know that they are here ;-) Juergen Specifically, a sound name for our bar would be good for our marketing, we need only the name before then, and not just on the edge. However, this may not work if we do not want it because we think it is not important. Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
-Original Message- From: RGB ES [mailto:rgb.m...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:23 PM To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Find a better name for sidebar? 2013/5/23 Jörg Schmidt joe...@j-m-schmidt.de Hello, From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] Perhaps Toolpanel? Yes, maybe. What I really am looking for is a term _that can be used without translation into all languages_. That's quite difficult, I think. yes, but you can also use a synthetic word. An example of such a synthetic word (in german Kunstwort) is the name of the chocolate bar Twix (http://www.juz-nickenich.de/images/twix.jpg). The word Twix has no real content, but _everyone knows exactly what it means_. Do you understand what I mean? Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
I understand it quite well but in the end the work have to done. The term sidebar is not new and the work is ongoing since month and we have many other things to do. I feel it very mistimed to start such a discussion now. You're right, a great discussion, would be at the present time, wrong. But we should not give the chance to someone suggests a word that all like so much that we feel it is right for it to use? It is not meant seriously, but let me say this, I think you believe (I do not know if that's really true) the good code (QA, ...) is _very very very much more_ important than marketing, and I think he's _just much more_ important. ;-) Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
On 5/23/13 2:20 PM, Jörg Schmidt wrote: I understand it quite well but in the end the work have to done. The term sidebar is not new and the work is ongoing since month and we have many other things to do. I feel it very mistimed to start such a discussion now. You're right, a great discussion, would be at the present time, wrong. But we should not give the chance to someone suggests a word that all like so much that we feel it is right for it to use? It is not meant seriously, but let me say this, I think you believe (I do not know if that's really true) the good code (QA, ...) is _very very very much more_ important than marketing, and I think he's _just much more_ important. ;-) no you are wrong, I believe marketing is very important but I have stopped dreaming. We had already several discussion and the outcome was let's say limited... I would be happy if somebody pushed forward with good ideas and a consistent and good strategy. I no expert, I am interested in marketing and have ideas but no time... LO is probably 70-80% marketing and that is something they do quite well. Well I am not sure if I personally would support their aggressive approach, especially because I think that competition against us is stupid and completely off topic but that is something else. They are at least visible, make noise and are well know in the Linux world. And we have 50 million downloads in 1 year with a good product. But again convince me that there are people who are interested and have the skills to do good markting for AOO as well. Juergen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
Hello! I my self like it is more panel than bar but sidebar is quite short term. And short names are somehow more easy. Anyway how about Frank panel. Our Frank is straightforward panel. Best regards Risto Jörg Schmidt [joe...@j-m-schmidt.de] kirjoitti: Hello, Would not it make sense to think about the sidebar to give a distinctive name? OOo and StarOffice but were really known for standalone name of GUI elements. What I mean are terms such as Navigator, Giesskanne or Datenpilot (all German). I think the sidebar is very welcomed by our users (so much so that LibreOffice is to copy it) and I think she deserves a distinctive name. A catchy name would also be good for the marketing for the new sidebar. Is it possible to finding a name to make a brainstorming session? Or to write out a little contest? Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
On May 23, 2013, at 4:17 AM, Jörg Schmidt joe...@j-m-schmidt.de wrote: Hello, Would not it make sense to think about the sidebar to give a distinctive name? Like Awesome Panel? OOo and StarOffice but were really known for standalone name of GUI elements. What I mean are terms such as Navigator, Giesskanne or Datenpilot (all German). I think the sidebar is very welcomed by our users (so much so that LibreOffice is to copy it) and I think she deserves a distinctive name. A catchy name would also be good for the marketing for the new sidebar. Is it possible to finding a name to make a brainstorming session? Or to write out a little contest? Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
On May 23, 2013, at 8:43 AM, Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@gmail.com wrote: On 5/23/13 2:20 PM, Jörg Schmidt wrote: I understand it quite well but in the end the work have to done. The term sidebar is not new and the work is ongoing since month and we have many other things to do. I feel it very mistimed to start such a discussion now. You're right, a great discussion, would be at the present time, wrong. But we should not give the chance to someone suggests a word that all like so much that we feel it is right for it to use? It is not meant seriously, but let me say this, I think you believe (I do not know if that's really true) the good code (QA, ...) is _very very very much more_ important than marketing, and I think he's _just much more_ important. ;-) no you are wrong, I believe marketing is very important but I have stopped dreaming. We had already several discussion and the outcome was let's say limited... I would be happy if somebody pushed forward with good ideas and a consistent and good strategy. I no expert, I am interested in marketing and have ideas but no time... LO is probably 70-80% marketing and that is something they do quite well. Well I am not sure if I personally would support their aggressive approach, especially because I think that competition against us is stupid and completely off topic but that is something else. They are at least visible, make noise and are well know in the Linux world. And we have 50 million downloads in 1 year with a good product. There is is a story of a legal trial, where one of the jurors went up to the losing attorney after the trial and said, I just wanted to let you know that you did a brilliant job. Your arguments were excellent, and you were very persuasive. Unfortunately your opponent had the facts on his side. Of course the winning attorney argued well also. But he did it in a way that put the focus on the facts rather than himself. In the end results are what counts, not the appearance of exertion. A famous marketing effort is usually misdirected, wasted energy. -Rob But again convince me that there are people who are interested and have the skills to do good markting for AOO as well. Juergen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
On May 23, 2013, at 2:06 PM, Jörg Schmidt joe...@j-m-schmidt.de wrote: Hello, From: Rob Weir [mailto:rabas...@gmail.com] Would not it make sense to think about the sidebar to give a distinctive name? Like Awesome Panel? I'm not quite sure how your answer is to understand. (a) Is Awesome Panel a concrete proposal for a name for the sidebar? then: I am correct that you Awesome can translate as super? In this case, I seem super-panel as the preferred term because is super internationally, without translation, more understandable. (b) Or Awesome panel is just a general word to clarify what I mean by distinctive name? then: Yes, I mean a word of this kind More of an analogy. When Firefox enhanced their address bar they renamed it the Awesome Bar. Not sure how it was translated. general: I think now the resonance is on my post, total, too low, and I think Juergen is right that we currently have better things to do. I'm not so excited about it, but it's probably that. Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
SmartPanel ? On 5/23/2013 11:06 AM, Jörg Schmidt wrote: Hello, From: Rob Weir [mailto:rabas...@gmail.com] Would not it make sense to think about the sidebar to give a distinctive name? Like Awesome Panel? I'm not quite sure how your answer is to understand. (a) Is Awesome Panel a concrete proposal for a name for the sidebar? then: I am correct that you Awesome can translate as super? In this case, I seem super-panel as the preferred term because is super internationally, without translation, more understandable. (b) Or Awesome panel is just a general word to clarify what I mean by distinctive name? then: Yes, I mean a word of this kind general: I think now the resonance is on my post, total, too low, and I think Juergen is right that we currently have better things to do. I'm not so excited about it, but it's probably that. Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
Jörg Schmidt wrote: reflect together about a better name for sidebar, maybe we can find a better name. Call it OpenBar then. Open like OpenOffice. Bar like in Toolbar. And Open Bar like get everything you want for free. Oh well. Everything You answer me, that's my suggestion is apparently uncomfortable. It isn't. You raised a point that is indeed new. Nobody so far had thought about the naming issue. But I agree that you have a point here: if it is a unique feature, it makes sense to at least think about a possible cute name for it. You contributed a fresh point of view into the project, and nobody complained about this. It is very important to the AOO has good technical quality, but if we believe it is sufficient for success, we are wrong. Our developers are very reasonable people. Juergen gave pragmatic answers... that were totally to be expected if you come up with this idea on the same day when we finalize the help contents for translation! But for sure our developers do not expect to be worshipped and they are very friendly towards the community at large (remember, they do subscribe to this list and live with it despite the huge amount of non-technical content here). So I don't agree with your opinion that developers cannot see that marketing is important: they do see it, but their day-to-day concern is to produce high-quality software... and give other volunteers awesome software to promote! Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
I don't if it's really to late for finding a handy name for the biggest new feature in AOO. This has to be defined by others. :-) However, if we have some time, I have to say that SuperPanel or SmartPanel are good proposals what can be done by this UI element: Use the panel to do you work in a super smart and super fast way. It's better to discover your tools and styles in a single location than to poke for them in every toolbox and dialog. My 2 ct. Marcus Am 05/23/2013 08:34 PM, schrieb Andrew Rist: SmartPanel ? On 5/23/2013 11:06 AM, Jörg Schmidt wrote: Hello, From: Rob Weir [mailto:rabas...@gmail.com] Would not it make sense to think about the sidebar to give a distinctive name? Like Awesome Panel? I'm not quite sure how your answer is to understand. (a) Is Awesome Panel a concrete proposal for a name for the sidebar? then: I am correct that you Awesome can translate as super? In this case, I seem super-panel as the preferred term because is super internationally, without translation, more understandable. (b) Or Awesome panel is just a general word to clarify what I mean by distinctive name? then: Yes, I mean a word of this kind general: I think now the resonance is on my post, total, too low, and I think Juergen is right that we currently have better things to do. I'm not so excited about it, but it's probably that. Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
On 5/23/2013 3:52 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote: I don't if it's really to late for finding a handy name for the biggest new feature in AOO. This has to be defined by others. :-) However, if we have some time, I have to say that SuperPanel or SmartPanel are good proposals and possibly SmartBar (or is that a snack food?) what can be done by this UI element: Use the panel to do you work in a super smart and super fast way. It's better to discover your tools and styles in a single location than to poke for them in every toolbox and dialog. My 2 ct. Marcus Am 05/23/2013 08:34 PM, schrieb Andrew Rist: SmartPanel ? On 5/23/2013 11:06 AM, Jörg Schmidt wrote: Hello, From: Rob Weir [mailto:rabas...@gmail.com] Would not it make sense to think about the sidebar to give a distinctive name? Like Awesome Panel? I'm not quite sure how your answer is to understand. (a) Is Awesome Panel a concrete proposal for a name for the sidebar? then: I am correct that you Awesome can translate as super? In this case, I seem super-panel as the preferred term because is super internationally, without translation, more understandable. (b) Or Awesome panel is just a general word to clarify what I mean by distinctive name? then: Yes, I mean a word of this kind general: I think now the resonance is on my post, total, too low, and I think Juergen is right that we currently have better things to do. I'm not so excited about it, but it's probably that. Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Find a better name for sidebar?
On 5/23/2013 5:29 PM, Andrew Rist wrote: On 5/23/2013 3:52 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote: I don't if it's really to late for finding a handy name for the biggest new feature in AOO. This has to be defined by others. :-) However, if we have some time, I have to say that SuperPanel or SmartPanel are good proposals and possibly SmartBar (or is that a snack food?) what can be done by this UI element: Use the panel to do you work in a super smart and super fast way. It's better to discover your tools and styles in a single location than to poke for them in every toolbox and dialog. My 2 ct. Marcus Am 05/23/2013 08:34 PM, schrieb Andrew Rist: - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org I understand people thinking it is too late to make a change but I also think Jörg has made an excellent point. I see the purpose of the side bar as allowing one to work faster by gathering many common functions. I haven't been able to think of a name I like that communicates the speed aspect. Perhaps Favorites Bar, with its allusion to a browser feature, might incline people to try the new tool. Best regards, Francis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
