Re: Google Analytics and Download Count

[Peter Kovacs]

Am 28.10.20 um 00:32 schrieb Dave Fisher:

What git migration?


Exactly. I did only switch, without taking everyone along.



Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 27, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:



Am 27.10.20 um 23:22 schrieb Dave Fisher:
Hi -

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 27, 2020, at 3:07 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:

Dave Fisher wrote:

I will be doing the initial migration as quickly as I can. I think that metrics 
needs a specific discussion.
Initially I’ll comment this out.

Do I understand well that there is no technical reason whatsoever to get rid of 
Google Analytics, and that the discussion is purely political?

Not really political in that there are now digital privacy rights in some 
jurisdictions.

Currently, it is strongly recommend by the Operations of ASF. The Board has 
created the VP, Digital Privacy. Unfortunately we are the third one since 2019. 
We can ask there.

Please elaborate on that point. I have made sure we are in line with all GDPR 
Rules I am aware. This has been always a special care.

This is fine, but in this case the logical approach would be the opposite: we 
keep Google Analytics initially, then if someone wants to start a discussion 
(which is obviously political in this case) to remove it and this reaches 
consensus, we remove Google Analytics.

That said, I surely don't want to slow down the website migration work: it is 
much, much better to have a working migration without GA (and then one can 
easily add GA back and restart this discussion) than spend a month in assessing 
whether we need GA and block the migration for this.

I’m taking it out, but it is rather trivial to put it back.

-1, If it is trivial to put them in, then it is easy to take them out later 
too. here is no need to rush. Especially when we want to try a clean migration. 
The git migration I started has been not well done. And it would be nice if you 
give some time to drive this topic. If it is easy to put it back it is easy to 
take it out later. Why the sudden activity rush?

Logs are available from Infra on a sliding 30 day window. If we activate the 
Apache Mirrors they include downloads.

Let us build first a process on top of this. Data. I will try to make some time 
for this next weekend. Please don't put any haste.

Regards,
Dave


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: Google Analytics and Download Count

[Dave Fisher]

What git migration?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 27, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:
> 
> 
>> Am 27.10.20 um 23:22 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>> Hi -
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Oct 27, 2020, at 3:07 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dave Fisher wrote:
 I will be doing the initial migration as quickly as I can. I think that 
 metrics needs a specific discussion.
 Initially I’ll comment this out.
>>> Do I understand well that there is no technical reason whatsoever to get 
>>> rid of Google Analytics, and that the discussion is purely political?
>> Not really political in that there are now digital privacy rights in some 
>> jurisdictions.
>> 
>> Currently, it is strongly recommend by the Operations of ASF. The Board has 
>> created the VP, Digital Privacy. Unfortunately we are the third one since 
>> 2019. We can ask there.
> Please elaborate on that point. I have made sure we are in line with all GDPR 
> Rules I am aware. This has been always a special care.
>>> This is fine, but in this case the logical approach would be the opposite: 
>>> we keep Google Analytics initially, then if someone wants to start a 
>>> discussion (which is obviously political in this case) to remove it and 
>>> this reaches consensus, we remove Google Analytics.
>>> 
>>> That said, I surely don't want to slow down the website migration work: it 
>>> is much, much better to have a working migration without GA (and then one 
>>> can easily add GA back and restart this discussion) than spend a month in 
>>> assessing whether we need GA and block the migration for this.
>> I’m taking it out, but it is rather trivial to put it back.
> -1, If it is trivial to put them in, then it is easy to take them out later 
> too. here is no need to rush. Especially when we want to try a clean 
> migration. The git migration I started has been not well done. And it would 
> be nice if you give some time to drive this topic. If it is easy to put it 
> back it is easy to take it out later. Why the sudden activity rush?
>> 
>> Logs are available from Infra on a sliding 30 day window. If we activate the 
>> Apache Mirrors they include downloads.
> Let us build first a process on top of this. Data. I will try to make some 
> time for this next weekend. Please don't put any haste.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>>> Regards,
>>>  Andrea.
>>> 
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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>>> 
>> 
>> -
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> 
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Re: Google Analytics and Download Count

[Peter Kovacs]

Am 27.10.20 um 23:22 schrieb Dave Fisher:

Hi -

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 27, 2020, at 3:07 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:

Dave Fisher wrote:

I will be doing the initial migration as quickly as I can. I think that metrics 
needs a specific discussion.
Initially I’ll comment this out.

Do I understand well that there is no technical reason whatsoever to get rid of 
Google Analytics, and that the discussion is purely political?

Not really political in that there are now digital privacy rights in some 
jurisdictions.

Currently, it is strongly recommend by the Operations of ASF. The Board has 
created the VP, Digital Privacy. Unfortunately we are the third one since 2019. 
We can ask there.
Please elaborate on that point. I have made sure we are in line with all 
GDPR Rules I am aware. This has been always a special care.

This is fine, but in this case the logical approach would be the opposite: we 
keep Google Analytics initially, then if someone wants to start a discussion 
(which is obviously political in this case) to remove it and this reaches 
consensus, we remove Google Analytics.

That said, I surely don't want to slow down the website migration work: it is 
much, much better to have a working migration without GA (and then one can 
easily add GA back and restart this discussion) than spend a month in assessing 
whether we need GA and block the migration for this.

I’m taking it out, but it is rather trivial to put it back.
-1, If it is trivial to put them in, then it is easy to take them out 
later too. here is no need to rush. Especially when we want to try a 
clean migration. The git migration I started has been not well done. And 
it would be nice if you give some time to drive this topic. If it is 
easy to put it back it is easy to take it out later. Why the sudden 
activity rush?


Logs are available from Infra on a sliding 30 day window. If we activate the 
Apache Mirrors they include downloads.
Let us build first a process on top of this. Data. I will try to make 
some time for this next weekend. Please don't put any haste.


Regards,
Dave


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: Google Analytics and Download Count

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 27, 2020, at 3:07 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
> Dave Fisher wrote:
>> I will be doing the initial migration as quickly as I can. I think that 
>> metrics needs a specific discussion.
>> Initially I’ll comment this out.
> 
> Do I understand well that there is no technical reason whatsoever to get rid 
> of Google Analytics, and that the discussion is purely political?

Not really political in that there are now digital privacy rights in some 
jurisdictions.

Currently, it is strongly recommend by the Operations of ASF. The Board has 
created the VP, Digital Privacy. Unfortunately we are the third one since 2019. 
We can ask there.

> 
> This is fine, but in this case the logical approach would be the opposite: we 
> keep Google Analytics initially, then if someone wants to start a discussion 
> (which is obviously political in this case) to remove it and this reaches 
> consensus, we remove Google Analytics.
> 
> That said, I surely don't want to slow down the website migration work: it is 
> much, much better to have a working migration without GA (and then one can 
> easily add GA back and restart this discussion) than spend a month in 
> assessing whether we need GA and block the migration for this.

I’m taking it out, but it is rather trivial to put it back.

Logs are available from Infra on a sliding 30 day window. If we activate the 
Apache Mirrors they include downloads.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Regards,
>  Andrea.
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 


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Re: Google Analytics and Download Count

[Andrea Pescetti]

Dave Fisher wrote:

I will be doing the initial migration as quickly as I can. I think that metrics 
needs a specific discussion.
Initially I’ll comment this out.


Do I understand well that there is no technical reason whatsoever to get 
rid of Google Analytics, and that the discussion is purely political?


This is fine, but in this case the logical approach would be the 
opposite: we keep Google Analytics initially, then if someone wants to 
start a discussion (which is obviously political in this case) to remove 
it and this reaches consensus, we remove Google Analytics.


That said, I surely don't want to slow down the website migration work: 
it is much, much better to have a working migration without GA (and then 
one can easily add GA back and restart this discussion) than spend a 
month in assessing whether we need GA and block the migration for this.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: Google Analytics and Download Count

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Top post.

Infra updates the last month of statistics on our websites on a daily basis 
here: https://uls.apache.org/exports/ 

If we use the download scripts and move to the mirror system then we get 
counts. See the openoffice.apache.org  
statistics.

Regards,
Dave

> On Oct 21, 2020, at 1:51 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
> On 20/10/2020 Matthias Seidel wrote:
>> It seems that I am the only one interested in the data Google Analytics
>> provides.
> 
> I'm interested in keeping Google Analytics too.
> 
> We have years of historic data there and they are useful right now, since 
> we'll want to ensure that the top 30 pages are still perfectly working if we 
> change the web infrastructure. Also, Google Analytics data will help if we 
> ever decide to restructure the site (dropping the majority of pages and 
> keeping only pages that receive traffic). And if we interrupt data collection 
> now there is no way back.
> 
> AWStats is not a feature-complete replacement by any means and it also places 
> additional requirements on the server. I understand that it is better from a 
> philosophical/ideological perspective (open source, self hosted). We can try 
> and add it - we can have both AWStats and Google Analytics working at the 
> same time and then judge which one is better after some months.
> 
> Google Analytics is an industry standard; if we configure it in a way that 
> honors do-not-track requirements and does not store irrelevant data about 
> users I believe it is acceptable. We've already applied a reasonable 
> trade-off in the past to ensure Google Analytics does not become too invasive.
> 
> Regards,
>  Andrea.
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 

Re: Google Analytics and Download Count

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 21, 2020, at 5:45 PM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:
> 
> 
>> Am 21.10.20 um 22:51 schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
>>> On 20/10/2020 Matthias Seidel wrote:
>>> It seems that I am the only one interested in the data Google Analytics
>>> provides.
>> 
>> I'm interested in keeping Google Analytics too.
> If you provide a google address to me or Matthias we can add you to the 
> analytics.
>> 
>> We have years of historic data there and they are useful right now, since 
>> we'll want to ensure that the top 30 pages are still perfectly working if we 
>> change the web infrastructure. Also, Google Analytics data will help if we 
>> ever decide to restructure the site (dropping the majority of pages and 
>> keeping only pages that receive traffic). And if we interrupt data 
>> collection now there is no way back.
> We have dropped the time the data is kept to a minimum. I do not see one 
> reason we need a long standing history. And the minimum is at 1 year I think. 
> For me that is sufficient.

There are a plethora of historical information. I’m planning to preserve as 
much as we can/want.

>> 
>> AWStats is not a feature-complete replacement by any means and it also 
>> places additional requirements on the server. I understand that it is better 
>> from a philosophical/ideological perspective (open source, self hosted). We 
>> can try and add it - we can have both AWStats and Google Analytics working 
>> at the same time and then judge which one is better after some months.
> +1, my expectation is that we can live with the loss.

I will be doing the initial migration as quickly as I can. I think that metrics 
needs a specific discussion.

Initially I’ll comment this out.

>> 
>> Google Analytics is an industry standard; if we configure it in a way that 
>> honors do-not-track requirements and does not store irrelevant data about 
>> users I believe it is acceptable. We've already applied a reasonable 
>> trade-off in the past to ensure Google Analytics does not become too 
>> invasive.
> I am careful because on the members or board list it cause a lot of uproar. 
> And I do not have much interest in getting some general shit storm, because 
> people have no clue what they talking about.

Privacy concerns in certain jurisdictions is the foundation issue.

We can certainly harvest web logs with Infrastructure help.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> 
> All the best
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
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Re: Google Analytics and Download Count

[Peter Kovacs]

Am 21.10.20 um 22:51 schrieb Andrea Pescetti:

On 20/10/2020 Matthias Seidel wrote:

It seems that I am the only one interested in the data Google Analytics
provides.


I'm interested in keeping Google Analytics too.
If you provide a google address to me or Matthias we can add you to the 
analytics.


We have years of historic data there and they are useful right now, 
since we'll want to ensure that the top 30 pages are still perfectly 
working if we change the web infrastructure. Also, Google Analytics 
data will help if we ever decide to restructure the site (dropping the 
majority of pages and keeping only pages that receive traffic). And if 
we interrupt data collection now there is no way back.
We have dropped the time the data is kept to a minimum. I do not see one 
reason we need a long standing history. And the minimum is at 1 year I 
think. For me that is sufficient.


AWStats is not a feature-complete replacement by any means and it also 
places additional requirements on the server. I understand that it is 
better from a philosophical/ideological perspective (open source, self 
hosted). We can try and add it - we can have both AWStats and Google 
Analytics working at the same time and then judge which one is better 
after some months.

+1, my expectation is that we can live with the loss.


Google Analytics is an industry standard; if we configure it in a way 
that honors do-not-track requirements and does not store irrelevant 
data about users I believe it is acceptable. We've already applied a 
reasonable trade-off in the past to ensure Google Analytics does not 
become too invasive.
I am careful because on the members or board list it cause a lot of 
uproar. And I do not have much interest in getting some general shit 
storm, because people have no clue what they talking about.



All the best

Peter


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Re: Google Analytics and Download Count

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 20/10/2020 Matthias Seidel wrote:

It seems that I am the only one interested in the data Google Analytics
provides.


I'm interested in keeping Google Analytics too.

We have years of historic data there and they are useful right now, 
since we'll want to ensure that the top 30 pages are still perfectly 
working if we change the web infrastructure. Also, Google Analytics data 
will help if we ever decide to restructure the site (dropping the 
majority of pages and keeping only pages that receive traffic). And if 
we interrupt data collection now there is no way back.


AWStats is not a feature-complete replacement by any means and it also 
places additional requirements on the server. I understand that it is 
better from a philosophical/ideological perspective (open source, self 
hosted). We can try and add it - we can have both AWStats and Google 
Analytics working at the same time and then judge which one is better 
after some months.


Google Analytics is an industry standard; if we configure it in a way 
that honors do-not-track requirements and does not store irrelevant data 
about users I believe it is acceptable. We've already applied a 
reasonable trade-off in the past to ensure Google Analytics does not 
become too invasive.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: Google Analytics and Download Count

[Peter Kovacs]

Am 19.10.20 um 23:48 schrieb Marcus:

Am 19.10.20 um 23:15 schrieb Dave Fisher:

On Oct 19, 2020, at 2:06 PM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:

I am not sure what you mean.


I am for eliminating all both google analytics and entourage js from 
our pages as we move.


when we don't use the statistcs data and therefore don't need this, 
then - for sure - let's get rid of it.


I am against eliminating the Statistics without replacement. I think 
that we can replace google Analytics.


However I would like to be involved in a migration to another system. I 
am sure Matthias wants to be involved to.


Am 19.10.20 um 23:15 schrieb Dave Fisher:


We can make a special web request and get a filtered apache access log from 
Infra.

We could maybe feed AWStat with it.

https://awstats.sourceforge.io/

I would like to try the software out and if we are satisfied with it we 
can remove the analytics.


Would that be fine for everyone?


If it is about using the data I can make a community Report on our 
Statistics. Maybe Matthias could add his update staistics.


And then we could release it on our blog page?


All the Best

Peter


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Re: Google Analytics and Download Count

[Matthias Seidel]

Hi Dave,

Am 19.10.20 um 20:42 schrieb Dave Fisher:
> Hi -
>
> Every page on www.openoffice.org uses google analytics plus a file called 
> entourage.js.
>
> Entourage purports to push download information into google-analytics.
>
> http://techoctave.com/c7/posts/58-entourage-js-automatic-download-tracking-for-asynchronous-google-analytics
>
> No longer is valid.
>
> I found it here - https://github.com/techoctave/entourage
>
> We update the download count on a weekly basis can someone explain the source 
> for the data.

It is a Python script (get-aoo-stats.py) getting the download number
from SourceForge. You can find it here:

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/devtools/aoo-stats/

Regards,

   Matthias

>
> Thanks,
> Dave
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>



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Re: Google Analytics and Download Count

[Matthias Seidel]

Hi all,

Am 19.10.20 um 23:48 schrieb Marcus:
> Am 19.10.20 um 23:15 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>>> On Oct 19, 2020, at 2:06 PM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:
>>>
>>> I am not sure what you mean.
>>
>> I am for eliminating all both google analytics and entourage js from
>> our pages as we move.
>
> when we don't use the statistcs data and therefore don't need this,
> then - for sure - let's get rid of it.

It seems that I am the only one interested in the data Google Analytics
provides.

However, we want to make a "Release Party" for 4.1.8 and I plan to give
a live demonstration of monitoring the downloads (via update) while
publishing the feeds for all OOo3 versions...

And you will be surprised how many people are still updating from these
old versions. ;-)

Regards,

   Matthias

>
> Marcus
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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>



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Re: Google Analytics and Download Count

[Marcus]

Am 19.10.20 um 23:15 schrieb Dave Fisher:

On Oct 19, 2020, at 2:06 PM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:

I am not sure what you mean.


I am for eliminating all both google analytics and entourage js from our pages 
as we move.


when we don't use the statistcs data and therefore don't need this, then 
- for sure - let's get rid of it.


Marcus


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Re: Google Analytics and Download Count

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

> On Oct 19, 2020, at 2:06 PM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:
> 
> I am not sure what you mean.

I am for eliminating all both google analytics and entourage js from our pages 
as we move.

> 
> Am 19.10.20 um 22:14 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>> OK. It would be good to see if we have similar statistics in google 
>> analytics.
> 
> I do not see any download figures in Google Analytics. Long story short.
> 
> To my interpretation most users (99%) do not use our download page.
> 
> How can a Google Script get the numbers that comparable to the SF.net 
> download numbers if the web site is not used?
> 
> Which are (to my knowledge) calculated from their logs.
> 
>> 
>> Two reasons.
> 
> What is with YAGNI?
> 
> Is now downloading from Infra a thing or still a fallback?
>> (1) What if we activate an alternative or replacement mirror system. I’ve 
>> asked Infra and it’s not impossible ask mirror operators. What’s needed is 
>> partially implemented.
>> 
>> (2) Alternatively if we are going to turn this off then we could find 
>> another way to count.
> 
> If we start fixing stuff around google analytics, do we really need to use 
> Google? What about OpenSource solution, like Open-Web-Analytics or AWStats?

We can make a special web request and get a filtered apache access log from 
Infra.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> (Others like Countly, Plausible and Motomo are services that cost money. And 
> they do not come cheap (for numbers we do not use)
> 
> This will not solve our number crunching. But we could load the data from 
> SF.net and add it to other / our sources.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Google Analytics and Download Count

[Peter Kovacs]

I am not sure what you mean.

Am 19.10.20 um 22:14 schrieb Dave Fisher:

OK. It would be good to see if we have similar statistics in google analytics.


I do not see any download figures in Google Analytics. Long story short.

To my interpretation most users (99%) do not use our download page.

How can a Google Script get the numbers that comparable to the SF.net 
download numbers if the web site is not used?


Which are (to my knowledge) calculated from their logs.



Two reasons.


What is with YAGNI?

Is now downloading from Infra a thing or still a fallback?

(1) What if we activate an alternative or replacement mirror system. I’ve asked 
Infra and it’s not impossible ask mirror operators. What’s needed is partially 
implemented.

(2) Alternatively if we are going to turn this off then we could find another 
way to count.


If we start fixing stuff around google analytics, do we really need to 
use Google? What about OpenSource solution, like Open-Web-Analytics or 
AWStats?


(Others like Countly, Plausible and Motomo are services that cost money. 
And they do not come cheap (for numbers we do not use)


This will not solve our number crunching. But we could load the data 
from SF.net and add it to other / our sources.




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Re: Google Analytics and Download Count

[Dave Fisher]

OK. It would be good to see if we have similar statistics in google analytics.

Two reasons.

(1) What if we activate an alternative or replacement mirror system. I’ve asked 
Infra and it’s not impossible ask mirror operators. What’s needed is partially 
implemented.

(2) Alternatively if we are going to turn this off then we could find another 
way to count.

Regards,
Dave

> On Oct 19, 2020, at 1:10 PM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:
> 
> Afaik We use the statistics from SF.Net not from Google.
> 
> 
> 
> Am 19. Oktober 2020 20:42:29 MESZ schrieb Dave Fisher :
>> Hi -
>> 
>> Every page on www.openoffice.org uses google analytics plus a file
>> called entourage.js.
>> 
>> Entourage purports to push download information into google-analytics.
>> 
>> http://techoctave.com/c7/posts/58-entourage-js-automatic-download-tracking-for-asynchronous-google-analytics
>> 
>> No longer is valid.
>> 
>> I found it here - https://github.com/techoctave/entourage
>> 
>> We update the download count on a weekly basis can someone explain the
>> source for the data.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Dave
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org


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Re: Google Analytics and Download Count

[Peter Kovacs]

Afaik We use the statistics from SF.Net not from Google.



Am 19. Oktober 2020 20:42:29 MESZ schrieb Dave Fisher :
>Hi -
>
>Every page on www.openoffice.org uses google analytics plus a file
>called entourage.js.
>
>Entourage purports to push download information into google-analytics.
>
>http://techoctave.com/c7/posts/58-entourage-js-automatic-download-tracking-for-asynchronous-google-analytics
>
>No longer is valid.
>
>I found it here - https://github.com/techoctave/entourage
>
>We update the download count on a weekly basis can someone explain the
>source for the data.
>
>Thanks,
>Dave
>-
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Google Analytics and Download Count

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Every page on www.openoffice.org uses google analytics plus a file called 
entourage.js.

Entourage purports to push download information into google-analytics.

http://techoctave.com/c7/posts/58-entourage-js-automatic-download-tracking-for-asynchronous-google-analytics

No longer is valid.

I found it here - https://github.com/techoctave/entourage

We update the download count on a weekly basis can someone explain the source 
for the data.

Thanks,
Dave
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org