Re: Openoffice is being sold on ebay
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Donald Whytock wrote: > On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Regina Henschel > wrote: > >> But I'm concerned about the way the product is shown. For example in >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Office-Word-Excel- >> Compatible-Open-Office-Professional-Edition-2013/281137965681 >> Either it is not our OpenOffice, then it may not named so, or it is our >> OpenOffice, then "Apache" and trade mark is missing. >> >> Or this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Open-Office-Microsoft-Word-Excel- >> 2007-2010-Compatible-Pro-Professional-Software/150935048983 >> From content is is likely an OpenOffice.org 3.4.1, but the box says "MT >> Software Solutions OpenOffice Suite". It gives the impression, that the >> application is developed by MT Software Solution. >> >> > I seem to recall from the handoff from Oracle that "OpenOffice" isn't an > Apache trademark...that we have "Apache OpenOffice" now, and that > "OpenOffice.org" came with the license, but we didn't receive "OpenOffice" > because it was being used in too many different countries by too many > different people. > > So as long as they're not actually using Apache trademarks (including the > gulls, the feather, etc.) I suppose they can call it whatever they want, > even if it's just a "hello world" VBscript inside. > No one can use a a name that confusingly similar to our trademarks. Confusion is not limited to literal identity with our trademark. For example, "Apache Open Office" (with a space) or "OpenOffice" (without the Apache part), if used in the context of office productivity software, could be a problem. So our claiming of "Apache OpenOffice" essentially subsumes "OpenOffice" and similar variants. As far as eBay goes, if they are selling Apache OpenOffice and calling it OpenOffice then this might be covered under the doctrine of "nominative use" [1]. I think it is useful to consider these cases: 1) Someone sells OpenOffice and calls it OpenOffice. This is probably covered by nominative use 2) Someone sells something other than OpenOffice but calls it OpenOffice. This could be trademark abuse 3) Someone sells OpenOffice but calls it something else. For example, NeoOffice, BrOffice, Symphony, LibreOffice, etc., did this. Note that there are other possible issues, unrelated to trademarks. For example, if someone takes OpenOffice and loads it up with malware and offers it for download, then this might run afoul of consumer protection laws. And if someone takes OpenOffice and claims that it is Microsoft Office then this may violate Microsoft's trademarks and also constitute consumer fraud. I've seen both of these kinds of things happen. They are very annoying, but if they are not misuses of our trademarks then there is little we can do on our side. One solution here is to develop a redistributors "code of conduct" and feature on our website such distributors that agree to these terms. The idea would be to change the dynamic a bit by actively encouraging legitimate distributors. This has been discussed on the list before but never was brought to completion. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_use Regards, -Rob > Don <- not a lawyer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Openoffice is being sold on ebay
> -Original Message- > From: Donald Whytock [mailto:dwhyt...@gmail.com] > Our routine answer to this is that, no, AOO > downloaded from > AOO sites doesn't install any of those things; if it did, > they didn't get > it from us. And *this* response is OK, *because* there is nothing of guarantee, that's the point. I can not imagine that there is no difference in the U.S. between the statements made to me: "I ??promise" and "I guarantee". Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Openoffice is being sold on ebay
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Regina Henschel wrote: > But I'm concerned about the way the product is shown. For example in > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Office-Word-Excel- > Compatible-Open-Office-Professional-Edition-2013/281137965681 > Either it is not our OpenOffice, then it may not named so, or it is our > OpenOffice, then "Apache" and trade mark is missing. > > Or this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Open-Office-Microsoft-Word-Excel- > 2007-2010-Compatible-Pro-Professional-Software/150935048983 > From content is is likely an OpenOffice.org 3.4.1, but the box says "MT > Software Solutions OpenOffice Suite". It gives the impression, that the > application is developed by MT Software Solution. > > I seem to recall from the handoff from Oracle that "OpenOffice" isn't an Apache trademark...that we have "Apache OpenOffice" now, and that "OpenOffice.org" came with the license, but we didn't receive "OpenOffice" because it was being used in too many different countries by too many different people. So as long as they're not actually using Apache trademarks (including the gulls, the feather, etc.) I suppose they can call it whatever they want, even if it's just a "hello world" VBscript inside. Don <- not a lawyer
Re: Openoffice is being sold on ebay
Hi, Jorg Schmidt schrieb: Hello, -Original Message- From: luis e [mailto:didakti...@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 1:35 AM To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Openoffice is being sold on ebay To whom it may concern: I found out that there are sellers in ebay selling CDs with Openoffice. You can see some examples here: http://m.ebay.com/itm/251386841813?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1 http://m.ebay.com/itm/251388556478?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1 I will try to contact ebay to let them know about this issue. And what problem do you see? It's very welcome if OpenOffice is sold, because thereby it becomes widespread. See the arguments in: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html.en But I'm concerned about the way the product is shown. For example in http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Office-Word-Excel-Compatible-Open-Office-Professional-Edition-2013/281137965681 Either it is not our OpenOffice, then it may not named so, or it is our OpenOffice, then "Apache" and trade mark is missing. Or this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Open-Office-Microsoft-Word-Excel-2007-2010-Compatible-Pro-Professional-Software/150935048983 From content is is likely an OpenOffice.org 3.4.1, but the box says "MT Software Solutions OpenOffice Suite". It gives the impression, that the application is developed by MT Software Solution. Kind regards Regina - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Openoffice is being sold on ebay
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Jörg Schmidt wrote: > > We don't warrant AOO in any case...we provide it as-is. > > However, we can > > state that binaries people download from AOO sites are built from AOO > > source and don't contain anything else; we can't guarantee > > that for copies > > from any place else. > > Possible. But why should we do that _explicitly_? > > If, this point really matter then he should be in the license, it is, > however, > only marginally important, we should not especially mention it because to > "guarantee" also includes a legal aspect. > > A legally effective promise we can not keep, is rather bad for our > reputation, so > it is better to promise less and deliver more than to promise more and > keep less. > > No, no misunderstanding, I'm sure the binaries coming from the Apache > pages, 99.9% > sure are (likely to 99.9 ...) but not 100%, and why should we do so as > if our > server are invulnerable? > > We make that statement on kind of a regular basis. There are people who email the list, either directly or through the web form, saying, "AOO installed a toolbar!", "AOO installed bloatware!", "AOO installed a virus!", etc. Our routine answer to this is that, no, AOO downloaded from AOO sites doesn't install any of those things; if it did, they didn't get it from us. Don
Re: Openoffice is being sold on ebay
> > > From: dwhyt...@gmail.com [mailto:dwhyt...@gmail.com] On > > > > > Please note that Apache does not endorse or guarantee any > > > copy of AOO not > > > downloaded from an AOO site. > > > > Is not it better to say that in general there is no guarantee it, no > > matter where > > the download comes from? (Or do I misunderstand your statement?) > > > > See point 7 in: > > http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html > > > > > We don't warrant AOO in any case...we provide it as-is. > However, we can > state that binaries people download from AOO sites are built from AOO > source and don't contain anything else; we can't guarantee > that for copies > from any place else. Possible. But why should we do that _explicitly_? If, this point really matter then he should be in the license, it is, however, only marginally important, we should not especially mention it because to "guarantee" also includes a legal aspect. A legally effective promise we can not keep, is rather bad for our reputation, so it is better to promise less and deliver more than to promise more and keep less. No, no misunderstanding, I'm sure the binaries coming from the Apache pages, 99.9% sure are (likely to 99.9 ...) but not 100%, and why should we do so as if our server are invulnerable? Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Openoffice is being sold on ebay
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Jörg Schmidt wrote: > Hello, > > > From: dwhyt...@gmail.com [mailto:dwhyt...@gmail.com] On > > > Please note that Apache does not endorse or guarantee any > > copy of AOO not > > downloaded from an AOO site. > > Is not it better to say that in general there is no guarantee it, no > matter where > the download comes from? (Or do I misunderstand your statement?) > > See point 7 in: > http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html > > We don't warrant AOO in any case...we provide it as-is. However, we can state that binaries people download from AOO sites are built from AOO source and don't contain anything else; we can't guarantee that for copies from any place else. Don
Re: Openoffice is being sold on ebay
On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 9:34 PM, luis e wrote: > I will try to contact ebay to let them know about this issue. > > Regards > And this is wrong because? Even if it were a GPL license piece of software (it itsn't) it's perfectly fine to sell open source software. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell
Re: Openoffice is being sold on ebay
Hello, > From: dwhyt...@gmail.com [mailto:dwhyt...@gmail.com] On > Please note that Apache does not endorse or guarantee any > copy of AOO not > downloaded from an AOO site. Is not it better to say that in general there is no guarantee it, no matter where the download comes from? (Or do I misunderstand your statement?) See point 7 in: http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Openoffice is being sold on ebay
Hi Luis... Thank you for your concern. However, since Apache OpenOffice is free to distribute and re-distribute, it's considered legal to sell it on Ebay, inasmuch as it's a sale of a CD/DVD that happens to have AOO on it. Please note that Apache does not endorse or guarantee any copy of AOO not downloaded from an AOO site. Don On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 2:32 AM, Jorg Schmidt wrote: > Hello, > > > -Original Message- > > From: luis e [mailto:didakti...@hotmail.com] > > Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 1:35 AM > > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > > Subject: Openoffice is being sold on ebay > > > > To whom it may concern: > > > > I found out that there are sellers in ebay selling CDs with > > Openoffice. You can see some examples here: > > > > http://m.ebay.com/itm/251386841813?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1 > > > > http://m.ebay.com/itm/251388556478?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1 > > > > I will try to contact ebay to let them know about this issue. > > > And what problem do you see? > > It's very welcome if OpenOffice is sold, because thereby it becomes > widespread. > > See the arguments in: > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html.en > > > Greetings, > Jorg > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > >
Re: Openoffice is being sold on ebay
Hello, > -Original Message- > From: luis e [mailto:didakti...@hotmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 1:35 AM > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Openoffice is being sold on ebay > > To whom it may concern: > > I found out that there are sellers in ebay selling CDs with > Openoffice. You can see some examples here: > > http://m.ebay.com/itm/251386841813?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1 > > http://m.ebay.com/itm/251388556478?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1 > > I will try to contact ebay to let them know about this issue. And what problem do you see? It's very welcome if OpenOffice is sold, because thereby it becomes widespread. See the arguments in: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html.en Greetings, Jorg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Openoffice is being sold on ebay
I thought it was fine for someone to sell a disc with OO installed. I think that the seller is overstating the compatibility, however. On 11/27/2013 07:34 PM, luis e wrote: To whom it may concern: I found out that there are sellers in ebay selling CDs with Openoffice. You can see some examples here: http://m.ebay.com/itm/251386841813?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1 http://m.ebay.com/itm/251388556478?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1 I will try to contact ebay to let them know about this issue. Regards luis e -- Andrew Pitonyak My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Openoffice is being sold on ebay
To whom it may concern: I found out that there are sellers in ebay selling CDs with Openoffice. You can see some examples here: http://m.ebay.com/itm/251386841813?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1 http://m.ebay.com/itm/251388556478?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1 I will try to contact ebay to let them know about this issue. Regards luis e
Openoffice is being sold on ebay
To whom it may concern: I found out that there are sellers in ebay selling CDs with Openoffice. You can see some examples here: http://m.ebay.com/itm/251386841813?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1 http://m.ebay.com/itm/251388556478?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1 I will try to contact ebay to let them know about this issue. Regards luis e
