Re: [DISCUSS] #1 New PMC Chair (was RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice)
On 01/26/2015 12:55 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > I just saw a very crisp statement that applies here too: > > Apache Chairs are not Executives. > > The Incubator Project is in the process of taking nominations and > discussing replacement of their current Chair, which their practice > is to have on a 12-month cycle. You can see the quote in context at > > <http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201501.mbox/%3CCAAS6%3D7hJBPCCYxJWrfgAHApf%2ByFnbUR2vNVs-wO6J21Lmh-5Mw%40mail.gmail.com%3E> > (after you paste the URL back together [;<). great reference! Thanks. > > > -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti > [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 01:22 To: > dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] #1 New PMC Chair > (was RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice) > > On 26/01/2015 RA Stehmann wrote: >> Apart from his official duties the PMC chair is seen as the >> representative of AOO by the public (Whether we like it or not.) > > This happens. More rarely than one would think, but still I confirm > that I very occasionally received requests from the press. I simply > routed them to the PMC. > >> As said "critical" points are the relations to LibreOffice and to >> companies, which are able to contribute code or anything else to >> our project. > > These are tasks for the PMC. The Chair cannot impose his point of > view on these matters. The PMC can surely agree to delegate these > tasks to a person (who may or may not be the Chair) and it is the PMC > vision, not the Chair's vision, that matters here. This is why I > consider this to come later than the election of a new Chair. > > Regards, Andrea. > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > -- - MzK "An old horse for a long, hard road, a young pony for a quick ride." -- Texas Bix Bender - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: [DISCUSS] #1 New PMC Chair (was RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice)
I just saw a very crisp statement that applies here too: Apache Chairs are not Executives. The Incubator Project is in the process of taking nominations and discussing replacement of their current Chair, which their practice is to have on a 12-month cycle. You can see the quote in context at <http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201501.mbox/%3CCAAS6%3D7hJBPCCYxJWrfgAHApf%2ByFnbUR2vNVs-wO6J21Lmh-5Mw%40mail.gmail.com%3E> (after you paste the URL back together [;<). -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 01:22 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] #1 New PMC Chair (was RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice) On 26/01/2015 RA Stehmann wrote: > Apart from his official duties the PMC chair is seen as the > representative of AOO by the public (Whether we like it or not.) This happens. More rarely than one would think, but still I confirm that I very occasionally received requests from the press. I simply routed them to the PMC. > As said "critical" points are the relations to LibreOffice and to > companies, which are able to contribute code or anything else to our > project. These are tasks for the PMC. The Chair cannot impose his point of view on these matters. The PMC can surely agree to delegate these tasks to a person (who may or may not be the Chair) and it is the PMC vision, not the Chair's vision, that matters here. This is why I consider this to come later than the election of a new Chair. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] #1 New PMC Chair (was RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice)
On Jan 26, 2015, at 1:21 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: > On 26/01/2015 RA Stehmann wrote: >> Apart from his official duties the PMC chair is seen as the >> representative of AOO by the public (Whether we like it or not.) > > This happens. More rarely than one would think, but still I confirm that I > very occasionally received requests from the press. I simply routed them to > the PMC. > >> As said "critical" points are the relations to LibreOffice and to >> companies, which are able to contribute code or anything else to our >> project. > > These are tasks for the PMC. The Chair cannot impose his point of view on > these matters. The PMC can surely agree to delegate these tasks to a person > (who may or may not be the Chair) and it is the PMC vision, not the Chair's > vision, that matters here. This is why I consider this to come later than the > election of a new Chair. After and the question is for the WHOLE community not just the PMC. People don't have to be on the PMC to influence the direction of the project with their energy. Regards, Dave > > Regards, > Andrea. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
On 24/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote: 1) Election a new PMC Chair (the Chair has one, and clearly defined, role: being the liaison officer between the OpenOffice PMC and Apache; he/she can do much more, and I have been doing much more and I'll still continue with the rest; but this is not part of the Chair duties). Seeing that things are moving very fast now, it's clear to assume that we are doing #1 first. Good. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] #1 New PMC Chair (was RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice)
On 26/01/2015 RA Stehmann wrote: Apart from his official duties the PMC chair is seen as the representative of AOO by the public (Whether we like it or not.) This happens. More rarely than one would think, but still I confirm that I very occasionally received requests from the press. I simply routed them to the PMC. As said "critical" points are the relations to LibreOffice and to companies, which are able to contribute code or anything else to our project. These are tasks for the PMC. The Chair cannot impose his point of view on these matters. The PMC can surely agree to delegate these tasks to a person (who may or may not be the Chair) and it is the PMC vision, not the Chair's vision, that matters here. This is why I consider this to come later than the election of a new Chair. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] #1 New PMC Chair (was RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice)
On 25.01.2015 00:20, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: Apart from his official duties the PMC chair is seen as the representative of AOO by the public (Whether we like it or not.) So IMO we have to discuss what are our expectations to a PMC chair in that role. As said "critical" points are the relations to LibreOffice and to companies, which are able to contribute code or anything else to our project. Kind regards Michael signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [DISCUSS] #1 New PMC Chair (was RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice)
On 25/01/2015 Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: It seems there are two factors in presenting candidacy for Chair, anda bigger question. Even if every attempt to rationalize discussions has failed so far, I prefer that we try to focus on one thing at a time for once... We are agreeing that this is the order in which we will do things, and jumping immediately into a discussion reiterates the bad habit I'd like us to avoid this time. 1. Does the candidate appreciate and accept the responsibilities of being accountable to the Board and serving as Apache Vice President This has already been discussed at length and it must be clear. 2. What else do folks expect of a candidate? Personal expectations don't matter. We are electing a Chair as defined by the ASF. And finally, who has their hat in the ring? That is, who are nominating themselves or are at least willing to be nominated? ... [potential] candidates need to work on that with the community so we can get the job done this time. I'll try to make sure we get the job done. So I take responsibility to move forward as soon as I see that we have agreement on the schedule. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
> From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] > Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 9:26 AM > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice > > Marcus wrote: > > Am 01/24/2015 06:56 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti: > >> 4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice > as part of a > >> larger ecosystem, so what we can do in terms of > collaboration with other > >> projects that are from Apache or from outside Apache. > > For me this is no thing that can be solved short-term. > Furthermore, we > > should first solve the internal things to be able/ready to > think about > > external affairs. > > I'll clarify it once again. My proposal means exactly that > people do not > bring up these issues while we discuss the previous ones in > the list, to > avoid long discussions that ultimately block the project. > > > It's a partly "yes". ;-) > > My order would be #1, #2, #3, #5 (however some can/should be done in > > parallel) and when that all is done #4. > > Yes, #5 (release) would be discussed in parallel. This is not > an issue. > The issue is if this becomes a blocker. I want everybody to be clear > that if we have consensus here we won't be able to accept objections > like "Before electing a new Chair we must release OpenOffice 4.1.2". > > Taking into account the different opinions expressed so far, I'm now > seeing a certain agreement on: > 1) Election a new PMC Chair ... > 2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to > drive the project forward ... > Later) Re-alignment between PMC and active community ... > Later) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice > as part of > a larger ecosystem ... > Later) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 ... > > The "Later" items need not be done in this order. What > matters is that > nobody should push their completion as priorities over #1 and #2. > > Can we agree on this simplified version, so that we can take > the first > steps? OK for me Note: I'm not a PMC member (I mention this because you wrote: "I'm asking for consensus, Especially from PMC members ...") Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Yes, #1 and #2 in order. Then we'll deal with ##3-5 (whatever the ordering) -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 00:26 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice [ ... ] Taking into account the different opinions expressed so far, I'm now seeing a certain agreement on: 1) Election a new PMC Chair ... 2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to drive the project forward ... Later) Re-alignment between PMC and active community ... Later) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a larger ecosystem ... Later) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 ... The "Later" items need not be done in this order. What matters is that nobody should push their completion as priorities over #1 and #2. Can we agree on this simplified version, so that we can take the first steps? Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: [DISCUSS] #1 New PMC Chair (was RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice)
It seems there are two factors in presenting candidacy for Chair, and a bigger question. 1. Does the candidate appreciate and accept the responsibilities of being accountable to the Board and serving as Apache Vice President for OpenOffice. (The available descriptions are a bit abstract. I suspect there is some On-the-Job training. It seems to me that the key responsibility has to do with the legal umbrella that the Foundation provides and how it applies to Apache Projects, their committers, and the PMC. Then there's having a finger on the pulse of the Project and attending to its sustainability and operating within the few but specific constraints that are part of being an Apache Project.) 2. What else do folks expect of a candidate? In the last [DISCUSS] and [VOTE] there are apparently other expectations and criteria. That needs to be expressed and explained, not even so much by candidates but by the folks who seem to have strong preferences. We also need to determine whether that has anything to do with the responsibilities of the Chair and see if they should be treated separately as matters of emergent leadership and not a Chair duty. For example, topic #2 on promoting action is a PMC responsibility as Andrea reports below. And finally, who has their hat in the ring? That is, who are nominating themselves or are at least willing to be nominated? We need some way to calibrate expectations and clarifying what is appropriate to expect before we take another run at a [VOTE], and [potential] candidates need to work on that with the community so we can get the job done this time. -- Dennis E. Hamilton orc...@apache.org dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail -- in reply to -- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 15:45 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] #1 New PMC Chair (was RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice) Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: [ ... ] > 3. OTHER EXPECTATIONS > It might be unwise to inject responsibilities for the Chair > that are not the responsibilities of any and every PMC member Indeed. We elect a Chair as the officer who connects OpenOffice and Apache. But project governance in the hands of the PMC, not of the Chair, so setting directions belongs on item #2. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] #1 New PMC Chair (was RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice)
On Jan 24, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > Andrea proposes election of a new PMC Chair as the #1 short-term priority. > Here are some discussion points. > > 1. TIMING > >Once the AOO Project has selected a candidate to be the AOO PMC >Chair, a motion must be taken to the ASF Board for their election >of the proposed Chair. That ratification, or its rejection, >happens at a Board Meeting ><http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works/boardmeetings.html>. >The template motion is at > > <https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/board/templates/change-chair-resolution.txt> >(accessible by ASF Committers). > >The next meeting of the board is at 2014-02-18T18:30Z. A motion >to the board would be posted at least two days before that. An >appropriate time for balloting would be from 2014-02-09T20:00Z >to around 2014-02-15T00:00Z (midnight), for example. If that's >too soon, then in time for March. > >The March meeting is at 2014-03-18T18:30Z. > >The April meeting is at 2014-04-15T18:30Z and the quarterly >report of the AOO PMC is required in advance of that meeting. >This is presumably the first report provided by the new Chair. > > 2. OFFICIAL DUTIES OF THE CHAIR > >The Chair will be made a Member of the ASF if not one already. This is incorrect. The Board is NOT empowered to elect Members. Members elect the Board. The Membership MAY nominate and elect the Chair to be a Foundation Member, but that is up to the Members at a member's meeting. Regards, Dave >The Chair will be an Officer of the ASF, the Vice President >For OpenOffice. See ><https://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair>. > >Apart from the Chair's responsibilities with respect to the >Foundation, the Chair has the same responsibilities on the >PMC as any PMC member. ><https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#pmc>. > >(I note in the bylaws of the ASF that the terms of the Chair >and of the PMC members are stated to be one year. I don't >believe that's quite how it is being done.) > > 3. OTHER EXPECTATIONS > >A number of other expectations concerning what the Project >expects of a Chair have been presented on the AOO dev list. >It is useful to discuss what those are and what sort of >commitment is expected. > >It might be unwise to inject responsibilities for the Chair >that are not the responsibilities of any and every PMC member, >since the Chair serves the project as a volunteer as do the >PMC, committers, and contributors of all forms. > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 09:56 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice > > I see five short-term (say, something that must be either done or put > towards completion by end of February) priorities for OpenOffice as a > project. They overlap, and we, especially the PMC, need to agree on how > to order them, otherwise we risk pulling in different directions and > mutually blocking the initiatives from others. > > 1) Election a new PMC Chair (the Chair has one, and clearly defined, > role: being the liaison officer between the OpenOffice PMC and Apache; > he/she can do much more, and I have been doing much more and I'll still > continue with the rest; but this is not part of the Chair duties). > > [ ... ] > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Am 25.01.2015 um 09:26 schrieb Andrea Pescetti: > Can we agree on this simplified version, so that we can take the first > steps? > > Regards, > Andrea. > Yes we should start Kind regards -- Mechtilde Stehmann ## Apache OpenOffice.org ## Freie Office Suite für Linux, MacOSX, Windoes ## PGP encryption welcome ## Key-ID 0x141AAD7F signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Hi all, Andrea Pescetti schrieb: Taking into account the different opinions expressed so far, I'm now seeing a certain agreement on: 1) Election a new PMC Chair ... 2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to drive the project forward ... Later) Re-alignment between PMC and active community ... Later) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a larger ecosystem ... Later) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 ... The "Later" items need not be done in this order. What matters is that nobody should push their completion as priorities over #1 and #2. I agree on that order. Regina - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Am 01/25/2015 09:26 AM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti: Can we agree on this simplified version, so that we can take the first steps? To make it short: Yes. Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Sent from Android (non biding) To the #1,2,3. I expressed my thaughts earlier, and once more we cannot do nothing uf we cannot harm asf rules. Majority of people with rights to decide how project will go, are sleepy and disagree with everything. #4 have some ideas on my head , need dictionary :) #5 ok. If we still didnt have buildbots setted up. I can provide my cpu time and bandwith to provide linux packages. Mh Andrea Pescetti napísal/a: >I see five short-term (say, something that must be either done or put >towards completion by end of February) priorities for OpenOffice as a >project. They overlap, and we, especially the PMC, need to agree on how >to order them, otherwise we risk pulling in different directions and >mutually blocking the initiatives from others. > >1) Election a new PMC Chair (the Chair has one, and clearly defined, >role: being the liaison officer between the OpenOffice PMC and Apache; >he/she can do much more, and I have been doing much more and I'll still >continue with the rest; but this is not part of the Chair duties). > >2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to >drive the project forward (so an "active" approach rather than the "I >don't have time, but someone should..." approach which is not working). > >3) Re-alignment between PMC and active community (the PMC, not the >Chair, steers the project; so people who work must be in the PMC and >people in the PMC should confirm they are still interested in being there). > >4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a >larger ecosystem, so what we can do in terms of collaboration with other >projects that are from Apache or from outside Apache. > >5) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 (all of this must produce something for our >users!). This has a number of significant subtasks and preliminary tasks >(Release manager, digital signing...) but it would be pointless to >address them now. > >I'm asking for consensus, especially from PMC members, that we can carry >forward these 5 actions in the order I used above. I know you might have >different priorities, but if we manage to get these 5 items tabled we >can get rid of the "I see other priorities" blocker. Note that, if we >act responsibly and we are determined, we could start a new item (of the >5) every week, so by the end of February we can find an answer or a >roadmap for everything listed above. > >Do you agree with this scheduling? If it's a "no", please say it now >(and please give an alternative, otherwise we can't move), but if we >have a large majority of "yes" I'll move forward according to this plan. > >Regards, > Andrea. > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >
Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Marcus wrote: Am 01/24/2015 06:56 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti: 4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a larger ecosystem, so what we can do in terms of collaboration with other projects that are from Apache or from outside Apache. For me this is no thing that can be solved short-term. Furthermore, we should first solve the internal things to be able/ready to think about external affairs. I'll clarify it once again. My proposal means exactly that people do not bring up these issues while we discuss the previous ones in the list, to avoid long discussions that ultimately block the project. It's a partly "yes". ;-) My order would be #1, #2, #3, #5 (however some can/should be done in parallel) and when that all is done #4. Yes, #5 (release) would be discussed in parallel. This is not an issue. The issue is if this becomes a blocker. I want everybody to be clear that if we have consensus here we won't be able to accept objections like "Before electing a new Chair we must release OpenOffice 4.1.2". Taking into account the different opinions expressed so far, I'm now seeing a certain agreement on: 1) Election a new PMC Chair ... 2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to drive the project forward ... Later) Re-alignment between PMC and active community ... Later) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a larger ecosystem ... Later) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 ... The "Later" items need not be done in this order. What matters is that nobody should push their completion as priorities over #1 and #2. Can we agree on this simplified version, so that we can take the first steps? Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Am 01/24/2015 06:56 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti: 4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a larger ecosystem, so what we can do in terms of collaboration with other projects that are from Apache or from outside Apache. For me this is no thing that can be solved short-term. Furthermore, we should first solve the internal things to be able/ready to think about external affairs. 5) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 (all of this must produce something for our users!). This has a number of significant subtasks and preliminary tasks (Release manager, digital signing...) but it would be pointless to address them now. Looks like an easy/fast task. Actually I haven't seen any progress here since weeks. So, even this doesn't look short-term. Do you agree with this scheduling? If it's a "no", please say it now (and please give an alternative, otherwise we can't move), but if we have a large majority of "yes" I'll move forward according to this plan. It's a partly "yes". ;-) My order would be #1, #2, #3, #5 (however some can/should be done in parallel) and when that all is done #4. Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] #1 New PMC Chair (was RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice)
Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: Here are some discussion points. It's good background reading. I recommend that people do read it. But I'd like to move here without too much useless discussion. 1. TIMING The next meeting of the board is at 2014-02-18T18:30Z. A motion to the board would be posted at least two days before that. An appropriate time for balloting would be from 2014-02-09T20:00Z to around 2014-02-15T00:00Z (midnight), for example. If that's too soon, then in time for March. Too soon? No, I definitely prefer that we close it before that time. As soon as I see consensus on proceeding without constantly overlapping discussions on unrelated things, I'll propose that we move forward with #1. And the sooner we get it done the better. Discussions started on 1 January, we wrote enough. 2. OFFICIAL DUTIES OF THE CHAIR The Chair will be made a Member of the ASF if not one already. This is frequent, but not 100% correct. A Chair doesn't need to be a member, and won't necessarily become a Member. (I note in the bylaws of the ASF that the terms of the Chair and of the PMC members are stated to be one year. I don't believe that's quite how it is being done.) It's there, but it's surely different in practice. Current Board resolutions appoint a Chair "until death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification, or until a successor is appointed". 3. OTHER EXPECTATIONS It might be unwise to inject responsibilities for the Chair that are not the responsibilities of any and every PMC member Indeed. We elect a Chair as the officer who connects OpenOffice and Apache. But project governance in the hands of the PMC, not of the Chair, so setting directions belongs on item #2. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
[DISCUSS] #1 New PMC Chair (was RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice)
Andrea proposes election of a new PMC Chair as the #1 short-term priority. Here are some discussion points. 1. TIMING Once the AOO Project has selected a candidate to be the AOO PMC Chair, a motion must be taken to the ASF Board for their election of the proposed Chair. That ratification, or its rejection, happens at a Board Meeting <http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works/boardmeetings.html>. The template motion is at <https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/board/templates/change-chair-resolution.txt> (accessible by ASF Committers). The next meeting of the board is at 2014-02-18T18:30Z. A motion to the board would be posted at least two days before that. An appropriate time for balloting would be from 2014-02-09T20:00Z to around 2014-02-15T00:00Z (midnight), for example. If that's too soon, then in time for March. The March meeting is at 2014-03-18T18:30Z. The April meeting is at 2014-04-15T18:30Z and the quarterly report of the AOO PMC is required in advance of that meeting. This is presumably the first report provided by the new Chair. 2. OFFICIAL DUTIES OF THE CHAIR The Chair will be made a Member of the ASF if not one already. The Chair will be an Officer of the ASF, the Vice President For OpenOffice. See <https://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair>. Apart from the Chair's responsibilities with respect to the Foundation, the Chair has the same responsibilities on the PMC as any PMC member. <https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#pmc>. (I note in the bylaws of the ASF that the terms of the Chair and of the PMC members are stated to be one year. I don't believe that's quite how it is being done.) 3. OTHER EXPECTATIONS A number of other expectations concerning what the Project expects of a Chair have been presented on the AOO dev list. It is useful to discuss what those are and what sort of commitment is expected. It might be unwise to inject responsibilities for the Chair that are not the responsibilities of any and every PMC member, since the Chair serves the project as a volunteer as do the PMC, committers, and contributors of all forms. -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 09:56 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice I see five short-term (say, something that must be either done or put towards completion by end of February) priorities for OpenOffice as a project. They overlap, and we, especially the PMC, need to agree on how to order them, otherwise we risk pulling in different directions and mutually blocking the initiatives from others. 1) Election a new PMC Chair (the Chair has one, and clearly defined, role: being the liaison officer between the OpenOffice PMC and Apache; he/she can do much more, and I have been doing much more and I'll still continue with the rest; but this is not part of the Chair duties). [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
On Jan 24, 2015 11:30 AM, "Andrea Pescetti" wrote: > > Kay Schenk wrote: >> >> On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: >>> >>> 1) Election a new PMC Chair ... >>> >>> 2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to drive >>> the project forward ... >>> 3) Re-alignment between PMC and active community ... >>> >>> 4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a >>> larger ecosystem ... >>> 5) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 ... >>> >>> Do you agree with this scheduling? If it's a "no", please say it now (and >>> please give an alternative, otherwise we can't move), but if we have a >>> large majority of "yes" I'll move forward according to this plan. >>> >> For me, #1, #2, and #5 seem tangible and do-able in the short term, thought >> I suspect #5 will be longer than February. >> No opinion on #3. >> Until we address internal issues, does it make sense to think about #4 in >> any serious way? I'm not sure of the extent of this one, and don't see this >> as a short term goal. Maybe more information on ideas would help. > > > What I'm suggesting is exactly to avoid discussing ideas on everything at the same time to ultimately get nothing. So I am saying: before discussing any ideas for #4, let's get give priority to #1, #2 and #3. And of course one week is not enough for the release; things will have to proceed in parallel, but the toxic behavior we must avoid it that someone blocks another discussion by saying "No, we should make a release before that". > > Back to the point: do you have anything against the idea that we discuss things in this order? No. I'm good with the order. I'm fine with swapping #4 and #5 for example. But if we don't have agreement on the order of the first 3, we won't be able to move forward. > > > Regards, > Andrea. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >
RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Because of its tangible nature, I would move #5 (AOO 4.1.2to #3), sliding #3 and #4 down to #4 and #5. I think releasing AOO 4.1.2 is tangible work. I can see steps on Re-alignment with Community and External Organization moving along at the same time, and Community Re-alignment might matter for AOO 4.1.2, but I think #2 is a bigger deal. Basically, I don't see why there is linearity so much after #1 and #2, which are critical. AOO 4.1.2 and Community Re-alignment can clearly work together. External organization is a bit longer term and rather independent initially, if I understand what Andrea is looking for there. Summary: Interchange #4 and #5 as Andrea suggests, or bring #5 all the way up to #3 (assuming that there are already resources to define and complete AOO 4.1.2 among available committers). Either way, #1 and #2 are prerequisites. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 11:31 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice Kay Schenk wrote: > On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: >> 1) Election a new PMC Chair ... >> 2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to drive >> the project forward ... >> 3) Re-alignment between PMC and active community ... >> 4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a >> larger ecosystem ... >> 5) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 ... >> Do you agree with this scheduling? If it's a "no", please say it now (and >> please give an alternative, otherwise we can't move), but if we have a >> large majority of "yes" I'll move forward according to this plan. >> > For me, #1, #2, and #5 seem tangible and do-able in the short term, thought > I suspect #5 will be longer than February. > No opinion on #3. > Until we address internal issues, does it make sense to think about #4 in > any serious way? I'm not sure of the extent of this one, and don't see this > as a short term goal. Maybe more information on ideas would help. What I'm suggesting is exactly to avoid discussing ideas on everything at the same time to ultimately get nothing. So I am saying: before discussing any ideas for #4, let's get give priority to #1, #2 and #3. And of course one week is not enough for the release; things will have to proceed in parallel, but the toxic behavior we must avoid it that someone blocks another discussion by saying "No, we should make a release before that". Back to the point: do you have anything against the idea that we discuss things in this order? I'm fine with swapping #4 and #5 for example. But if we don't have agreement on the order of the first 3, we won't be able to move forward. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
+1 on the 5 points from Andrea (non-binding, [;<). Concerning ##3-4, I agree with Kay these are agreements on direction and perhaps identification of the desired state. I can see identification of initial steps, rather than static, completed activities in February. It might be useful to express what the desired state is, sort of the way the Apache Project Maturity Model identifies what one would observe when the model is honored at a steady state of a project. See <https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ApacheProjectMaturityModel>. -- in reply to -- From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 10:35 To: OOo Apache Subject: Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: [ ... ] > 1) Election a new PMC Chair [ ... ] > 2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to drive > the project forward [ ... ] > 3) Re-alignment between PMC and active community [ ... ] > 4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a > larger ecosystem [ ... ] > 5) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 (all of this must produce something for our > users!). [ ... ] > For me, #1, #2, and #5 seem tangible and do-able in the short term, thought I suspect #5 will be longer than February. No opinion on #3. Until we address internal issues, does it make sense to think about #4 in any serious way? I'm not sure of the extent of this one, and don't see this as a short term goal. Maybe more information on ideas would help. -- - MzK "An old horse for a long, hard road, a young pony for a quick ride." -- Texas Bix Bender - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Kay Schenk wrote: On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: 1) Election a new PMC Chair ... 2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to drive the project forward ... 3) Re-alignment between PMC and active community ... 4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a larger ecosystem ... 5) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 ... Do you agree with this scheduling? If it's a "no", please say it now (and please give an alternative, otherwise we can't move), but if we have a large majority of "yes" I'll move forward according to this plan. For me, #1, #2, and #5 seem tangible and do-able in the short term, thought I suspect #5 will be longer than February. No opinion on #3. Until we address internal issues, does it make sense to think about #4 in any serious way? I'm not sure of the extent of this one, and don't see this as a short term goal. Maybe more information on ideas would help. What I'm suggesting is exactly to avoid discussing ideas on everything at the same time to ultimately get nothing. So I am saying: before discussing any ideas for #4, let's get give priority to #1, #2 and #3. And of course one week is not enough for the release; things will have to proceed in parallel, but the toxic behavior we must avoid it that someone blocks another discussion by saying "No, we should make a release before that". Back to the point: do you have anything against the idea that we discuss things in this order? I'm fine with swapping #4 and #5 for example. But if we don't have agreement on the order of the first 3, we won't be able to move forward. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: > I see five short-term (say, something that must be either done or put > towards completion by end of February) priorities for OpenOffice as a > project. They overlap, and we, especially the PMC, need to agree on how to > order them, otherwise we risk pulling in different directions and mutually > blocking the initiatives from others. > > 1) Election a new PMC Chair (the Chair has one, and clearly defined, role: > being the liaison officer between the OpenOffice PMC and Apache; he/she can > do much more, and I have been doing much more and I'll still continue with > the rest; but this is not part of the Chair duties). > > 2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to drive > the project forward (so an "active" approach rather than the "I don't have > time, but someone should..." approach which is not working). > > 3) Re-alignment between PMC and active community (the PMC, not the Chair, > steers the project; so people who work must be in the PMC and people in the > PMC should confirm they are still interested in being there). > > 4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a > larger ecosystem, so what we can do in terms of collaboration with other > projects that are from Apache or from outside Apache. > > 5) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 (all of this must produce something for our > users!). This has a number of significant subtasks and preliminary tasks > (Release manager, digital signing...) but it would be pointless to address > them now. > > I'm asking for consensus, especially from PMC members, that we can carry > forward these 5 actions in the order I used above. I know you might have > different priorities, but if we manage to get these 5 items tabled we can > get rid of the "I see other priorities" blocker. Note that, if we act > responsibly and we are determined, we could start a new item (of the 5) > every week, so by the end of February we can find an answer or a roadmap > for everything listed above. > > Do you agree with this scheduling? If it's a "no", please say it now (and > please give an alternative, otherwise we can't move), but if we have a > large majority of "yes" I'll move forward according to this plan. > > Regards, > Andrea. > > > For me, #1, #2, and #5 seem tangible and do-able in the short term, thought I suspect #5 will be longer than February. No opinion on #3. Until we address internal issues, does it make sense to think about #4 in any serious way? I'm not sure of the extent of this one, and don't see this as a short term goal. Maybe more information on ideas would help. -- - MzK "An old horse for a long, hard road, a young pony for a quick ride." -- Texas Bix Bender
Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
I see five short-term (say, something that must be either done or put towards completion by end of February) priorities for OpenOffice as a project. They overlap, and we, especially the PMC, need to agree on how to order them, otherwise we risk pulling in different directions and mutually blocking the initiatives from others. 1) Election a new PMC Chair (the Chair has one, and clearly defined, role: being the liaison officer between the OpenOffice PMC and Apache; he/she can do much more, and I have been doing much more and I'll still continue with the rest; but this is not part of the Chair duties). 2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to drive the project forward (so an "active" approach rather than the "I don't have time, but someone should..." approach which is not working). 3) Re-alignment between PMC and active community (the PMC, not the Chair, steers the project; so people who work must be in the PMC and people in the PMC should confirm they are still interested in being there). 4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a larger ecosystem, so what we can do in terms of collaboration with other projects that are from Apache or from outside Apache. 5) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 (all of this must produce something for our users!). This has a number of significant subtasks and preliminary tasks (Release manager, digital signing...) but it would be pointless to address them now. I'm asking for consensus, especially from PMC members, that we can carry forward these 5 actions in the order I used above. I know you might have different priorities, but if we manage to get these 5 items tabled we can get rid of the "I see other priorities" blocker. Note that, if we act responsibly and we are determined, we could start a new item (of the 5) every week, so by the end of February we can find an answer or a roadmap for everything listed above. Do you agree with this scheduling? If it's a "no", please say it now (and please give an alternative, otherwise we can't move), but if we have a large majority of "yes" I'll move forward according to this plan. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
