Re: [OSM-dev] North America gone in geofabrik and tagwatch
Alan, Alan Mintz wrote: I just tried to look at tagwatch for North-america and got a 404, possibly because there is no north-america directory at http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/ either. What's up? We haven't been doing North America for a while now. It puts considerable strain on our processing chain and is little used (i.e. we use almost as much bandwidth uploading the stuff to the server every day as people use for downloading). Most people who have computing resources sufficient for North America can also process the whole planet so we thought we needn't bother. It is true that this sabotages tagwatch as well, we'll see what we can do to amend that. Tagwatch runs on the German OSM dev server which is also heavily used. Do you think the US community would be willing and able to run tagwatch-US somewhere on their servers? It could perhaps even be done state-by-state based on the Cloudmade extracts, or of course based on a North America extract from the planet. Bye Frederik ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] North America gone in geofabrik and tagwatch
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:49 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Alan, Alan Mintz wrote: I just tried to look at tagwatch for North-america and got a 404, possibly because there is no north-america directory at http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/ either. What's up? We haven't been doing North America for a while now. It puts considerable strain on our processing chain and is little used (i.e. we use almost as much bandwidth uploading the stuff to the server every day as people use for downloading). Most people who have computing resources sufficient for North America can also process the whole planet so we thought we needn't bother. Frederik seems happy to process European data, since there are many more people using and benefiting from this, as opposed to North American data, where there are much fewer contributors-per-node and fewer people interested in downloading what is little more than slightly rehashed versions of giant public-domain datasets (TIGER, NHD etc). Unfortunately turning off the few community tools that cover North America can only make this imbalance worse! We should be doing every last thing possible to make it easier for our North American community to digest and improve the bulk-imported data, and for the community to grow and achieve the critical mass they need - whether that's tagwatch, extracts, garmin downloads or whatever. Does anyone have a list of services (or maps etc) which don't cover North America? I know that we managed to expand keepright to cover NA in October 2009, and so I'm especially disheartened to see things sliding in the other direction. Cheers, Andy ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] North America gone in geofabrik and tagwatch
Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone have a list of services (or maps etc) which don't cover North America? All in One Garmin Map comes to mind. This map is very handy because there are Openstreetbugs and Fixme layers. Unfortunately we can not provide the processing power to produce a worldwide Version of this map. We are currently doing Europe Only. Howerver scripts and typefiles are available for download. Regards Sven -- Das ist halt der Unterschied: Unix ist ein Betriebssystem mit Tradition, die anderen sind einfach von sich aus unlogisch. (Anselm Lingnau in de.comp.os.unix.discussion) /me ist gig...@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ im WWW ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] North America gone in geofabrik and tagwatch
At 2010-07-13 00:49, Frederik Ramm wrote: Alan, Alan Mintz wrote: I just tried to look at tagwatch for North-america and got a 404, possibly because there is no north-america directory at http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/ either. What's up? We haven't been doing North America for a while now. It puts considerable strain on our processing chain and is little used (i.e. we use almost as much bandwidth uploading the stuff to the server every day as people use for downloading). Most people who have computing resources sufficient for North America can also process the whole planet so we thought we needn't bother. It is true that this sabotages tagwatch as well, we'll see what we can do to amend that. Tagwatch runs on the German OSM dev server which is also heavily used. Do you think the US community would be willing and able to run tagwatch-US somewhere on their servers? It could perhaps even be done state-by-state based on the Cloudmade extracts, or of course based on a North America extract from the planet. Hopefully, someone can throw some resource at it. I'm a little disappointed to see what could be seen as a value judgement, something I try very hard to avoid in my cartographic endeavors, but I also understand the constraints of limited resources. I do believe TagWatch is an indispensable tool for creating at least _some_ consistency in tagging. Given most of our (including myself) lack of attention to documenting things in the wiki, it's really a great resource for finding out what people are actually doing in real-world scenarios in the US. What sort of resources are required? Machine, RAM, CPU/elapsed time, disk space, size of files to up/download via network, assuming we're just looking for a place to process, not host the results? Can it be done on Windows? -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] North America gone in geofabrik and tagwatch
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 2:49 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Alan, Alan Mintz wrote: I just tried to look at tagwatch for North-america and got a 404, possibly because there is no north-america directory at http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/ either. What's up? We haven't been doing North America for a while now. It puts considerable strain on our processing chain and is little used (i.e. we use almost as much bandwidth uploading the stuff to the server every day as people use for downloading). Most people who have computing resources sufficient for North America can also process the whole planet so we thought we needn't bother. It is true that this sabotages tagwatch as well, we'll see what we can do to amend that. Tagwatch runs on the German OSM dev server which is also heavily used. Do you think the US community would be willing and able to run tagwatch-US somewhere on their servers? It could perhaps even be done state-by-state based on the Cloudmade extracts, or of course based on a North America extract from the planet. I know someone down-thread already asked this, but what are the system requirements for tagwatch? I have a few servers setup for use with OSM-US: most of the compute time is being used for tile rendering at toposm.com, but I could wedge in tagwatch too if the community promises to use it :). ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] North America gone in geofabrik and tagwatch
Alan, Alan Mintz wrote: Hopefully, someone can throw some resource at it. I'm a little disappointed to see what could be seen as a value judgement, something I try very hard to avoid in my cartographic endeavors, but I also understand the constraints of limited resources. From the excerpts perspective it is really driven by what I said - the excerpts are there to make data processing easier for people with small machines, but anyone who can process a North America extract is by definition not someone with a small machine ;) I do believe TagWatch is an indispensable tool for creating at least _some_ consistency in tagging. Given most of our (including myself) lack of attention to documenting things in the wiki, it's really a great resource for finding out what people are actually doing in real-world scenarios in the US. What sort of resources are required? Machine, RAM, CPU/elapsed time, disk space, size of files to up/download via network, assuming we're just looking for a place to process, not host the results? Can it be done on Windows? Assuming you are content to run it once a week, you would have to download the full planet file, create an extract with Osmosis, and then run the tagwatch perl script on it. The tagwatch perl script will not run on Windows and will probably require a 16 GB RAM machine to process all of North America, but I can test-run it here if you want certainty. The whole process from downloading the planet to a finished tagwatch output will probably keep the machine occcupied for something like two days, and nothing much can be run at the time. The result is a set of HTML files which can be copied to a server somewhere, that bit is the least critical. The tagwatch architecture is really shite (everone agrees including those who have built it and run it) but it's the best we have at the moment. OSMDoc, being database based, is much better, but is out of service currently, and is not exactly resource-saving either. But the OSMDoc author has promised some updates for this month. Suggestion: I could run tagwatch for USA, infrequently (say twice a month or so) on one of my machines for a while, and push the results to somewhere on the web. As soon as OSMDoc flies again, we (or more precisely you guys on the other side of the ocean) could try and find resources to run OSMDoc which will give you a much better user experience, more interactivity, and faster turnaround times. Maybe one could even enlist the help of Aol for that, since they seem to be interested in helping US mappers. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] North America gone in geofabrik and tagwatch
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Mike N. nice...@att.net wrote: Routing: http://www.openrouteservice.org/ - includes a workable pedestrian routing. But eventually routing may arrive on the main OpenStreetMap server. Note that for routing services to be added to the main osm site, we will in all likelyhood need a new server. If the intention is that is should only be used to debug the data, then a machine the size of Errol should be enough (24GB RAM, 8 cores). But my understanding is that the community wants a public service. The good thing about that is that we can then go to government and any other organization concerned with congestion and pollution (CO2 etc) and show them how people are using our server to plan their journeys. Then we can make a good case that our service is having small but measurable effect in cutting driving time and consequently congestion and pollution. When you compare that to the cost: A 40km journey can be calculated in 50ms for an approximate cost of 0.1 cent. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] North America gone in geofabrik and tagwatch
I think it's also particularly useful in the US to see how other people are mapping the (predominantly British) terminology used on the keys and values described in the wiki to local conventions. Steve Alan Mintz wrote: At 2010-07-13 00:49, Frederik Ramm wrote: Alan, Alan Mintz wrote: I just tried to look at tagwatch for North-america and got a 404, possibly because there is no north-america directory at http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/ either. What's up? We haven't been doing North America for a while now. It puts considerable strain on our processing chain and is little used (i.e. we use almost as much bandwidth uploading the stuff to the server every day as people use for downloading). Most people who have computing resources sufficient for North America can also process the whole planet so we thought we needn't bother. It is true that this sabotages tagwatch as well, we'll see what we can do to amend that. Tagwatch runs on the German OSM dev server which is also heavily used. Do you think the US community would be willing and able to run tagwatch-US somewhere on their servers? It could perhaps even be done state-by-state based on the Cloudmade extracts, or of course based on a North America extract from the planet. Hopefully, someone can throw some resource at it. I'm a little disappointed to see what could be seen as a value judgement, something I try very hard to avoid in my cartographic endeavors, but I also understand the constraints of limited resources. I do believe TagWatch is an indispensable tool for creating at least _some_ consistency in tagging. Given most of our (including myself) lack of attention to documenting things in the wiki, it's really a great resource for finding out what people are actually doing in real-world scenarios in the US. What sort of resources are required? Machine, RAM, CPU/elapsed time, disk space, size of files to up/download via network, assuming we're just looking for a place to process, not host the results? Can it be done on Windows? -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
