Re: [OSM-dev] The wiki defines the database (was: relations)

2008-11-05 Thread Sebastian Spaeth
Erik Johansson wrote: Real mappers don't document; their tags are enough. Wannabe mappers read documentation and follow templates. So how should you become a mapper if there is no documentation. There is a lack of people who are willing to write something on the wiki, not too many. there

Re: [OSM-dev] The wiki defines the database (was: relations)

2008-11-05 Thread Andy Allan
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:15 AM, Sebastian Spaeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Erik Johansson wrote: Real mappers don't document; their tags are enough. Wannabe mappers read documentation and follow templates. So how should you become a mapper if there is no documentation. There is a lack of

Re: [OSM-dev] The wiki defines the database (was: relations)

2008-11-05 Thread Sascha Silbe
On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:57:07AM +, Andy Allan wrote: [...], which triggered a virulent campaign by the wiki-types to repeatedly delete the information that I had put up, [...] Who exactly are the wiki-types you mention? IMO there shouldn't be the wiki-types and the mappers, those should

Re: [OSM-dev] The wiki defines the database (was: relations)

2008-11-05 Thread Richard Fairhurst
Andy Allan wrote: I've been hit by it a few times, and one specific case that annoys me greatly. I invented a tag by using it (OMG!!), and then even rendering it. Other people started using it. Then the wiki-types made up their own alternative tag without making any reference to the existing

Re: [OSM-dev] The wiki defines the database (was: relations)

2008-11-05 Thread OJ W
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 1:35 AM, Erik Johansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Matt Amos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there have been occasions when real mappers have documented their tags on the wiki, only to have the wiki pages overwritten by someone else's better

Re: [OSM-dev] The wiki defines the database (was: relations)

2008-11-05 Thread Andy Allan
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Sascha Silbe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:57:07AM +, Andy Allan wrote: [...], which triggered a virulent campaign by the wiki-types to repeatedly delete the information that I had put up, [...] Who exactly are the wiki-types you

Re: [OSM-dev] The wiki defines the database (was: relations)

2008-11-04 Thread Richard Fairhurst
Erik Johansson wrote: This is a really naive and contraproductive argument, nothing is black and white. You have to define what it is you are mapping, and you don't do that in the database. Yeah, but therein lies the problem. The people doing the defining are, in many cases, not the ones

Re: [OSM-dev] The wiki defines the database (was: relations)

2008-11-04 Thread Ulf Lamping
Richard Fairhurst schrieb: Erik Johansson wrote: This is a really naive and contraproductive argument, nothing is black and white. You have to define what it is you are mapping, and you don't do that in the database. Yeah, but therein lies the problem. The people doing the defining

Re: [OSM-dev] The wiki defines the database (was: relations)

2008-11-04 Thread Chris Jones
On 4 Nov 2008, at 20:56, Ulf Lamping wrote: It's simply a misconception that the voting process necessarily needs that all people involved to be experts of the topic. If the proposal is well prepared and discussed even by a very small number of people knowing what they are talking about, you

Re: [OSM-dev] The wiki defines the database (was: relations)

2008-11-04 Thread Erik Johansson
COn Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Richard Fairhurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Erik Johansson wrote: This is a really naive and contraproductive argument, nothing is black and white. You have to define what it is you are mapping, and you don't do that in the database. Yeah, but therein lies

Re: [OSM-dev] The wiki defines the database (was: relations)

2008-11-04 Thread Matt Amos
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 10:46 PM, Erik Johansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: COn Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Richard Fairhurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The people doing the defining are, in many cases, not the ones who are doing the mapping. There are plenty of people voting on things just

Re: [OSM-dev] The wiki defines the database (was: relations)

2008-11-04 Thread Ulf Lamping
Chris Jones schrieb: On 4 Nov 2008, at 20:56, Ulf Lamping wrote: It's simply a misconception that the voting process necessarily needs that all people involved to be experts of the topic. If the proposal is well prepared and discussed even by a very small number of people knowing what they

Re: [OSM-dev] The wiki defines the database (was: relations)

2008-11-04 Thread Erik Johansson
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:27 AM, Ulf Lamping [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any proposed features that see significant real world usage make there way onto the map_features page. Well, I've recently added some often used tags indicated by tagwatch to the Map Features page. It wasn't easy for me to

Re: [OSM-dev] The wiki defines the database (was: relations)

2008-11-04 Thread Erik Johansson
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Matt Amos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 10:46 PM, Erik Johansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: COn Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Richard Fairhurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The people doing the defining are, in many cases, not the ones who are doing

Re: [OSM-dev] The wiki defines the database (was: relations)

2008-11-04 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, Erik Johansson wrote: Yes that is very cumbersome but how often does this happen, and does it really warrant that flippant attitude? Having a better way to handle multiple meanings of tags might help. The core of this flippant attitude is easily explained. When OSM was started - that was

Re: [OSM-dev] The wiki defines the database (was: relations)

2008-11-04 Thread jim
Third possibility... I think that crrowd sourcing itself is actually different (in general and not just OSM being different). In the case of OSM we clearly see emergent 'standards' and 'models, These are codefied in the wiki and, more importantly, in the tools that realize the data into