[racket-dev] Release Announcement for v5.0.1 -- near final

2010-07-30 Thread Eli Barzilay
This is the final list, please see if you have any more changes -- specifically, the order is pretty much random. -- * Changes (as part of 5.0) in the `racket' language compared to the `scheme' language include

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-30 Thread Robby Findler
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 4:05 AM, Eli Barzilay e...@barzilay.org wrote: IMO, this thing is missing the point (the usual parens, ewww! one), as long as it ignores infix. Seems to me that this point directly contradicts one of Shriram's design goals, namely showing that + is no more special than

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-30 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Seems to me that this point directly contradicts one of Shriram's design goals, namely showing that + is no more special than append or one of your own functions. Precisely. And a point that Emu makes very well in Bootstrap. Also, when is Honu getting indentation? It's clear that putting

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-30 Thread John Clements
On Jul 30, 2010, at 6:47 AM, Robby Findler wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 4:05 AM, Eli Barzilay e...@barzilay.org wrote: IMO, this thing is missing the point (the usual parens, ewww! one), as long as it ignores infix. Seems to me that this point directly contradicts one of Shriram's

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-30 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
deffun: d/dx(f) =  defvar: delta = 0.001  fun: (x) in    ((f((x + delta)) - f(x)) / delta) Just to be pedantic, I've changed the in to in:, because I want to have a consistent rule for all key*words*. Which can be understood easier than the prefix version but avoids all the negatives

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-30 Thread Robby Findler
Given SK's teaching goals of all of these operators are really the same and Eli's (implicit?) goal of lets get wider hacker-types interested perhaps the right thing is to have a special infix-like mode that you can switch into with a keyword (ala what was discussed earlier in this thread)? This

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-30 Thread Dave Gurnell
Hi all, I thought I'd mention Scala's behaviour, which could be relevant. Any single-operator method like: class X { def method(arg: Y): Z = { ... } } can be written as an infix operator: val answer = x method y as well as the traditional dot/paren

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-30 Thread Joe Marshall
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 5:30 AM, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: My experience teaching Scheme beginners is that Lisp-style prefix for arithmetic is NOT a problem; they get the hang of it quickly.  It's when things start to nest and parens start to add on that they start to

Re: [racket-dev] Regher continues his excellent tutorial on undefined behavior language specifications

2010-07-30 Thread Jay McCarthy
Creating a large piece of safety-critical or security-critical code in C or C++ is the programming equivalent of crossing an 8-lane freeway blindfolded. On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: Here's parts 2:  http://blog.regehr.org/archives/232 and

Re: [racket-dev] Regher continues his excellent tutorial on undefined behavior language specifications

2010-07-30 Thread Robby Findler
The context of that one is also good. :) Robby On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Jay McCarthy jay.mccar...@gmail.com wrote: Creating a large piece of safety-critical or security-critical code in C or C++ is the programming equivalent of crossing an 8-lane freeway blindfolded. On Fri, Jul 30,

Re: [racket-dev] multiple key-press

2010-07-30 Thread Matthias Felleisen
I have finally taken the time to design a controller for an object that allows the use of multiple arrow keys. Two insights: it is doable and it is a truly insightful exercise on state machines. Most of the 'bullet' points at the top of the program came about because I designed and explored.

Re: [racket-dev] multiple key-press

2010-07-30 Thread Robby Findler
Looks like it would make a nice, involved exercise if you told the students what the right world type should be. Did you consider making the world be a list of keys and a posn (inserting and removing from the list in the key handler and interpreting the list of keys in the tick handler)? Robby

Re: [racket-dev] multiple key-press

2010-07-30 Thread Matthias Felleisen
On Jul 30, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Robby Findler wrote: Looks like it would make a nice, involved exercise if you told the students what the right world type should be. It would reinforce the FSA design idea, but it will consume space. I'll put it on my list and see how much space I need.

[racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-30 Thread Guillaume Marceau
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Matthias Felleisen matth...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: Programmers who complain about parens mean something larger:  -- the entire syntax (it doesn't look traditional)  -- the entire semantics (function calls dictate nearly everything)  -- the way we program

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-30 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Several things to reply to, but before I get to them, it's critical that I fix this misconception: 2. I doubt that we can figure out the usefulness of this new syntax on this mailing list. I am not trying to. I only posted it here because I figured having lots of eyes look at it would