Re: [racket-dev] ~e vs ~.s

2010-08-26 Thread Robby Findler
When I tried to do that to look thru your changes to the framework, I was overwhelmed with all the reindentation that you did. Is there a way to avoid seeing that? Robby On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:53 PM, Eli Barzilay e...@barzilay.org wrote: On Aug 25, Eli Barzilay wrote: [...]  If I touched

Re: [racket-dev] stepper UI question

2010-08-26 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
I like this. The Stepper becomes available as an aid to help you answer questions about how things came to be. It is indeed often the case that I lose the plot when stepping forward and hence go to the end and work backward; this could put you there right away. Yes, left-to-right scrolling

Re: [racket-dev] stepper UI question

2010-08-26 Thread Robby Findler
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: Is this a fair, operational restatement of your cautionary note: It will be much less complicated to add just a `how did I get here?' button to the REPL and have the rest of the stepper reside in its own window,

Re: [racket-dev] Language selection considered harmful

2010-08-26 Thread Jon Rafkind
When I'm answering such questions, it is getting extremely difficult to tell people what to do, and often leads to some confusingly broken dialog. See for example: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3572450/packaging-system-in-racket This is mostly a rant since I don't see any easy way to

Re: [racket-dev] Language selection considered harmful

2010-08-26 Thread Eli Barzilay
On Aug 26, Jon Rafkind wrote: When I'm answering such questions, it is getting extremely difficult to tell people what to do, and often leads to some confusingly broken dialog. See for example: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3572450/packaging-system-in-racket This is mostly a rant

Re: [racket-dev] Language selection considered harmful

2010-08-26 Thread Neil Van Dyke
Rename Use the language declared in the source option to Declared (if first-week CS students don't confuse that with declarative language)? Automatic or Detected sound a little bit grandiose, but aren't too bad either. Ideally, only students ever have to change this setting, or even be told

Re: [racket-dev] Language selection considered harmful

2010-08-26 Thread Jon Rafkind
On 08/26/2010 09:48 AM, Eli Barzilay wrote: On Aug 26, Jon Rafkind wrote: When I'm answering such questions, it is getting extremely difficult to tell people what to do, and often leads to some confusingly broken dialog. See for example:

Re: [racket-dev] Language selection considered harmful

2010-08-26 Thread Jon Rafkind
On 08/26/2010 09:33 AM, Eli Barzilay wrote: It's getting to be difficult to tell people what to do wrt choosing a language. There are several things that contribute to this: * I can't use default language to refer to the module language, since it's not the default. * I can't use module

Re: [racket-dev] stepper UI question

2010-08-26 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Understood, and agreed. Thanks! Anyone else have comments/suggestions? I really like Robby's UI suggestion and am treating it as the lead contender. On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Shriram Krishnamurthi

Re: [racket-dev] Language selection considered harmful

2010-08-26 Thread Eli Barzilay
On Aug 26, Neil Van Dyke wrote: Rename Use the language declared in the source option to Declared (if first-week CS students don't confuse that with declarative language)? Automatic or Detected sound a little bit grandiose, but aren't too bad either. That would be nice, but the problem is

Re: [racket-dev] ~e vs ~.s

2010-08-26 Thread Eli Barzilay
On Aug 26, Robby Findler wrote: When I tried to do that to look thru your changes to the framework, I was overwhelmed with all the reindentation that you did. Is there a way to avoid seeing that? Yes there is -- the usual two diff flags can be used: * -b, --ignore-space-change * -w,

Re: [racket-dev] stepper UI question

2010-08-26 Thread Matthias Felleisen
On Aug 26, 2010, at 11:59 AM, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: Anyone else have comments/suggestions? Robby's idea of allowing students to choose how a RUN actually worked occurred to me too but I had a different behavior in mind. Instead of opening a separate window, I'd much rather see a

Re: [racket-dev] stepper UI question

2010-08-26 Thread Robby Findler
I can see how to do what Mattgias is suggesting at the snip level (so not as bad as I made out) but you won't get nested scroll bars so you might not like it. Robby On Thursday, August 26, 2010, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: Understood.  But I think this is what Robby is saying

[racket-dev] alt-exp syntax

2010-08-26 Thread Everett
I don't know if anyone cares about this, but I made a reader and #lang language for the alternate syntax I came up with (direct, obvious conversion to s-exp but allows writing fewer parens). Implementations are usually better appreciated than mere proposals. You can get at it here:

Re: [racket-dev] alt-exp syntax

2010-08-26 Thread Jos Koot
One of the examples reads: {lambda: [x] x(x)} (lambda: [x] x(x)) Notice the curly brackets in the first line. I am not sure I like this. Nevertheless a nice idea to use colons in order to reduce the number of parentheses. Jos -Original Message- From: dev-boun...@racket-lang.org

Re: [racket-dev] Racket stuffs

2010-08-26 Thread John Clements
On Aug 26, 2010, at 2:51 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: On Aug 17, Eli Barzilay wrote: So now I have these counts: http://tmp.barzilay.org/r1.png 4 http://tmp.barzilay.org/r3.png 1 http://tmp.barzilay.org/r4.png 2 Update on this: the first version (r1 above) was by far the most

Re: [racket-dev] stepper UI question

2010-08-26 Thread John Clements
On Aug 26, 2010, at 10:59 AM, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: Got it. Thanks for all the inputs and for the great suggestion! A couple of comments: 1) I could very well be mis-stating his position, but I think that Guillaume felt quite strongly that the reductions should occur in the

Re: [racket-dev] stepper UI question

2010-08-26 Thread Kathy Gray
On 26 Aug 2010, at 11:32:48, John Clements wrote: 3) It's not clear how you want to handle test cases; they don't currently generate anything in the interactions window, and yet this sounds like the thing that you're *most* likely to want to be able to step. For the sake of argument, let

Re: [racket-dev] printing images in REPL

2010-08-26 Thread Robby Findler
At the moment there is a barn-door sized security hole in DrRacket, whereby it will take any snip% instance from the user's program and just display it in the repl. You can exploit this for Good by making the current-print of your language turn some values into snips (like images and things).

Re: [racket-dev] stepper UI question

2010-08-26 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
That seems like the wrong point of integration. If I have (define v complex expr) (check-expect (g v) h) then simply stepping into (g v) may not at all be enough. If the stepper forced people to rewrite their programs just for steppability, that should be considered a bad design. Shriram

Re: [racket-dev] stepper UI question

2010-08-26 Thread Robby Findler
Well, that makes sense. I'm just saying that, in an ideal world, when using the DR, you're much more writing tests that typing things into the REPL. So it would be good if the stepper could support that better in some way. Robby On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 7:30 PM, Shriram Krishnamurthi

Re: [racket-dev] stepper UI question

2010-08-26 Thread John Clements
On Aug 26, 2010, at 5:23 PM, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: I know Guillaume proposed to do it in the context of the editor. I'm unconvinced that that's the right way to go. At any rate, integrating into an existing bit of infrastructure (def'ns or inter's) is going to be much more complex