Re: [racket-dev] intro videos

2011-07-14 Thread John Clements

On Jul 13, 2011, at 11:04 PM, Guillaume Marceau wrote:

 On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 1:29 AM, John Clements
 cleme...@brinckerhoff.org wrote:
  As a result, I've now added a preference to DrRacket called enable 
 automatic parentheses.
 
 On my machine, I get a pair when I press  ( or {, but not with [. I am
 seeing the intended behavior?

Desired, no. Expected, yes. Overriding [ is harder because of smart 
parentheses.  Yes, combining the paren-matching code with the smart-paren code 
is probably the right solution, and Robby suggested it to me. I just took a 
quick look at that code and it still looks pretty hairy.

 
 Do you intend to make closing ) ] and } skip over a closing
 parenthesis? What the right behavior should be in this case is a bit
 subtle, but it's worth getting it just right. You might what to
 inspect how Eclipse does it.

Is it worth getting it right? It would be nice, I agree. Eclipse's behavior 
seems downright inconsistent, to me; its behavior appears to depend on how 
quickly you type.

John




smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [racket-dev] intro videos

2011-07-14 Thread Kathi Fisler
 Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 09:16:16 -0700
 From: John Clements cleme...@brinckerhoff.org
 Subject: [racket-dev] intro videos

 Frustrated by what I'm seeing on khanacademy.org, I've now recorded 8 *short* 
 videos on
  getting started programming in DrRacket.

I looked at most of the videos and like them.  For what they are
trying to do, they are doing it well.  Thanks, John, for the
initiative on this!

I said for what they are trying to do because we ideally need to
complement these with some higher-level material on where one would go
with what one might learn in John's videos.  The material that we
cover in an intro lecture, before teaching students the mechanics.
With the combination, we might have something that helps draw people
into DrRacket.  Right now, John's videos will be most useful to people
already drawn in who want to learn what to do.

I actually sent mail around within the Bootstrap squad just two weeks
ago about a high level how to make a world video, similar to an
intro lecture for the PbD workshops.  I'm currently redesigning my
intro lecture for next week's workshop.  If it goes over well, I'll
look into making a video version of it to complement John's.

Kathi
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] New error messages for *SL

2011-07-14 Thread Eli Barzilay
10 hours ago, Guillaume Marceau wrote:
 On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 12:00 AM, Robby Findler
 ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote:
  In racket/pretty, pretty-print is like print and pretty-write is
  like write. In scheme/pretty, pretty-print is like write.
 
  So probably the better change is to stick with racket/pretty and
  use pretty-write instead of pretty-print.
 
 Done. It is commit 793d7894, which should be pulled into the
 release.

I missed that -- so the only question I have for you is about da6e819.

-- 
  ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)))  Eli Barzilay:
http://barzilay.org/   Maze is Life!
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


[racket-dev] exact trig functions

2011-07-14 Thread Stephen Bloch
Would there be any point in providing (in student languages, and in #lang 
racket/base) trig functions that operate in degrees rather than radians?  It's 
a trivial conversion, of course... unless you want to respect exactness, e.g. 
(sindeg 30) should be EXACTLY 1/2, and (atandeg -5 5) should be EXACTLY -45, in 
which case it's a first-term-student exercise, but not quite trivial.

Stephen Bloch
sbl...@adelphi.edu
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] New error messages for *SL

2011-07-14 Thread Matthias Felleisen

Are the SIGNATURES in the beginner funs definitions and elsewhere 
fed to Mike's signature checker? If so, we need to roll back a commit 
I made for a small change to atan and that Eli just rolled over to the
release. 

If not, it's okay. 


On Jul 13, 2011, at 11:57 PM, Guillaume Marceau wrote:

 On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Matthew Flatt mfl...@cs.utah.edu wrote:
  * All contracts for primitives print as lists.
 
 
 I traced this down to the change from (require scheme/pretty) to
 (require racket/pretty).
 
 I don't understand how that's causing the bug, but reverting to
 (require scheme/pretty) fixes things.
 
 Ryan, can you pull this fix into the release branch? It's commit
 452f3a14fb7b25e6c54d08abdb8770fb20e68752
 
 _
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] [plt] Push #23012: master branch updated

2011-07-14 Thread Stephen Chang
Does anyone know why drdr is hanging on this commit? Is it because it
changed the docs?




On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:27 PM,  as...@racket-lang.org wrote:
 asumu has updated `master' from cf04739f93 to 2fdc56db3a.
  http://git.racket-lang.org/plt/cf04739f93..2fdc56db3a

 =[ 1 Commits ]==

 Directory summary:
  100.0% collects/scribblings/draw/

 ~~

 2fdc56d Asumu Takikawa as...@racket-lang.org 2011-07-13 15:34
 :
 | Use real contract in bitmap% docs
 :
  M collects/scribblings/draw/bitmap-class.scrbl |    2 +-

 =[ Overall Diff ]===

 collects/scribblings/draw/bitmap-class.scrbl
 
 --- OLD/collects/scribblings/draw/bitmap-class.scrbl
 +++ NEW/collects/scribblings/draw/bitmap-class.scrbl
 @@ -62,7 +62,7 @@ When a @racket[bits] byte string is provided: Creates a 
 monochrome
                             [y real?]
                             [width exact-nonnegative-integer?]
                             [height exact-nonnegative-integer?]
 -                            [pixels (and/c bytes? mutable?)]
 +                            [pixels (and/c bytes? (not/c immutable?))]
                             [just-alpha? any/c #f]
                             [pre-multiplied? any/c #f])
            void?]{


_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] intro videos

2011-07-14 Thread Eli Barzilay
5 minutes ago, Guillaume Marceau wrote:
 On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Eli Barzilay e...@barzilay.org wrote:
 
  A proper thing would need to do much more, something like paredit.
 
 Or DivaScheme, but without its edit-mode/insert-mode. Though the
 modalness was a life saver for people with RSI, and wasn't very
 popular with the healthy-wristed.

Yes -- paredit is exactly an attempt to get the always-balanced
benefits of structured editing, without an actual structure editor.

-- 
  ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)))  Eli Barzilay:
http://barzilay.org/   Maze is Life!
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] intro videos

2011-07-14 Thread Neil Van Dyke

Eli Barzilay wrote at 07/14/2011 10:38 AM:

9 hours ago, John Clements wrote:

First thing: you can use ESC-(. That is: press and release ESC, type
(. That works, but it's a big pain.



Use Alt-( -- much less pain.  (And that works in Emacs regardless of
paredit, BTW.)
  


On a tangent, but an important one:

1. Text editors that involve Alt- combinations a lot should also support 
ESC.


2. People should be warned that the ESC ( (two keypresses) might be *a 
lot* easier on their hands than Alt-( (multi-key combinations).


3. Other things you can do to make typing easier on the hands might be 
good, though there are tradeoffs.


The reason has to do with the stress of stretching/twisting people do 
with their hands for multi-key combination, is my layperson's 
understanding.  Around the time, when CTS and other RSIs were getting a 
lot of attention, I heard this from multiple credible sources, and the 
knowledge seemed to work for me.


Now, you can avoid the stretching by using alternate hands for this 
two-key combination, if you have two Alt keys.  But the alternate-hands 
approach doesn't avoid stretching when you get a Ctrl-Alt combination, 
which happens a lot in, say, Emacs.  So, if you forsee frequent Ctrl-Alt 
combinations


I had hand pain from typing, circa 1990, but I made a few changes, like 
switching to use ESC in Emacs.  Something in those changes solved the 
problem, and years later I can still type heavily without difficulty.


Back then, I was on a project team that had two people injure their 
hands from typing, to the point that they were advised not to type *at 
all* or they would lose all use of their hands.  We hired typists for 
them, and eventually they had to change careers.  Most of the rest of 
the team had wrist braces by the end.  It happens; we weren't really 
designed to sit down and press little squares a hundred times per 
minute, all day.


--
http://www.neilvandyke.org/
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [racket-dev] intro videos

2011-07-14 Thread Eli Barzilay
15 minutes ago, Guillaume Marceau wrote:
 On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Eli Barzilay e...@barzilay.org wrote:
  Yes -- paredit is exactly an attempt to get the always-balanced
  benefits of structured editing, without an actual structure editor.
 
 Yes, but paredit still gets its priorities backward. You want to
 have the most commonly used edit operations on the easiest chords
 (or without any chord at all, if you are trying to avoid RSI.) In
 paredit, keystrokes to edit sexp are heavily chorded, and keystrokes
 to edit single-characters are simple, even though single-char only
 occur when fixing typos in identifiers, which is quite rare when
 using auto-completion.

I'm sorry, but this is a completely nonsensical complaint.  paredit
does not have any priorities of its own here, it is simply using the
same exact key (-chords) that are used by default on Emacs.  I guess
that you can say that it has a priority: follow the standard Emacs
keys.  Given that it *is* an Emacs extension, doing anything other
than this would be insane.


Case-in-point:

 Case-in-point,
 Moving forward by one sexp in paredit is CTRL-ALT-F (ouch). In
 DivaScheme it's just L.
 Moving forward by two chars in paredit is RIGHT, RIGHT. In DivaScheme
 it's W, RIGHT, RIGHT

if paredit would have used vi-style modes, it would have been dead and
burried years ago.  In fact, *you* said that DivaScheme wasn't very
popular with the healthy-wristed.

I appreciate the potential pain etc that people with RSI go through,
but this is completely unrelated to what paredit does.  Keeping it
separate is important -- this way, you need one solution for structure
editing and another for dealing with RSI -- and the only requirement
on both sides is that they compose well.  (In addition, RSI is not the
only problem that affects keyboard use.  What about different keyboard
layouts?  Different input devices?)

-- 
  ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)))  Eli Barzilay:
http://barzilay.org/   Maze is Life!
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


[racket-dev] Was: intro videos

2011-07-14 Thread Neil Van Dyke

Guillaume Marceau wrote at 07/15/2011 01:02 AM:

Yes, but paredit still gets its priorities backward. You want to have
the most commonly used edit operations on the easiest chords (or
without any chord at all, if you are trying to avoid RSI.)


BTW, I just started a tangent, on the users list.  Subject: what kind 
of Racket editor operations would you like to see?


--
http://www.neilvandyke.org/
_
 For list-related administrative tasks:
 http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] intro videos

2011-07-14 Thread Eli Barzilay
An hour ago, Neil Van Dyke wrote:
 
 Now, you can avoid the stretching by using alternate hands for this
 two-key combination, if you have two Alt keys.

(I always do that, and I'm picky enough with my keyboards that it
takes much less than a missing left-side Alt key to make me deposit it
in the nearest garbage bin.)


 But the alternate-hands approach doesn't avoid stretching when you
 get a Ctrl-Alt combination, which happens a lot in, say, Emacs.  So,
 if you forsee frequent Ctrl-Alt combinations

And for that, I have my Emacs set with just Alt for all
expression-related things, including movement (Alt-left and -right).
Still using two hands.  (And had I been using paredit, I'd make it do
just that, and/or complain that it should use the more modern bind
the key that is currently bound to X to Y.)

-- 
  ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)))  Eli Barzilay:
http://barzilay.org/   Maze is Life!
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] New error messages for *SL

2011-07-14 Thread Michael Sperber

Matthias Felleisen matth...@ccs.neu.edu writes:

 Are the SIGNATURES in the beginner funs definitions and elsewhere 
 fed to Mike's signature checker? If so, we need to roll back a commit 
 I made for a small change to atan and that Eli just rolled over to the
 release. 

You mean those in the documentation?  No.

-- 
Cheers =8-} Mike
Friede, Völkerverständigung und überhaupt blabla
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev