Re: [racket-dev] Revising Racket's home page
Sam and Asumu, this looks like significant improvement in several ways, thank you. Two comments: * There's a lot of stuff for a home page. I don't know whether this is good or bad, but it's noticeable. * Under "Documentation" heading, the subheadings are confusing, IMHO. 5 of the manuals are for experienced programmers. The other 1 is for children, and makes Racket look like an educational toy, especially when it's listed first. How about trimming a bunch of stuff from the main home page, and having 2 big buttons to go to audience-specific home pages: (1) beginners and small children who want to see the pictures demo and/or HtDP, and for whom the home page does not need code examples or links to manuals, and to whom HtDP and RoR should be pushed strongly; (2) and experienced programmers, who want to see most everything, and to whom HtDP and RoR should should not be pushed near as much. The audience-specific home pages can have navigation cues so someone landing on them can know which audience the page is for and that there is a page for a different audience, too. * I don't see "PLaneT" anywhere. Is PLaneT going to be unpersoned entirely? Neil V. _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revising Racket's home page
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 05:39:54PM -0400, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > Recently I (with assistance from Asumu) have spent some time drafting > a revised home page for Racket. A revised web page will nicely > complement the big upcoming release, I hope. You can see the draft > here, which is ready for people to try out: > > http://homes.soic.indiana.edu/samth/new-web/ I think the header should include "Racket", probably to the right of the logo. > 1. It works well on small devices, which our current page doesn't. > Try it out on a phone or a tablet. I tried it on an iPhone running an oldish iOS (5.1.1 it seems). The text size is more readable, but the organization/layout needs work. For example, after the top header I see headings and sections in the following order (note the "News" heading): Racket: A programmable programming language Racket is a wide-spectrum ... Start Quickly News < (sample program) > Racket version 5.3.5 has been released. Racket videos are now available. ... The subsequent headings/sections seem ordered ok, but the sections themselves could be more clearly set apart from each other. Also, the book cover images take up a lot of screen space (full width of the page) on the phone. David _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revising Racket's home page
This looks fantastic! Thanks! Robby On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > Recently I (with assistance from Asumu) have spent some time drafting > a revised home page for Racket. A revised web page will nicely > complement the big upcoming release, I hope. You can see the draft > here, which is ready for people to try out: > > http://homes.soic.indiana.edu/samth/new-web/ > > Some things to try out out: clicking the right and left arrows, > clicking the "?" box, visiting the RacketCon page. > > The new page addresses a few problems that I see with our current page: > > 1. It works well on small devices, which our current page doesn't. > Try it out on a phone or a tablet. > 2. It reduces the size of the top header, which will lighten the > burden on the documentation pages, for example, or the pkg index if we > add the header there. > 3. It puts more info on the first page. This means that people are > more likely to see information about how to contribute to Racket or > approaches to learning programming using our tools. > 4. The font size is larger, which I think makes it much more readable. > > Perhaps more controversially, I adapted some prose about Racket from > Matthias' "Racket is ..." post, and added a tag line at the top. > > Lots of work is still needed if we want to use this as the basis for > Racket's web page (it's written in raw HTML, other pages would need > work, etc), but I hope that people like it enough to continue pursuing > this. > > Sam > _ > Racket Developers list: > http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev > _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] sandbox and file-/directory-existence tests
Thanks! Instead of changing 'exists permissions, I think I found the right approach to moving the computation so that it doesn't interact with the sandboxes. At Mon, 19 Aug 2013 16:49:28 -0400, Eli Barzilay wrote: > A few minutes ago, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Matthew Flatt wrote: > > > > > > Is there a situation where allowing an arbitrary file- or > > > directory-existence test would be bad? > > > > This all depends on how paranoid we want to be. There are certainly > > situations when this will be bad -- it lets you determine who else > > has an account on a computer, for example. But there are contexts > > where having GC be observable is a security hole as well, so we have > > to pick a spot on the continuum. > > Getting some hacker-useful information from an observable GC time is > much harder than doing so from FS existence tests. Two quick > examples: > > * On a unix machine, check if there's a /tmp/shadow file -- if there > isn't then you have a machine that is a potential gold mine for > hackers. > > * On a windows machine you can use some network drive or a drive of > some random device for a kind of a local DOS attack. > > (There's probably a lot of similar things that are much more > sophisticated; probe attacks in general are very common now.) > > -- > ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: > http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revising Racket's home page
Ok, that makes sense. Can you file this as an issue on the GitHub repository I just mentioned? Sam On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 7:09 PM, Stephen Chang wrote: >>> - web scraper example is cut off when clicking "?" Maybe make the >>> overlay window variable width? >> >> I'm not sure what you mean. Can you include a screenshot? > > Screenshot attached. > > Obviously not a huge issue but looking into it more, the example gets > cut off only because my browser window width is too small (monitor is > in portrait). If I increase the window width then the entire example > is visible. Still, it seemed weird because there was plenty of space > on either side. > > >> >>> >>> on mobile (android 4.1.2, default browser): >>> - topright menu has very dark background when opened, so links are not >>> very visible >> >> I'll check this out. >> >> Thanks for the feedback! >> >> Sam >> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt >>> wrote: Recently I (with assistance from Asumu) have spent some time drafting a revised home page for Racket. A revised web page will nicely complement the big upcoming release, I hope. You can see the draft here, which is ready for people to try out: http://homes.soic.indiana.edu/samth/new-web/ Some things to try out out: clicking the right and left arrows, clicking the "?" box, visiting the RacketCon page. The new page addresses a few problems that I see with our current page: 1. It works well on small devices, which our current page doesn't. Try it out on a phone or a tablet. 2. It reduces the size of the top header, which will lighten the burden on the documentation pages, for example, or the pkg index if we add the header there. 3. It puts more info on the first page. This means that people are more likely to see information about how to contribute to Racket or approaches to learning programming using our tools. 4. The font size is larger, which I think makes it much more readable. Perhaps more controversially, I adapted some prose about Racket from Matthias' "Racket is ..." post, and added a tag line at the top. Lots of work is still needed if we want to use this as the basis for Racket's web page (it's written in raw HTML, other pages would need work, etc), but I hope that people like it enough to continue pursuing this. Sam _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev >>> _ >>> Racket Developers list: >>> http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revising Racket's home page
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Stephen Chang wrote: > Some quick observations. > > on Chromium Version 23.0.1271.97 Ubuntu 12.04 (23.0.1271.97-0ubuntu0.12.04.1): > > - broken links: download, research Right, these are TODO. > - only 2 examples? :) how come some got cut? The example formatting is all manual, so I just did enough to demo all the workings. > - web scraper example is cut off when clicking "?" Maybe make the > overlay window variable width? I'm not sure what you mean. Can you include a screenshot? > > on mobile (android 4.1.2, default browser): > - topright menu has very dark background when opened, so links are not > very visible I'll check this out. Thanks for the feedback! Sam > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt > wrote: >> Recently I (with assistance from Asumu) have spent some time drafting >> a revised home page for Racket. A revised web page will nicely >> complement the big upcoming release, I hope. You can see the draft >> here, which is ready for people to try out: >> >> http://homes.soic.indiana.edu/samth/new-web/ >> >> Some things to try out out: clicking the right and left arrows, >> clicking the "?" box, visiting the RacketCon page. >> >> The new page addresses a few problems that I see with our current page: >> >> 1. It works well on small devices, which our current page doesn't. >> Try it out on a phone or a tablet. >> 2. It reduces the size of the top header, which will lighten the >> burden on the documentation pages, for example, or the pkg index if we >> add the header there. >> 3. It puts more info on the first page. This means that people are >> more likely to see information about how to contribute to Racket or >> approaches to learning programming using our tools. >> 4. The font size is larger, which I think makes it much more readable. >> >> Perhaps more controversially, I adapted some prose about Racket from >> Matthias' "Racket is ..." post, and added a tag line at the top. >> >> Lots of work is still needed if we want to use this as the basis for >> Racket's web page (it's written in raw HTML, other pages would need >> work, etc), but I hope that people like it enough to continue pursuing >> this. >> >> Sam >> _ >> Racket Developers list: >> http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev > _ > Racket Developers list: > http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revising Racket's home page
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > Recently I (with assistance from Asumu) have spent some time drafting > a revised home page for Racket. A revised web page will nicely > complement the big upcoming release, I hope. You can see the draft > here, which is ready for people to try out: > > http://homes.soic.indiana.edu/samth/new-web/ The source for the page is now here: https://github.com/samth/new-racket-web if you're interested. Sam _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revising Racket's home page
Some quick observations. on Chromium Version 23.0.1271.97 Ubuntu 12.04 (23.0.1271.97-0ubuntu0.12.04.1): - broken links: download, research - only 2 examples? :) how come some got cut? - web scraper example is cut off when clicking "?" Maybe make the overlay window variable width? on mobile (android 4.1.2, default browser): - topright menu has very dark background when opened, so links are not very visible On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > Recently I (with assistance from Asumu) have spent some time drafting > a revised home page for Racket. A revised web page will nicely > complement the big upcoming release, I hope. You can see the draft > here, which is ready for people to try out: > > http://homes.soic.indiana.edu/samth/new-web/ > > Some things to try out out: clicking the right and left arrows, > clicking the "?" box, visiting the RacketCon page. > > The new page addresses a few problems that I see with our current page: > > 1. It works well on small devices, which our current page doesn't. > Try it out on a phone or a tablet. > 2. It reduces the size of the top header, which will lighten the > burden on the documentation pages, for example, or the pkg index if we > add the header there. > 3. It puts more info on the first page. This means that people are > more likely to see information about how to contribute to Racket or > approaches to learning programming using our tools. > 4. The font size is larger, which I think makes it much more readable. > > Perhaps more controversially, I adapted some prose about Racket from > Matthias' "Racket is ..." post, and added a tag line at the top. > > Lots of work is still needed if we want to use this as the basis for > Racket's web page (it's written in raw HTML, other pages would need > work, etc), but I hope that people like it enough to continue pursuing > this. > > Sam > _ > Racket Developers list: > http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revising Racket's home page
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Matthew Flatt wrote: > I get a "Go to the Choose page to select fonts" page. > > But reloading the draft Racket page (should have tried that in the > first place) seems to have fixed the problem. Ok, great. I think there are more sophisticated things I can do to make that less likely, but I won't worry for now. Sam > > At Mon, 19 Aug 2013 18:26:23 -0400, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: >> On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Matthew Flatt wrote: >> > Fantastic! >> > >> > The non-code font shows up rasterized on my phone (iPhone 4s running >> > iOS 5.1.1), while the code font looks fine. Both fonts look right on my >> > mini-tablet (Nexus 7). >> >> That's very odd. Both fonts are loaded from Google fonts, so they >> should either both work or not. >> >> What do you see here: >> http://www.google.com/fonts/#QuickUsePlace:quickUse/Family: >> >> > >> > At Mon, 19 Aug 2013 17:39:54 -0400, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: >> >> Recently I (with assistance from Asumu) have spent some time drafting >> >> a revised home page for Racket. A revised web page will nicely >> >> complement the big upcoming release, I hope. You can see the draft >> >> here, which is ready for people to try out: >> >> >> >> http://homes.soic.indiana.edu/samth/new-web/ >> >> >> >> Some things to try out out: clicking the right and left arrows, >> >> clicking the "?" box, visiting the RacketCon page. >> >> >> >> The new page addresses a few problems that I see with our current page: >> >> >> >> 1. It works well on small devices, which our current page doesn't. >> >> Try it out on a phone or a tablet. >> >> 2. It reduces the size of the top header, which will lighten the >> >> burden on the documentation pages, for example, or the pkg index if we >> >> add the header there. >> >> 3. It puts more info on the first page. This means that people are >> >> more likely to see information about how to contribute to Racket or >> >> approaches to learning programming using our tools. >> >> 4. The font size is larger, which I think makes it much more readable. >> >> >> >> Perhaps more controversially, I adapted some prose about Racket from >> >> Matthias' "Racket is ..." post, and added a tag line at the top. >> >> >> >> Lots of work is still needed if we want to use this as the basis for >> >> Racket's web page (it's written in raw HTML, other pages would need >> >> work, etc), but I hope that people like it enough to continue pursuing >> >> this. >> >> >> >> Sam >> >> _ >> >> Racket Developers list: >> >> http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revising Racket's home page
I get a "Go to the Choose page to select fonts" page. But reloading the draft Racket page (should have tried that in the first place) seems to have fixed the problem. At Mon, 19 Aug 2013 18:26:23 -0400, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Matthew Flatt wrote: > > Fantastic! > > > > The non-code font shows up rasterized on my phone (iPhone 4s running > > iOS 5.1.1), while the code font looks fine. Both fonts look right on my > > mini-tablet (Nexus 7). > > That's very odd. Both fonts are loaded from Google fonts, so they > should either both work or not. > > What do you see here: > http://www.google.com/fonts/#QuickUsePlace:quickUse/Family: > > > > > At Mon, 19 Aug 2013 17:39:54 -0400, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > >> Recently I (with assistance from Asumu) have spent some time drafting > >> a revised home page for Racket. A revised web page will nicely > >> complement the big upcoming release, I hope. You can see the draft > >> here, which is ready for people to try out: > >> > >> http://homes.soic.indiana.edu/samth/new-web/ > >> > >> Some things to try out out: clicking the right and left arrows, > >> clicking the "?" box, visiting the RacketCon page. > >> > >> The new page addresses a few problems that I see with our current page: > >> > >> 1. It works well on small devices, which our current page doesn't. > >> Try it out on a phone or a tablet. > >> 2. It reduces the size of the top header, which will lighten the > >> burden on the documentation pages, for example, or the pkg index if we > >> add the header there. > >> 3. It puts more info on the first page. This means that people are > >> more likely to see information about how to contribute to Racket or > >> approaches to learning programming using our tools. > >> 4. The font size is larger, which I think makes it much more readable. > >> > >> Perhaps more controversially, I adapted some prose about Racket from > >> Matthias' "Racket is ..." post, and added a tag line at the top. > >> > >> Lots of work is still needed if we want to use this as the basis for > >> Racket's web page (it's written in raw HTML, other pages would need > >> work, etc), but I hope that people like it enough to continue pursuing > >> this. > >> > >> Sam > >> _ > >> Racket Developers list: > >> http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revising Racket's home page
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Matthew Flatt wrote: > Fantastic! > > The non-code font shows up rasterized on my phone (iPhone 4s running > iOS 5.1.1), while the code font looks fine. Both fonts look right on my > mini-tablet (Nexus 7). That's very odd. Both fonts are loaded from Google fonts, so they should either both work or not. What do you see here: http://www.google.com/fonts/#QuickUsePlace:quickUse/Family: > > At Mon, 19 Aug 2013 17:39:54 -0400, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: >> Recently I (with assistance from Asumu) have spent some time drafting >> a revised home page for Racket. A revised web page will nicely >> complement the big upcoming release, I hope. You can see the draft >> here, which is ready for people to try out: >> >> http://homes.soic.indiana.edu/samth/new-web/ >> >> Some things to try out out: clicking the right and left arrows, >> clicking the "?" box, visiting the RacketCon page. >> >> The new page addresses a few problems that I see with our current page: >> >> 1. It works well on small devices, which our current page doesn't. >> Try it out on a phone or a tablet. >> 2. It reduces the size of the top header, which will lighten the >> burden on the documentation pages, for example, or the pkg index if we >> add the header there. >> 3. It puts more info on the first page. This means that people are >> more likely to see information about how to contribute to Racket or >> approaches to learning programming using our tools. >> 4. The font size is larger, which I think makes it much more readable. >> >> Perhaps more controversially, I adapted some prose about Racket from >> Matthias' "Racket is ..." post, and added a tag line at the top. >> >> Lots of work is still needed if we want to use this as the basis for >> Racket's web page (it's written in raw HTML, other pages would need >> work, etc), but I hope that people like it enough to continue pursuing >> this. >> >> Sam >> _ >> Racket Developers list: >> http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revising Racket's home page
Fantastic! The non-code font shows up rasterized on my phone (iPhone 4s running iOS 5.1.1), while the code font looks fine. Both fonts look right on my mini-tablet (Nexus 7). At Mon, 19 Aug 2013 17:39:54 -0400, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > Recently I (with assistance from Asumu) have spent some time drafting > a revised home page for Racket. A revised web page will nicely > complement the big upcoming release, I hope. You can see the draft > here, which is ready for people to try out: > > http://homes.soic.indiana.edu/samth/new-web/ > > Some things to try out out: clicking the right and left arrows, > clicking the "?" box, visiting the RacketCon page. > > The new page addresses a few problems that I see with our current page: > > 1. It works well on small devices, which our current page doesn't. > Try it out on a phone or a tablet. > 2. It reduces the size of the top header, which will lighten the > burden on the documentation pages, for example, or the pkg index if we > add the header there. > 3. It puts more info on the first page. This means that people are > more likely to see information about how to contribute to Racket or > approaches to learning programming using our tools. > 4. The font size is larger, which I think makes it much more readable. > > Perhaps more controversially, I adapted some prose about Racket from > Matthias' "Racket is ..." post, and added a tag line at the top. > > Lots of work is still needed if we want to use this as the basis for > Racket's web page (it's written in raw HTML, other pages would need > work, etc), but I hope that people like it enough to continue pursuing > this. > > Sam > _ > Racket Developers list: > http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
[racket-dev] Revising Racket's home page
Recently I (with assistance from Asumu) have spent some time drafting a revised home page for Racket. A revised web page will nicely complement the big upcoming release, I hope. You can see the draft here, which is ready for people to try out: http://homes.soic.indiana.edu/samth/new-web/ Some things to try out out: clicking the right and left arrows, clicking the "?" box, visiting the RacketCon page. The new page addresses a few problems that I see with our current page: 1. It works well on small devices, which our current page doesn't. Try it out on a phone or a tablet. 2. It reduces the size of the top header, which will lighten the burden on the documentation pages, for example, or the pkg index if we add the header there. 3. It puts more info on the first page. This means that people are more likely to see information about how to contribute to Racket or approaches to learning programming using our tools. 4. The font size is larger, which I think makes it much more readable. Perhaps more controversially, I adapted some prose about Racket from Matthias' "Racket is ..." post, and added a tag line at the top. Lots of work is still needed if we want to use this as the basis for Racket's web page (it's written in raw HTML, other pages would need work, etc), but I hope that people like it enough to continue pursuing this. Sam _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] sandbox and file-/directory-existence tests
A few minutes ago, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Matthew Flatt wrote: > > > > Is there a situation where allowing an arbitrary file- or > > directory-existence test would be bad? > > This all depends on how paranoid we want to be. There are certainly > situations when this will be bad -- it lets you determine who else > has an account on a computer, for example. But there are contexts > where having GC be observable is a security hole as well, so we have > to pick a spot on the continuum. Getting some hacker-useful information from an observable GC time is much harder than doing so from FS existence tests. Two quick examples: * On a unix machine, check if there's a /tmp/shadow file -- if there isn't then you have a machine that is a potential gold mine for hackers. * On a windows machine you can use some network drive or a drive of some random device for a kind of a local DOS attack. (There's probably a lot of similar things that are much more sophisticated; probe attacks in general are very common now.) -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] sandbox and file-/directory-existence tests
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Matthew Flatt wrote: > > Is there a situation where allowing an arbitrary file- or > directory-existence test would be bad? This all depends on how paranoid we want to be. There are certainly situations when this will be bad -- it lets you determine who else has an account on a computer, for example. But there are contexts where having GC be observable is a security hole as well, so we have to pick a spot on the continuum. Sam _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
[racket-dev] sandbox and file-/directory-existence tests
I keep running into sandbox trouble due to file- and directory-existence tests that are buried inside functions that inspect Racket's configuration. For example, the contract system runs into trouble because it uses `path->relative-string/library', which has to find collections, so it needs to look at the installation's configuration file, which it may have to find relative to the `racket' executable (and that's just the tip of the iceberg). Although I can imagine ways to fix the problem that involve trusting the modules that search for paths, I wonder whether there's any harm in simply allowing all file- and directory-existence tests. Is there a situation where allowing an arbitrary file- or directory-existence test would be bad? _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
