Re: [racket-dev] Latex files
On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 9:44 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt sa...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: It wouldn't hurt to include a little script that downloads the correct versions of the files from racket-lang.org somewhere and puts them where they are currently, tho, no? At least for the JFP file, it's pretty clearly a copyright violation for us to distribute the file at all -- on the web page or elsewhere. We'd have to download it from the CUP site. Is there more to the license than what Eli quoted? I don't see a violation of that part, at least. But I'm starting to think that Matthew's solution is easiest. Lets just punt. Robby _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Latex files
At Fri, 18 Feb 2011 22:44:54 -0500, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: At least for the JFP file, it's pretty clearly a copyright violation for us to distribute the file at all -- on the web page or elsewhere. We'd have to download it from the CUP site. For the ACM file, I emailed the contact email for the style file about the license. Did you e-mail anyone at JFP, yet? Looking again, I can imagine reading the jfp.cls file Robby's way. The intent of use may be produce a document, and the overall intent might permit redistribution of jfp.cls to others who are producing JFP documents. Or maybe not, but I now think it's worth asking, and I'll ask if you haven't already. _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Latex files
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Neil Van Dyke n...@neilvandyke.org wrote: Robby Findler wrote at 02/19/2011 08:00 AM: But I'm starting to think that Matthew's solution is easiest. Lets just punt. FWIW, I see additional reasons to, as Matthew suggested, *not* bundle third-party La/TeX class/style files in with Racket: * If user needs a different version of the file, avoid headache of getting LaTeX to pick up the desired version when there's a name conflict. For some of the things that scribble generates, new versions of the file will break scribble (this is why I originally thought it worth the work to try to have scribble download it from a known place). * If user needs a different version of the file, avoid accidentally getting the Racket-bundled version without knowing. This shouldn't happen. The user says #lang scribble/jfp which is its own, well-documented thing that does not adjust anyone's TEXINPUT paths or anything like that. It only uses jfp's style to help the final paper be something that jfp finds suitable for publishing. * For each paper, user should probably be archiving the exact class/style files used for the paper anyway, for future reproducibility. So, if they care about versions, they probably shouldn't be relying on whatever version of Racket is installed. This means that they probably shoudln't be writing their papers in Scribble, then! (And, of course, if they don't do that, then I think that there are no issues.) Robby _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Latex files
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:22 AM, Matthew Flatt mfl...@cs.utah.edu wrote: At Fri, 18 Feb 2011 22:44:54 -0500, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: At least for the JFP file, it's pretty clearly a copyright violation for us to distribute the file at all -- on the web page or elsewhere. We'd have to download it from the CUP site. For the ACM file, I emailed the contact email for the style file about the license. Did you e-mail anyone at JFP, yet? I have not, although one of the JFP editors is on this list :) Looking again, I can imagine reading the jfp.cls file Robby's way. The intent of use may be produce a document, and the overall intent might permit redistribution of jfp.cls to others who are producing JFP documents. That's certainly possible, but redistributing the file requires the permission of the copyright holder, and the tone of the notice suggests that they aren't very flexible about these things. -- sam th sa...@ccs.neu.edu _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Latex files
Does it seem okay to provide a script that downloads the .cls file from the jfp website and tuck it into the (already installed) distribution (presumably in a user-specific place)? If so, then we can at least set up a drdr test that does that and checks to see if scribble produces exactly the same .pdf file for some well known scribble input file, so we get notified problems when they move the url or make a new version of the file or something. Robby On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:46 AM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt sa...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:22 AM, Matthew Flatt mfl...@cs.utah.edu wrote: At Fri, 18 Feb 2011 22:44:54 -0500, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: At least for the JFP file, it's pretty clearly a copyright violation for us to distribute the file at all -- on the web page or elsewhere. We'd have to download it from the CUP site. For the ACM file, I emailed the contact email for the style file about the license. Did you e-mail anyone at JFP, yet? I have not, although one of the JFP editors is on this list :) Looking again, I can imagine reading the jfp.cls file Robby's way. The intent of use may be produce a document, and the overall intent might permit redistribution of jfp.cls to others who are producing JFP documents. That's certainly possible, but redistributing the file requires the permission of the copyright holder, and the tone of the notice suggests that they aren't very flexible about these things. -- sam th sa...@ccs.neu.edu _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Latex files
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: Does it seem okay to provide a script that downloads the .cls file from the jfp website and tuck it into the (already installed) distribution (presumably in a user-specific place)? Yes, this is a well-known workaround in these sorts of situations. It's used for packages that install Flash on lots of Linux distributions, for example. I think it would probably be sufficient to provide a .cls file that errors with a message indicating where to go to get the file, although the script you describe would certainly be a helpful addition. If so, then we can at least set up a drdr test that does that and checks to see if scribble produces exactly the same .pdf file for some well known scribble input file, so we get notified problems when they move the url or make a new version of the file or something. Robby On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:46 AM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt sa...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:22 AM, Matthew Flatt mfl...@cs.utah.edu wrote: At Fri, 18 Feb 2011 22:44:54 -0500, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: At least for the JFP file, it's pretty clearly a copyright violation for us to distribute the file at all -- on the web page or elsewhere. We'd have to download it from the CUP site. For the ACM file, I emailed the contact email for the style file about the license. Did you e-mail anyone at JFP, yet? I have not, although one of the JFP editors is on this list :) Looking again, I can imagine reading the jfp.cls file Robby's way. The intent of use may be produce a document, and the overall intent might permit redistribution of jfp.cls to others who are producing JFP documents. That's certainly possible, but redistributing the file requires the permission of the copyright holder, and the tone of the notice suggests that they aren't very flexible about these things. -- sam th sa...@ccs.neu.edu -- sam th sa...@ccs.neu.edu _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Latex files
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt sa...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: Does it seem okay to provide a script that downloads the .cls file from the jfp website and tuck it into the (already installed) distribution (presumably in a user-specific place)? Yes, this is a well-known workaround in these sorts of situations. It's used for packages that install Flash on lots of Linux distributions, for example. I think it would probably be sufficient to provide a .cls file that errors with a message indicating where to go to get the file, although the script you describe would certainly be a helpful addition. I guess it depends how much we are worried they will produce backwards incompatible .cls files. Robby _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Latex files
An hour and a half ago, Robby Findler wrote: On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt sa...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: Does it seem okay to provide a script that downloads the .cls file from the jfp website and tuck it into the (already installed) distribution (presumably in a user-specific place)? Yes, this is a well-known workaround in these sorts of situations. It's used for packages that install Flash on lots of Linux distributions, for example. I think it would probably be sufficient to provide a .cls file that errors with a message indicating where to go to get the file, although the script you describe would certainly be a helpful addition. I completely agree with that -- what's the best links for the two files? I guess it depends how much we are worried they will produce backwards incompatible .cls files. I don't think that this is a problem. These files do two things -- they change the layout etc (so there's no additional commands to use), and much less frequently they add commands. I think that if there's a new version that *breaks* some existing command, then it's likely something different enough that you'd want to use it anyway. That's on top of the fact that the first kind of change is frequent enough that I think that people are likely to end up using the updated version anyway. -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Latex files
On Feb 19, 2011, at 9:46 AM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: I have not, although one of the JFP editors is on this list :) I have routinely provided the JFP style file from my own web page, and I am pretty sure JFP knows that I do so. Of course, I am the content EiC not the commercial editor. I'll ask. ;; --- For SIGPLAN I will say that I routinely have to change the 'latest' download that students use for their drafts so that I get one-column versions of the papers that I can extensively edit. I would really prefer scribble to provide the option of installing my own and not requiring a fixed file. -- Matthias _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Latex files
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Matthias Felleisen matth...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: For SIGPLAN I will say that I routinely have to change the 'latest' download that students use for their drafts so that I get one-column versions of the papers that I can extensively edit. I would really prefer scribble to provide the option of installing my own and not requiring a fixed file. This particular option seems incredibly useful and perhaps one that scribble should provide support for directly. Robby _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
[racket-dev] Latex files
There are problematic latex files in collects/scribble/jfp/jfp.cls and sigplan/sigplanconf.cls. The latter has a copyright line but no license specified, and the first is much worse, since it explicitly states: %% This software may only be used in the preparation of journal %% articles or books or parts of books to be published by Cambridge %% University Press. Any other use constitutes an infringement of %% copyright. Does anyone know of some compatible but open files? (If not, then it sounds like it'll be a major PITA.) -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Latex files
Can we pull the Wine trick of having a script that runs during compilation that downloads the file from a well-known location? Jay 2011/2/18 Eli Barzilay e...@barzilay.org: There are problematic latex files in collects/scribble/jfp/jfp.cls and sigplan/sigplanconf.cls. The latter has a copyright line but no license specified, and the first is much worse, since it explicitly states: %% This software may only be used in the preparation of journal %% articles or books or parts of books to be published by Cambridge %% University Press. Any other use constitutes an infringement of %% copyright. Does anyone know of some compatible but open files? (If not, then it sounds like it'll be a major PITA.) -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev -- Jay McCarthy j...@cs.byu.edu Assistant Professor / Brigham Young University http://faculty.cs.byu.edu/~jay The glory of God is Intelligence - DC 93 _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Latex files
About a minute ago, Jay McCarthy wrote: Can we pull the Wine trick of having a script that runs during compilation that downloads the file from a well-known location? That sounds like a headache... and won't help with distribution (which will have the compiled file). Probably easier to do it at runtime, getting the file into some /tmp, then using it from there -- ? But then the problem is that running scribble on the file should probably ask you if you want to get it from there... (IOW, still sounds like a pain.) -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Latex files
Sorry. I think we should remove the .cls files and say that users have to put them somewhere that Latex will find them (e.g., set `TEXINPUTS'). _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Latex files
It wouldn't hurt to include a little script that downloads the correct versions of the files from racket-lang.org somewhere and puts them where they are currently, tho, no? Robby On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Matthew Flatt mfl...@cs.utah.edu wrote: Sorry. I think we should remove the .cls files and say that users have to put them somewhere that Latex will find them (e.g., set `TEXINPUTS'). _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Latex files
On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: It wouldn't hurt to include a little script that downloads the correct versions of the files from racket-lang.org somewhere and puts them where they are currently, tho, no? At least for the JFP file, it's pretty clearly a copyright violation for us to distribute the file at all -- on the web page or elsewhere. We'd have to download it from the CUP site. For the ACM file, I emailed the contact email for the style file about the license. sam th Robby On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Matthew Flatt mfl...@cs.utah.edu wrote: Sorry. I think we should remove the .cls files and say that users have to put them somewhere that Latex will find them (e.g., set `TEXINPUTS'). _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev -- sam th sa...@ccs.neu.edu _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
