Re: The road to TomEE 8

[Jean-Louis Monteiro]

Sounds reasonable to me

--
Jean-Louis Monteiro
http://twitter.com/jlouismonteiro
http://www.tomitribe.com

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 12:34 AM, David Blevins 
wrote:

> I’m happy to see is get started with 8.0.0-SNAPSHOT now in a tomee8 branch.
>
> As for 8.1, slight preference to delay that decision until we have some
> insight as to what things look like compliance-wise.
>
>
> --
> David Blevins
> http://twitter.com/dblevins
> http://www.tomitribe.com
>
> > On Aug 8, 2017, at 12:20 PM, Mark Struberg 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi folks!
> >
> > I'd love to start the tomee8 branch.
> > There are a lot of components which are ready to go.
> >
> > And I also had an idea about how we could very eagerly publish binaries
> to play with.
> >
> > I imagine to have 2 goals:
> >
> > 1.) TomEE-8.0: this will be the 'development train'.
> > It will contain JavaEE8 parts (mostly) and some JavaEE 7 parts still.
> > We do not need to wait until we are fully EE8 compatible and certified,
> we can just go on and publish this stuff as long as we CLEARLY state that
> we are not yet fully EE8.
> >
> > 2.) TomEE-8.1: once we reach full EE8 compatibility we switch over to
> 8.1.
> >
> > The main benefit of this approach is that we do not need to wait with
> doing a release until all the features are EE8 but we can eagerly push
> releases which are perfectly fine for people to use already.
> >
> >
> > Wdyt?
> >
> > LieGrue,
> > strub
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Code donations: Sheldon and Chatterbox

[Mark Struberg]

A few thoughts as mentioned over at the Geronimo list:

Reusable components make sense they are clearly distinctable. The part which 
contains that reusable components imo must get a different brand name than 
TomEE. Otherwise you get the same problem as with Geronimo: people will think 
these parts ONLY work with TomEE and that they are not usable separately.

I don't care if those components are 'managed' by the TomEE PMC, the Geroiniom 
PMC or a new "ASF EE commons". All I want is to have a vibrant community. And 
we have that already. It's just not happening that much on the TomEE list. 

The point is: if some outsiders say that TomEE is not really active then that's 
plain wrong. And of course it's our fault!
There is TONS of activity in Johnzon, OpenWebBeans, etc. And this is all done 
by people who are (most times) also TomEE committers. And it's also done in 
favour of TomEE.

The problem here is: TomEE does a really bad job in pointing out these ties! If 
TomEE would kind of cumulate this progress and make it clear that this makes it 
into TomEE, then it would be much clearer that there is no standstill but 
actually tons of activity.

LieGrue,
strub


> Am 10.08.2017 um 22:44 schrieb David Blevins :
> 
> 
>> On Aug 10, 2017, at 1:12 AM, Jean-Louis Monteiro  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Does it mean we'll rename TomEE as a TLP to something else so TomEE can be
>> a subproject and we will be creating more sub-projects for Sheldon or any
>> other project?
> 
> I’d definitely want to keep TomEE as the TLP name.  My primary goal is to 
> grow TomEE the brand and community and TLP with things that might directly or 
> indirectly help TomEE the server.
> 
> At Apache it’s very common for TLPs to have subprojects and not be renamed.  
> We can keep the TLP name as-is and foster crazy new ideas.  If any of them 
> becomes a massive effort in its own right, we spin it out.  APR was 
> originally an HTTPd subproject.  Ant was originally a Tomcat subproject.
> 
> Most subprojects don’t become that big.
> 
> We’ve actually had a couple subprojects, like the EJB 2.x to 3x Conversion 
> Eclipse Plugin Jonathan wrote.  Interestingly, it wasn’t actually working on 
> OpenEJB itself that got Jon commit, but this “crazy idea” subproject.  I’m 
> not actually sure he had even one commit on OpenEJB trunk when we voted him 
> in.
> 
> Vishwa got voted in working on the build tools and twitter bot.  Smaller 
> projects seem to be a lot easier for people to digest.  In Jon’s case, the 
> subproject work encouraged him to dig into OpenEJB and the rest is history.
> 
>> I have seen a lot of discussions in different Apache projects regarding a
>> common place for Java EE components (spec jars and common libraries). I
>> know TomEE has been mentioned a couple of times, as well as other Apache
>> projects.
>> Is this a related discussion?
>> Or should it be tackled at the same time?
> 
> I’d certainly welcome crazy new EE-related ideas and common libraries that 
> wanted to start here.  So in that sense, very related.
> 
> We’d want them to be in some way beneficial to the TomEE server ecosystem, 
> directly or indirectly.  They do not need to be TomEE-only components and can 
> definitely be reusable and have fun unique names.
> 
> In terms of at the same time, for me that’s a “no".  There’ve been 
> discussions in Geronimo specifically on what to do with that project.  Those 
> discussions have been going on for 2 years.  We are not in a position to 
> tackle that here.  I certainly wouldn’t want us to hold our breath, because I 
> don’t think anything there will resolve soon and don’t want to see is in the 
> position of not moving forward because we are waiting on another community.  
> I’d welcome the code and committers if they wanted to come over.
> 
> We know we need to inject some blood into our community, so that’s the 
> primary goal.  If it happens to kill two birds with one stone, cool.  If not, 
> that’s also fine.
> 
> In terms of things we can do to make this community more vibrant, making it 
> easier for crazy new ideas to start here is a great step forward.  I think we 
> need a couple crazy new ideas to seed that, hence the idea to donate Sheldon 
> and Chatterbox.
> 
> 
> -David
> 

Re: The road to TomEE 8

[Mark Struberg]

Perfectly fine. 
All I want to ensure is that we do not need to wait until we have really all 
parts.
We should be able to do Tomee8 releases even before. And that is imo only 
possible if we communicate clearly what is in there.

LieGrue,
strub

> Am 11.08.2017 um 10:46 schrieb Jean-Louis Monteiro :
> 
> Sounds reasonable to me
> 
> --
> Jean-Louis Monteiro
> http://twitter.com/jlouismonteiro
> http://www.tomitribe.com
> 
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 12:34 AM, David Blevins 
> wrote:
> 
>> I’m happy to see is get started with 8.0.0-SNAPSHOT now in a tomee8 branch.
>> 
>> As for 8.1, slight preference to delay that decision until we have some
>> insight as to what things look like compliance-wise.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> David Blevins
>> http://twitter.com/dblevins
>> http://www.tomitribe.com
>> 
>>> On Aug 8, 2017, at 12:20 PM, Mark Struberg 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi folks!
>>> 
>>> I'd love to start the tomee8 branch.
>>> There are a lot of components which are ready to go.
>>> 
>>> And I also had an idea about how we could very eagerly publish binaries
>> to play with.
>>> 
>>> I imagine to have 2 goals:
>>> 
>>> 1.) TomEE-8.0: this will be the 'development train'.
>>> It will contain JavaEE8 parts (mostly) and some JavaEE 7 parts still.
>>> We do not need to wait until we are fully EE8 compatible and certified,
>> we can just go on and publish this stuff as long as we CLEARLY state that
>> we are not yet fully EE8.
>>> 
>>> 2.) TomEE-8.1: once we reach full EE8 compatibility we switch over to
>> 8.1.
>>> 
>>> The main benefit of this approach is that we do not need to wait with
>> doing a release until all the features are EE8 but we can eagerly push
>> releases which are perfectly fine for people to use already.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Wdyt?
>>> 
>>> LieGrue,
>>> strub
>> 
>> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Code donations: Sheldon and Chatterbox

[David Blevins]

> On Aug 10, 2017, at 10:38 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau  
> wrote:
> 
> Interesting reasoning. What about tackling new specs - like mvc - which
> dont have yet a home at asf and would more inline with tomee and require
> more activity than "done" projects?

I’d be open to that.

Side note, there’s really still a ton of work to be done on Sheldon.


-David

Re: [DISCUSS] Code donations: Sheldon and Chatterbox

[David Blevins]

> On Aug 11, 2017, at 3:20 AM, Mark Struberg  wrote:
> 
> Reusable components make sense they are clearly distinctable. The part which 
> contains that reusable components imo must get a different brand name than 
> TomEE.

Sheldon would stay named Sheldon.  Chatterbox would stay named Chatterbox.  
They’d get their own JIRAs.  They’d just be hosted here on you could get to 
them via the tomee.apache.org website.

> The problem here is: TomEE does a really bad job in pointing out these ties! 
> If TomEE would kind of cumulate this progress and make it clear that this 
> makes it into TomEE, then it would be much clearer that there is no 
> standstill but actually tons of activity.

I think this is a great topic you should lead.


-David