Mike de Boer wrote:
* do_check_eq(a, b) —> equal(a, b)
There's also strictEqual(a, b) for those like me who were wondering.
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Brian Smith wrote:
On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Kyle Huey wrote:
We should get rid of RefPtr, just like we did the MFBT refcounting classes.
The main thing stopping a mechanical search and replace is that the two smart
pointers have different semantics around already_AddRefed/TemporaryR
I've landed the last bits of bug 514280 which will help to enforce this.
Examples:
nsCOMPtr runnable = new MyRunnable();
NS_DispatchToMainThread(runnable);
This now fails to compile in debug builds. For simple cases like this
just use nsCOMPtr here. For more complex cases (calling
non-inter
lukaszb wrote:
Basicly idea is easy from javascript we call "db wrapper" with take function (callback)
as argument (that function implement xpidl interface with scriptable and function annotations), in
"db wrapper" component we run thread where real database connection exists and fetch
data,
Birunthan Mohanathas wrote:
Note that due to technical details, the new macros will reject uses with zero
variadic arguments. In such cases, you will want to continue to use the
zero-numbered macro, e.g. NS_IMPL_ISUPPORTS0(nsFoo).
I can't help wondering who would need to implement only nsIS
Wesley Hardman wrote:
Shouldn't creating a file or directory, simply inherit the permissions from the
parent? That is what I would expect (at least on Windows) when saving a file.
Why would there be a need to explicitly set the permissions?
On Windows, permissions are calculated when a fi
Mike Hommey wrote:
mk_add_options "export MOZ_DEBUG_FLAGS=-Z7"
-Z7 is faster than -Zi?
Do VS2013 users need to turn off -FS?
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Kyle Huey wrote:
On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Neil wrote:
One of our compilers complains if you try to define something in a different
namespace to the one in which you declared it, so the NS_IMPL_ macros need to
be in the same namespace as the class.
I believe using declarations
L. David Baron wrote:
Classes that use the NS_IMPL_ISUPPORTSn or NS_IMPL_ADDREF + NS_IMPL_RELEASE
macros should use the fully qualified class name and not depend on being inside
namespace declarations.
One of our compilers complains if you try to define something in a
different namespace t
Henri Sivonen wrote:
I am not done preparing the removal patches yet, but with my current patch
queue I can already get 149 KB off of Android ARMv7 optimized apk size and 138
KB off of Android ARMv7 optimized libxul size.
What would be your opinion on the interim use of ifdef (or moz.build
e
Mike Hoye wrote:
the window-close button being right next to the send button in
Thunderbird turns into a real problem after your third coffee, let me
tell you.
Don't you mean before your third coffee?
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Frederik Braun wrote:
On 15.04.2014 00:43, Neil wrote:
Frederik Braun wrote:
A few months ago I had the idea to add a Content Security Policy (CSP) to our
internal pages, like about:newtab for example.
So this just applies to about: pages?
Primarily yes. I think some people are
xunxun wrote:
于 2014/4/15 星期二 6:46, Neil 写道:
xunxun wrote:
For example, I use the policy by default on my custom build:
pref("capability.policy.policynames", "pcxnojs");
pref("capability.policy.pcxnojs.sites", "http://nsclick.baidu.com";);
pref("
xunxun wrote:
For example, I use the policy by default on my custom build:
pref("capability.policy.policynames", "pcxnojs");
pref("capability.policy.pcxnojs.sites", "http://nsclick.baidu.com";);
pref("capability.policy.pcxnojs.javascript.enabled", "noAccess");
nsclick.baidu.com can cause firef
Frederik Braun wrote:
A few months ago I had the idea to add a Content Security Policy (CSP) to our
internal pages, like about:newtab for example.
So this just applies to about: pages?
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Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
On 2014-04-01, 8:10 PM, Martin Thomson wrote:
count_type tmp = --mRefCnt;
if (tmp == 0) {
delete this;
}
And how do we enforce people to write code like the above example
using the current Atomic interface?
Would WARN_UNUSED_RESULT help here, so that you remember t
Joshua Cranmer 🐧 wrote:
MOZ_ASSUME_UNREACHABLE_MARKER tells the compiler that this code and
everything after it can't be reached, so it need do anything. Clang
will delete the code after this branch and decide to not emit any
control flow.
I have found this to be unhelpful when debugging bec
Gregory Szorc wrote:
I have a patch at
https://hg.stage.mozaws.net/gecko-collab/rev/d6ea4c36aa65 that will
change the build system to measure different phases of compiler
execution. For each compile command, it essentially runs -E +
-fsyntax-only + -c as separate commands and measures the res
Boris Zbarsky wrote:
On 3/28/14 2:15 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote:
I'm concerned about this as well.
Is the concern the spew, or the performance of changing __proto__?
In practice, what gets slow with a changing __proto__ is property
access on the object, because the JS engine throws away type
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
For TenFourFox, I've often toyed with implementing switches for
box-shadow, blur, etc., so that people on the very low end of the spec
(we still support G3 Macintoshes) can turn these rather expensive
features off. I'd rather do that in a web-standard way than a one-off
L. David Baron wrote:
our string APIs (a bit about what the internal string APIs do and why and how
to use them)
I don't think we currently return terminated strings for string tail or
1-arg substring of a terminated string, I'm sure we could but there
doesn't seem to be a big demand for i
Karl Tomlinson wrote:
I'm not familiar with the "directory listing".
Try typing / or ftp.mozilla.org into the URL bar.
Is this something that would be expected to render reasonably, or does the RTL
test include large dimensions that may lead to overflows?
There appears to be no visible
I tried to push a patch which changes the DOM of the HTML directory
listing page but it tripped over this assertion while running an RTL test.
It seems to be something to do with the reflow caused by the loading of
the icons on an RTL directory listing page.
What's the next step here?
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Irving Reid wrote:
For unknown reasons, internal bookkeeping prefs used by AddonManager
and XPIProvider are set to values of the wrong type on some Firefox
profiles, and are now stuck that way. I can write wrapper code on
these calls to catch the error and clear the broken preference, but I
w
Bobby Holley wrote:
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 6:53 AM, Neil wrote:
Let's suppose that I want to provide a global property that provides 5
functions each with a number of string arguments. (Traditionally this would be
done using a component in the JavaScript global property category.
Boris Zbarsky wrote:
On 3/17/14 9:25 AM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
Do we not have a safe way now to expose objects and functions to
pages (all pages or some pages)?
We have a way that can be safe as long as you're really careful about
some things. e.g. if your API takes options objects, you
Boris Zbarsky wrote:
Do not add new JavaScript components with DOM_OBJECT classinfo
(period; I can't think of reasons this would be needed).
Not that I'm planning on adding any new components, but what
alternatives are there, particularly for non-core consumers?
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Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
Wanting faster debug builds is a good thing. I doubt that the subject
of this thread will give you those though. :-)
My suggestions: first, build with --enable-debug --enable-optimize.
If that is still slow enough, try profiling the build and see what
jumps at you as
Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
They key magic was that NS_DECLARE_STATIC_IID_ACCESSOR is specialized
on the type itself and not on a dummy class.
I had tried specialising on the type itself, but the way I originally
did it was only a link error rather than a compile error. I had also
tried templat
L. David Baron wrote:
On Friday 2014-03-07 01:32 +, Neil wrote:
I noticed a couple of places that queried for a concrete class which didn't
have its own IID, which means that you end up querying for the base interface
instead.
Does the solution we use for do_QueryFrame work
Because of the way GetIID/NS_GET_IID works, it's not very easy to get
the compiler to tell you when you're doing it wrong. So far I've come up
with a way to get the linker to do it. I'm trying to get the compiler to
do it, but the results aren't perfect. However along the way I have
noticed som
I've noticed seven moz.build files containing tabs, I assume this is
undesirable?
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Neil wrote:
Henri Sivonen wrote:
Any chance static atoms could reside as plain old static C data
structures in the data segment of libxul.so instead of being
heap-allocated?
At least under MSVC, they have vtables, so they need to be
constructed, so they're not static. Note that
Honza Bambas wrote:
The old API talks only to the old cache. It's now used for appcache
(Offline Application Cache) only.
The old API doesn't emulate the new API well enough; it actually ignores
failures to call onCacheEntryCheck, and reads uninitialised memory in
that case.
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Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
does fixing this enable you dogfood debug builds?
I'm not expecting it to be a magic bullet. Where do you suggest I start?
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http
Henri Sivonen wrote:
Any chance static atoms could reside as plain old static C data structures in
the data segment of libxul.so instead of being heap-allocated?
At least under MSVC, they have vtables, so they need to be constructed,
so they're not static. Note that their string storage is
Andreas Gal wrote:
Could we compress major parts of omni.ja en block? We could for example stick
all JS we load at startup into a zip with zero compression and then compress
that into an outer zip. I think we already support nested containers like that.
Assuming your math is correct even with
Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
On 2014-02-26, 4:52 AM, Neil wrote:
The one that I spotted is that MSVC is unable to optimise static
variables, e.g. when you write static const length =
ArrayLength(array); If you write this as a local then the compiler is
able to optimise it away in release builds
Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
On 2/23/14, 4:05 PM, Neil wrote:
Both ArrayLength and MOZ_ARRAY_LENGTH are typesafe when compiled as
C++, however ArrayLength has the disadvantage that it's not a
constant expression in MSVC. In unoptimised builds this is direly
slow as the templated function doe
Both ArrayLength and MOZ_ARRAY_LENGTH are typesafe when compiled as C++,
however ArrayLength has the disadvantage that it's not a constant
expression in MSVC. In unoptimised builds this is direly slow as the
templated function does not even get inlined, but even in optimised
builds the MSVC com
Joshua Cranmer wrote:
Justin Dolske wrote:
But really, the best way to fix this would be to use a macro:
err = SSLHashSHA1.update(&hashCtx, &foo);
SSL_ENSURE_SUCCESS(err, err);
err = SSLHashSHA1.update(&hashCtx, &bar);
SSL_ENSURE_SUCCESS(err, err);
err = SSLHashSHA1.update(&hashCtx,
Masayuki Nakano wrote:
nsDOMEvent will be just "Event".
Well, only if you're using the mozilla::dom namespace.
And also the header file name will be "Event.h".
Won't it be "mozilla/dom/Event.h" ?
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JoeS wrote:
I tried hacking the following into the tail end of msvc11.bat file in
mozilla-build:
Try setting MOZ_MAXWINSDK=70100
Alternatively, try installing the SDK 7.1 compilers and use the
msvc10.bat file. (You can still use the VS debugger.)
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Well, that was confusing.
The old contract ID was @mozilla.org/network/cache-service;1
The new contract ID is @mozilla.org/netwerk/cache-storage-service;1
Turns out that there are two differences, not one.
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Arpad Borsos wrote:
I updated my methodology for finding wasted bytes in
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=492185#c35.
It just sums up all the stuff that clangs `-Wpadded` warnings gives us.
njn suggested I post the complete list, so here goes. Feedback welcome.
What do the fracti
Erik Rose wrote:
One thing I did notice in passing is that DXR doesn't provide a count of
results like MXR does.
It's on our roadmap (https://wiki.mozilla.org/DXR_Roadmap#UI.2FUX) but a pretty
low priority atm. What's your use case, in case we should bump it up?
Also I tried looking up
Honza Bambas wrote:
On 2/19/2014 11:25 PM, Neil wrote:
In particular, the API calls I'm interested in:
1. Given an HTTP or FTP URI, return the size of the cached data
How do you do that now? Only way known to me (with the old cache is
visit of a cache device). We don't ha
Erik Rose wrote:
We've just added comm-central to DXR!
Great news!
One thing I did notice in passing is that DXR doesn't provide a count of
results like MXR does.
Also I tried looking up the callers of a constexpr function and got no
results. Is this because the compiler optimised them
Michal Novotny wrote:
On 02/19/2014 11:50 AM, Dao wrote:
On 19.02.2014 01:56, Neil wrote:
In particular, I understand that there is a preference to toggle the
cache. What does application code have to do in order to work with
whichever cache has been enabled?
Nothing? It's a diff
Honza Bambas wrote:
On 2/19/2014 1:56 AM, Neil wrote:
Where can I find documentation for the new necko cache? So far I've
only turned up some draft planning documents. In particular, I
understand that there is a preference to toggle the cache. What does
application code have to do in
Where can I find documentation for the new necko cache? So far I've only
turned up some draft planning documents. In particular, I understand
that there is a preference to toggle the cache. What does application
code have to do in order to work with whichever cache has been enabled?
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Edwin Flores wrote:
the "click here to view all search results" link
I wondered what this was, but it turns out I had disabled JavaScript in
that browser.
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Robert O'Callahan wrote:
asm.js code must go through Web platform APIs
So the preference would be an API that translates easily to canvas-2D?
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https:
Erik Rose wrote:
https://blog.mozilla.org/webdev/2014/02/07/dxr-gets-a-huge-ui-refresh/
Why are you double spacing the output and then "fixing" it by
hard-coding .7 line spacing for the source and 1.4 for the line numbers?
Also although most of your CSS uses classes, some of it uses
:firs
Bobby Holley wrote:
On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 7:15 PM, Anthony Jones wrote:
There is also some vagueness and inconsistency around:
bool
MyClass::MyFunction()
vs
bool MyClass::MyFunction()
I'm pretty sure the former is correct per Gecko style. Benjamin can confirm.
My understanding is th
Axel Hecht wrote:
On 1/24/14 9:30 AM, Neil wrote:
Since we're not allowed to move locale files on branches, is it
possible for a jar.mn to refer to locale files from another part of
the tree?
Yes, these days you can actually do that.
Look at what we're doing in mobile/andro
Axel Hecht wrote:
On 1/24/14 9:30 AM, Neil wrote:
Since we're not allowed to move locale files on branches, is it
possible for a jar.mn to refer to locale files from another part of
the tree?
Yes, these days you can actually do that.
Look at what we're doing in mobile/andro
Robert O'Callahan wrote:
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Neil wrote:
I have a vague memory of seeing either a m.d.platform or blog post mentioning
the use of transforms as an alternative to absolute or relative positioning, in
particular avoiding reflows by its use of layers.
Does
Since we're not allowed to move locale files on branches, is it possible
for a jar.mn to refer to locale files from another part of the tree?
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Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
On 1/22/2014, 7:02 PM, Neil wrote:
I noticed that mozilla::arrayLength compiles very inefficiently in
debug MSVC 2010 builds. Is there a way to mitigate this?
Would bug 963056 help?
Of course, but I didn't think of that idea until afterward.
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I noticed that mozilla::arrayLength compiles very inefficiently in debug
MSVC 2010 builds. Is there a way to mitigate this?
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I have a vague memory of seeing either a m.d.platform or blog post
mentioning the use of transforms as an alternative to absolute or
relative positioning, in particular avoiding reflows by its use of layers.
Does this apply to all transforms, in particular translate(0, 0)? Would
it therefore b
Henri Sivonen wrote:
On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 9:22 PM, Neil wrote:
Ah, but it makes a subtle difference to the way XHR works; from a server, it
will parse according to the MIME type, which was HTML in my case, but from a
file:// URL, it always parses in XML, even if the document would
Mike Hommey wrote:
I propose that we just stop pretending, and terminate xulrunner
How would this affect the ability to build Firefox against the sdk?
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Nicholas Nethercote wrote:
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 3:33 AM, Neil wrote:
Bug 514173 has landed, which makes use of the fact that code living in libxul
can reasonably assume that string constants have infinite lifetime, meaning
that any literal strings in libxul are shared rather than
Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
On 1/10/2014 12:19 AM, Daniel Holbert wrote:
Just to be clear -- does this mean we should strictly prefer
str.Assign(NS_LITERAL_STRING("foo")) over str.AssignLiteral("foo") now?
For wide strings, I'm pretty sure the pattern we want is
AssignLiteral(MOZ_UTF16("foo"))
Until today Gecko's support for string constants was quite poor. You
could create a literal string or a named literal string on the stack and
pass it to a method but any operation on the string ended up copying the
string. In effect a literal string was a dependent string whose length
was known
L. David Baron wrote:
On Wednesday 2014-01-08 19:22 +, Neil wrote:
I've tried switching to XHTML to avoid the problem, and the good news is that
my XHR now loads before the screenshot is taken. The bad news is that the test
still fails, as if the patch wasn't in place. I gu
Neil wrote:
XHR's XML parsing blocks onload but its HTML parsing does not.
Actually neither block onload, at least not the way I'm calling it,
although the site manages to, so I'm not sure what's going on there...
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Andrew Halberstadt wrote:
On 01/07/2014 07:23 PM, Neil wrote:
I tried to check in a reftest today. Apparently it fails on Android
and b2g. The failure mode appears to be that the reftest takes a
screenshot before the test has loaded (the page is still blank,
whereas it should have a red
Neil wrote:
I tried to check in a reftest today. Apparently it fails on Android
and b2g. The failure mode appears to be that the reftest takes a
screenshot before the test has loaded (the page is still blank,
whereas it should have a red square for failure or a green square for
success). Do
Blair McBride wrote:
I'd like to see the removal of the modelines also. A root config file
is much cleaner.
For the widest possible support of editors, I'd love to see a root
.editorconfig file. See http://editorconfig.org/ - it's an
editor-neutral config, with plugins for many editors/IDEs
Benoit Jacob wrote:
I'm scanning a function for possible early returns
Good thing you don't have to deal with C++ exceptions then.
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I tried to check in a reftest today. Apparently it fails on Android and
b2g. The failure mode appears to be that the reftest takes a screenshot
before the test has loaded (the page is still blank, whereas it should
have a red square for failure or a green square for success). Do
reftests execut
Martin Thomson wrote:
in JS, a case that I’ve encountered several times:
_classMethodName: function ReasonableClassName__classMethodName(argument1, argument2) {
I thought that our debugging story had improved sufficiently that we
didn't need these fake function names any more.
--
Benoit Jacob wrote:
I would like a random voice in favor of deprecating NS_ENSURE_* for the reason
that hiding control flow behind macros is IMO one of the most evil usage
patterns of macros.
So you're saying that
nsresult rv = Foo();
NS_ENSURE_SUCCESS(rv, rv);
is hiding the control flow o
Ms2ger wrote:
On 12/20/2013 10:55 AM, Neil wrote:
I thought that it was pretty clear which smart pointer to use:
That makes it quite clear it isn't clear:
nsCOMPtr - interfaces
nsRefPtr - concrete types
RefPtr - code imported from WebKit
HTH
MXR claims we have three types named R
Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
To be very specific, here's a number of examples of things which our
code base doesn't agree on:
1. Line endings
Which is probably the easiest and least controversial thing to check for.
I blame whoever it was who decided to include a vim that defaults to DOS
line endi
Brian Smith wrote:
In PSM, we created some scoped pointer wrapper types around NSS data structures
(ScopedNSSTypes.h), which are based on the MFBT scoped pointers. And,
consequently, PSM has standardized on MFBT smart pointers throughout the module
(there should be nsRefPtr in PSM, only RefPt
L. David Baron wrote:
const PRUnichar *comma = MOZ_UTF16(",");
In the case addressed by the referenced bug, the string was used in a
call to Append, which meant that this is still inefficient. The patch in
the bug fixed this by switching to appending a character rather than a
string.
If
Gregory Szorc wrote:
On 11/30/13, 11:16 AM, Gregory Szorc wrote:
On 11/30/13, 3:24 AM, smaug wrote:
(Before using unified mode I didn't have mem usage problems with gcc
and there was never any significant difference in build times
comparing to clang.)
I filed bug 944842 to have mach repor
Gregory Szorc wrote:
There are also plans to offer a build mode for non-Gecko developers
that downloads a pre-built libxul so these developers don't have to
spend many minutes building Gecko.
Isn't it already possible to build both Firefox and Thunderbird against
the libxul SDK?
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these days? I'm just reviewing a patch and it's using the old-style
NS_LITERAL_STRING("wide string here").get() pattern all over.
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Gabriele Svelto wrote:
Another common case of OOMs are people building inside a VM. Just
yesterday I helped another mozillian figure out why his FxOS build had
started to fail. It turned out he was building inside a VM with too
many jobs and too little memory dedicated to it.
I often build
Henri Sivonen wrote:
On Windows, do we really need to pay homage to the pre-NT legacy when doing Save As? How
about we just use UTF-8 for "HTML Page, complete" reserialization like on Mac?
You'll need a BOM, of course.
(MXR turns up so little that it makes me wonder non-UTF-8 support migh
Gregory Szorc wrote:
The best way to fetch it is to pull the bookmark tracking it:
$ hg pull -B gps/build/measure-compiler
http://hg.gregoryszorc.com/gecko-collab
Or, look for that bookmark at
http://hg.gregoryszorc.com/gecko-collab/bookmarks and track down the
changeset.
Note that for
Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
It's hard to say exactly what's going on here without knowing more
about how this build is produced.
These are intermittent failures on TBPL, mostly starred by philor.
It would be really great if you could file a bug about this with more
details on how to reproduce this
Zack Weinberg wrote:
On 2013-11-20 12:37 PM, Benoit Jacob wrote:
Talking about ideas for further extending the impact of
UNIFIED_SOURCES, it seems that the biggest limitation at the moment
is that sources can't be unified between different moz.build's.
Because of that, source directories tha
I was pinged because running the browser-chrome tests in chunks of three
makes a test that I reviewed fail by reporting an exception to the console.
So I was quite surprised to find all manner of junk seems to get
reported to the console in a typical test run, including such goodies as
"Refere
Boris Zbarsky wrote:
On 11/17/13 5:26 PM, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
I don't think that we need to try to fix this problem any more than
the general problem of denoting our dependencies explicitly. It's
common for you to remove an #include from a header and find dozens of
.cpp files in the tree t
Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
I've started to work on a project in my spare time to switch us to use unified
builds for C/C++ compilation. The way that unified builds work is by using the
UNIFIED_SOURCES instead of the SOURCES variable in moz.build files. With that,
the build system creates files su
Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
we go down from 1m51s on my machine to 31s
And how does that compare to the case where you touch one .cpp file in
each subdirectory of layout?
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Mike Hommey wrote:
Thunderbird is already linking stuff in libxul from c-c. Why wouldn't it be
possible to move those bits to c-c and do the same?
It's compiling components using the internal API and linking them into
libxul because originally the mailnews components didn't compile against
Gijs Kruitbosch wrote:
I don't have all my patches applied all the time. If I work on
something, leave it for 2 weeks, and qpush it again, I usually get to
do the "fix all the .rej" dance.
That's an interesting use case. If changeset evolution replaces mq you
could just leave the commit in y
Gijs Kruitbosch wrote:
On 03/11/13, 11:46 , Neil wrote:
14. Rebasing a bitrotted patch
14.0 What it looks like when you qpush a patch that has conflics
14.1 Open a rej file
14.2 Apply the change to the file
Shouldn't be necessary these days ;-)
Uh, why not?
hg pull --rebase wor
bbo...@gmail.com wrote:
1.4 Initiating an hg clone
You'll be lucky. You'll probably need to mention bundles.
2.0 Creating a .mozconfig file
Not strictly necessary for the very first build.
4.1 Setting up mercurial.ini info for patch options and author name
See also the mach co
Gregory Szorc wrote:
OK, so you run make, make.py, or mozmake to build the tree. Do you
ever perform partial tree builds? That is: |make -C dom| or |cd dom;
make|. If so, you may be impacted by a recent change to the build system.
If you attempt to perform a partial tree build directly with a
Matthew Gertner wrote:
The most flexible option might be an API to cause a window to opt out of
session saving completely.
Probably not relevant to you but on SeaMonkey the secret sauce to opting
out of session saving is to remove the windowtype attribute very early
on (onload handler is e
Mike Hommey wrote:
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 10:06:13AM +0100, Neil wrote:
David Rajchenbach-Teller wrote:
Wouldn't it be interesting to also have a ./mach build frontend that repackages
XUL and js code?
Does ./mach build chrome work?
make chrome/mach build chrome doesn
Matthew Gertner wrote:
What exactly do you mean by setting the window to have an app docShell? You mean load it
into a browser with type = "chrome"?
No, I meant an app frame, but Mark's reply led me to bug 799592 comment
1 where Shane Caraveo says that an app frame doesn't look like it would
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