Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Perhaps we can exercise restraint on doing a wholesale removal of the <10.9 code, as doing so could make uplifting to 48 and earlier more of a mess. Maybe in a few weeks? — - Milan > On May 31, 2016, at 11:16 , Benjamin Smedberg wrote: > > Yes. > > --BDS > > On

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Yes. --BDS On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Chris Pearce wrote: > So, given that users won't be able to install Firefox on unsupported > versions of MacOSX, and unsupported users won't be upgraded, can we proceed > to remove all the

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Yes, that's fine assuming it builds on try. Official builds will be happening on 10.7 for a while yet. -r On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Chris Pearce wrote: > So, given that users won't be able to install Firefox on unsupported > versions of MacOSX, and unsupported users

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

So, given that users won't be able to install Firefox on unsupported versions of MacOSX, and unsupported users won't be upgraded, can we proceed to remove all the nsCocoaFeatures::On[Mountain]LionOrLater() calls in Firefox 49 and just assume everywhere that MacOSX specific Gecko code is running on

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 3:37 PM, L. David Baron wrote: > There's a screenshot in: > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1255588#c8 (and #c9) > (which is the bug that made the necessary changes for the Mac OS X > support change in Firefox 49). Ah, that's great.

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Thursday 2016-05-26 15:21 -0700, Robert Strong wrote: > A google search on restricting the Mac version produced > LSMinimumSystemVersion and I found the following: > > http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/app/macbuild/Contents/Info.plist.in#208 > > I don't have a Mac so I

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Existing users should not be upgraded. The Mozilla website will use UA versions to redirect users on these versions to a SUMO page. If a user does end up downloading and attempting to the DMG, the minimum version is set in the app bundle and MacOS will show a warning saying that this application

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

A google search on restricting the Mac version produced LSMinimumSystemVersion and I found the following: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/app/macbuild/Contents/Info.plist.in#208 I don't have a Mac so I can't check what the behavior is. Robert On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 3:02

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

By design, dmg's don't do anything. There's no installer, just a container with the executable ready to run. Nils reported in the other thread that we just crash at launch time on 10.6, which is unfortunate. I'd hoped Apple would show a 'not supported on this version' dialog. We could including a

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Users won't get updated to an unsupported version and they will be notified that their system is no longer supported. The notification includes an url to a page for additional information. I'm not familiar with the Mac installer but since it is just a dmg I don't know if there is much that can be

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

I thought this was already asked and answered, but just to be clear. We are not going to make any changes to the ESR schedule or make Firefox 48 any kind of long-term release. The development costs of maintaining another branch are high, and not something we're willing to pay. --BDS On Tue, May

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 2:19 AM, Lawrence Mandel wrote: > On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Henrik Skupin wrote: > > > Mike Hommey wrote on 05/11/2016 05:06 AM: > > >> The post states "Mozilla will end support for Firefox on OS X 10.6, > > 10.7, > > >>

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Mike Hommey wrote on 05/11/2016 05:06 AM: >> The post states "Mozilla will end support for Firefox on OS X 10.6, 10.7, >> and 10.8 in August, 2016." This means that we will end support with the >> Firefox 48 release. i.e. Firefox 48 will not support OS X 10.6-10.8. > > That's why the post should

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

The actual content of the page is not final, but I did include that recommendation in my request for a SUMO page. See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1270221 --BDS On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 4:59 PM, Adam Roach wrote: > On 5/13/16 14:26, Ben Hearsum wrote: > >> I

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On 5/13/16 14:26, Ben Hearsum wrote: I intend to make sure that Beta/Release/ESR is configured in such a way that users get the most up to date release possible. Eg: serve 10.6-10.8 users the latest 48.0 point release, then give them a deprecation notice. Presumably, the deprecation notice

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

I didn't know we intended to drop support in 48. I just assumed 49 from reading the blog post and knowing that things were just landing in nightly. At this point, though, I don't want to do uplifts and would prefer that this ride the 49 train. --BDS On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 3:24 PM, Ben Hearsum

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Yes. The intention was 48.0. Given that that doesn't actually buy us anything at this point, dropping support in 49.0 is fine. Lawrence On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 3:24 PM, Ben Hearsum wrote: > Thanks for clarifying. It seems like the confusion came from the fact that > we

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

This was discussed in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269811#c7. It's technically possible to do, but it didn't seem worthwhile on Nightly and Aurora. I intend to make sure that Beta/Release/ESR is configured in such a way that users get the most up to date release possible.

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Thanks for clarifying. It seems like the confusion came from the fact that we had *intended* to drop support in 48.0, but it hadn't happened yet. And now we don't *intend* to drop support until 49.0? On 2016-05-13 02:55 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote: Right now the code to disable 10.6 has

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Nils, feel free to file a bug on this and cc bhearsum. I don't know how much work this would be. --BDS On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Nils Ohlmeier wrote: > > > On May 3, 2016, at 15:18, Adam Roach wrote: > > > > On 5/3/16 4:59 PM, Justin Dolske

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Right now the code to disable 10.6 has landed only on nightly/49, and other bits are still blocked (see bug 1270217) because our MacOS builders (not the testers) are still running MacOS 10.7. As of this point, I expect that Firefox 48 will still run on 10.6-10.8 and the first release to drop

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

> On May 10, 2016, at 19:58, Lawrence Mandel wrote: > > The post states "Mozilla will end support for Firefox on OS X 10.6, 10.7, > and 10.8 in August, 2016." This means that we will end support with the > Firefox 48 release. i.e. Firefox 48 will not support OS X 10.6-10.8.

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

> On May 3, 2016, at 15:18, Adam Roach wrote: > > On 5/3/16 4:59 PM, Justin Dolske wrote: >> On 5/3/16 12:21 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: >> >>> * The update server has been reconfigured to not serve Nightly updates to >>> 10.6-10.8 (bug 1269811) >> >> Are we going to be showing

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 8:07:05 PM UTC-7, Mike Hommey wrote: > On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 10:58:25PM -0400, Lawrence Mandel wrote: > > On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 6:43 AM, Xidorn Quan wrote: > > > > > On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 8:24 PM, Mike Hommey wrote: > > > > > > > On Fri, May 06, 2016 at

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 10:58:25PM -0400, Lawrence Mandel wrote: > On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 6:43 AM, Xidorn Quan wrote: > > > On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 8:24 PM, Mike Hommey wrote: > > > > > On Fri, May 06, 2016 at 06:01:12PM +1000, Xidorn Quan wrote: > > > >

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 6:43 AM, Xidorn Quan wrote: > On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 8:24 PM, Mike Hommey wrote: > > > On Fri, May 06, 2016 at 06:01:12PM +1000, Xidorn Quan wrote: > > > > > > It's Firefox 48, three versions after ESR 45, which is roughly halfway

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 8:24 PM, Mike Hommey wrote: > On Fri, May 06, 2016 at 06:01:12PM +1000, Xidorn Quan wrote: > > > > It's Firefox 48, three versions after ESR 45, which is roughly halfway > > before the next ESR. > > 48 is the first version that will *not* have 10.6-10.8

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Fri, May 06, 2016 at 06:01:12PM +1000, Xidorn Quan wrote: > On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Chris Peterson > wrote: > > > On 5/5/16 8:23 PM, sfbay.mapfi...@gmail.com wrote: > > > >> The best option, from my perspective (supporting a wide array of users, > >> OS

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Chris Peterson wrote: > On 5/5/16 8:23 PM, sfbay.mapfi...@gmail.com wrote: > >> The best option, from my perspective (supporting a wide array of users, >> OS versions, hardware), is to make the final 10.6-10.8 version be (or >> become) the

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On 5/5/16 8:23 PM, sfbay.mapfi...@gmail.com wrote: The best option, from my perspective (supporting a wide array of users, OS versions, hardware), is to make the final 10.6-10.8 version be (or become) the next ESR with a startup page providing them with the choice and action buttons/links.

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 8:32:26 PM UTC-7, Lawrence Mandel wrote: > On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Xidorn Quan wrote: > > > On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Lawrence Mandel wrote: > > > >> On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 6:56 PM, Mike Hommey wrote: > >> > >> > On Tue, May 03, 2016 at 05:18:17PM

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 8:23 PM, wrote: > On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 8:32:26 PM UTC-7, Lawrence Mandel wrote: > > On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Xidorn Quan > wrote: > > > > > On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Lawrence Mandel

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 8:32:26 PM UTC-7, Lawrence Mandel wrote: > On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Xidorn Quan wrote: > > > On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Lawrence Mandel > > wrote: > > > >> On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 6:56 PM, Mike Hommey

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 1:51 AM, Lawrence Mandel wrote: >> The blog post just says "August 2016". Firefox 48 is scheduled for >> release August 2. Can you confirm that means we can start removing >> 10.6-10.8 support in mozilla-central now, which will be Firefox 49? > > Yes.

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

This is the plan in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269811. I'll be doing this for Nightly users shortly (right now they're just getting no update if they're on yesterday's build), and we'll do it for other channels as well. On 2016-05-03 06:17 PM, Robert Strong wrote: App

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Xidorn Quan wrote: > On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Lawrence Mandel > wrote: > >> On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 6:56 PM, Mike Hommey wrote: >> >> > On Tue, May 03, 2016 at 05:18:17PM -0500, Adam Roach

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Lawrence Mandel wrote: > On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 6:56 PM, Mike Hommey wrote: > > > On Tue, May 03, 2016 at 05:18:17PM -0500, Adam Roach wrote: > > > On 5/3/16 4:59 PM, Justin Dolske wrote: > > > > On 5/3/16 12:21 PM, Gregory

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 6:56 PM, Mike Hommey wrote: > On Tue, May 03, 2016 at 05:18:17PM -0500, Adam Roach wrote: > > On 5/3/16 4:59 PM, Justin Dolske wrote: > > > On 5/3/16 12:21 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: > > > > > > > * The update server has been reconfigured to not serve

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Chris Peterson wrote: > On 5/3/16 3:11 AM, Xidorn Quan wrote: > >> > Then we should plan to drop Universal builds in the same release, >>> > because without supporting 10.6 or 32-bit NPAPI plugins, the 32-bit >>> half >>> > of the build is

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Tue, May 03, 2016 at 05:18:17PM -0500, Adam Roach wrote: > On 5/3/16 4:59 PM, Justin Dolske wrote: > > On 5/3/16 12:21 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: > > > > > * The update server has been reconfigured to not serve Nightly > > > updates to > > > 10.6-10.8 (bug 1269811) > > > > Are we going to be

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On 5/3/16 3:11 AM, Xidorn Quan wrote: > Then we should plan to drop Universal builds in the same release, > because without supporting 10.6 or 32-bit NPAPI plugins, the 32-bit half > of the build is just cruft. That doesn't mean we can't remove 32-bit NPAPI support on OS X sooner than 53.

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

It can be done with a one-off update mar file that includes the files that aren't included in an update. On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Adam Roach wrote: > On 5/3/16 4:59 PM, Justin Dolske wrote: > >> On 5/3/16 12:21 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: >> >> * The update server has been

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On 5/3/16 4:59 PM, Justin Dolske wrote: On 5/3/16 12:21 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: * The update server has been reconfigured to not serve Nightly updates to 10.6-10.8 (bug 1269811) Are we going to be showing some kind of notice to affected users upon Release? That is, if I'm a 10.6 user and

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

App update has the ability to show the user a message that the system is no longer supported based on the update.xml served by release engineering. Robert On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 2:59 PM, Justin Dolske wrote: > On 5/3/16 12:21 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: > > * The update server

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On 5/3/16 12:21 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: * The update server has been reconfigured to not serve Nightly updates to 10.6-10.8 (bug 1269811) Are we going to be showing some kind of notice to affected users upon Release? That is, if I'm a 10.6 user and I update to Firefox 48, at some point

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: > On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Lawrence Mandel > wrote: > >> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Ralph Giles wrote: >> >> > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Lawrence Mandel

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 7:48 PM, Ted Mielczarek wrote: > On Mon, May 2, 2016, at 08:26 PM, Chris Peterson wrote: > > We're tentatively planning to remove NPAPI support (for plugins other > > than Flash) in 53 because 52 is the next ESR. We'd like ESR 52 to > > support NPAPI

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Mon, May 2, 2016, at 08:26 PM, Chris Peterson wrote: > We're tentatively planning to remove NPAPI support (for plugins other > than Flash) in 53 because 52 is the next ESR. We'd like ESR 52 to > support NPAPI as a transition option for enterprise users that rely on > Java. Then we should

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On 5/2/16 5:18 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Chris Peterson wrote: On 5/2/16 4:10 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: So where does that leave us on Universal OS X builds? IIRC our blocker is the need to support 32-bit Silverlight in the plugin

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On 5/2/16 4:10 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: So where does that leave us on Universal OS X builds? IIRC our blocker is the need to support 32-bit Silverlight in the plugin container so various streaming services using it don't break. Where are we on that front? (Reminder: killing Universal OS X

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: > On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Lawrence Mandel > wrote: > >> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Ralph Giles wrote: >> >> > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Lawrence Mandel

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: > So this presumably means we can turn off automation running on 10.6-10.8 on > mozilla-central? I believe that will drastically increase our OS X > automation capacity... Yes, please. We can't take advantage of any of the

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Lawrence Mandel wrote: > On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Ralph Giles wrote: > > > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Lawrence Mandel > > wrote: > > > > > I had planned to update the thread after the post

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Ralph Giles wrote: > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Lawrence Mandel > wrote: > > > I had planned to update the thread after the post went live so that I had > > the link. Thank you for posting it. > > The blog post just

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Lawrence Mandel wrote: > I had planned to update the thread after the post went live so that I had > the link. Thank you for posting it. The blog post just says "August 2016". Firefox 48 is scheduled for release August 2. Can you confirm

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 1:37 AM, Mike Hommey wrote: > On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 12:38:37AM -0400, Kohei Yoshino wrote: > > Today's announcement from Mozilla: > > > https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2016/04/29/update-on-firefox-support-for-os-x/ > > > > The decision is fine

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 12:38:37AM -0400, Kohei Yoshino wrote: > Today's announcement from Mozilla: > https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2016/04/29/update-on-firefox-support-for-os-x/ > > The decision is fine but why don't they update this thread? (I know, Mozilla > is very bad at

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Hi Kohei, I had planned to update the thread after the post went live so that I had the link. Thank you for posting it. Lawrence On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 12:38 AM, Kohei Yoshino wrote: > Today's announcement from Mozilla: > >

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Today's announcement from Mozilla: https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2016/04/29/update-on-firefox-support-for-os-x/ The decision is fine but why don't they update this thread? (I know, Mozilla is very bad at communication.) -Kohei ___

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Release engineering is working on this decision, stay tuned. — - Milan > On Apr 19, 2016, at 12:02 , Nicolas Silva wrote: > > Re-re-ping. > Being able to use a more recent standard library would simplify a lot of > things on our end. For example updating 3rd party

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Re-re-ping. Being able to use a more recent standard library would simplify a lot of things on our end. For example updating 3rd party libraries such as skia, which depends on a modern stl, is a pain, and there are plenty of other examples. Cheers, Nical On Mon, Apr 4, 2016, at 07:33 PM,

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Doesn't hombrew provide a version of g++ that includes c++11 04.04.2016, 18:12, "Nathan Froyd" : > Re-ping on this thread. It would be really useful to have a decision > one way or the other for figuring out exactly how a C++11 STL on OS X > is going to work. > > -Nathan > >

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Re-ping on this thread. It would be really useful to have a decision one way or the other for figuring out exactly how a C++11 STL on OS X is going to work. -Nathan On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Ralph Giles wrote: > Discussion seems to have wound down. Is there a

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

zilla.com> Subject: Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 11:48 AM, <cecemi...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 12:04:03 PM UTC-6, Benjamin Smedberg wrote: >> > This is notice of an intent to deprecate support within Firefox for

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 11:48 AM, wrote: > On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 12:04:03 PM UTC-6, Benjamin Smedberg wrote: > > This is notice of an intent to deprecate support within Firefox for the > > following old versions of MacOS: 10.6, 10.7, and 10.8 > > > > The motivation

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 12:04:03 PM UTC-6, Benjamin Smedberg wrote: > This is notice of an intent to deprecate support within Firefox for the > following old versions of MacOS: 10.6, 10.7, and 10.8 > > The motivation for this change is that we have continued failures that > are specific

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Discussion seems to have wound down. Is there a decision on this? -r ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Saturday, March 12, 2016 at 8:59:20 AM UTC-8, Bobby Holley wrote: > On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 4:28 PM, Terrence Cole wrote: > > > We've had this conversation several times in the last few years and I think > > I've finally figured out why it has always felt subtly wrong. > >

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 8:51 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote: > > > On 3/12/2016 7:19 PM, Gabor Krizsanits wrote: > >> >> Seems like a tough decision for such a short time... There were some >> great >> points on both sides so far, but I'm missing the math. To evaluate the >>

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On 3/12/2016 7:19 PM, Gabor Krizsanits wrote: Seems like a tough decision for such a short time... There were some great points on both sides so far, but I'm missing the math. To evaluate the cost/benefit for a decision like this we should be able to estimate how much engineering time does it

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Anthony Jones wrote: > My understanding is that the reason people stick to 10.6 is because of > Rosetta[1] which offers PowerPC compatibility. I have a laptop on 10.6. The hardware can theoretically support newer OS X versions, and I've

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 04:28:50PM -0800, Terrence Cole wrote: > We've had this conversation several times in the last few years and I think > I've finally figured out why it has always felt subtly wrong. > > Our share of users on older platforms is disproportionally high compared to > the market

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

I don't think it's entirely unfair -- both sets of numbers have their place. OS X is an important platform, but it's also true that these older OS X releases represent a tiny portion of our overall userbase. For a few more data points... Back in Firefox 16 when we dropped 10.5 -- another

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

Mike Hommey wrote on 11.03.2016 01:52: >> Why can't we just not ship e10s to these users? We have a number of other >> populations we're not shipping to, at least for now. > > This is actually a sensible option. > A not-quite top-notch but up-to-date Firefox is still better than old > versions

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

My understanding is that the reason people stick to 10.6 is because of Rosetta[1] which offers PowerPC compatibility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_(software) Chrome is dropping support for these platforms so it seems like an opportunity to pick up some

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 7:03 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote: > This will affect approximately 1.2% of our current release population. > Here are the specific breakdowns by OS version: > > Seems like a tough decision for such a short time... There were some great points on

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 4:46 PM, Kyle Huey wrote: > On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 4:28 PM, Terrence Cole wrote: > > > We need to drop support for OSX 10.8 and Windows Vista yesterday, not > next > > year. We need to cut our losses and ship E10S while we're still

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 10:51 AM, Chris Hofmann wrote: > On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Benjamin Smedberg > wrote: > > > > > > > On 3/10/2016 5:25 PM, Mike Hommey wrote: > > > >> > >> It's unfair to mention those populations by percentage of the

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 4:28 PM, Terrence Cole wrote: > We need to drop support for OSX 10.8 and Windows Vista yesterday, not next > year. We need to cut our losses and ship E10S while we're still relevant. > We need to be the browser that works best on Android and Windows 10,

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 5:13 PM, Bobby Holley wrote: > > > On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 4:28 PM, Terrence Cole wrote: > >> We've had this conversation several times in the last few years and I >> think >> I've finally figured out why it has always felt

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 4:28 PM, Terrence Cole wrote: > We've had this conversation several times in the last few years and I think > I've finally figured out why it has always felt subtly wrong. > > Our share of users on older platforms is disproportionally high compared to >

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote: > > > On 3/10/2016 5:25 PM, Mike Hommey wrote: > >> >> It's unfair to mention those populations by percentage of the global >> Firefox population. >> > > Why do you think this is unfair? This is about making the

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote: > On 3/10/2016 5:25 PM, Mike Hommey wrote: >> It's unfair to mention those populations by percentage of the global >> Firefox population. > > Why do you think this is unfair? This is about making the best use of our

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

We've had this conversation several times in the last few years and I think I've finally figured out why it has always felt subtly wrong. Our share of users on older platforms is disproportionally high compared to the market in general because of our decline in market share. People who don't want

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 12:20:30PM -0500, Benjamin Smedberg wrote: > We intend to do the following things: > > * add version checking to the builds so that they refuse to run on these > versions of MacOS If we change the macos target version, that's not possible. The resulting binaries can't

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On 3/10/2016 5:25 PM, Mike Hommey wrote: It's unfair to mention those populations by percentage of the global Firefox population. Why do you think this is unfair? This is about making the best use of our limited engineering/testing/QA resources, and so what really matters is the total

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On 10/03/16 06:17 PM, Trevor Saunders wrote: > given they haven't upgraded from 10.6 - 10.8 why do you believe they are > likely to in the future? 1. their machine can die and they'll replace it with a new one that will come with the latest MacOS, and restore their data from a Time Machine

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

I'm not making any claims other than pointing out that the upgrade is possible for some users, and its a workaround we can give in SUMO. I have no other irons in this fire, just making sure we know the workarounds (and how accessible they are) is an important piece of this decision. As has been

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 07:49:26AM +0800, Kyle Huey wrote: > On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 2:03 AM, Benjamin Smedberg > wrote: > > > This is notice of an intent to deprecate support within Firefox for the > > following old versions of MacOS: 10.6, 10.7, and 10.8 > > > > The

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 2:03 AM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote: > This is notice of an intent to deprecate support within Firefox for the > following old versions of MacOS: 10.6, 10.7, and 10.8 > > The motivation for this change is that we have continued failures that are >

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

That brings up a point, if a user is on 10.8, gets moved to ESR 45, and later moves to 10.11, will they be stuck on ESR still? On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Tyler Downer wrote: > The other thing to note is many of those users can still update to 10.11, > and I imagine

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On 3/10/2016 6:38 PM, Nils Ohlmeier wrote: Excuse my ignorance, but what means “deprecate support” exactly? I’m only asking because of the opposing reply’s so far. I’m assuming it means we stop testing and building/releasing for these. Would it be a possible alternative to turn of the tests,

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

> On Mar 10, 2016, at 10:03, Benjamin Smedberg wrote: > > This is notice of an intent to deprecate support within Firefox for the > following old versions of MacOS: 10.6, 10.7, and 10.8 Excuse my ignorance, but what means “deprecate support” exactly? I’m only asking

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 05:20:41PM -0600, Syd Polk wrote: > I do, however, think that supporting 10.6 is a heavy, heavy burden, as its > C++ compiler is truly ancient. We build Firefox targetting 10.6 with a development version of clang 3.8 (that is, a clang build from a svn revision during the

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

10.6 is the last version with Rosetta. Given how old the machines are that can run 10.6, and given how old 10.6 itself is, it is highly likely that 10.6 customers still have PowerPC apps that they run and they cannot/will not upgrade. Also, the perception of the Mac community in general is

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On 3/10/16 5:17 PM, Trevor Saunders wrote: On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 04:01:15PM -0700, Tyler Downer wrote: The other thing to note is many of those users can still update to 10.11, and I imagine that over the next year that number will continue to go down. given they haven't upgraded from 10.6 -

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 04:01:15PM -0700, Tyler Downer wrote: > The other thing to note is many of those users can still update to 10.11, > and I imagine that over the next year that number will continue to go down. given they haven't upgraded from 10.6 - 10.8 why do you believe they are likely

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

On 3/10/2016 5:47 PM, Masatoshi Kimura wrote: Some fullscreen tests are enabled only on 10.6: https://dxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/tests/mochitest/chrome/chrome.ini#40 This proposal will virtually disable the fullscreen tests on OS X. |skip-if = os != 'mac' || os_version ==

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

The other thing to note is many of those users can still update to 10.11, and I imagine that over the next year that number will continue to go down. This also provides a decent workaround that our support community can recommend in documentation and the forums. On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 3:50 PM,

Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support

25% is pretty close for 10.6-10.8 combined. However, the current proposal includes security patches for nearly a year still (putting them on the ESR45 train), so construing this as abandoning those users seems like it's going a bit far. On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 5:25 PM, Mike Hommey

  1   2   >