Re: security problems [WAS: Intent to remove: sensor APIs]

2017-08-02 Thread Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
On 02.08.2017 15:53, Blair MacIntyre wrote: FWIW, I wouldn’t mind being involved in a discussion about this, > if people want to seriously consider putting it behind a > "user-permission prompt" (similar to geolocation) or "user-action requirement” I'd even go further and move it to an

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-08-02 Thread Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
On 02.08.2017 14:39, Blair MacIntyre wrote: It’s used for panoramic image viewing (orient the pano with the camera movement), and google street view uses it for similar motion control. Okay, why not adding a generic interface for controlling the virtual view direction ? So, the user/operator

Re: security problems [WAS: Intent to remove: sensor APIs]

2017-08-02 Thread Blair MacIntyre
> At least these things should be purely optional and providing an > *easy* way to filter that data. (same for the geolocation stuff). FWIW, I wouldn’t mind being involved in a discussion about this, if people want to seriously consider putting it behind a "user-permission prompt" (similar to

security problems [WAS: Intent to remove: sensor APIs]

2017-08-02 Thread Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
On 02.08.2017 14:29, Michael Hoye wrote: You need to dial this rhetoric back about 100%. It is not acceptable to bring even an implied accusation like that to a technical discussion, or indeed any conversation at all, at Mozilla. Who did I accuse of what exactly ? All I'd like to say here is

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-08-02 Thread Blair MacIntyre
> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Blair MacIntyre > wrote: >> Are we still talking about deviceorientation? > > As I said twice and Frederik repeated, we're not, other than asking if > anyone has a plan for how to make it interoperable. Yes, I know; I was just

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-08-02 Thread Anne van Kesteren
On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Blair MacIntyre wrote: > Are we still talking about deviceorientation? As I said twice and Frederik repeated, we're not, other than asking if anyone has a plan for how to make it interoperable. Note that it's far from a W3C standard:

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-08-02 Thread Blair MacIntyre
Are we still talking about deviceorientation? It’s used to determine the 3D orientation of the device, so that we can tell the direction it is facing. Developers use it to render 3D graphics (WebGL or CSS3D using perspective DIV) around the user. e.g., look at one of my project samples, like

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-08-02 Thread Michael Hoye
On Aug 2, 2017 15:54, "Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult" < enrico.weig...@gr13.net> wrote: Making that information visible to websites (even worse: movement tracking via g-sensor, etc), definitively looks like security nightmare which even the Stasi never dared dreaming of. You need to dial

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-08-02 Thread Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
On 02.08.2017 13:01, Salvador de la Puente wrote: I strongly encourage you to take a look at the telemetry stats regarding the usage of deviceorientation API and other. I don't know the penetration of proximity and ambient light APIs but deviceorientation is definitively used. Just curious:

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-08-02 Thread Frederik Braun
As mentioned in thread, we will not disable deviceorientation. Please see below. On 02.08.2017 15:01, Salvador de la Puente wrote: > I strongly encourage you to take a look at the telemetry stats regarding > the usage of deviceorientation API and other. I don't know the penetration > of proximity

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-08-02 Thread Salvador de la Puente
I strongly encourage you to take a look at the telemetry stats regarding the usage of deviceorientation API and other. I don't know the penetration of proximity and ambient light APIs but deviceorientation is definitively used. Please, consider twice before taking a final decision. El 31 jul.

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-07-31 Thread Anne van Kesteren
On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 6:11 PM, Anne van Kesteren wrote: > Please consider the request to remove device orientation retracted for > now. We'll still need to figure out some kind of long term plan for > that API though. WebVR building on it through libraries that abstract > away

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-07-24 Thread Blair MacIntyre
I’m not sure what you’re asking: I’ve been using the deviceorientation API like this for many years, as have plenty of other people.It’s absolutely needed. -- Blair MacIntyre Principal Research Scientist bmacint...@mozilla.com > On Jul 24, 2017, at 8:04

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-07-24 Thread Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
On 24.07.2017 20:46, Blair MacIntyre wrote: We are working on adding AR capabilities to the browser, and this will (similarly) > need to know device orientation. Please make sure, we can easily compile completely w/o that. --mtx ___ dev-platform

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-07-24 Thread Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
On 24.07.2017 20:43, Kearwood Kip Gilbert wrote: Please note that disabling the Device Orientation API will also effectively disable the “WebVR Polyfill”. The “WebVR Polyfill” is a javascript library that allows browser that otherwise don’t support VR (ie, Fennec) to use “Cardboard” VR

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-07-24 Thread Blair MacIntyre
On Jul 24, 2017, at 4:38 PM, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote: > > On 24.07.2017 15:07, Mike Hoye wrote: >> >> I have a sense that as AR gets richer and more nuanced that ambient > > Are we still talking about browsers ? Yes. There are plenty of websites

RE: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-07-24 Thread Kearwood Kip Gilbert
the orientation API is also essential for implementing things like “Google Goggle” or Yelp’s Monocle on the web platform. Cheers, - Kip From: Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult Sent: July 24, 2017 1:35 PM To: Ben Kelly; Anne van Kesteren Cc: dev-platform Subject: Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-07-24 Thread Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
On 24.07.2017 15:07, Mike Hoye wrote: I have a sense that as AR gets richer and more nuanced that ambient Are we still talking about browsers ? --mtx ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-07-24 Thread Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
On 24.07.2017 13:57, Ben Kelly wrote: > On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 5:10 AM, Anne van Kesteren wrote: > >> * Device orientation >> > > Isn't this one required to build a decent web experience on mobile for some > sites? Could you please define "decent web experience" ? Maybe

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-07-24 Thread Anne van Kesteren
Please consider the request to remove device orientation retracted for now. We'll still need to figure out some kind of long term plan for that API though. WebVR building on it through libraries that abstract away the browser incompatibilities will just make it harder to fix the underpinnings

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-07-24 Thread Blair MacIntyre
True, true. For example, if the ambient light sensing could deliver the kind of “estimation of ambient lighting” that Apple’s ARKit does, we could use that in rendering. But, one question will be: what of these capabilities should just be part of “WebAR”, and which can be used effectively

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-07-24 Thread Mike Hoye
I have a sense that as AR gets richer and more nuanced that ambient light and proximity sensing will become important as well, even if we're not there yet. - mhoye On 2017-07-24 10:39 AM, Blair MacIntyre wrote: I was just about to say the same thing. This API is essential for our AR work;

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-07-24 Thread Blair MacIntyre
I was just about to say the same thing. This API is essential for our AR work; the fact that Firefox is different than other browsers is problematic, but there are javascript libraries that help with it. Getting rid of it would be really bad. > On Jul 24, 2017, at 9:57 AM, Ben Kelly

Re: Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-07-24 Thread Ben Kelly
On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 5:10 AM, Anne van Kesteren wrote: > * Device orientation > Isn't this one required to build a decent web experience on mobile for some sites? It seems pretty common on mobile to adjust the UX based on whether the device is in portrait/landscape

Intent to remove: sensor APIs

2017-07-24 Thread Anne van Kesteren
As a follow-up to the Ambient Light Sensor API thread, which ended up not really concluding, I hereby suggest we remove the various sensor APIs from our code base. Flipping the preference first to make sure there's no undue impact on web content and quick reversal is possible and then removing the