Re: Submission to ct-logs of the final certificate when there is already a pre-certificate

2018-04-06 Thread Tim Shirley via dev-security-policy
That may well be the conclusion, that the benefits of total disclosure outweigh the costs in this type of scenario. I just wanted to point out that there IS a cost to at least consider. Yes, the certificate might have been seen in transmission between the CA and the customer, yes the customer

Re: Submission to ct-logs of the final certificate when there is already a pre-certificate

2018-04-06 Thread Alex Gaynor via dev-security-policy
I think (3) shouldn't be considered any different from (1) -- they're only meaningfully different if you make a lot of assumptions about how it's stored and transported at every point from when the HSM signs the TBS to the certificates final resting place (on someone's disk? in their email inbox?

Re: Submission to ct-logs of the final certificate when there is already a pre-certificate

2018-04-06 Thread Tim Shirley via dev-security-policy
#2 seems like an obvious "no" to me as, at that point, you're only compounding a mistake and making that mistake actually usable in the public PKI if you proceed to issue the certificate. In practice I can't imagine this scenario coming up much, but the policy shouldn't mandate doing this. I

Re: Submission to ct-logs of the final certificate when there is already a pre-certificate

2018-04-05 Thread Jakob Bohm via dev-security-policy
On 06/04/2018 03:04, Matt Palmer wrote: On Thu, Apr 05, 2018 at 09:05:07PM +0200, Jakob Bohm via dev-security-policy wrote: On 04/04/2018 04:27, Matt Palmer wrote: On Tue, Apr 03, 2018 at 01:49:58AM +0200, Jakob Bohm via dev-security-policy wrote: On 02/04/2018 18:26, Tom Delmas wrote:

Re: Submission to ct-logs of the final certificate when there is already a pre-certificate

2018-04-05 Thread Matt Palmer via dev-security-policy
On Thu, Apr 05, 2018 at 09:05:07PM +0200, Jakob Bohm via dev-security-policy wrote: > On 04/04/2018 04:27, Matt Palmer wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 03, 2018 at 01:49:58AM +0200, Jakob Bohm via > > dev-security-policy wrote: > > > On 02/04/2018 18:26, Tom Delmas wrote: > > > > Following the discussion

Re: Submission to ct-logs of the final certificate when there is already a pre-certificate

2018-04-05 Thread Alex Gaynor via dev-security-policy
There's two separable questions here: 1) Should CAs log final certificates after they issue a certificate with embedded SCTs: My answer, yes. 2) Should CAs issue final certificates if they discover they are misissued after logging the pre-certificate. The answers to (1) and (2) do not need to be

Re: Submission to ct-logs of the final certificate when there is already a pre-certificate

2018-04-03 Thread Matt Palmer via dev-security-policy
On Tue, Apr 03, 2018 at 01:49:58AM +0200, Jakob Bohm via dev-security-policy wrote: > On 02/04/2018 18:26, Tom Delmas wrote: > > Following the discussion on > > https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/non-logging-of-final-certificates/58394 > > > > What is the position of Mozilla about the

Re: Submission to ct-logs of the final certificate when there is already a pre-certificate

2018-04-02 Thread Jakob Bohm via dev-security-policy
On 02/04/2018 18:26, Tom Delmas wrote: Following the discussion on https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/non-logging-of-final-certificates/58394 What is the position of Mozilla about the submission to ct-logs of the final certificate when there is already a pre-certificate? As it helps

Re: Submission to ct-logs of the final certificate when there is already a pre-certificate

2018-04-02 Thread Alex Gaynor via dev-security-policy
Mozilla currently doesn't have any policy with respect to Certificate Transparency, so I think diving in on this particular point is putting the cart before the horse :-) Currently Firefox does not check/require SCT presence nor does the Mozilla root program require certificates to be logged.

Submission to ct-logs of the final certificate when there is already a pre-certificate

2018-04-02 Thread Tom Delmas via dev-security-policy
Following the discussion on https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/non-logging-of-final-certificates/58394 What is the position of Mozilla about the submission to ct-logs of the final certificate when there is already a pre-certificate? As it helps discover bugs (