Let me just address your listed questions for now:
What types of item metadata and content can be stored in a BibDB?
Pretty much anything I suppose. I think the initial focus ought to be
bibliographic entries and annotations related to them.
What are the types of
On Feb 23, 2005, at 4:21 PM, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
BTW, the above structure could lead to some interesting possiblities
around syndicating bibliographic data.
For those that may not know anything about Atom or syndicating:
You know RSS? You subscribe to weblogs and news sites and such, and
On Feb 24, 2005, at 12:32 AM, David Wilson wrote:
We would actually like to be able to use all the text formating
options, bold, italic, underlining, super and subscripts, as well as
I'd like to just add something an aside that I'll continue to harp on
to the OOo community:
On Feb 24, 2005, at 5:15 AM, Van-Couvering,EJ (pgr) wrote:
First, I take it from the design docs that we propose, in phase one,
to only allow access to OoBib from within OoWriter. I would like to
urge that we rethink that decision and somehow allow the database GUI
to be opened standalone. I
On Feb 25, 2005, at 9:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Any chance we can somehow consolidate the GUI discussion in a single
Perhaps, but in the meantime, the easiest solution is to do a
reply-all. We should try to maintain attribution in the quotes, though
(because sometimes hard to
Begin forwarded message:
From: Daniel Chudnov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: February 25, 2005 5:56:01 PM EST
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [unalog-general] dumb implementations of smart metadata
It might seem like unalog development has ground to a halt... in a
way, it has, with o significant
On Feb 28, 2005, at 2:19 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I see what you mean now. There are two separate issues here:
1) reference grouping
Another example to the above is that I often see articles where you
have a few different subdivisions in the reference list: for example,
James Howison wrote:
In addition to people wanting to change the style of the document we
should consider people wanting to extract references from the document.
Yes, we all want this.
So I'd love to see a format that carries all the information of the
citations by default, even if it doesn't
Since my platform is officially unsupported (um, Sun, how about getting
a clue on Mac support?), I've not had a chance to try it, but a public
beta was released last week for v2 of the suite. It includes xforms
support. Anyone played with it?
On Mar 6, 2005, at 9:37 AM, Matthias Basler wrote:
Not yet, but now that you mention the 2.0beta ...
I've been testing the latest versions and checkung Issuezilla. From
what I have
seen so far(!) I am not really glad with OOo2.0 yet - and I am not the
one. See f.e. the article and the
On Mar 6, 2005, at 12:43 PM, Matthias Basler wrote:
I'd be intersted to know why you think that, particularly, Python is so
important for OOo's future success.
Not Python per se, but dynamic languages widely used in the free
software world. Python is the most obvious example. Gotta make it
FYI, an excerpt of a conversation with David Carlisle; an expert in XML
and XSLT (and unicode, actually), as well as a person with a math
background (he's been involved with MathML):
For many titles, even mathematical titles, unicode plain text is
sufficient, you have greek and all the
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 02:33:51 -0500, Sweet Coffee
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Is there some way to make commercial/opensource bibliographic programs
plug into OO more easily?
Our proposal is to move to a plug-in based system, so yes.
I am also looking forward to the updated bibliographic program
On Apr 5, 2005, at 8:38 AM, Jozef Riha wrote:
if anyone knows a workaround - except for writing w/ no mistakes
- please let me know.
The ugly solution is to keep track of the mistakes and when you're
done, open up the XML document file and do a search-and-replace to fix
those that need fixing.
On Mar 30, 2005, at 6:17 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
alphabetize entries with numerals as if the numerals were spelled
Yeah, right. What a PITA.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands,
On May 21, 2005, at 9:23 PM, David Wilson wrote:
The point I am trying to get to is that the bibliography format should
generated from the information that the user has provided about the
rather than from the user first have to make a selection from a
list that is
List has been dead for awhile, so just a quick update.
David is away in the Outback for a long vacation. Before he left, he and
I rattled some cages at Sun out of sheer frustration with the lack of
communication we were getting about plans going forward. I've gotten a
Matthias Steffens wrote:
I would find it rather, uuhm, frustrating to see you (and the OOo
folks) move away from MODS. Especially since it was *you* who
convinced us to support it within our bibliographic applications.
However, could there be a solution where both formats go hand in
On Sep 29, 2005, at 1:51 PM, Dane Weber wrote:
As a user, I will be able to enter footnote, endnote, or inline
citations as I type. When I enter one of these citations, I can
either select a work from a database I have access to, or I can enter
the work myself.
How would you cite a
To go back to this from Martha:
The key issue for work vs. manifestation is content vs. container --
content always must be in a container to have a physical existence in
the real world! In addition, the definition of a work is subjective,
esoteric and controversial-- if I do a softcover, a
On Sep 30, 2005, at 3:56 AM, John Norvell wrote:
Thinking of being able to easily convert to the eventually released OO
bibliography component (which seems to be getting closer -- I've been
following this list and all your hard work for years now :-), what
would be the best in-the-meantime
BTW, there's a Mac developer that's been experimenting with a CSL GUI.
I blogged about it here:
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL
Some background on some of the discussions we've been having recently
(and a hint of why things are sometimes slow!). Below is a note I sent
earlier today to some of the Sun developers working on SW, XML and
OpenDocument. Unfortunately, I learned yesterday that Daniel
(Vogelheim) recently left
James Howison wrote:
One option would be to keep the database linkage in the record and at
'styling' time (ie when the record is converted to text) to allow it to
hit the database if possible and look for changes, then prompt the user
if they want to have those changes apply to the current
For those of you doing any work with Python, could you perhaps update
me on the status of the Python support in OOo, particularly with
respect to the UNO bridge? Rob has reported it was basically unusable
awhile back. Am just wondering if that has improved with 2.0, or if we
need to do some
On 10/15/05, Robert Sanderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
3) Importing binary packages often failed, even if they were
distributed with the OOo python (eg socket, regular expressions, etc)
Joerg's response was: The std library is not my problem.
I've been learning that the not my problem
FYI, I'm at a library IT conference, where I was invited to speak. I
talked about this project and how we're trying to shape larger
discussions about metadata in OOo and OpenDocument.
On 10/20/05, James Howison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm coming around to the view that notes should probably be their own
How about just objects?
linked to the publication they are commenting on. That
just seems much more flexible to me. Then you could include the link
Just a quick note (am in a hurry) that this is interesting Peter.
It's similar to my blog post about distributed citation processing
from a little while ago. This does get at the issue of thinking
On 10/27/05, pt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've been working on a technical
I meant this:
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
As a former disgruntled Endnote user, I can tell you our goal is to
produce something better. And while we are working on making it very
easy for third-parties to plug-in (including commercial products), I
wouldn't want us to waste meager resources on doing work that ISI
I'm not sure if it's premature or not, but one of the Sun developers
setup a workspace for us to do prototyping and such.
If anyone wants access, please send me your OOo name ASAP.
I feel like we still need to wait on Sun to do the big addition of
allowing saving and loading of custom
A followup to my post the other day about access to cvs for prototyping:
It seems that what the Sun developer in question has in mind is to
actually prototype adding support for the new citation coding that has
been approved for OpenDocument, which is really at the center of what
we need to
On Nov 20, 2005, at 4:47 PM, David Wilson wrote:
I have now just realised that this means that not only do users need
able to specify the groupings for the bibliography (primary and
and any others) but that user needs to be able to specify which group
On Nov 20, 2005, at 5:43 PM, David Wilson wrote:
On first glance, you are telling me that we must force users to assign
each citation to a group (if they need this sort of formatting at
least), and therefore the internal coding must be able to store this
(it cannot yet in the OD proposal).
OK, I've not gotten any feedback but David's, so I'll just go with
what I've concluded from that. Since I've got a few days break, I'll
whip up a draft of the revised schema and some examples.
To unsubscribe, e-mail:
I just came across the CiteIt! legal citattion application, which does
among other things auto TOA generation. Demo is here:
So it seems to me this is more TOC territory than citation/reference
list, though there's clearly overlap.
On Nov 25, 2005, at 3:12 PM, David Wilson wrote:
In any of these groups the user should be able to select the sort
date / date, name etc.
Hmm ... I'm finding myself really not liking this idea. It adds
significant complexity all around (XML, processing code, GUI), for what
On Nov 26, 2005, at 4:04 PM, David Wilson wrote:
my style guide tells me that 2 levels are sometimes appropriate because
they give this example -
Let me think about more then.
Maybe it is a future enhancement ?
On 11/25/05, Matej Cepl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
Some examples of how it does look
* http://www.lambdalegal.org/binary-data/LAMBDA_PDF/pdf/357.pdf (see page
For future reference, this is *exactly* the kind of thing I need when
considering this stuff. Thanks
On Nov 27, 2005, at 2:31 PM, Matej Cepl wrote:
What do you need to do this? Pretty much just a validating XML editor
that will handle RELAX NG. I recommend both the emacs nxml mode, and
the commercial Java application oXygen. It's essential that you
validate what you do against the schema.
On Dec 4, 2005, at 4:20 PM, David Wilson wrote:
On Monday 05 December 2005 12:06 am, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
Two quick things David:
1) I think it'd be helpful to have these sorts of documents as a
so it's easier and quicker to revise. Do we have that available to
Yes, we have
On Dec 4, 2005, at 7:14 PM, CPHennessy wrote:
What I would suggest to help any newcomer is to provide an example of
XML in the contents.xml file would look like, highlighting the
bib:biblioref, bib:citation-source and other relevant elements.
I agree. I think we can
On Dec 5, 2005, at 9:04 AM, Sebastian Hammer wrote:
SRW doesn't have a lot of traction -- the SOAP substrate is inherently
more complex, and frankly it is non-trivial to produce a WSDL that can
be ingested by any SOAP engine *and* produce interoperable code.
Yes. Maybe the LoC will apply
Rob Sanderson wrote:
I wouldn't like to say that Xml Schema doesn't have a lot of
Hmm ... true, though from what I can tell, mostly from marketing people.
OTOH, how many of the free software tools do you use that have out-of
-box support for XML Schema? And even industry
Latest version of CSL, with the APA version. It's about 30 percent
more compact, and adds more features.
?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8?
citationstyle xmlns=http://purl.org/NET/xbiblio/csl; xml:lang=en
titleAmerican Psychological Association/title
On 12/10/05, CPHennessy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Nice work. Can you also update it to add something relevant to my
Yes, forgot to mention that we're working on the second one. I think
I addressed your first point. If not, tell me what I'm missing.
On Dec 13, 2005, at 7:20 PM, CPHennessy wrote:
There seems to be a flowchart missing in section Backwards and
Compatability - A suggested approach is illustrated in this
I confess I sort of glossed over that section, as David has been
thinking about that
OK, CPH, per request Florian Reuter has posted something on his blog
about how to code this stuff:
Seems like he's planning followup posts.
If anything unclear, perhaps you could post a comment?
I want to emphasize that it's
Hi All (and happy holidays),
I've been playing again with Ruby, trying to think through some
details, and also seeing if I can do anything useful with Rails.
Anyway, it occurs to me that it's rather easier for me to think in
terms of oo or rdf classes and such, than in terms of SQL schemas
A quick head's up:
I'm now officially a member of the OASIS OpenDocument TC. This has two
1) I can contribute to discussions on the evolution of the format
2) I can introduce new enhancement proposals
I have two very targeted goals for being on the TC, both of which are
On Dec 31, 2005, at 8:19 PM, David Wilson wrote:
One aspect that you might consider raising at the TC to support
metadata' is enhanced copy, cut and paste functions.
That's really an implementation issue for application developers (e.g.
OOo). That said, this would be helped
On Jan 1, 2006, at 1:03 AM, David Wilson wrote:
That's really an implementation issue for application developers (e.g.
OOo). That said, this would be helped if ODF supported metadata for
document parts (citation metadata, etc.).
By 'document parts' carrying thier metadata do you includein
On Jan 2, 2006, at 2:46 AM, Felipe Csaszar wrote:
I only have one disagreement regarding the design of the system. I
believe your system would be much more powerful, simpler, and useful
if it sticks to the Bibtex file format rather than implementing a new
Thanks for your
On Jan 11, 2006, at 4:05 PM, Morten Omholt Alver wrote:
I'm moving this over to the dev list.
I manage the bibliography manager project JabRef
(http://jabref.sf.net). One of our most-requested features is
interoperability with Openoffice, and I really want to do
On Jan 14, 2006, at 9:54 AM, CPHennessy wrote:
However the two examples I have for the cite info differ a bit:
OK, I just looked at this. David's example is this:
On Jan 14, 2006, at 12:42 PM, Robby Stephenson wrote:
There are pros and cons to each approach (one of the strengths of 1 is
that it could lead to compatibility between Word and Writer, because
CSL would certainly be used in both), and I have no strong opinion.
One issue I see with 1) is
On Jan 14, 2006, at 12:03 PM, Robby Stephenson wrote:
If citeproc were written in c++, and presumably became part of the OOo
codebase, what happens to the style files, like apa-en.csl, etc.? Do
become part of every OOo installation?
I see two options:
1) what you're
Compact with comments (probably easier to
# Citation schema copyright Bruce D'Arcus, based on related work
# for DocBook with Peter Flynn and Markus Hoenicka, and for OpenOffice
# with Daniel Vogelheim. It has been approved by the OASIS OpenOffice
# TC for inclusion in the open file
On Jan 16, 2006, at 6:38 PM, CPHennessy wrote:
Ok, I think that I have implemented almost everthing necessary for
new cite: elements and attributes. I compiles and parses the supplied
Now I am waiting on feedback from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to understand how
Any feedback? This ought to be of relevance to us.
-- Forwarded message --
From: Martin Hollmichel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Jan 17, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: [project leads] Modularization of the code
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In the Community Council we discussed briefly that a
Just some notes really ...
On Jan 17, 2006, at 6:10 PM, David Wilson wrote:
To make this easily usable we need to modify (or make new versions) of
I'm trying to find the source code for these,
FYI, I've been saying for awhile we need a solid bibliograpic data
model for citations, and finally just decided to write one myself.
Start of the documented version of an RDF ontology is here:
I've just decided to model the basic classes;
On Jan 28, 2006, at 4:56 AM, Matthias Basler wrote:
Just some quick comments:
1. I am missings handbook/manual in your type list. And when you're
at it, you
could add painting as well... and RSS feed?
In the end you'll have to acknowledge that new types of documents may
I, with some help from David, have been playing with porting citeproc
to Ruby. I also experimented a bit with Python, but I'm not much of a
programmer and so need all the help I can get, and Ruby is more
intuitive to me.
Anyway, the stage where I'm at is that this simple method call:
On Jan 28, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
I really don't care whether it's Python or Ruby, since both are
object-oriented, and both are easy to read.
At any rate, ultimately I'd like to see both citeproc-rb (think a
module that could be included trivially in rails apps for example
On 1/27/06, Bruce D'Arcus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Start of the documented version of an RDF ontology is here:
I decided to move it here:
On 1/28/06, jper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would like to join. I work at the Library of Congress and I am interested
in supporting you project.
Welcome aboard. Tell us more about your interests and skills.
I'm now looking through the existing bib API documentation to see what
we might be able to retain for the bib project, and what would need to
Some quick thoughts:
1) Reference types
One thing we could do is propose to change this to use my class list:
On Jan 29, 2006, at 6:20 PM, pt wrote:
One thing that particularly concerns me is Word to OpenDocument
interchange (both directions). My experience in our practical
courseware publishing project is that we have to work at the level of
standardised style names to interchange documents (this
On Jan 29, 2006, at 10:32 PM, Edward Summers wrote:
Bruce, I'm interested in helping out with this. I'm pretty familiar
with both ruby and python but I don't have a good grasp on what
exactly you want to do. Assuming the library existed could you flesh
out how it would be used
On Jan 30, 2006, at 8:31 AM, Edward Summers wrote:
Heh, doesn't look like you need much help from me for programming :-)
Well, I did have help with some of the hard stuff. I had no clue how to
do the grouping and sorting stuff for the author-date class!
Still, I think it bears repeating
OK, here's a simple unit test that passes:
#! /usr/bin/env ruby
class TestReference Test::Unit::TestCase
:creator = [Doe, Jane, Jane Doe],
:title = Some title,
:year = 1999,
On Jan 30, 2006, at 12:08 PM, Ed Summers wrote:
Yep, write tests for the code that doesn't exist and run them and
watch them fail. Then start filling in the code until you can get
tests to start passing. When all the tests pass you're done!
Yes, but how find-grained do you get? Take a method
On 1/30/06, Ed Summers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You typically want to test how a user will want to use your library.
You don't want to write tests for internal stuff. If there are a
sequence of interpendent events that need to be tested I tend to
bundle them in an individual test method.
On Jan 30, 2006, at 5:35 PM, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
new (load external CSL file and create object)
OK, here's a start; sorry, just easier for me to think in Ruby. Feel
free to jump in and translate to Python if you want. I'm posting this
step by step just to make
Thanks for hanging with this.
On 1/30/06, CPHennessy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm obviously not asking the right questions of the developers on the SW
project (or it is possible that they are not listening).
It's probably a little of both. We have consistently had
On Jan 30, 2006, at 11:06 PM, David Wilson wrote:
Following some help from Caolan McNamara
UNO: The writer UNO interface is typically implemented in
sw/source/core/unocore . That is a useful directory to see how UNO
gets mapped to it's core writer implementation. e.g.
On Peter's point about parsing and serializing RDF: the discussion on
metadata at the TC is still up in the air, but it's occurred to me that
if we use a constrained RDF/XML, and consistently identify things with
URI's, then it should be easy to map back-and-forth to objects even
I'm trying to get the python and ruby citeproc ports setup enough that
they can be put in CVS. I wonder if people have thoughts on how to
structure the code?
Right now I pretty much have a single module: CiteProc. That contains
the classes for both the citation metadata (Reference, Agent,
On 2/6/06, Jeffrey Lewis - UMDNJ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Im curious where the bibliography things are in development. Im curious
if there has been consideration into using a format similar to bibtex
for latex which specifies the fields for a given type of reference and
will format it based
On Feb 8, 2006, at 6:12 PM, Johan Kool wrote:
Focus on getting it easily readable for your own parser, as well as
the human eye. If it works for that, it works for a GUI too.
OK, then, I think that's settled.
The final issue is about the prefix/suffix thing. Should they be plain
On Feb 9, 2006, at 4:37 AM, Matthias Basler wrote:
I'd definitely prefer the version below, for exactly this reason.
OK, then, I modified the schema and wrote an XSLT to mostly convert the
For now I've put it all here:
On Feb 10, 2006, at 8:24 AM, Matthias Basler wrote:
Yes, abbreviations for journal names are quite common. Implementation
be very difficult. In a simple case each user can him/herself define a
replacement (or alias) list
(i.e. Journal of Climatology - J. Clim.)
that can be switched
On Feb 13, 2006, at 4:07 AM, Matthias Basler wrote:
I don't believe it to work in reality because styles are not necessary
by an area of science, but often (also or only) by an institution or
If your intention is to ease looking up a style in a GUI I'd recomment
On Mar 1, 2006, at 5:01 PM, Matt Price wrote:
I guess where I want to go is to get rid of Endnote, and have a script
within Word and OOo that allows formatting of references from web
sources. Clearly that'll take some work though.
That sounds great -- though my preference would not be to get
So if we take this:
On Mar 1, 2006, at 2:58 AM, Oliver Specht wrote:
This sounds quite interesting, is there already an example to play
with (even if it is another element)?
No, there isn't any example yet.
... and this (confusing, but the levels are
On Mar 2, 2006, at 7:49 PM, CPHennessy wrote:
OK, I now have some code using the DomBuilder (used in XForms) so that
I can parse and store the Citation in a DOM.
Now *all* I need to do is to properly associate this with a
Bibliography text field, and at a minimum to hook the
On Mar 25, 2006, at 9:09 AM, CPHennessy wrote:
The following two questions about the Citations which you can answer
to make it clearer for me :
1 - currently the idea about citations is that the complete citation
everywhere it is needed (e.g. it could be more than once thru
On Mar 25, 2006, at 10:33 AM, CPHennessy wrote:
In the new approach, those five citations each point to the same --
single -- metadata record, which is moved out of the content file into
its own dedicated file.
Ah, now this was not clear to me.
But the example docs you gave me
On Mar 25, 2006, at 10:11 PM, David Wilson wrote:
There is the case where some styles have a first (more detailed) and
subsequent (less detailed) format for citations.
Right, but that's a global issue. The citation code that CPH is working
on need not understand that.
It is important for
On Mar 25, 2006, at 11:11 PM, David Wilson wrote:
Some time ago, some one, it might have been CPHennessy, asked about
bibliographic table (reference table) generation and if the current
could work with the new Citeproc formating process.
I find worrying about the GUI at this
On 3/27/06, David Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I assume to refers to the Bibliography xml structure which defines the
Bibliographic Tables' data fields, their order and their character formating
and punctuation between the fields. This structure is only indirectly
On Mar 30, 2006, at 5:41 PM, Matt Price wrote:
Also very nice to have the Functional Requirements page up. I wonder
though whether it might not be a good idea to start prioritizing all
I agree. I think we need to first clean up the formatting, and then
work at streamlining
On 3/30/06, Matt Price [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My interest in porting citeproc to other languages is to prototype
this, and gain the experience we need to figure out how best to do
can you expand on this? e.g. would it be helpful if I tried to work
up a python port (this will
I just went through and added comments throughout the requirements. I
do think it still could use a fair bit of editing and maybe
reorganization. I feel like we need to cut it down by about 50%, which
mostly means consolidating and sharpening.
It strikes me some of the requirements are in
On Apr 4, 2006, at 3:46 PM, Matt Price wrote:
Seems to me it would be useful to define several targets --
say minimal, intermediate, and polished and lay out what needs to
be done for each.
Minimal Bibliographic Interface
Target Goals: Allow expert users to insert useful citations
On Apr 4, 2006, at 9:58 PM, Matt Price wrote:
ah. that's really excellent, thank you. This also pointed me to
wiki/Bibliographic_Document_XML_Format which I had skimmed over
before, but is now much clearer to me.
FYI, I just changed the bib example to reflect the current direction of
On Apr 5, 2006, at 11:50 AM, Matt Price wrote:
should it be a little more extensive here? so for instnace: I am
extremely disorganized, and in the absence of a satisfactory
bibliogrpahic solution have dealt with various bibs in the last few
years. On one paper I use one bib, for another
On Apr 5, 2006, at 2:24 PM, Matthias Steffens wrote:
However, when I'm writing a paper, 95% of the cited references do
already exist in my bibliographic database and I want to use these
(and not a copy from somewhere else) since I know that I've verified
my own entries for correctness
1 - 100 of 192 matches
Mail list logo