Is there an easy place to get up to speed on all the ASF terms? Infra
Karma, apmail, etc... I feel behind on understanding what is being talked
On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 12:31 PM Michael Kjellman <
> Thank you Chris.
> I have just replied to
+1 to epaxos
On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:40 AM, Jonathan Haddad wrote:
> epaxos would be nice, it's been about 2 years since it was started, and
> Blake asked for a first review well over a year ago. the benchmarks and
> thorough test suite look like a huge improvement over
There has been a lot of discussions about diversity and getting new
contributors and I think this aspect should be kept in mind as well when
talking about a roadmap, additionally to the listed tickets that are
already in the pipeline. What can inspiring developers contribute to 4.0
that would move
On 2016-11-04 14:52 (-0400), Jeff Beck wrote:
> Is there an easy place to get up to speed on all the ASF terms?
> Infra Karma, apmail, etc... I feel behind on understanding what is
> being talked about here.
Sure. Jake sent the glossary, but there are some other good
- ... we are arguing whether to f'ing moderate it through. Wow. Great
- Do you think it's healthy to send emails trying to talk shit instead
- ... project? Or is Twitter the official list now? Go ahead, I'll wait.
Given your behavior and rhetoric on this thread, I
Sorry that you feel that way. I’m happy to be the villain when it comes to
those same ideals you cite regarding Apache in your below thread. You see I’ve
around since 2004 and elected by the membership to the Board for the last three
based on merit, and
It seems that your tactic of argument is to discredit me at every level in
order to show your superiority of sorts. Let me set this straight, I am not
attempting to say that I am an authority on ASF or that I know how things
should be run. I also was not attempting to vilify you in front of
This link should help a little
On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:52 PM, Jeff Beck wrote:
> Is there an easy place to get up to speed on all the ASF terms? Infra
> Karma, apmail, etc... I feel behind on understanding what is
epaxos would be nice, it's been about 2 years since it was started, and
Blake asked for a first review well over a year ago. the benchmarks and
thorough test suite look like a huge improvement over the current situation.
On Fri, Nov 4, 2016
I’m sure that impactful, important, and/or potentially destabilising patches
will continue getting reviewed
by those engineers.
As for patches that no organisation with a strong enough commercial interest
cares about, they probably won’t.
Engineering time is quite expensive, most employers are
"There is also the issue of specialisation. Very few people can be trusted
with review of arbitrary
Cassandra patches. I can count them all on fingers of one hand."
I have to strongly disagree here. The Cassandra issue tracker is over
12000 tickets. I do not think that cassandra has added 12000
Thank you very much for bringing this up. I moved this to a new thread
because, though closely related, I think it is a very important
discussion to have on it's own as it does have a big impact.
On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Stefan Podkowinski
To be clear, getting the community more involved is a super hard,
critically important problem to which I don't have a concrete answer
other than I'm going to keep reaching out for opinions, ideas and
Just like this.
Please speak up here if you have ideas on how this could work.
This has always been a concern. We’ve always had a backlog on unreviewed
Reviews (real reviews, not rubber-stamping a +1 formally) are real work, often
taking as much work
as creating the patch in question. And taking as much expertise (or more).
It’s also not ‘fun’ and doesn’t lend
Dunno. A sneaky correctness or data corruption bug. A performance regression.
Or something that can take a node/cluster down.
Of course no process is bullet-proof. The purpose of review is to minimise the
odds of such a thing happening.
I’m sure users running Cassandra in production would
Sigh - sorry about breaking threading, the In-Reply-To header apparently
didn't get set when using "reply via your own mail client" from
lists.a.o. Luckily, it runs code from the Apache Pony Mail podling, so
hopefully we can fix it ourselves!
I run the local Cassandra User Group and I would love to help get the
community more involved. I would propose holding a night to add patches to
Cassandra some will be simple things like making sure some asserts have
proper messages with them etc, but some may be slightly larger. The goal
Thank you for sending this. I am not going to reply in depth now, but will do
so to Kelly and
others over the weekend, but this is *precisely* the reason that I have been so
about trying to get the PMC to see the road they have already gone done and the
has already set sail.
This discussion is bundling up two issues:
1) Did DataStax have an outsized role on the project which needed to be
offset, preferably with increased participation?
2) Did the Board behave reasonably in trying to fix it?
As far as I can tell the answers are 1) Yes, 2) No
Can the board please
You got this one completely wrong, my friend.
It’s the PMC who reached out to stratio and helped them get the changes they
required into Cassandra,
so that they could abandon the fork.
I know because I was that PMC member.
cc Andres from Stratio
On 5 November 2016 at 00:14:42, Chris
You know you've linked to a PMC page, when the board isn't a PMC? For
example, board member a, thinks project X isn't doing things correctly and
their first course of action is to post notes on a public development
mailing list? You'd have arguments and flame wars left right and centre.
Note also the work on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-9459 ,
reaching out to other “competitors” before major versions to ensure
compatibility and awareness.
I think there’s a ton of evidence supporting the assertion that
datastax-employed committers and PMC members acted in
I feel myself a bit called to table by both Kelly and Chris. Thing is I don’t
know personally nor have any relationship with both of you. I’m not even ASF
member. My tweet was simply reaction for Kelly complaints about ASF punishing
out DataStax. Kelly timeline also contained
"I’m sure users running Cassandra in production would prefer actual proper
reviews to non-review +1s."
Again, you are implying that only you can do a proper job.
Lets be specific here: You and I are working on this one:
Now, Ariel reported
I have a feeling that you didn’t even bother to check out the mailing list
threads that Łukasz linked to.
I encourage you, and others, to first do so, instead of blindly assuming that
their content is inappropriate.
On 5 November 2016 at 00:14:42, Chris Mattmann (mattm...@apache.org)
Where are the board's guidelines then, or do they make it up as they go?
Flame wars are a risk of every public forum and discussion, and doing
everything in public is one of the tenets of the ASF.
Jim Jagielski stated to me on twitter that a bare minimum of
discussions happen in private, and did
[Moved to a new thread because this topic is important by itself]
There are some excellent points here - thanks for bringing this up.
> What can inspiring developers contribute to 4.0
> that would move the project forward to it’s goals and would be very likely
> included in the final release?
Reading this, all I can think of is this:
On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Chris Mattmann wrote:
> Hi Russ,
> Sorry that you feel that way. I’m happy to be the villain when it comes to
"I’m sorry you had a bad experience, but it feels like that’s the normal ebb
and flow of projects.”
I’m sorry - that should have been - I’m sorry some ideas were not accepted, but
it feels like that’s the normal ebb and flow of projects. I am sorry you had a
bad experience - without any
I’m sorry you found the projects difficult to work with. It sounds like in
this case it was about modularizing with Maven and making TinkerPop work better
with OSGI. People in the project have been going back and forth about the
build process since before Riptano and DataStax
[In the mail below I try not to cast judgement, I do not know enough of the
background to have an opinion on this specific situation. My comments are in
response to the question “Where are the board's guidelines then, or do they
make it up as they go?”.]
The boards guidelines are the Apache
I'd like to add CASSANDRA-11559 (Enhance node representation) to the list,
including the comment I made on the ticket (different storage ports for
each node). For us, it's a great "would really like to have" as our group
will probably need this in production within the next 1 year or
I would like to propose features around seeds:
I have other follow up issues like getting seeds from Amazon API, or from
JNDI/ DNS, etc.
I was hoping 12627 was an easy way to grease the wheels.
On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Jason Brown
Kelly Sommers sent a message to dev@cassandra and I'm trying to figure out if
it's in moderation.
Can the moderators speak up?
Hmm. Not excessive but you have a situation where someone is tweeting thinking
her message didn't go through and conversation is happening there when that
same conversation could be had on list. If you are ok with that continuing to
happen then great but I am not. Can someone please moderate
On 04/11/2016 15:47, Chris Mattmann wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> Kelly Sommers sent a message to dev@cassandra and I'm trying to figure out if
> it's in moderation.
> Can the moderators speak up?
Using my infra karma, I checked the mail server. That message is waiting
for moderator approval. It
Wow, that was quite the aggressive email. The thing is, it very much looks
like the only reason you care about this delay is because Kellabyte is
making the ASF board look bad on twitter. If it weren't the case, it seems
unlikely such a "slow" 12hr response would receive board notice, let alone
I'm beginning to wonder if I'm the only one with moderator privs. Any other
Sorry, it's a chore to begin with and I've been traveling this week.
On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:47 PM, Chris Mattmann wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> Kelly Sommers sent a
I'm not a PMC, and given everything that's happened recently, I no longer
have any desire to be.
I have nothing against improving the moderator situation. What I have, and
continue to have, is something against the way you and the board go about
On 4 November 2016 at 16:57, Chris
Is the message in moderation because
1) it was sent by someone not registered with the list
2) some other reason (anti-spam etc)
If it is is case 1: Isn't the correct process to inform and encourage
someone list properly?
If it is case 2: Is there an expected ETA for list moderation events?
So seriously, we're going to send now 4 emails talking about what a user of
Apache Cassandra and possible community member could have done right or better
or sooner, or that there is no time limit to moderating shit when it could have
been as simple as literally sending a confirmation email to
On 2016-11-04 09:51 (-0700), Benedict Elliott Smith
> Wow, that was quite the aggressive email. The thing is, it very much looks
> like the only reason you care about this delay is because Kellabyte is
> making the ASF board look bad on twitter. If it weren't the
I've just started looking into the moderator component due to this thread;
I admit I did not know about it before (my fault). Yes, I would like to be
added. Apparently, I need to file an INFRA ticket (as per
I have apmail karma and can add moderators.
Jason I can add you - please confirm you would like to be added. Did you file
the ticket - if so point me to it. If you haven't yet, no worries I can still
add you. Let me know. Thanks.
On 2016-11-04 09:54 (-0700), Jason Brown
Yes, I would like to be added, and here sis the ticket I filed:
On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Chris Mattmann wrote:
> I have apmail karma and can add moderators.
> Jason I can add you - please
@Chris: instead of promoting the arguing going on on this thread could you
please help lead by example and reply to Kelly's questions in her email?
I don't enjoy watching a community I care about continue to explode in front of
my eyes ☹️
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov
I'm sorry that you feel I'm promoting the arguing. The point of this thread was
a simple request - moderate the email. I suspected that there weren't enough
moderators but didn't spend the time to check. Honestly this is the Apache
Cassandra PMC's job to maintain a healthy set of moderators,
I can't speak to many of your questions as it's not my position to do so. What
I can say is that at Apple we are doubling down on open source. We have tons of
code in flight -- really big ones in fact -- many already out for review. Our
list of enhancements we want to do grows all
"Avalon. The database" yes autocorrect. That's exactly what I wanted.
That should read "scaling the database and stability." Sorry. I'm typing this
while walking up a big ass hill in San Francisco heading to the office.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 4, 2016, at 10:31 AM, Michael Kjellman
And to add one additional thought to follow up: I generally am personally
motivated to fix problems and bugs that reduce my chance of getting paged at
3am in the morning. This is important for my mental health but also for the
perceived stability of our products (obviously).
Mark Thomas got it done ✅
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 4, 2016, at 10:13 AM, Jason Brown wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Jason Brown wrote:
>> Yes, I would like to be added, and here sis the ticket I
On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 11:44 PM, Kelly Sommers
> I think the community needs some clarification about what's going on.
> There's a really concerning shift going on and the story about why is
> really blurry. I've heard all kinds of wild claims about what's going
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