Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Jeff Beck
Is there an easy place to get up to speed on all the ASF terms? Infra Karma, apmail, etc... I feel behind on understanding what is being talked about here. Jeff On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 12:31 PM Michael Kjellman < mkjell...@internalcircle.com> wrote: > Thank you Chris. > > I have just replied to

Re: Rough roadmap for 4.0

2016-11-04 Thread Jason Brown
+1 to epaxos On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:40 AM, Jonathan Haddad wrote: > epaxos would be nice, it's been about 2 years since it was started, and > Blake asked for a first review well over a year ago. the benchmarks and > thorough test suite look like a huge improvement over

Re: Rough roadmap for 4.0

2016-11-04 Thread Stefan Podkowinski
There has been a lot of discussions about diversity and getting new contributors and I think this aspect should be kept in mind as well when talking about a roadmap, additionally to the listed tickets that are already in the pipeline. What can inspiring developers contribute to 4.0 that would move

Re: Moderation - Apache terms

2016-11-04 Thread Shane Curcuru
On 2016-11-04 14:52 (-0400), Jeff Beck wrote: > Is there an easy place to get up to speed on all the ASF terms? > Infra Karma, apmail, etc... I feel behind on understanding what is > being talked about here. Sure. Jake sent the glossary, but there are some other good

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Russell Bradberry
- ... we are arguing whether to f'ing moderate it through. Wow. Great job. - Do you think it's healthy to send emails trying to talk shit instead of ... - ... project? Or is Twitter the official list now? Go ahead, I'll wait. Given your behavior and rhetoric on this thread, I

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Chris Mattmann
Hi Russ, Sorry that you feel that way. I’m happy to be the villain when it comes to protecting those same ideals you cite regarding Apache in your below thread. You see I’ve been around since 2004 and elected by the membership to the Board for the last three years based on merit, and

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Russell Bradberry
It seems that your tactic of argument is to discredit me at every level in order to show your superiority of sorts. Let me set this straight, I am not attempting to say that I am an authority on ASF or that I know how things should be run. I also was not attempting to vilify you in front of

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Jake Farrell
Hey Jeff This link should help a little http://apache.org/foundation/glossary.html -Jake On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:52 PM, Jeff Beck wrote: > Is there an easy place to get up to speed on all the ASF terms? Infra > Karma, apmail, etc... I feel behind on understanding what is

Re: Rough roadmap for 4.0

2016-11-04 Thread Jonathan Haddad
epaxos would be nice, it's been about 2 years since it was started, and Blake asked for a first review well over a year ago. the benchmarks and thorough test suite look like a huge improvement over the current situation. https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-6246 On Fri, Nov 4, 2016

Re: Broader community involvement in 4.0 (WAS Re: Rough roadmap for 4.0)

2016-11-04 Thread Aleksey Yeschenko
I’m sure that impactful, important, and/or potentially destabilising patches will continue getting reviewed by those engineers. As for patches that no organisation with a strong enough commercial interest cares about, they probably won’t. Engineering time is quite expensive, most employers are

Re: Broader community involvement in 4.0 (WAS Re: Rough roadmap for 4.0)

2016-11-04 Thread Edward Capriolo
"There is also the issue of specialisation. Very few people can be trusted with review of arbitrary Cassandra patches. I can count them all on fingers of one hand." I have to strongly disagree here. The Cassandra issue tracker is over 12000 tickets. I do not think that cassandra has added 12000

Re: Rough roadmap for 4.0

2016-11-04 Thread Nate McCall
Hi Stefan, Thank you very much for bringing this up. I moved this to a new thread because, though closely related, I think it is a very important discussion to have on it's own as it does have a big impact. Thanks, -Nate On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Stefan Podkowinski

Re: Broader community involvement in 4.0 (WAS Re: Rough roadmap for 4.0)

2016-11-04 Thread Nate McCall
To be clear, getting the community more involved is a super hard, critically important problem to which I don't have a concrete answer other than I'm going to keep reaching out for opinions, ideas and involvement. Just like this. Please speak up here if you have ideas on how this could work. On

Re: Broader community involvement in 4.0 (WAS Re: Rough roadmap for 4.0)

2016-11-04 Thread Aleksey Yeschenko
This has always been a concern. We’ve always had a backlog on unreviewed patches. Reviews (real reviews, not rubber-stamping a +1 formally) are real work, often taking as much work as creating the patch in question. And taking as much expertise (or more). It’s also not ‘fun’ and doesn’t lend

Re: Broader community involvement in 4.0 (WAS Re: Rough roadmap for 4.0)

2016-11-04 Thread Aleksey Yeschenko
Dunno. A sneaky correctness or data corruption bug. A performance regression. Or something that can take a node/cluster down. Of course no process is bullet-proof. The purpose of review is to minimise the odds of such a thing happening. I’m sure users running Cassandra in production would

Re: Moderation - Apache terms

2016-11-04 Thread Shane Curcuru
Sigh - sorry about breaking threading, the In-Reply-To header apparently didn't get set when using "reply via your own mail client" from lists.a.o. Luckily, it runs code from the Apache Pony Mail podling, so hopefully we can fix it ourselves! - Shane

Re: Broader community involvement in 4.0 (WAS Re: Rough roadmap for 4.0)

2016-11-04 Thread Jeff Beck
I run the local Cassandra User Group and I would love to help get the community more involved. I would propose holding a night to add patches to Cassandra some will be simple things like making sure some asserts have proper messages with them etc, but some may be slightly larger. The goal being

Re: DataStax role in Cassandra and the ASF

2016-11-04 Thread Chris Mattmann
Thank you for sending this. I am not going to reply in depth now, but will do so to Kelly and others over the weekend, but this is *precisely* the reason that I have been so emphatic about trying to get the PMC to see the road they have already gone done and the ship that has already set sail.

Re: DataStax role in Cassandra and the ASF

2016-11-04 Thread Benedict Elliott Smith
This discussion is bundling up two issues: 1) Did DataStax have an outsized role on the project which needed to be offset, preferably with increased participation? 2) Did the Board behave reasonably in trying to fix it? As far as I can tell the answers are 1) Yes, 2) No Can the board please

Re: DataStax role in Cassandra and the ASF

2016-11-04 Thread Aleksey Yeschenko
You got this one completely wrong, my friend. It’s the PMC who reached out to stratio and helped them get the changes they required into Cassandra, so that they could abandon the fork. I know because I was that PMC member. cc Andres from Stratio --  AY On 5 November 2016 at 00:14:42, Chris

Re: DataStax role in Cassandra and the ASF

2016-11-04 Thread Tom Barber
You know you've linked to a PMC page, when the board isn't a PMC? For example, board member a, thinks project X isn't doing things correctly and their first course of action is to post notes on a public development mailing list? You'd have arguments and flame wars left right and centre. Having

Re: DataStax role in Cassandra and the ASF

2016-11-04 Thread Jeff Jirsa
Note also the work on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-9459 , reaching out to other “competitors” before major versions to ensure compatibility and awareness. I think there’s a ton of evidence supporting the assertion that datastax-employed committers and PMC members acted in

Re: DataStax role in Cassandra and the ASF

2016-11-04 Thread Łukasz Dywicki
Good evening, I feel myself a bit called to table by both Kelly and Chris. Thing is I don’t know personally nor have any relationship with both of you. I’m not even ASF member. My tweet was simply reaction for Kelly complaints about ASF punishing out DataStax. Kelly timeline also contained

Re: Broader community involvement in 4.0 (WAS Re: Rough roadmap for 4.0)

2016-11-04 Thread Edward Capriolo
"I’m sure users running Cassandra in production would prefer actual proper reviews to non-review +1s." Again, you are implying that only you can do a proper job. Lets be specific here: You and I are working on this one: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-10825 Now, Ariel reported

Re: DataStax role in Cassandra and the ASF

2016-11-04 Thread Aleksey Yeschenko
I have a feeling that you didn’t even bother to check out the mailing list threads that Łukasz linked to. I encourage you, and others, to first do so, instead of blindly assuming that their content is inappropriate. --  AY On 5 November 2016 at 00:14:42, Chris Mattmann (mattm...@apache.org)

Re: DataStax role in Cassandra and the ASF

2016-11-04 Thread Benedict Elliott Smith
Where are the board's guidelines then, or do they make it up as they go? Flame wars are a risk of every public forum and discussion, and doing everything in public is one of the tenets of the ASF. Jim Jagielski stated to me on twitter that a bare minimum of discussions happen in private, and did

Broader community involvement in 4.0 (WAS Re: Rough roadmap for 4.0)

2016-11-04 Thread Nate McCall
[Moved to a new thread because this topic is important by itself] There are some excellent points here - thanks for bringing this up. > What can inspiring developers contribute to 4.0 > that would move the project forward to it’s goals and would be very likely > included in the final release?

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread San Luoji
Reading this, all I can think of is this: http://time.com/money/4436630/donald-trump-career-advice-apologies/ On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Chris Mattmann wrote: > Hi Russ, > > Sorry that you feel that way. I’m happy to be the villain when it comes to > protecting > those

Re: DataStax role in Cassandra and the ASF

2016-11-04 Thread Jeremy Hanna
"I’m sorry you had a bad experience, but it feels like that’s the normal ebb and flow of projects.” I’m sorry - that should have been - I’m sorry some ideas were not accepted, but it feels like that’s the normal ebb and flow of projects. I am sorry you had a bad experience - without any

Re: DataStax role in Cassandra and the ASF

2016-11-04 Thread Jeremy Hanna
Hi Łukasz, I’m sorry you found the projects difficult to work with. It sounds like in this case it was about modularizing with Maven and making TinkerPop work better with OSGI. People in the project have been going back and forth about the build process since before Riptano and DataStax

RE: DataStax role in Cassandra and the ASF

2016-11-04 Thread Ross Gardler
[In the mail below I try not to cast judgement, I do not know enough of the background to have an opinion on this specific situation. My comments are in response to the question “Where are the board's guidelines then, or do they make it up as they go?”.] The boards guidelines are the Apache

Re: Rough roadmap for 4.0

2016-11-04 Thread Jason Brown
Hey Nate, I'd like to add CASSANDRA-11559 (Enhance node representation) to the list, including the comment I made on the ticket (different storage ports for each node). For us, it's a great "would really like to have" as our group will probably need this in production within the next 1 year or

Re: Rough roadmap for 4.0

2016-11-04 Thread Edward Capriolo
I would like to propose features around seeds: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-12627 I have other follow up issues like getting seeds from Amazon API, or from JNDI/ DNS, etc. I was hoping 12627 was an easy way to grease the wheels. On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Jason Brown

Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Chris Mattmann
Hi Folks, Kelly Sommers sent a message to dev@cassandra and I'm trying to figure out if it's in moderation. Can the moderators speak up? Cheers, Chris

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Mattmann, Chris A (3010)
Hmm. Not excessive but you have a situation where someone is tweeting thinking her message didn't go through and conversation is happening there when that same conversation could be had on list. If you are ok with that continuing to happen then great but I am not. Can someone please moderate

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Mark Thomas
On 04/11/2016 15:47, Chris Mattmann wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Kelly Sommers sent a message to dev@cassandra and I'm trying to figure out if > it's in moderation. > > Can the moderators speak up? Using my infra karma, I checked the mail server. That message is waiting for moderator approval. It

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Benedict Elliott Smith
Wow, that was quite the aggressive email. The thing is, it very much looks like the only reason you care about this delay is because Kellabyte is making the ASF board look bad on twitter. If it weren't the case, it seems unlikely such a "slow" 12hr response would receive board notice, let alone

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Gary Dusbabek
I'm beginning to wonder if I'm the only one with moderator privs. Any other committer/PMCs interested? Sorry, it's a chore to begin with and I've been traveling this week. Gary. On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:47 PM, Chris Mattmann wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Kelly Sommers sent a

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Benedict Elliott Smith
I'm not a PMC, and given everything that's happened recently, I no longer have any desire to be. I have nothing against improving the moderator situation. What I have, and continue to have, is something against the way you and the board go about things. On 4 November 2016 at 16:57, Chris

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Edward Capriolo
Is the message in moderation because 1) it was sent by someone not registered with the list 2) some other reason (anti-spam etc) If it is is case 1: Isn't the correct process to inform and encourage someone list properly? If it is case 2: Is there an expected ETA for list moderation events?

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Chris Mattmann
So seriously, we're going to send now 4 emails talking about what a user of Apache Cassandra and possible community member could have done right or better or sooner, or that there is no time limit to moderating shit when it could have been as simple as literally sending a confirmation email to

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Chris Mattmann
On 2016-11-04 09:51 (-0700), Benedict Elliott Smith wrote: > Wow, that was quite the aggressive email. The thing is, it very much looks > like the only reason you care about this delay is because Kellabyte is > making the ASF board look bad on twitter. If it weren't the

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Jason Brown
Gary, I've just started looking into the moderator component due to this thread; I admit I did not know about it before (my fault). Yes, I would like to be added. Apparently, I need to file an INFRA ticket (as per https://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html#mailing-list-moderators), which I will

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Chris Mattmann
I have apmail karma and can add moderators. Jason I can add you - please confirm you would like to be added. Did you file the ticket - if so point me to it. If you haven't yet, no worries I can still add you. Let me know. Thanks. On 2016-11-04 09:54 (-0700), Jason Brown

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Jason Brown
Chris, Yes, I would like to be added, and here sis the ticket I filed: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12858. Thanks, -Jason On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Chris Mattmann wrote: > I have apmail karma and can add moderators. > > Jason I can add you - please

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Michael Kjellman
@Chris: instead of promoting the arguing going on on this thread could you please help lead by example and reply to Kelly's questions in her email? Thanks. I don't enjoy watching a community I care about continue to explode in front of my eyes ☹️ best, kjellman Sent from my iPhone > On Nov

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Chris Mattmann
I'm sorry that you feel I'm promoting the arguing. The point of this thread was a simple request - moderate the email. I suspected that there weren't enough moderators but didn't spend the time to check. Honestly this is the Apache Cassandra PMC's job to maintain a healthy set of moderators,

Re: DataStax role in Cassandra and the ASF

2016-11-04 Thread Michael Kjellman
Hi Kelly- I can't speak to many of your questions as it's not my position to do so. What I can say is that at Apple we are doubling down on open source. We have tons of code in flight -- really big ones in fact -- many already out for review. Our list of enhancements we want to do grows all

Re: DataStax role in Cassandra and the ASF

2016-11-04 Thread Michael Kjellman
"Avalon. The database" yes autocorrect. That's exactly what I wanted. That should read "scaling the database and stability." Sorry. I'm typing this while walking up a big ass hill in San Francisco heading to the office.  Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 4, 2016, at 10:31 AM, Michael Kjellman

Re: DataStax role in Cassandra and the ASF

2016-11-04 Thread Michael Kjellman
And to add one additional thought to follow up: I generally am personally motivated to fix problems and bugs that reduce my chance of getting paged at 3am in the morning. This is important for my mental health but also for the perceived stability of our products (obviously). Features are

Re: Moderation

2016-11-04 Thread Mattmann, Chris A (3010)
Mark Thomas got it done ✅ Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 4, 2016, at 10:13 AM, Jason Brown wrote: > > s/sis/is > >> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Jason Brown wrote: >> >> Chris, >> >> Yes, I would like to be added, and here sis the ticket I

Re: DataStax role in Cassandra and the ASF

2016-11-04 Thread Edward Capriolo
On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 11:44 PM, Kelly Sommers wrote: > I think the community needs some clarification about what's going on. > There's a really concerning shift going on and the story about why is > really blurry. I've heard all kinds of wild claims about what's going