Re: KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?

[jonathon]

On 08/11/2017 02:09 AM, William A Rowe Jr wrote:

> FWIW, a computer (computationalist) was a stereotype that there were
> many smart people who could not engineer, but could perform
> calculations. I don't think you want to go there.

Computationalist was/is a far more appropriate term, than what those
individuals would otherwise have been called (^1).  Depending upon whose
research you believe, the first group was either exclusively black
females, or white females. Either the second or third group was
exclusively females of the race that the first group was not.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find "Code like a girl" used as an
epithet with those women.

^1: One major issue is that the work they did was, and, to a degree,
remains classified. For employment purposes a term was needed that was
sufficiently vague that only those who did the job, and their immediate
supervisors had a general idea of what they did, but specific enough, so
that outsiders would know that their job was not-x, where "x" could be
anything, including their specific job function.

jonathon

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Re: KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?

[Kevin A. McGrail]

On 8/11/2017 8:54 AM, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:

On 8/10/2017 10:46 PM, William A Rowe Jr wrote:

Oh, I have no need to, in fact I jumped at a KAM's critical error in
understanding
what the computer profession was (the use of the inhuman 'what' is 
deliberate),
and avoid him making such a bracelet unless he understands the 
implication.


I was certainly brash in my rant but the ASF and the computer industry 
as a whole is too misogynistic.  I'd like us to be more open.  My 
sister "hides" using Sam instead of Samantha to trick people into 
assuming she is male due to issues she has encountered.  I'd like that 
not to happen.


So if you see a critical error with my proposed plan to order the 
bracelets with the ASF Feather (see thread), please be more specific 
as I purposefully delayed the order a day to make sure it wasn't too 
offensive.  Though in reverse bias, I have deferred more strongly to 
the input of the XY chromosome holders as it is important for this to 
be supportive but not offensive to those we are trying to support. 

Damn my internal pro-male filter.  s/XY/XX/.

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Re: KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?

[Kevin A. McGrail]

On 8/10/2017 10:46 PM, William A Rowe Jr wrote:

Oh, I have no need to, in fact I jumped at a KAM's critical error in
understanding
what the computer profession was (the use of the inhuman 'what' is deliberate),
and avoid him making such a bracelet unless he understands the implication.


I was certainly brash in my rant but the ASF and the computer industry 
as a whole is too misogynistic.  I'd like us to be more open.  My sister 
"hides" using Sam instead of Samantha to trick people into assuming she 
is male due to issues she has encountered.  I'd like that not to happen.


So if you see a critical error with my proposed plan to order the 
bracelets with the ASF Feather (see thread), please be more specific as 
I purposefully delayed the order a day to make sure it wasn't too 
offensive.  Though in reverse bias, I have deferred more strongly to the 
input of the XY chromosome holders as it is important for this to be 
supportive but not offensive to those we are trying to support.


Regards,

KAM


--
Kevin A. McGrail
Asst. Treasurer & VP Fundraising, Apache Software Foundation
Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project


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Re: KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?

[William A Rowe Jr]

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 8:10 AM, Kevin A. McGrail
 wrote:
>
> 
> And after the moron at Google decided girls should only get Barbie dolls, 
> I'll personally pay for a batch that says Code Like a Girl. Myrle if you have 
> ideas of something pithier that is broader, I am game.  Compute Like a Girl?

FWIW, a computer (computationalist) was a stereotype that there were
many smart people who could not engineer, but could perform
calculations. I don't think you want to go there.

Code Like a Girl works fine. So would Hack..., Engineer..., Design...,
Architect... etc etc.

There is a reason the only thing we've entirely successfully delegated
to machines is the actual computation (and they still can't arrive at
the correct computational approach if not coded correctly.)

I appreciate your sentiment, but didn't find the alternative to be
complimentary.

This is the oldest reference I find to "Code Like a Girl" -
http://melitamihaljevic.blogspot.com/ blog title. Someone else can
continue the crawl prior back before 2011, or simply ask :)

Cheers,

Bill

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Re: KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?

[Kevin A. McGrail]

Likely not coming from the correct email but Gavin has handles it for you!
Regards,
KAM

On August 10, 2017 5:32:46 PM EDT, fred bucheit  wrote:
>I've done the unsubscribe twenty times and it does no good.
>
>
>Fred Bucheit
>
>
>
>From: Mike Drob 
>Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 3:10 PM
>To: dev@community.apache.org
>Subject: Re: KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?
>
>I didn't think there was a direct add option to our lists - once you
>sign
>up you get a mail asking you to confirm your subscription.
>
>On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Kevin A. McGrail
>> wrote:
>
>> On 8/10/2017 3:06 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>
>>> Or he could just follow the unsubscribe instructions above (and
>below).
>>>
>>
>> I thought it would be good for infra to look at the issue if people
>are
>> using our lists for nefarious purposes.
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>

Re: KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?

[Kevin A. McGrail]

On 8/10/2017 3:06 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:

Or he could just follow the unsubscribe instructions above (and below).


I thought it would be good for infra to look at the issue if people are 
using our lists for nefarious purposes.



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Re: KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?

[Phil Steitz]

On 8/10/17 11:04 AM, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
> On 8/10/2017 1:57 PM, fred bucheit wrote:
>> Someone at apache placed my name in an email bank so that all
>> apache emails
>>
>> come to me along with all the other recipients. It was done for
>> retribution because I complained.
>>
>>
>> Your email is coming to me, Fred Bucheit, at fbuch...@hotmail.com
>>
>> or der...@outlook.com. Can you figure out a way to stop these
>> emails???
>>
> Yikes, sure.  I'll ask to get you removed.
>
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>
>
Or he could just follow the unsubscribe instructions above (and below).

Phil


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Re: KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?

[Aditya]

I'm new. My 2 cents. How about a #CodeLikeAGirl or #(whatever is decided)

Could probably have the # float on twitter / facebook etc.

Regards,
Aditya

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Kevin A. McGrail <
kevin.mcgr...@mcgrail.com> wrote:

> On 8/10/2017 1:57 PM, fred bucheit wrote:
>
>> Someone at apache placed my name in an email bank so that all apache
>> emails
>>
>> come to me along with all the other recipients. It was done for
>> retribution because I complained.
>>
>>
>> Your email is coming to me, Fred Bucheit, at fbuch...@hotmail.com
>>
>> or der...@outlook.com. Can you figure out a way to stop these
>> emails???
>>
>> Yikes, sure.  I'll ask to get you removed.
>
>
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>
>

Re: KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?

[Kevin A. McGrail]

On 8/10/2017 11:36 AM, Claude Warren wrote:

do IT like a girl



Unfortunately "IT" often scans as the word "it".  "Do it like a girl"
sounds a bit lewd if you have the wrong "ears" on.  But then perhaps that
is the best opening for a conversation since I suspect those with the wrong
ears on are the ones we generally want to have the conversation with.

Claude

Yes, that was the tongue in cheek purpose.  "get your mind out of the 
gutter, it says IT."  Conversation continues or you know to avoid them...



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Re: KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?

[Sally Khudairi]

To reiterate, I support you. And the effort.

I can pay for bracelets/stickers/t-shirts/*, and will be happy to help
you publish the blog post.

Cheers,
Sally

- - - 
Vice President Marketing & Publicity
The Apache Software Foundation

Tel +1 617 921 8656
Skype sallykhudairi

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017, at 11:28, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
> On 8/10/2017 9:55 AM, Myrle Krantz wrote:
> >> I'll personally pay for a batch that says Code Like a Girl. Myrle if you 
> >> have ideas of something pithier that is broader, I am game.  Compute Like 
> >> a Girl?
> > That's awesome of you Kevin!
> >
> > Be sure to credit Cornelia Davis -- she was the one handing them out
> > at SpringOne.  I don't think they were her idea, since it wasn't a
> > Pivotal logo, but she was handing them out because it's important to
> > her.
> >
> > How about "Commit Like A Girl" ? You're right that "Code Like A Girl"
> > isn't broad enough for Apache.
> >
> Roger about Cornelia Davis.  I've reached out to her.  Code like a Girl 
> might be a specific program / NPO that I don't want to step on.
> 
> Commit like a girl sounds might be thought of like a date/couple 
> commitment thing.
> 
> But as I wrote SK, the "like a girl" is purposeful and I want that 
> spirit to remain. Yes, it's a dig and it's a direct response to the 
> treatise on women being unfit biologically for the tech field written by 
> the now fired Google employee.
> 
> Tech like a Girl
> 
> do IT like a girl
> 
> Sally, I mentioned a PR but that might be too much of a dig to do 
> officially.  A blog post stating the ASF support of women in technology 
> might be better especially since I have zero problem offending anyone 
> offended by the concept that women are not biologically incapable of 
> tech work.  Far as I'm concerned it's like bug spray if they decide to 
> avoid me, all the better.  So yeah, perhaps I should write a blog post.  
> Likely better if a woman writes it.  But I'm happy to push the idea and 
> use the bracelets and push them.
> 
> So thoughts on the exact slogan and we'll get the bracelets ordered?  
> I'll drop the idea of a PR and I'll pay for them if there isn't 
> budget/support otherwise.
> 
> Regards,KAM
> 
> -- 
> Kevin A. McGrail
> Asst. Treasurer & VP Fundraising, Apache Software Foundation
> Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
> 

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Re: KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?

[fred bucheit]

Sally,


Hm...   How did I get this???  Did someone use forward all by 
mistake?


Fred



From: Sally Khudairi 
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 11:12 AM
To: Kevin A. McGrail; Myrle Krantz; dev@community.apache.org
Cc: Rich Bowen; fundrais...@apache.org
Subject: Re: KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?

OK, apparently I'm not understanding this.

I was referring to providing promo swag. Not a press release.

Curious about your proposal for a press release: what should we be
saying, exactly? To be clear, the ASF --as a foundation-- does not (=
has not, to date) issue position statements like this. We need to be
aware that this may also be pushed back on us, considering our low
percentage of female participants. We have quite vocal ASF Members who
feel that we're misogynistic and not female/*-friendly. Just saying.

In lieu of a press release, perhaps you/we either a) publish a blog post
under ComDev/community, or b) pen a "Success at Apache" article. Both
would be distributed to our community via announce@, and the latter
("Success") also gets sent to the press.

Thanks,
Sally

- - -
Vice President Marketing & Publicity
The Apache Software Foundation

Tel +1 617 921 8656
Skype sallykhudairi

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017, at 10:59, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
> On 8/10/2017 10:26 AM, Sally Khudairi wrote:
> > Hey folks --I'm missing a bit of context here, and I wanted to preface
> > this by reinforcing that I fully support diversity and equality.
> >
> > My gut reaction was "why not 'Code Like a Person'?". Whilst not within
> > the target of the "girl" trend, we're open to everyone.
> >
> > Commit. Code. Contribute.
> >
> > They all work.
> >
> > I can also help with some promotional items, as I have budget, and we're
> > not holding a second ApacheCon this year.
> >
> > Feel free to let me know what you need.
>
> For me, not speaking for Myrle, it's a small dig and an over
> compensation for misogynistic tendencies re: the tech world.
>
> And I think if spun correctly, it could be a nice media bit that gets
> some more light shined on the topic while the iron is hot.
>

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Re: KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?

[Sally Khudairi]

OK, apparently I'm not understanding this.

I was referring to providing promo swag. Not a press release.

Curious about your proposal for a press release: what should we be
saying, exactly? To be clear, the ASF --as a foundation-- does not (=
has not, to date) issue position statements like this. We need to be
aware that this may also be pushed back on us, considering our low
percentage of female participants. We have quite vocal ASF Members who
feel that we're misogynistic and not female/*-friendly. Just saying.

In lieu of a press release, perhaps you/we either a) publish a blog post
under ComDev/community, or b) pen a "Success at Apache" article. Both
would be distributed to our community via announce@, and the latter
("Success") also gets sent to the press.

Thanks,
Sally

- - - 
Vice President Marketing & Publicity
The Apache Software Foundation

Tel +1 617 921 8656
Skype sallykhudairi

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017, at 10:59, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
> On 8/10/2017 10:26 AM, Sally Khudairi wrote:
> > Hey folks --I'm missing a bit of context here, and I wanted to preface
> > this by reinforcing that I fully support diversity and equality.
> >
> > My gut reaction was "why not 'Code Like a Person'?". Whilst not within
> > the target of the "girl" trend, we're open to everyone.
> >
> > Commit. Code. Contribute.
> >
> > They all work.
> >
> > I can also help with some promotional items, as I have budget, and we're
> > not holding a second ApacheCon this year.
> >
> > Feel free to let me know what you need.
> 
> For me, not speaking for Myrle, it's a small dig and an over 
> compensation for misogynistic tendencies re: the tech world.
> 
> And I think if spun correctly, it could be a nice media bit that gets 
> some more light shined on the topic while the iron is hot.
> 

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Re: KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?

[Kevin A. McGrail]

On 8/10/2017 10:26 AM, Sally Khudairi wrote:

Hey folks --I'm missing a bit of context here, and I wanted to preface
this by reinforcing that I fully support diversity and equality.

My gut reaction was "why not 'Code Like a Person'?". Whilst not within
the target of the "girl" trend, we're open to everyone.

Commit. Code. Contribute.

They all work.

I can also help with some promotional items, as I have budget, and we're
not holding a second ApacheCon this year.

Feel free to let me know what you need.


For me, not speaking for Myrle, it's a small dig and an over 
compensation for misogynistic tendencies re: the tech world.


And I think if spun correctly, it could be a nice media bit that gets 
some more light shined on the topic while the iron is hot.



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Re: KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?

[Claude Warren]

3C Like a Person

or

C^3 Like a Person

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Sally Khudairi  wrote:

> Hey folks --I'm missing a bit of context here, and I wanted to preface
> this by reinforcing that I fully support diversity and equality.
>
> My gut reaction was "why not 'Code Like a Person'?". Whilst not within
> the target of the "girl" trend, we're open to everyone.
>
> Commit. Code. Contribute.
>
> They all work.
>
> I can also help with some promotional items, as I have budget, and we're
> not holding a second ApacheCon this year.
>
> Feel free to let me know what you need.
>
> Cheers,
> Sally
>
> - - -
> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> The Apache Software Foundation
>
> Tel +1 617 921 8656
> Skype sallykhudairi
>
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017, at 09:55, Myrle Krantz wrote:
> > > I'll personally pay for a batch that says Code Like a Girl. Myrle if
> you have ideas of something pithier that is broader, I am game.  Compute
> Like a Girl?
> >
> > That's awesome of you Kevin!
> >
> > Be sure to credit Cornelia Davis -- she was the one handing them out
> > at SpringOne.  I don't think they were her idea, since it wasn't a
> > Pivotal logo, but she was handing them out because it's important to
> > her.
> >
> > How about "Commit Like A Girl" ? You're right that "Code Like A Girl"
> > isn't broad enough for Apache.
> >
> > Greets,
> > Myrle
>
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>
>


-- 
I like: Like Like - The likeliest place on the web

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/claudewarren

Re: KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?

[Sally Khudairi]

Hey folks --I'm missing a bit of context here, and I wanted to preface
this by reinforcing that I fully support diversity and equality.

My gut reaction was "why not 'Code Like a Person'?". Whilst not within
the target of the "girl" trend, we're open to everyone.

Commit. Code. Contribute. 

They all work.

I can also help with some promotional items, as I have budget, and we're
not holding a second ApacheCon this year.

Feel free to let me know what you need.

Cheers,
Sally

- - - 
Vice President Marketing & Publicity
The Apache Software Foundation

Tel +1 617 921 8656
Skype sallykhudairi

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017, at 09:55, Myrle Krantz wrote:
> > I'll personally pay for a batch that says Code Like a Girl. Myrle if you 
> > have ideas of something pithier that is broader, I am game.  Compute Like a 
> > Girl?
> 
> That's awesome of you Kevin!
> 
> Be sure to credit Cornelia Davis -- she was the one handing them out
> at SpringOne.  I don't think they were her idea, since it wasn't a
> Pivotal logo, but she was handing them out because it's important to
> her.
> 
> How about "Commit Like A Girl" ? You're right that "Code Like A Girl"
> isn't broad enough for Apache.
> 
> Greets,
> Myrle

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KAM is not drunk was Re: Wristbands instead of stickers?

[Kevin A. McGrail]

+1mm


And after the moron at Google decided girls should only get Barbie dolls, I'll 
personally pay for a batch that says Code Like a Girl. Myrle if you have ideas 
of something pithier that is broader, I am game.  Compute Like a Girl?  

Perhaps SK can do a pr.  And we can send a few with me to Google.  Diane Greene 
I will personally hand one too.  You can also send one to the YouTube CEO who 
was a rockstar in her rebuttal.  Only some boys will be allowed to wear them, 
natch.

I have coached girls and boys in LEGO leagues.  All I have ever found that 
guides it is interest level and social norm pressures. People are different.  
Celebrate uniqueness.

Ps climate change is real.
Pps Trump is a 30 foot chicken


Seriously. Write the pr if you don't think I am nuts. I am at Google in 2 weeks 
and they are flying me out in November.  I am and have been Google's number 1 
slot out of 150k admins on their official platform google.connectforwork.com.  
I don't abuse that but it's a good pulpit and I will add it to my sig.

Also speaking at a con for cPanel in September.  And all things open I am 
trying to attend. 

Thoughts?
Regards,
KAM

On August 10, 2017 8:43:52 AM EDT, Rich Bowen  wrote:
>Looks like we can get 1000 for less than $200 from
>https://www.rapidwristbands.com/ so it would be a cheap experiment.
>
>On Aug 10, 2017 03:30, "Myrle Krantz"  wrote:
>
>> Cool idea Chris. I got three wristbands at SpringOne last year with a
>> company logo and "Code like a girl" on it. I wore one of them every
>day for
>> months. If I could get an Apache feather and "Code like a girl" I
>might
>> never take it off again. : o)
>>
>> Greets,
>> Myrle
>>
>> On Thu 10. Aug 2017 at 09:22 Christofer Dutz
>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > An Idea I had a few weeks ago: I’m a big fan of electronic dance
>music
>> and
>> > there currently every artist creates silicone wristbands with their
>> artist
>> > logo on as giveaways and people are mad about them and tend to wear
>the
>> > wristbands of the artists they enjoy most when going to music
>events …
>> > Here an example:
>> > http://images.locanto.net/1150662027/cool-wristbands_2.jpg
>> >
>> > Maybe it would be cool to have things like this for Apache
>projects. So
>> > when going on a conference people could wear the bands for the
>projects
>> > they like? I have to admit that I’d like the idea.
>> >
>> > Chris
>> >
>>