Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-08 Thread David Blevins


On May 8, 2006, at 11:50 AM, Jason Dillon wrote:


That's good :-)

* * *

I still think that we should avoid the silly jar naming that sun  
dropped on the community wherever possible.


Not suggesting that we need to change anything as it is now, but if  
we do, when we do...


Not a fan of the aar, bar, car, dar, ear, ... war, var, zar naming  
convention either.


-David



--jason


-Original Message-
From: Dain Sundstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 09:47:05
To:[email protected]
Subject: Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

Our code does not look at the file extension to determine the file
type.  Instead it checks for key files within the jar itself (e.g,
META0INF/ejb-jar.xml, WEB-INF/web.xml)

-dain

On May 6, 2006, at 11:45 AM, Jason Dillon wrote:


I actually don't see any reason why not just leave them as .jar
files really.  The server needs to know how to treat .jar files
different anyways (libraries vs. ejb-jars).

:-\

--jason


On May 6, 2006, at 10:56 AM, Aaron Mulder wrote:


Just to clarify, the actual file extension in the form of a file
extension is only use in a developer's local Maven repository
during a
build, and for plugin download files.

It's kind of a semantic distinction, but I believe the repository
logic is that iy uses the "type" specified in the module ID in the
directory name in the repository, so the entries in the repostory  
are

like group/artifact/version/artifact-version.type/ so there is a
".car/" in the directory name (but not in any file names).

Bottom line, if we want to change anything, we need to change the
standard "type", so for example "geronimo/j2ee-server/1.1/mod"
instead
of "geronimo/j2ee-server/1.1/car"

I'm OK with that, but I don't feel strongly that it needs to be
done. I guess I'm kind of a +/- 0.

Thanks,
  Aaron

On 5/6/06, anita kulshreshtha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

   Looks like .mdl is already taken.
http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/online/formats/mdl/
 +1 for ,mod

Thanks
Anita

--- Sachin Patel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


+1

- sachin



On May 6, 2006, at 3:24 AM, John Sisson wrote:


I also was just about to suggest a .module extension, but after
further thought, having an extension longer than three

characters

is likely to reintroduce the filename length issues (under

geronimo



\repository) on Windows during the builds.

How about .mod or .mdl.

John

Jason Dillon wrote:

I'd be happy if we never ended up calling any file a .[a-zA-

Z]ar.



I think that the ear/war/rar thing is lame to start with, the
folks that continue to use the same lame extension naming

system

(sar, har, dar, car) just perpetuate this silly system that Sun
dropped on us.

If we need to use extensions to clarify what something is, then
lets use something more sensible.  Like for a module, why

not just



use .module?  If you want to still say its a jar,
then .module.jar, but please lets not make it a .mar.

--jason


On May 5, 2006, at 7:40 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:


Sounds like the consensus is to change it (although I don't
remember a formal vote although I do remember the discussion).
For my part it sounds like we're changing the configId to
moduleId to decrease confusion.  It seems odd that the modules
are called CARs (Configuration Archives) or some such

thing.  I

think we're making the server more confusing because now less
things actually line up from a naming perspective.

It just doesn't feel like we're giving our users a lot of

stability.


As David said, Just my $0.02.

I would like to see more input from people though.  I've been
travelling so I must have missed the vote to put it in.

Dain Sundstrom wrote:

I think now is the time to discuss if we want to commit the
change from configId to moduleId.  If we decide to commit the
patch, the timing of the actual commit will be determined by
Kevan to have the smallest impact on the TCK.  The patch

makes

the following changes:
  o Renamed root element from "configuration" to "module"
  o Renamed environment element from "configId" to "moduleId"
  o Renamed schema from "geronimo-config-1.1.xsd" to

"geronimo-

module-1.1.xsd"
Based on conversations over the past few days, I think we all
agree that "configuration" is a poor name choice, and we

want to



change it.  I also think that we all agree that if we are

going



to make the change we should change the xml schemas before

1.1

ships to have minimal impact on users (we already have schema
changes going into 1.1).
Should we commit?
-dain













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Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-08 Thread Dain Sundstrom

Commited.

-dain

On May 7, 2006, at 7:34 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:


OK Dain. We're ready to go.

Here's my understanding of where we are on this issue:

There has been a discussion on the matter (there was no official  
vote -- nor did there need to be one). The consensus was to change  
configId to moduleId.


I didn't participate in the original discussion. For the record,  
I'm neutral on this change. I think we're trading one over-loaded  
term (config) for another (module). Module may be marginally  
better, but not by much... Either way, we end up with terms that  
will require explanation.


The only outstanding issue is the suffix name for the archive. I've  
heard the following proposals:


1) Leave it as .car
2) Change it to .mod or .mdl
3) Change it to .jar

I believe that 1) is the suffix supported by your patch and is the  
group consensus (albeit not a visibly overwhelming consensus).


--kevan




Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-08 Thread Jason Dillon
That's good :-)

* * *

I still think that we should avoid the silly jar naming that sun dropped on the 
community wherever possible. 

Not suggesting that we need to change anything as it is now, but if we do, when 
we do...

--jason


-Original Message-
From: Dain Sundstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 09:47:05 
To:[email protected]
Subject: Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

Our code does not look at the file extension to determine the file  
type.  Instead it checks for key files within the jar itself (e.g,  
META0INF/ejb-jar.xml, WEB-INF/web.xml)

-dain

On May 6, 2006, at 11:45 AM, Jason Dillon wrote:

> I actually don't see any reason why not just leave them as .jar  
> files really.  The server needs to know how to treat .jar files  
> different anyways (libraries vs. ejb-jars).
>
> :-\
>
> --jason
>
>
> On May 6, 2006, at 10:56 AM, Aaron Mulder wrote:
>
>> Just to clarify, the actual file extension in the form of a file
>> extension is only use in a developer's local Maven repository  
>> during a
>> build, and for plugin download files.
>>
>> It's kind of a semantic distinction, but I believe the repository
>> logic is that iy uses the "type" specified in the module ID in the
>> directory name in the repository, so the entries in the repostory are
>> like group/artifact/version/artifact-version.type/ so there is a
>> ".car/" in the directory name (but not in any file names).
>>
>> Bottom line, if we want to change anything, we need to change the
>> standard "type", so for example "geronimo/j2ee-server/1.1/mod"  
>> instead
>> of "geronimo/j2ee-server/1.1/car"
>>
>> I'm OK with that, but I don't feel strongly that it needs to be  
>> done. I guess I'm kind of a +/- 0.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>   Aaron
>>
>> On 5/6/06, anita kulshreshtha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>Looks like .mdl is already taken.
>>> http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/online/formats/mdl/
>>>  +1 for ,mod
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Anita
>>>
>>> --- Sachin Patel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> > +1
>>> >
>>> > - sachin
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On May 6, 2006, at 3:24 AM, John Sisson wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > I also was just about to suggest a .module extension, but after
>>> > > further thought, having an extension longer than three  
>>> characters
>>> > > is likely to reintroduce the filename length issues (under  
>>> geronimo
>>> >
>>> > > \repository) on Windows during the builds.
>>> > >
>>> > > How about .mod or .mdl.
>>> > >
>>> > > John
>>> > >
>>> > > Jason Dillon wrote:
>>> > >> I'd be happy if we never ended up calling any file a .[a-zA- 
>>> Z]ar.
>>> >
>>> > >> I think that the ear/war/rar thing is lame to start with, the
>>> > >> folks that continue to use the same lame extension naming  
>>> system
>>> > >> (sar, har, dar, car) just perpetuate this silly system that Sun
>>> > >> dropped on us.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> If we need to use extensions to clarify what something is, then
>>> > >> lets use something more sensible.  Like for a module, why  
>>> not just
>>> >
>>> > >> use .module?  If you want to still say its a jar,
>>> > >> then .module.jar, but please lets not make it a .mar.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> --jason
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> On May 5, 2006, at 7:40 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >>> Sounds like the consensus is to change it (although I don't
>>> > >>> remember a formal vote although I do remember the discussion).
>>> > >>> For my part it sounds like we're changing the configId to
>>> > >>> moduleId to decrease confusion.  It seems odd that the modules
>>> > >>> are called CARs (Configuration Archives) or some such  
>>> thing.  I
>>> > >>> think we're making the server more confusing because now less
>>> > >>> things actually line up from a naming perspective.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> It just doesn't feel like we&

Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-08 Thread Dain Sundstrom

On May 5, 2006, at 7:40 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:


It just doesn't feel like we're giving our users a lot of stability.


Say what?  We have already changed the schema in 1.1 and we have not  
released G 1.1 yet, so there are no user stability concerns created  
by adding another change.


-dain


Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-08 Thread Dain Sundstrom
Our code does not look at the file extension to determine the file  
type.  Instead it checks for key files within the jar itself (e.g,  
META0INF/ejb-jar.xml, WEB-INF/web.xml)


-dain

On May 6, 2006, at 11:45 AM, Jason Dillon wrote:

I actually don't see any reason why not just leave them as .jar  
files really.  The server needs to know how to treat .jar files  
different anyways (libraries vs. ejb-jars).


:-\

--jason


On May 6, 2006, at 10:56 AM, Aaron Mulder wrote:


Just to clarify, the actual file extension in the form of a file
extension is only use in a developer's local Maven repository  
during a

build, and for plugin download files.

It's kind of a semantic distinction, but I believe the repository
logic is that iy uses the "type" specified in the module ID in the
directory name in the repository, so the entries in the repostory are
like group/artifact/version/artifact-version.type/ so there is a
".car/" in the directory name (but not in any file names).

Bottom line, if we want to change anything, we need to change the
standard "type", so for example "geronimo/j2ee-server/1.1/mod"  
instead

of "geronimo/j2ee-server/1.1/car"

I'm OK with that, but I don't feel strongly that it needs to be  
done. I guess I'm kind of a +/- 0.


Thanks,
  Aaron

On 5/6/06, anita kulshreshtha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

   Looks like .mdl is already taken.
http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/online/formats/mdl/
 +1 for ,mod

Thanks
Anita

--- Sachin Patel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> +1
>
> - sachin
>
>
>
> On May 6, 2006, at 3:24 AM, John Sisson wrote:
>
> > I also was just about to suggest a .module extension, but after
> > further thought, having an extension longer than three  
characters
> > is likely to reintroduce the filename length issues (under  
geronimo

>
> > \repository) on Windows during the builds.
> >
> > How about .mod or .mdl.
> >
> > John
> >
> > Jason Dillon wrote:
> >> I'd be happy if we never ended up calling any file a .[a-zA- 
Z]ar.

>
> >> I think that the ear/war/rar thing is lame to start with, the
> >> folks that continue to use the same lame extension naming  
system

> >> (sar, har, dar, car) just perpetuate this silly system that Sun
> >> dropped on us.
> >>
> >> If we need to use extensions to clarify what something is, then
> >> lets use something more sensible.  Like for a module, why  
not just

>
> >> use .module?  If you want to still say its a jar,
> >> then .module.jar, but please lets not make it a .mar.
> >>
> >> --jason
> >>
> >>
> >> On May 5, 2006, at 7:40 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
> >>
> >>> Sounds like the consensus is to change it (although I don't
> >>> remember a formal vote although I do remember the discussion).
> >>> For my part it sounds like we're changing the configId to
> >>> moduleId to decrease confusion.  It seems odd that the modules
> >>> are called CARs (Configuration Archives) or some such  
thing.  I

> >>> think we're making the server more confusing because now less
> >>> things actually line up from a naming perspective.
> >>>
> >>> It just doesn't feel like we're giving our users a lot of
> stability.
> >>>
> >>> As David said, Just my $0.02.
> >>>
> >>> I would like to see more input from people though.  I've been
> >>> travelling so I must have missed the vote to put it in.
> >>>
> >>> Dain Sundstrom wrote:
>  I think now is the time to discuss if we want to commit the
>  change from configId to moduleId.  If we decide to commit the
>  patch, the timing of the actual commit will be determined by
>  Kevan to have the smallest impact on the TCK.  The patch  
makes

>  the following changes:
>    o Renamed root element from "configuration" to "module"
>    o Renamed environment element from "configId" to "moduleId"
>    o Renamed schema from "geronimo-config-1.1.xsd" to  
"geronimo-

>  module-1.1.xsd"
>  Based on conversations over the past few days, I think we all
>  agree that "configuration" is a poor name choice, and we  
want to

>
>  change it.  I also think that we all agree that if we are  
going

>
>  to make the change we should change the xml schemas before  
1.1

>  ships to have minimal impact on users (we already have schema
>  changes going into 1.1).
>  Should we commit?
>  -dain
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>


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Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-07 Thread Kevan Miller


On May 5, 2006, at 3:05 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:

I think now is the time to discuss if we want to commit the change  
from configId to moduleId.  If we decide to commit the patch, the  
timing of the actual commit will be determined by Kevan to have the  
smallest impact on the TCK.  The patch makes the following changes:


  o Renamed root element from "configuration" to "module"
  o Renamed environment element from "configId" to "moduleId"
  o Renamed schema from "geronimo-config-1.1.xsd" to "geronimo- 
module-1.1.xsd"


Based on conversations over the past few days, I think we all agree  
that "configuration" is a poor name choice, and we want to change  
it.  I also think that we all agree that if we are going to make  
the change we should change the xml schemas before 1.1 ships to  
have minimal impact on users (we already have schema changes going  
into 1.1).


Should we commit?


OK Dain. We're ready to go.

Here's my understanding of where we are on this issue:

There has been a discussion on the matter (there was no official vote  
-- nor did there need to be one). The consensus was to change  
configId to moduleId.


I didn't participate in the original discussion. For the record, I'm  
neutral on this change. I think we're trading one over-loaded term  
(config) for another (module). Module may be marginally better, but  
not by much... Either way, we end up with terms that will require  
explanation.


The only outstanding issue is the suffix name for the archive. I've  
heard the following proposals:


1) Leave it as .car
2) Change it to .mod or .mdl
3) Change it to .jar

I believe that 1) is the suffix supported by your patch and is the  
group consensus (albeit not a visibly overwhelming consensus).


--kevan


Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-06 Thread John Sisson
Another reason I don't like '.car' is that to some people it has a 
meaning in Java Web Start (client archive).  I remember when I first saw 
.car files, I googled to see what they were but after following it up on 
IRC found out it wasn't anything to do with Web Start.


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2B%22client+archives%22+%2Bjnlp+%2Bcar+&btnG=Search&meta=

I just wonder how many people will ask us what the 'car' part of the 
module names that are displayed during startup mean etc.


John

Aaron Mulder wrote:

Just to clarify, the actual file extension in the form of a file
extension is only use in a developer's local Maven repository during a
build, and for plugin download files.

It's kind of a semantic distinction, but I believe the repository
logic is that iy uses the "type" specified in the module ID in the
directory name in the repository, so the entries in the repostory are
like group/artifact/version/artifact-version.type/ so there is a
".car/" in the directory name (but not in any file names).

Bottom line, if we want to change anything, we need to change the
standard "type", so for example "geronimo/j2ee-server/1.1/mod" instead
of "geronimo/j2ee-server/1.1/car"

I'm OK with that, but I don't feel strongly that it needs to be done. 
I guess I'm kind of a +/- 0.


Thanks,
  Aaron

On 5/6/06, anita kulshreshtha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

   Looks like .mdl is already taken.
http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/online/formats/mdl/
 +1 for ,mod

Thanks
Anita

--- Sachin Patel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> +1
>
> - sachin
>
>
>
> On May 6, 2006, at 3:24 AM, John Sisson wrote:
>
> > I also was just about to suggest a .module extension, but after
> > further thought, having an extension longer than three characters
> > is likely to reintroduce the filename length issues (under geronimo
>
> > \repository) on Windows during the builds.
> >
> > How about .mod or .mdl.
> >
> > John
> >
> > Jason Dillon wrote:
> >> I'd be happy if we never ended up calling any file a .[a-zA-Z]ar.
>
> >> I think that the ear/war/rar thing is lame to start with, the
> >> folks that continue to use the same lame extension naming system
> >> (sar, har, dar, car) just perpetuate this silly system that Sun
> >> dropped on us.
> >>
> >> If we need to use extensions to clarify what something is, then
> >> lets use something more sensible.  Like for a module, why not just
>
> >> use .module?  If you want to still say its a jar,
> >> then .module.jar, but please lets not make it a .mar.
> >>
> >> --jason
> >>
> >>
> >> On May 5, 2006, at 7:40 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
> >>
> >>> Sounds like the consensus is to change it (although I don't
> >>> remember a formal vote although I do remember the discussion).
> >>> For my part it sounds like we're changing the configId to
> >>> moduleId to decrease confusion.  It seems odd that the modules
> >>> are called CARs (Configuration Archives) or some such thing.  I
> >>> think we're making the server more confusing because now less
> >>> things actually line up from a naming perspective.
> >>>
> >>> It just doesn't feel like we're giving our users a lot of
> stability.
> >>>
> >>> As David said, Just my $0.02.
> >>>
> >>> I would like to see more input from people though.  I've been
> >>> travelling so I must have missed the vote to put it in.
> >>>
> >>> Dain Sundstrom wrote:
>  I think now is the time to discuss if we want to commit the
>  change from configId to moduleId.  If we decide to commit the
>  patch, the timing of the actual commit will be determined by
>  Kevan to have the smallest impact on the TCK.  The patch makes
>  the following changes:
>    o Renamed root element from "configuration" to "module"
>    o Renamed environment element from "configId" to "moduleId"
>    o Renamed schema from "geronimo-config-1.1.xsd" to "geronimo-
>  module-1.1.xsd"
>  Based on conversations over the past few days, I think we all
>  agree that "configuration" is a poor name choice, and we want to
>
>  change it.  I also think that we all agree that if we are going
>
>  to make the change we should change the xml schemas before 1.1
>  ships to have minimal impact on users (we already have schema
>  changes going into 1.1).
>  Should we commit?
>  -dain
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>


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Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-06 Thread David Blevins


On May 5, 2006, at 7:54 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:


Dave,

thanks for the reminder of the vote.  I was thinking in terms of  
Dain's first note in this chain.  I believe I voted +1 in that  
original moduleId thread.  After considering this further I'm  
revising my opinion as I don't think we're solving the problem;  
just creating new ones.  I think I'd be more in favor of making the  
terminology consistent throughout the server but that is more than  
can be contained in 1.1.


To be honest, I'm not sure what you'd call it.  We had an idea  
proposed followed by a bunch of +1s, but of course "[vote]" wasn't in  
the title.  So your guess is as good as mine :)



Regardless, let's hear from Kevan.


And anyone who wants to speak their mind on the subject.


Thanks for keeping me honest :)


Keeping an honest man honest is a one man job.

-David



Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-06 Thread Jason Dillon
I actually don't see any reason why not just leave them as .jar files  
really.  The server needs to know how to treat .jar files different  
anyways (libraries vs. ejb-jars).


:-\

--jason


On May 6, 2006, at 10:56 AM, Aaron Mulder wrote:


Just to clarify, the actual file extension in the form of a file
extension is only use in a developer's local Maven repository during a
build, and for plugin download files.

It's kind of a semantic distinction, but I believe the repository
logic is that iy uses the "type" specified in the module ID in the
directory name in the repository, so the entries in the repostory are
like group/artifact/version/artifact-version.type/ so there is a
".car/" in the directory name (but not in any file names).

Bottom line, if we want to change anything, we need to change the
standard "type", so for example "geronimo/j2ee-server/1.1/mod" instead
of "geronimo/j2ee-server/1.1/car"

I'm OK with that, but I don't feel strongly that it needs to be  
done. I guess I'm kind of a +/- 0.


Thanks,
  Aaron

On 5/6/06, anita kulshreshtha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

   Looks like .mdl is already taken.
http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/online/formats/mdl/
 +1 for ,mod

Thanks
Anita

--- Sachin Patel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> +1
>
> - sachin
>
>
>
> On May 6, 2006, at 3:24 AM, John Sisson wrote:
>
> > I also was just about to suggest a .module extension, but after
> > further thought, having an extension longer than three characters
> > is likely to reintroduce the filename length issues (under  
geronimo

>
> > \repository) on Windows during the builds.
> >
> > How about .mod or .mdl.
> >
> > John
> >
> > Jason Dillon wrote:
> >> I'd be happy if we never ended up calling any file a .[a-zA-Z] 
ar.

>
> >> I think that the ear/war/rar thing is lame to start with, the
> >> folks that continue to use the same lame extension naming system
> >> (sar, har, dar, car) just perpetuate this silly system that Sun
> >> dropped on us.
> >>
> >> If we need to use extensions to clarify what something is, then
> >> lets use something more sensible.  Like for a module, why not  
just

>
> >> use .module?  If you want to still say its a jar,
> >> then .module.jar, but please lets not make it a .mar.
> >>
> >> --jason
> >>
> >>
> >> On May 5, 2006, at 7:40 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
> >>
> >>> Sounds like the consensus is to change it (although I don't
> >>> remember a formal vote although I do remember the discussion).
> >>> For my part it sounds like we're changing the configId to
> >>> moduleId to decrease confusion.  It seems odd that the modules
> >>> are called CARs (Configuration Archives) or some such thing.  I
> >>> think we're making the server more confusing because now less
> >>> things actually line up from a naming perspective.
> >>>
> >>> It just doesn't feel like we're giving our users a lot of
> stability.
> >>>
> >>> As David said, Just my $0.02.
> >>>
> >>> I would like to see more input from people though.  I've been
> >>> travelling so I must have missed the vote to put it in.
> >>>
> >>> Dain Sundstrom wrote:
>  I think now is the time to discuss if we want to commit the
>  change from configId to moduleId.  If we decide to commit the
>  patch, the timing of the actual commit will be determined by
>  Kevan to have the smallest impact on the TCK.  The patch makes
>  the following changes:
>    o Renamed root element from "configuration" to "module"
>    o Renamed environment element from "configId" to "moduleId"
>    o Renamed schema from "geronimo-config-1.1.xsd" to  
"geronimo-

>  module-1.1.xsd"
>  Based on conversations over the past few days, I think we all
>  agree that "configuration" is a poor name choice, and we  
want to

>
>  change it.  I also think that we all agree that if we are  
going

>
>  to make the change we should change the xml schemas before 1.1
>  ships to have minimal impact on users (we already have schema
>  changes going into 1.1).
>  Should we commit?
>  -dain
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>


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Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-06 Thread Aaron Mulder

Just to clarify, the actual file extension in the form of a file
extension is only use in a developer's local Maven repository during a
build, and for plugin download files.

It's kind of a semantic distinction, but I believe the repository
logic is that iy uses the "type" specified in the module ID in the
directory name in the repository, so the entries in the repostory are
like group/artifact/version/artifact-version.type/ so there is a
".car/" in the directory name (but not in any file names).

Bottom line, if we want to change anything, we need to change the
standard "type", so for example "geronimo/j2ee-server/1.1/mod" instead
of "geronimo/j2ee-server/1.1/car"

I'm OK with that, but I don't feel strongly that it needs to be done. 
I guess I'm kind of a +/- 0.


Thanks,
  Aaron

On 5/6/06, anita kulshreshtha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

   Looks like .mdl is already taken.
http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/online/formats/mdl/
 +1 for ,mod

Thanks
Anita

--- Sachin Patel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> +1
>
> - sachin
>
>
>
> On May 6, 2006, at 3:24 AM, John Sisson wrote:
>
> > I also was just about to suggest a .module extension, but after
> > further thought, having an extension longer than three characters
> > is likely to reintroduce the filename length issues (under geronimo
>
> > \repository) on Windows during the builds.
> >
> > How about .mod or .mdl.
> >
> > John
> >
> > Jason Dillon wrote:
> >> I'd be happy if we never ended up calling any file a .[a-zA-Z]ar.
>
> >> I think that the ear/war/rar thing is lame to start with, the
> >> folks that continue to use the same lame extension naming system
> >> (sar, har, dar, car) just perpetuate this silly system that Sun
> >> dropped on us.
> >>
> >> If we need to use extensions to clarify what something is, then
> >> lets use something more sensible.  Like for a module, why not just
>
> >> use .module?  If you want to still say its a jar,
> >> then .module.jar, but please lets not make it a .mar.
> >>
> >> --jason
> >>
> >>
> >> On May 5, 2006, at 7:40 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
> >>
> >>> Sounds like the consensus is to change it (although I don't
> >>> remember a formal vote although I do remember the discussion).
> >>> For my part it sounds like we're changing the configId to
> >>> moduleId to decrease confusion.  It seems odd that the modules
> >>> are called CARs (Configuration Archives) or some such thing.  I
> >>> think we're making the server more confusing because now less
> >>> things actually line up from a naming perspective.
> >>>
> >>> It just doesn't feel like we're giving our users a lot of
> stability.
> >>>
> >>> As David said, Just my $0.02.
> >>>
> >>> I would like to see more input from people though.  I've been
> >>> travelling so I must have missed the vote to put it in.
> >>>
> >>> Dain Sundstrom wrote:
>  I think now is the time to discuss if we want to commit the
>  change from configId to moduleId.  If we decide to commit the
>  patch, the timing of the actual commit will be determined by
>  Kevan to have the smallest impact on the TCK.  The patch makes
>  the following changes:
>    o Renamed root element from "configuration" to "module"
>    o Renamed environment element from "configId" to "moduleId"
>    o Renamed schema from "geronimo-config-1.1.xsd" to "geronimo-
>  module-1.1.xsd"
>  Based on conversations over the past few days, I think we all
>  agree that "configuration" is a poor name choice, and we want to
>
>  change it.  I also think that we all agree that if we are going
>
>  to make the change we should change the xml schemas before 1.1
>  ships to have minimal impact on users (we already have schema
>  changes going into 1.1).
>  Should we commit?
>  -dain
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>


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Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-06 Thread anita kulshreshtha
   Looks like .mdl is already taken.
http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/online/formats/mdl/
 +1 for ,mod

Thanks
Anita

--- Sachin Patel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> +1
> 
> - sachin
> 
> 
> 
> On May 6, 2006, at 3:24 AM, John Sisson wrote:
> 
> > I also was just about to suggest a .module extension, but after  
> > further thought, having an extension longer than three characters  
> > is likely to reintroduce the filename length issues (under geronimo
> 
> > \repository) on Windows during the builds.
> >
> > How about .mod or .mdl.
> >
> > John
> >
> > Jason Dillon wrote:
> >> I'd be happy if we never ended up calling any file a .[a-zA-Z]ar. 
>  
> >> I think that the ear/war/rar thing is lame to start with, the  
> >> folks that continue to use the same lame extension naming system  
> >> (sar, har, dar, car) just perpetuate this silly system that Sun  
> >> dropped on us.
> >>
> >> If we need to use extensions to clarify what something is, then  
> >> lets use something more sensible.  Like for a module, why not just
>  
> >> use .module?  If you want to still say its a jar,  
> >> then .module.jar, but please lets not make it a .mar.
> >>
> >> --jason
> >>
> >>
> >> On May 5, 2006, at 7:40 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
> >>
> >>> Sounds like the consensus is to change it (although I don't  
> >>> remember a formal vote although I do remember the discussion).   
> >>> For my part it sounds like we're changing the configId to  
> >>> moduleId to decrease confusion.  It seems odd that the modules  
> >>> are called CARs (Configuration Archives) or some such thing.  I  
> >>> think we're making the server more confusing because now less  
> >>> things actually line up from a naming perspective.
> >>>
> >>> It just doesn't feel like we're giving our users a lot of
> stability.
> >>>
> >>> As David said, Just my $0.02.
> >>>
> >>> I would like to see more input from people though.  I've been  
> >>> travelling so I must have missed the vote to put it in.
> >>>
> >>> Dain Sundstrom wrote:
>  I think now is the time to discuss if we want to commit the  
>  change from configId to moduleId.  If we decide to commit the  
>  patch, the timing of the actual commit will be determined by  
>  Kevan to have the smallest impact on the TCK.  The patch makes  
>  the following changes:
>    o Renamed root element from "configuration" to "module"
>    o Renamed environment element from "configId" to "moduleId"
>    o Renamed schema from "geronimo-config-1.1.xsd" to "geronimo- 
>  module-1.1.xsd"
>  Based on conversations over the past few days, I think we all  
>  agree that "configuration" is a poor name choice, and we want to
>  
>  change it.  I also think that we all agree that if we are going 
> 
>  to make the change we should change the xml schemas before 1.1  
>  ships to have minimal impact on users (we already have schema  
>  changes going into 1.1).
>  Should we commit?
>  -dain
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> 


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Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-06 Thread Sachin Patel

+1

- sachin



On May 6, 2006, at 3:24 AM, John Sisson wrote:

I also was just about to suggest a .module extension, but after  
further thought, having an extension longer than three characters  
is likely to reintroduce the filename length issues (under geronimo 
\repository) on Windows during the builds.


How about .mod or .mdl.

John

Jason Dillon wrote:
I'd be happy if we never ended up calling any file a .[a-zA-Z]ar.   
I think that the ear/war/rar thing is lame to start with, the  
folks that continue to use the same lame extension naming system  
(sar, har, dar, car) just perpetuate this silly system that Sun  
dropped on us.


If we need to use extensions to clarify what something is, then  
lets use something more sensible.  Like for a module, why not just  
use .module?  If you want to still say its a jar,  
then .module.jar, but please lets not make it a .mar.


--jason


On May 5, 2006, at 7:40 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:

Sounds like the consensus is to change it (although I don't  
remember a formal vote although I do remember the discussion).   
For my part it sounds like we're changing the configId to  
moduleId to decrease confusion.  It seems odd that the modules  
are called CARs (Configuration Archives) or some such thing.  I  
think we're making the server more confusing because now less  
things actually line up from a naming perspective.


It just doesn't feel like we're giving our users a lot of stability.

As David said, Just my $0.02.

I would like to see more input from people though.  I've been  
travelling so I must have missed the vote to put it in.


Dain Sundstrom wrote:
I think now is the time to discuss if we want to commit the  
change from configId to moduleId.  If we decide to commit the  
patch, the timing of the actual commit will be determined by  
Kevan to have the smallest impact on the TCK.  The patch makes  
the following changes:

  o Renamed root element from "configuration" to "module"
  o Renamed environment element from "configId" to "moduleId"
  o Renamed schema from "geronimo-config-1.1.xsd" to "geronimo- 
module-1.1.xsd"
Based on conversations over the past few days, I think we all  
agree that "configuration" is a poor name choice, and we want to  
change it.  I also think that we all agree that if we are going  
to make the change we should change the xml schemas before 1.1  
ships to have minimal impact on users (we already have schema  
changes going into 1.1).

Should we commit?
-dain











Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-06 Thread John Sisson
I also was just about to suggest a .module extension, but after further 
thought, having an extension longer than three characters is likely to 
reintroduce the filename length issues (under geronimo\repository) on 
Windows during the builds.


How about .mod or .mdl.

John

Jason Dillon wrote:
I'd be happy if we never ended up calling any file a .[a-zA-Z]ar.  I 
think that the ear/war/rar thing is lame to start with, the folks that 
continue to use the same lame extension naming system (sar, har, dar, 
car) just perpetuate this silly system that Sun dropped on us.


If we need to use extensions to clarify what something is, then lets 
use something more sensible.  Like for a module, why not just use 
.module?  If you want to still say its a jar, then .module.jar, but 
please lets not make it a .mar.


--jason


On May 5, 2006, at 7:40 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:

Sounds like the consensus is to change it (although I don't remember 
a formal vote although I do remember the discussion).  For my part it 
sounds like we're changing the configId to moduleId to decrease 
confusion.  It seems odd that the modules are called CARs 
(Configuration Archives) or some such thing.  I think we're making 
the server more confusing because now less things actually line up 
from a naming perspective.


It just doesn't feel like we're giving our users a lot of stability.

As David said, Just my $0.02.

I would like to see more input from people though.  I've been 
travelling so I must have missed the vote to put it in.


Dain Sundstrom wrote:
I think now is the time to discuss if we want to commit the change 
from configId to moduleId.  If we decide to commit the patch, the 
timing of the actual commit will be determined by Kevan to have the 
smallest impact on the TCK.  The patch makes the following changes:

  o Renamed root element from "configuration" to "module"
  o Renamed environment element from "configId" to "moduleId"
  o Renamed schema from "geronimo-config-1.1.xsd" to 
"geronimo-module-1.1.xsd"
Based on conversations over the past few days, I think we all agree 
that "configuration" is a poor name choice, and we want to change 
it.  I also think that we all agree that if we are going to make the 
change we should change the xml schemas before 1.1 ships to have 
minimal impact on users (we already have schema changes going into 
1.1).

Should we commit?
-dain









Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-05 Thread Jason Dillon
I'd be happy if we never ended up calling any file a .[a-zA-Z]ar.  I  
think that the ear/war/rar thing is lame to start with, the folks  
that continue to use the same lame extension naming system (sar, har,  
dar, car) just perpetuate this silly system that Sun dropped on us.


If we need to use extensions to clarify what something is, then lets  
use something more sensible.  Like for a module, why not just  
use .module?  If you want to still say its a jar, then .module.jar,  
but please lets not make it a .mar.


--jason


On May 5, 2006, at 7:40 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:

Sounds like the consensus is to change it (although I don't  
remember a formal vote although I do remember the discussion).  For  
my part it sounds like we're changing the configId to moduleId to  
decrease confusion.  It seems odd that the modules are called CARs  
(Configuration Archives) or some such thing.  I think we're making  
the server more confusing because now less things actually line up  
from a naming perspective.


It just doesn't feel like we're giving our users a lot of stability.

As David said, Just my $0.02.

I would like to see more input from people though.  I've been  
travelling so I must have missed the vote to put it in.


Dain Sundstrom wrote:
I think now is the time to discuss if we want to commit the change  
from configId to moduleId.  If we decide to commit the patch, the  
timing of the actual commit will be determined by Kevan to have  
the smallest impact on the TCK.  The patch makes the following  
changes:

  o Renamed root element from "configuration" to "module"
  o Renamed environment element from "configId" to "moduleId"
  o Renamed schema from "geronimo-config-1.1.xsd" to "geronimo- 
module-1.1.xsd"
Based on conversations over the past few days, I think we all  
agree that "configuration" is a poor name choice, and we want to  
change it.  I also think that we all agree that if we are going to  
make the change we should change the xml schemas before 1.1 ships  
to have minimal impact on users (we already have schema changes  
going into 1.1).

Should we commit?
-dain






Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-05 Thread Matt Hogstrom

Dave,

thanks for the reminder of the vote.  I was thinking in terms of Dain's first note in this chain.  I 
believe I voted +1 in that original moduleId thread.  After considering this further I'm revising my 
opinion as I don't think we're solving the problem; just creating new ones.  I think I'd be more in 
favor of making the terminology consistent throughout the server but that is more than can be 
contained in 1.1.


Regardless, let's hear from Kevan.

Thanks for keeping me honest :)

Matt

David Blevins wrote:

On May 5, 2006, at 1:55 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:

I'll defer to the body of committers as to how important this is and 
if it should go into for 1.1. Personally I don't think it really 
matters what the name is.  ModuleId has its own set of baggage and so 
will everything else.  I'm more concerned about another disruptive 
change to the users which will eventually require them to change their 
plans.  Even if we decide to provide a conversion utility to bridge 
the gap for now we'll eventually deprecate it and force them to change.


My personal opinion is -0 and weould prefer to leave it alone.



We've already had a vote to change it, so the question is when.  If Dain 
is willing to back out the change immediately if it doesn't look good in 
the tck, then I'm fine with it now.


My $0.02

-David



Dain Sundstrom wrote:
I think now is the time to discuss if we want to commit the change 
from configId to moduleId.  If we decide to commit the patch, the 
timing of the actual commit will be determined by Kevan to have the 
smallest impact on the TCK.  The patch makes the following changes:

  o Renamed root element from "configuration" to "module"
  o Renamed environment element from "configId" to "moduleId"
  o Renamed schema from "geronimo-config-1.1.xsd" to 
"geronimo-module-1.1.xsd"
Based on conversations over the past few days, I think we all agree 
that "configuration" is a poor name choice, and we want to change 
it.  I also think that we all agree that if we are going to make the 
change we should change the xml schemas before 1.1 ships to have 
minimal impact on users (we already have schema changes going into 1.1).

Should we commit?
-dain









Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-05 Thread Matt Hogstrom
Sounds like the consensus is to change it (although I don't remember a formal vote although I do 
remember the discussion).  For my part it sounds like we're changing the configId to moduleId to 
decrease confusion.  It seems odd that the modules are called CARs (Configuration Archives) or some 
such thing.  I think we're making the server more confusing because now less things actually line up 
from a naming perspective.


It just doesn't feel like we're giving our users a lot of stability.

As David said, Just my $0.02.

I would like to see more input from people though.  I've been travelling so I must have missed the 
vote to put it in.


Dain Sundstrom wrote:
I think now is the time to discuss if we want to commit the change from 
configId to moduleId.  If we decide to commit the patch, the timing of 
the actual commit will be determined by Kevan to have the smallest 
impact on the TCK.  The patch makes the following changes:


  o Renamed root element from "configuration" to "module"
  o Renamed environment element from "configId" to "moduleId"
  o Renamed schema from "geronimo-config-1.1.xsd" to 
"geronimo-module-1.1.xsd"


Based on conversations over the past few days, I think we all agree that 
"configuration" is a poor name choice, and we want to change it.  I also 
think that we all agree that if we are going to make the change we 
should change the xml schemas before 1.1 ships to have minimal impact on 
users (we already have schema changes going into 1.1).


Should we commit?

-dain






Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-05 Thread Jason Dillon

I would say commit it, and if there are any major problems with the
tck, then we back out, otherwise I would rather us fix it for the tck
to pass and keep the change to use moduleId in 1.1.

--jason


On 5/5/06, David Blevins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On May 5, 2006, at 1:55 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:

> I'll defer to the body of committers as to how important this is
> and if it should go into for 1.1. Personally I don't think it
> really matters what the name is.  ModuleId has its own set of
> baggage and so will everything else.  I'm more concerned about
> another disruptive change to the users which will eventually
> require them to change their plans.  Even if we decide to provide a
> conversion utility to bridge the gap for now we'll eventually
> deprecate it and force them to change.
>
> My personal opinion is -0 and weould prefer to leave it alone.
>

We've already had a vote to change it, so the question is when.  If
Dain is willing to back out the change immediately if it doesn't look
good in the tck, then I'm fine with it now.

My $0.02

-David


> Dain Sundstrom wrote:
>> I think now is the time to discuss if we want to commit the change
>> from configId to moduleId.  If we decide to commit the patch, the
>> timing of the actual commit will be determined by Kevan to have
>> the smallest impact on the TCK.  The patch makes the following
>> changes:
>>   o Renamed root element from "configuration" to "module"
>>   o Renamed environment element from "configId" to "moduleId"
>>   o Renamed schema from "geronimo-config-1.1.xsd" to "geronimo-
>> module-1.1.xsd"
>> Based on conversations over the past few days, I think we all
>> agree that "configuration" is a poor name choice, and we want to
>> change it.  I also think that we all agree that if we are going to
>> make the change we should change the xml schemas before 1.1 ships
>> to have minimal impact on users (we already have schema changes
>> going into 1.1).
>> Should we commit?
>> -dain
>




Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-05 Thread John Sisson
I agree we should change it to have minimal impact on users and ISVs in 
future geronimo releases.  Hopefully future releases won't require major 
changes to the schema like in this release.  Leaving it as is may cause 
confusion when docs, articles etc. for different versions uses different 
terminology.  The earlier we change it, the less users will be impacted 
(as we will have more users using later releases).


John

Dain Sundstrom wrote:
I think now is the time to discuss if we want to commit the change 
from configId to moduleId.  If we decide to commit the patch, the 
timing of the actual commit will be determined by Kevan to have the 
smallest impact on the TCK.  The patch makes the following changes:


  o Renamed root element from "configuration" to "module"
  o Renamed environment element from "configId" to "moduleId"
  o Renamed schema from "geronimo-config-1.1.xsd" to 
"geronimo-module-1.1.xsd"


Based on conversations over the past few days, I think we all agree 
that "configuration" is a poor name choice, and we want to change it.  
I also think that we all agree that if we are going to make the change 
we should change the xml schemas before 1.1 ships to have minimal 
impact on users (we already have schema changes going into 1.1).


Should we commit?

-dain






Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-05 Thread David Blevins

On May 5, 2006, at 1:55 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:

I'll defer to the body of committers as to how important this is  
and if it should go into for 1.1. Personally I don't think it  
really matters what the name is.  ModuleId has its own set of  
baggage and so will everything else.  I'm more concerned about  
another disruptive change to the users which will eventually  
require them to change their plans.  Even if we decide to provide a  
conversion utility to bridge the gap for now we'll eventually  
deprecate it and force them to change.


My personal opinion is -0 and weould prefer to leave it alone.



We've already had a vote to change it, so the question is when.  If  
Dain is willing to back out the change immediately if it doesn't look  
good in the tck, then I'm fine with it now.


My $0.02

-David



Dain Sundstrom wrote:
I think now is the time to discuss if we want to commit the change  
from configId to moduleId.  If we decide to commit the patch, the  
timing of the actual commit will be determined by Kevan to have  
the smallest impact on the TCK.  The patch makes the following  
changes:

  o Renamed root element from "configuration" to "module"
  o Renamed environment element from "configId" to "moduleId"
  o Renamed schema from "geronimo-config-1.1.xsd" to "geronimo- 
module-1.1.xsd"
Based on conversations over the past few days, I think we all  
agree that "configuration" is a poor name choice, and we want to  
change it.  I also think that we all agree that if we are going to  
make the change we should change the xml schemas before 1.1 ships  
to have minimal impact on users (we already have schema changes  
going into 1.1).

Should we commit?
-dain






Re: Commit configId to moduleId?

2006-05-05 Thread Matt Hogstrom
I'll defer to the body of committers as to how important this is and if it should go into for 1.1. 
Personally I don't think it really matters what the name is.  ModuleId has its own set of baggage 
and so will everything else.  I'm more concerned about another disruptive change to the users which 
will eventually require them to change their plans.  Even if we decide to provide a conversion 
utility to bridge the gap for now we'll eventually deprecate it and force them to change.


My personal opinion is -0 and weould prefer to leave it alone.

Dain Sundstrom wrote:
I think now is the time to discuss if we want to commit the change from 
configId to moduleId.  If we decide to commit the patch, the timing of 
the actual commit will be determined by Kevan to have the smallest 
impact on the TCK.  The patch makes the following changes:


  o Renamed root element from "configuration" to "module"
  o Renamed environment element from "configId" to "moduleId"
  o Renamed schema from "geronimo-config-1.1.xsd" to 
"geronimo-module-1.1.xsd"


Based on conversations over the past few days, I think we all agree that 
"configuration" is a poor name choice, and we want to change it.  I also 
think that we all agree that if we are going to make the change we 
should change the xml schemas before 1.1 ships to have minimal impact on 
users (we already have schema changes going into 1.1).


Should we commit?

-dain