Re: Release most 1.4 specs?

2006-11-08 Thread Kevan Miller


On Nov 7, 2006, at 6:53 PM, Jason Dillon wrote:

I think we need to release the reorganized/repom'd specs... that  
was the general plan after cleaning them up was to make a release  
so we have a set of consistent non-SNAPSHOT specs to work off of.


After this re-release, we can debate one version, or whatever.  I'd  
still like to see one version win out, but I have yet to come up  
with the smoking gun argument to convince everyone that I'm not on  
crack.


BUT... for now, we gotta move forward with something.  Its easy  
enough to change later if we want.


I don't really understand why we can't resolve the versioning issue  
then release. I assume it's a timing issue. What is the current  
SNAPSHOT status of specs gating? I think we can certainly release  
before G 1.2 is ready to go...


IMO, neither solution is going to be perfect. No matter what decision  
we reach, somebody will be able to say "I told you so". I'd prefer we  
go one way or the other and not look back...


--kevan 


Re: Release most 1.4 specs?

2006-11-07 Thread Jason Dillon
I think we need to release the reorganized/repom'd specs... that was  
the general plan after cleaning them up was to make a release so we  
have a set of consistent non-SNAPSHOT specs to work off of.


After this re-release, we can debate one version, or whatever.  I'd  
still like to see one version win out, but I have yet to come up with  
the smoking gun argument to convince everyone that I'm not on crack.


BUT... for now, we gotta move forward with something.  Its easy  
enough to change later if we want.


--jason


On Nov 7, 2006, at 9:21 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:



On Nov 7, 2006, at 11:28 AM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:



Are you kidding me?  You want to open this up for discussion again  
just as we were going to finally make some progress and hopefully  
put this to bed.  The reorganization we just did was to have one  
version number per spec.


Well, as you have probably guessed, I'm not. You aren't putting  
this to "bed". You're ignoring it. I'd like to put it to bed.


We agreed to reorg specs. We did not decide whether or not to  
release specs in independent or interlocked version numbers. Isn't  
that what we discussed on [EMAIL PROTECTED]




As you can see, I am totally against changing what we have right  
now, one version per spec.


Fine. And I'm against releasing a bunch of specs, for which we've  
gotten the version numbers wrong for twice in this discussion  
thread. If we can't keep them straight, now, seems like we're  
destined for confusion in the future.


So, you and I cancel each other out. Why don't we let the community  
decide and move on? I'm happy to abide by our decision...


P.S. I'd assumed that we'd be passing TCK before releasing the  
specs (at least that's how we've operated in the past). There's  
some risk (probably pretty small) that we'll uncover a problem with  
specs with our testing. Are you planning on releasing prior to tck  
passing or afterward?


--kevan




Re: Release most 1.4 specs?

2006-11-07 Thread Jason Dillon

On Nov 7, 2006, at 9:12 AM, David Blevins wrote:
Before we release them can we mark the deps of these specs with  
"provided"?  Especially anything that's also in JEE  
5 that requires JTA and anything that requires QName.


I think its fine for the JavaEE5 specs, but not sure how builds might  
react to the change for others... but I have not really tried to see  
how G behaves.



Also, some people are using them outside of Geronimo and have been  
having 1.3 compatibility issues with our specs (like OpenJPA).  For  
those that can compile with 1.3 can we mark them in the pom to  
compile that way?


Sounds like a good idea.

--jason



Re: Release most 1.4 specs?

2006-11-07 Thread Kevan Miller


On Nov 7, 2006, at 12:24 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:



Upon closer inspection we never closed this issue.  Sorry.


No problem. We've created a twisted path... Easy to see how we've  
confused ourselves. Even odds that I was wrong... ;-)


--kevan





Re: Release most 1.4 specs?

2006-11-07 Thread Kevan Miller


On Nov 7, 2006, at 12:00 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:

We seem to have a process problem from what I can tell.  I seem to  
recall a few votes and no activity on this subject (perhaps someone  
can help to correct my flawed view of the world).


Can the vote initiators summarize the previous votes and proposed  
actions?  I'm not sure why this is still being discussed but I  
would feel a whole lot better if we had a vote consensus.  What was  
the last vote proposed and what was the action and majority outcome?


IMO, Jason's following note pretty well recorded the point we'd  
reached last month:


On Oct 24, 2006, at 6:53 PM, Jason Dillon wrote:

Folks... this vote has been lingering for way to long... some of the
in-flight debate/discussion kinda threw us off track.

I believe that we should implement the solution we have described here
for now and if needed continue discussion and debate about how to
handle this better... BUT, I think we must do something now and I
think that this is good enough.

Here is a tally of the votes cast so far:


+1: jdillon, dblevins, dain, bsnyder, bdudney, gnodet, pmcmahan,
jbohn, rmcguire, hogstrom
+0: jacek

And after some debate:
+1: kevan, alan


While I, djencks, kevan and a few others have expressed some desire
for one version for all specs, and many other have expressed
objection... I do believe that we need to do something to get specs
into a publishable state NOW.

So, unless anyone screams loudly, I am going to implement the changes
described below as an intermediate solution.  Once this is done (and
once people comes back to life) we can publish a new set of SNAPSHOT
artifacts and remove the need for the specs build in bootstrap...
which is one step closer to not needing bootstrap.

This may not be the final solution... but its one step closer... and
since we have not moved at all on this for quite some time I think any
movement is better than none at all.


--kevan


Re: Release most 1.4 specs?

2006-11-07 Thread Dain Sundstrom

On Nov 7, 2006, at 8:28 AM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:


On Nov 7, 2006, at 5:52 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:


On Nov 6, 2006, at 7:53 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:

What do yo think of releasing the 1.4 specs (v1.2) included with  
our server?  After a quick inspection of the specs we have in  
trunk, I think they break down as follows.


I'd like to get the stuff in the release category out ASAP and  
maybe an preview release of the stuff in the wait category.


So what do you think?


Now that the specs are reorganized, isn't this the time to have  
the specs versioning discussion?


IMO, a single version of specs will be easier for us and users of  
our specs. I'll note that this thread already documents an error/ 
typo in describing the versions of specs to be released.


We've been around the block several times on this issue. Let's get  
any discussions finalized and put the issue to a vote. Agreed?  
I'll get the discussion started...


Are you kidding me?  You want to open this up for discussion again  
just as we were going to finally make some progress and hopefully  
put this to bed.  The reorganization we just did was to have one  
version number per spec.


Upon closer inspection we never closed this issue.  Sorry.

-dain



Re: Release most 1.4 specs?

2006-11-07 Thread Kevan Miller


On Nov 7, 2006, at 11:28 AM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:



Are you kidding me?  You want to open this up for discussion again  
just as we were going to finally make some progress and hopefully  
put this to bed.  The reorganization we just did was to have one  
version number per spec.


Well, as you have probably guessed, I'm not. You aren't putting this  
to "bed". You're ignoring it. I'd like to put it to bed.


We agreed to reorg specs. We did not decide whether or not to release  
specs in independent or interlocked version numbers. Isn't that what  
we discussed on [EMAIL PROTECTED]




As you can see, I am totally against changing what we have right  
now, one version per spec.


Fine. And I'm against releasing a bunch of specs, for which we've  
gotten the version numbers wrong for twice in this discussion thread.  
If we can't keep them straight, now, seems like we're destined for  
confusion in the future.


So, you and I cancel each other out. Why don't we let the community  
decide and move on? I'm happy to abide by our decision...


P.S. I'd assumed that we'd be passing TCK before releasing the specs  
(at least that's how we've operated in the past). There's some risk  
(probably pretty small) that we'll uncover a problem with specs with  
our testing. Are you planning on releasing prior to tck passing or  
afterward?


--kevan


Re: Release most 1.4 specs?

2006-11-07 Thread David Blevins
Before we release them can we mark the deps of these specs with  
"provided"?  Especially anything that's also in JEE 5  
that requires JTA and anything that requires QName.


Also, some people are using them outside of Geronimo and have been  
having 1.3 compatibility issues with our specs (like OpenJPA).  For  
those that can compile with 1.3 can we mark them in the pom to  
compile that way?


-David

On Nov 6, 2006, at 4:53 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:


Release:
geronimo-activation_1.0.2_spec/
geronimo-ejb_2.1_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-connector_1.5_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-deployment_1.1_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-jacc_1.0_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-management_1.0_spec/
geronimo-javamail_1.3.1_spec/
geronimo-jaxr_1.0_spec/
geronimo-jaxrpc_1.1_spec/
geronimo-jms_1.1_spec/
geronimo-jsp_2.0_spec/
geronimo-jta_1.0.1B_spec/
geronimo-qname_1.1_spec/
geronimo-saaj_1.1_spec/
geronimo-servlet_2.4_spec/







Re: Release most 1.4 specs?

2006-11-07 Thread Matt Hogstrom
We seem to have a process problem from what I can tell.  I seem to  
recall a few votes and no activity on this subject (perhaps someone  
can help to correct my flawed view of the world).


Can the vote initiators summarize the previous votes and proposed  
actions?  I'm not sure why this is still being discussed but I would  
feel a whole lot better if we had a vote consensus.  What was the  
last vote proposed and what was the action and majority outcome?


Matt Hogstrom
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





Re: Release most 1.4 specs?

2006-11-07 Thread Dain Sundstrom

On Nov 7, 2006, at 5:52 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:


On Nov 6, 2006, at 7:53 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:

What do yo think of releasing the 1.4 specs (v1.2) included with  
our server?  After a quick inspection of the specs we have in  
trunk, I think they break down as follows.


I'd like to get the stuff in the release category out ASAP and  
maybe an preview release of the stuff in the wait category.


So what do you think?


Now that the specs are reorganized, isn't this the time to have the  
specs versioning discussion?


IMO, a single version of specs will be easier for us and users of  
our specs. I'll note that this thread already documents an error/ 
typo in describing the versions of specs to be released.


We've been around the block several times on this issue. Let's get  
any discussions finalized and put the issue to a vote. Agreed? I'll  
get the discussion started...


Are you kidding me?  You want to open this up for discussion again  
just as we were going to finally make some progress and hopefully put  
this to bed.  The reorganization we just did was to have one version  
number per spec.


As you can see, I am totally against changing what we have right now,  
one version per spec.


-dain


Re: Release most 1.4 specs?

2006-11-07 Thread Kevan Miller


On Nov 6, 2006, at 7:53 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:

What do yo think of releasing the 1.4 specs (v1.2) included with  
our server?  After a quick inspection of the specs we have in  
trunk, I think they break down as follows.


I'd like to get the stuff in the release category out ASAP and  
maybe an preview release of the stuff in the wait category.


So what do you think?


Now that the specs are reorganized, isn't this the time to have the  
specs versioning discussion?


IMO, a single version of specs will be easier for us and users of our  
specs. I'll note that this thread already documents an error/typo in  
describing the versions of specs to be released.


We've been around the block several times on this issue. Let's get  
any discussions finalized and put the issue to a vote. Agreed? I'll  
get the discussion started...


--kevan


Re: Release most 1.4 specs?

2006-11-06 Thread Jason Dillon

FYI... I'm +1 on doing this.

--jason


On Nov 6, 2006, at 5:28 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:


Oops, sorry about the typo :)

-dain

On Nov 6, 2006, at 5:11 PM, Jason Dillon wrote:

FYI, the version of these specs will not all be released as 1.2,  
some are 1.1 (as they are 1.1-SNAPSHOT now)... in fact most would  
be released as 1.1.


--jason


On Nov 6, 2006, at 4:53 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:

What do yo think of releasing the 1.4 specs (v1.2) included with  
our server?  After a quick inspection of the specs we have in  
trunk, I think they break down as follows.


I'd like to get the stuff in the release category out ASAP and  
maybe an preview release of the stuff in the wait category.


So what do you think?

-dain



Release:
geronimo-activation_1.0.2_spec/
geronimo-ejb_2.1_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-connector_1.5_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-deployment_1.1_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-jacc_1.0_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-management_1.0_spec/
geronimo-javamail_1.3.1_spec/
geronimo-jaxr_1.0_spec/
geronimo-jaxrpc_1.1_spec/
geronimo-jms_1.1_spec/
geronimo-jsp_2.0_spec/
geronimo-jta_1.0.1B_spec/
geronimo-qname_1.1_spec/
geronimo-saaj_1.1_spec/
geronimo-servlet_2.4_spec/

Wait:
geronimo-activation_1.1_spec/
geronimo-annotation_1.0_spec/
geronimo-commonj_1.1_spec/
geronimo-ejb_3.0_spec/
geronimo-interceptor_3.0_spec/
geronimo-javamail_1.4_spec/
geronimo-jpa_3.0_spec/
geronimo-jta_1.1_spec/
geronimo-servlet_2.5_spec/
geronimo-ws-metadata_2.0_spec/

Delete:
geronimo-corba_2.3_spec - Replaced with Yoko
geronimo-corba_3.0_spec - Replaced with Yoko
geronimo-spec-corba - Replaced with Yoko








Re: Release most 1.4 specs?

2006-11-06 Thread Dain Sundstrom

Oops, sorry about the typo :)

-dain

On Nov 6, 2006, at 5:11 PM, Jason Dillon wrote:

FYI, the version of these specs will not all be released as 1.2,  
some are 1.1 (as they are 1.1-SNAPSHOT now)... in fact most would  
be released as 1.1.


--jason


On Nov 6, 2006, at 4:53 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:

What do yo think of releasing the 1.4 specs (v1.2) included with  
our server?  After a quick inspection of the specs we have in  
trunk, I think they break down as follows.


I'd like to get the stuff in the release category out ASAP and  
maybe an preview release of the stuff in the wait category.


So what do you think?

-dain



Release:
geronimo-activation_1.0.2_spec/
geronimo-ejb_2.1_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-connector_1.5_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-deployment_1.1_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-jacc_1.0_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-management_1.0_spec/
geronimo-javamail_1.3.1_spec/
geronimo-jaxr_1.0_spec/
geronimo-jaxrpc_1.1_spec/
geronimo-jms_1.1_spec/
geronimo-jsp_2.0_spec/
geronimo-jta_1.0.1B_spec/
geronimo-qname_1.1_spec/
geronimo-saaj_1.1_spec/
geronimo-servlet_2.4_spec/

Wait:
geronimo-activation_1.1_spec/
geronimo-annotation_1.0_spec/
geronimo-commonj_1.1_spec/
geronimo-ejb_3.0_spec/
geronimo-interceptor_3.0_spec/
geronimo-javamail_1.4_spec/
geronimo-jpa_3.0_spec/
geronimo-jta_1.1_spec/
geronimo-servlet_2.5_spec/
geronimo-ws-metadata_2.0_spec/

Delete:
geronimo-corba_2.3_spec - Replaced with Yoko
geronimo-corba_3.0_spec - Replaced with Yoko
geronimo-spec-corba - Replaced with Yoko






Re: Release most 1.4 specs?

2006-11-06 Thread Jason Dillon
FYI, the version of these specs will not all be released as 1.2, some  
are 1.1 (as they are 1.1-SNAPSHOT now)... in fact most would be  
released as 1.1.


--jason


On Nov 6, 2006, at 4:53 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:

What do yo think of releasing the 1.4 specs (v1.2) included with  
our server?  After a quick inspection of the specs we have in  
trunk, I think they break down as follows.


I'd like to get the stuff in the release category out ASAP and  
maybe an preview release of the stuff in the wait category.


So what do you think?

-dain



Release:
geronimo-activation_1.0.2_spec/
geronimo-ejb_2.1_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-connector_1.5_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-deployment_1.1_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-jacc_1.0_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-management_1.0_spec/
geronimo-javamail_1.3.1_spec/
geronimo-jaxr_1.0_spec/
geronimo-jaxrpc_1.1_spec/
geronimo-jms_1.1_spec/
geronimo-jsp_2.0_spec/
geronimo-jta_1.0.1B_spec/
geronimo-qname_1.1_spec/
geronimo-saaj_1.1_spec/
geronimo-servlet_2.4_spec/

Wait:
geronimo-activation_1.1_spec/
geronimo-annotation_1.0_spec/
geronimo-commonj_1.1_spec/
geronimo-ejb_3.0_spec/
geronimo-interceptor_3.0_spec/
geronimo-javamail_1.4_spec/
geronimo-jpa_3.0_spec/
geronimo-jta_1.1_spec/
geronimo-servlet_2.5_spec/
geronimo-ws-metadata_2.0_spec/

Delete:
geronimo-corba_2.3_spec - Replaced with Yoko
geronimo-corba_3.0_spec - Replaced with Yoko
geronimo-spec-corba - Replaced with Yoko






Re: Release most 1.4 specs?

2006-11-06 Thread David Jencks


On Nov 6, 2006, at 4:53 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:

What do yo think of releasing the 1.4 specs (v1.2) included with  
our server?  After a quick inspection of the specs we have in  
trunk, I think they break down as follows.


I'd like to get the stuff in the release category out ASAP


excellent

and maybe an preview release of the stuff in the wait category.


good idea, are you thinking like 1.2-rc1?

thanks
david jencks



So what do you think?

-dain



Release:
geronimo-activation_1.0.2_spec/
geronimo-ejb_2.1_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-connector_1.5_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-deployment_1.1_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-jacc_1.0_spec/
geronimo-j2ee-management_1.0_spec/
geronimo-javamail_1.3.1_spec/
geronimo-jaxr_1.0_spec/
geronimo-jaxrpc_1.1_spec/
geronimo-jms_1.1_spec/
geronimo-jsp_2.0_spec/
geronimo-jta_1.0.1B_spec/
geronimo-qname_1.1_spec/
geronimo-saaj_1.1_spec/
geronimo-servlet_2.4_spec/

Wait:
geronimo-activation_1.1_spec/
geronimo-annotation_1.0_spec/
geronimo-commonj_1.1_spec/
geronimo-ejb_3.0_spec/
geronimo-interceptor_3.0_spec/
geronimo-javamail_1.4_spec/
geronimo-jpa_3.0_spec/
geronimo-jta_1.1_spec/
geronimo-servlet_2.5_spec/
geronimo-ws-metadata_2.0_spec/

Delete:
geronimo-corba_2.3_spec - Replaced with Yoko
geronimo-corba_3.0_spec - Replaced with Yoko
geronimo-spec-corba - Replaced with Yoko