Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-11 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user ArnavBalyan edited a comment on the discussion: Add a new backend: 
Bolt

+1 thanks for the proposal bolt definitely looks promising. It would be great 
to have these details into a Proposal doc which can outline some of the 
technical integration with Gluten, and get it reviewed from the community in 
depth. PR review times and hard to get reviews is a long standing problem, 
hopefully issues can be addressed

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15751964


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-11 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user ArnavBalyan edited a comment on the discussion: Add a new backend: 
Bolt

+1 thanks for the proposal bolt definitely looks promising. It would be great 
to have these details into a Proposal doc which can outline some of the 
technical integration with Gluten, and get it reviewed from the community in 
depth. PR review times and hard to get reviews is a long standing problem, 
hopefully such concerns can be addressed

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15751964


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-11 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user FelixYBW added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

Guys, one thing to clarify and reminder, Bytedance is the first round company 
who joint Gluten community since we started. There are several Gluten 
committers from Bytedance and they also contributed much to our community.


GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15777292


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-11 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user FelixYBW edited a comment on the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

>Gluten still needs to maintain its own use cases, and the proposed community 
>support model raises concerns.
The idea of “assigning” community members sounds more like an internal work 
arrangement rather than participation driven by open-source interest. If those 
three members change roles or priorities in the future, this commitment may no 
longer hold. In that case, the sustainability assumption behind this support 
model would break. This makes the project feel closer to an internal corporate 
project, and it risks losing the essence of an open-source community.

It's actually from my suggestion. I was thinking to refer to current Clickhouse 
backend way that once we have some clickhouse issue during Velox development, 
especially CI issues, we mostly ping @zzcclp to solve or review. Similarly, to 
mostly ease velox and Clickhouse backend's development,  I suggested Bolt 
backend also should have some guys we can ping to get help. The worst case is 
that if no one mentain Bolt backend one day, we will have to remove it or 
freeze it from Gluten. It's the same thing in Velox and Clickhouse backend 
actually. Like no one maintain velox backend, we will have to remove or freeze 
it. 

Also please note there is no fundamental difference of Velox and Bolt, they are 
both corporate projects now, velox is even more closed as cooperate project 
that we can't get any real committers in no matter how much we contributed and 
how hard we tried. On the other side Bolt already WIP to submit Apache 
incubatoring request and build LF foundation on failure of Apache. Bolt welcome 
PRs from outside and would like to join as initial committers.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15777164


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-11 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user FelixYBW added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

> The current contributor base of Bolt is highly concentrated within ByteDance.

It's more like a chiken and egg issue. If Bolt isn't in, no one would like to 
contribute. Once bolt join the game with more maturality and openness, customer 
may move.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15777259


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-11 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user FelixYBW edited a comment on the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

>Gluten still needs to maintain its own use cases, and the proposed community 
>support model raises concerns.
The idea of “assigning” community members sounds more like an internal work 
arrangement rather than participation driven by open-source interest. If those 
three members change roles or priorities in the future, this commitment may no 
longer hold. In that case, the sustainability assumption behind this support 
model would break. This makes the project feel closer to an internal corporate 
project, and it risks losing the essence of an open-source community.

It's actually from my suggestion. I was thinking to refer to current Clickhouse 
backend way that once we have some clickhouse issue during Velox development, 
especially CI issues, we mostly ping @zzcclp to solve or review. Similarly, to 
mostly ease velox and Clickhouse backend's development,  I suggested Bolt 
backend also should have some guys we can ping to get help. The worst case is 
that if no one mentain Bolt backend one day, we will have to remove it or 
freeze it from Gluten. It's the same thing in Velox and Clickhouse backend 
actually. Like no one maintain velox backend, we will have to remove or freeze 
it. 

Also please note there is no fundamental difference of Velox and Bolt, they are 
both corporate projects, velox is even more closed as cooperate project that we 
can't get any real committers in no matter how much we contributed and how hard 
we tried. On the other side Bolt already WIP to submit Apache incubatoring 
request and build LF foundation on failure of Apache. Bolt welcome PRs from 
outside and would like to join as initial committers.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15777164


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-11 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user FelixYBW added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

>Gluten still needs to maintain its own use cases, and the proposed community 
>support model raises concerns.
The idea of “assigning” community members sounds more like an internal work 
arrangement rather than participation driven by open-source interest. If those 
three members change roles or priorities in the future, this commitment may no 
longer hold. In that case, the sustainability assumption behind this support 
model would break. This makes the project feel closer to an internal corporate 
project, and it risks losing the essence of an open-source community.

It's actually from my suggestion. I was thinking to refer to current Clickhouse 
backend way that once we have some clickhouse issue during Velox development, 
especially CI issues, we mostly ping @zzcclp to solve or review. Similarly, to 
mostly ease velox and Clickhouse backend's development,  I suggested Bolt 
backend also should have some guys we can ping to get help. The worst case is 
that if no one mentain Bolt backend one day, we will have to remove it or 
freeze it from Gluten. It's the same thing in Velox and Clickhouse backend 
actually. Like no one maintain velox backend, we will have to remove or freeze 
it. 

Also please note there is no fundamental difference of Velox and Bolt, they are 
both corporate projects, velox is even more closed as cooperate project that we 
can't get any real committers in no matter how much we contributed and how hard 
we tried.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15777164


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-10 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user liuneng1994 added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: 
Bolt

The comparison with GPU/Flink support is not appropriate.
GPU and Flink support add new, non-overlapping capabilities to the ecosystem, 
whereas Bolt is essentially a downstream fork of Velox. These two cases are 
fundamentally different in nature, so drawing a direct analogy between them is 
misleading.


Gluten still needs to maintain its own use cases, and the proposed community 
support model raises concerns.
The idea of “assigning” community members sounds more like an internal work 
arrangement rather than participation driven by open-source interest. If those 
three members change roles or priorities in the future, this commitment may no 
longer hold. In that case, the sustainability assumption behind this support 
model would break. This makes the project feel closer to an internal corporate 
project, and it risks losing the essence of an open-source community.


The current contributor base of Bolt is highly concentrated within ByteDance.
At the moment, almost all open-source contributions to Bolt come from 
ByteDance. This situation reminds me of the ByteHouse and ClickHouse 
relationship: when an open-source compute engine fails to attract a broader and 
more diverse contributor base, it becomes problematic in the long run. I 
believe this would not be a positive outcome for the Gluten community either.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15763890


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-10 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user FelixYBW added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

Some comments of what I know:

> So, bolt is going to replace velox entirely in gluten

It's up to customer actually, just like Clickhouse vs. Velox. Customer will do 
the choices depending on various reasons.

> As a fork of velox, why the integration for bolt result in a 260k+ patch? It 
> doesn't look a right way to maintain. What's the amount of duplication? 
> Consider a better approach such as new API exposure?

Duplicated code is because we need to seperate the two backend's development 
initially. Then we may rebase the code, remove the duplications, align the 
APIs, achieve similar even better code layout compared to Velox vs. Clickhouse. 
It takes time and we need a start point.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15762962


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-10 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user wangxinshuo-bolt edited a comment on the discussion: Add a new 
backend: Bolt

> > Bolt can dynamically over-issue memory after reaching the off-heap 
> > configuration value based on the actual physical memory usage, thereby 
> > reducing the amount of spilled data, improving performance, and reducing 
> > the risk of OOM.
> 
> Looking forward to see this open-sourced — especially how it helps avoid OOM. 
> We’ve been struggling with that a lot.

@boneanxs We have implemented all memory management functions in Bolt, so `Bolt 
can dynamically over-issue memory after reaching the off-heap configuration 
value based on the actual physical memory usage`. The specific code is here:
https://github.com/bytedance/bolt/blob/c9b1507b696edbae28d5133d6d512a1eac77e446/bolt/common/memory/sparksql/ExecutionMemoryPool.cpp#L347-L419


We will also refactor the memory module later to avoid shortcomings of the 
existing mechanism. All planning and discussions will be conducted in the bolt 
repo's issues.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15738427


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-10 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user yaooqinn added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

> Both projects are following Apache 2.0 license, Bolt's dependency is declared 
> in [NOTICE.txt](https://github.com/bytedance/bolt/blob/main/NOTICE.txt). We 
> are here to address any specific legal concerns, though there are no known 
> issues to our knowledge.

In terms of OSS license, yup, it's legal. But socially and technically weird.

What is bolt's future plan? A permanently independent fork with no intention to 
stay aligned long‑term? Or an upstream-first fork where new work goes upstream 
ASAP? Or a downstream first fork keeps cherry-picking without feedback?

> Bolt backend https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/pull/11261 only fork 
> and modify the existing backends-velox (whose IP belongs to Gluten repository 
> & ASF) without any Velox-related code

Yes, I also mean it's just a requirement for this patch. For velox, that's a 
problem for you to tackle in incubator, not here

> Bolt is open to accepts commits from Gluten commits. Internally, every Bolt 
> commit is checked against all DBMS integration including Spark-on-Gluten to 
> ensure the stability. Currently Gluten backends-velox depends on ibm/velox 
> which requires frequent rebases with upstream so Bolt backend reduces the 
> long-term maintenance cost without messy rebase burden and providing first 
> party supports on Gluten integration.

So, bolt is going to replace velox entirely in gluten, then the reduction of 
maintenance you've mentioned could actually happen. Do you have a clear plan 
for that？

As a fork of velox, why the integration for bolt result in a 260k+ patch? It 
doesn't look a right way to maintain. What's the amount of duplication? 
Consider a better approach such as new API exposure?

If spark adds a new feature or function, the gluten contributors need to apply 
an identical patch to velox and bolt, right? Otherwise, Technical debt 
accumulates quickly.

CI cost increase, the PR process as well

> Assuming you refer to "vendor-neutral", Bolt project is in the process of 
> submitting a proposal to ASF incubator, targeting 26Q1. We deeply value and 
> encourage contributions from Gluten community to build the future of native 
> engine acceleration. The merge of Bolt backend to the main branch is a 
> foundational step to expose Spark-on-Bolt capability for community adoption 
> which in return pushes the project to be "vendor-neutral".

A proposal to ASF incubator does not represent vendor-neutral.

You encourage others to contribute bolt, that's good, but bolt itself does not 
follow the upstream-first practice. We're in an awkward position.




GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15755264


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-09 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user FelixYBW added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/pull/11261#issuecomment-3621625940

SF500 on r6id.16xlarge, data is stored in local ssd. query is from 
https://github.com/prestodb/pbench/tree/tpc-queries-for-spark/benchmarks/tpc-ds/queries

See if you can reproduce.


GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15752393


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-09 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user Yohahaha added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

> Since I began testing Bolt

@FelixYBW would you share your test results for performance?

> significant 22% performance enhancement over existing gluten backend on the 
> TPC-DS 1T benchmark

22% e2e boost mentioned from Bolt vote mail, but I can not find any detailed 
test limitation like which data storage was tested? what major optimizations 
contributes this boost?

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15752334


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-09 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user ArnavBalyan added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: 
Bolt

+1 thanks for the proposal bolt definitely looks promising. It would be great 
to have these details into a Proposal doc which can outline some of the 
technical integration with Gluten. PR review times and hard to get reviews is a 
long standing problem, hopefully Bolt can address some of these, thanks for the 
proposal.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15751964


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-09 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user baibaichen added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: 
Bolt

I suggest we postpone the discussion of adding Bolt as a new backend until 
Gluten itself graduates from the incubator. I have discussed this privately 
with @WangGuangxin as well. The primary reason is to minimize potential risks 
and uncertainties during Gluten's critical incubation phase.

Regarding the ecosystem, given the issues we've seen with Velox, I strongly 
hope Bolt can eventually join the Apache Software Foundation or the Linux 
Foundation.

The recent changes in the companies of Gluten maintainers serve as a perfect 
example: precisely because Gluten is an Apache project with clear governance, 
these personnel changes did not introduce significant risks to the project's 
continuity. I believe Bolt following a similar governance model would be 
crucial for its long-term health and integration.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15749989


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-09 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user FelixYBW added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

+1

The essence of open source is "all for one and one for all." The reason Gluten 
has reached its current level of maturity and widespread adoption is precisely 
because our countless users have resolved numerous bugs during their own 
deployments, preventing those who follow from repeating the same mistakes.

However, the Velox community has consistently struggled with excessively long 
PR review times, or even a complete lack of reviews. The latest example is 
[Issue #11534](https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/issues/11534), which 
could have saved us from a massive amount of redundant testing recently. While 
we could cherry-pick these PRs into ibm/velox (or your specific fork), the 
current rebase effort is already becoming overwhelming. Consequently, we have 
had to create an 
[issue](https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/issues/11585) to track 
unmerged PRs from the Gluten community so that customers can selectively pick 
them as needed.

Since I began testing Bolt, I can confirm that everything mentioned by 
@frankobe is true. Introducing a new, more open backend will only benefit the 
long-term development of Gluten.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15749730


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-09 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user frankobe added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

@yaooqinn Thanks for sharing the sincere concerns in thread 
https://lists.apache.org/thread/d4oq3oydrzcndyphvfh3gnr6v08jxvp9. The 
discussion on Bolt backed is opened on Oct 23, 2025 but I would love to provide 
more context just in case

> 1. `PMC` shall not be used in a podling for formal vote, use PPMC instead.
> 2. `According to the Apache voting process, we need at least 3 +1 votes
> from PMC members/Committers and more +1 than -1 votes in total.`
> This isn't true, only PPMC member vote casts.

Thanks for the correction. We will follow your recommendations in the next 
round of voting.

> 3. Based on the relationship between bolt and velox, I think we need a 
> clarification about the legal issues.

Both projects are following Apache 2.0 license, Bolt's dependency is declared 
in [NOTICE.txt](https://github.com/bytedance/bolt/blob/main/NOTICE.txt). We are 
here to address any specific legal concerns, though there are no known issues 
to our knowledge. 

> 4. If we do reach a consensus later, for such a huge contribution, I insist 
> that Intellectual property clearance - Apache Incubator 
>  also need to be done, before any 
> code get merged in.

Bolt backend [PR](https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/pull/11261) only 
fork and modify the existing `backends-velox` (whose  IP belongs to Gluten 
repository & ASF) without any Velox-related code. 

> 4. I'm wondering that this just increase long-term maintenance cost

Bolt is open to accepts commits from Gluten commits. Internally, every Bolt 
commit is checked against all DBMS integration including Spark-on-Gluten to 
ensure the stability. Currently Gluten backends-velox depends on `ibm/velox` 
which requires frequent rebases with upstream so Bolt backend reduces the 
long-term maintenance cost without messy rebase burden and providing first 
party supports on Gluten integration.

> 5. Also, is bolt vendor-natural?

Assuming you refer to "vendor-neutral", Bolt project is in the process of 
submitting a proposal to ASF incubator, targeting 26Q1. We deeply value and 
encourage contributions from Gluten community to build the future of native 
engine acceleration. The merge of Bolt backend to the main branch is a 
foundational step to expose Spark-on-Bolt capability for community adoption 
which in return pushes the project to be "vendor-neutral". 

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15749668


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-09 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user frankobe edited a comment on the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

@liuneng1994 Thanks for sharing your concerns in thread 
https://lists.apache.org/thread/9ry0jjydsvztnrosymlwzspdv4hdsvp1, I would like 
to justify it by providing more context 

>  1. Limited open-source impact and ecosystem maturity

Bolt has proved enterprise-grade maturity through massive internal adoptions 
within ByteDance on multiple product lines. The ecosystem is strengthening 
through direct & transparent collaboration with not only Gluten project, but 
also with OpenSearch / Flink / Paimon / Celeborn etc.

The maturity of project is the joint goal between Gluten & Bolt community, 
instead of the prerequisite on the code merge. Following  the project history 
of Gazelle/Gluten, I witness how Gluten community pioneers to adopt existing 
backends at early, inmature stage and foster Flink & GPU support even nowadays 
so I would appreciate the similar standard on the Bolt backend.

>  2. Increased long-term maintenance cost

Bolt is open to accepts commits from Gluten commits. Internally, every Bolt 
commit is checked against all DBMS integration including Spark-on-Gluten to 
ensure the stability. Currently Gluten `backends-velox` depends on ibm/velox 
which requires frequent rebases with upstream so Bolt backend will reduce the 
long-term maintenance cost without messy rebase burden and providing first 
party supports on Gluten integration

> 3. Significant added pressure on GitHub Actions CI

Similar to existing maintenance model on backends-clickhouse, Github Actions CI 
on Bolt backend will run on **additional** compute resources provided by Bolt 
project to ensure the task bandwidth. To further enhance the transparency, run 
history and logs are available for public access. You can check the health on 
existing Bolt [Github action run](https://github.com/bytedance/bolt/actions). 
On the top of CI resource, as stated in the [voting 
message](https://lists.apache.org/thread/lh5gos0hrg79pnhmjcpkv83fk6pwp9lq), 
Bolt community will assign 3 dedicated members to maintain the stability of 
Gluten & Bolt integration.

> 4. Unclear readiness for community governance and sustainability

Bolt deeply values the "Apache Way" on community governance since day 1. We are 
in the process of submitting a proposal to ASF incubator. 

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15749520


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-09 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user frankobe edited a comment on the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

@liuneng1994 Thanks for sharing your concerns in thread 
https://lists.apache.org/thread/9ry0jjydsvztnrosymlwzspdv4hdsvp1, I would like 
to justify it by providing more context 

>  1. Limited open-source impact and ecosystem maturity

Bolt has proved enterprise-grade maturity through massive internal adoptions 
within ByteDance on multiple product lines. The ecosystem is strengthening 
through direct & transparent collaboration with not only Gluten project, but 
also with OpenSearch / Flink / Paimon / Celeborn etc.

The maturity of project is the joint goal between Gluten & Bolt community, 
instead of the prerequisite on the code merge. Following  the project history 
of Gazelle/Gluten, I witness how Gluten community pioneers to adopt existing 
backends at early, inmature stage and foster Flink & GPU support even nowadays 
so I would appreciate the similar standard on the Bolt backend.

>  2. Increased long-term maintenance cost

Bolt is open to accepts commits from Gluten commits Internally, every Bolt 
commit is checked against all DBMS integration including Spark-on-Gluten to 
ensure the stability. Currently Gluten `backends-velox` depends on ibm/velox 
which requires frequent rebases with upstream so Bolt backend will reduce the 
long-term maintenance cost without messy rebase burden and providing first 
party supports on Gluten integration

> 3. Significant added pressure on GitHub Actions CI

Similar to existing maintenance model on backends-clickhouse, Github Actions CI 
on Bolt backend will run on **additional** compute resources provided by Bolt 
project to ensure the task bandwidth. To further enhance the transparency, run 
history and logs are available for public access. You can check the health on 
existing Bolt [Github action run](https://github.com/bytedance/bolt/actions). 
On the top of CI resource, as stated in the [voting 
message](https://lists.apache.org/thread/lh5gos0hrg79pnhmjcpkv83fk6pwp9lq), 
Bolt community will assign 3 dedicated members to maintain the stability of 
Gluten & Bolt integration.

> 4. Unclear readiness for community governance and sustainability

Bolt deeply values the "Apache Way" on community governance since day 1. We are 
in the process of submitting a proposal to ASF incubator. 

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15749520


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-09 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user frankobe added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

@liuneng1994 Thanks for sharing your concerns in thread 
https://lists.apache.org/thread/9ry0jjydsvztnrosymlwzspdv4hdsvp1, I would like 
to justify it by providing more context 

>  1. Limited open-source impact and ecosystem maturity
Bolt has proved enterprise-grade maturity through massive internal adoptions 
within ByteDance on multiple product lines. The ecosystem is strengthening 
through direct & transparent collaboration with not only Gluten project, but 
also with OpenSearch / Flink / Paimon / Celeborn etc.

The maturity of project is the joint goal between Gluten & Bolt community, 
instead of the prerequisite on the code merge. Following  the project history 
of Gazelle/Gluten, I witness how Gluten community pioneers to adopt existing 
backends at early, inmature stage and foster Flink & GPU support even nowadays 
so I would appreciate the similar standard on the Bolt backend.

>  2. Increased long-term maintenance cost
Bolt is open to accepts commits from Gluten commits Internally, every Bolt 
commit is checked against all DBMS integration including Spark-on-Gluten to 
ensure the stability. Currently Gluten `backends-velox` depends on ibm/velox 
which requires frequent rebases with upstream so Bolt backend will reduce the 
long-term maintenance cost without messy rebase burden and providing first 
party supports on Gluten integration

> 3. Significant added pressure on GitHub Actions CI
Similar to existing maintenance model on backends-clickhouse, Github Actions CI 
on Bolt backend will run on **additional** compute resources provided by Bolt 
project to ensure the task bandwidth. To further enhance the transparency, run 
history and logs are available for public access. You can check the health on 
existing Bolt [Github action run](https://github.com/bytedance/bolt/actions). 
On the top of CI resource, as stated in the [voting 
message](https://lists.apache.org/thread/lh5gos0hrg79pnhmjcpkv83fk6pwp9lq), 
Bolt community will assign 3 dedicated members to maintain the stability of 
Gluten & Bolt integration.

> 4. Unclear readiness for community governance and sustainability
Bolt deeply values the "Apache Way" on community governance since day 1. We are 
in the process of submitting a proposal to ASF incubator. 

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15749520


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2026-02-08 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user wangxinshuo-bolt added a comment to the discussion: Add a new 
backend: Bolt

> > Bolt can dynamically over-issue memory after reaching the off-heap 
> > configuration value based on the actual physical memory usage, thereby 
> > reducing the amount of spilled data, improving performance, and reducing 
> > the risk of OOM.
> 
> Looking forward to see this open-sourced — especially how it helps avoid OOM. 
> We’ve been struggling with that a lot.

@boneanxs We have implemented all memory management functions in Bolt, so `Bolt 
can dynamically over-issue memory after reaching the off-heap configuration 
value based on the actual physical memory usage`. The specific code is here:
https://github.com/bytedance/bolt/blob/c9b1507b696edbae28d5133d6d512a1eac77e446/bolt/common/memory/sparksql/ExecutionMemoryPool.cpp#L347-L419

We will also refactor the memory module later to avoid shortcomings of the 
existing mechanism. All planning and discussions will be conducted in the bolt 
repo's issues.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15738427


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-12-05 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user frankobe added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

Bolt is open sourced: https://github.com/bytedance/bolt
Gluten Bolt Backend is available on: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/pull/11261

Feedbacks are welcomed!

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15177977


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-11-21 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user zhangx added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: 
Bolt

> @zhangx thanks for the explanation!
> 
> > For the shuffle reader
> 
> I'm curious about `Morsel Driven` mentioned above, I guess Bolt use parallel 
> mode to execute task (Gluten use serial mode). does fetching raw shuffle 
> data, decompression, deserialization all done in one operator? how many 
> driver does shuffle read operator generate? if only one driver of shuffle 
> read op, seems no major difference with Gluten, if two, fetching, 
> decompression, deserialization all in one driver?

After offload as a Bolt operator, shuffle read support multiple drivers, each 
driver's shuffle reader get different InputStreams (since Gluten get an 
iterator of InputStream from ShuffleBlockFetcherIterator, which contains 
multiple InputStreams), so they can fetching data, decompression, 
deserialization in parallel.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15037342


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-11-21 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user Yohahaha added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

@zhangx thanks for the explanation!

> For the shuffle reader

I'm curious about `Morsel Driven` mentioned above, I guess Bolt use parallel 
mode to execute task (Gluten use serial mode).
does fetching raw shuffle data, decompression, deserialization all done in one 
operator? how many driver does shuffle read operator generate? if only one 
driver of shuffle read op, seems no major difference with Gluten, if two, 
fetching, decompression, deserialization all in one driver? 

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15036507


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-11-21 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user zhangx added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: 
Bolt

> > Bolt has improved it by treating Shuffle as an operator in Bolt and 
> > offloading it from Gluten to Bolt for parallel processing.
> 
> @frankobe would you give more explanation about `treat shuffle as an 
> operator`? doest Bolt still fetch shuffle data from spark's java iterator?

When shuffle writer or shuffle reader is adjacent to other operators that run 
in Gluten,it would be offloaded into Bolt and treated as a Bolt operator.

For the shuffle reader, Bolt would fetch the shuffle data directly from spark's 
InputStream, and then read raw bytes from it and do decompression and 
deserialization inside the shuffle reader operator, and then outputs result as 
a normal operator instead using Iterator[ColumnarBatch].

For the shuffle writer, Bolt also constructs a shuffle writer operator. It 
receives data directly from the upstream operator instead of wrapping it into 
an Iterator[ColumnarBatch].

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15036189


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-11-19 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user afterincomparableyum added a comment to the discussion: Add a new 
backend: Bolt

one more question @frankobe , i’m assuming that the gluten parameter for 
dynamic off heap sizing, 
spark.gluten.memory.dynamic.offHeap.sizing.enabled=true, works with Bolt too 
since it is a fork off of velox? 

Or would we not need to specify off heap memory configs at all since Bolt has 
Memory Management Offload.

If all of these questions are going to be answered in docs for the PR you will 
submit, I can wait till those docs get released before asking more questions. 
Thank you! 

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15010367


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-11-18 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user boneanxs added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

> Bolt can dynamically over-issue memory after reaching the off-heap 
> configuration value based on the actual physical memory usage, thereby 
> reducing the amount of spilled data, improving performance, and reducing the 
> risk of OOM.

Looking forward to see this open-sourced — especially how it helps avoid OOM. 
We’ve been struggling with that a lot.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-15007960


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-11-17 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user Yohahaha added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

> Bolt has improved it by treating Shuffle as an operator in Bolt and 
> offloading it from Gluten to Bolt for parallel processing.

@frankobe would you give more explanation about `treat shuffle as an operator`? 
doest Bolt still fetch shuffle data from spark's java iterator?

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-14996445


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-11-17 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user weiting-chen added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: 
Bolt

@WangGuangxin and @frankobe Thank you for this proposal.

The community welcome this proposal and aprreciate ByteDance's interest in 
contributing Bolt to Apache Gluten. We're open to discussing the addition of a 
new backend.

To move forward, please highlight the key differentiations between Bolt and 
Velox - both in architecture and performance, so the community understands the 
unique value Bolt brings.

Official support for important feature like to add a new backend requires a 
formal community voting process, as this involves significant design and 
maintenance effort. Compliance with Apache licensing and IP clearance is 
essential, given Bolt's origin as a Velox fork.

I would encourage sharing additional data for Bolt, including the source code 
for review, performance benchmarks, and the roadmap for ongoing maintenance to 
ensure long-term sustainability.



GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-14996282


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-11-17 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user afterincomparableyum added a comment to the discussion: Add a new 
backend: Bolt

i’m happy to collaborate 😀

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-14995417


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-11-17 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user frankobe edited a comment on the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

@afterincomparableyum Bolt is compatible with Celeborn (which is used 
internally in ByteDance as well). We are planning a deeper integration with 
Celeborn C++ client for more flexibility & performance. Happy to collaborate in 
the community if you are interested

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-14994355


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-11-17 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user frankobe added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

@afterincomparableyum Bolt is Celeborn (which is used internally in ByteDance 
as well). We are planning a deeper integration with Celeborn C++ client for 
more flexibility & performance. Happy to collaborate in the community if you 
are interested

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-14994355


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-11-17 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user frankobe added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

@lgbo-ustc @afterincomparableyum Yes, Bolt source code, as well as the PR on 
Gluten integration, will be open source before Dec 6th(if not earlier). I will 
share the links here once it is ready. It is truly amazing to receive 
overwhelming interests and we would appreciate the test & feedback from the 
community to make Bolt better.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-14994349


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-11-15 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user afterincomparableyum added a comment to the discussion: Add a new 
backend: Bolt

@WangGuangxin also curious to see if the new Bolt backend is compatible with 
Apache Celeborn. I noticed you mentioned that bolt now handles the shuffle 
instead of gluten for more parallel processing. 

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-14977835


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-11-11 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user afterincomparableyum added a comment to the discussion: Add a new 
backend: Bolt

@WangGuangxin i am interested in this timeline too.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-14940040


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-11-04 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user lgbo-ustc added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

@WangGuangxin Do you have any plan to release ` Bolt` source ?

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-14876445


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-10-30 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user FelixYBW added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

It's good idea since Flink doesn't have many customer adoptions yet.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-14829235


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-10-30 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user zhanglistar added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: 
Bolt

@frankobe Thanks for your explanation, for flink use case, how do you change on 
velox to support streamming computation?

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-14827057


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-10-30 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user zhanglistar added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: 
Bolt

@WangGuangxin Great work! What about if we add streaming computation extension 
to your Bolt? since we are doing gluten on Flink project and it's easyer work 
with you guys than velox team.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-14826655


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-10-29 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user FelixYBW added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

Thank you for explanation, can you submit a PR to ease Gluten user's test?

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-14822855


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-10-29 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user frankobe added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

**1. Brief Introduction**

Bolt is a unified acceleration library powering ByteDance’s internal OLAP & ML 
preprocess use cases including Spark/Flink/Presto/ElasticSearch and quite a few 
in-house DBMS etc. Initially derived from Velox, Bolt has undergone continuous 
iterations & tunings to achieve qualitative improvements in both stability and 
performance. With the focus to embrace open source ecosystems like data lake 
formats (Paimon/ Hudi / Lance) and results consistency with original engines, 
Bolt is not guaranteed to be interface compatible with Velox. During the 
continuous refactoring of Bolt, Gluten is upgraded simultaneously for critical 
features like adaptive execution and dependence management. Therefore, 
compatibility cannot be achieved by simply changing the repository (repo) name, 
and Bolt prefers to become a separate backend.

**2. Summary of Changes on the Gluten Side**

1. Shuffle Offload

-   Morsel Driven: To improve CPU utilization and solve the long-tail problem 
caused by data skew in tasks, Bolt introduced Morsel Driven support. The 
open-source version of Shuffle is implemented on the Gluten side, where batches 
are fetched from Bolt in a single-threaded manner within a single task, which 
becomes a performance bottleneck. Bolt has improved it by treating Shuffle as 
an operator in Bolt and offloading it from Gluten to Bolt for parallel 
processing.

2.  Memory Management Offload

- In the current open-source version, the usage of off-heap memory is reported 
to Spark, and Spark performs unified memory management. However, in practical 
applications, it was found that the average utilization of physical memory is 
low, and due to the uneven utilization among different stages, reducing the 
memory configuration through parameter tuning may cause OOM issues. To address 
this, Bolt has re-implemented the memory management module and offloaded the 
management of off-heap memory from Spark to Bolt. Bolt can dynamically 
over-issue memory after reaching the off-heap configuration value based on the 
actual physical memory usage, thereby reducing the amount of spilled data, 
improving performance, and reducing the risk of OOM.

3. Operator Fusion

- Bolt's RowVector uses columnar storage, but operators such as Aggregation and 
Window need to convert columnar data to row data before computation. To reduce 
the cost of row-column conversion, Bolt has implemented CompositeRowVector, 
which supports mixed row-column storage. For example, in scenarios such as 
PartialAggregation + Shuffle (RowBased) + FinalAggregation and Sort + Window, 
one row-column conversion can be reduced (or the split cost of Shuffle can be 
reduced). Shuffle also supports processing the CompositeRowVector format with 
mixed row-column storage.
https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/4d2f1b05-b60c-41a3-9828-b27a7b9b9f10";
 />
https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/b4ec7ae0-03c0-48e9-a1a2-e5dfa53e8a9b";
 />


4. Support for the package management tool Conan
5. Namespace Incompatibility: Bolt uses the namespace bytedance::bolt instead 
of facebook::velox
6. Other Features: New support for Paimon MOR, etc.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-14822826


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-10-23 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user FelixYBW added a comment to the discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt

Thank you to start the discussion, @WangGuangxin. 

For short term experiment, can we simply replace the VELOX_REPO to enable Bolt? 
Do we need to change any Gluten code?

In long term, we may considered to add a new backend.

GitHub link: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929#discussioncomment-14767502


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Re: [D] Add a new backend: Bolt [incubator-gluten]

2025-10-23 Thread via GitHub 


GitHub user WangGuangxin edited a discussion: Add a new backend: Bolt


Hi everyone, 

Bolt​​ is a velox fork within ByteDance. By integrating with our production 
environment, Bolt has effectively addressed numerous stability 
challenges—including off-heap OOM and core dump issues—while also delivering 
significant performance optimizations, such as those achieved through 
LLVM-based JIT compilation.

We are now planning to open source Bolt and enable the broader community to use 
it through ​​Apache Gluten​​.

In this thread, I’d like to start a discussion with you on how we can ​​better 
leverage Bolt within the Gluten ecosystem​​. Any questions, and use cases are 
highly welcome!

More detailed technical information will be shared soon. Looking forward to 
your thoughts!

cc @FelixYBW @frankobe @guhaiyan0221 

GitHub link: https://github.com/apache/incubator-gluten/discussions/10929


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