Re: Preview Release of the AWS SDK Java 2.x HTTP Client built on Apache HttpClient 5.5.x

2025-07-24 Thread Oleg Kalnichevski
On Thu, 2025-07-24 at 07:20 -0400, Gary Gregory wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2025, 07:01 Oleg Kalnichevski 
> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 2025-07-24 at 06:53 -0400, Gary Gregory wrote:
> > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2025, 06:33 Oleg Kalnichevski 
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Wed, 2025-07-23 at 10:22 -0700, Ryan Schmitt wrote:
> > > > > I saw that this was just announced:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/developer/preview-release-of-theaws-sdk-java-2-x-http-client-built-on-apache-httpclient-5-5-x/
> > > > > 
> > > > > Currently, both versions of the AWS Java SDK still default to
> > > > > HttpClient 4.x, except for async clients in V2 which default
> > > > > to
> > > > > Netty.
> > > > > It looks like the improved support for virtual threads in 5.x
> > > > > is
> > > > > the
> > > > > main reason they're finally offering an upgraded Apache
> > > > > client.
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Is this a good thing for us? I am not sure. Ultimately, this
> > > > looks
> > > > like
> > > > a painful reminder that sooner or later we, as a project, will
> > > > get
> > > > crushed between JRE HTTP client and Netty. We might still have
> > > > a
> > > > few
> > > > years of good time ahead of us, though.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > I think it all depends on how good the JRE HTTP client is and
> > > what
> > > features
> > > it carries.
> > > 
> > > The JRE's logging package is much worse than full featured
> > > logging
> > > API and
> > > libraries like Log4j.
> > > 
> > 
> > I agree JRE logging is a complete disgrace. JRE HTTP client is not.
> > It
> > is decent at the very least and is our greatest competition.
> 
> 
> Ah, good to know. The questions becomes:
> 
> What features are missing from the JRE that we do and can highlight
> in our
> docs?
> 
> What features are missing from our library that the JRE provides (if
> any)?
> 
> What's missing from both?
> 
> What should we prioritize?
> 

This is not about features. They do not need to match us feature by
feature to render us irrelevant. They just need to be good enough, and
they already are. 

We are bound to become irrelevant even faster if we decide to go 'API
stability above all' route. Microsoft Azure do not even bother to
provide us as an option. It is either Netty or JRE HTTP client with
nothing in between.

Oleg

PS: By JRE HTTP client I mean Java 11 HTTP client, not that wrack
called HttpUrlConnection


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Re: Preview Release of the AWS SDK Java 2.x HTTP Client built on Apache HttpClient 5.5.x

2025-07-24 Thread Adrian Woodhead
I think this is a good thing as it shows that AWS is keeping up to date
with the Apache client versions. I've recently done work on another project
to shift from AWS Java SDK v1 to v2 and liked that the familiar Apache Http
Client was available as an option as we already had it on the classpath for
other reasons.

The only other option AWS offer for this out of the box is their "default"
of UrlConnectionHttpClient (see
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/sdk-for-java/latest/developer-guide/http-configuration.html
).

On Thu, 24 Jul 2025 at 12:00, Oleg Kalnichevski  wrote:

> On Thu, 2025-07-24 at 06:53 -0400, Gary Gregory wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 24, 2025, 06:33 Oleg Kalnichevski 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 2025-07-23 at 10:22 -0700, Ryan Schmitt wrote:
> > > > I saw that this was just announced:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/developer/preview-release-of-theaws-sdk-java-2-x-http-client-built-on-apache-httpclient-5-5-x/
> > > >
> > > > Currently, both versions of the AWS Java SDK still default to
> > > > HttpClient 4.x, except for async clients in V2 which default to
> > > > Netty.
> > > > It looks like the improved support for virtual threads in 5.x is
> > > > the
> > > > main reason they're finally offering an upgraded Apache client.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Is this a good thing for us? I am not sure. Ultimately, this looks
> > > like
> > > a painful reminder that sooner or later we, as a project, will get
> > > crushed between JRE HTTP client and Netty. We might still have a
> > > few
> > > years of good time ahead of us, though.
> > >
> >
> > I think it all depends on how good the JRE HTTP client is and what
> > features
> > it carries.
> >
> > The JRE's logging package is much worse than full featured logging
> > API and
> > libraries like Log4j.
> >
>
> I agree JRE logging is a complete disgrace. JRE HTTP client is not. It
> is decent at the very least and is our greatest competition.
>
> Oleg
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>


Re: Preview Release of the AWS SDK Java 2.x HTTP Client built on Apache HttpClient 5.5.x

2025-07-24 Thread Gary Gregory
On Thu, Jul 24, 2025, 07:01 Oleg Kalnichevski  wrote:

> On Thu, 2025-07-24 at 06:53 -0400, Gary Gregory wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 24, 2025, 06:33 Oleg Kalnichevski 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 2025-07-23 at 10:22 -0700, Ryan Schmitt wrote:
> > > > I saw that this was just announced:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/developer/preview-release-of-theaws-sdk-java-2-x-http-client-built-on-apache-httpclient-5-5-x/
> > > >
> > > > Currently, both versions of the AWS Java SDK still default to
> > > > HttpClient 4.x, except for async clients in V2 which default to
> > > > Netty.
> > > > It looks like the improved support for virtual threads in 5.x is
> > > > the
> > > > main reason they're finally offering an upgraded Apache client.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Is this a good thing for us? I am not sure. Ultimately, this looks
> > > like
> > > a painful reminder that sooner or later we, as a project, will get
> > > crushed between JRE HTTP client and Netty. We might still have a
> > > few
> > > years of good time ahead of us, though.
> > >
> >
> > I think it all depends on how good the JRE HTTP client is and what
> > features
> > it carries.
> >
> > The JRE's logging package is much worse than full featured logging
> > API and
> > libraries like Log4j.
> >
>
> I agree JRE logging is a complete disgrace. JRE HTTP client is not. It
> is decent at the very least and is our greatest competition.


Ah, good to know. The questions becomes:

What features are missing from the JRE that we do and can highlight in our
docs?

What features are missing from our library that the JRE provides (if any)?

What's missing from both?

What should we prioritize?

HTH,
Gary


>
> Oleg
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>


Re: Preview Release of the AWS SDK Java 2.x HTTP Client built on Apache HttpClient 5.5.x

2025-07-24 Thread Oleg Kalnichevski
On Thu, 2025-07-24 at 06:53 -0400, Gary Gregory wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2025, 06:33 Oleg Kalnichevski 
> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2025-07-23 at 10:22 -0700, Ryan Schmitt wrote:
> > > I saw that this was just announced:
> > > 
> > > 
> > https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/developer/preview-release-of-theaws-sdk-java-2-x-http-client-built-on-apache-httpclient-5-5-x/
> > > 
> > > Currently, both versions of the AWS Java SDK still default to
> > > HttpClient 4.x, except for async clients in V2 which default to
> > > Netty.
> > > It looks like the improved support for virtual threads in 5.x is
> > > the
> > > main reason they're finally offering an upgraded Apache client.
> > > 
> > 
> > Is this a good thing for us? I am not sure. Ultimately, this looks
> > like
> > a painful reminder that sooner or later we, as a project, will get
> > crushed between JRE HTTP client and Netty. We might still have a
> > few
> > years of good time ahead of us, though.
> > 
> 
> I think it all depends on how good the JRE HTTP client is and what
> features
> it carries.
> 
> The JRE's logging package is much worse than full featured logging
> API and
> libraries like Log4j.
> 

I agree JRE logging is a complete disgrace. JRE HTTP client is not. It
is decent at the very least and is our greatest competition. 

Oleg

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Re: Preview Release of the AWS SDK Java 2.x HTTP Client built on Apache HttpClient 5.5.x

2025-07-24 Thread Gary Gregory
On Thu, Jul 24, 2025, 06:33 Oleg Kalnichevski  wrote:

> On Wed, 2025-07-23 at 10:22 -0700, Ryan Schmitt wrote:
> > I saw that this was just announced:
> >
> >
> https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/developer/preview-release-of-theaws-sdk-java-2-x-http-client-built-on-apache-httpclient-5-5-x/
> >
> > Currently, both versions of the AWS Java SDK still default to
> > HttpClient 4.x, except for async clients in V2 which default to
> > Netty.
> > It looks like the improved support for virtual threads in 5.x is the
> > main reason they're finally offering an upgraded Apache client.
> >
>
> Is this a good thing for us? I am not sure. Ultimately, this looks like
> a painful reminder that sooner or later we, as a project, will get
> crushed between JRE HTTP client and Netty. We might still have a few
> years of good time ahead of us, though.
>

I think it all depends on how good the JRE HTTP client is and what features
it carries.

The JRE's logging package is much worse than full featured logging API and
libraries like Log4j.

Gary


> Oleg
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>


Re: Preview Release of the AWS SDK Java 2.x HTTP Client built on Apache HttpClient 5.5.x

2025-07-24 Thread Oleg Kalnichevski
On Wed, 2025-07-23 at 10:22 -0700, Ryan Schmitt wrote:
> I saw that this was just announced:
> 
> https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/developer/preview-release-of-theaws-sdk-java-2-x-http-client-built-on-apache-httpclient-5-5-x/
> 
> Currently, both versions of the AWS Java SDK still default to
> HttpClient 4.x, except for async clients in V2 which default to
> Netty.
> It looks like the improved support for virtual threads in 5.x is the
> main reason they're finally offering an upgraded Apache client.
> 

Is this a good thing for us? I am not sure. Ultimately, this looks like
a painful reminder that sooner or later we, as a project, will get
crushed between JRE HTTP client and Netty. We might still have a few
years of good time ahead of us, though.

Oleg

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