Re: Request for feedback: proposal for MXNet SDK Office hours

2018-07-24 Thread Davydenko, Denis
Hi, MXNet community,

I would like to suggest that we (participants of dev@ list) spend couple more 
days thinking about and discussing proposal for office hours and then, if no 
active discussion is happening, move towards lazy vote to get to conclusion on 
whether we can incorporate suggested practice of office hours. Does that sound 
feasible?

P.S. I forgot to address question about using IRC at a scheduled time. It is 
definitely one of the options on the table, and we (facilitators of office 
hours) can use that as an additional choice for MXNet users who would prefer 
such way of communication. Office hours initiative has a goal of opening up 
communication channels to users, the more the better!


On 7/24/18, 11:44 AM, "Naveen Swamy"  wrote:

Sheng, cwiki keeps versions of page edits, you could always compare based
on the discussion date on dev@. Moving the page might or might not be an
issue, I would use caution on moving pages. I have seen other communities
use Google Doc, cwiki provides a central place to capture all process and
design proposals.

All,
I made a revised based on the feedback. The latest version*(v. 22)* is here

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/PROPOSAL%3A+Apache+MXNet%28Incubating%29+Office+Hours

* replaced amazon email address with dev@ and clarified that this is users
are expected to contact(this can be changed as we see more traction on the
user@ list)
* reorganized and made it clear in the Who section with the below
"Apache MXNet developers/Committers would be primary driver behind
facilitating office hours. developers could request help from other
developers who have expertise in a certain area. To start with two groups
of Apache MXNet developers, one based in Palo Alto, CA, U.S.A and another
based out of Berlin, Germany  as a part of their day job will offer one
hour a week to support this effort. We hope to extend the areas based on
the community's bandwidth and welcome the community to suggest if they
would like to contribute to this effort in different parts of the world and
also in different timezones."
* I propose we follow common process for developers regardless of their
location follow a common process, in this case based out of Palo Alto and
Berlin. It helps to stream line the process and avoid confusion. I ask the
Berlin based developers to update the areas they are interested in covering.

Any other feedback is welcome.

Noting that I am in working in collaboration with Denis(another Apache
MXNet contributor - dzianis.davydze...@gmail.com) to establish this process.

Thanks, Naveen


On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 10:20 PM, Sheng Zha  wrote:

> Thanks for the clarification, Naveen. I'd recommend against having wiki or
> other mutable document for such discussion, because people's response (or
> the lack of it in the case of lazy consensus) is only toward the version
> they saw, which can be changed. Rather, it would likely be a better idea 
to
> include all the key points in the discussion thread directly (like you 
just
> did), so that everyone at any point in time can see the same thing.
>
> -sz
>
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 10:12 PM, Naveen Swamy  wrote:
>
> > Sheng,
> > It is in the wiki, I also added a TOC to find it easily.
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/
> > PROPOSAL%3A+Apache+MXNet%28Incubating%29+Office+Hours#
> > PROPOSAL:ApacheMXNet(Incubating)OfficeHours-How
> > ?
> > How?
> >
> > Developers would have 1 hour every week to dedicate to office hours
> > meeting. Typical flow for process is like this:
> >
> >-
> >
> >at least 24 hours before office hours session user signs up for one
> of 2
> >slots (each slot is 30 minutes) by filing jira issue. In that issue
> user
> >will provide questions/concerns and relevant details pertaining to
> > subject.
> >-
> >
> >before or on a day *preceding* office hours session the developer who
> >leads office-hours for that week reviews existing queue
> > > 22Apache%20MXNet%22%20and%20issuetype%3D%22Office%20hours%22%20%20and%
> > 20component%20in%20(Keras%2C%20Gluon%2C%20%22Scala%20API%
> > 22%2C%20%22Java%20API%22%2C%20ModelServer%2C%20ONNX)>
> > of filed issues and investigates 1 or 2 filed for upcoming session.
> The
> >goal is to prepare for session as much as possible in advance.
> >-
> >
> >   Every week one of the Apache MXNet community members
> >   (committer/developer) could drive this effort in each area that
> > is offered
> >   is support with.
> >   -
> >
> >   if necessary they could to engage SME that 

Re: Request for feedback: proposal for MXNet SDK Office hours

2018-07-24 Thread Naveen Swamy
Sheng, cwiki keeps versions of page edits, you could always compare based
on the discussion date on dev@. Moving the page might or might not be an
issue, I would use caution on moving pages. I have seen other communities
use Google Doc, cwiki provides a central place to capture all process and
design proposals.

All,
I made a revised based on the feedback. The latest version*(v. 22)* is here
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/PROPOSAL%3A+Apache+MXNet%28Incubating%29+Office+Hours

* replaced amazon email address with dev@ and clarified that this is users
are expected to contact(this can be changed as we see more traction on the
user@ list)
* reorganized and made it clear in the Who section with the below
"Apache MXNet developers/Committers would be primary driver behind
facilitating office hours. developers could request help from other
developers who have expertise in a certain area. To start with two groups
of Apache MXNet developers, one based in Palo Alto, CA, U.S.A and another
based out of Berlin, Germany  as a part of their day job will offer one
hour a week to support this effort. We hope to extend the areas based on
the community's bandwidth and welcome the community to suggest if they
would like to contribute to this effort in different parts of the world and
also in different timezones."
* I propose we follow common process for developers regardless of their
location follow a common process, in this case based out of Palo Alto and
Berlin. It helps to stream line the process and avoid confusion. I ask the
Berlin based developers to update the areas they are interested in covering.

Any other feedback is welcome.

Noting that I am in working in collaboration with Denis(another Apache
MXNet contributor - dzianis.davydze...@gmail.com) to establish this process.

Thanks, Naveen


On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 10:20 PM, Sheng Zha  wrote:

> Thanks for the clarification, Naveen. I'd recommend against having wiki or
> other mutable document for such discussion, because people's response (or
> the lack of it in the case of lazy consensus) is only toward the version
> they saw, which can be changed. Rather, it would likely be a better idea to
> include all the key points in the discussion thread directly (like you just
> did), so that everyone at any point in time can see the same thing.
>
> -sz
>
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 10:12 PM, Naveen Swamy  wrote:
>
> > Sheng,
> > It is in the wiki, I also added a TOC to find it easily.
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/
> > PROPOSAL%3A+Apache+MXNet%28Incubating%29+Office+Hours#
> > PROPOSAL:ApacheMXNet(Incubating)OfficeHours-How
> > ?
> > How?
> >
> > Developers would have 1 hour every week to dedicate to office hours
> > meeting. Typical flow for process is like this:
> >
> >-
> >
> >at least 24 hours before office hours session user signs up for one
> of 2
> >slots (each slot is 30 minutes) by filing jira issue. In that issue
> user
> >will provide questions/concerns and relevant details pertaining to
> > subject.
> >-
> >
> >before or on a day *preceding* office hours session the developer who
> >leads office-hours for that week reviews existing queue
> > > 22Apache%20MXNet%22%20and%20issuetype%3D%22Office%20hours%22%20%20and%
> > 20component%20in%20(Keras%2C%20Gluon%2C%20%22Scala%20API%
> > 22%2C%20%22Java%20API%22%2C%20ModelServer%2C%20ONNX)>
> > of filed issues and investigates 1 or 2 filed for upcoming session.
> The
> >goal is to prepare for session as much as possible in advance.
> >-
> >
> >   Every week one of the Apache MXNet community members
> >   (committer/developer) could drive this effort in each area that
> > is offered
> >   is support with.
> >   -
> >
> >   if necessary they could to engage SME that has a lot of expertise
> in
> >   area relevant to question/issue filed.
> >   -
> >
> >at a scheduled time the developer leading office hours dials into
> >meeting bridge and verifies that corresponding user has joined the
> line.
> >-
> >
> >   if by the end of time slot issue/question has not been fully
> >   addressed, developer would propose to take further conversation to
> > the
> >   public forum(dev@ list or JIRA). This way office hours slots won't
> >   spill over and both slots could be accommodated for.
> >   -
> >
> >if any of the questions have not been fully addressed during session,
> >developer will follow up and address outstanding scope of
> > issue/question.
> >Corresponding jira issue filed for session should be used as the
> outlet
> > for
> >following up.
> >-
> >
> >   one possible follow up could end up being new feature request or
> bug
> >   fix. If that is the case - developers would convert corresponding
> > office
> >   hours issue into normal GitHub issue.
> >   -
> >
> >   We request SMEs to 

Re: Request for feedback: proposal for MXNet SDK Office hours

2018-07-23 Thread Sheng Zha
Thanks for the clarification, Naveen. I'd recommend against having wiki or
other mutable document for such discussion, because people's response (or
the lack of it in the case of lazy consensus) is only toward the version
they saw, which can be changed. Rather, it would likely be a better idea to
include all the key points in the discussion thread directly (like you just
did), so that everyone at any point in time can see the same thing.

-sz

On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 10:12 PM, Naveen Swamy  wrote:

> Sheng,
> It is in the wiki, I also added a TOC to find it easily.
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/
> PROPOSAL%3A+Apache+MXNet%28Incubating%29+Office+Hours#
> PROPOSAL:ApacheMXNet(Incubating)OfficeHours-How
> ?
> How?
>
> Developers would have 1 hour every week to dedicate to office hours
> meeting. Typical flow for process is like this:
>
>-
>
>at least 24 hours before office hours session user signs up for one of 2
>slots (each slot is 30 minutes) by filing jira issue. In that issue user
>will provide questions/concerns and relevant details pertaining to
> subject.
>-
>
>before or on a day *preceding* office hours session the developer who
>leads office-hours for that week reviews existing queue
> 22Apache%20MXNet%22%20and%20issuetype%3D%22Office%20hours%22%20%20and%
> 20component%20in%20(Keras%2C%20Gluon%2C%20%22Scala%20API%
> 22%2C%20%22Java%20API%22%2C%20ModelServer%2C%20ONNX)>
> of filed issues and investigates 1 or 2 filed for upcoming session. The
>goal is to prepare for session as much as possible in advance.
>-
>
>   Every week one of the Apache MXNet community members
>   (committer/developer) could drive this effort in each area that
> is offered
>   is support with.
>   -
>
>   if necessary they could to engage SME that has a lot of expertise in
>   area relevant to question/issue filed.
>   -
>
>at a scheduled time the developer leading office hours dials into
>meeting bridge and verifies that corresponding user has joined the line.
>-
>
>   if by the end of time slot issue/question has not been fully
>   addressed, developer would propose to take further conversation to
> the
>   public forum(dev@ list or JIRA). This way office hours slots won't
>   spill over and both slots could be accommodated for.
>   -
>
>if any of the questions have not been fully addressed during session,
>developer will follow up and address outstanding scope of
> issue/question.
>Corresponding jira issue filed for session should be used as the outlet
> for
>following up.
>-
>
>   one possible follow up could end up being new feature request or bug
>   fix. If that is the case - developers would convert corresponding
> office
>   hours issue into normal GitHub issue.
>   -
>
>   We request SMEs to help in following up by the issues.
>   - At the end of the office hours conversation, developer who helped
>the user would summarize their interaction on the JIRA filed.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 10:04 PM, Sheng Zha  wrote:
>
> > Hi Naveen,
> >
> > While your enthusiasm is certainly appreciated, next time, shall we
> include
> > the "new Issue Type" in the discussion first? I found no prior mention on
> > this.
> >
> > Also, a reminder to everyone that next time, let's respect Apache Infra's
> > time by following the instructions to have an Apache mentor to create
> issue
> > after discussion, instead of "just create". Thanks.
> >
> > -sz
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 7:36 PM, Naveen Swamy 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hey All, just created a INFRA ticket(https://issues.apache.o
> > > rg/jira/browse/INFRA-16805)  requesting a new Issue Type "Office Hours"
> > on
> > > JIRA to better manage and support Office hours request.
> > >
> > > One feedback I received was that  "Apache" was neither mentioned in the
> > > discussion nor in the PROPOSAL on the wiki. This is a valid feedback
> and
> > I
> > > have fixed the PROPOSAL.
> > > I propose the office hours under discussion should be explicitly called
> > > "Apache MXNet Office hours".
> > >
> > > Also, Apache INFRA asked to create INFRA tickets only through mentors
> > >
> > > Can one of the mentors kindly help take this ticket forward.
> > >
> > > Thanks, Naveen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Pedro Larroy <
> > > pedro.larroy.li...@gmail.com
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Yes Naveen, I think you are saying exactly the same as I hinted.
> Sheng
> > > also
> > > > agreed with this.
> > > >
> > > > Pedro.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 6:54 PM Naveen Swamy 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I do not think there needs to be a distinction made for
> > > > > support/office-hours by committer or contributors(in this case
> Amazon
> > > > > employed contributors) -- correct me if I misunderstood your guess
> > :).
> > > > > Like 

Re: Request for feedback: proposal for MXNet SDK Office hours

2018-07-23 Thread Naveen Swamy
Sheng,
It is in the wiki, I also added a TOC to find it easily.
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/PROPOSAL%3A+Apache+MXNet%28Incubating%29+Office+Hours#PROPOSAL:ApacheMXNet(Incubating)OfficeHours-How
?
How?

Developers would have 1 hour every week to dedicate to office hours
meeting. Typical flow for process is like this:

   -

   at least 24 hours before office hours session user signs up for one of 2
   slots (each slot is 30 minutes) by filing jira issue. In that issue user
   will provide questions/concerns and relevant details pertaining to subject.
   -

   before or on a day *preceding* office hours session the developer who
   leads office-hours for that week reviews existing queue
   

of filed issues and investigates 1 or 2 filed for upcoming session. The
   goal is to prepare for session as much as possible in advance.
   -

  Every week one of the Apache MXNet community members
  (committer/developer) could drive this effort in each area that
is offered
  is support with.
  -

  if necessary they could to engage SME that has a lot of expertise in
  area relevant to question/issue filed.
  -

   at a scheduled time the developer leading office hours dials into
   meeting bridge and verifies that corresponding user has joined the line.
   -

  if by the end of time slot issue/question has not been fully
  addressed, developer would propose to take further conversation to the
  public forum(dev@ list or JIRA). This way office hours slots won't
  spill over and both slots could be accommodated for.
  -

   if any of the questions have not been fully addressed during session,
   developer will follow up and address outstanding scope of issue/question.
   Corresponding jira issue filed for session should be used as the outlet for
   following up.
   -

  one possible follow up could end up being new feature request or bug
  fix. If that is the case - developers would convert corresponding office
  hours issue into normal GitHub issue.
  -

  We request SMEs to help in following up by the issues.
  - At the end of the office hours conversation, developer who helped
   the user would summarize their interaction on the JIRA filed.



On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 10:04 PM, Sheng Zha  wrote:

> Hi Naveen,
>
> While your enthusiasm is certainly appreciated, next time, shall we include
> the "new Issue Type" in the discussion first? I found no prior mention on
> this.
>
> Also, a reminder to everyone that next time, let's respect Apache Infra's
> time by following the instructions to have an Apache mentor to create issue
> after discussion, instead of "just create". Thanks.
>
> -sz
>
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 7:36 PM, Naveen Swamy  wrote:
>
> > Hey All, just created a INFRA ticket(https://issues.apache.o
> > rg/jira/browse/INFRA-16805)  requesting a new Issue Type "Office Hours"
> on
> > JIRA to better manage and support Office hours request.
> >
> > One feedback I received was that  "Apache" was neither mentioned in the
> > discussion nor in the PROPOSAL on the wiki. This is a valid feedback and
> I
> > have fixed the PROPOSAL.
> > I propose the office hours under discussion should be explicitly called
> > "Apache MXNet Office hours".
> >
> > Also, Apache INFRA asked to create INFRA tickets only through mentors
> >
> > Can one of the mentors kindly help take this ticket forward.
> >
> > Thanks, Naveen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Pedro Larroy <
> > pedro.larroy.li...@gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Yes Naveen, I think you are saying exactly the same as I hinted. Sheng
> > also
> > > agreed with this.
> > >
> > > Pedro.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 6:54 PM Naveen Swamy 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I do not think there needs to be a distinction made for
> > > > support/office-hours by committer or contributors(in this case Amazon
> > > > employed contributors) -- correct me if I misunderstood your guess
> :).
> > > > Like I said, I would rather call it MXNet Office hours and categorize
> > the
> > > > kind of support that is offered, we might be able to find
> contributors
> > > > willing to do this in different parts of the world regardless of
> their
> > > day
> > > > job or not.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:21 AM, Sheng Zha 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'm guessing Mu's intention is to make it clear that such
> invitation
> > is
> > > > > extended by teams in Amazon/AWS instead of by committers, so as to
> > > avoid
> > > > > the confusion of the naming "MXNet SDK". Suggestions to achieve the
> > > same
> > > > > goal are welcome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > -sz
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Isabel Drost-Fromm 

Re: Request for feedback: proposal for MXNet SDK Office hours

2018-07-23 Thread Sheng Zha
Hi Naveen,

While your enthusiasm is certainly appreciated, next time, shall we include
the "new Issue Type" in the discussion first? I found no prior mention on
this.

Also, a reminder to everyone that next time, let's respect Apache Infra's
time by following the instructions to have an Apache mentor to create issue
after discussion, instead of "just create". Thanks.

-sz

On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 7:36 PM, Naveen Swamy  wrote:

> Hey All, just created a INFRA ticket(https://issues.apache.o
> rg/jira/browse/INFRA-16805)  requesting a new Issue Type "Office Hours" on
> JIRA to better manage and support Office hours request.
>
> One feedback I received was that  "Apache" was neither mentioned in the
> discussion nor in the PROPOSAL on the wiki. This is a valid feedback and I
> have fixed the PROPOSAL.
> I propose the office hours under discussion should be explicitly called
> "Apache MXNet Office hours".
>
> Also, Apache INFRA asked to create INFRA tickets only through mentors
>
> Can one of the mentors kindly help take this ticket forward.
>
> Thanks, Naveen
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Pedro Larroy <
> pedro.larroy.li...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > Yes Naveen, I think you are saying exactly the same as I hinted. Sheng
> also
> > agreed with this.
> >
> > Pedro.
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 6:54 PM Naveen Swamy  wrote:
> >
> > > I do not think there needs to be a distinction made for
> > > support/office-hours by committer or contributors(in this case Amazon
> > > employed contributors) -- correct me if I misunderstood your guess :).
> > > Like I said, I would rather call it MXNet Office hours and categorize
> the
> > > kind of support that is offered, we might be able to find contributors
> > > willing to do this in different parts of the world regardless of their
> > day
> > > job or not.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:21 AM, Sheng Zha  wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm guessing Mu's intention is to make it clear that such invitation
> is
> > > > extended by teams in Amazon/AWS instead of by committers, so as to
> > avoid
> > > > the confusion of the naming "MXNet SDK". Suggestions to achieve the
> > same
> > > > goal are welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > -sz
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Isabel Drost-Fromm <
> isa...@apache.org
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 18/07/18 23:30, Mu Li wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> A minor suggestion: rename MXNet SDK to AWS MXNet SDK or Amazon
> > MXNet
> > > > SDK.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > What exactly is the Amazon MXNet SDK? What is the AWS MXNet SDK?
> > > > >
> > > > > Your suggestion triggered my question because:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#products
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Isabel
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>


Re: Request for feedback: proposal for MXNet SDK Office hours

2018-07-23 Thread Davydenko, Denis
Hi, Hen,

Thanks a lot for your feedback, it is very valuable!

I should have been probably more explicit about idea and intention of providing 
users with office hours channel of communication. The idea behind office hours 
is to provide an additional communication channel to Apache MXNet users. It 
doesn't have an intention to replace or even supplement communication on dev@ 
list or other, more broader forums. In fact the proposal here is for very 
specific need that some users might have. Namely, it is to help with specific 
issues that users are having while trying to use/play/adopt Apache MXNet for 
_their_ need. Which might or might not be relevant and/or interesting to 
broader community. One more benefit of having office hours as additional 
channel of communication is that users could have some more or less definitive 
timeline to get answers to their questions and help with their project planning.

As part of the office hours process we will ensure to follow up on each issue 
filed and describe what was the answer (if anything definitive) to user's 
question. That is why we are proposing to use Apache JIRA to keep track of this 
additional communication channel. This way we are going to ensure that none of 
the communication falls off searchable surface.

Also, regarding your concern about diverse community. We are proposing office 
hours as additional channel of communication. It might not be suitable for 
everyone, especially if timeslot that we will be providing doesn't work with 
user's local time zone. While we would like to support more timeslots - we 
would need to work with Apache MXNet contributors across the world to figure 
out strategy to do that, at this time we only have resources to support 
proposed timeslot.

We definitely not impose any requirements for users and require them to use 
office hours, it is very much optional and additional channel to be used on per 
need basis. Users are free to use it or not to. We are driving this in order to 
provide more ways to users to get help with adopting Apache MXNet.

Please let me know if these clarifications address your concerns about the 
proposal. I would be interested in knowing whether this makes sense and what 
are your thoughts on it.

--
Thanks,
Denis


On 7/23/18, 8:02 PM, "Hen"  wrote:

My concerns on Office Hours are:

1) Voice and F2F are not very welcoming for a diverse community. There I
am, sitting in New Zealand, and you want me to get on the phone and wake up
the rest of the family to have a conversation. Or get on a plane.
2) Having to book time is also not very welcoming. I would expect the
booking time notion to happen because too many requests for help are
happening and it's not possible to handle them all; or because no one ever
shows up (in which case congrats, free time for the committers to chat
about ideas - provided it doesn't stop people asking for help).

Have you tried the more classic Open Source approach of a specific time on
an IM channel to discuss? Apache often uses IRC (irc.freenode.net).

Hen



On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 7:36 PM, Naveen Swamy  wrote:

> Hey All, just created a INFRA ticket(https://issues.apache.o
> rg/jira/browse/INFRA-16805)  requesting a new Issue Type "Office Hours" on
> JIRA to better manage and support Office hours request.
>
> One feedback I received was that  "Apache" was neither mentioned in the
> discussion nor in the PROPOSAL on the wiki. This is a valid feedback and I
> have fixed the PROPOSAL.
> I propose the office hours under discussion should be explicitly called
> "Apache MXNet Office hours".
>
> Also, Apache INFRA asked to create INFRA tickets only through mentors
>
> Can one of the mentors kindly help take this ticket forward.
>
> Thanks, Naveen
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Pedro Larroy <
> pedro.larroy.li...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > Yes Naveen, I think you are saying exactly the same as I hinted. Sheng
> also
> > agreed with this.
> >
> > Pedro.
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 6:54 PM Naveen Swamy  wrote:
> >
> > > I do not think there needs to be a distinction made for
> > > support/office-hours by committer or contributors(in this case Amazon
> > > employed contributors) -- correct me if I misunderstood your guess :).
> > > Like I said, I would rather call it MXNet Office hours and categorize
> the
> > > kind of support that is offered, we might be able to find contributors
> > > willing to do this in different parts of the world regardless of their
> > day
> > > job or not.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:21 AM, Sheng Zha  wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm guessing Mu's intention is to make it clear that such invitation
> is
> > > > extended by teams in Amazon/AWS instead of by 

Re: Request for feedback: proposal for MXNet SDK Office hours

2018-07-23 Thread Hen
Noting that, as far as I can tell, there is no such thing as 'MXNet SDK',
'AWS MXNet SDK' or 'Amazon MXNet SDK'.

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 2:30 PM, Mu Li  wrote:

> A minor suggestion: rename MXNet SDK to AWS MXNet SDK or Amazon MXNet SDK.
>
> On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 2:22 PM, Davydenko, Denis <
> dzianis.davydze...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello, MXNet community,
> >
> > Following up on recent announcement of office hours introduction from
> > MXNet Berlin team,  we are trying to see if we can introduce some
> > modifications to that to make process a bit more streamlined and easier
> to
> > track. Also, we are trying to see how to scale that process to allow
> other
> > MXNet teams to provide this channel of support to their customers. With
> > that in mind, I would like to ask for your feedback on the proposal [1].
> >
> > [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/
> > PROPOSAL%3A+MXNet+SDK+Office+Hours
> >
> >
> >
>


Re: Request for feedback: proposal for MXNet SDK Office hours

2018-07-23 Thread Hen
My concerns on Office Hours are:

1) Voice and F2F are not very welcoming for a diverse community. There I
am, sitting in New Zealand, and you want me to get on the phone and wake up
the rest of the family to have a conversation. Or get on a plane.
2) Having to book time is also not very welcoming. I would expect the
booking time notion to happen because too many requests for help are
happening and it's not possible to handle them all; or because no one ever
shows up (in which case congrats, free time for the committers to chat
about ideas - provided it doesn't stop people asking for help).

Have you tried the more classic Open Source approach of a specific time on
an IM channel to discuss? Apache often uses IRC (irc.freenode.net).

Hen



On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 7:36 PM, Naveen Swamy  wrote:

> Hey All, just created a INFRA ticket(https://issues.apache.o
> rg/jira/browse/INFRA-16805)  requesting a new Issue Type "Office Hours" on
> JIRA to better manage and support Office hours request.
>
> One feedback I received was that  "Apache" was neither mentioned in the
> discussion nor in the PROPOSAL on the wiki. This is a valid feedback and I
> have fixed the PROPOSAL.
> I propose the office hours under discussion should be explicitly called
> "Apache MXNet Office hours".
>
> Also, Apache INFRA asked to create INFRA tickets only through mentors
>
> Can one of the mentors kindly help take this ticket forward.
>
> Thanks, Naveen
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Pedro Larroy <
> pedro.larroy.li...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > Yes Naveen, I think you are saying exactly the same as I hinted. Sheng
> also
> > agreed with this.
> >
> > Pedro.
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 6:54 PM Naveen Swamy  wrote:
> >
> > > I do not think there needs to be a distinction made for
> > > support/office-hours by committer or contributors(in this case Amazon
> > > employed contributors) -- correct me if I misunderstood your guess :).
> > > Like I said, I would rather call it MXNet Office hours and categorize
> the
> > > kind of support that is offered, we might be able to find contributors
> > > willing to do this in different parts of the world regardless of their
> > day
> > > job or not.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:21 AM, Sheng Zha  wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm guessing Mu's intention is to make it clear that such invitation
> is
> > > > extended by teams in Amazon/AWS instead of by committers, so as to
> > avoid
> > > > the confusion of the naming "MXNet SDK". Suggestions to achieve the
> > same
> > > > goal are welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > -sz
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Isabel Drost-Fromm <
> isa...@apache.org
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 18/07/18 23:30, Mu Li wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> A minor suggestion: rename MXNet SDK to AWS MXNet SDK or Amazon
> > MXNet
> > > > SDK.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > What exactly is the Amazon MXNet SDK? What is the AWS MXNet SDK?
> > > > >
> > > > > Your suggestion triggered my question because:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#products
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Isabel
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>


Re: Request for feedback: proposal for MXNet SDK Office hours

2018-07-23 Thread Naveen Swamy
Hey All, just created a INFRA ticket(https://issues.apache.o
rg/jira/browse/INFRA-16805)  requesting a new Issue Type "Office Hours" on
JIRA to better manage and support Office hours request.

One feedback I received was that  "Apache" was neither mentioned in the
discussion nor in the PROPOSAL on the wiki. This is a valid feedback and I
have fixed the PROPOSAL.
I propose the office hours under discussion should be explicitly called
"Apache MXNet Office hours".

Also, Apache INFRA asked to create INFRA tickets only through mentors

Can one of the mentors kindly help take this ticket forward.

Thanks, Naveen




On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Pedro Larroy  wrote:

> Yes Naveen, I think you are saying exactly the same as I hinted. Sheng also
> agreed with this.
>
> Pedro.
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 6:54 PM Naveen Swamy  wrote:
>
> > I do not think there needs to be a distinction made for
> > support/office-hours by committer or contributors(in this case Amazon
> > employed contributors) -- correct me if I misunderstood your guess :).
> > Like I said, I would rather call it MXNet Office hours and categorize the
> > kind of support that is offered, we might be able to find contributors
> > willing to do this in different parts of the world regardless of their
> day
> > job or not.
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:21 AM, Sheng Zha  wrote:
> >
> > > I'm guessing Mu's intention is to make it clear that such invitation is
> > > extended by teams in Amazon/AWS instead of by committers, so as to
> avoid
> > > the confusion of the naming "MXNet SDK". Suggestions to achieve the
> same
> > > goal are welcome.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > -sz
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Isabel Drost-Fromm  >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 18/07/18 23:30, Mu Li wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> A minor suggestion: rename MXNet SDK to AWS MXNet SDK or Amazon
> MXNet
> > > SDK.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > What exactly is the Amazon MXNet SDK? What is the AWS MXNet SDK?
> > > >
> > > > Your suggestion triggered my question because:
> > > >
> > > > https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#products
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Isabel
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>


Re: Request for feedback: proposal for MXNet SDK Office hours

2018-07-19 Thread Pedro Larroy
Yes Naveen, I think you are saying exactly the same as I hinted. Sheng also
agreed with this.

Pedro.

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 6:54 PM Naveen Swamy  wrote:

> I do not think there needs to be a distinction made for
> support/office-hours by committer or contributors(in this case Amazon
> employed contributors) -- correct me if I misunderstood your guess :).
> Like I said, I would rather call it MXNet Office hours and categorize the
> kind of support that is offered, we might be able to find contributors
> willing to do this in different parts of the world regardless of their day
> job or not.
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:21 AM, Sheng Zha  wrote:
>
> > I'm guessing Mu's intention is to make it clear that such invitation is
> > extended by teams in Amazon/AWS instead of by committers, so as to avoid
> > the confusion of the naming "MXNet SDK". Suggestions to achieve the same
> > goal are welcome.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > -sz
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Isabel Drost-Fromm 
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 18/07/18 23:30, Mu Li wrote:
> > >
> > >> A minor suggestion: rename MXNet SDK to AWS MXNet SDK or Amazon MXNet
> > SDK.
> > >>
> > >
> > > What exactly is the Amazon MXNet SDK? What is the AWS MXNet SDK?
> > >
> > > Your suggestion triggered my question because:
> > >
> > > https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#products
> > >
> > >
> > > Isabel
> > >
> > >
> >
>


Re: Request for feedback: proposal for MXNet SDK Office hours

2018-07-19 Thread Sheng Zha
Thanks. Yeah, I think naming after focused area instead of Amazon internal
organization/team names would likely work better. That way, others who'd
like to offer help in that area can just jump in and start helping.

-sz

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:51 AM, Pedro Larroy 
wrote:

> There's an MXNet comitter in our office hours (Marco de Abreu @marcoabreu),
> others are contributors such as Anton (@lebeg) or others. I think we could
> refocus the conversation to the point that the office hours might have some
> emphasis in a particular area of MXNet.
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 6:21 PM Sheng Zha  wrote:
>
> > I'm guessing Mu's intention is to make it clear that such invitation is
> > extended by teams in Amazon/AWS instead of by committers, so as to avoid
> > the confusion of the naming "MXNet SDK". Suggestions to achieve the same
> > goal are welcome.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > -sz
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Isabel Drost-Fromm 
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 18/07/18 23:30, Mu Li wrote:
> > >
> > >> A minor suggestion: rename MXNet SDK to AWS MXNet SDK or Amazon MXNet
> > SDK.
> > >>
> > >
> > > What exactly is the Amazon MXNet SDK? What is the AWS MXNet SDK?
> > >
> > > Your suggestion triggered my question because:
> > >
> > > https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#products
> > >
> > >
> > > Isabel
> > >
> > >
> >
>


Re: Request for feedback: proposal for MXNet SDK Office hours

2018-07-19 Thread Naveen Swamy
I do not think there needs to be a distinction made for
support/office-hours by committer or contributors(in this case Amazon
employed contributors) -- correct me if I misunderstood your guess :).
Like I said, I would rather call it MXNet Office hours and categorize the
kind of support that is offered, we might be able to find contributors
willing to do this in different parts of the world regardless of their day
job or not.

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:21 AM, Sheng Zha  wrote:

> I'm guessing Mu's intention is to make it clear that such invitation is
> extended by teams in Amazon/AWS instead of by committers, so as to avoid
> the confusion of the naming "MXNet SDK". Suggestions to achieve the same
> goal are welcome.
>
> Best regards,
> -sz
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Isabel Drost-Fromm 
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On 18/07/18 23:30, Mu Li wrote:
> >
> >> A minor suggestion: rename MXNet SDK to AWS MXNet SDK or Amazon MXNet
> SDK.
> >>
> >
> > What exactly is the Amazon MXNet SDK? What is the AWS MXNet SDK?
> >
> > Your suggestion triggered my question because:
> >
> > https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#products
> >
> >
> > Isabel
> >
> >
>


Re: Request for feedback: proposal for MXNet SDK Office hours

2018-07-19 Thread Pedro Larroy
There's an MXNet comitter in our office hours (Marco de Abreu @marcoabreu),
others are contributors such as Anton (@lebeg) or others. I think we could
refocus the conversation to the point that the office hours might have some
emphasis in a particular area of MXNet.

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 6:21 PM Sheng Zha  wrote:

> I'm guessing Mu's intention is to make it clear that such invitation is
> extended by teams in Amazon/AWS instead of by committers, so as to avoid
> the confusion of the naming "MXNet SDK". Suggestions to achieve the same
> goal are welcome.
>
> Best regards,
> -sz
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Isabel Drost-Fromm 
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On 18/07/18 23:30, Mu Li wrote:
> >
> >> A minor suggestion: rename MXNet SDK to AWS MXNet SDK or Amazon MXNet
> SDK.
> >>
> >
> > What exactly is the Amazon MXNet SDK? What is the AWS MXNet SDK?
> >
> > Your suggestion triggered my question because:
> >
> > https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#products
> >
> >
> > Isabel
> >
> >
>


Re: Request for feedback: proposal for MXNet SDK Office hours

2018-07-19 Thread Sheng Zha
I'm guessing Mu's intention is to make it clear that such invitation is
extended by teams in Amazon/AWS instead of by committers, so as to avoid
the confusion of the naming "MXNet SDK". Suggestions to achieve the same
goal are welcome.

Best regards,
-sz

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Isabel Drost-Fromm 
wrote:

>
>
> On 18/07/18 23:30, Mu Li wrote:
>
>> A minor suggestion: rename MXNet SDK to AWS MXNet SDK or Amazon MXNet SDK.
>>
>
> What exactly is the Amazon MXNet SDK? What is the AWS MXNet SDK?
>
> Your suggestion triggered my question because:
>
> https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#products
>
>
> Isabel
>
>


Re: Request for feedback: proposal for MXNet SDK Office hours

2018-07-19 Thread Isabel Drost-Fromm




On 18/07/18 23:30, Mu Li wrote:

A minor suggestion: rename MXNet SDK to AWS MXNet SDK or Amazon MXNet SDK.


What exactly is the Amazon MXNet SDK? What is the AWS MXNet SDK?

Your suggestion triggered my question because:

https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#products


Isabel



Re: Request for feedback: proposal for MXNet SDK Office hours

2018-07-18 Thread Naveen Swamy
I think this should be called MXNet Office hours and in a subsection spell
what is supported now(expectation)? Amazon contributors could lead part of
the effort? and later have other interested contributors join this effort.

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 2:30 PM, Mu Li  wrote:

> A minor suggestion: rename MXNet SDK to AWS MXNet SDK or Amazon MXNet SDK.
>
> On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 2:22 PM, Davydenko, Denis <
> dzianis.davydze...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello, MXNet community,
> >
> > Following up on recent announcement of office hours introduction from
> > MXNet Berlin team,  we are trying to see if we can introduce some
> > modifications to that to make process a bit more streamlined and easier
> to
> > track. Also, we are trying to see how to scale that process to allow
> other
> > MXNet teams to provide this channel of support to their customers. With
> > that in mind, I would like to ask for your feedback on the proposal [1].
> >
> > [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/
> > PROPOSAL%3A+MXNet+SDK+Office+Hours
> >
> >
> >
>


Re: Request for feedback: proposal for MXNet SDK Office hours

2018-07-18 Thread Mu Li
A minor suggestion: rename MXNet SDK to AWS MXNet SDK or Amazon MXNet SDK.

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 2:22 PM, Davydenko, Denis <
dzianis.davydze...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello, MXNet community,
>
> Following up on recent announcement of office hours introduction from
> MXNet Berlin team,  we are trying to see if we can introduce some
> modifications to that to make process a bit more streamlined and easier to
> track. Also, we are trying to see how to scale that process to allow other
> MXNet teams to provide this channel of support to their customers. With
> that in mind, I would like to ask for your feedback on the proposal [1].
>
> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/
> PROPOSAL%3A+MXNet+SDK+Office+Hours
>
>
>