Re: [native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Change in Lead

2010-10-19 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
Le Tue, 19 Oct 2010 09:45:30 +0200,
Simon Brouwer simon.o...@xs4all.nl a écrit :

 
 
 Charles-H. Schulz schreef:
  Hello everyone,
 
  I just wanted to clarify things (again).
  I am going to leave the project / we, the founders of the Document
  Foundation, are going to leave the project at some given time and
  have every intention to keep things clear and clean.
 
  But I/we are not going to be thrown out by people who just feel they
  can get away with zero formality, and zero explanation, and by
  ignoring our very own guidelines.
 
 Didn't Louis already explain that that is not what's happening?

After we complained heavily, yes. And I don't find his explanation to
be satisfactory. For other people (the now former treasurers) things
are quite clear and they were asked to resign. 

 
  Is that clear to everyone? I'm not insane, I
  just want, just like the people from Oracle, a bit of respect.
 
 The way I see it, you're actually getting that, while not exactly
 trying hard to earn it. Please try to be rational and keep following
 that intention to keep things clear and clean.

Please define how I'm not being rational.
In the meantime, and given the fact that we're going nowhere and that
the tone is going up, I would like to request that the entire Community
Council, given the quite large number of people including every member
of the CC who's not working for Oracle who's moving/migrating/staying
here but contributing  to LibO and moving away/leaving OOo, should
resign and that general elections should be conducted (Hint: I won't
run this time, for people who still have their doubts). 

It would show at least some sensitivity to the fact that the OOo
project has failed in at least some regard. 

Best,
Charles. 


 
 



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Re: [native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Change in Lead

2010-10-18 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
Hello Martin,


Le Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:16:55 +0200,
Martin Hollmichel martin.hollmic...@oracle.com a écrit :

 
  On 10/18/2010 11:37 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
  Please define why my new role would
  confuse the OpenOffice.org community.
 maybe
 http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=releasesmsgNo=16165
 helps understanding,

Actually not that much. What is implied here could be implied just as
well for Oracle Open Office. But as Bruce just wrote: Washing us off
with the notion of conflict of interest  is an interesting way to brush
away deep issues pertaining to the OOo project and community. 

Martin: the community is leaving. It's time to wake up and face these
facts (oh I know,  there are exceptions, but there are always
exceptions). 

Best,

Charles. 

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[native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Change in Lead

2010-10-18 Thread Pavel Janík


On 18.10.2010, at 15:56, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:


Martin: the community is leaving.


No no. Charles and co left (or leaving, slowly so the damage to the  
OOo and the project is bigger...). That's correct. Nothing else.  
Community didn't left. Community of OpenOffice.org is still here.

--
Pavel Janík



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Re: [native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Change in Lead

2010-10-18 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
Le Mon, 18 Oct 2010 16:10:44 +0200,
Pavel Janík pa...@janik.cz a écrit :

 
 
 On 18.10.2010, at 15:56, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
 
  Martin: the community is leaving.
 
 No no. Charles and co left (or leaving, slowly so the damage to the  
 OOo and the project is bigger...). That's correct. Nothing else.  
 Community didn't left. Community of OpenOffice.org is still here.

No No No. The community (most of the NLC, not you Pavel, most of the QA
community, probably most of the Marketing volunteers, the independent
developers and non Oracle developers (not you Pavel) are moving to the
Document Foundation. But I accept the term Charles and co, it's
somewhat reducing though :-)

best,
Charles. 

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[native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Change in Lead

2010-10-18 Thread Martin Hollmichel
 On 10/18/2010 06:50 PM, Christian Lippka wrote:
  Hi Charles,

 Am 18.10.2010 17:28, schrieb Charles-H. Schulz:
 Le Mon, 18 Oct 2010 16:10:44 +0200,
 Pavel Janíkpa...@janik.cz  a écrit :


 On 18.10.2010, at 15:56, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

 Martin: the community is leaving.
 No no. Charles and co left (or leaving, slowly so the damage to the
 OOo and the project is bigger...). That's correct. Nothing else.
 Community didn't left. Community of OpenOffice.org is still here.
 No No No. The community (most of the NLC, not you Pavel, most of the QA
 community, probably most of the Marketing volunteers, the independent
 developers and non Oracle developers (not you Pavel) are moving to the
 Document Foundation. But I accept the term Charles and co, it's
 somewhat reducing though :-)

 Sorry, but this gets confusing. You are saying you are leaving, but
 you say you also stay.
 You say you are most of the community (except Oracle and Pavel
 obviously) but at
 the same time you leave 'the community' no choice because where should
 they go
 if they do not want to leave with you? Since if they just stay here
 they are at the same
 position that you are leaving to. Maybe I'm not educated enough in
 graph theories but I'm not
 sure where you are, where you want to stay and how you can leave
 without moving.

 Is it that you leave but stay at the same place and expect Oracle and
 Pavel to drift
 away?

 Maybe there are drugs that can help me solve this mystery
no, it's not worth the effort, just put him into ignore mode since he is
only trying to provoke us, to be able to tell the story that we are the
bad guys throwing him out the council.
Instead of following these fruitless threads we should concentrate on
the work we have to do, to address the issues and concerns our community
has, the work and feedback we get is indeed invaluable and we would be
insane if we would not continue to work on this. But I also have respect
of those who decided to go their own way and open alternatives. And most
of community people are in the comfortable situation to continue to
contribute to both projects for a long time before they might be in the
need to decide for one of the branches and let the facts decide. But I
expect from the leader of the LO efforts not to play kindergarten but to
really lead their fork, otherwise they might end in confinement on a
lonely island.

 Anyway let me formulate a question, where should the part of the pre
 foundation fork
 community go that do not like to identify with the foundation? I'm not
 talking about Oracle
 people here we will do just fine, I'm talking about Pavel and others.
 Is it fair from your
 side to rob them the name 'OpenOffice.org community' ?

 Why are you not wearing your colors, walk and march under the libre
 flag, show it proud (as
 you do on press releases and events).

+1
 Regards,
 Christian

Martin


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