Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-14 Thread William L. Thomson Jr.
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 10:20:17 -0400 Scott Palmer wrote: > > On Mar 14, 2018, at 3:01 AM, > > wrote: > > > > There's a problem with this whole discussion. Participants are > > mixing criticism of webapps with criticism of

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-14 Thread Scott Palmer
> On Mar 14, 2018, at 3:01 AM, > wrote: > > There's a problem with this whole discussion. Participants are mixing > criticism of webapps with criticism of Desktop applications which use a > HTML5Component as their renderer. I don't know if I

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-14 Thread Timon Veenstra
> > > To help us out of this situation and save Java as a programming language I > dedicated my days to smoothing out interoperability between Java and > JavaScript with the goal to reuse the most flexible and portable rendering > system of these days: the browser. My work has already been donated

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-14 Thread Neil C Smith
Hi Toni, On Wed, 14 Mar 2018, 07:35 , wrote: > Regarding the architecture: In a plain DukeScript application we're > starting a normal Java process. This process starts a HTML5Renderer using a > "Presenter", e.g embedded chromium. The task of the Presenter is to take >

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-13 Thread Glenn Holmer
On 03/13/2018 12:13 AM, cowwoc wrote: > Web-based development is cool because everyone is jumping on board. It > isn't cool because it's better. Every week there is a new framework. The > level of cross-platform compatibility doesn't begin to compare to Java. > You have portability problems across

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-13 Thread Wade Chandler
> On Mar 13, 2018, at 3:04 AM, > wrote: > > Hi Wade, > > I agree, desktop isn't going away. At DukeScript we're using HTML4J Apis > mainly for desktop applications. The Java Desktop Application is just using a > HTML5-Component ("browser") to

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-13 Thread Neil C Smith
On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 at 08:56 wrote: > > We need a way to render Swing on a web browser canvas! > > We were actually thinking about doing this using DukeScript a while ago > to allow people to run their legacy applications. It would be doable. Reminds me of this -

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-13 Thread Emilian Bold
HTML4J goes the wrong way in providing a migration path. We don't need new ways to embed components into Swing. We could already embed JavaFX stuff and now we can also embed HTML stuff (rendered by JavaFX). We need a way to render Swing on a web browser canvas! Then, after Swing is fully in

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-13 Thread Tim Boudreau
First - we're talking 8 years from now. Eight years is a long time. That doesn't mean don't be ready for it, but it does mean don't panic. Secondly, what it means is that Oracle doesn't plan to develop AWT and Swing after that point. That doesn't mean nobody will or could. That said, the way

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread cowwoc
: Matthias Bläsing [mailto:mblaes...@doppel-helix.eu] Sent: March 12, 2018 1:37 PM To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK Am Montag, den 12.03.2018, 17:26 + schrieb Neil C Smith: On Mon, 12 Mar 201

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Wade Chandler
On Mar 12, 2018 11:59, "Jaroslav Tulach" wrote: > "Oracle has begun conversations with interested parties in the Java > ecosystem on the stewardship of JavaFX, Swing and AWT beyond the above referenced timeframes." >>> >> The official announcement is here

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Eirik Bakke
All of Minecraft (acquired by Microsoft in 2014 for 2.5 billion dollars) is written in Java, using LWJGL to access OpenGL. So even if Swing and AWT dies completely in 10

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Neil C Smith
Hi, On Mon, 12 Mar 2018, 21:52 , wrote: > No, Electron is not involved so far, although it probably would work. On > most of our supported platforms we have a "real" Java application talk to > JavaScript via a Java-JavaScript Bridge. Similar to what you can do in a >

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Chuck Davis
> From: Matthias Bläsing [mailto:mblaes...@doppel-helix.eu] > Sent: March 12, 2018 1:37 PM > To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX > from Oracle JDK > > Am Montag, den 12.03.2018, 17:26 + schrieb Neil C Smi

RE: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Kenneth Fogel
As far as I can tell Swing and AWT were pretty much abandoned years ago except for maintenance. Ken -Original Message- From: Matthias Bläsing [mailto:mblaes...@doppel-helix.eu] Sent: March 12, 2018 1:37 PM To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead

RE: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Kenneth Fogel
This is most distressing to me. You point out that "no new rendering pipelines using new nifty features of graphics cards". It implies that serious graphics application will need to be written in C/C++ and OpenGL. By my twisted logic it can also be said that EE is dead too because its been spun

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Neil C Smith
Hi Toni, On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 at 17:51 wrote: > At DukeScript (http://dukescript.com) we have plenty of HTML4J renderers > other than JavaFX (Chromium via JXBrowser, ios WebView via Multi OS Engine > and MobiVM, Android WebView, plain Webkit, Instrumented Browser...) and

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Neil C Smith
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 at 17:36 Matthias Bläsing wrote: > My reading is a bit less *heaven will fall*: > ... > * The future of Swing and AWT is not yet decided > Same here! And I agree with you. That document doesn't say anything about post-J2SE 11. I'm questioning

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Matthias Bläsing
Am Montag, den 12.03.2018, 17:26 + schrieb Neil C Smith: > On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 at 17:12 Geertjan Wielenga < > geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote: > > > I really wouldn't be worried at all about something that will be > > supported > > "through at least 2026". > > > > In a public,

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Neil C Smith
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 at 17:12 Geertjan Wielenga < geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote: > I really wouldn't be worried at all about something that will be supported > "through at least 2026". > In a public, freely available JDK? Best wishes, Neil -- Neil C Smith Artist & Technologist

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Gonzalo Ortiz Jaureguizar
2018-03-12 18:21 GMT+01:00 Zoran Sevarac : > > I understood that the same way. Thats 8 yrs from now, and till that time > JavaScript will hopefully die :) > Or maybe Panama finally reach the JDK and it is easy to use Qt

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Bernd Ruehlicke
Indeed, lets look forward, I have not looked at JavaScript as always being into heavy desktop Swing apps. Over the years it has helped me with a demo app showing all kind of features a given system allows me to use. Like a toolbox, which I run and say - hey that's the component I need. Is

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Zoran Sevarac
> > as far as I can see, there's nothing about end of awt or swing support: > "Oracle will continue developing Swing and AWT in Java SE 8 and Java SE 11 > (18.9 LTS). This means they will be supported by Oracle through at least > 2026." > I understood that the same way. Thats 8 yrs from now, and

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Peter Nabbefeld
Hi, as far as I can see, there's nothing about end of awt or swing support: "Oracle will continue developing Swing and AWT in Java SE 8 and Java SE 11 (18.9 LTS). This means they will be supported by Oracle through at least 2026." Kind regards Peter Am 12.03.2018 um 16:59 schrieb

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Peter Nabbefeld
Ouch - just answered to the thread, but used the wrong article to respond, sorry. Regards P. Am 12.03.2018 um 18:12 schrieb Geertjan Wielenga: Well, when I read the blog below from Oracle's Donald Smith, in charge of all Java things, Swing isn't even mentioned, i.e., it is all about JavaFX:

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Geertjan Wielenga
Well, when I read the blog below from Oracle's Donald Smith, in charge of all Java things, Swing isn't even mentioned, i.e., it is all about JavaFX: https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/the-future-of-javafx-and-other-java-client-roadmap-updates That means for AWT and Swing, everything is

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Peter Nabbefeld
Hi, has everybody discussing here actually read the document ("Java Client Roadmap Update")? There's nothing about end of awt or swing support: "Oracle will continue developing Swing and AWT in Java SE 8 and Java SE 11 (18.9 LTS). This means they will be supported by Oracle through at

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Matthias Bläsing
Hey, Am Montag, den 12.03.2018, 16:59 +0100 schrieb Jaroslav Tulach: > > "Oracle has begun conversations with interested parties in the Java > > ecosystem on the stewardship of JavaFX, Swing and AWT beyond the > > above > > > > > referenced timeframes." > > > > > > > Forget about AWT, Swing and

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Neil C Smith
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 at 16:33 John Kostaras wrote: > If this is the case with the Java kingdom, then all these apps will move to > other technologies that take advantage of the new hardware and the GPUs. > The Java kingdom does have quite a few of these things outside of the

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Peter Steele
And there is Apache pivot, being Apache maybe we could get help in any migration if that was the path chosen On 12 Mar 2018 16:39, "Peter Steele" wrote: > To be clear (which i wasn't) i meant eclipse RCP is pretty popular, it > uses swt as it's foundation. Could netbeans

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Peter Steele
To be clear (which i wasn't) i meant eclipse RCP is pretty popular, it uses swt as it's foundation. Could netbeans use swt as it's foundations too? On 12 Mar 2018 16:36, "Peter Steele" wrote: > What about the eclipse RCP framework which uses swt? This would seem to be > a

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Peter Steele
What about the eclipse RCP framework which uses swt? This would seem to be a much better solution than having a html front end. On 12 Mar 2018 16:25, "Neil C Smith" wrote: > On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 at 15:59 Jaroslav Tulach > wrote: > > > Forget

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread John Kostaras
All very nice with HTML UI and the browser, but what about standalone apps that need near real time performance. They cannot count on the browser and on Javascript I 'm afraid. They need Swing and/or JavaFX or something similar. If this is the case with the Java kingdom, then all these apps will

Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

2018-03-12 Thread Neil C Smith
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 at 15:59 Jaroslav Tulach wrote: > Forget about AWT, Swing and JavaFX - the future is HTML. In case you still > care about Java, then your future should be Apache HTML/Java API! > Generally inclined to agree with you - definitely on forgetting