Re: [Mwiki] a massive spam attack. Again

2014-02-07 Thread Marcus (OOo)

Am 02/07/2014 12:45 AM, schrieb Rob Weir:

On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 6:21 PM, jan ij...@apache.org  wrote:

On 6 February 2014 23:42, Andrea Pescettipesce...@apache.org  wrote:


jan i wrote:


I warned about exactly that, but  I was asked (see JIRAs) to remove the
cats (captcha). If you read the JIRA (which was watched be several in
here)
you will see my warning.



The idea was to replace the CAPTCHA with something better, otherwise we
can (should) keep the current CAPTCHA and discuss a better solution in the
meantime.

The cats cause incompatibilities and other issues, but if they are much
more effective than the replacement let's go back to the cats as soon as
possible and in the see what's best to replace them (but something MORE
effective, not LESS effective!).



May I politely correct you, the idea was NOT to replace the cats. The jira
was implemented by the word !

The exact wording is:

Wiki6: Cats/Dogs CAPTCHA for new user registration is quite broken. It
doesn't work in several browser configurations, it includes HTTP instead of
HTTPS https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=123695 -  Recommended
solution: drop it entirely.  

That statement is pretty clear, how it can be read as moving to something
more effective slips my mind.

later the jira contains:

accessibility suggestion from Tyler (haven't tested MediaWiki
compatibility): there is a website which provides text-based CAPTCHA's in
the form of logic questions, math problems, etc. It provides an XML API.
See http://www.textcaptcha.com/ 

Apart from the facts, thats its a suggestion and not a decision (like that
above),  we do not use extensions that are not supported by mediawiki
(meaning downloadable from mediawiki.com and verified for our release). As
a sidenote, that captcha is pretty much the same as the standard which are
active right now. There are quite a lot of captcha´s out there, just
looking at mediawiki.com extensions gives a lot of choises.

At this point in time we have several choices:
1) leave the config as it is
2) reinstall cats
3) choose another captcha (in this case we need to decide which one).

I am not the one to overrule a community decision (Wiki6), but I will
happely implement another community decision.



I hope you can simply restore cats if that can be done without too
much trouble.  Then we can discuss further and come to a community
decision on what else to do, if anything.  I hope you agree that there
is zero benefit to accumulating additional spam while we discuss.

Fix the immediate problem, then we can discuss longer term.  This one
area that Apache Infra knows how to do well.  They know when it is
important to act rather than discuss.  I suggest that this is one of
those times.


Right, especially when there is already a solution that is working 
(mostly resp. for the most people).


Thanks Jan.

Marcus

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[Mwiki] a massive spam attack. Again

2014-02-06 Thread helen

Hi there,

I'm Helen, a Wiki admin. https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Helen_russian

Since 5th Feb. MWiki is under a massive spam attack.
Please take a look: https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Special:Log/delete 
, https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Special:Log/block


Please help.

--
Regards,
Helen



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Re: [Mwiki] a massive spam attack. Again

2014-02-06 Thread Kay Schenk
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:06 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote:

 On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 1:28 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote:
  On 6 February 2014 19:00, helen helenruss...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Hi there,
 
  I'm Helen, a Wi admin.
 https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Helen_russian
 
  Since 5th Feb. MWiki is under a massive spam attack.
  Please take a look: https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Special:Log/delete,
  https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Special:Log/block
 
 
  I warned about exactly that, but  I was asked (see JIRAs) to remove the
  cats (captcha). If you read the JIRA (which was watched be several in
 here)
  you will see my warning.
 
  The simple captcha we have in place, is browser safe, but not very
  efficient. I assume the admins as such wanted the change (otherwise I am
  sure the task would not have been added).
 
  Another captcha was suggested, but with the note not tested on
 mediawiki
  (or something similar). We only install extensions supported by mediawiki
  of course.
 

 A simpler solution:  Why not add back the cat captcha, but only show
 it to the spammers?


LOL!



 Regards,

 -Rob

 (OK.  That is a joke.  But I was once asked by a manager, many years
 ago, to improve a spell checker so it only reported misspellings of
 words that were in the dictionary.)


  If the admins wants a change, then please have a discussion about it on
 the
  ML, and once agreed upon, file a JIRA.
 
  rgds
  jan I.
 
 
  Please help.
 
  --
  Regards,
  Helen
 
 
 
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-- 
-
MzK

Cats do not have to be shown how to have a good time,
 for they are unfailing ingenious in that respect.
   -- James Mason


Re: [Mwiki] a massive spam attack. Again

2014-02-06 Thread jan i
On 6 February 2014 21:06, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote:

 On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 1:28 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote:
  On 6 February 2014 19:00, helen helenruss...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Hi there,
 
  I'm Helen, a Wi admin.
 https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Helen_russian
 
  Since 5th Feb. MWiki is under a massive spam attack.
  Please take a look: https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Special:Log/delete,
  https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Special:Log/block
 
 
  I warned about exactly that, but  I was asked (see JIRAs) to remove the
  cats (captcha). If you read the JIRA (which was watched be several in
 here)
  you will see my warning.
 
  The simple captcha we have in place, is browser safe, but not very
  efficient. I assume the admins as such wanted the change (otherwise I am
  sure the task would not have been added).
 
  Another captcha was suggested, but with the note not tested on
 mediawiki
  (or something similar). We only install extensions supported by mediawiki
  of course.
 

 A simpler solution:  Why not add back the cat captcha, but only show
 it to the spammers?

 Regards,

 -Rob

 (OK.  That is a joke.  But I was once asked by a manager, many years
 ago, to improve a spell checker so it only reported misspellings of
 words that were in the dictionary.)


I am happy, someone can make a joke out of a self imposed spam attack.

I am surely too serious in my work, but would much more ike to see a
community agreed solution, before we end having all admins fight spam (just
remember last time).

rgds
jan I.



  If the admins wants a change, then please have a discussion about it on
 the
  ML, and once agreed upon, file a JIRA.
 
  rgds
  jan I.
 
 
  Please help.
 
  --
  Regards,
  Helen
 
 
 
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Re: [Mwiki] a massive spam attack. Again

2014-02-06 Thread Andrea Pescetti

jan i wrote:

I warned about exactly that, but  I was asked (see JIRAs) to remove the
cats (captcha). If you read the JIRA (which was watched be several in here)
you will see my warning.


The idea was to replace the CAPTCHA with something better, otherwise we 
can (should) keep the current CAPTCHA and discuss a better solution in 
the meantime.


The cats cause incompatibilities and other issues, but if they are much 
more effective than the replacement let's go back to the cats as soon as 
possible and in the meantime see what's best to replace them (but 
something MORE effective, not LESS effective!).


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: [Mwiki] a massive spam attack. Again

2014-02-06 Thread jan i
On 6 February 2014 23:42, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote:

 jan i wrote:

 I warned about exactly that, but  I was asked (see JIRAs) to remove the
 cats (captcha). If you read the JIRA (which was watched be several in
 here)
 you will see my warning.


 The idea was to replace the CAPTCHA with something better, otherwise we
 can (should) keep the current CAPTCHA and discuss a better solution in the
 meantime.

 The cats cause incompatibilities and other issues, but if they are much
 more effective than the replacement let's go back to the cats as soon as
 possible and in the see what's best to replace them (but something MORE
 effective, not LESS effective!).


May I politely correct you, the idea was NOT to replace the cats. The jira
was implemented by the word !

The exact wording is:

Wiki6: Cats/Dogs CAPTCHA for new user registration is quite broken. It
doesn't work in several browser configurations, it includes HTTP instead of
HTTPS https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=123695 - Recommended
solution: drop it entirely.  

That statement is pretty clear, how it can be read as moving to something
more effective slips my mind.

later the jira contains:

accessibility suggestion from Tyler (haven't tested MediaWiki
compatibility): there is a website which provides text-based CAPTCHA's in
the form of logic questions, math problems, etc. It provides an XML API.
See http://www.textcaptcha.com/ 

Apart from the facts, thats its a suggestion and not a decision (like that
above),  we do not use extensions that are not supported by mediawiki
(meaning downloadable from mediawiki.com and verified for our release). As
a sidenote, that captcha is pretty much the same as the standard which are
active right now. There are quite a lot of captcha´s out there, just
looking at mediawiki.com extensions gives a lot of choises.

At this point in time we have several choices:
1) leave the config as it is
2) reinstall cats
3) choose another captcha (in this case we need to decide which one).

I am not the one to overrule a community decision (Wiki6), but I will
happely implement another community decision.

rgds
jan I.





 Regards,
   Andrea.


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Re: [Mwiki] a massive spam attack. Again

2014-02-06 Thread Rob Weir
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 6:21 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote:
 On 6 February 2014 23:42, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote:

 jan i wrote:

 I warned about exactly that, but  I was asked (see JIRAs) to remove the
 cats (captcha). If you read the JIRA (which was watched be several in
 here)
 you will see my warning.


 The idea was to replace the CAPTCHA with something better, otherwise we
 can (should) keep the current CAPTCHA and discuss a better solution in the
 meantime.

 The cats cause incompatibilities and other issues, but if they are much
 more effective than the replacement let's go back to the cats as soon as
 possible and in the see what's best to replace them (but something MORE
 effective, not LESS effective!).


 May I politely correct you, the idea was NOT to replace the cats. The jira
 was implemented by the word !

 The exact wording is:

 Wiki6: Cats/Dogs CAPTCHA for new user registration is quite broken. It
 doesn't work in several browser configurations, it includes HTTP instead of
 HTTPS https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=123695 - Recommended
 solution: drop it entirely.  

 That statement is pretty clear, how it can be read as moving to something
 more effective slips my mind.

 later the jira contains:

 accessibility suggestion from Tyler (haven't tested MediaWiki
 compatibility): there is a website which provides text-based CAPTCHA's in
 the form of logic questions, math problems, etc. It provides an XML API.
 See http://www.textcaptcha.com/ 

 Apart from the facts, thats its a suggestion and not a decision (like that
 above),  we do not use extensions that are not supported by mediawiki
 (meaning downloadable from mediawiki.com and verified for our release). As
 a sidenote, that captcha is pretty much the same as the standard which are
 active right now. There are quite a lot of captcha´s out there, just
 looking at mediawiki.com extensions gives a lot of choises.

 At this point in time we have several choices:
 1) leave the config as it is
 2) reinstall cats
 3) choose another captcha (in this case we need to decide which one).

 I am not the one to overrule a community decision (Wiki6), but I will
 happely implement another community decision.


I hope you can simply restore cats if that can be done without too
much trouble.  Then we can discuss further and come to a community
decision on what else to do, if anything.  I hope you agree that there
is zero benefit to accumulating additional spam while we discuss.

Fix the immediate problem, then we can discuss longer term.  This one
area that Apache Infra knows how to do well.  They know when it is
important to act rather than discuss.  I suggest that this is one of
those times.

Thanks!

-Rob

 rgds
 jan I.





 Regards,
   Andrea.


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Re: [Mwiki] a massive spam attack. Again

2014-02-06 Thread jan i
On 7 February 2014 00:45, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote:

 On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 6:21 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote:
  On 6 February 2014 23:42, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote:
 
  jan i wrote:
 
  I warned about exactly that, but  I was asked (see JIRAs) to remove the
  cats (captcha). If you read the JIRA (which was watched be several in
  here)
  you will see my warning.
 
 
  The idea was to replace the CAPTCHA with something better, otherwise we
  can (should) keep the current CAPTCHA and discuss a better solution in
 the
  meantime.
 
  The cats cause incompatibilities and other issues, but if they are much
  more effective than the replacement let's go back to the cats as soon as
  possible and in the see what's best to replace them (but something MORE
  effective, not LESS effective!).
 
 
  May I politely correct you, the idea was NOT to replace the cats. The
 jira
  was implemented by the word !
 
  The exact wording is:
 
  Wiki6: Cats/Dogs CAPTCHA for new user registration is quite broken. It
  doesn't work in several browser configurations, it includes HTTP instead
 of
  HTTPS https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=123695 -
 Recommended
  solution: drop it entirely.  
 
  That statement is pretty clear, how it can be read as moving to something
  more effective slips my mind.
 
  later the jira contains:
 
  accessibility suggestion from Tyler (haven't tested MediaWiki
  compatibility): there is a website which provides text-based CAPTCHA's in
  the form of logic questions, math problems, etc. It provides an XML API.
  See http://www.textcaptcha.com/ 
 
  Apart from the facts, thats its a suggestion and not a decision (like
 that
  above),  we do not use extensions that are not supported by mediawiki
  (meaning downloadable from mediawiki.com and verified for our release).
 As
  a sidenote, that captcha is pretty much the same as the standard which
 are
  active right now. There are quite a lot of captcha´s out there, just
  looking at mediawiki.com extensions gives a lot of choises.
 
  At this point in time we have several choices:
  1) leave the config as it is
  2) reinstall cats
  3) choose another captcha (in this case we need to decide which one).
 
  I am not the one to overrule a community decision (Wiki6), but I will
  happely implement another community decision.
 

 I hope you can simply restore cats if that can be done without too
 much trouble.  Then we can discuss further and come to a community
 decision on what else to do, if anything.  I hope you agree that there
 is zero benefit to accumulating additional spam while we discuss.


Wiki have been upgraded, and respecting the jira I did not move the cat
extension.


 Fix the immediate problem, then we can discuss longer term.  This one
 area that Apache Infra knows how to do well.  They know when it is
 important to act rather than discuss.  I suggest that this is one of
 those times.


I happen to agree with you, and it has actually not been possible to create
new accounts for a while now.

The configuration is changed so that only sysops can create new accounts.

Now to the other partwe have discussed these issues for quite a long
time, so it was a fair assumption to accept the jira as the community wish.



 Thanks!

 -Rob

  rgds
  jan I.
 
 
 
 
 
  Regards,
Andrea.
 
 
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Re: [Mwiki] a massive spam attack. Again

2014-02-06 Thread Dave Fisher
Hi -

The JIRA is quoted but links or the JIRA ID would be helpful along with a link 
to the ML thread where the decision was made.

It is hard to review this incident without these helpful pointers.

Thanks,
Dave

On Feb 6, 2014, at 4:22 PM, jan i wrote:

 On 7 February 2014 00:45, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote:
 
 On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 6:21 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote:
 On 6 February 2014 23:42, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote:
 
 jan i wrote:
 
 I warned about exactly that, but  I was asked (see JIRAs) to remove the
 cats (captcha). If you read the JIRA (which was watched be several in
 here)
 you will see my warning.
 
 
 The idea was to replace the CAPTCHA with something better, otherwise we
 can (should) keep the current CAPTCHA and discuss a better solution in
 the
 meantime.
 
 The cats cause incompatibilities and other issues, but if they are much
 more effective than the replacement let's go back to the cats as soon as
 possible and in the see what's best to replace them (but something MORE
 effective, not LESS effective!).
 
 
 May I politely correct you, the idea was NOT to replace the cats. The
 jira
 was implemented by the word !
 
 The exact wording is:
 
 Wiki6: Cats/Dogs CAPTCHA for new user registration is quite broken. It
 doesn't work in several browser configurations, it includes HTTP instead
 of
 HTTPS https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=123695 -
 Recommended
 solution: drop it entirely.  
 
 That statement is pretty clear, how it can be read as moving to something
 more effective slips my mind.
 
 later the jira contains:
 
 accessibility suggestion from Tyler (haven't tested MediaWiki
 compatibility): there is a website which provides text-based CAPTCHA's in
 the form of logic questions, math problems, etc. It provides an XML API.
 See http://www.textcaptcha.com/ 
 
 Apart from the facts, thats its a suggestion and not a decision (like
 that
 above),  we do not use extensions that are not supported by mediawiki
 (meaning downloadable from mediawiki.com and verified for our release).
 As
 a sidenote, that captcha is pretty much the same as the standard which
 are
 active right now. There are quite a lot of captcha´s out there, just
 looking at mediawiki.com extensions gives a lot of choises.
 
 At this point in time we have several choices:
 1) leave the config as it is
 2) reinstall cats
 3) choose another captcha (in this case we need to decide which one).
 
 I am not the one to overrule a community decision (Wiki6), but I will
 happely implement another community decision.
 
 
 I hope you can simply restore cats if that can be done without too
 much trouble.  Then we can discuss further and come to a community
 decision on what else to do, if anything.  I hope you agree that there
 is zero benefit to accumulating additional spam while we discuss.
 
 
 Wiki have been upgraded, and respecting the jira I did not move the cat
 extension.
 
 
 Fix the immediate problem, then we can discuss longer term.  This one
 area that Apache Infra knows how to do well.  They know when it is
 important to act rather than discuss.  I suggest that this is one of
 those times.
 
 
 I happen to agree with you, and it has actually not been possible to create
 new accounts for a while now.
 
 The configuration is changed so that only sysops can create new accounts.
 
 Now to the other partwe have discussed these issues for quite a long
 time, so it was a fair assumption to accept the jira as the community wish.
 
 
 
 Thanks!
 
 -Rob
 
 rgds
 jan I.
 
 
 
 
 
 Regards,
  Andrea.
 
 
 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
 
 
 
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Re: [Mwiki] a massive spam attack. Again

2014-02-06 Thread Helen russian
2014-02-07 6:22 GMT+06:00 jan i j...@apache.org:


 The configuration is changed so that only sysops can create new accounts.


A lot of thank you, Jan! You are our savior.

For last 48 hours 3 wiki admins have deleted more than 1300 spam pages
and blocked more than 800 spammer accounts.


-- 
WBR,
Helen

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Re: [Mwiki] a massive spam attack. Again

2014-02-06 Thread Andrea Pescetti

On 07/02/2014 jan i wrote:

May I politely correct you, the idea was NOT to replace the cats. The jira
was implemented by the word !


Yes, probably, but it was badly written in my mail that was then copied 
to JIRA. You, and a few others, know that the contents of that JIRA issue

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7173
result from an afternoon I spent during the holidays trying to put 
together all pending improvement suggestions that had come to us through 
many channels. I didn't take care to put many explanations there.



Wiki6: Cats/Dogs CAPTCHA for new user registration is quite broken. It
doesn't work in several browser configurations, it includes HTTP instead of
HTTPS https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=123695 - Recommended
solution: drop it entirely.  


That specific suggestion was worded that way because I had read from 
someone (you, maybe?) that with the new improvements there could (just a 
possibility) be the possibility to do without the CAPTCHA. We tried, it 
didn't work and it's no problem to fix it immediately.



That statement is pretty clear, how it can be read as moving to something
more effective slips my mind.


I wrote it in a wrong way giving somehow for granted that the MWiki 
upgrade would feature some native anti-spam measures and that those 
measures would suit our purpose. Again, we tried, they didn't, no 
problem to revert quickly.



At this point in time we have several choices:
1) leave the config as it is
2) reinstall cats
3) choose another captcha (in this case we need to decide which one).
I am not the one to overrule a community decision (Wiki6), but I will
happely implement another community decision.


The current remedy you put in place (no self account creation) will 
obviously work for the time being, thanks for being fast in reacting.


So let's move forward and see what we can implement now: where's the 
list of CAPTCHA solutions on mediawiki.com? Do you have any 
recommendations or, on the contrary, any extensions that Infra is not 
going to allow?


(By the way, the CAPTCHA issue exploded before I could review all items, 
but thank you for the work on all other pending issues! And let's get 
this one done properly too)


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: [Mwiki] a massive spam attack. Again

2014-02-06 Thread jan i
On 7 February 2014 08:48, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote:

 On 07/02/2014 jan i wrote:

 May I politely correct you, the idea was NOT to replace the cats. The jira
 was implemented by the word !


 Yes, probably, but it was badly written in my mail that was then copied to
 JIRA. You, and a few others, know that the contents of that JIRA issue
 https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7173
 result from an afternoon I spent during the holidays trying to put
 together all pending improvement suggestions that had come to us through
 many channels. I didn't take care to put many explanations there.


  Wiki6: Cats/Dogs CAPTCHA for new user registration is quite broken. It
 doesn't work in several browser configurations, it includes HTTP instead
 of
 HTTPS https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=123695 - Recommended
 solution: drop it entirely.  


 That specific suggestion was worded that way because I had read from
 someone (you, maybe?) that with the new improvements there could (just a
 possibility) be the possibility to do without the CAPTCHA. We tried, it
 didn't work and it's no problem to fix it immediately.


  That statement is pretty clear, how it can be read as moving to something
 more effective slips my mind.


 I wrote it in a wrong way giving somehow for granted that the MWiki
 upgrade would feature some native anti-spam measures and that those
 measures would suit our purpose. Again, we tried, they didn't, no problem
 to revert quickly.


  At this point in time we have several choices:
 1) leave the config as it is
 2) reinstall cats
 3) choose another captcha (in this case we need to decide which one).
 I am not the one to overrule a community decision (Wiki6), but I will
 happely implement another community decision.


 The current remedy you put in place (no self account creation) will
 obviously work for the time being, thanks for being fast in reacting.

 So let's move forward and see what we can implement now: where's the list
 of CAPTCHA solutions on mediawiki.com? Do you have any recommendations
 or, on the contrary, any extensions that Infra is not going to allow?


Anything found in
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_Matrix/AllExtensions where
mediawiki version allows 1.22 should do.

Especially for CAPTCHA there is one other limitation. The extension must be
self supported, NO calls to third party sites (since this is often used to
collect information).

rgds
jan I.

(By the way, the CAPTCHA issue exploded before I could review all items,
 but thank you for the work on all other pending issues! And let's get this
 one done properly too)


 Regards,
   Andrea.

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