Re: [racket-dev] [plt-edu] Re: TeachScheme! wikipedia page update

2010-06-16 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Please move this discussion to plt-edu-discuss. THANKS. 2010/6/16 Stephen Bloch sbl...@adelphi.edu: ! Program v Design is tt-equivalent to Program - Design and to no program without design But seriously, none of them is as catchy as TeachDesign, which could of course be misread as

[racket-dev] self-documenting feature

2010-07-19 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Python apparently has a feature where you essentially put the contract/purpose in the text of a function, and when you type the function's name, it prints out that documentation. (It sounds like the docstrings of Common Lisp.) This came up on day 1, minute 15 of the TSRJ workshop.

Re: [racket-dev] self-documenting feature

2010-07-19 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Do ask the person who asked whether Python has coverage now. -- Matthias Aspirin vs vitamins. Shriram _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [racket-dev] self-documenting feature

2010-07-19 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
This is a pointless exchange that misses the reason for its initiation. Attendee: Here's a nice feature that I find awfully useful. How do I get it in DrRacket? Us: Oh yeah? And can your beloved language do X? Shriram On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Matthias Felleisen matth...@ccs.neu.edu

[racket-dev] multiple key-press

2010-07-22 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
I just spoke with a room of high-school students studying Universe programming in a summer course at Brown. One major complaint was that they couldn't do multi-key-presses. For instance, they want to use WASD navigation combined with a right-side key for firing, and want to be able to fire and

Re: [racket-dev] multiple key-press

2010-07-22 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
As far as I know, at the lowest level there is no multiple key press event even in the OS. Yes, that's why I had scare-quotes in my message. If they want to do that, they should change their world to record the current key press state: I told them that. But the problem is that inversion of

[racket-dev] anachronism?

2010-07-24 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Empty file, Determine language from source, click Run, and the error message says Module Language: There must be a valid module in the definitions window. Try starting your program with #lang scheme and clicking ‘Run’. Surely that should say #lang racket instead?

Re: [racket-dev] Scribble

2010-07-26 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Yeah. I can make my window narrower, but the wider window helps for code. For now I'm just going to use two separate windows. Incidentally, I was surprised that the indenter got confused by Scribble. Should I be? Or perhaps the indenter doesn't claim to handle Scribble?

[racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-28 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
I've been vexed for a while about parenthetical syntax: I love it, appreciate what it offers, but also recognize that no amount of teaching or arguing alters how people perceive it. With the switch to Racket, and our continuing interest in user interface issues, I believe it is wise to consider

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-28 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
That does sound like the right level, in that this isn't a new language -- by design. I started out by trying to create a new syntax; then I realized I didn't need to; then that I didn't *want* to. By then I was locked into this file structure and didn't come up for air. I probably didn't peel

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-28 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
That did the trick -- thanks! On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Jay McCarthy jay.mccar...@gmail.com wrote: Look up the 'paren-shape stx property. Jay On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: That does sound like the right level, in that this isn't

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-28 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Jay McCarthy jay.mccar...@gmail.com wrote: At first I thought, how is this different than Honu? I don't know anything about Honu. As far as I can tell it's the great undead language of the Racket world. If Honu's already solved the problem and is being actively

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-28 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Is the audience HtDP students/teachers, professional programmers, hobbyists, someone else, or all of the above? People new to Racket, whether students or developers. And, if the audience includes HtDP students/teachers, would all the HtDP examples be revised to use P4P? It's way too early

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-28 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
People already struggle with nesting. Excessive parens make composition look much harder than it is. Ergo, my desire to remove all unnecessary parentheses. While agreeing on goals (integration w/ reader, etc.), I'm ultimately less interested in H-expressions than in the surface language. That

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-28 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Hi Ian,  - The whole distinction between operators and functions is a lie! Except it's not. I've run into educators who taught Scheme who thought this way, and the accounts of Scheme they gave were nonsense. I'm not saying this (nonsensical semantics) is a necessary consequence of thinking

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-29 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
That's only true if {} count as parens too. ¡  My suggestion was that they ONLY count as a begin statement. So what do I do in the case of expressions-in-function-position? Currently that is the one source of ambiguity in the language, so it is essential that I deal with that. Using {...} in

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-29 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
That's why internal defvar: exists. Most of the time, this is what I expect people will want and use, just like local variable definitions in other languages (except done right, w/out bizarro scope-lifting crud). Unusually for you, your remark seems vacuous. (P4P, and I quote:: This is purely

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-29 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
I disagree. I think parens are synecdoche. Shriram On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: FWIW, I think you're probably right that parens are actually code for I don't want to think so hard so while an alternative syntax may take away one excuse,

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-29 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
, it'd be great to get some feedback from others who try it out. On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: Okay, I just looked that up and I'm still not sure what you mean. :) Robby On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-30 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Seems to me that this point directly contradicts one of Shriram's design goals, namely showing that + is no more special than append or one of your own functions. Precisely. And a point that Emu makes very well in Bootstrap. Also, when is Honu getting indentation? It's clear that putting

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-30 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
deffun: d/dx(f) =  defvar: delta = 0.001  fun: (x) in    ((f((x + delta)) - f(x)) / delta) Just to be pedantic, I've changed the in to in:, because I want to have a consistent rule for all key*words*. Which can be understood easier than the prefix version but avoids all the negatives

Re: [racket-dev] P4P: A Syntax Proposal

2010-07-30 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Several things to reply to, but before I get to them, it's critical that I fix this misconception: 2. I doubt that we can figure out the usefulness of this new syntax on this mailing list. I am not trying to. I only posted it here because I figured having lots of eyes look at it would

Re: [racket-dev] Typed Racket and eq?

2010-08-02 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
I'm not talking about behavior, I'm talking about the intended semantics of observations in the language. Shriram On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt sa...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: If I export map (w/out

Re: [racket-dev] Typed Racket and importing polymorphic code

2010-08-02 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
: On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: Okay, so here's another scenario.  This time, TR will NOT just pass the value through, as it did map. a.rkt #lang racket (define foo 4

Re: [racket-dev] continuation weirdness

2010-08-12 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Understood, too. So, do you want WeScheme/Racket compatibility or WeScheme/DrRacket compatibility? In some sense, neither. We'd like to understand what is actually happening, so we can make an intelligent decision accordingly. Shriram _ For

[racket-dev] a pretty funny home page

2010-08-14 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Go to http://sites.google.com/site/viktorwinschel/ then click on Languages. _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [racket-dev] Racket stuffs

2010-08-17 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
I almost love the bumper sticker. Would you consider: - removing the http: garbage and replace it with just www.racket-lang.org? The ://.../ is too much visual clutter (though thanks for putting the slash at the end -- I hate it when people drop that). I know without the www. will work, but

[racket-dev] a small Racket success story

2010-08-17 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
As some of you know, we're building a semantics for Python in Racket. At my instigation, my students are doing everything in Typed Racket. However, when we got to generators, we ran up against a problem: we couldn't type the generator code (a bad interaction between mutation and occurrence

Re: [racket-dev] RFC: Coding Guidelines

2010-08-17 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
It IS a typo in the original. Matthias, please note. Frankly, John, I'm just not seeing what you're seeing. Maybe I read it too quickly, but at the speed at which I read it, it made perfect sense to me. Shriram On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Jay McCarthy jay.mccar...@gmail.com wrote: It

Re: [racket-dev] a small Racket success story

2010-08-17 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Why did you even have to rewrite it? 1. I didn't have access to their code. 2. We'd have had to take out the :'s, anyway. 'Everyone' (for some value of 'every') understands that this is how it works for the Y combinator. Good point. Shriram _

Re: [racket-dev] a small Racket success story

2010-08-17 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
If I want to move (define: (foo ([a : ...])) ...) into untyped code, I have to touch the source -- the code simply isn't valid syntax. _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [racket-dev] a small Racket success story

2010-08-18 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Yes, Matthias and I discussed this in the context of Typed Racket vs Typed JavaScript some months ago. TJS doesn't have to worry about this because of the single-threaded nature of the language. It seems to me this is a non-trivial problem for TR. Shriram

Re: [racket-dev] RFC: Coding Guidelines

2010-08-19 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Neither would the PLT Web server. I'm pretty certain Jay's own edits to it were not preceded by tests. Jay's changes to the PLAI language most certainly were not, because the current PLAI that is bundled with DrRacket is broken. (Sorry, Jay, but it's your prose.) Shriram On Thu, Aug 19, 2010

Re: [racket-dev] RFC: Coding Guidelines

2010-08-19 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
But most people wouldn't dream of touching the core Racket engine (for much the same reason). Are these guidelines for kernel hackers? Shriram On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Matthias Felleisen matth...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: There's code and there's code. I don't think slideshow is at the level

Re: [racket-dev] RFC: Coding Guidelines

2010-08-19 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
. I call this judgment inaccurate. On Aug 19, 2010, at 9:56 AM, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: Neither would the PLT Web server.  I'm pretty certain Jay's own edits to it were not preceded by tests. Jay's changes to the PLAI language most certainly were not, because the current PLAI

[racket-dev] hashes in ASL

2010-08-21 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Why does make-hash require one argument, rather than just taking zero like make-hash in Racket does? ASL is anyway a language with state, so it's perfectly meaningful to create an empty hash table and update it. Furthermore, many algorithms begin with an empty hash table. This argument strikes

[racket-dev] require sub-forms

2010-08-24 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Is there a way to say give me all the require sub-forms instead of having to enumerate them explicitly: (provide require only-in except-in prefix-in rename-in combine-in only-meta-in for-syntax for-template for-label for-meta) thereby missing some in future extensions of the base language?

Re: [racket-dev] require sub-forms

2010-08-24 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
On Aug 24, 2010, at 8:46 PM, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: Is there a way to say give me all the require sub-forms instead of having to enumerate them explicitly: (provide require only-in except-in prefix-in rename-in combine-in only-meta-in for-syntax for-template for-label

Re: [racket-dev] require sub-forms

2010-08-25 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Actually, I grepped through the source in the hope that that's precisely what I would find. It's when I didn't that I wrote the list. Shriram On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Jay McCarthy jay.mccar...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:18 PM, Eli Barzilay e...@barzilay.org wrote: On

Re: [racket-dev] hashes in ASL

2010-08-25 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Catching up ... What documentation are you looking at? http://docs.racket-lang.org/htdp-langs/advanced-prim-ops.html#(part._(lib._htdp-advanced..ss._lang)._.Hash_.Tables) If I type hash in the Help Desk, I get hash provided from racket/base, racket but not from ASL, in contrast to, say,

Re: [racket-dev] stepper UI question

2010-08-26 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
I like this. The Stepper becomes available as an aid to help you answer questions about how things came to be. It is indeed often the case that I lose the plot when stepping forward and hence go to the end and work backward; this could put you there right away. Yes, left-to-right scrolling

Re: [racket-dev] stepper UI question

2010-08-26 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Understood, and agreed. Thanks! Anyone else have comments/suggestions? I really like Robby's UI suggestion and am treating it as the lead contender. On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Shriram Krishnamurthi s

Re: [racket-dev] stepper UI question

2010-08-26 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 8:27 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: It seems to me it would be nice to contemplate a design that integrates test suites and the stepper (also in light of Mike's signatures). Robby On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Shriram Krishnamurthi s

Re: [racket-dev] stepper UI question

2010-08-27 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
I can think of many different ways to make the stepper-definition correspondence manifest.  As John said, I once suggested that the code should be reduced in-place, in the definition window. Shriram doesn't like that idea (but he has never bothered to say why.) That's right, I didn't.

[racket-dev] more space in GUI?

2010-08-27 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
The language chooser details panel looks like the attachment. It looks like there are five Output Styles and Fraction Style combined, rather than two distinct blocks of 3 and 2. A little spacing might make it a bit easier to read. attachment:

[racket-dev] relationship between define-struct and struct

2010-08-28 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
What is the relationship between define-struct and struct in Racket 5.0.1? By define-struct I mean the construct provided in ASL. In my custom language I have (define-struct tv (tag value)) (provide (struct-out tv)) and I get the error struct-out: no import for structure-type identifier in:

Re: [racket-dev] relationship between define-struct and struct

2010-08-28 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: This works fine in #lang racket, eg: #lang racket (define-struct s (a b)) (provide (struct-out s)) I think that ASL's define-struct is not racket's tho, so you'd probably have to read the docs carefully to

Re: [racket-dev] printing images in REPL

2010-08-28 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
.) Jay On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: What is the #lang magic that makes (get-image-from-web http://racket-lang.org/logo.png;) (instantiate (class ...) ...) show the image rather than just its constructor? Shriram

Re: [racket-dev] printing images in REPL

2010-08-28 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
... which was my original question. But thanks. On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: I guess you don't have the print handler set up right. On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: The value I was returning

[racket-dev] docs don't make sense

2010-09-02 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
http://docs.racket-lang.org/drracket/extending-drracket.html?q=teachpack#(part._teachpacks) - As an example, the following teachpack provides a lazy cons implementation. To test it, be sure to save it in a file named lazycons.ss. ... Then, in this program: ... the list all-nums is bound

[racket-dev] =?

2010-09-06 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Is there a reason =? isn't bound? I see (in Guillaume's logs) students actually getting errors because they tried to use it. _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [racket-dev] =?

2010-10-06 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
to, the reason. -Everett On 09/06/2010 11:31 AM, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: Is there a reason =? isn't bound?  I see (in Guillaume's logs) students actually getting errors because they tried to use it. _   For list-related administrative tasks

[racket-dev] shared and names

2010-10-19 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Is there any way for shared to check for whether a name was originally assigned to an LHS and, if so, to re-use it? If I define (define cities (shared ([PVD (make-city ... (list BOS ORD))] [BOS ...] [ORD ...]) PVD)) and it prints as (shared ((-0- (make-city Providence (list -3- -7-)))

[racket-dev] macros for sub-keywords

2010-10-20 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
We've brought this up on this list before -- forms like provide export their sub-keywords as macros. I believe this is why the following module compiles: #lang racket (require scribble/base) (define (defn t) (bold t)) (provide all-defined-out) Someone just spent 30 minutes wrestling with this.

Re: [racket-dev] OT: stump misunderstands Scheme?

2010-11-16 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Though also cycle back to us. I'm curious to hear what he has to say. Shriram On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:13 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: That expression at the end is somehow turning a procedure back into its quoted form. I have no idea if a Scheme that did that would

Re: [racket-dev] OT: stump misunderstands Scheme?

2010-11-16 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
You know, it's not inconceivable such a thing could happen if you had a PURELY syntactic *interpreter*. I remember when I got to Brown, they were using one of those weirdo Scheme interpreters, and had come to conclusions about the semantics of Scheme on the basis of its behavior. Things like you

Re: [racket-dev] OT: stump misunderstands Scheme?

2010-11-16 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Yep, that's exactly what was happening with the thing they ran at Brown. It was that system by that guy in Nice -- Erik Galliseo or something like that. Shriram On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Eli Barzilay

Re: [racket-dev] OT: stump misunderstands Scheme?

2010-11-16 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Good point. I never thought of it this way, but this is another argument in favor of dynamic scope. [tongue in cheek] Shriram On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt sa...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: You

Re: [racket-dev] OT: stump misunderstands Scheme?

2010-11-16 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
If you knew his background, you would not expect him to at all be a native speaker of (). (Further OT amusement: He, Stephanie, and Tim Sheard had a paper at last week's FOSER workshop entitled Language-Based Verification Will Change the World. Apparently, dependent types are both necessary and

Re: [racket-dev] Fwd: Q. about Directly Reflective paper

2010-11-17 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Someone should write to Danvy and ask him what the heck HE was doing sleeping on the job. How could a paper on a topic like this not get a proper Schemer as a reviewer and, if so, why didn't they, uh, read the paper? On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:41 AM, John Clements cleme...@brinckerhoff.org

Re: [racket-dev] spam planet bug reports

2010-12-11 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Effectively impossible. It's all in the domain. On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Matthias Felleisen matth...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: How difficult is it to implement one as a Planet lib that avoids tracking? On Dec 11, 2010, at 1:41 PM, Neil Van Dyke wrote: One issue to consider with

Re: [racket-dev] In support of em dash

2010-12-13 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
See http://bugs.racket-lang.org/query/?cmd=viewpr=11049 Shriram _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

[racket-dev] Church numerals in Scratch

2011-01-23 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
http://byob.berkeley.edu/Church.pdf _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [racket-dev] Church numerals in Scratch

2011-01-23 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
, 2011, at 8:28 PM, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: http://byob.berkeley.edu/Church.pdf _  For list-related administrative tasks:  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev _   For list-related

Re: [racket-dev] spam trac tickets

2011-03-23 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Will the syntax be infix or prefix? Will the semantics be fixednum or bignum? On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 7:00 AM, Matthias Felleisen matth...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: can you turn these captcha expressions into small arithmetic expressions that people know they need to compute and the spammers don't

Re: [racket-dev] exact nonnegative integers as sequences?

2011-04-18 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Which also raises an idea: now that TR is getting going, maybe we should have another step on this scripts-to-programs slope that is _lower_ than Racket. A language where we really only have one single datatype and everything just works on it, hashes being the obvious one (altho we probably

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-04 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Justin is right other than the Java part. Eli is right with the amendment of -1 for the suggestion that Java has good parts worth borrowing. (-: On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 7:51 PM, Eli Barzilay e...@barzilay.org wrote: 20 minutes ago, Justin Zamora wrote: On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 3:20 AM, D Herring

[racket-dev] known problem?

2011-05-17 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
In DrRacket 5.1 on Windows 7, hitting Alt-Space reproducibly produces this output: system-menu in frame%: unimplemented; args were '() === context === C:\Program Files (x86)\Racket\5.1\collects\racket\private\more-scheme.rkt:265:2: call-with-exception-handler C:\Program Files

Re: [racket-dev] type-case + typed racket yet?

2011-05-25 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
My understanding is that Eli has all these things for his PL course, right? So it's just a matter of making them more widely accessible? _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [racket-dev] Please help me to understand the two lines.

2011-05-30 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
I think even one sentence in the docs about the implications of these statements there would be a great idea. To someone who doesn't already know Scheme, the distinction between one value and the alternative is entirely unclear because they don't know what alternatives there are to one

Re: [racket-dev] guidelines on error messages -- please send feedback

2011-06-03 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu: Guillaume, Kathi and I have created a set of guidelines for writing error messages for *SL.  For consistency, these guidelines need to be used also by authors of libraries including Teachpacks, etc.  These guidelines are currently being applied

Re: [racket-dev] guidelines on error messages -- please send feedback

2011-06-03 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Where there is subtyping, same and different are not so clear. set-foo-bar!, foo-bar, and foo? are all different things at the level of mutator, selector, and predicate, but they are the same thing one level of abstraction up, where they are all functions or operators. So we are not advocating

Re: [racket-dev] guidelines on error messages -- please send feedback

2011-06-03 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
* Start the message with the name of the construct whose constraint is  being violated, followed by a colon.    Should give a quick example to clarify that `error' does that when    given a symbol.  I can see people following this blindly and    getting      - (error 'foo foo:

Re: [racket-dev] guidelines on error messages -- please send feedback

2011-06-03 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Oh, I'm all in favor of skipping identifier.  But using the word variable both for global variables (i.e. constants) and for function parameters strikes me as asking for confusion. Okay. We have no evidence one way or the other. It could be something we try to investigate. Given our

Re: [racket-dev] `take' argument order

2011-06-09 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
While having a copy of Shrunk and Whiteout thrown at us, no less. On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 6:43 AM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: Man, I recall a slightly different sentiment when you edit papers we co-author. :) Robby On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 8:50 PM, Matthias Felleisen

Re: [racket-dev] Fwd: a language example: brainfudge

2011-06-10 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Danny, the real reason to not mess with the name in the github repo name is that you WANT people who are looking for the original language to find your version of it. Shriram On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 7:06 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Danny

Re: [racket-dev] RacketCon lodging

2011-06-26 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Also, would any Boston people be willing to host out-of-town students? On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 12:36 PM, John Clements cleme...@brinckerhoff.org wrote: Are there any group-ish plans for RacketCon lodging? A campsite, say... :) John _  For

Re: [racket-dev] New error messages for *SL

2011-07-11 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Whoa, whoa there. They're there for a reason. I can't remember why, but I am pretty certain I have actually used such a function. Please don't go around chopping and changing the language a few days before the deadline. On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Guillaume Marceau gmarc...@gmail.com

Re: [racket-dev] New error messages for *SL

2011-07-12 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Precisely. On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 6:10 AM, Stephen Bloch sbl...@adelphi.edu wrote: On Jul 11, 2011, at 6:32 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: I'd much prefer eliminating such function calls. What harm do they do?  You can't call any library function with the wrong number of arguments, and you

Re: [racket-dev] Release Announcement for v5.1.2

2011-08-01 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Correct, no colors. On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt sa...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Eli Barzilay e...@barzilay.org wrote: * Simplified error messages in student languages, and use colors to  add visual information (see the teachpack manual for

Re: [racket-dev] Roogle?

2011-08-04 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
This idea is proposed roughly every 2-3 years for at least 30 years. I am not aware of anyone having made this idea fly. Shriram On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 12:13 AM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: I too tried it (ages ago) and ended up roughly where Eli is, but I didn't want to

Re: [racket-dev] Roogle?

2011-08-05 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Noel is absolutely right. We live in an era where Search Just Works. I do dozens of Google searches on most days. To go from there to Help Desk is an incredibly jarring experience. I have to load new instructions into my head: stick to one word, stem!, etc., that I haven't had to use on search

Re: [racket-dev] Roogle?

2011-08-05 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
I suspect your related work section missed a few. (-: On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 10:06 AM, Matthias Felleisen matth...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: It was my Diplomarbeit finished in 1983, so that makes it 28 years now. On Aug 5, 2011, at 12:17 AM, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: This idea is proposed

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-11 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
We also have an extensive audience on the users list and in our individual departments. So it would be easy to circulate a draft Web page (no fancy download or even formatting) that simply says, I'm guessing you are using a ... -- is this correct? and get lots of people to test (and get more

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-11 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Eli has asked us to wait. Please do so. He will reply in more detail when he gets to a proper computer. On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Guillaume Marceau gmarc...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Guillaume Marceau gmarc...@gmail.com wrote: Or we can trust that the Mozilla

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-12 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
(1) My hunch is that most of our downloaders -- especially technically unsavy (what's the right word here?) people -- download one and only one thing from us. And I suspect this is precisely why FF makes Windows the default (as Guillaume has shown us). Everyone who's not on Windows is acutely

Re: [racket-dev] Plot testing and feedback

2011-08-12 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Windows done; specs below in case someone w/ a significantly different machine wants to try it out too: Windows 7 Home Premium 1.2 GHz ULV Intel Core i5-430UM 4 GB DDR3 RAM SATA hard drive (5400 RPM) Output is here: http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/tmp/neil-toronto.tgz The package looks amazing,

Re: [racket-dev] Plot testing and feedback

2011-08-12 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
1. Racket's awesome cross-platform drawing library. Robby, is this what you were trying to sell Danny on to support in WeScheme? Shriram _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Doesn't the same problem exist for other tools, such as the Tracer? _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-13 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Thanks for this. I really like the rounded-edge Download buttons that most software systems now have. It seems odd to not have one for DrRacket. (I brought this up some years ago when these weren't quite so prevalent; now they're ubiquitous.) The grey of the Platform line makes it look like

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-13 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
On firefox.com I was surprised to see that what I had always assumed was an image was actually just CSS magic. Why not just copy it? What I did for that is to change the color when focus moves in. Yes, but the grey means I'm unlikely to move my cursor over it in the first place. Why grey it

Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab

2011-08-25 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Robby, this is something I've brought up before, too. It may be the default on the Mac, but it's certainly strange behavior on other platforms. I often find DrRacket disappearing on me and wondering why, then realizing...uh oh, close means something different. On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 1:30 PM,

Re: [racket-dev] Quick poll

2011-08-25 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
I'm confused. Why aren't $1, etc. also identifiers? (define $1 1) (define 50-cent (/ $1 2)) 50-cent ;; which, as you know, is pronounced fiffy 0.5 Or are you asking, Since I'm going to steal part of the identifier namespace anyway, would you prefer...? (If so I'd say just take both and

Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab

2011-08-25 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
)? On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: Yes, Robby, that would be great.   The default should be to close as little as possible, not as much as possible. On Windows 7: In Firefox, File | _C_ is indeed close *TAB*. In Chrome, there isn't even a close

[racket-dev] autosave of unsaved files, docs

2011-09-03 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
The docs at http://docs.racket-lang.org/drracket/drracket-files.html?q=crash#(part._drracket-autosave-files) are all about the autosave of files that have already been associated with disk. What about those that haven't? There is no reference to the Documents/mredauto.* files, which thankfully

Re: [racket-dev] Who page

2011-09-05 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Some bands make a racket. On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Noel Welsh noelwe...@gmail.com wrote: Band sounds more rock'n'roll, which is what we're aiming for. Party on, N. On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Paulo J. Matos pa...@matos-sorge.com wrote: On 03/09/11 19:01, Neil Van Dyke wrote:

[racket-dev] planet bug reporting interface

2011-09-06 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
[This is intentionally stream-of-consciousness...] The planet home page doesn't say anything about how to report bugs (the word bug really only appears in package descriptions, and error doesn't at all). The same is true of individual packages. So it's really not clear what one should do.

Re: [racket-dev] planet bug reporting interface

2011-09-06 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
think we'll change before planet 2.0. Robby On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 8:20 AM, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: [This is intentionally stream-of-consciousness...] The planet home page doesn't say anything about how to report bugs (the word bug really only appears in package

[racket-dev] planet versioning spec?

2011-09-06 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
In the planet documentation, I don't see a spec of the semantics of versioning. (If it's there, can someone please point me to it?) My understanding is this; can someone confirm or correct it? (The #lang part probably isn't relevant, but since that's how I need to use it, I'm being maximally

Re: [racket-dev] planet versioning spec?

2011-09-06 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Did you see section 1.4 of the planet docs? Yes, I did. It referred me to section 2 for the search order. The rest of it is about referring to explicit version numbers, whereas my message was about what happens if you leave off version numbers. I guess I could boil down my basic question to,

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