Re: Prioritize Modernizing The Specification

[Peter]

Yes, that's correct, there's still an IIOP exporter, although it doesn't 
support secure sockets, so it's probably best used locally.


Interestingly, when I was looking at the OSGi remote spec, it needs 
existing protocols in common at each endpoint.  This is a little 
different than Jini / River, where the protocol is part of the proxy, so 
the client needn't know anything about that.   I'm not looking at 
comparing approaches, or determining which is better, obviously the OSGi 
communication protocols could be used in a Jini / River proxy 
implementation.


At this time at least, services can be program language agnostic, but 
clients require the jvm, I guess it might be possible to do something on 
Microsofts CLR or Android as well.


Regards,

Peter.

On 5/02/2018 8:38 AM, Gerard Fulton wrote:

If I remember correctly the original releases of Federations and Jini both
contained aspects of the IIOP protocol move code in an implementation
language format. In today's world developers might use technologies IDL
implementations like FlatBuffers and gRPC.

https://google.github.io/flatbuffers/

https://grpc.io/

--Gerard

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 11:19 AM, Gerard Fulton  wrote:


I agree with the points made by Gregg about mobile code being one of
Jini's principal benefit and that there are multiple ways to implement the
mobile code concept. Hopefully we can refactor the Jini specifications to
contain narrowly scoped assumptions where the infrastructure, programming
model, and services as free as possible from implementation details.

--Gerard

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 6:25 PM, Gregg Wonderly  wrote:


The principal benefit of Jini is mobile code.  Everything else is just
network communications.  The primary problem is inexperienced developers or
web developers who just want to send a user interface around.  ServiceUI
makes that possible in Jini, but the lease services along with transaction
services and all natures of mobile code allow you to create the complete
UI/UX in one language with the ability to not write CSS, HTML and Java
Script all glued together.  Instead, you get an end to end, uniform
development and runtime environment.

The Web is full of mobile code in the form of JavaScript and other
dynamically loaded and bound pieces.  But it suffers from single threaded
user interfaces and the limitations of the web, in general, around network
restrictions.

Gregg

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 1, 2018, at 5:39 AM, Peter  wrote:

Hello Gerard,

Help is always welcomed, the Jini standards are quite old, so yes, I

think it's an area definitely in need of some love.  Documentation or
standards that explain the philosophies / design patterns River is based
on, I can see how that adds appeal.   I'll certiainly jump in and help with
reviews, there might be others interested in becoming involved as well.

Thanks,

Peter.


On 1/02/2018 12:09 PM, Gerard Fulton wrote:
Hi Guys,



I wanted to float an idea by list that has been in my head for several
years. The idea is to prioritize the modernization of the River
specification into a set of language a d transport agnostic

architectural

principles. River currently supports architectural concepts like

discovery,

events, proxies and more! In reality, both the implementation language

and

communication transport are minor details. For example a discovery

service

implementation could backed by DNS and exposed by a WebSockets
communications transport protocol. I my opinion the most important

part of

the DNS discovery service example is the application protocol which
potentially could be defined by a request/response model.



As a Java developer, I fear that the wider adoption and growth of

River are

being empeeded by our laser like focus on River's Java reference
implementation.





Feedback is a gift!



-Gerard Fulton

Re: Prioritize Modernizing The Specification

[Gerard Fulton]

I agree with the points made by Gregg about mobile code being one of Jini's
principal benefit and that there are multiple ways to implement the mobile
code concept. Hopefully we can refactor the Jini specifications to contain
narrowly scoped assumptions where the infrastructure, programming model,
and services as free as possible from implementation details.

--Gerard

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 6:25 PM, Gregg Wonderly  wrote:

> The principal benefit of Jini is mobile code.  Everything else is just
> network communications.  The primary problem is inexperienced developers or
> web developers who just want to send a user interface around.  ServiceUI
> makes that possible in Jini, but the lease services along with transaction
> services and all natures of mobile code allow you to create the complete
> UI/UX in one language with the ability to not write CSS, HTML and Java
> Script all glued together.  Instead, you get an end to end, uniform
> development and runtime environment.
>
> The Web is full of mobile code in the form of JavaScript and other
> dynamically loaded and bound pieces.  But it suffers from single threaded
> user interfaces and the limitations of the web, in general, around network
> restrictions.
>
> Gregg
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 1, 2018, at 5:39 AM, Peter  wrote:
> >
> > Hello Gerard,
> >
> > Help is always welcomed, the Jini standards are quite old, so yes, I
> think it's an area definitely in need of some love.  Documentation or
> standards that explain the philosophies / design patterns River is based
> on, I can see how that adds appeal.   I'll certiainly jump in and help with
> reviews, there might be others interested in becoming involved as well.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Peter.
> >
> >> On 1/02/2018 12:09 PM, Gerard Fulton wrote:
> >> Hi Guys,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I wanted to float an idea by list that has been in my head for several
> >> years. The idea is to prioritize the modernization of the River
> >> specification into a set of language a d transport agnostic
> architectural
> >> principles. River currently supports architectural concepts like
> discovery,
> >> events, proxies and more! In reality, both the implementation language
> and
> >> communication transport are minor details. For example a discovery
> service
> >> implementation could backed by DNS and exposed by a WebSockets
> >> communications transport protocol. I my opinion the most important part
> of
> >> the DNS discovery service example is the application protocol which
> >> potentially could be defined by a request/response model.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> As a Java developer, I fear that the wider adoption and growth of River
> are
> >> being empeeded by our laser like focus on River's Java reference
> >> implementation.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Feedback is a gift!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Gerard Fulton
> >>
> >
>

Re: Prioritize Modernizing The Specification

[Gregg Wonderly]

The principal benefit of Jini is mobile code.  Everything else is just network 
communications.  The primary problem is inexperienced developers or web 
developers who just want to send a user interface around.  ServiceUI makes that 
possible in Jini, but the lease services along with transaction services and 
all natures of mobile code allow you to create the complete UI/UX in one 
language with the ability to not write CSS, HTML and Java Script all glued 
together.  Instead, you get an end to end, uniform development and runtime 
environment.

The Web is full of mobile code in the form of JavaScript and other dynamically 
loaded and bound pieces.  But it suffers from single threaded user interfaces 
and the limitations of the web, in general, around network restrictions.

Gregg

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 1, 2018, at 5:39 AM, Peter  wrote:
> 
> Hello Gerard,
> 
> Help is always welcomed, the Jini standards are quite old, so yes, I think 
> it's an area definitely in need of some love.  Documentation or standards 
> that explain the philosophies / design patterns River is based on, I can see 
> how that adds appeal.   I'll certiainly jump in and help with reviews, there 
> might be others interested in becoming involved as well.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Peter.
> 
>> On 1/02/2018 12:09 PM, Gerard Fulton wrote:
>> Hi Guys,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I wanted to float an idea by list that has been in my head for several
>> years. The idea is to prioritize the modernization of the River
>> specification into a set of language a d transport agnostic architectural
>> principles. River currently supports architectural concepts like discovery,
>> events, proxies and more! In reality, both the implementation language and
>> communication transport are minor details. For example a discovery service
>> implementation could backed by DNS and exposed by a WebSockets
>> communications transport protocol. I my opinion the most important part of
>> the DNS discovery service example is the application protocol which
>> potentially could be defined by a request/response model.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> As a Java developer, I fear that the wider adoption and growth of River are
>> being empeeded by our laser like focus on River's Java reference
>> implementation.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Feedback is a gift!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Gerard Fulton
>> 
> 

Re: Prioritize Modernizing The Specification

[Peter]

Hello Gerard,

Help is always welcomed, the Jini standards are quite old, so yes, I 
think it's an area definitely in need of some love.  Documentation or 
standards that explain the philosophies / design patterns River is based 
on, I can see how that adds appeal.   I'll certiainly jump in and help 
with reviews, there might be others interested in becoming involved as well.


Thanks,

Peter.

On 1/02/2018 12:09 PM, Gerard Fulton wrote:

Hi Guys,



I wanted to float an idea by list that has been in my head for several
years. The idea is to prioritize the modernization of the River
specification into a set of language a d transport agnostic architectural
principles. River currently supports architectural concepts like discovery,
events, proxies and more! In reality, both the implementation language and
communication transport are minor details. For example a discovery service
implementation could backed by DNS and exposed by a WebSockets
communications transport protocol. I my opinion the most important part of
the DNS discovery service example is the application protocol which
potentially could be defined by a request/response model.



As a Java developer, I fear that the wider adoption and growth of River are
being empeeded by our laser like focus on River's Java reference
implementation.





Feedback is a gift!



-Gerard Fulton