Re: [DISCUSS]: asking about future of s2graph

2018-12-04 Thread Woonsan Ko



On 2018/11/05 20:39:48, Justin Mclean  wrote: 
> Hi,
> 
> Here is the original discussion [1] on the private list (over 2 years ago!). 
> I'm surprised these people have kept on with the project. While not as formal 
> as what some projects do (having a formal VOTE thread), it's up to each PPMC 
> to decide (and hopefully document) on how to appoint committers and it looks 
> like the consensus was to add the people discussed. I suggest you have a 
> discussion on the @private list and if there's no PPMC objections (seem 
> unlikely) just go ahead and add them as committers perhaps with an apology 
> for taking so long.

I was a bit surprised at the voting result announcement today because I 
couldn't find any "[VOTE] ..." messages for those two committer candidates.
Even if it [1] is a guideline and (P)PMC might want to have a different 
process, I don't see any good reasons to avoid an official voting call per 
candidate. I think it is better to follow the guideline for committer 
invitations.

Another thing is, if 2 years already passed and if we're concerned whether the 
candidate is still interested in or not, then I think a PPMC member should 
kindly contact them to ask if they're still willing to join by e-mail with 
CC'ing private@. If we get a positive answer form a candidate, it seems best to 
start a voting call for the candidate only.

Regards,

Woonsan

[1] https://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html

> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
> 
> 1. 
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1160237c8961daa72f45fd87b2b3c3b3185ba8bbb2c05f7982ea0d02@%3Cprivate.s2graph.apache.org%3E
> 
> 


Re: [DISCUSS]: asking about future of s2graph

2018-12-03 Thread Woonsan Ko
On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 9:38 PM DO YUNG YOON  wrote:
>
> Sorry for being late for reading this and Really Appreciate your opinion
> Woonsan.
>
> > Write blogs with compelling stories for potential active users who need
> to live on this technology, potentially with runnable GitHub project(s) for
> readers Stories with real use cases attract people as their lives can rely
> on those. It could make them active users at least.
>
> I would love to contribute to writing blogs, and runnable GitHub projects.
> I tried few times to share the user stories from Kakao, but I think we are
> open to any topics regarding S2Graph. Not sure how to start the blogs(I
> guess we need to discuss what topics we cover), but count me in.

Cool.
I think we need more diverse stories telling how people can take
advantage of the technology in their business, but at the same time it
also needs more diverse people to contribute to the stories. Virtuous
circle - that's what we need to make somehow perhaps at this point.
I will also give more thoughts while learning this technology and we
can later discuss it further...
Anyway the more people writing more stories, the better making it happen.

>
> > Make more noise through Kakao, Twitter, Facebook, ... I have been a
> non-social-web guy, but I have written blog articles for Apache Jackrabbit,
> etc. JMeter twitts often to broadcast community activities. It works.
>
> I am not an active user on the social things so not sure how to working on
> this. Maybe more social people can help us. we can try this when we have
> some activities to broadcast such as release, adding the cool feature,
> writing blogs so on.

I see S2Graph has an official Twitter channel at least. Hasn't been
updated since 2016 though. That could be a good start to revive.
In FreeMarker project, we officially have a step to announce a release
through its Twitter channel:
- https://freemarker.apache.org/committer-howto.html#making-releases
(See the step 22).

By the way, do we have any meetups including S2Graph topics anywhere?
In Seoul, for example?
If we do, it's really valuable to announce those events through
Twitter, etc. Meetups in local communities are really helpful to
spread the great technologies and get to know potential active
users/devs. Sometimes their creative questions from their work can
also help our project.

>
> > If necessary or useful, consider writing those in Korean for local
> communities, even in users@ mailing list. As long as you keep deciding
> together in devs@, it's no problem.
>
> Actually, didn't know this. Would be helpful if we need to explain in
> details for users who are not comfortable with English. Mixing up with the
> first suggestion, I am wondering writing blogs in Korean is ok, since I
> think it can help lowering the bar to local users.

Yes. The only requirement in the ASF regarding languages is that devs
need to use English in dev@ lists for transparent decision makings.
In users@ list, StackOverflow, or any other user supporting channels,
any language can be used. For example, if devs want to support users
who ask questions in Korean, devs should feel free to respond in
Korean.
If devs need to take some insights (issues, improvement ideas,
features, ...) from users@ to dev@ and discuss further, then they
should start discussing in English with (brief) explanations from the
insights. Then it's totally fine and it is more community-oriented
practices, IMO.

>
> > Try to leverage your company's marketing department's power. They might
> be eager to leverage you as an Apache community leaders for their reasons,
> too. It could be a win-win. For example, I always try to secure my tech
> session(s) about Apache Jackrabbit and related topics in my company's
> annual conference, making deals with the marketing dept.
>
> Not sure if my company can support this, but worth to ask so let me ask
> them.
>
> I hope we can further discuss how and what for blogs.

All right.

Thanks,

Woonsan

>
>
> On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 7:36 AM Woonsan Ko  wrote:
>
> > Hi Do Yung,
> >
> > Thank you very much for the clear explanation.
> > I've recently applied for a mentor for this project, so I'm reading past
> > messages to understand the context now. ;-)
> > Please see my comments inline.
> >
> > On 2018/10/31 06:56:15, DO YUNG YOON  wrote:
> > > It's been almost 3 years since s2graph has entered apache incubating. Our
> > > community has not been successful to reach more people so far and I think
> > > failing on growing community is the blocker issue for s2graph to
> > graduate.
> > >
> > > I want to open up the discussion about what we have to do for growing
> > > community, and eventually for graduation.
> > >
> > > In my opinion, there are many parts have been changed after incubation.
> > >
> > > Followings are notable improvements we have been working on.
> > >
> > > 1. Query Interface
> > >
> > > - Tinkerpop OLTP support
> > > - GraphQL support
> > >
> > > 2. Storage
> > >
> > > - Embedded 

Re: [DISCUSS]: asking about future of s2graph

2018-12-03 Thread DO YUNG YOON
Sorry for being late for reading this and Really Appreciate your opinion
Woonsan.

> Write blogs with compelling stories for potential active users who need
to live on this technology, potentially with runnable GitHub project(s) for
readers Stories with real use cases attract people as their lives can rely
on those. It could make them active users at least.

I would love to contribute to writing blogs, and runnable GitHub projects.
I tried few times to share the user stories from Kakao, but I think we are
open to any topics regarding S2Graph. Not sure how to start the blogs(I
guess we need to discuss what topics we cover), but count me in.

> Make more noise through Kakao, Twitter, Facebook, ... I have been a
non-social-web guy, but I have written blog articles for Apache Jackrabbit,
etc. JMeter twitts often to broadcast community activities. It works.

I am not an active user on the social things so not sure how to working on
this. Maybe more social people can help us. we can try this when we have
some activities to broadcast such as release, adding the cool feature,
writing blogs so on.

> If necessary or useful, consider writing those in Korean for local
communities, even in users@ mailing list. As long as you keep deciding
together in devs@, it's no problem.

Actually, didn't know this. Would be helpful if we need to explain in
details for users who are not comfortable with English. Mixing up with the
first suggestion, I am wondering writing blogs in Korean is ok, since I
think it can help lowering the bar to local users.

> Try to leverage your company's marketing department's power. They might
be eager to leverage you as an Apache community leaders for their reasons,
too. It could be a win-win. For example, I always try to secure my tech
session(s) about Apache Jackrabbit and related topics in my company's
annual conference, making deals with the marketing dept.

Not sure if my company can support this, but worth to ask so let me ask
them.

I hope we can further discuss how and what for blogs.


On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 7:36 AM Woonsan Ko  wrote:

> Hi Do Yung,
>
> Thank you very much for the clear explanation.
> I've recently applied for a mentor for this project, so I'm reading past
> messages to understand the context now. ;-)
> Please see my comments inline.
>
> On 2018/10/31 06:56:15, DO YUNG YOON  wrote:
> > It's been almost 3 years since s2graph has entered apache incubating. Our
> > community has not been successful to reach more people so far and I think
> > failing on growing community is the blocker issue for s2graph to
> graduate.
> >
> > I want to open up the discussion about what we have to do for growing
> > community, and eventually for graduation.
> >
> > In my opinion, there are many parts have been changed after incubation.
> >
> > Followings are notable improvements we have been working on.
> >
> > 1. Query Interface
> >
> > - Tinkerpop OLTP support
> > - GraphQL support
> >
> > 2. Storage
> >
> > - Embedded RocksDB
> > - JDBC Storage
> >
> > 3. Full-text search
> >
> > - ElasticSearch for search on vertex/edge property
> >
> > 4. OLAP
> >
> > - S2GraphSource: dump HFile then creates Spark dataframe.
> > - S2GraphSink: sink Spark dataframe to S2Graph.
> >
> > Even though the project has been improved, our community has not been
> > grown.
> >
> > There could be many reasons that our community is not growing(please list
> > them so we can discuss if we can resolve them), but in my humble opinion,
> > we have not even released above improvements since the last release.
> >
> > As far as I remember, the last time we discuss the release was a long
> time
> > ago(2017-09-08) at here
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/d0d8e264b7625128a6c2832723cf2ad555d169f9f277086ce69c3a7b@%3Cdev.s2graph.apache.org%3E
> > .
> >
> > Back then I was under pressure that we need to show that our community
> > growing after release, and since I was not sure, I avoid talking about
> the
> > release, and rather keep working on issues.
> >
> > Now I think it is much better to start by releasing it rather than only
> > just wondering how to grow the community.
> >
> > To grow the community, the very basic way I know is to keep improving the
> > project, releasing it, and advertise it, and get user feedback, and I
> think
> > we stuck to step 1 for too long time.
>
> My two cents:
>
> From my experiences, it's really about selling your technology to people.
> We might want to be focused on marketing a little bit more. Possible
> marketing activities for community growth are in my mind:
> - Write blogs with compelling stories for potential active users who need
> to live on this technology, potentially with runnable GitHub project(s) for
> readers
>   Stories with real use cases attract people as their lives can rely on
> those. It could make them active users at least.
> - Make more noise through Kakao, Twitter, Facebook, ...
>   I have been a non-social-web guy, but I have written blog articles for
> 

Re: [DISCUSS]: asking about future of s2graph

2018-11-21 Thread Woonsan Ko
Hi Do Yung,

Thank you very much for the clear explanation.
I've recently applied for a mentor for this project, so I'm reading past 
messages to understand the context now. ;-)
Please see my comments inline.

On 2018/10/31 06:56:15, DO YUNG YOON  wrote: 
> It's been almost 3 years since s2graph has entered apache incubating. Our
> community has not been successful to reach more people so far and I think
> failing on growing community is the blocker issue for s2graph to graduate.
> 
> I want to open up the discussion about what we have to do for growing
> community, and eventually for graduation.
> 
> In my opinion, there are many parts have been changed after incubation.
> 
> Followings are notable improvements we have been working on.
> 
> 1. Query Interface
> 
> - Tinkerpop OLTP support
> - GraphQL support
> 
> 2. Storage
> 
> - Embedded RocksDB
> - JDBC Storage
> 
> 3. Full-text search
> 
> - ElasticSearch for search on vertex/edge property
> 
> 4. OLAP
> 
> - S2GraphSource: dump HFile then creates Spark dataframe.
> - S2GraphSink: sink Spark dataframe to S2Graph.
> 
> Even though the project has been improved, our community has not been
> grown.
> 
> There could be many reasons that our community is not growing(please list
> them so we can discuss if we can resolve them), but in my humble opinion,
> we have not even released above improvements since the last release.
> 
> As far as I remember, the last time we discuss the release was a long time
> ago(2017-09-08) at here
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/d0d8e264b7625128a6c2832723cf2ad555d169f9f277086ce69c3a7b@%3Cdev.s2graph.apache.org%3E
> .
> 
> Back then I was under pressure that we need to show that our community
> growing after release, and since I was not sure, I avoid talking about the
> release, and rather keep working on issues.
> 
> Now I think it is much better to start by releasing it rather than only
> just wondering how to grow the community.
> 
> To grow the community, the very basic way I know is to keep improving the
> project, releasing it, and advertise it, and get user feedback, and I think
> we stuck to step 1 for too long time.

My two cents:

>From my experiences, it's really about selling your technology to people. We 
>might want to be focused on marketing a little bit more. Possible marketing 
>activities for community growth are in my mind:
- Write blogs with compelling stories for potential active users who need to 
live on this technology, potentially with runnable GitHub project(s) for readers
  Stories with real use cases attract people as their lives can rely on those. 
It could make them active users at least.
- Make more noise through Kakao, Twitter, Facebook, ...
  I have been a non-social-web guy, but I have written blog articles for Apache 
Jackrabbit, etc.
  JMeter twitts often to broadcast community activities. It works.
- If necessary or useful, consider writing those in Korean for local 
communities, even in users@ mailing list. As long as you keep deciding together 
in devs@, it's no problem.
- Try to leverage your company's marketing department's power. They might be 
eager to leverage you as an Apache community leaders for their reasons, too. It 
could be a win-win. For example, I always try to secure my tech session(s) 
about Apache Jackrabbit and related topics in my company's annual conference, 
making deals with the marketing dept. ;-)

> 
> After a few more releases, then if there is no one found s2graph useful,
> then I think we can happily retire from apache incubating, but I just don't
> feel like we did our best yet.

+1. I see many good things in this project with great potentials.

> 
> I am willing to pursue building community, and I think it is worth to try
> out a few more release until decide what's the next step.
> 
> I want to ask what others think. are there any others who are willing to
> get more involved?

I'm learning now. I hope to get involved more soon. :-)

Kind regards,

Woonsan

> 


Re: [DISCUSS]: asking about future of s2graph

2018-11-05 Thread Hwansung Yu
Hi,

Thank you for Justin.
I opened discussion on the @private.

https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/e2562a2eb8eb68e204d8a76ab1a5e3dc571fe8889cf0723d50d48750@%3Cprivate.s2graph.apache.org%3E

If there are no PPMC objections, is it the next step to let our mentor add
committers?

Thanks,
Hwansung

2018년 11월 6일 (화) 오전 5:39, Justin Mclean 님이 작성:

> Hi,
>
> Here is the original discussion [1] on the private list (over 2 years
> ago!). I'm surprised these people have kept on with the project. While not
> as formal as what some projects do (having a formal VOTE thread), it's up
> to each PPMC to decide (and hopefully document) on how to appoint
> committers and it looks like the consensus was to add the people discussed.
> I suggest you have a discussion on the @private list and if there's no PPMC
> objections (seem unlikely) just go ahead and add them as committers perhaps
> with an apology for taking so long.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1.
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1160237c8961daa72f45fd87b2b3c3b3185ba8bbb2c05f7982ea0d02@%3Cprivate.s2graph.apache.org%3E
>
>


Re: [DISCUSS]: asking about future of s2graph

2018-11-05 Thread Justin Mclean
Hi,

Here is the original discussion [1] on the private list (over 2 years ago!). 
I'm surprised these people have kept on with the project. While not as formal 
as what some projects do (having a formal VOTE thread), it's up to each PPMC to 
decide (and hopefully document) on how to appoint committers and it looks like 
the consensus was to add the people discussed. I suggest you have a discussion 
on the @private list and if there's no PPMC objections (seem unlikely) just go 
ahead and add them as committers perhaps with an apology for taking so long.

Thanks,
Justin

1. 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1160237c8961daa72f45fd87b2b3c3b3185ba8bbb2c05f7982ea0d02@%3Cprivate.s2graph.apache.org%3E



Re: [DISCUSS]: asking about future of s2graph

2018-11-05 Thread Justin Mclean
HI,

> I think there are two candidates for the conditions.

When discussion potential candidates it best to do so on the private list. What 
happens if you mention someone publicly and then not vote them in?

> In the previous mailing issue, there was a thread to add Hyunsung Jo as
> committer, but no action was taken after Voting.

Your mentors/PPMC need to add the person the the projects roster, help get 
their account set up, make sure they have signed an ICLA and welcome them to 
the community.

> We do not know how to do it because we have no experience in adding
> committers.

Your mentors can help here.

Thanks,
Justin


Re: [DISCUSS]: asking about future of s2graph

2018-11-03 Thread Hwansung Yu
Hi,

I totally agree with Justin's opinion.

I think it is most important to add a new committer and ppmc to grow our
community.

I think there are two candidates for the conditions.
They are Jongwook Kim and Hyunsung Jo.
They were involved in several issues.
In particular, Hyunsung Jo worked for the community building at the Apache
conference.

In the previous mailing issue, there was a thread to add Hyunsung Jo as
committer, but no action was taken after Voting.

We do not know how to do it because we have no experience in adding
commiters.

Justin, can you tell us how we can add Committer or PPMC?

Thanks.

2018년 11월 4일 (일) 오전 8:14, Justin Mclean 님이 작성:

> HI,
>
> I think the biggest issue you face is adding new committers and PPMCs
> members. I find it hard to believe that in the 3 years of incubation that
> your PPMC haven't found a single candidate to make a committer or PPMC
> member. Without growing your community in that way it's unlikely you would
> graduate from the incubator even if everything else was in order.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>


Re: [DISCUSS]: asking about future of s2graph

2018-11-03 Thread Justin Mclean
HI,

I think the biggest issue you face is adding new committers and PPMCs members. 
I find it hard to believe that in the 3 years of incubation that your PPMC 
haven't found a single candidate to make a committer or PPMC member. Without 
growing your community in that way it's unlikely you would graduate from the 
incubator even if everything else was in order.

Thanks,
Justin


Re: [DISCUSS]: asking about future of s2graph

2018-11-02 Thread DO YUNG YOON
Thanks for the comments deawon.

I think providing contribution guide, documentation on the dev environment
and documentation on usage are necessary, and feel like we do not have
these now.

Also, I suggest provide release documentation so any other committer like
you can easily get involved on release cycle. I guess I can work on the
release documentation and ask feedback, targeting the next release which I
hope to happen soon.

Do you think providing more documentation is the top priority for community
building?

There are a few times that someone asked about S2Graph and then they did
not get involved, and I think we should learn from our previous failure to
attract people to our community.

Is S2Graph hard to play around since the lack of documentation or is
s2graph not doing well on what it suppose to provide?

If we think former is the main reason, I think providing documentation on
getting started not only for users but also developers is our top priority.



On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 6:32 PM daewon  wrote:

> I agree with many of your comments.
>
> For a community building, what you can do right now is just to listen to
> external requests while constantly improving functionality.
>
> In order to improve the accessibility of the S2Graph project, I think it
> would be better to create a development environment, a contribution guide,
> etc., in addition to documenting how to use it.
>
> We hope that the S2Graph will continue to be developed and successfully
> graduated from the incubation.
>
> 2018년 10월 31일 (수) 오후 3:56, DO YUNG YOON 님이 작성:
>
> > It's been almost 3 years since s2graph has entered apache incubating. Our
> > community has not been successful to reach more people so far and I think
> > failing on growing community is the blocker issue for s2graph to
> graduate.
> >
> > I want to open up the discussion about what we have to do for growing
> > community, and eventually for graduation.
> >
> > In my opinion, there are many parts have been changed after incubation.
> >
> > Followings are notable improvements we have been working on.
> >
> > 1. Query Interface
> >
> > - Tinkerpop OLTP support
> > - GraphQL support
> >
> > 2. Storage
> >
> > - Embedded RocksDB
> > - JDBC Storage
> >
> > 3. Full-text search
> >
> > - ElasticSearch for search on vertex/edge property
> >
> > 4. OLAP
> >
> > - S2GraphSource: dump HFile then creates Spark dataframe.
> > - S2GraphSink: sink Spark dataframe to S2Graph.
> >
> > Even though the project has been improved, our community has not been
> > grown.
> >
> > There could be many reasons that our community is not growing(please list
> > them so we can discuss if we can resolve them), but in my humble opinion,
> > we have not even released above improvements since the last release.
> >
> > As far as I remember, the last time we discuss the release was a long
> time
> > ago(2017-09-08) at here
> >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/d0d8e264b7625128a6c2832723cf2ad555d169f9f277086ce69c3a7b@%3Cdev.s2graph.apache.org%3E
> > .
> >
> > Back then I was under pressure that we need to show that our community
> > growing after release, and since I was not sure, I avoid talking about
> the
> > release, and rather keep working on issues.
> >
> > Now I think it is much better to start by releasing it rather than only
> > just wondering how to grow the community.
> >
> > To grow the community, the very basic way I know is to keep improving the
> > project, releasing it, and advertise it, and get user feedback, and I
> think
> > we stuck to step 1 for too long time.
> >
> > After a few more releases, then if there is no one found s2graph useful,
> > then I think we can happily retire from apache incubating, but I just
> don't
> > feel like we did our best yet.
> >
> > I am willing to pursue building community, and I think it is worth to try
> > out a few more release until decide what's the next step.
> >
> > I want to ask what others think. are there any others who are willing to
> > get more involved?
> >
>


Re: [DISCUSS]: asking about future of s2graph

2018-10-31 Thread daewon
I agree with many of your comments.

For a community building, what you can do right now is just to listen to
external requests while constantly improving functionality.

In order to improve the accessibility of the S2Graph project, I think it
would be better to create a development environment, a contribution guide,
etc., in addition to documenting how to use it.

We hope that the S2Graph will continue to be developed and successfully
graduated from the incubation.

2018년 10월 31일 (수) 오후 3:56, DO YUNG YOON 님이 작성:

> It's been almost 3 years since s2graph has entered apache incubating. Our
> community has not been successful to reach more people so far and I think
> failing on growing community is the blocker issue for s2graph to graduate.
>
> I want to open up the discussion about what we have to do for growing
> community, and eventually for graduation.
>
> In my opinion, there are many parts have been changed after incubation.
>
> Followings are notable improvements we have been working on.
>
> 1. Query Interface
>
> - Tinkerpop OLTP support
> - GraphQL support
>
> 2. Storage
>
> - Embedded RocksDB
> - JDBC Storage
>
> 3. Full-text search
>
> - ElasticSearch for search on vertex/edge property
>
> 4. OLAP
>
> - S2GraphSource: dump HFile then creates Spark dataframe.
> - S2GraphSink: sink Spark dataframe to S2Graph.
>
> Even though the project has been improved, our community has not been
> grown.
>
> There could be many reasons that our community is not growing(please list
> them so we can discuss if we can resolve them), but in my humble opinion,
> we have not even released above improvements since the last release.
>
> As far as I remember, the last time we discuss the release was a long time
> ago(2017-09-08) at here
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/d0d8e264b7625128a6c2832723cf2ad555d169f9f277086ce69c3a7b@%3Cdev.s2graph.apache.org%3E
> .
>
> Back then I was under pressure that we need to show that our community
> growing after release, and since I was not sure, I avoid talking about the
> release, and rather keep working on issues.
>
> Now I think it is much better to start by releasing it rather than only
> just wondering how to grow the community.
>
> To grow the community, the very basic way I know is to keep improving the
> project, releasing it, and advertise it, and get user feedback, and I think
> we stuck to step 1 for too long time.
>
> After a few more releases, then if there is no one found s2graph useful,
> then I think we can happily retire from apache incubating, but I just don't
> feel like we did our best yet.
>
> I am willing to pursue building community, and I think it is worth to try
> out a few more release until decide what's the next step.
>
> I want to ask what others think. are there any others who are willing to
> get more involved?
>