Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-25 Thread Liviu Nicoara
On 09/24/12 22:28, Martin Sebor wrote: On 09/20/2012 06:46 PM, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:39 PM, Liviu Nicoaranikko...@hates.ms wrote: I have not created this requirement out of thin air. STDCXX development has functioned in this manner for as long as I remember. If it

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-25 Thread Liviu Nicoara
On 09/24/12 23:50, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Martin Sebor mse...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW, there are race conditions in stdcxx. Some of them are by design and benign on the systems the library runs on (although I acknowledge that some others may be bugs). One such

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-25 Thread Liviu Nicoara
On 9/24/12 11:06 PM, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 7:48 PM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: Stefan, was it your intention to completely eliminate all the race conditions with this last patch? Is this what the tools showed in your environment?

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-24 Thread Liviu Nicoara
On 9/24/12 12:06 AM, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 9:10 AM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: On 09/21/12 05:13, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 2:28 AM, Travis Vitek travis.vi...@roguewave.com wrote: I have provided this list with test results showing that

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-24 Thread Martin Sebor
FWIW, there are race conditions in stdcxx. Some of them are by design and benign on the systems the library runs on (although I acknowledge that some others may be bugs). One such benign date race is: timeT1 T2 0x = N 1x = N read x where x is a scalar that can be

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-24 Thread Martin Sebor
On 09/20/2012 06:46 PM, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:39 PM, Liviu Nicoaranikko...@hates.ms wrote: I have not created this requirement out of thin air. STDCXX development has functioned in this manner for as long as I remember. If it does not suit you, that's fine. That

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-24 Thread Stefan Teleman
On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 7:48 PM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: Stefan, was it your intention to completely eliminate all the race conditions with this last patch? Is this what the tools showed in your environment?

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-24 Thread Stefan Teleman
On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Martin Sebor mse...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW, there are race conditions in stdcxx. Some of them are by design and benign on the systems the library runs on (although I acknowledge that some others may be bugs). One such benign date race is: timeT1 T2

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-23 Thread Stefan Teleman
On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 9:10 AM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: On 09/21/12 05:13, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 2:28 AM, Travis Vitek travis.vi...@roguewave.com wrote: I have provided this list with test results showing that my patch *does* fix the race condition

RE: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-21 Thread Travis Vitek
-Original Message- From: Stefan Teleman Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 6:00 PM To: dev@stdcxx.apache.org Cc: Liviu Nicoara Subject: Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:44 PM, C. Bergström cbergst...@pathscale.com wrote: I do have a program which

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-21 Thread Stefan Teleman
On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 2:28 AM, Travis Vitek travis.vi...@roguewave.com wrote: You called out premature optimization as evil, in a discussion about patches you provided that include optimizations and no testcase showing that your changes are not premature and provide measureable benefit.

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-21 Thread Liviu Nicoara
On 09/21/12 05:13, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 2:28 AM, Travis Vitek travis.vi...@roguewave.com wrote: I have provided this list with test results showing that my patch *does* fix the race condition problems identified by all the tools at my disposal. I'm willing to bet you

RE: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-21 Thread Travis Vitek
-Original Message- From: Stefan Teleman [mailto:stefan.tele...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 2:14 AM To: dev@stdcxx.apache.org Subject: Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 2:28 AM, Travis Vitek travis.vi...@roguewave.com wrote: You called out

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Liviu Nicoara
Thanks for the feed-back. Please see below. On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:02 PM, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: I think you are referring to `live' cache objects and the code which specifically adjusts the size of the buffer according

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Stefan Teleman
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: But have you measured the amount of memory consumed by all STDCXX locale data loaded in one process? How much absolute time is spent in resizing the locale and facet buffers? What is the gain in space and time performance

RE: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Travis Vitek
-Original Message- From: Stefan Teleman [mailto:stefan.tele...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:11 AM To: dev@stdcxx.apache.org Subject: Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: But have you measured

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Liviu Nicoara
On 09/20/12 13:11, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: But have you measured the amount of memory consumed by all STDCXX locale data loaded in one process? How much absolute time is spent in resizing the locale and facet buffers? What

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Stefan Teleman
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Travis Vitek travis.vi...@roguewave.com wrote: I'll let you in on a little secret: once you call setlocale(3C) and localeconv(3C), the Standard C Library doesn't release its own locale handles until process termination. So you might think you save a lot of

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Liviu Nicoara
On Sep 20, 2012, at 5:31 PM, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: To answer your question [...]: yes, the MT failures occur on SPARC as well, on both SPARCV8 and SPARCV9, and the race conditions are reported on *ALL* plaforms

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Wojciech Meyer
Hi, My perceptions is by reading through the whole thread - we should not trust 100% external tools to asses the safety of the code. I don't think there exist an algorithm that produces no false positives. That's said I admire Stefan's approach, but we should ask the question are we MT safe

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Stefan Teleman
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 7:34 PM, Wojciech Meyer wojciech.me...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, My perceptions is by reading through the whole thread - we should not trust 100% external tools to asses the safety of the code. I don't think there exist an algorithm that produces no false positives.

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Liviu Nicoara
On Sep 20, 2012, at 7:37 PM, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 7:34 PM, Wojciech Meyer wojciech.me...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, My perceptions is by reading through the whole thread - we should not trust 100% external tools to asses the safety of the code. I don't think there

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Stefan Teleman
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: Stefan, I want to be clear. You are talking about a patch identical in nature to the one I have attached now. Just want to be 100% sure we are talking about the same thing. This one still produces failures (crashes,

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Liviu Nicoara
On Sep 20, 2012, at 5:23 PM, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Travis Vitek travis.vi...@roguewave.com wrote: I'll let you in on a little secret: once you call setlocale(3C) and localeconv(3C), the Standard C Library doesn't release its own locale handles until

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Liviu Nicoara
On Sep 20, 2012, at 7:45 PM, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: Stefan, I want to be clear. You are talking about a patch identical in nature to the one I have attached now. Just want to be 100% sure we are talking about the same

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Liviu Nicoara
On Sep 20, 2012, at 7:49 PM, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: The only gold currency that anyone in here accepts without reservations are failing test cases. I believe I have seen some exceptions to the golden rule in my RW

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Stefan Teleman
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: On Sep 20, 2012, at 7:49 PM, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: The only gold currency that anyone in here accepts without reservations are failing test cases.

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Wojciech Meyer
Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms writes: On Sep 20, 2012, at 5:23 PM, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Travis Vitek travis.vi...@roguewave.com wrote: I'll let you in on a little secret: once you call setlocale(3C) and localeconv(3C), the Standard C Library doesn't

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Stefan Teleman
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Wojciech Meyer wojciech.me...@googlemail.com wrote: Therefore please use tools but be a bit reserved for the results. I *am* being cautiously skeptical about the results. That's why I am using 4 [ FOUR ] different thread analyzers, on three different operating

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Liviu Nicoara
On Sep 20, 2012, at 8:02 PM, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: On Sep 20, 2012, at 7:49 PM, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: The only gold currency that anyone in

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Stefan Teleman
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: That is not it, and you did not. Please pay attention: given your assertion that a race condition is a defect that causes an abnormal execution of the program during which the program sees abnormal, incorrect states

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread C. Bergström
On 09/21/12 07:39 AM, Liviu Nicoara wrote: Now, in all honesty, it is not too hard to do that. Once you can satisfactorily explain to yourself what is wrong in the program, the creation of a test case is trivial. Some multi-threading bugs are insidious and hard to reproduce, but even then

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Stefan Teleman
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:39 PM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: I have not created this requirement out of thin air. STDCXX development has functioned in this manner for as long as I remember. If it does not suit you, that's fine. That would explain why these bugs are present in the

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-20 Thread Liviu Nicoara
On Sep 20, 2012, at 8:59 PM, Stefan Teleman wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:44 PM, C. Bergström cbergst...@pathscale.com wrote: fencepost comment - The results are based on tools and I don't think he has a large program which actually triggers the conditions. (Creating one may take

Re: STDCXX-1056 : numpunct fix

2012-09-19 Thread Stefan Teleman
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Liviu Nicoara nikko...@hates.ms wrote: I think you are referring to `live' cache objects and the code which specifically adjusts the size of the buffer according to the number of `live' locales and/or facets in it. In that respect I would not call that