Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Wed, Jun 09, 2021 at 07:53:04PM +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > On Wed, Jun 09, 2021 at 10:29:50AM -0500, Justin Forbes wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 10:19 AM David Duncan wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 4:13 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> On Wed,

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On 6/9/21 15:53, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: On Wed, Jun 09, 2021 at 10:29:50AM -0500, Justin Forbes wrote: On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 10:19 AM David Duncan wrote: On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 4:13 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: On Wed, Jun 09, 2021 at 06:52:40AM -, David Duncan wrote

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Wed, 2021-06-09 at 19:53 +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > Yeah, I think we have to accept that there won't be any kernel support > in RHEL in a timeframe that matters for Fedora, and the RHEL host will > not be > able to mount the images natively. So the questions for me are: > 1. I t

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Wed, Jun 09, 2021 at 10:29:50AM -0500, Justin Forbes wrote: > On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 10:19 AM David Duncan wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 4:13 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > > wrote: > >> > >> On Wed, Jun 09, 2021 at 06:52:40AM -, David Duncan wrote: > >> > Bumping this for technical d

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 10:19 AM David Duncan wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 4:13 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jun 09, 2021 at 06:52:40AM -, David Duncan wrote: >> > Bumping this for technical discussion. We are planning to put this in >> > action if there a

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 4:13 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > On Wed, Jun 09, 2021 at 06:52:40AM -, David Duncan wrote: > > Bumping this for technical discussion. We are planning to put this in > action if there are no technical objections. > > Please wait until the FESCo has approved the

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Wed, Jun 09, 2021 at 06:52:40AM -, David Duncan wrote: > Bumping this for technical discussion. We are planning to put this in action > if there are no technical objections. Please wait until the FESCo has approved the Change. Zbyszek ___ devel

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

Bumping this for technical discussion. We are planning to put this in action if there are no technical objections. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

> Am 03.06.2021 um 15:35 schrieb Dusty Mabe : > > > > On 6/2/21 5:28 AM, Peter Boy wrote: >> >> >> >> very nicely put. According to Matthew and others cloud wg did virtually not >> exist for more than a year, no meetings, silence on mailing list beyond >> bi-weekly announcement of a „stan

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Thu, Jun 03, 2021 at 09:35:24AM -0400, Dusty Mabe wrote: > Bear with me and try to assume good faith. When this was first brought up > in the cloud WG meeting recently I did ask of the implications on our > pending talks to merge with Server. I thought it had been discussed in the > Server WG fi

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On 6/2/21 5:28 AM, Peter Boy wrote: > > > > very nicely put. According to Matthew and others cloud wg did virtually not > exist for more than a year, no meetings, silence on mailing list beyond > bi-weekly announcement of a „standing“ meeting nobody attended to, there was > discussion to „k

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

> Am 02.06.2021 um 03:09 schrieb Michel Alexandre Salim via devel > : > > On Mon, 2021-05-31 at 15:19 +0200, Peter Boy wrote: >> >> >>> Am 28.05.2021 um 23:08 schrieb Chris Murphy < >>> li...@colorremedies.com>: >>> …… >>> >>> All I mean by this is to push back on the idea that the p

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Mon, 2021-05-31 at 15:19 +0200, Peter Boy wrote: > > > > Am 28.05.2021 um 23:08 schrieb Chris Murphy < > > li...@colorremedies.com>: > > > > > …… > > > > All I mean by this is to push back on the idea that the proposal > > for > > Cloud translates into delaying the decision for Server by 5

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

> Am 28.05.2021 um 23:08 schrieb Chris Murphy : > >> …… > > All I mean by this is to push back on the idea that the proposal for > Cloud translates into delaying the decision for Server by 5 or 10 > years. Not that Server folks should escalate their discussion. What I originally meant was the

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 7:04 AM Colin Walters wrote: > > On this topic though, if Fedora CoreOS didn't exist, this proposal to change > Cloud would be significantly more consequential. The defaults *really > matter* here in particular, even more than Workstation. But, I think because > CoreO

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 1:45 AM Peter Boy wrote: > > Am 27.05.2021 um 00:59 schrieb Chris Murphy : > > Whereupon Server SIG/WG perform an evaluation of Btrfs for their use > > cases, and decide Btrfs should be the default in a compelling manner, > > FESCo will approve it. And this plausibly coul

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 4:37 PM Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: > > On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 9:04 AM Colin Walters wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, May 28, 2021, at 5:43 AM, Neal Gompa wrote: > > > > > > Part of the point of the different working groups was to handle the > > > different use-cases *well* at

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 9:04 AM Colin Walters wrote: > > > > On Fri, May 28, 2021, at 5:43 AM, Neal Gompa wrote: > > > > Part of the point of the different working groups was to handle the > > different use-cases *well* at their own pace. The CoreOS Working Group > > is *explicitly* excluded and f

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

> Am 28.05.2021 um 11:43 schrieb Neal Gompa : > > On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 3:45 AM Peter Boy wrote: >> >> Nevertheless, coordination and cooperation is at least very desirable (in >> fact, indispensable). And is is not just about who is paying the bills. >> Beyond this crude economic dimensio

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Fri, May 28, 2021, at 5:43 AM, Neal Gompa wrote: > > Part of the point of the different working groups was to handle the > different use-cases *well* at their own pace. The CoreOS Working Group > is *explicitly* excluded and frankly unlikely to ever switch because > Colin believes I am not C

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 3:45 AM Peter Boy wrote: > > > > > Am 27.05.2021 um 00:59 schrieb Chris Murphy : > > > > On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 5:30 AM Peter Boy wrote: > > ... > > Whereupon Server SIG/WG perform an evaluation of Btrfs for their use > > cases, and decide Btrfs should be the default in a

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

> Am 27.05.2021 um 00:59 schrieb Chris Murphy : > > On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 5:30 AM Peter Boy wrote: > ... > Whereupon Server SIG/WG perform an evaluation of Btrfs for their use > cases, and decide Btrfs should be the default in a compelling manner, > FESCo will approve it. And this plausibly c

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Wed, 2021-05-26 at 16:59 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: > On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 5:30 AM Peter Boy wrote: > > > Am 26.05.2021 um 08:51 schrieb Chris Murphy < > > > li...@colorremedies.com>: > > > What controversial discussion is being referenced? Currently before > > > us > > > is a proposal to sw

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 12:04 PM Ben Cotton wrote: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FedoraCloudBtrfsByDefault > > == Summary == > > For cloud installs of Fedora, we want to provide advanced file system > features to users in a transparent fashion. Thus, we are changing the > file system

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 5:30 AM Peter Boy wrote: > > Am 26.05.2021 um 08:51 schrieb Chris Murphy : > > What controversial discussion is being referenced? Currently before us > > is a proposal to switch to Btrfs for Cloud edition. > > I’m quite sure you know that discussion. Part to it was Red Hat’

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

> Am 26.05.2021 um 08:51 schrieb Chris Murphy : > > On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 5:52 PM Peter Boy wrote: >> >> >>> Am 25.05.2021 um 23:20 schrieb Neal Gompa : >>> Cloud images never had such separation. It was always one big ext4 >>> partition. With Btrfs, we can introduce subvolumes so user data

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 5:52 PM Peter Boy wrote: > > > > Am 25.05.2021 um 23:20 schrieb Neal Gompa : > > Cloud images never had such separation. It was always one big ext4 > > partition. With Btrfs, we can introduce subvolumes so user data can be > > trivially managed separately without losing the

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

> Am 25.05.2021 um 23:33 schrieb przemek klosowski via devel > : > > > > On 5/25/21 5:04 PM, Peter Boy wrote: >>> So the same model works totally fine for both desktop and server. >>> >> I myself lack the exact technical knowledge, but (all?) server and file >> system experts I hear consider

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

> Am 25.05.2021 um 23:20 schrieb Neal Gompa : > > On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 5:05 PM Peter Boy wrote: >> >> >> As to my knowledge it’s not about space (there is no difference in this >> respect), it's about strikt separation of system and user data, containment >> in the event of a file system

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On 5/25/21 5:04 PM, Peter Boy wrote: So the same model works totally fine for both desktop and server. I myself lack the exact technical knowledge, but (all?) server and file system experts I hear consider just that a gross misconception. I think you and Neal talk about two different things.

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 5:05 PM Peter Boy wrote: > > > > Am 25.05.2021 um 21:56 schrieb Neal Gompa : > > > > On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 3:52 PM Peter Boy wrote: > >> > >> > >> Am 25.05.2021 um 19:03 schrieb Ben Cotton : > >> > >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FedoraCloudBtrfsByDefault > >>

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

> Am 25.05.2021 um 21:56 schrieb Neal Gompa : > > On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 3:52 PM Peter Boy wrote: >> >> >> Am 25.05.2021 um 19:03 schrieb Ben Cotton : >> >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FedoraCloudBtrfsByDefault >> >> This includes the same subvolume layout that is used on the des

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 3:52 PM Peter Boy wrote: > > > Am 25.05.2021 um 19:03 schrieb Ben Cotton : > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FedoraCloudBtrfsByDefault > > == Summary == > > For cloud installs of Fedora, we want to provide advanced file system > features to users in a transparent f

Re: F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

> > Am 25.05.2021 um 19:03 schrieb Ben Cotton >: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FedoraCloudBtrfsByDefault > > == Summary == > > For cloud installs of Fedora, we want to provide advanced file system > features to users in a transparent fashion. Thus, we ar

F35 Change: Make btrfs the default file system for Fedora Cloud (System-Wide Change proposal)

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FedoraCloudBtrfsByDefault == Summary == For cloud installs of Fedora, we want to provide advanced file system features to users in a transparent fashion. Thus, we are changing the file system for the Cloud Edition to Btrfs so we can leverage its features and