> Am 17.01.2022 um 05:16 schrieb Chris Murphy :
>
> On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 3:59 PM Peter Boy wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Am 14.01.2022 um 23:51 schrieb Fabio Valentini :
>>>
>>>
>>> Wait, I thought this change was about making the path consistent
>>> within Fedora variants?
>>
>> The question
> Am 17.01.2022 um 05:17 schrieb Chris Murphy :
>
> On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 4:34 PM Peter Boy wrote:
>>
>>
>> @Neal, I remember a Suse employee made once (about a year ago) a proposal to
>> slightly modify FHS to better separate distro specific from local specific
>> content, especially in
On Sunday, January 16, 2022 11:16:57 PM EST Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 3:59 PM Peter Boy wrote:
> > > Am 14.01.2022 um 23:51 schrieb Fabio Valentini :
> > >
> > >
> > > Wait, I thought this change was about making the path consistent
> > > within Fedora variants?
> >
> > The
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 9:36 PM Chris Adams wrote:
>
> Once upon a time, Chris Murphy said:
> > If you value Fedora having a snapshot and rollback scheme of some
> > kind, it's useful and beneficial. If you don't, then the change is
> > neutral because it has not a single technical downside
Once upon a time, Chris Murphy said:
> If you value Fedora having a snapshot and rollback scheme of some
> kind, it's useful and beneficial. If you don't, then the change is
> neutral because it has not a single technical downside presented so
> far - just emotive ones.
It's only beneficial for
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 4:34 PM Peter Boy wrote:
>
>
>
> > Am 17.01.2022 um 00:09 schrieb Neal Gompa :
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 5:51 PM Fabio Valentini
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> ….
> >
> > openSUSE originally did the move because standard openSUSE has a
> > snapshot+rollback scheme and
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 3:59 PM Peter Boy wrote:
>
>
>
> > Am 14.01.2022 um 23:51 schrieb Fabio Valentini :
> >
> >
> > Wait, I thought this change was about making the path consistent
> > within Fedora variants?
>
> The question still is whether this is actually useful and beneficial.
If you
Once upon a time, Neal Gompa said:
> On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 6:47 PM Chris Adams wrote:
> > Once upon a time, Neal Gompa said:
> > > It benefits LVM-based OS snapshotting equally well. However, the
> > > tooling for LVM snapshots are under-developed, so it's not used so
> > > much for this.
> >
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 6:47 PM Chris Adams wrote:
>
> Once upon a time, Neal Gompa said:
> > It benefits LVM-based OS snapshotting equally well. However, the
> > tooling for LVM snapshots are under-developed, so it's not used so
> > much for this.
>
> How? Since the standard install uses a
Once upon a time, Neal Gompa said:
> It benefits LVM-based OS snapshotting equally well. However, the
> tooling for LVM snapshots are under-developed, so it's not used so
> much for this.
How? Since the standard install uses a single root filesystem that
includes /usr and /var, I can't see any
> Am 17.01.2022 um 00:09 schrieb Neal Gompa :
>
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 5:51 PM Fabio Valentini wrote:
>>
>> ….
>
> openSUSE originally did the move because standard openSUSE has a
> snapshot+rollback scheme and tracking the rpmdb is straightforward in
> /usr with all the other system
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 5:59 PM Peter Boy wrote:
>
>
>
> > Am 14.01.2022 um 23:51 schrieb Fabio Valentini :
> >
> >
> > Wait, I thought this change was about making the path consistent
> > within Fedora variants?
>
> The question still is whether this is actually useful and beneficial.
>
> All
On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 5:51 PM Fabio Valentini wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 7:16 PM Colin Walters wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, at 6:05 PM, Fabio Valentini wrote:
> >
> > > The path "/usr/lib/sysimage/rpm" does look very out-of-place in
> > > non-image-based systems, so
> Am 14.01.2022 um 23:51 schrieb Fabio Valentini :
>
>
> Wait, I thought this change was about making the path consistent
> within Fedora variants?
The question still is whether this is actually useful and beneficial.
All the arguments for this move that I have read so far explain benefits
On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 3:51 PM Fabio Valentini wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 7:16 PM Colin Walters wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, at 6:05 PM, Fabio Valentini wrote:
> >
> > > The path "/usr/lib/sysimage/rpm" does look very out-of-place in
> > > non-image-based systems, so
On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 7:16 PM Colin Walters wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, at 6:05 PM, Fabio Valentini wrote:
>
> > The path "/usr/lib/sysimage/rpm" does look very out-of-place in
> > non-image-based systems, so *if* we want to move the rpmdb to a place
> > that's consistent across all
On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, at 6:05 PM, Fabio Valentini wrote:
> The path "/usr/lib/sysimage/rpm" does look very out-of-place in
> non-image-based systems, so *if* we want to move the rpmdb to a place
> that's consistent across all our Editions, it should also be a
> location name that makes sense
On Fri, Jan 14, 2022, at 2:46 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
>
> What about /var/lib/selinux? It's owned by the selinux-policy-targeted
> package. Even though the files may not change often, it probably needs
> to be snapshot and rolled back with revision matching for /usr and
> rpmdb.
Yep, welcome
Dne 13. 01. 22 v 15:26 Colin Walters napsal(a):
On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, at 7:52 AM, Vít Ondruch wrote:
Actually, shouldn't rpm-ostree carry around some copy of the RPM
database, which would describe the state of /usr and once the update is
successful (or snapshot active?), merge it into the
On Friday, 14 January 2022 at 00:05, Fabio Valentini wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 9:45 AM Chris Murphy wrote:
> >
> > Given the choice, I prefer rpm only touches /usr, which includes
> > /usr/var and /usr/etc.
>
> I must say that, of all the bad suggestions in the multiple threads
> this
On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 8:49 AM David Cantrell wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 02:53:52PM -0700, Chris Murphy wrote:
> >I don't see how /state solves the problem, rather than just
> >rearranging the chairs.
>
> I've seen the rearranging the chairs comment in multiple locations now. If
> the
On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 9:45 AM Chris Murphy wrote:
>
> Given the choice, I prefer rpm only touches /usr, which includes
> /usr/var and /usr/etc.
I must say that, of all the bad suggestions in the multiple threads
this proposal has spawned, I dislike using "/usr/var/" the least.
The path
On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 8:34 AM David Cantrell wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 01:24:20PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
> >
> >No, this is not about developers tar'ing up `/usr` by hand. It's about
> >cleanly separating who owns what, and what its lifecycle is, which is
> >critcially important
On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 11:00:28AM +0200, Panu Matilainen wrote:
On 1/10/22 23:53, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 9:20 AM David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 10:01:57AM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RelocateRPMToUsr
== Summary ==
On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 02:53:52PM -0700, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 9:20 AM David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 10:01:57AM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote:
>https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RelocateRPMToUsr
>
>== Summary ==
>Currently, the RPM databases is located in
On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 01:24:20PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, at 11:19 AM, David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 10:01:57AM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RelocateRPMToUsr
== Summary ==
Currently, the RPM databases is located
On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, at 7:52 AM, Vít Ondruch wrote:
> Actually, shouldn't rpm-ostree carry around some copy of the RPM
> database, which would describe the state of /usr and once the update is
> successful (or snapshot active?), merge it into the main system RPM
> database? Apparently,
Dne 12. 01. 22 v 22:05 Chris Murphy napsal(a):
On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 2:04 AM Panu Matilainen wrote:
On 1/12/22 10:45, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 2:00 AM Panu Matilainen wrote:
For many practical purposes it's probably just rearranging the chairs,
but a separate top-level
On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 2:57 PM Neal Gompa wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 3:54 AM Chris Murphy wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 1:36 AM Panu Matilainen wrote:
> > >
> > > > So by moving the rpmdb to /usr, it's basically saying that `rpm
> > > > --import` should change.
> > >
> > >
On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 3:54 AM Chris Murphy wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 1:36 AM Panu Matilainen wrote:
> >
> > > So by moving the rpmdb to /usr, it's basically saying that `rpm --import`
> > > should change.
> >
> > This doesn't seem to be documented as a dependency of this move...
> >
On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 2:04 AM Panu Matilainen wrote:
>
> On 1/12/22 10:45, Chris Murphy wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 2:00 AM Panu Matilainen wrote:
> >> For many practical purposes it's probably just rearranging the chairs,
> >> but a separate top-level directory describing the *system*
On Wed, Jan 12, 2022, at 4:04 AM, Panu Matilainen wrote:
>
> Here seems to be another SMALL undocumented dependency of this change:
> completing the /usrmove thing to cover the whole world including /opt,
> /etc, /var, and presumably /boot as well because packages put stuff in it.
There are
On 1/12/22 10:45, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 2:00 AM Panu Matilainen wrote:
The problem with /usr/something is that the rpmdb is not specific to
/usr contents at all, and unlike any other content in there, so putting
it there just *feels so wrong*. That's what /state or
On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 1:36 AM Panu Matilainen wrote:
>
> > So by moving the rpmdb to /usr, it's basically saying that `rpm --import`
> > should change.
>
> This doesn't seem to be documented as a dependency of this move...
>
Added.
On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 2:00 AM Panu Matilainen wrote:
> The problem with /usr/something is that the rpmdb is not specific to
> /usr contents at all, and unlike any other content in there, so putting
> it there just *feels so wrong*. That's what /state or /sysimage or, as
> we now have, /var
On 1/11/22 17:18, Colin Walters wrote:
On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, at 4:00 AM, Panu Matilainen wrote:
The point was though, that the rpmdb is not at all the only data of this
kind and so having a dedicated home makes sense.
You mentioned dnf/yum/PackageKit data; there's two kinds of that. One
On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, at 4:00 AM, Panu Matilainen wrote:
> The point was though, that the rpmdb is not at all the only data of this
> kind and so having a dedicated home makes sense.
You mentioned dnf/yum/PackageKit data; there's two kinds of that. One is e.g.
/var/cache/dnf which does
On 1/10/22 23:53, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 9:20 AM David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 10:01:57AM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RelocateRPMToUsr
== Summary ==
Currently, the RPM databases is located in `/var`. Let's move it to
On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 9:20 AM David Cantrell wrote:
>
> On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 10:01:57AM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote:
> >https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RelocateRPMToUsr
> >
> >== Summary ==
> >Currently, the RPM databases is located in `/var`. Let's move it to
> >`/usr`. The move is
> Am 10.01.2022 um 18:57 schrieb Alexander Sosedkin :
>
> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 5:20 PM David Cantrell wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 10:01:57AM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote:
>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RelocateRPMToUsr
>>>
>>> == Summary ==
>>> Currently, the RPM databases
On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, at 11:19 AM, David Cantrell wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 10:01:57AM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote:
>>https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RelocateRPMToUsr
>>
>>== Summary ==
>>Currently, the RPM databases is located in `/var`. Let's move it to
>>`/usr`. The move is already
On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 5:20 PM David Cantrell wrote:
>
> On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 10:01:57AM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote:
> >https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RelocateRPMToUsr
> >
> >== Summary ==
> >Currently, the RPM databases is located in `/var`. Let's move it to
> >`/usr`. The move is
On Mon, Jan 10 2022 at 11:19:40 AM -0500, David Cantrell
wrote:
I would like to see Fedora introduce a new top-level directory called:
/state
Huh, a new top-level directory is a pretty big hammer. Seems like it
would be a lot easier to just have two different locations for the
rpmdb if
> Am 10.01.2022 um 17:19 schrieb David Cantrell :
>
> On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 10:01:57AM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote:
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RelocateRPMToUsr
>>
>> == Summary ==
>> Currently, the RPM databases is located in `/var`. Let's move it to
>> `/usr`. The move is already
On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 10:01:57AM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RelocateRPMToUsr
== Summary ==
Currently, the RPM databases is located in `/var`. Let's move it to
`/usr`. The move is already under way in rpm-ostree-based
installations, and in (open)SUSE.
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