On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 04:46:25PM +0100, Michal Schmidt wrote:
Dne 10.1.2013 21:28, Kevin Fenzi napsal(a):
ok, I guess I could try again. Can we remove prelink?
What does it get us these days?
Has anything changed about prelink since the last time it was
discussed here?
prelink should not
(mashing together a few replies. Sorry about the delay.)
Michael Scherer (m...@zarb.org) said:
Le vendredi 11 janvier 2013 à 08:05 -0600, Chris Adams a écrit :
Once upon a time, Bill Nottingham nott...@redhat.com said:
- packagereqed/packagereq
I don't know how widely it is
On 01/11/2013 05:52 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
If you want to replace netstat and ifconfig, that's fine, but make a new
netstat and ifconfig (or at least wrappers that handle the common
options and give similar output). Why do people want to reinvent the
wheel (and ignore all previous wheels)?
On 01/11/2013 02:51 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
Once upon a time, Xose Vazquez Perez xose.vazquez at gmail.com said:
On 01/11/2013 01:17 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
+1, the default info is really a PITA to use, pinfo is much better.
-1, pinfo is dispensable:
$ info ls --subnodes --output - | less
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 02:31:09AM +0100, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote:
Ah yes, because _that's_ intuitive (especially when you are trying to
find information to fix an immediate problem).
A similar command is included in the _man page_ of info, EXAMPLES section.
Anyway, *minimal* doesn't need
Once upon a time, Xose Vazquez Perez xose.vazq...@gmail.com said:
Does people understand what _minimal_ means ?
Please see the subject; this thread is not about the minimal install
(any changes there should probably be in a different thread).
--
Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net
Systems and
Le Jeu 10 janvier 2013 23:33, Bill Nottingham a écrit :
- packagereqtelnet/packagereq
Nowadays it's commonly used to test if a port is open, not to log in
remotely somewhere. What will replace it in this role?
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Nicolas Mailhot
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devel mailing list
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On 01/11/2013 12:01 AM, William Brown wrote:
Nothing I didn't know about it. Will read into it now.
Maybe this shows that a documentation component is needed, to bridge
the gap to say X tool is replaced by Y
IE netstat - ss
man netstat:
NOTE
This program is obsolete.
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 11:24:00AM +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le Jeu 10 janvier 2013 23:33, Bill Nottingham a écrit :
- packagereqtelnet/packagereq
Nowadays it's commonly used to test if a port is open, not to log in
remotely somewhere. What will replace it in this role?
nc
On 01/11/2013 01:17 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
+1, the default info is really a PITA to use, pinfo is much better.
-1, pinfo is dispensable:
$ info ls --subnodes --output - | less
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On 01/11/2013 11:35 AM, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote:
On 01/11/2013 12:01 AM, William Brown wrote:
Nothing I didn't know about it. Will read into it now.
Maybe this shows that a documentation component is needed, to bridge
the gap to say X tool is replaced by Y
IE netstat - ss
man netstat:
Le vendredi 11 janvier 2013 à 11:24 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot a écrit :
Le Jeu 10 janvier 2013 23:33, Bill Nottingham a écrit :
- packagereqtelnet/packagereq
Nowadays it's commonly used to test if a port is open, not to log in
remotely somewhere. What will replace it in this role?
why
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 01:35:46PM +0100, Michael Scherer wrote:
Le vendredi 11 janvier 2013 à 11:24 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot a écrit :
Le Jeu 10 janvier 2013 23:33, Bill Nottingham a écrit :
- packagereqtelnet/packagereq
Nowadays it's commonly used to test if a port is open, not
Once upon a time, Xose Vazquez Perez xose.vazq...@gmail.com said:
On 01/11/2013 01:17 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
+1, the default info is really a PITA to use, pinfo is much better.
-1, pinfo is dispensable:
$ info ls --subnodes --output - | less
Ah yes, because _that's_ intuitive
Once upon a time, Bill Nottingham nott...@redhat.com said:
Sure, going through the diff:
- packagereqbc/packagereq
bc and dc are sometimes used for math in shell scripts (and bc is part
of POSIX/SUS).
- packagereqed/packagereq
I don't know how widely it is used, but ed is also
Le vendredi 11 janvier 2013 à 21:14 +0800, Daniel Veillard a écrit :
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 01:35:46PM +0100, Michael Scherer wrote:
Le vendredi 11 janvier 2013 à 11:24 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot a écrit :
Le Jeu 10 janvier 2013 23:33, Bill Nottingham a écrit :
-
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 03:08:21PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
+idlegacy-unix/id
+_nameLegacy Unix Support/_name
+_descriptionThese packages include clients and commands for legacy
unix environments./_description
+defaultfalse/default
I'm not a big fan of this. It mashes a
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 01:28:23PM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
prelink. Ugh.
ok, I guess I could try again. Can we remove prelink?
What does it get us these days?
I'm happy to back a feature to drop it.
--
Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁ mat...@fedoraproject.org
--
devel
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 03:21:18PM -0700, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
Remember this is removal from core NOT from the distribution..
Actually, it's about @standard, not @core. Keeping the core minimal makes
sense but I think @standard should provide a comfortable working
environment. People may
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 05:33:28PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
- packagereqtime/packagereq
bash has this builtin; don't think the additional features warrant
this on every non-minimal install.
However, it has different semantics from the bash builtin, and it's likely
that people have
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 03:09:28PM +0100, Michael Scherer wrote:
telnet is easier, but that's a task that do not happen so often, and
people who are able to perform it are also fully able to find the tool
I think both the but and the and are not necessarily true.
--
Matthew Miller ☁☁☁
On 01/11/2013 02:14 PM, Daniel Veillard wrote:
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 01:35:46PM +0100, Michael Scherer wrote:
Le vendredi 11 janvier 2013 à 11:24 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot a écrit :
Le Jeu 10 janvier 2013 23:33, Bill Nottingham a écrit :
- packagereqtelnet/packagereq
Nowadays it's
Le vendredi 11 janvier 2013 à 08:05 -0600, Chris Adams a écrit :
Once upon a time, Bill Nottingham nott...@redhat.com said:
- packagereqed/packagereq
I don't know how widely it is used, but ed is also part of POSIX/SUS.
based on my understanding, POSIX do not mandate them to be there
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 03:47:40PM +0100, Michael Scherer wrote:
And while I agree the goal to be POSIX compliant is nice, as far as i
know, we are not, so we do not claim to be. ( ie, people cannot and
should not expect the system to have theses utilities by default ).
Yeah, but it's
Dne 10.1.2013 21:28, Kevin Fenzi napsal(a):
ok, I guess I could try again. Can we remove prelink?
What does it get us these days?
Has anything changed about prelink since the last time it was discussed
here?
prelink should not mess with running executables:
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 04:46:25PM +0100, Michal Schmidt wrote:
ok, I guess I could try again. Can we remove prelink?
What does it get us these days?
Has anything changed about prelink since the last time it was
discussed here?
prelink should not mess with running executables:
Once upon a time, Matthew Miller mat...@fedoraproject.org said:
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 04:46:25PM +0100, Michal Schmidt wrote:
ok, I guess I could try again. Can we remove prelink?
What does it get us these days?
Has anything changed about prelink since the last time it was
discussed
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:55:21 -0500
Matthew Miller mat...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 04:46:25PM +0100, Michal Schmidt wrote:
ok, I guess I could try again. Can we remove prelink?
What does it get us these days?
Has anything changed about prelink since the last time it
Am 11.01.2013 11:35, schrieb Xose Vazquez Perez:
On 01/11/2013 12:01 AM, William Brown wrote:
Nothing I didn't know about it. Will read into it now.
Maybe this shows that a documentation component is needed, to bridge
the gap to say X tool is replaced by Y
IE netstat - ss
man
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 11:40:40 +0100
Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
sarcasmoh yeah ss is a pretty clear and self explaining
command/sarcasm
if people would develop SMART repalcements they would call the
binaries identical with compatible command line switches so a
Obsoletes:
Lennart,
Just my $0.02 on halting the inclusion of these: we might want to make
these available in case there is a user out there who can only afford the
older hardware.
On Jan 10, 2013 7:00 AM, Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
Heya,
I noticed that comps' standard group
Once upon a time, Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com said:
ss is not command line compatible with netstart AFAIK.
It provides similar information...
And IMHO that is the problem. Why did someone see it as a good idea to
develop a replacement for well-known commands (that have existed in
various
Le vendredi 11 janvier 2013 à 08:39 -0800, Richard Vickery a écrit :
Lennart,
Just my $0.02 on halting the inclusion of these: we might want to
make these available in case there is a user out there who can only
afford the older hardware.
They are available, the point is to not install
Chris Adams wrote:
Why do people want to reinvent the
wheel (and ignore all previous wheels)?
Because choice.
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Hi Lennart,
I would like to remove finger from the list. It is still very much in use. I
use it many times daily. I realize my use case is multiuser and server systems
- not of interest to Fedora - but the overhead is little, so I would be
grateful if it remained.
Jon.
--
Sent from my iPad
On Thu, 2013-01-10 at 14:11 -0600, Chris Adams wrote:
Once upon a time, john.flor...@dart.biz john.flor...@dart.biz said:
I use finger effectively without a finger server, on a single-user
workstation (in multi-user mode, of course). I believe it's getting the
data via NSS and in my case
Heya,
I noticed that comps' standard group includes a lot of packages that
were all the hotness in 1990s but aren't really that much anymore. For
example, irda-tools, pcmciautils, finger, rsh, rdist, pinfo have
probably had their best times behind them, and probably shouldn't be
installed by
From: Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de
Heya,
I noticed that comps' standard group includes a lot of packages that
were all the hotness in 1990s but aren't really that much anymore. For
example, irda-tools, pcmciautils, finger, rsh, rdist, pinfo have
probably had their best times
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 9:12 AM, john.flor...@dart.biz wrote:
From: Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de
Heya,
I noticed that comps' standard group includes a lot of packages that
were all the hotness in 1990s but aren't really that much anymore. For
example, irda-tools,
Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de said:
I noticed that comps' standard group includes a lot of packages that
were all the hotness in 1990s but aren't really that much anymore. For
example, irda-tools, pcmciautils, finger, rsh, rdist, pinfo have
probably had their best
On Thu, 10.01.13 09:55, Chris Adams (cmad...@hiwaay.net) wrote:
Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de said:
I noticed that comps' standard group includes a lot of packages that
were all the hotness in 1990s but aren't really that much anymore. For
example, irda-tools,
Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) said:
On Thu, 10.01.13 09:55, Chris Adams (cmad...@hiwaay.net) wrote:
Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de said:
I noticed that comps' standard group includes a lot of packages that
were all the hotness in 1990s but aren't
On Thu, 10.01.13 11:13, Bill Nottingham (nott...@redhat.com) wrote:
Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) said:
On Thu, 10.01.13 09:55, Chris Adams (cmad...@hiwaay.net) wrote:
Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de said:
I noticed that comps' standard group
Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) said:
Then remove the other one?
With respect to the others... most could go. I honestly thought pcmciautils
was gone already, but perhaps that was for something else. Most of the
storage stuff can go too in favor of being brought in either at
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 09:29:43AM -0600, Greg Swift wrote:
maybe i'm weird too, but ya.. i use finger more than who
I think alias in your bashrc is the answer here. :)
--
Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁ mat...@fedoraproject.org
--
devel mailing list
On Thu, 10.01.13 11:33, Bill Nottingham (nott...@redhat.com) wrote:
Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) said:
Then remove the other one?
With respect to the others... most could go. I honestly thought
pcmciautils
was gone already, but perhaps that was for something else.
Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de said:
But I'll bite anyway: we hardly need two info readers installed by
default, do we?
Well, I'd agree with that. The problem (again IMHO) with info is that
it works for emacs users (or at least that's what I guess, I never can
figure
Once upon a time, Matthew Miller mat...@fedoraproject.org said:
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 09:29:43AM -0600, Greg Swift wrote:
maybe i'm weird too, but ya.. i use finger more than who
I think alias in your bashrc is the answer here. :)
finger and who don't do the same thing, so an alias isn't
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 01:28:01PM -0600, Chris Adams wrote:
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 09:29:43AM -0600, Greg Swift wrote:
maybe i'm weird too, but ya.. i use finger more than who
I think alias in your bashrc is the answer here. :)
finger and who don't do the same thing, so an alias isn't
On Thu, 10 Jan 2013, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 01:28:01PM -0600, Chris Adams wrote:
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 09:29:43AM -0600, Greg Swift wrote:
maybe i'm weird too, but ya.. i use finger more than who
I think alias in your bashrc is the answer here. :)
finger and who
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 02:46:08PM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
Fun fact™: I learned from this conversation that my default personal user
environment still contains a .plan file.
What was in your plan?
I can't tell you. It's a Secret Plan.
(That's what it says. I'm pretty sure it dates back to
On Thu, 10 Jan 2013, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 02:46:08PM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
Fun fact™: I learned from this conversation that my default personal user
environment still contains a .plan file.
What was in your plan?
I can't tell you. It's a Secret Plan.
(That's
From: Matthew Miller mat...@fedoraproject.org
But finger can still be installed on the multiple-user systems that
still
persist, or in any environments which still run finger servers. (Are
there
any?) I think the case is pretty good that it's obsolete.
I use finger effectively without a
Seth Vidal (skvi...@fedoraproject.org) said:
Fun fact™: I learned from this conversation that my default personal user
environment still contains a .plan file.
What was in your plan?
Why, the same thing we do every night, Pinky...
In any case, attached is the initial diff I have.
Some
Once upon a time, john.flor...@dart.biz john.flor...@dart.biz said:
I use finger effectively without a finger server, on a single-user
workstation (in multi-user mode, of course). I believe it's getting the
data via NSS and in my case that means LDAP. That's not too esoteric
IMHO.
Yeah,
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 03:08:21PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Seth Vidal (skvi...@fedoraproject.org) said:
Fun fact™: I learned from this conversation that my default personal user
environment still contains a .plan file.
What was in your plan?
Why, the same thing we do every
On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 15:08:21 -0500
Bill Nottingham nott...@redhat.com wrote:
...snip...
In any case, attached is the initial diff I have.
Some additional ideas, and reasons why I may have left things Iin
that were suggested to remove...
bind-utils in core?
Probibly for nslookup/dig. I'm
On 01/10/2013 03:08 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote:
smartmontools... could be dropped, if people don't use it much. All it does
out of the box is e-mail root (and throw messages at the tty.)
smartmontools brings in smartctl which starts and displays status from
SMART tests. The replacement is I
Tomasz Torcz wrote:
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 03:08:21PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Seth Vidal (skvidal at fedoraproject.org) said:
Fun fact™: I learned from this conversation that my default personal user
environment still contains a .plan file.
What was in your plan?
Why, the
bridge-utils is needed to configure bridges, and is small. You can create a
bridge with /sbin/ip, but not add interfaces to it.
The other quirk about iproute (Which contains /sbin/ip) is that netstat
is in net-tools which also contains ifconfig. Would be nice to have that
separated, since
Once upon a time, Bill Nottingham nott...@redhat.com said:
Some additional ideas, and reasons why I may have left things Iin that were
suggested to remove...
Okay, that's a starting point.
However, what is the reasoning behind this? There are a number of
things in your list of removed things
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 07:53:19 +1030
William Brown will...@firstyear.id.au wrote:
bridge-utils is needed to configure bridges, and is small. You can
create a bridge with /sbin/ip, but not add interfaces to it.
The other quirk about iproute (Which contains /sbin/ip) is that
netstat is
On 10 January 2013 15:10, Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net wrote:
Once upon a time, Bill Nottingham nott...@redhat.com said:
Some additional ideas, and reasons why I may have left things Iin that were
suggested to remove...
Okay, that's a starting point.
However, what is the reasoning behind
Tomasz Torcz (to...@pipebreaker.pl) said:
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 03:08:21PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Seth Vidal (skvi...@fedoraproject.org) said:
Fun fact™: I learned from this conversation that my default personal user
environment still contains a .plan file.
What was in
Chris Adams (cmad...@hiwaay.net) said:
Once upon a time, Bill Nottingham nott...@redhat.com said:
Some additional ideas, and reasons why I may have left things Iin that were
suggested to remove...
Okay, that's a starting point.
However, what is the reasoning behind this? There are a
On Thu, 2013-01-10 at 15:14 -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 07:53:19 +1030
William Brown will...@firstyear.id.au wrote:
bridge-utils is needed to configure bridges, and is small. You can
create a bridge with /sbin/ip, but not add interfaces to it.
The other
Chris Adams wrote:
Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de said:
But I'll bite anyway: we hardly need two info readers installed by
default, do we?
Well, I'd agree with that. The problem (again IMHO) with info is that
it works for emacs users (or at least that's what I
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