then a single keypress to get
you to that advanced startup mode/target.
The startup chime on Apple hardware is done by the firmware. It happens
regardless of the OS installed.
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On Mar 11, 2013, at 3:31 PM, seth vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:24:28 -0600
Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote:
If the bioses and systems years ago had been opaque we wouldn't have
gotten this far.
Please elaborate on this, and define this far
, with Fedora 18, Recovery options in the Advanced submenu are now
suppressed. So users need to know how to edit GRUB entries to get to single
user, emergency or rescue modes, as a troubleshoot method. This is obscure.
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, the
basics, see what's working correctly and not.
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they need to find it. Their trouble is brief.
There is zero information in the GRUB menu that conveys kernel fallback as a
troubleshooting method. It's completely non-obvious until you learn it (from a
source other than the GRUB menu).
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On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:45 AM, john.flor...@dart.biz wrote:
From: Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com
Kernel update breaks system. User ignorant of hold-down key approach
is stuck. Menu at least advertises possibility of alternative.
This logic doesn't work. The user ignorant
On Mar 12, 2013, at 10:35 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 17:32, schrieb Chris Murphy:
On Mar 12, 2013, at 6:02 AM, Jiří Eischmann eischm...@redhat.com wrote:
New kernels bring a lot of
regressions and we don't have enough test coverage to avoid them
heals' by automatically falling back to a prior kernel in
case that'll help resolve the problem. With btrfs snapshots before updates,
more than just the prior kernel can be fallen back to.
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(and Fedora, especially with GRUB2, makes it difficult to do
that, since you have to know how to edit the kernel command line to add
rescue).
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I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble
! It's a fuzzy variation of if you don't like it in this
country, get the f out! It's so warm and cuddly!
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shouldn't have nearly as many kernel
induced problems upon release, and if it does it's likely a VM or bare meta and
boy wouldn't it be nice if it did fallback on its own?
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, and
file systems of all things, never having a single chance of seeing such things?
They weren't merely hidden from me. They didn't even exist.
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branch?).
There should be some safety check that no more than X% of files get
removed in a push (where X is probably small).
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I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
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suppressing the GRUB menu by default.
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is rejected just in case the video is garbled.
Perhaps something similar can be leveraged for a one time boot, just to ensure
at least video is functioning?
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Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org said:
Worse than that, having grub check for a held key will significantly
slow down the boot process even if there's no key being held.
How long is significantly? How hard is it to check for a keypress?
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installing, there's no obvious way
to boot back to their normal Windows install.
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Once upon a time, Rahul Sundaram methe...@gmail.com said:
On 03/13/2013 02:33 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
Also, dropping the boot loader menu might be okay for single-OS
systems (I'm not convinced, but whatever). What about dual-boot? If I
tell someone running Windows to try Fedora to see Linux
, in this brave new fast boot world, how is one expected to get to
the BIOS or firmware set-up programs?
Firmware specific. F1 and F2 are very common. HP and some Toshibas are Esc.
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it (but nobody else could), or root
could create a symlink in /tmp that everybody could follow.
I didn't find a detailed description of the hardlink protection right
off, however it did apparently break existing programs, so it was
disabled by default.
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Systems
Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org said:
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 01:28:36PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org said:
Worse than that, having grub check for a held key will significantly
slow down the boot process even
, etc. Unless you have a 100% fail-proof method of
detecting failed boots, you're just setting up a system where a stuck
boot is unrecoverable without additional resources (such as a rescue
CD).
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I don't
Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org said:
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 02:52:23PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
That doesn't seem all that significant to me; I guess we have different
measures (to me significantly slow down the boot process would be
something on the order of 5-10
On Mar 13, 2013, at 4:56 PM, Mike Pinkerton pseli...@mindspring.com wrote:
On 13 Mar 2013, at 14:51, Chris Murphy wrote:
By the way, in this brave new fast boot world, how is one expected to get
to the BIOS or firmware set-up programs?
Firmware specific. F1 and F2 are very common
, but damage is averted at the last possible moment.
That is for symlink protection I believe. There's no way to do any
hardlink protection at lookup time.
Basically, these are two very different things being lumped together,
and they should be addressed individually.
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care about Windows 8 hardware (and apparently,
neither does much of the computer market), so that is hardly a useful
measuring stick. If this is all about optimizing for Windows 8
hardware, then IMHO that's a waste of time.
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), if you
can't trust the boot environment, you are already hosed.
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of the standard sysctl settings are in the file
/usr/lib/sysctl.d/00-system.conf, which comes from initscripts. I see
no reason to create another file, just to add a couple more defaults.
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I don't speak
testing.
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in the French Quarter where there's always room for one more.
And is fixing this apostrophe issue going to have some clear benefit anywhere
else? It's 2013, this is the 19th release of Fedora, and this is the first time
it's come up?
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distribution
only, but I'm skeptical. For a public project I don't think it's appropriate.
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with non ASCII alphanumeric characters
is chosen).
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I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
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on it now for F20.
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I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
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scanning across 5 packages 100GB on a SAN.
It would also have a significant impact on the mirror servers' disk
space (speaking for a mirror that is running low on disk and no $$ to
upgrade).
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I don't speak
. Your only
practical choice for distribution is HTTP; rsync has much higher server
overhead and only available on some mirrors. If you want anything other
than the full download, it'll have to be in the form of additional
repodata files generated as part of the push.
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mirror, or do I need to download the full DVD?
Alternately: is it sufficient to just boot from the images in my local
development/19 mirror (so I don't have to download anything new)?
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I don't speak
in the last 3 years and
there have been security issues (where %changelog entries might be the
only documentation that issues have been fixed). Certainly no entries
that mention CVEs should be auto-removed if the package version hasn't
changed.
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don't have
anything current on the drive, so I chose not to preserve anything. I
tried a minimal install; no problems up to the bootloader, which gave me
an unknown error.
Also, I tried to report the failure to BZ or save it, and I got another
unknown error.
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Systems
or how many).
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is not possible in another non-C language. eg. Passing a
libvirt virDomainPtr from (Perl) Sys::Virt to Sys::Guestfs.
Why do you say that? I'm pretty sure you can.
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I don't speak for anybody but myself
object/library/module/etc.
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able (or
not) to pass pointers. That's the API of the two modules not supporting
what you want to do. I'm pretty sure the APIs of the modules could be
changed to support this, assuming the underlying libraries support it.
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and
other security fixes.
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Once upon a time, Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net said:
The system is a Zotac Zbox nano AD10. I downloaded the image from the
above URL and put it on an SD card and did a UEFI boot. I don't have
anything current on the drive, so I chose not to preserve anything. I
tried a minimal install
to designate the directory dir
for the particular image.
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I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
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computers,
went with two DVD's for a period, even though they had hardware that supported
DVD/DL. There's precedent. If it's going to cause aneurisms figuring out what
to drop, just use two images.
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such
as the bigger apps, from the local media.
Or LiveDVD iso remains DVD/SL for both current and older hardware. And the
install DVD (not-live) moves to DVD/DL.
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to first explicitly state that release names must be
encoded in UTF-8, and second list the forbidden glyphs with their
codepoint number (to avoid ambiguities).
I don't think so, because I don't think the shell recognizes anything
but the 7-bit characters as special.
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?). That still has the
dependencies problem though.
I don't know if all of that is worth the trouble.
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already.)
At this point, why is there a source RPM ISO? Does anybody actually use
it to get source RPMs?
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I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
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Once upon a time, Bruno Wolff III br...@wolff.to said:
On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 09:12:09 -0500,
Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net wrote:
At this point, why is there a source RPM ISO? Does anybody actually use
it to get source RPMs?
I suspect it is mainly for GPL compliance. It has
to choose Gnome desktop,
network server, etc.
I would say that sounds like there was something wrong with your repo.
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I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
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On May 3, 2013, at 2:04 PM, Dan Mashal dan.mas...@gmail.com wrote:
I believe that this is a major security risk and that this is a new UI
change going forward and this is not a bug.
Do you think this is a good idea?
No. I think it's a bug, and a bug should be filed on it.
Chris Murphy
their password entry.)
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is that passwords are not displayed on the screen.
Many people look down at the keyboard to type and would not necessarily
look up as they are typing the password. So, they probably won't know
the password is displayed in the clear on their screen until they are
done.
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Once upon a time, Mike Pinkerton pseli...@mindspring.com said:
On 3 May 2013, at 15:07, Chris Adams wrote:
Once upon a time, Mike Pinkerton pseli...@mindspring.com said:
Does anaconda check package signatures for the netinstall?
I believe so. Checksums are definately checked (RPM won't
this means. On my MBP these characters are printed in all
applications including in anaconda's plaintext password field. I've yet to
experience the behavior you describe on any Mac.
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is a common cross platform behavior.
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validation _during_ install, not prior
to install. How many people compare the ISO checksum and the signature
on the checksum file? AFAIK there is not automated tool to do that, so
it is a bunch of manual steps.
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for
the system to be functional, so open-vm-tools does not belong in @core.
It's only a little disk space is not a valid reason for it to be in
@core; that path leads to dozens of it's only a little disk space in
@core (which would add up to a lot of disk space).
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Systems
of debate, especially
on-line where it is easy to review the thread before posting.
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userspace hit on the startup time where the kernel takes 1.9 seconds.
Off hand this doesn't seem reasonable, especially sendmail. If the time can't
be brought down by a lot, can it ship disabled by default?
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Once upon a time, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com said:
In sendmail's defense, the time is about the same on F18. (It's consistently
a bit faster in an F19 VM running on the same F18 system as host.)
When sendmail takes that long, there's a configuration problem (which
could
On May 14, 2013, at 4:12 PM, Chris Adams li...@cmadams.net wrote:
Once upon a time, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com said:
In sendmail's defense, the time is about the same on F18. (It's consistently
a bit faster in an F19 VM running on the same F18 system as host.)
When sendmail
On May 14, 2013, at 4:56 PM, Jeffrey Bastian jbast...@redhat.com wrote:
I wonder if there are other oddities like this that are skewing the
statistics reported by systemd-analyze.
It's not just a statistical skewing, I'm getting 30+ second delays before I can
ssh into the system.
Chris
Once upon a time, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com said:
The only things related to networking I change is setting a hostname from
localhost to f18s, f19s or f19q; and occasionally adding the b43 firmware if
I decide to go wireless.
Do you add the changed hostname to /etc/hosts
chris@f19q.local
Whereas if I change the hostname to f19q.localdomain, to ssh into the system
now I have to use a non-obvious, nonstandard:
ssh chris@f19qlocaldomain
So the addition of localdomain doesn't seem like the right fix. sendmail is
just being stupid in my view, and not failing
On May 14, 2013, at 5:20 PM, Chris Adams li...@cmadams.net wrote:
Once upon a time, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com said:
The only things related to networking I change is setting a hostname from
localhost to f18s, f19s or f19q; and occasionally adding the b43 firmware if
I decide
on other
platforms so I don't understand the advantage of it being needed on Fedora. And
if I use it, I end up with worse problems in that more services have long
delays rather than just sendmail and sm-client, and I can no longer do ssh
chris@f19q.local but rather I have to type chris@f19qlocaldomain
in that more services
have long delays rather than just sendmail and sm-client, and I can no
longer do ssh chris@f19q.local but rather I have to type
chris@f19qlocaldomain.
I know you said that, but as I wrote in the bug, I can't reproduce that
at all. I use foo.localdomain hostnames, I don't
a
connecting socket to wait for that). Maybe that could be done with a
separate firstboot-like service that gets disabled once run?
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that these are insurmountable issues, just that that's
where things stand today (to my knowledge).
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on a human scale rather hundreds per second), is there a
disadvantage to socket activation beyond a very slight delay in the first
access?
Well, SSH connection rate is on human scale until your system is the
target of a scan, which can result in at least dozens per second.
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smaller...
The difference is that when sshd is running as a traditional daemon,
it can do all of its start-up processing once (parsing config files,
loading host keys, etc.), instead of for each connection.
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On May 15, 2013, at 4:49 AM, Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
On Tue, 14.05.13 17:58, Chris Murphy (li...@colorremedies.com) wrote:
Static hostname: f19q.localdomain
Takes 1.5 minutes before I can ssh into the VM, but the
sendmail.service is now about 2 seconds instead
On May 15, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Jeffrey Bastian jbast...@redhat.com wrote:
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 05:58:42PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
And avahi doesn't play nice with the localdomain extension anyway.
Without the extension I ssh into boxes just like I do from Windows or
OS X:
ssh chris
on a fresh install if it is
enabled?
That result was from a fresh install in a qemu-kvm VM.
Fresh installed (wipefs -a the F19 partitions, then remove the partitions with
fdisk, reinstall) on bare metal, and on the fifth reboot I get:
17.495s restorecond.service
Chris Murphy
component to file a bug against? I guess I have to find
the package that caused these .service files to be installed?
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, but 10 seconds seems like a lot of time, but is it?
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seem to me like a
good idea to see if there is some underlying issue at work here.
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On May 16, 2013, at 12:57 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
On Thu, 2013-05-16 at 12:51 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
And I missed one other I don't understand, which is a top 3 offender:
9.855s accounts-daemon.service
# We pull this in by graphical.target instead
On May 16, 2013, at 1:41 PM, Chris Adams li...@cmadams.net wrote:
Once upon a time, Heiko Adams heiko.ad...@gmail.com said:
My top 6 of extreme long starting services are:
$ systemd-analyze blame
27.652s NetworkManager.service
27.072s chronyd.service
27.015s avahi
On May 16, 2013, at 1:51 PM, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote:
I wonder if wireless connectivity is related? When I reboot with and without
a wired connection attached, I get the same result. But maybe wireless is
causing delays just by being configured, even if a wired
On May 16, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote:
OK well this isn't right. On every reboot, wireless is activated and
connected to. But the wired connection is disabled.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=963952
The most relevant line I'm finding
deleted the VM.
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on the Live
media, which works on every boot. Flummoxed.
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On May 16, 2013, at 3:36 PM, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote:
Rebooted. I still have the problem. Wired connection is Off on each reboot.
This happens even if I regress to the 3.9.0 kernel that's used on the Live
media, which works on every boot. Flummoxed.
I found part
On May 16, 2013, at 1:51 PM, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote:
But maybe wireless is causing delays just by being configured, even if a
wired connection is available?
Not really. The one improvement is in NetworkManager-wait-online.service which
with a wired connection instead
On May 16, 2013, at 10:49 PM, Dan Williams d...@redhat.com wrote:
On Thu, 2013-05-16 at 15:44 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
On May 16, 2013, at 3:36 PM, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote:
Rebooted. I still have the problem. Wired connection is Off on each reboot.
This happens even
, it becomes more difficult (like Windows) to deal with any
problems, hardware upgrades, etc. down the road.
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On May 17, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Ric Wheeler rwhee...@redhat.com wrote:
On 05/16/2013 02:39 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Thu, 16.05.13 12:20, Chris Murphy (li...@colorremedies.com) wrote:
There have been no crashes, so ext4 doesn't need fsck on every boot:
4.051s systemd-fsck
On May 17, 2013, at 3:56 PM, Eric Sandeen sand...@redhat.com wrote:
On 5/17/13 3:58 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
Seems some extra complexity is needed anyway since the way to deal
with file system problems differs with the various fs's. XFS and
Btrfs fsck's are noops. XFS needs xfs_repair run
On May 17, 2013, at 3:53 PM, Eric Sandeen sand...@redhat.com wrote:
On Thu, 16.05.13 12:20, Chris Murphy (li...@colorremedies.com) wrote:
There have been no crashes, so ext4 doesn't need fsck on every boot:
4.051s systemd-fsck-root.service
515ms
systemd
this way for WiFi. It's inconsistent.
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On May 21, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 21.05.2013 22:02, schrieb Chris Murphy:
Maybe someone can explain to me the use case for ONBOOT= where its value
isn't tied
to the current network state. I wasted an inordinate, unreasonable amount
of time
On May 21, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
On Tue, 2013-05-21 at 14:02 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
1. Connect Automatically may work as designed, but it's a flawed
design. It makes no sense to have an admin user enable a network
through the Gnome shell toolbar
On May 21, 2013, at 2:30 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 21.05.2013 22:25, schrieb Chris Murphy:
On May 21, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 21.05.2013 22:02, schrieb Chris Murphy:
Maybe someone can explain to me the use case for ONBOOT
On May 21, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
On Tue, 2013-05-21 at 14:33 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
On May 21, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
On Tue, 2013-05-21 at 14:02 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
I'm just trying to figure out
On May 21, 2013, at 5:03 PM, Dan Williams d...@redhat.com wrote:
On Tue, 2013-05-21 at 14:02 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
Automatically may work as designed, but it's a flawed design. It makes no
sense to have an admin user enable a network through the Gnome shell toolbar
icon (Network icon
On May 21, 2013, at 5:14 PM, Dan Williams d...@redhat.com wrote:
On Tue, 2013-05-21 at 14:33 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
Is Gnome Settings Network leveraging Network Manager? If so, it's using
a different naming convention than systemd, and it seems the two are
involved in some non
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