Re: CMake's check-compiles fails to parse WITH_GZFILEOP

2024-01-05 Thread Honza Horak
Or just latest zlib-ng update -- upstream change
https://github.com/zlib-ng/zlib-ng/commit/6592accb2541aa637844cabef16b7adbb4cec4e1
got to fedora with update to 2.1.5 (Dec 27) and koschei started to fail Dec
28: https://koschei.fedoraproject.org/package/evolution-data-server

Not sure whether it's a regression in zlib-ng or something to be changed in
evolution-data-server though, so CCing Tulio for awareness.

Honza

On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 10:22 AM Vít Ondruch  wrote:

> zlib-devel-1.2.13-4.fc39.x86_64 vs zlib-ng-compat-devel-2.1.5-1.fc40.x86_64
>
>
> Just guessing. I might be completely wrong.
>
>
> Vít
>
>
> Dne 05. 01. 24 v 9:59 Milan Crha napsal(a):
> >   Hi,
> > this is new to me. I'm trying to build evolution-data-server in a side
> > tag for rawhide and the build [1] fails in the CMake phase with error:
> >
> > -- Performing Test HAVE_GPOWERPROFILEMONITOR
> > CMake Error: Parse error in command line argument: WITH_GZFILEOP
> >  Should be: VAR:type=value
> > CMake Error at
> /usr/share/cmake/Modules/Internal/CheckSourceCompiles.cmake:101
> (try_compile):
> >   Failed to configure test project build system.
> > Call Stack (most recent call first):
> >   /usr/share/cmake/Modules/CheckCSourceCompiles.cmake:52
> (cmake_check_source_compiles)
> >   CMakeLists.txt:916 (CHECK_C_SOURCE_COMPILES)
> >
> > I checked the sources and there is no reference to WITH_GZFILEOP,
> > neither in the .spec file, thus it comes from some other project.
> >
> > Exactly the same test [1] passes fine in f39.
> >
> > Does this sound familiar to anyone? Maybe the library or what, which
> > exposes it, should be corrected?
> >
> >   Thanks and bye,
> >   Milan
> >
> > [1] https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=111321151
> > [2] https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=111321411
> > --
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Re: Workflow and other problems with the Fedora container infrastructure

2022-01-13 Thread Honza Horak
On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 5:51 AM Kevin Fenzi  wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 01:02:59PM +0100, Lumír Balhar wrote:
> > If we migrate our container images to some other registry (e.g. a common
> > fedora space on quay.io), we’ll be able to rebuild them after every
> merged
> > PR or every week, do chain rebuilds and push them to the registry
> directly
> > from Github CI. This will make our lives significantly easier, and in
> turn
> > our images better.
>
> We are looking into dropping out registry and moving to quay.io
> ourselves. ;)
>
>
Is this something more than a thought at this point? Something where we can
follow the design and progress?


> > Are there any benefits to using Fedora infrastructure and Fedora
> containers
> > registry which I don’t see that we should consider?
>
> I'm not sure... hopefully folks who know the pipeline will chime in
> here.
>

If you know who the folks are, we'd be glad for a gentle ping, so they
comment here and we do not stop providing something that other would start
to miss.

Thanks,
Honza


> kevin
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Chain scratch builds in koji using a module

2021-04-14 Thread Honza Horak

Hi folks,

I found this thing and thought it might be useful for testing depended 
packages before committing, something similar to the chain scratch 
builds in koji, that are not available (to my knowledge).


I didn't realize before we can use module builds for any package set, 
that does not even relate to any existing module in Fedora, so sharing 
for anybody who finds this useful.


The use case here is that we have two or more packages that we want to 
test before changes land in production branch in dist-git, and where 
copr is not enough (for example we want all koji arches). (yes, for many 
things copr is much more powerful tool)


The idea is to run a modular scratch build that picks the packages from 
concrete dist-git branches and build them in an expected order.


The changes must be in a branch in dist-git (not in a fork), but it can 
be a private branch. Then we need a modulemd file like this:


$ cat > testmodule.yaml 

Re: PostgreSQL 13 - Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal

2020-07-15 Thread Honza Horak

On 7/8/20 12:24 PM, Miro Hrončok wrote:


When we updated from PostgreSQL 11 to PostgreSQL 12 in Fedora 32, there 
was no targeted rebuild of the dependent packages and a dozen of 
packages failed to install. We were firefighting this between beta and 
final in:


https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1811800

I would very much like to see a targeted rebuild of dependent packages 
in a side tag in the scope (who does it? when?) and a contingency 
mechanism that reverts to PostgreSQL 12 if many packages cannot build.


+1 for better plan for rebuilding depended packages, although not all 
packages might necessarily be prepared for v13 early enough upstream -- 
for that reason I'd like to also see a list of depended packages that we 
consider crucial (postgis, pgpool, ...), and rest that would not block 
the postgresql update if they fail to build or install.


Honza
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Re: plan to orphan cassandra

2019-09-17 Thread Honza Horak

On 9/8/19 8:19 PM, Miro Hrončok wrote:

On 06. 09. 19 20:15, Ricardo Martinelli Oliveira wrote:

Honza,

Can we discuss the possibility to hand over the package to me? I am
the guy who annoyed you on scl mailing list and I'm red hatter too.
I'm interested to have this working on OpenShift since our partners
did not get it run wel on it.


Sure, I'm more than happy to. It's all yours!

I've given admin permissions to you but what Miro writes, you need to 
re-claim the orphaned package. What I was thinking about was building it 
as a module, to avoid the need to own and ship the build-only 
dependencies in fedora if nothing else would require it.. but that's up 
to you what way of building would be better.


Good luck with that!

Honza



As a future maintainer of cassandra, could you please have a look a this?

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1737649

I believe that an official "who maintains what" can be solved once this 
package is installable.


That said, cassandra is now an orphan and to claim it, you should follow:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Orphaned_package_that_need_new_maintainers#Claiming_Ownership_of_an_Orphaned_Package 




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Re: mongo-cxx-driver 3.4.0 is available

2019-09-09 Thread Honza Horak
Sorry for the delay, the update is done in Rawhide. I don't plan to 
update F31 as it is a library rebase, unless there is a good reason.


Honza

On 9/6/19 5:17 PM, Till Hofmann wrote:


On 7/10/19 8:01 AM, Petr Kubat wrote:

Hi Till,

On 7/10/19 7:39 AM, Till Hofmann wrote:

Hi all,

I'm trying to contact the maintainer (Marek Skalický) of
mongo-cxx-driver, which has a pending update:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1723810

However, if I try to select "Need additional information", I get an
error:
   You can't ask Marek Skalický  because that account
is disabled.

Should the package have been orphaned?


No, as the package still has active maintainers (see pagure).

What should have happened I guess is the transfer of ownership to the
new maintainers (in CC)



So far nothing has happened, can someone please update the package?

Thanks!
Till
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plan to orphan cassandra

2019-08-22 Thread Honza Horak
Cassandra has been originally packaged by folks in our team, in the time 
we had some stakes there. Since then, priorities changed and also people 
involved are not in our team any more. We tried to keep it packaged in 
Fedora with reasonable effort, but turned to be too big burden recently 
(depends on python2, missing java deps).


From that reason, with sadness in my heart, I'd like to announce a plan 
to orphan the cassandra package in Fedora. So, this is obviously a call 
for everybody who would like to take it over -- let me know. There is 
also an idea to build it as a module, which could help us with missing 
deps, but that would be done later and does not change the plan for 
orphaning.


Cheers,
Honza
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Re: F30 Self-Contained Change proposal: MongoDB Removal

2019-01-29 Thread Honza Horak

On 1/29/19 11:57 AM, Vít Ondruch wrote:


Dne 29. 01. 19 v 11:39 Miro Hrončok napsal(a):

On 29. 01. 19 11:29, Ben Cotton wrote:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/MongoDB_Removal

== Summary ==
Fedora has determined that the Server Side Public Licensev1 (SSPL) is
not a Free Software License. Therefore, we need to drop MongoDB from
Fedora.


While I'm in favor of the removal, I don't think this is entirely true.

It should read:


Therefore, we need to drop MongoDB from Fedora or never update it

again.

Never updating it would bring security issues, hence we decided to

remove it.


Other developers: N/A (not a System Wide Change)


This is not true. This page needs to list all dependent packages on
Mongo and all dependent packages on Mongo connectors (such as
python-pymongo).



Yes, right. There is rubygem-mongo and rubygem-mongoid and they will
become FTBFS without MongoDB. The test suite could be disabled, but this
will be unfortunate, because historically it helped to uncover issues on
some of our arches.


While I see the value of tests, I personally don't consider just the 
testing purposes to be a good enough reason to keep unmaintained 
mongodb-server in Fedora, and don't see any other option here.


Do you see any viable solution here, Vit?

Honza


Vít




The change should explain if other packagers are expected to remove
the functionality from their packages or if the change owners will do
that.

If we just remove Mongo, it will cause broken deps.

Also, do we plan to move Mongo to the famous other repo (I assume
nonfree section)?


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Re: transfig license change

2018-07-16 Thread Honza Horak

On 07/16/2018 09:59 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:

Hi,

On 15-07-18 09:11, Honza Horak wrote:

License of transfig package was changed
from: MIT
to: MIT and GPLv3+

https://src.fedoraproject.org/cgit/rpms/transfig.git/commit/?id=fe80b4977bc3a9a3c47497a0042a2ca4a5001ba8 



The fig2dev/lib/.c files are not used when building on Linux, after adding:

rm fig2dev/lib/.c

To "%setup" the package still builds fine and without the rm, no .o files
are generated, so I believe that the correct license is just MIT.

Please change the license tag back to just MIT to correctly reflect
the license of the binaries in the package which is just MIT as the
GPL licensed files are not used for building.


Change reverted, sorry for mystification.


Also in the future if you add combined license tags because of something
like this, please put a comment in the .spec file above the License
tag explaining why it is that way, rather then hiding this in the commit
message of the commit changing the license tag.


OK, will do.

Honza


Regards,

Hans
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Re: xfig license change

2018-07-16 Thread Honza Horak

On 07/16/2018 09:54 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:

Hi,

On 15-07-18 09:25, Honza Horak wrote:

License of xfig package was changed
from: MIT
to: MIT and GPLv3+ and LGPLv2+

PR submitted, not yet merged:
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/xfig/pull-request/3

Hans or Steve, please, merge.


The lib/.c files are not used when building on Linux, after adding: "rm 
lib/.c" to "%setup" the package still builds fine and without the rm, no 
.o files are generated, so I believe that the correct license is just MIT


I confirm Hans is correct, sorry for misunderstanding.


It seems I cannot close the pull-req without merging it,
for some reason, can you close it please  ?


Closed.

Thanks,
Honza


Regards,

Hans
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xfig license change

2018-07-15 Thread Honza Horak

License of xfig package was changed
from: MIT
to: MIT and GPLv3+ and LGPLv2+

PR submitted, not yet merged:
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/xfig/pull-request/3

Hans or Steve, please, merge.

Thanks,
Honza
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transfig license change

2018-07-15 Thread Honza Horak

License of transfig package was changed
from: MIT
to: MIT and GPLv3+

https://src.fedoraproject.org/cgit/rpms/transfig.git/commit/?id=fe80b4977bc3a9a3c47497a0042a2ca4a5001ba8
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Re: New "tests" namespace to share test code

2018-03-01 Thread Honza Horak

On 02/25/2018 08:59 PM, Pierre-Yves Chibon wrote:

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 12:12:33PM +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 03:50:38PM +0100, Pierre-Yves Chibon wrote:

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 05:28:20PM +0100, Petr Šplíchal wrote:

Hi!

During the last days there have been concerns raised regarding
what is an appropriate content for the tests namespace. [1] My
original idea was to enable sharing tests even across branches of
the same component, not only for tests to be used by completely
different packages. The initial examples might have been a bit
misleading in this respect. One of the main points still holds:


  * Tests might follow a different branching pattern than the
dist-git repo, leading to code duplication


 From the feedback from developers I feel they always keep on mind
and care a lot about the maintenance costs. So it perfectly makes
sense to me if they want to keep and maintain tests in a separate
repo instead of merging/cherry-picking between dist-git branches.

When, for a particular package, it is the most efficient way to
maintain tests in a separate repo why should we discourage from
this approach? There are packages where it makes more sense to
store test code directly in dist-git. And it is still an option.
But why should we enforce this for all?


My worries are basically that this mechanism is hiding the tests from the
package maintainers. It splits the concerns between people maintaining the
artifacts and people maintaining the tests, which is exactly what the original
plan to bring CI was *not* about.
The idea has always been to bring the tests where the code lives, so that both
can be worked on as one, to make tests be a concern of the package maintainer
very much like updating the artifact (rpms, image..) is, while getting support
from QE for them (the tests).

In addition, this is what I fear most:
The tests for the package are stored elsewhere, we're not sure where (the tests
namespace, a random git repo on the internet...), the packager update package
and the tests fail.
What do you think will happen?
a) the packager will look for $random_place_of_the_internet where tests are and
spend time trying to fix them.
b) the packager will turn off the tests because they get in the way

If the packager wants to turn off the tests, they will have to go through
dist-git to do it, they may very well end up turning the tests off anyway, but
if the tests are right there, they may as well have a quick look at them to see
if they can fix them quickly before deciding.

In addition, if the packager turn the tests off and the people maintaining the
tests do not realize that, they will end up spending time maintaining
$somewhere_else tests that aren't being used.
Having them interact directly with the dist-git repo will increase the chances
that they see/realize when something is turned off.

If that means we have less tests in dist-git because the maintainers do not want
them, I'd say so be it.
In the long term this is their loss, they are the ones who will get the bug
reports and will have to deal with them, they are the ones who will have to dive
into old code rather than going back into something that is still fresh in their
mind.
As long as, it is clear that they have been approached and that it is their
choice to not merge pull-requests adding tests, I think the people offering to
help should not be the ones blamed.


pingou, I share your thinking in general, but I think your concern is
overstated. Petr's original e-mail suggests that the new separate
namespace should be used *in* *preference* to the in-dist-git, and your
reply concentrates on that. But I think that we want to have both
possibilities, because both will work best for different cases, and it's
just the emphasis that needs to change.

I agree that having tests in a separate namespace is not any simpler
or more manageable for most packages. Thus, I think that *by* *default*
we should put tests in dist-git. IMHO this will apply to 90% of all
tests and packages.

OTOH, there will be cases where it'll be useful to split the tests out
into a separate area. The documentation for tests/ has the example of
shared tests for bash/zhs/dash. I'm sure that there will be other
cases, like testing of stacks consisting of multiple packages
apache+mysql+php or glibc+gcc+binutils, etc, where it'll be beneficial
to keep the test separate. The management of permissions in this case
will be _much_ more complicated, because to meaningfully update the
tests sometimes it'll be necessary to change the test repo and _each_
of the packages. But having them separate is better than randomly
sticking the shared tests in dist-git for one of the involved packages.
Nevertheless, because of the overhead of more repos and additional
permissions, IMHO this should never be advertised as the default
approach, but as an "advanced" possibility.


I violently agree with this :) I am very much advocating for using the test

Re: New "tests" namespace to share test code

2018-03-01 Thread Honza Horak

On 03/01/2018 04:00 PM, Petr Šplíchal wrote:

To sum up what I've heard so far from the developer side:

* I would like to enable tests for my component (yes, I want)
* I will take care of them (really, I see the benefit in CI)
* I want to easily collaborate on tests with qe (direct commits)
* I don't want to give qe commit access to the rpms dist git

This is quite likely the crux of the problem.

Personally, I'm perfectly happy to give write access to any repo
to people who have shown that they know what they are doing.
We have pull requests in dist-git pagure now, and I think this is
a better approach:
1. ask QE contributors to submit PRs
2. if enough cooperation happens and trust is established, give
   privileges to write to the repo directly, possibly with an agreement
   that this specific person should only touch tests, and not the
   packaging.

I think it's perfectly fine to never get to point 2.: many many
upstream projects require a review from a second person, or sometimes
even two reviews before a PR is merged, which means that one _never_
merges their own PR, and another contributor is always involved. We
usually don't do this in dist-git, but I'm quite sure that requiring
reviews for dist-git changes would raise quality and catch many silly
mistakes. Either way, it's nowadays possible to cooperate using a
single repo without fully trusting the other person, frictionlessly.


Good point. However, if there is a qe/devel team which prefers to
collaborate on tests in a separate repo because this is the most
efficient way they found so far, why should we stop them and try
to enforce a less efficient workflow? (Which they can workaround
by a different git repo.)


* I want to efficiently maintain tests long-term
* I want to have just a single place for my tests (no duplication)
* I don't want to backport new tests to old branches (enable once)
* I want to easily enable testing for all supported branches

Those four items depend strongly on the package. My thinking is
biased by some specific usecases (mainly systemd), but I'm sure many
other packages are like that: a lot of tests would be for new
functionality, and then the tests _are_ tied to the branch being
tested.

While I agree that keeping tests separate avoids a bit of effort
required to update multiple branches, this effort isn't very big. If
the tests indeed apply cleanly to all branches, then it's just a
matter of doing 'git merge' or 'git cherry-pick' once per branch.


* I want to keep rpms dist git clean (just metadata & patches)

Meh.


* I want to run all available relevant tests (not to list them)
* I want to execute set of tests based on a tag (e.g. Tier1)

Those two sound like stuff that should be solved in the tooling,
whatever is used to run tests.


* I want an easy way to clone tests (fedpkg clone tests/pkg)

Tests alone make no sense, you need something to test, and
cloning one repo is easier than cloning two repos, so there's no
advantage to the split here.


But "fedpkg clone tests" is easier than cloning from a "random"
git repository where I was forced to save my tests because I was
not allowed to save them in Fedora tests namespace.


I believe the tests namespace resolves them all.

None of those arguments convince me that separate repos for tests are
a good default. Sure, there are specific packages where this will make
sense, or specific packagers with idiosyncratic workflows, but I'd
rather "start small", with the simple configuration, and only move
specific packages to the more complicated setup once that proves to
be required.


Why default? Test namespace should be an option. Not the default.
Storing tests directly in dist git is and will be possible.
Anybody who finds this as a better way can do so. But why
enforcing this approach to all?


+1 Exactly! I don't really see any reason why to force people to follow 
one way when there are obvious disadvantages. All concerns against 
tests/ namespace in this thread are based on expectations that it won't 
work, but how can anybody know at this point? The only proof we have is 
that the tests/ namespace works internally.


I believe that what we really need here is flexibility -- let people 
find the way that works best for them.


Honza
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Re: New "tests" namespace to share test code

2018-02-14 Thread Honza Horak

On 02/14/2018 05:28 PM, Petr Šplíchal wrote:

Hi!

During the last days there have been concerns raised regarding
what is an appropriate content for the tests namespace. [1] My
original idea was to enable sharing tests even across branches of
the same component, not only for tests to be used by completely
different packages. The initial examples might have been a bit
misleading in this respect. One of the main points still holds:


  * Tests might follow a different branching pattern than the
dist-git repo, leading to code duplication


 From the feedback from developers I feel they always keep on mind
and care a lot about the maintenance costs. So it perfectly makes
sense to me if they want to keep and maintain tests in a separate
repo instead of merging/cherry-picking between dist-git branches.


+1

From my PoV, it makes perfect sense to share tests between branches, or 
between different versions of packages available in modules streams (soon).


Honza


When, for a particular package, it is the most efficient way to
maintain tests in a separate repo why should we discourage from
this approach? There are packages where it makes more sense to
store test code directly in dist-git. And it is still an option.
But why should we enforce this for all?

Please share your thoughts and real-life examples. For those who
are not familiar with the topic there is a new wiki page with a
summary of the Share Test Code approach [2].

psss...

[1] https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/6695
[2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CI/Share_Test_Code

On 7 December 2017 at 10:38, Petr Splichal  wrote:

Hi!

While working on adding CI tests [0] using the Standard Test
Interface a need arose to have a shared git repository where tests
could be stored:

  * A large number of test files makes a dist-git repository more
difficult to maintain

  * Tests might follow a different branching pattern than the
dist-git repo, leading to code duplication

  * Shared maintenance for tests sometimes benefits from different
access levels than the release dist-git repository

The plan is to create a new “tests” namespace in Fedora git/pagure
dedicated to storing the shared test code. To enable execution of
these tests by the CI pipeline, tests.yml file in dist-git will be
used to link the tests in the standard way as defined by the
Standard Test Interface [1].

This approach should help to efficiently maintain tests & minimize
test code duplication. Using a dedicated git repo for test code
also means to keep dist-git more as a place for storing metadata
only: Build metadata (spec file = how to build the package) and
test metadata (tests.yml = how to test the package) rather than
mixing spec files with test code itself.

Please note that this does not mean that all tests should now go
into this new namespace. You can still link tests directly from
upstream (like GitHub) or any other source. Also, for unit tests
it makes more sense to be kept directly with the project source
and executed there. Shared tests namespace in Fedora will be
suitable especially for functional and integration testing which
should help to continuously ensure the OS works as a whole.

For more detailed motivation and real-life examples see the Share
Test Code proposal on the Fedora CI list [2]. If you have any
questions or comments feel free to share them here or in the
pagure issue requesting the new namespace:

https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/6478

Thanks.

psss...

[0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CI
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/InvokingTests
[2] 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/c...@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/55U6V6UHA54MJLD2F6JF46EOLMVRUAE7/

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Re: Migration of the mailing-lists to Mailman3 and HyperKitty

2015-11-26 Thread Honza Horak
I have a feeling I just missed some information, so rather asking prior 
submitting a ticket to infra. The problem is that after the migration, 
I'm not able to login as mail-list admin to approve mails.


I get the mail notice that goes to 
env-and-stacks-ow...@lists.fedoraproject.org, so I understand it like I 
am tracked as owner. But following the link in the mail 
(https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/env-and-stacks.lists.fedoraproject.org/held_messages) 
reports 403.


Any idea what should I do differently or is that simply a bug?

Honza

On 11/10/2015 03:15 PM, Aurelien Bompard wrote:

Dear list users,

The Fedora Engineering team has been working on a new system for our
mailing lists. Mailman 3 came out earlier this year and it has a new
shiny web UI: HyperKitty.

The Fedora Hosted lists will be migrated on November 16th, and the
Fedora project lists later in the week. After migration you should be
able to use the new hyperkitty UI to post and read the lists if you
choose or continue to get emails in the traditional way.

There may be some changes in some headers, so if you filter your list
emails be ready to adjust your filters. See wiki page below for
details:

   http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailman3_Migration

Some lists using mailman2 features not yet available in mailman3 will
be migrated later. More information as well as current lists migrated,
being migrated and deferred for migration can be found at:

   http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailman3_Migration/Status

If you have any questions, feel free to ask on the infrastructure
list: infrastruct...@lists.fedoraproject.org.

If you find a problem or issue, please file a fedora infrastructure
ticket and we will work to fix things for your case or bug:
https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/


The Fedora Infrastructure team
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Looking for agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-10-15)

2015-10-15 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting should be at 17:00 UTC (13:00 EST, 19:00 Brno, 13:00 Boston, 
2:00+1d Tokyo, 3:00+1d Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =

* ??? do we have anything we want to talk about today?

Honza
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Looking for agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-10-08)

2015-10-07 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting should be at 12:00 UTC (9:00 EST, 14:00 Brno, 8:00 Boston, 
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =

* ??? do we have anything we want to talk about?

Honza
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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-10-01)

2015-10-01 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (9:00 EST, 14:00 Brno, 8:00 Boston, 
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =

* Fedora + CentOS docker images naming conventions

Honza
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Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-10-01)

2015-10-01 Thread Honza Horak

==
#fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-10-01)
==


Meeting started by hhorak at 17:00:27 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-10-01/env-and-stacks.2015-10-01-17.00.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* Fedora + CentOS docker images naming conventions  (hhorak, 17:04:59)
  * we're fine with namespaces: centos/ and fedora/ (nothing more needed
for now)  (hhorak, 17:09:09)
  * today on the mailing list, a conversation is going on to obselete
fedora-dockerfiles.  to be replaced with a dist-git process.
(hhorak, 17:10:50)
  * we should be fine with namespace/packagename:majorversion for
non-scl packages, distro seems to be irrelevant, because we usually
use one component in one container and don't care much about the
rest of the system in the container  (hhorak, 17:41:36)
  * LINK:
https://github.com/projectatomic/ContainerApplicationGenericLabels
(hhorak, 18:09:02)
  * IDEA: start using labels (at least name, version, maybe at least
optionally summary, description) as described at
https://github.com/projectatomic/ContainerApplicationGenericLabels
(hhorak, 18:15:42)
  * for the images coming from sclo at centos we need to talk to
openshift guys about whether centos needs to stay as suffix
(hhorak, 18:17:30)
  * ACTION: hhorak to apprach bparees with outcomes from today's
discussion  (hhorak, 18:18:19)

Meeting ended at 18:18:39 UTC.




Action Items

* hhorak to apprach bparees with outcomes from today's discussion




Action Items, by person
---
* hhorak
  * hhorak to apprach bparees with outcomes from today's discussion
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---
* Evolution (60)
* hhorak (59)
* scollier (42)
* jkaluza (10)
* jkaluza_ (6)
* zodbot (5)
* jkaluza__ (2)
* bkabrda (0)
* phracek (0)
* ttomecek (0)
* vpavlin (0)
* juhp (0)
* ncoghlan (0)
* walters (0)




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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-09-24)

2015-09-24 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (9:00 EST, 14:00 Brno, 8:00 Boston, 
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =

* Fedora dockerfiles -- versions, size, more involvement from E

* Software Collections use cases in semi-containerized world

Honza
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Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-09-24)

2015-09-24 Thread Honza Horak

==
#fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-09-24)
==


Meeting started by hhorak at 12:03:08 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-09-24/env-and-stacks.2015-09-24-12.03.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* Fedora dockerfiles -- versions, size, more involvement from E
  (hhorak, 12:04:30)
  * LINK: https://github.com/fedora-cloud/Fedora-Dockerfiles/pull/128
(hhorak, 12:07:28)
  * some PRs take too long to be merged in Fedora dockerfiles, let's
help Scott with that work..  (hhorak, 12:08:12)
  * ACTION: bkabrda to get in touch with scott tomorrow to see how he
can help him  (hhorak, 12:12:15)
  * LINK: http://imgur.com/TnpcouY   (vpavlin, 12:49:27)
  * LINK: http://imgur.com/TnpcouY   (vpavlin, 12:51:49)
  * it is possible to configure in docker hub what tags should be used
for automatically re(build) images (based on github branch and path)
(hhorak, 12:56:32)
  * every tag will require a new build on docker hub, but we can still
set up something like git-branch+path -> { docker-tag-a,
docker-tag-b } ... i will just create more builds than we'd
expect...  (hhorak, 13:15:08)
  * Product Definition Center is a dependency for triggering Docker
rebuilds on RPM updates  (ncoghlan, 13:17:49)
  * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/4863
(ncoghlan, 13:17:59)
  * ACTION: vpavlin will setup a demo process and document how we can
build the versioned dockerfiles in from
https://github.com/fedora-cloud/Fedora-Dockerfiles  (hhorak,
13:18:28)

* open-floor  (hhorak, 13:21:31)
  * ACTION: hhorak to touch other topics (not covered today) on ML
(hhorak, 13:22:00)
  * LINK:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Projects/ImageAssemblyRecommendations
(hhorak, 13:25:56)
  * Layered images are special, since they're the ones that can bring in
additional non-RPM bits (gem, maven); 1-to-1 mirrors for those could
be implemented by RepoFunnel building on Pulp, but it's still not
sure whether this middle step is necessary  (hhorak, 13:36:25)
  * fedora rel-eng plans to build at least the cockpit layered image for
f24 and potentially others  (hhorak, 13:42:38)

Meeting ended at 13:43:33 UTC.




Action Items

* bkabrda to get in touch with scott tomorrow to see how he can help him
* vpavlin will setup a demo process and document how we can build the
  versioned dockerfiles in from
  https://github.com/fedora-cloud/Fedora-Dockerfiles
* hhorak to touch other topics (not covered today) on ML




Action Items, by person
---
* bkabrda
  * bkabrda to get in touch with scott tomorrow to see how he can help
him
* hhorak
  * hhorak to touch other topics (not covered today) on ML
* vpavlin
  * vpavlin will setup a demo process and document how we can build the
versioned dockerfiles in from
https://github.com/fedora-cloud/Fedora-Dockerfiles
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---
* hhorak (91)
* vpavlin (64)
* ncoghlan (53)
* bkabrda (26)
* praiskup (21)
* jkaluza (16)
* langdon (15)
* ttomecek (11)
* dgilmore (5)
* zodbot (4)
* phracek (1)
* juhp (0)
* walters (0)




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No agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting -> no meeting? (2015-09-17)

2015-09-17 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting should be at 17:00 UTC (13:00 EST, 19:00 Brno, 13:00 Boston, 
2:00+1d Tokyo, 3:00+1d Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


However, there is no agenda proposed.. If there is something we should 
cover on the meeting, let me know asap... otherwise we can skip this week.


Honza
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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-09-10)

2015-09-10 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (9:00 EST, 14:00 Brno, 8:00 Boston, 
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =

* Developer portal -- whatever is needed for finalizing

* RepoFunnel and the Software Component Pipeline -- any feedback

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-August/000902.html

* User level package management -- looking for AI

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-August/000884.html

Note: Deliberately omitting Langdon's agenda proposed few weeks back, 
since I don't expect Langdon today (but we can operatively add this in 
case he comes):

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-August/000887.html

Honza
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Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-09-10)

2015-09-10 Thread Honza Horak

==
#fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-09-10)
==


Meeting started by hhorak at 12:01:04 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-09-10/env-and-stacks.2015-09-10-12.01.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* Developer portal -- whatever is needed for finalizing  (hhorak,
  12:04:47)
  * ttomecek is still waiting to get some stuff merged to
Fedora-Dockerfiles  (hhorak, 12:09:30)
  * LINK: http://developer.fedorainfracloud.org/   (hhorak, 12:10:11)
  * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/4876
(hhorak, 12:10:19)
  * work still to be done: packaging ruby packages (about 20)  (hhorak,
12:11:29)
  * content that is still missing to be able to deploy the developer
portal: docker, devassistant, python, a basic guide for openshift
(hhorak, 12:22:43)
  * IDEA: to have linking to some categories on fedora ask matching the
topic on Developer portal, like python, ruby, vagrant.. for example
link from Python content could point to ask with python tag
(hhorak, 12:24:14)
  * developer portal should have some link at getfedora.org  (hhorak,
12:32:58)

* RepoFunnel and the Software Component Pipeline -- any feedback
  (hhorak, 12:33:39)
  * LINK:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Projects/SoftwareComponentPipeline
(vpavlin, 12:36:12)
  * LINK: https://github.com/ncoghlan/repofunnel   (ncoghlan, 12:36:25)
  * LINK:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Projects/SoftwareComponentPipeline
(vpavlin, 12:36:32)
  * ACTION: everybody look more closely to the SoftwareComponentPipeline
proposal and let's provide feedback/additional questions on ML
(hhorak, 12:38:45)

* User level package management -- looking for AI  (hhorak, 12:39:37)
  * LINK:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-August/000884.html
(hhorak, 12:41:17)
  * the perspective on that changed recently, ncoghlan more focusing on
*enabling* it better; trusting devs building *on* Fedora to make up
their own minds about whether or not to consume upstream package
repos directly  (hhorak, 12:45:46)
  * for *distro* components, focus on automating the upstream -> SRPM
pipeline and removing any manual steps ; for *custom* apps running
*on* Fedora/RHEL/CentOS, provide the tools, provide repo hosting
support in Pulp, but don't try to inject ourselves into the package
review process  (hhorak, 12:48:03)
  * LINK:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Mizdebsk/FedoraMavenRepository
(hhorak, 12:53:35)

* Open floor?  (hhorak, 13:04:18)

Meeting ended at 13:11:10 UTC.




Action Items

* everybody look more closely to the SoftwareComponentPipeline proposal
  and let's provide feedback/additional questions on ML




Action Items, by person
---
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * everybody look more closely to the SoftwareComponentPipeline
proposal and let's provide feedback/additional questions on ML




People Present (lines said)
---
* hhorak (56)
* ncoghlan (29)
* vpavlin (21)
* asamalik (16)
* jstribny (15)
* phracek (9)
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Volunteer to organize Env-and-Stacks WG meeting this week? (2015-09-03)

2015-09-01 Thread Honza Horak
I'm sorry but I'm not able to organize the WG meeting this week. If 
somebody else is volunteering to organize the meeting (which should be 
at 5pm UTC this week), feel free to do so.


Honza
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Volunteer to organize Env-and-Stacks WG meeting this week? (2015-08-27)

2015-08-26 Thread Honza Horak
I know about 3 guys not being able to attend the meeting tomorrow, 
including me. If somebody else is volunteering to organize the meeting 
(which should be at 12pm UTC this week), feel free to do so. Otherwise, 
consider this week canceled.


Honza
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[Base] Agenda item proposal for next meeting

2015-08-21 Thread Honza Horak
On yesterday's Env  Stacks meeting [1] we agreed ES WG needs talk with 
Base WG about ring0 and ring1 and how to cooperation will look like. I'd 
like to ask to add this item on the agenda on next meeting.


The next meeting should be this Monday, right?

[1] 
http://meetbot-raw.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-08-20/env-and-stacks.2015-08-20-17.00.txt


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Re: Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-08-20)

2015-08-20 Thread Honza Horak
I've missed Langdon's points for today's meeting, proposed to ML. Since 
they seem to me more important, let me adjust the topic list, while 
prioritizing the Langdon's items:


Topics:

* how to invite the conversation to es
* what the output of es would be
* how to ensure that es is the place for these conversations in the future
* Rings and modules
  - how/where to track and document this as real project (Taiga.io?)
  - rings definition by description?
- purpose of that particular ring (benefits from user's PoV)
- expectations from content in each ring (2-3 examples of parts 
(format, content))

- who are users of the particular ring
* Open Floor

Honza

On 08/20/2015 10:38 AM, Honza Horak wrote:

WG meeting will be at 17:00 UTC (13:00 EST, 19:00 Brno, 13:00 Boston,
2:00+1d Tokyo, 3:00+1d Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.

= Topics =

* Rings and modules
   - how/where to track and document this as real project (Taiga.io?)
   - rings definition by description?
 - purpose of that particular ring (benefits from user's PoV)
 - expectations from content in each ring (2-3 examples of parts
(format, content))
 - who are users of the particular ring
* Open Floor


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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-08-20)

2015-08-20 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 17:00 UTC (13:00 EST, 19:00 Brno, 13:00 Boston, 
2:00+1d Tokyo, 3:00+1d Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =

* Rings and modules
  - how/where to track and document this as real project (Taiga.io?)
  - rings definition by description?
- purpose of that particular ring (benefits from user's PoV)
- expectations from content in each ring (2-3 examples of parts 
(format, content))

- who are users of the particular ring
* Open Floor

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Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-08-20)

2015-08-20 Thread Honza Horak

==
#fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-08-20)
==


Meeting started by hhorak at 17:00:55 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-08-20/env-and-stacks.2015-08-20-17.00.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* greetings..  (hhorak, 17:01:10)

* how to invite the conversation to es  (hhorak, 17:03:11)
  * it is a matter of outreach, there are a number of stack-like
technologies being pursued in the Edition Working Groups; we want to
avoid duplicated/conflicting effort.  (hhorak, 17:07:34)
  * The general consensus in the room on Flock was that ES should help
define some of the boundaries of the rings, and possibly come up
with a better name than rings since it breaks down at higher levels
(hhorak, 17:09:04)
  * But ES shouldn't dictate the details of each ring- those should be
forwarded on to more appropriate WG's  (hhorak, 17:09:22)
  * es should recommend available technologies for implementing rings
which base would then include (probably) in r0  r1.. available to
all the editions and higher rings  (hhorak, 17:10:10)
  * this is all about creating policies in which development communities
can find the natural fit; various groups involved in xdg-app,
docker, rolekit, nulecule, etc may move the discussions to es since
the interaction between those policy groups is where ES seems to
fit in  (hhorak, 17:16:39)
  * ACTION: hhorak to send agenda item for tomorrow's base meeting about
owning r0/1 with guidelines from es  (hhorak, 17:46:41)
  * we can think about which tool to track the rings and fedora stuff
later, but short-term, wiki should be fine enough  (hhorak,
17:59:11)

Meeting ended at 18:00:30 UTC.




Action Items

* hhorak to send agenda item for tomorrow's base meeting about owning
  r0/1 with guidelines from es




Action Items, by person
---
* hhorak
  * hhorak to send agenda item for tomorrow's base meeting about owning
r0/1 with guidelines from es
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---
* bconoboy (55)
* hhorak (50)
* langdon (48)
* zodbot (7)
* sgallagh (2)
* bkabrda (0)
* phracek (0)
* ttomecek (0)
* vpavlin (0)
* juhp (0)
* ncoghlan (0)
* jkaluza (0)
* walters (0)




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No Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-08-13)

2015-08-07 Thread Honza Horak
There will be FLOCK already going the next Thursday, so many people are 
not available. Let's skip the meeting.


Honza
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Re: Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-08-06)

2015-08-06 Thread Honza Horak

On 08/06/2015 11:59 AM, Honza Horak wrote:

WG meeting will be at 17:00 UTC (13:00 EST, 19:00 Brno, 13:00 Boston,
2:00+1d Tokyo, 3:00+1d Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.

= Topics =

* RHEL.next and how communicate between containers / stacks


Of course it should be Fedora.next, sorry for copypaste error of former 
typing error.


Honza


* Rings in Fedora 24 - documentation would be awesome
* Taiga.io - could it be used to track features/projects and it's progress?
* Open Floor

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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-08-06)

2015-08-06 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 17:00 UTC (13:00 EST, 19:00 Brno, 13:00 Boston, 
2:00+1d Tokyo, 3:00+1d Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =

* RHEL.next and how communicate between containers / stacks
* Rings in Fedora 24 - documentation would be awesome
* Taiga.io - could it be used to track features/projects and it's progress?
* Open Floor

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Re: Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-08-06)

2015-08-06 Thread Honza Horak
Meeting started at #fedora-meeting-1, we had collision at 
#fedora-meeting-2..


Honza

On 08/06/2015 11:59 AM, Honza Horak wrote:

WG meeting will be at 17:00 UTC (13:00 EST, 19:00 Brno, 13:00 Boston,
2:00+1d Tokyo, 3:00+1d Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.

= Topics =

* Fedora.next and how communicate between containers / stacks
* Rings in Fedora 24 - documentation would be awesome
* Taiga.io - could it be used to track features/projects and it's progress?
* Open Floor

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Re: Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-08-06)

2015-08-06 Thread Honza Horak

Canceled, only phracek and me showed up..
Honza

On 08/06/2015 07:07 PM, Honza Horak wrote:

Meeting started at #fedora-meeting-1, we had collision at
#fedora-meeting-2..

Honza

On 08/06/2015 11:59 AM, Honza Horak wrote:

WG meeting will be at 17:00 UTC (13:00 EST, 19:00 Brno, 13:00 Boston,
2:00+1d Tokyo, 3:00+1d Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.

= Topics =

* Fedora.next and how communicate between containers / stacks
* Rings in Fedora 24 - documentation would be awesome
* Taiga.io - could it be used to track features/projects and it's
progress?
* Open Floor

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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-07-09)

2015-07-08 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 17:00 UTC (13:00 EST, 19:00 Brno, 13:00 Boston, 
2:00+1d Tokyo, 3:00+1d Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =

* Progress and goals for f23 and f24 
(https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-May/000786.html)

* Open Floor

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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-07-02)

2015-07-02 Thread Honza Horak

A bit late announce, sorry for that, but I was offline for couple of days.

WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (9:00 EST, 14:00 Brno, 8:00 Boston, 
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =

* New meeting time?
* Elections wrap-up
* Changes in governance
* Fedora user feedback
* Open Floor

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Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-07-02)

2015-07-02 Thread Honza Horak

==
#fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-07-02)
==


Meeting started by hhorak at 12:02:14 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-07-02/env-and-stacks.2015-07-02-12.02.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* init process  (hhorak, 12:04:42)

* New meeting time?  (hhorak, 12:07:54)
  * jkaluza is fine with current time-slots, so we don't need to find
new time-slots for meeting  (hhorak, 12:10:23)

* Elections wrap-up  (hhorak, 12:11:01)

* Changes in governance charter  (hhorak, 12:15:56)
  * LINK:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Governance_Charter
(hhorak, 12:16:10)
  * ACTION: all to reflect on the Governance Charter and propose changes
on ML if there is anything worth changin  (hhorak, 12:22:42)

* Fedora users feedback  (hhorak, 12:26:52)
  * LINK: http://piratepad.net/env-and-stacks-users-feedback   (hhorak,
12:27:36)
  * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/council/ticket/26   (hhorak,
12:32:47)
  * LINK: https://www.limesurvey.org/en/   (hhorak, 12:44:56)
  * limesurvey.org is the default open source option  (hhorak, 12:45:13)
  * other not so open source are: https://www.keysurvey.com/
https://www.google.com/forms https://www.surveymonkey.com/  (hhorak,
12:46:59)
  * ACTION: hhorak to ask other wgs about what are their plans for
feedback gathering  (hhorak, 13:10:56)
  * ACTION: langdon to ask council about whether the recurring
questions would make sense  (hhorak, 13:13:11)

* open floor  (hhorak, 13:13:49)
  * LINK:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-May/000786.html
(hhorak, 13:22:00)
  * ACTION: all to think about update on our area's progress and goals
for f23 and f24.. send it to ML until this Monday, 10 EST, if it
should be mentioned on the council meeting..  (hhorak, 13:29:50)

Meeting ended at 13:33:04 UTC.




Action Items

* all to reflect on the Governance Charter and propose changes on ML if
  there is anything worth changin
* hhorak to ask other wgs about what are their plans for feedback
  gathering
* langdon to ask council about whether the recurring questions would
  make sense
* all to think about update on our area's progress and goals for f23 and
  f24.. send it to ML until this Monday, 10 EST, if it should be
  mentioned on the council meeting..




Action Items, by person
---
* hhorak
  * hhorak to ask other wgs about what are their plans for feedback
gathering
* langdon
  * langdon to ask council about whether the recurring questions would
make sense
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * all to reflect on the Governance Charter and propose changes on ML
if there is anything worth changin
  * all to think about update on our area's progress and goals for f23
and f24.. send it to ML until this Monday, 10 EST, if it should be
mentioned on the council meeting..




People Present (lines said)
---
* hhorak (70)
* ncoghlan (39)
* jkaluza (25)
* langdon (15)
* phracek (7)
* zodbot (5)
* ttomecek (1)
* jzeleny_ (1)
* handsome_pirate (1)
* ttomecek1 (1)
* bkabrda (0)
* vpavlin (0)
* juhp (0)
* walters (0)




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Skip Env-and-Stacks WG meeting? (2015-06-25)

2015-06-24 Thread Honza Horak
hey guys, I'm not available tomorrow and I know about couple of people 
that are not either. So, I'm proposing to skip tomorrow's meeting, 
unless someone else volunteers to organize one.


Btw. don't forget to vote in the Env  Stacks and other elections :)

Honza
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Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-06-18)

2015-06-19 Thread Honza Horak

==
#fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-06-18)
==


Meeting started by hhorak1 at 12:00:23 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-06-18/env-and-stacks.2015-06-18-12.00.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* init process  (hhorak1, 12:01:04)

* Fedora layered docker images  (hhorak, 12:11:18)
  * LINK: https://github.com/fedora-cloud/Fedora-Dockerfiles/   (hhorak,
12:11:39)
  * LINK:
http://jasonwilder.com/blog/2014/08/19/squashing-docker-images/
(hhorak, 12:13:26)
  * LINK: https://github.com/goldmann/docker-scripts   (ttomecek,
12:14:34)
  * LINK: https://github.com/docker/docker/pull/13929   (ttomecek,
12:17:25)
  * docker-squash have issues, while docker-scripts doesn't and it is
proved in practice already  (hhorak, 12:20:45)
  * LINK:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Layered_Docker_Image_Build_Service
(ttomecek, 12:21:47)
  * Use dockerfile_lint prior the build to check the Dockerfile
(vpavlin, 12:55:24)

* testing of fedora layered docker images -- where to keep tests
  (hhorak, 12:56:13)
  * LINK:
https://github.com/fedora-cloud/Fedora-Dockerfiles/tree/master/mariadb
- mkdir tests  (vpavlin, 12:57:21)
  * at least for start we'll have the general tests (or meta tests and
steps) under https://github.com/Containers-Testing-Framework/ and
package-specific parts near the dockerfiles
(https://github.com/fedora-cloud/Fedora-Dockerfiles/), in tests
sub-directory  (hhorak, 13:07:53)
  * docker images tests will test just the image itself, rpms will be
tested before image build already..  (hhorak, 13:08:39)
  * there will probably be specific tests e.g. for mariadb, since for
example environment variables which the image accepts to initialize
the database are specific for every database (another example is
mongodb that has different authentication mechanism than
postgresql/mariadb, which needs to be mirrored in the image's API)
(hhorak, 13:15:36)
  * but we should try to make the tests be generic as much as possible
(hhorak, 13:15:36)

* Open Floor  (hhorak, 13:16:36)

Meeting ended at 13:18:32 UTC.




Action Items






Action Items, by person
---
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---
* hhorak (58)
* vpavlin (40)
* langdon (38)
* ttomecek (29)
* zodbot (6)
* hhorak1 (5)
* bkabrda (4)
* phracek (0)
* sicampbell (0)
* juhp (0)
* ncoghlan (0)
* walters (0)




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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-06-18)

2015-06-17 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (9:00 EST, 14:00 Brno, 8:00 Boston, 
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =

* Fedora Docker images
 - enhances: squashing, removing yum update
 - https://github.com/projectatomic/ContainerApplicationGenericLabels
 - testing -- where to keep tests

* Open Floor

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Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-06-11)

2015-06-11 Thread Honza Horak

==
#fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-06-11)
==


Meeting started by hhorak at 17:00:29 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-06-11/env-and-stacks.2015-06-11-17.00.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* greetings  (hhorak, 17:00:49)

* EnvStacks elections -- what questions to ask the candidates?
  (hhorak, 17:04:27)
  * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections/Questionnaire
(hhorak, 17:04:41)
  * new question What interests you from Env and Stacks, and which
projects would you contribute to?  (hhorak, 17:12:12)
  * let's also steal question from Council I've What are the most
pressing issues facing Fedora today? What should we do about them?
(hhorak, 17:14:33)
  * ACTION: gathering feedback from users  (hhorak, 17:19:44)
  * LINK: http://piratepad.net/env-and-stacks-users-feedback   (hhorak,
17:20:07)
  * ACTION: all to check and brainstorm at
http://piratepad.net/env-and-stacks-users-feedback about what
feedback we'd like to get from fedora users, we'll pick some good
questions later  (hhorak, 17:21:50)
  * ACTION: Council Engineering update  (hhorak, 17:22:15)
  * LINK:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Layered_Docker_Image_Build_Service
(hhorak, 17:26:11)
  * ACTION: Fedora-DockerFiles and behave to Fedora 23 as
ChangeProposal.  (phracek, 17:34:58)
  * LINK: https://github.com/containers-tools/cct   (hhorak, 17:47:06)

* RHSCL Docker images compatibility with Fedora/Atomic use cases
  (hhorak, 17:50:33)
  * LINK: http://www.projectatomic.io/docs/   (hhorak, 17:59:12)

* open floor  (hhorak, 17:59:45)
  * LINK:
https://github.com/projectatomic/ContainerApplicationGenericLabels
(hhorak, 18:03:01)

Meeting ended at 18:17:38 UTC.




Action Items

* gathering feedback from users
* all to check and brainstorm at
  http://piratepad.net/env-and-stacks-users-feedback about what feedback
  we'd like to get from fedora users, we'll pick some good questions
  later
* Council Engineering update
* Fedora-DockerFiles and behave to Fedora 23 as ChangeProposal.




Action Items, by person
---
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * gathering feedback from users
  * all to check and brainstorm at
http://piratepad.net/env-and-stacks-users-feedback about what
feedback we'd like to get from fedora users, we'll pick some good
questions later
  * Council Engineering update
  * Fedora-DockerFiles and behave to Fedora 23 as ChangeProposal.




People Present (lines said)
---
* hhorak (74)
* phracek (40)
* walters (17)
* sgallagh (14)
* zodbot (4)
* bkabrda (0)
* ttomecek (0)
* sicampbell (0)
* vpavlin (0)
* juhp (0)
* ncoghlan (0)




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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-06-11)

2015-06-10 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 17:00 UTC (13:00 EST, 19:00 Brno, 13:00 Boston, 
2:00+1d Tokyo, 3:00+1d Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =

* EnvStacks elections -- what questions to ask the candidates?
(https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections/Questionnaire)

* gathering feedback from users

(https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-June/000809.html)

* Council Engineering update -- what topic we should we focus on as 
Fedora 23/24 goals 
(https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-May/000786.html)


* RHSCL Docker images compatibility with Fedora/Atomic use cases (are 
SCL images as developed under 
https://github.com/sclorg/rhscl2dockerfile/ usable in fedora/atomic or 
do we search for something different?)


* Open Floor

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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-06-04)

2015-06-04 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (9:00 EST, 14:00 Brno, 8:00 Boston, 
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =

* Elections and charter enhances

* Council Engineering update 
(https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-May/000786.html)


* Fedora Dockerfiles co-maintenance

* RHSCL Docker images compatibility with Fedora/Atomic use cases (are 
SCL images as developed under 
https://github.com/sclorg/rhscl2dockerfile/ usable in fedora/atomic or 
do we search for something different?)


* Open Floor

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Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-06-04)

2015-06-04 Thread Honza Horak

==
#fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-06-04)
==


Meeting started by hhorak at 11:59:32 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-06-04/env-and-stacks.2015-06-04-11.59.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* greetings  (hhorak, 11:59:37)

* Elections and charter enhances  (hhorak, 12:02:29)
  * ACTION: hhorak to talk to jkurik about WG elections  (hhorak,
12:21:35)
  * fesco elections nomination is scheduled to June 08-14  (hhorak,
12:21:57)

* Council Engineering update  (hhorak, 12:45:11)
  * LINK:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-May/000786.html
(hhorak, 12:51:21)
  * IDEA: ncoghlan for F23: provide the nix package manager for language
independent user level package management (using the upstream Nix
repos, as we do with language specific tools).  (hhorak, 13:02:25)
  * Aleph proposal is the one that would need a *lot* of discussion with
other WGs  (hhorak, 13:05:14)
  * LINK:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-June/000796.html
(hhorak, 13:05:43)

Meeting ended at 13:07:30 UTC.




Action Items

* hhorak to talk to jkurik about WG elections




Action Items, by person
---
* hhorak
  * hhorak to talk to jkurik about WG elections
* jkurik
  * hhorak to talk to jkurik about WG elections
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---
* hhorak (60)
* juhp_ (41)
* ncoghlan (23)
* phracek (12)
* langdon (10)
* vpavlin (8)
* bkabrda (7)
* zodbot (5)
* jkurik (5)
* ttomecek (0)
* sicampbell (0)
* juhp (0)
* walters (0)




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Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-05-28)

2015-05-28 Thread Honza Horak

==
#fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-05-28)
==


Meeting started by hhorak at 17:00:56 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-05-28/env-and-stacks.2015-05-28-17.00.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* greetings..  (hhorak, 17:01:28)

* how to gather feedback from users? who are our users?  (hhorak,
  17:08:23)
  * LINK:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-May/000783.html
(hhorak, 17:09:39)
  * ACTION: hhorak to initiate a list of questions our WG want all
editions to ask.. and will share a link to some collaborative tool..
(hhorak, 17:36:44)

* Council Engineering update  (hhorak, 17:38:04)
  * LINK:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-May/000786.html
(hhorak, 17:38:11)
  * Think about if it would be possible to auto-enable  install copr
repos: dnf awesome-copr-auto-enable-install-plugin rhscl/httpd24
(vpavlin, 18:01:11)
  * IDEA: copr to have option to specify the main package from the copr
repo, so it may be installed as soon as user says `dnf copr-install
rhscl/httpd24`  (hhorak, 18:02:22)
  * IDEA: to prioritize few items from the whole WG's task list and set
a concrete goals for F23/F24 based on it..  (hhorak, 18:08:06)
  * IDEA: for now, playground is launched tomorrow by way of a dnf
plugin called playground .. which in fact just recognizes a very
small list of copr repos.. over time, the list of copr repos grow..
eventually.. the formal playground repo comes online...  (hhorak,
18:15:38)
  * ACTION: everybody to think about which of the tasks we make goals
from for F23/F24  (hhorak, 18:18:37)
  * ACTION: everybody to think about and write up questions that we want
to ask users of editions  (hhorak, 18:18:38)

Meeting ended at 18:19:16 UTC.




Action Items

* hhorak to initiate a list of questions our WG want all editions to
  ask.. and will share a link to some collaborative tool..
* everybody to think about which of the tasks we make goals from for
  F23/F24
* everybody to think about and write up questions that we want to ask
  users of editions




Action Items, by person
---
* hhorak
  * hhorak to initiate a list of questions our WG want all editions to
ask.. and will share a link to some collaborative tool..
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * everybody to think about which of the tasks we make goals from for
F23/F24
  * everybody to think about and write up questions that we want to ask
users of editions




People Present (lines said)
---
* hhorak (57)
* langdon (37)
* vpavlin (36)
* zodbot (4)
* bowlofeggs (3)
* bkabrda (0)
* phracek (0)
* ttomecek (0)
* sicampbell (0)
* juhp (0)
* ncoghlan (0)
* walters (0)




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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-05-28)

2015-05-28 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 17:00 UTC (13:00 EST, 19:00 Brno, 13:00 Boston, 
2:00+1d Tokyo, 3:00+1d Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =

* Continue discussion about Fedora Rings -- how to gather feedback from 
users? who are our users? 
(https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-May/000783.html)


* Council Engineering update 
(https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-May/000786.html)


* RHSCL Docker images compatibility with Fedora/Atomic use cases (are 
SCL images as developed under 
https://github.com/sclorg/rhscl2dockerfile/ usable in fedora/atomic or 
do we search for something different?)


* Open Floor

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Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-05-21)

2015-05-22 Thread Honza Horak

==
#fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-05-21)
==


Meeting started by hhorak at 12:03:27 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-05-21/env-and-stacks.2015-05-21-12.03.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* init process  (hhorak, 12:03:51)

* Follow-ups, if any progress has been made  (hhorak, 12:05:29)
  * as for docker images and dockerfiles, I already mentioned it, but
would like to do it again :) there are interesting discussions
taking place under https://github.com/sclorg/rhscl2dockerfile/ where
we try to define nice images for rhscl, but the same API we'd like
to move also into Fedora-dockerfiles very soon... praiskup already
started with postgres..  (hhorak, 12:07:48)
  * Scott said that he can approve as a co-maintainer anyone who can
help him with updating docker files to the latest one  (hhorak,
12:08:15)
  * LINK:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-May/000789.html
(phracek, 12:14:45)
  * LINK: https://github.com/sclorg/rhscl-dockerfiles   (hhorak,
12:16:21)
  * LINK:
https://github.com/openshift/postgresql/blob/master/9.2/test/run
(phracek, 12:21:01)

* Install only packages to prevent 3rd party app breakage (see ML for
  more info)  (phracek, 12:23:03)
  * LINK:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-May/000787.html
(phracek, 12:23:37)

* Council Engineering update (see ML for more info)  (phracek, 12:34:42)
  * LINK:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-May/000786.html
(phracek, 12:35:04)
  * Fedora Enginnering Update meeting is 7th July  (phracek, 12:36:44)

* https://fedorahosted.org/council/ticket/26 -- gathering feedback from
  users  (phracek, 12:38:48)
  * ACTION: langdon will create a new ticket with updates from
https://fedorahosted.org/council/ticket/26  (phracek, 12:43:17)

* Env  Stacks Elections after F22  (phracek, 12:45:53)

* Open Floor  (phracek, 12:49:31)

Meeting ended at 12:51:56 UTC.




Action Items

* langdon will create a new ticket with updates from
  https://fedorahosted.org/council/ticket/26




Action Items, by person
---
* langdon
  * langdon will create a new ticket with updates from
https://fedorahosted.org/council/ticket/26
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---
* phracek (52)
* hhorak (17)
* bkabrda1 (10)
* langdon (7)
* zodbot (4)
* ttomecek (2)
* vondruch (1)
* hhorak1 (1)
* bkabrda (0)
* sicampbell (0)
* vpavlin (0)
* juhp (0)
* ncoghlan (0)
* walters (0)




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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-05-21)

2015-05-21 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (9:00 EST, 14:00 Brno, 8:00 Boston, 
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =
* Follow-ups, if any progress has been made
* Install only packages to prevent 3rd party app breakage (see ML for 
more info)

* Council Engineering update (see ML for more info)
* https://fedorahosted.org/council/ticket/26 -- gathering feedback from 
users

* Env  Stacks Elections after F22
* Open Floor

I'll need to leave during the meeting for approx. 30 min. but I guess 
I'm not necessary to be present whole time, there seem to be enough to 
be discussed today.


Honza
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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-05-14)

2015-05-14 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 17:00 UTC (13:00 EST, 19:00 Brno, 13:00 Boston, 
2:00+1d Tokyo, 3:00+1d Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =
* Anything related to yesterday's meeting about Fedora Project Planning 
Tools


http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2015-05-13/infra-releng-crossteam.2015-05-13-14.00.html
* Continue discussion about Fedora Rings -- how to make Fedora more modular
* Docker images tips from SCL vs. OpenShift discussions
* Open Floor

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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-05-07)

2015-05-07 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (9:00 EST, 14:00 Brno, 8:00 Boston, 
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =
* Follow-ups, if any progress has been made
* Docker images building within Fedora
* Containers-Testing-Framework
* Open Floor

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Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-04-23)

2015-04-23 Thread Honza Horak

==
#fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-04-23)
==


Meeting started by hhorak at 12:04:01 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-04-23/env-and-stacks.2015-04-23-12.04.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* init process  (hhorak, 12:04:31)

* Dockerfiles recommended tips  (hhorak, 12:05:41)
  * LINK:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-April/000771.html
(hhorak, 12:06:07)
  * a problem any major changes to the base image like this is the
possibility of breaking layers  (hhorak, 12:40:40)
  * openshift has a higher level system that's in a position to do uid
allocation  (hhorak, 12:40:40)
  * IDEA: one simple thing to do would be to make a
fedora/envs-and-stacks-base image that has this default user, and
derive Docker-like language base images from that  (hhorak,
12:40:41)
  * IDEA: or we can just document best practices for user management in
derived containers  (hhorak, 12:40:41)
  * LINK:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/docker-user/946c4tetS6E
(hhorak, 12:43:49)

* Playground result repo  (hhorak, 12:44:58)
  * still not sure whether the playground repo should be updated set of
copr repo files on clients or one repo regenerated on server
(hhorak, 12:47:32)
  * looking for a tool that will (simply said) check that we don't ship
some package in playground that would influence packages in the
fedora base (by influencing I mean upgrade, prevent to install, ...)
(hhorak, 12:52:59)
  * for other volunteers :) another task would be copr vs. taskotron vs.
rpmgrill integration.. a coplex thing, that may consist of: 1) make
rpmgrill working in taskotron 2) make rpmgrill to work with copr
(now tight to koji pretty much) 3) make taskotron to listen and
react on copr builds  (hhorak, 13:07:03)
  * we still do not have agreement with msuchy on the ML about whether
the playground repo should be updated set of copr repo files on
clients or one repo regenerated on server... let's try to narrow
that down  (hhorak, 13:08:46)
  * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Taskotron/Tasks/depcheck
(hhorak, 13:09:27)

* Modular Fedora -- more versions available, not necessarily
  install-able  (hhorak, 13:09:58)
  * ACTION: everybody to follow the ML and try to actively participate
:)  (hhorak, 13:15:54)

* open floor  (hhorak, 13:16:22)
  * LINK:
http://download.eng.brq.redhat.com/scratch/phracek/landing_page.png
(phracek, 13:19:14)
  * LINK:
http://download.eng.brq.redhat.com/scratch/phracek/project_page.png
(phracek, 13:19:22)

* Chair for next week (hhorak not available)  (hhorak, 13:23:59)
  * no volunteer found for the next week's meeting, so we're still
looking for one  (hhorak, 13:28:32)

Meeting ended at 13:28:43 UTC.




Action Items

* everybody to follow the ML and try to actively participate :)




Action Items, by person
---
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * everybody to follow the ML and try to actively participate :)




People Present (lines said)
---
* hhorak (68)
* phracek (44)
* walters (16)
* bkabrda (14)
* langdon (9)
* jstanek (8)
* ttomecek (5)
* zodbot (5)
* vpavlin (1)
* ttomecek1 (1)
* sicampbell (0)
* juhp (0)
* ncoghlan (0)




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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-04-23)

2015-04-22 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (9:00 EST, 14:00 Brno, 8:00 Boston, 
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =
* Follow-ups
  * Playground result repo 
(https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2015-April/000770.html)

  * Dockerfiles recommended tips (user, logs)
* Modular Fedora -- more versions available, not necessarily install-able
* Chair for next week (hhorak not available)
* Open Floor

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Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-04-16)

2015-04-16 Thread Honza Horak

==
#fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-04-16)
==


Meeting started by hhorak at 17:04:24 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-04-16/env-and-stacks.2015-04-16-17.04.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* modular fedora next  (hhorak, 17:05:32)
  * LINK: http://mattdm.org/fedora/2015status/rings2015.svg   (mattdm,
17:07:23)
  * LINK:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Objectives/Fedora_Editions,_Phase_2
(mattdm, 17:08:47)
  * LINK:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2014-December/011211.html
(mattdm, 17:13:49)
  * jwb ostree helps with a lot of things that just plain RPM doesn't
(mattdm, 17:14:12)
  * rpm-ostree layering capabilities seem really important to this plan
(mattdm, 17:17:22)
  * LINK: https://github.com/alexlarsson/xdg-app   (vpavlin, 17:20:17)
  * xdg-app is basically a technology to sandbox a gui application (very
briefly said)  (hhorak, 17:22:24)
  * (different speeds): mattdm I think we need some specific use cases
for things moving at different speeds and a picture of what that'd
look like  (walters, 17:26:03)
  * oddly enough i'd like to leverage rpm-ostree to make fedora much
less broken. we shouldn't be used to it -- jwb  (mattdm, 17:29:37)
  * LINK:

https://lists.projectatomic.io/projectatomic-archives/atomic-devel/2014-October/msg2.html
(walters, 18:27:34)

Meeting ended at 18:34:26 UTC.




Action Items






Action Items, by person
---
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---
* jwb (73)
* phracek (48)
* langdon (48)
* hhorak (43)
* mattdm (37)
* walters (31)
* vpavlin (20)
* zodbot (4)
* mclasen_ (3)
* sgallagh (2)
* bkabrda (0)
* ttomecek (0)
* sicampbell (0)
* juhp (0)
* ncoghlan (0)




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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-04-16)

2015-04-15 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 17:00 UTC (13:00 EST, 19:00 Brno, 13:00 Boston, 
2:00+1d Tokyo, 3:00+1d Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =
* Fedora Rings -- how to make Fedora more modular
* Open Floor

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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-04-09)

2015-04-09 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (9:00 EST, 14:00 Brno, 8:00 Boston, 
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =
* Follow-ups Dockah
  * Dockerfiles recommended tips
  * Dockerfile lint
  * Dockerfiles revisiting
* Open Floor

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Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-04-09)

2015-04-09 Thread Honza Horak

==
#fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-04-09)
==


Meeting started by hhorak at 12:09:52 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-04-09/env-and-stacks.2015-04-09-12.09.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* init process  (hhorak, 12:10:07)

* Dockerfile lint  (hhorak, 12:12:28)
  * LINK: http://docker-phracek.rhcloud.com/   (hhorak, 12:19:27)
  * web app for dockerfile_lint is not part of the dockerfile_lint
project, but it may be just tiny web app  (hhorak, 12:20:42)
  * ACTION: phracek to check plans about UI with dockerfile_lint authors
(hhorak, 12:22:43)
  * dockerfile_lint moved under project atomic  (hhorak, 12:28:26)
  * LINK: https://github.com/projectatomic/dockerfile_lint/   (hhorak,
12:28:27)
  * IDEA: to rewrite dockerfile_lint into python, but not sure if the
effort is worth since we should also concentrate on writing rules
(hhorak, 13:05:26)
  * IDEA: dockerfiles should live in upstream rather than downstream
distro  (hhorak, 13:05:33)
  * IDEA: we need to aggregate dockerfiles in fedora (primarily for
marketing reasons), the question is how (wiki considered not ideal,
since it never gets updated)  (hhorak, 13:06:21)
  * docker.fp.o or containers.fp.o may be a good place to keep the
aggregation of dockerfiles, the content may be generated from git,
similar to https://github.com/yeoman/yeoman.io  (hhorak, 13:22:39)

Meeting ended at 13:25:57 UTC.




Action Items

* phracek to check plans about UI with dockerfile_lint authors




Action Items, by person
---
* phracek
  * phracek to check plans about UI with dockerfile_lint authors
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---
* phracek (53)
* hhorak (51)
* langdon (42)
* ttomecek (22)
* vpavlin (19)
* zodbot (7)
* vpavlin1 (2)
* ttomecek1 (1)
* bkabrda (0)
* sicampbell (0)
* juhp (0)
* ncoghlan (0)
* walters (0)




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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-04-02)

2015-04-02 Thread Honza Horak
A bit late announce with not many topics to discuss, but at least to be 
available for west time zones. About the time, since we have DST in 
Europe as well already all the duties moved one hour sooner, let's meet 
at 17:00 UTC, so we fit into the time slot we chose before.. (hopefully 
this change makes sense, but let me know if not)


WG meeting will be at 17:00 UTC (13:00 EST, 19:00 Brno, 13:00 Boston, 
2:00+1d Tokyo, 3:00+1d Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =
* Follow-ups
  * Dockerfiles recommended tips
* Open Floor

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Re: Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-04-02)

2015-04-02 Thread Honza Horak

canceled due too little attendance.

Honza

On 04/02/2015 05:07 PM, Honza Horak wrote:

A bit late announce with not many topics to discuss, but at least to be
available for west time zones. About the time, since we have DST in
Europe as well already all the duties moved one hour sooner, let's meet
at 17:00 UTC, so we fit into the time slot we chose before.. (hopefully
this change makes sense, but let me know if not)

WG meeting will be at 17:00 UTC (13:00 EST, 19:00 Brno, 13:00 Boston,
2:00+1d Tokyo, 3:00+1d Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.

= Topics =
* Follow-ups
   * Dockerfiles recommended tips
* Open Floor

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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-03-26)

2015-03-26 Thread Honza Horak
I've got few messages from people who cannot attend today's meeting, but 
still there may be something to discuss. Sorry for very late announcement.


WG meeting will be at 13:00 UTC (9:00 EST, 14:00 Brno, 9:00 Boston, 
22:00 Tokyo, 23:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =
* Follow-ups
  * Dockerfiles recommended tips
  * Playground repo revisiting
* Open Floor

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Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-03-26)

2015-03-26 Thread Honza Horak

==
#fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-03-26)
==


Meeting started by hhorak1 at 13:00:40 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-03-26/env-and-stacks.2015-03-26-13.00.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* LINK: http://docker-phracek.rhcloud.com/   (phracek, 13:07:55)
* LINK: http://vpavlin.eu/2015/02/fedora-docker-and-systemd/   (hhorak,
  13:13:10)
* LINK:
  https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2015-March/209093.html
  (hhorak, 13:20:51)
* LINK: https://sgallagh.fedorapeople.org/2015-03-24.080115-0400EDT.html
  (phracek, 13:35:36)
* ACTION: hhorak to ask copr developers them about what is the current
  status of dist-git for copr  (hhorak, 13:40:26)
* LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Playground_repository
  (hhorak, 14:07:12)
* LINK:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Playground_repository_%28draft%29
  (hhorak, 14:07:16)
* playground should be kind of EPEL, for packages that are not or
  never will be in main fedora; for many conflicting repos, we already
  have copr itself -- so the one big repo seems to be the prefered way
  before the  (hhorak, 14:07:57)
* we'd also need to be able to let the packagers of to-be-merged repos
  know when they introduce a conflict (a tool that'd automatically
  detect rpm conflicts between the repos-to-be-merged)  (hhorak,
  14:07:57)
* ACTION: volunteer should write up some more concrete proposal with
  concrete user scenario  (hhorak, 14:07:57)
* LINK:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Projects/UserLevelPackageManagement
  (mstuchli, 14:09:57)
* LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UserLevelPackageManagement-Python
  (mstuchli, 14:10:09)
* LINK:

https://bitbucket.org/hpk42/devpi/issue/198/whitelisting-packages-that-can-be-mirrored
  (mstuchli, 14:10:51)
* ACTION: everyone to look at
  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UserLevelPackageManagement-Python and
  propose improvements on ML or next meeting  (hhorak, 14:15:47)

Meeting ended at 14:20:09 UTC.




Action Items

* hhorak to ask copr developers them about what is the current status of
  dist-git for copr
* volunteer should write up some more concrete proposal with concrete
  user scenario
* everyone to look at
  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UserLevelPackageManagement-Python and
  propose improvements on ML or next meeting




Action Items, by person
---
* hhorak
  * hhorak to ask copr developers them about what is the current status
of dist-git for copr
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * volunteer should write up some more concrete proposal with concrete
user scenario
  * everyone to look at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UserLevelPackageManagement-Python and
propose improvements on ML or next meeting




People Present (lines said)
---
* hhorak (66)
* bkabrda (25)
* phracek (22)
* mstuchli (13)
* vpavlin (9)
* walters (6)
* zodbot (3)
* hhorak1 (3)
* ttomecek (1)
* sicampbell (1)




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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-03-12)

2015-03-11 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 13:00 UTC (9:00 EST, 14:00 Brno, 9:00 Boston, 
22:00 Tokyo, 23:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =
* Follow-ups
  * Dockerfiles recommended tips
* Playground repo revisiting
* Open Floor

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Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-03-05)

2015-03-05 Thread Honza Horak

==
#fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-03-05)
==


Meeting started by hhorak at 18:04:57 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-03-05/env-and-stacks.2015-03-05-18.04.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* Dockerfiles recommended tips, dockerlint and WebUI  (hhorak, 18:06:21)
  * dockerfile_lint and dockerfile packaging guidelines make sense to be
kept together  (hhorak, 18:15:13)
  * LINK: https://github.com/redhataccess/dockerfile_lint   (hhorak,
18:15:13)
  * IDEA: run dockerfile_lint somewhere publically (fedora infra or
rhcloud until it is ready in fedora infra)  (hhorak, 18:16:08)
  * ACTION: all to look at dockerfile_lint to see if it is capable to
accommodate all the guidelines or we need to have them beside; get
more of the rules; and checking it's abilities in terms of
Dockerfile creation so that we can file some feature requests
(hhorak, 18:58:11)
  * DA will do something much more interesting stuff in terms of
creating dockerfiles.. the linter just lets you write a dockerfile
on the web with a bit of feedback on best practices  (hhorak,
18:58:58)
  * ACTION: langdon to try handle dockerfile_lint moving to project
atomic.. somehow...  (hhorak, 19:01:01)

Meeting ended at 19:02:28 UTC.




Action Items

* all to look at dockerfile_lint to see if it is capable to accommodate
  all the guidelines or we need to have them beside; get more of the
  rules; and checking it's abilities in terms of Dockerfile creation so
  that we can file some feature requests
* langdon to try handle dockerfile_lint moving to project atomic..
  somehow...




Action Items, by person
---
* langdon
  * langdon to try handle dockerfile_lint moving to project atomic..
somehow...
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * all to look at dockerfile_lint to see if it is capable to
accommodate all the guidelines or we need to have them beside; get
more of the rules; and checking it's abilities in terms of
Dockerfile creation so that we can file some feature requests




People Present (lines said)
---
* hhorak (50)
* phracek (49)
* vpavlin (40)
* langdon (35)
* zodbot (4)
* walters (4)
* jreznik (2)
* jzb (1)
* jsmith (1)
* bkabrda (0)
* ttomecek (0)
* sicampbell (0)
* juhp (0)
* ncoghlan (0)




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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-03-05)

2015-03-05 Thread Honza Horak
Since we would have a collisions in other rooms, let's meet at 
*#fedora-meeting-2*.


WG meeting will be at 18:00 UTC (13:00 EST, 19:00 Brno, 13:00 Boston, 
3:00+1d Tokyo, 4:00+1d Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =
* Dockerfiles recommended tips, dockerlint and WebUI
* Open Floor
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Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-02-26)

2015-02-26 Thread Honza Horak

==
#fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-02-26)
==


Meeting started by hhorak at 13:02:49 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-02-26/env-and-stacks.2015-02-26-13.02.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* init process  (hhorak, 13:03:21)

* Removing 'scls' from %{_sysconfdir} and %{_localstatedir}  (hhorak,
  13:07:05)
  * LINK:
https://www.redhat.com/archives/sclorg/2015-February/msg00032.html
(hhorak, 13:07:30)
  * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=105#c8
(hhorak, 13:10:27)
  * HELP:   (hhorak, 13:21:53)
  * AGREED: The preferred way for collections in Fedora is to use a
directory under /opt/vendor, which allows to categorize content
from one vendor (e.g. /opt/fedora/scls)  (hhorak, 13:30:18)
  * AGREED: to use scls for directory for collections rather than scl
(hhorak, 13:40:09)

* Follow-ups: Dockerfiles recommended tips  (hhorak, 13:40:52)
  * having some docker.fedoraproject.org will be very beneficial
(hhorak, 13:55:01)
  * IDEA: content should focus on docker in Fedora and developer
workflow for container based deployments, not that on what is
Docker?  (hhorak, 13:55:01)
  * IDEA: making DevAssistant fedora-dockerfiles aware would be quite
neat  (hhorak, 13:55:30)

Meeting ended at 14:08:47 UTC.




Action Items






Action Items, by person
---
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---
* phracek (62)
* ncoghlan (58)
* hhorak (46)
* bkabrda1 (30)
* ttomecek (24)
* juhp (22)
* zodbot (4)
* langdon (3)
* ttomecek1 (1)
* bkabrda (0)
* sicampbell (0)
* vpavlin (0)
* walters (0)




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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-02-26)

2015-02-25 Thread Honza Horak
HEADS UP -- new time and place; since we would have a collision in 
#fedora-meeting and it seems to be better to have meetings on the same 
channel every week, let's meet at #fedora-meeting-2.


WG meeting will be at 13:00 UTC (08:00 EST, 14:00 Brno, 8:00 Boston, 
22:00 Tokyo, 23:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode.


= Topics =
* Follow-ups
  * Dockerfiles recommended tips
* Playground repo revisiting
* Open Floor

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Re: Fedora Beaker instance

2015-02-19 Thread Honza Horak
Thank you both, I've forwarded this status and vision to the Env  
Stacks crew on today's meeting.


Honza

On 02/16/2015 02:48 PM, Tim Flink wrote:

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:14:12 +1000
Dan Callaghan dcall...@redhat.com wrote:


Hi Honza,

Excerpts from Honza Horak's message of 2015-02-13 00:44 +10:00:

Hi Dan,

I missed your workshop at DevConf unfortunately, but as one of the
members of Env  Stacks Working Group I'm wondering what is the
current status of beaker instance [1], since the wiki page [2]
seems to be quite short.

Is it available for some testing already? Is there any doc how to
use it as I'm ordinary fedora packager (I was not able to log in)?


Tim Flink and the Fedora QA team have been working on deploying
Beaker in Fedora, so they are best able to answer this.

Currently there is no way for regular Fedora contributors to log in,
it's just username+password accounts created by Tim by hand. The plan
is to use mod_auth_openid pointing as FASOpenID with some group
restrictions enforced, but that needed some support on the FASOpenID
side to expose Fedora group info. I guess that will be covered as
part of the Ipsilon upgrade coming sometime soon.


Yeah, it sounds like we'll be using OpenID/Persona for auth and some
form of interface with FAS for group information (the RFE is against
fas, not ipsilion).


There is also an issue with the LC hostname in log URLs which we are
working on.


Yeah, this is ongoing and one of the big blockers to being able to have
a production beaker system. I suspect that we'll be able to handle the
manual administration of accounts for the near future but the
non-resolvable logs (without massaging them, anyways) is our primary
issue.


I'm also not sure what is it's use case actually. Is it generally
providing a virtual machine for any use case or just for some
special type of work?


The initial use case was to run installer tests:

https://bitbucket.org/fedoraqa/fedora-beaker-tests

There has also been some interest in using Beaker to make non-x86
arches available to packagers who might need them temporarily for
porting purposes. That's something we would look at once Beaker is
fully up and running.


The primary use case that we're looking for is the running of test
cases (including the repo linked to above). There are certain task types
which are better left to beaker than to attempt running in Taskotron.
There are also folks inside Red Hat who have tests written for Beaker
and want to open source them so they can be run in Fedora - an added
bonus if we can get everything working well.


I expect Tim will want to discourage the use of Beaker for just give
me an x86 VM to play with scenarios, because there are other tools
for that, and Fedora Beaker's hardware pool will be fairly limited.


Yeah, I'm not sure how many resources we'll be giving access to that
way. I'm of the opinion that there are better and more efficient ways
for folks to access the resources they need.


Btw. I'm also thinking about some fedora proposal for being able to
store some arbitrary tests in Fedora (basically some best practices
how to write tests above unit tests; written in anything, including
beakerlib). Is this something you care about or is this something
totally irrelevant for beaker instance?


Yes I think Tim is very interested in the idea of package integration
tests, which may include running jobs in Beaker. I'll let him
elaborate further.


Something very similar is on our longer-term roadmap. The basic idea is
to allow for relatively arbitrary tasks (within reason, anyways) to be
scheduled on the build or dist-git change for a particular package.

However, that kind of functionality is still blocked on other features
(disposable clients, mostly) and I wasn't planning to get too far into
the details until those blockers were overcome.

Tim


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Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-02-19)

2015-02-19 Thread Honza Horak

==
#fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-02-19)
==


Meeting started by hhorak at 18:02:53 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-02-19/env-and-stacks.2015-02-19-18.02.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* Follow-ups -- any changes from last week?  (hhorak, 18:09:10)

* Dockerfiles recommended tips  (hhorak, 18:15:21)
  * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Tasklist
(hhorak, 18:15:45)
  * LINK:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Hhorak/Draft/task-dockerfile-rules
(hhorak, 18:15:55)
  * ACTION: phracek to get in touch with marek, author of JBoss Docker
images best practices  (hhorak, 18:24:10)

* Some info about beaker @ fedoraproject and potential EnvStack use
  cases  (hhorak, 18:24:39)
  * LINK: http://beaker.fedoraproject.org/   (hhorak, 18:25:28)
  * The initial use case was to run installer tests in
http://beaker.fedoraproject.org/  (hhorak, 18:27:44)
  * LINK: https://bitbucket.org/fedoraqa/fedora-beaker-tests   (hhorak,
18:27:54)

* Open Floor  (hhorak, 18:40:48)
  * RpmOstree change was approved, hooray!  (hhorak, 18:47:09)
  * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RpmOstree   (hhorak,
18:47:09)

Meeting ended at 18:48:17 UTC.




Action Items

* phracek to get in touch with marek, author of JBoss Docker images best
  practices




Action Items, by person
---
* phracek
  * phracek to get in touch with marek, author of JBoss Docker images
best practices
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---
* hhorak (53)
* phracek (16)
* walters (12)
* zodbot (4)
* bkabrda (0)
* ttomecek (0)
* sicampbell (0)
* vpavlin (0)
* juhp (0)
* ncoghlan (0)




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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-02-19)

2015-02-18 Thread Honza Horak
HEADS UP -- new time and place; since we would have a collision in 
#fedora-meeting and it seems to be better to have meetings on the same 
channel every week, let's meet at #fedora-meeting-1.


WG meeting will be at 18:00 UTC (13:00 EST, 19:00 Brno, 13:00 Boston, 
3:00+1d Tokyo, 4:00+1d Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-1 on Freenode.


= Topics =
* Follow-ups -- any changes from last week?
* Dockerfiles recommended tips [1]
* Some info about beaker @ fedoraproject and potential EnvStack use cases
* Open Floor

[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Hhorak/Draft/task-dockerfile-rules
[2] http://beaker.fedoraproject.org/
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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-02-12)

2015-02-11 Thread Honza Horak
HEADS UP -- new time and place; since we would have a collision in 
#fedora-meeting and it seems to be better to have meetings on the same 
channel every week, let's meet at #fedora-meeting-1.


WG meeting will be at 13:00 UTC (08:00 EST, 14:00 Brno, 8:00 Boston, 
22:00 Tokyo, 23:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-1 on Freenode.


I might be online, depending on internet connection on the conference, 
but Vasek seemed fine with chairing the meeting. Thanks Vasek!


= Topics =
* Follow-ups -- what has changed since last meeting
* DevConf legacy -- something interesting from DevConf?
* EnvStacks Governance Charter Review as per [1]
* Open Floor

[1] 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Governance_Charter#Changing_These_Rules


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No Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-02-05)

2015-02-04 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting should be newly on Thu at 13:00 UTC on odd weeks and at 18:00 
UTC on even weeks (this week is even). But since nobody volunteered to 
hold one, let's meet the next week, Thu 13:00 UTC.


Honza
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Re: mongodb.conf rename

2015-02-04 Thread Honza Horak

On 02/02/2015 05:01 PM, Miloslav Trmač wrote:

Hello,

in Fedora Rawhide there is a new major version of mongoDB 2.6. With this
new version names of mongoDB configuration files will be changed  - to
reflect names used in upstream rpms
(http://downloads-distro.mongodb.org/repo/redhat/os/x86_64/RPMS/ )

mongodb.conf - mongod.conf
mongodb-shard.conf - mongos.conf

In Fedora mongodb.conf is used from version 12.

If this change should be a problem, please contact me...


Is it possible to do something (write RPM scriptlets, or perhaps ship symlinks) 
to make this transparent and effortless to users?


Let's look at it closer.. First, we need to do all the magic only if 
previous version is  2.6.


One idea is that we could use %pre script and do the following in it:
If /etc/mongodb.conf is there (that means we upgrade from 2.4), move it 
to /etc/monogd.conf and create a symlink /etc/mongodb.conf  
/etc/mongod.conf


There is one issue I see with this way -- generally when we bring new 
content during update and the config file hasn't changed, rpm replaces 
the content and creates config.rpmnew otherwise. The solution above 
wouldn't behave like this.


Another idea is that we can just ship new config and let the old one 
either be backed-up (into config.rpmsave in case it has been changed) 
or removed. Then in case /etc/mongodb.conf.rpmsafe exists, its content 
could be copied to /etc/mongod.conf, while the original /etc/mongod.conf 
would be copied into /etc/mongod.conf.rpmnew. Hopefully, that should 
handle the same user experience as when user upgrades ordinary.


Just thinking laudly, so there may be some drawbacks or better solutions.

Honza

[1] 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:ScriptletSnippets#Scriptlet_Ordering

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New Env Stacks WG crew - elections not necessary

2015-01-26 Thread Honza Horak

Dear contributors,

based on the Governance Charter [1], the first Environment and Stacks 
working group elections were supposed to be held these days. We looked 
for 4 new voting members for the group.


The nominations period ended few days back and there are exactly 4 
nominations at [2]. Based on my poor math, since 4 - 4 = 0 there is no 
sense in holding the elections, since the results are already set.


Thus, let me cancel further election process and join me to welcome the 
following new members of Environment and Stacks working group:


* Slavek Kabrda (bkabrda), who's already been member so far
* Colin Walters (walters)
* Tomas Tomecek (ttomecek)
* Petr Hracek (phracek)

Guys, welcome on board, I'm looking forward to work with you!

The rest of the voting crew is:
* Honza Horák (hhorak)
* Nick Coghlan (ncoghlan)
* Jens Petersen (juhp)
* Václav Pavlín (vpavlin)
* Stuart Campbell (sicampbell)

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Governance_Charter
[2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Nominations

Honza
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Meeting minutes for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-01-21)

2015-01-21 Thread Honza Horak


#fedora-meeting: Env and Stacks (2015-01-21)



Meeting started by hhorak at 12:00:42 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2015-01-21/env-and-stacks.2015-01-21-12.00.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* Nominations  Elections  (hhorak, 12:04:03)
  * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Nominations
(hhorak, 12:04:29)
  * ACTION: hhorak will contact jreznik to let the winners be
announced  (hhorak, 12:11:38)

* devconf  (hhorak, 12:11:49)
  * juhp, bkabrda, vpavlin will be on devconf, brno and hopefully we'll
all meet on the panel discussion on Sunday 12:30 local (Brno) time
(hhorak, 12:16:53)
  * LINK: http://devconf.cz/   (hhorak, 12:16:53)
  * EnvStacks members and friends beer meeting: we'll meet at the
Saturday's event and then will go for a beer somewhere  (hhorak,
12:28:09)

* Ringzzz  (hhorak, 12:30:10)
  * there's been discussion about our meeting minutes from the last time
(hhorak, 13:27:33)
  * ACTION: everybody is encourage to get involved in the discussion
about rings on devel ML  (hhorak, 13:27:33)
  * it's not clear if separation of packages in ring 1 and 2 should be
made on SRPM level or on RPM level. the later option would produce
smaller set of packages in ring 1, there are no specific advantages
of the former option  (hhorak, 13:27:49)
  * we need to summarize the ideas about rings on a page, where we will
cover: our perception of rings, some sample scenarios (personas)
about what the rings model changes for the maintainers and what for
the users  (hhorak, 13:28:40)
  * unless somebody finds time to write it up, we'll can do something on
the beermeeting during devconf  (hhorak, 13:28:58)
  * ACTION: meeting time  (hhorak, 13:33:47)
  * ACTION: hhorak will send a link to when-is-good to pick up a new
timeslot for the EnvStacks meeting, we may setup two time slots,
one east-friendly, another west-friendly.. and alternate on odd/even
weeks  (hhorak, 13:38:38)

Meeting ended at 13:40:06 UTC.




Action Items

* hhorak will contact jreznik to let the winners be announced
* everybody is encourage to get involved in the discussion about rings
  on devel ML
* meeting time
* hhorak will send a link to when-is-good to pick up a new timeslot for
  the EnvStacks meeting, we may setup two time slots, one
  east-friendly, another west-friendly.. and alternate on odd/even weeks




Action Items, by person
---
* hhorak
  * hhorak will contact jreznik to let the winners be announced
  * hhorak will send a link to when-is-good to pick up a new timeslot
for the EnvStacks meeting, we may setup two time slots, one
east-friendly, another west-friendly.. and alternate on odd/even
weeks
* jreznik
  * hhorak will contact jreznik to let the winners be announced
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * everybody is encourage to get involved in the discussion about rings
on devel ML
  * meeting time




People Present (lines said)
---
* hhorak (56)
* bkabrda (43)
* juhp (27)
* vpavlin (19)
* jzeleny (5)
* zodbot (4)
* langdon (4)
* jreznik (1)
* samkottler (0)
* sicampbell (0)
* tjanez (0)
* ncoghlan (0)
* pkovar (0)




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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-01-21)

2015-01-20 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (07:00 EST, 13:00 Brno, 7:00 Boston, 
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting on Freenode.


= Topics =
* Nominations  Elections
* Fedora Rings
  * elaborating ML feedback
* Open Floor

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Define future of Fedora (was: Re: FESCo and Env and Stacks WG upcoming elections nominations are open)

2015-01-16 Thread Honza Horak
There are not many guys interested in the Environment  Stacks WG on the 
nomination page [2] so far, which is really shame. Don't loose your 
chance to help moving Fedora forward!


The main goal of this working group is to research and develop new or 
improved methods of developing, testing, packaging and deploying 
software for the Fedora community. For more concrete picture of our 
focus, see the tasklist [3].


We might have struggled with not much real stuff done so far, but we 
really need more people interested in discussions and also getting hands 
dirty by hacking some proof-of-concept solutions, patches for existing 
systems/tools and generally enjoying a lot of fun.


Challenging tasks often have quite unclear specification, so some level 
of own imagination and creativity is more than welcome, but being a 
member of the working group is great opportunity to have *big impact on 
the future look of Fedora*.


Please, consider and add your nomination before 23:59:59 UTC on January 
19, 2015!


[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks
[2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Nominations
[3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Tasklist

Honza

On 01/13/2015 10:37 AM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:

Hello everyone!
The nomination period for FESCo and Environments and Stacks Working
Group Elections is now open.

We will be selecting five seats on FESCo [1] and four seats on Env and
Stacks Working Group [2]. If you are interested in these roles, please
add yourself to the lists of nominees at [1] and [2] before 23:59:59
UTC on January 19, 2015!  If you wish to nominate someone else, please
consult with that person ahead of time. If you know someone who would
be a good candidate, now is a great time to make sure they're thinking
about it.


And missing links I promised :).

[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/SteeringCommittee/Nominations
[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Nominations

Main elections page is at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections

Jaroslav
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Re: Define future of Fedora

2015-01-16 Thread Honza Horak
Let me emphasize especially need for somebody who will be able to look 
closely at and contribute to release engineering tools.


I think it's clear that no bigger change how the fedora looks will 
happen without touching the tools we use currently in Fedora -- be it 
koji, dist-git, copr. Having somebody who would not be afraid to touch 
these things and work closely with Fedora release engineering, that's 
something what can make the things moving.


Now, who is able to accept that challenge?

Honza

On 01/16/2015 10:49 AM, Honza Horak wrote:

There are not many guys interested in the Environment  Stacks WG on the
nomination page [2] so far, which is really shame. Don't loose your
chance to help moving Fedora forward!

The main goal of this working group is to research and develop new or
improved methods of developing, testing, packaging and deploying
software for the Fedora community. For more concrete picture of our
focus, see the tasklist [3].

We might have struggled with not much real stuff done so far, but we
really need more people interested in discussions and also getting hands
dirty by hacking some proof-of-concept solutions, patches for existing
systems/tools and generally enjoying a lot of fun.

Challenging tasks often have quite unclear specification, so some level
of own imagination and creativity is more than welcome, but being a
member of the working group is great opportunity to have *big impact on
the future look of Fedora*.

Please, consider and add your nomination before 23:59:59 UTC on January
19, 2015!

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks
[2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Nominations
[3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Tasklist

Honza

On 01/13/2015 10:37 AM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:

Hello everyone!
The nomination period for FESCo and Environments and Stacks Working
Group Elections is now open.

We will be selecting five seats on FESCo [1] and four seats on Env and
Stacks Working Group [2]. If you are interested in these roles, please
add yourself to the lists of nominees at [1] and [2] before 23:59:59
UTC on January 19, 2015!  If you wish to nominate someone else, please
consult with that person ahead of time. If you know someone who would
be a good candidate, now is a great time to make sure they're thinking
about it.


And missing links I promised :).

[1]
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/SteeringCommittee/Nominations
[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Nominations

Main elections page is at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections

Jaroslav
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Meeting minutes for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-01-14)

2015-01-14 Thread Honza Horak


#fedora-meeting: Env and Stacks (2015-01-14)



Meeting started by hhorak at 12:01:10 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2015-01-14/env-and-stacks.2015-01-14-12.01.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* hello-ing  (hhorak, 12:01:44)

* Fedora Rings  (hhorak, 12:03:21)
  * LINK: http://mattdm.org/fedora/next/#15   (hhorak, 12:05:39)
  * LINK: http://mattdm.org/fedora/next/#20   (hhorak, 12:05:40)
  * there is no clear sense of the details of each ring.. e.g.
definition, type of things in the ring, loose guidelines, users'
expectations, motivation to use the rings  (hhorak, 12:18:13)
  * IDEA: ring2 may be split into ring 2 and ring 3 - the new ring 2
should contain only system high-level stacks (we'll always need
system versions of e.g. interpreted langauges) and ring 3 should
contain copr/playground and possibly also upstream-type of repos
(hhorak, 12:18:17)
  * ring 0 is a minimal bootable system - basically the domain of the
Base WG  (hhorak, 12:33:37)
  * IDEA: question is what can be moved out of ring 1 to ring 2?
(hhorak, 12:40:13)
  * IDEA: the promotion idea.. as in ... the lower the number of ring
the higher quality of the package and the more it must be maintained
(hhorak, 12:40:13)
  * IDEA: definition of ring 1 is a minimal set of packages that give
you a functional system, with some sort of approval  (hhorak,
13:31:21)
  * IDEA: ring 1 should be self-hosted -- because you want to build very
solid important packages using very solid important packages
(hhorak, 13:31:21)
  * IDEA: WG-wkstn may want to package httpd differently than WG-server
-- that could be solved on configuration - level like httpd-dev and
httpd-prod  (hhorak, 13:31:21)
  * IDEA: then ring 2 includes clean/good pkgs of other stuff; ring 3
good pkgs but not complete; ring 4 any old stuff  (hhorak, 13:32:31)
  * IDEA: topic for ML or some of the next meetings: setting some
technical expectations about how to differ ring 0, 1, 2..  (hhorak,
13:40:44)
  * IDEA: topic for ML or some of the next meetings: look more closely
on users' wok-flow -- say he wants to develop or use some app from
ring X -- what it actually means in practice..  (hhorak, 13:40:44)

Meeting ended at 13:45:30 UTC.




Action Items






Action Items, by person
---
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---
* juhp_ (69)
* bkabrda (64)
* langdon (50)
* hhorak (45)
* vpavlin (28)
* zodbot (4)
* jzeleny-mtg (1)
* samkottler (0)
* tjanez (0)
* sicampbell (0)
* juhp (0)
* ncoghlan (0)
* pkovar (0)




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Re: [EPEL-devel] Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-01-14)

2015-01-13 Thread Honza Horak
Env  Stacks WG is going to define (hopefully) some more concrete Rings 
plans on tomorrow's meeting. Expecting to be an interesting discussion, 
important enough for wider audience, let me crosspost the invitation 
also to other working groups.


(we're aware of not very friendly time for US folks, but it doesn't seem 
worth changing the time-slot before the elections, since we're gonna do 
it after the elections anyway; feel free to use the mailing list 
env-and-stacks@fp.o instead)


Honza

On 01/12/2015 04:46 PM, Honza Horak wrote:

WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (07:00 EST, 13:00 Brno, 7:00 Boston,
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting on Freenode.

= Topics =
* Fedora Rings
   * revisit the plan around rings
   * interpret rings with users' use cases and requirements
   * sync on where SCLs, copr, languages repositories etc. fit into
rings ideas
* Chairman for next meeting
* Open Floor

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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-01-14)

2015-01-12 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (07:00 EST, 13:00 Brno, 7:00 Boston, 
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting on Freenode.


= Topics =
* Fedora Rings
  * revisit the plan around rings
  * interpret rings with users' use cases and requirements
  * sync on where SCLs, copr, languages repositories etc. fit into 
rings ideas

* Chairman for next meeting
* Open Floor

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Software Collections mostly unanswered questions

2015-01-07 Thread Honza Horak

Hi,

as promised there is a wiki page [1] with mostly questions that seem to 
be unanswered so far. Some of those questions have already some proposed 
answer, but this is still subject of discussion. This was prepared to 
move forward since it seems the SCL topic is too complex now.


Let's discuss the topics on Env and Stacks mailing list and vote on 
controversial items on some of the next Env and Stacks meeting.


Recommended way to start a discussion:
1) Open up a discussion about a specific topic on the ML (may be one 
question or can cover more related questions).
2) add a link to the ML thread into the wiki page [1], so the discussion 
is tracked

(feel free to add new question to the wiki if not mentioned there yet)

[1] 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Projects/SoftwareCollectionsInFedora


Honza
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Re: Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-01-07)

2015-01-07 Thread Honza Horak


#fedora-meeting: Env and Stacks (2015-01-07)



Meeting started by hhorak at 12:02:19 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2015-01-07/env-and-stacks.2015-01-07-12.02.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* devpi work is in progress, the code is quite complex, so it'll take
  some time before having implemented it. upstream seems keen on the
  idea, but it seems they don't have enough time to do it themselves
  (hhorak, 12:11:26)
* Follow-up: SCLs  (hhorak, 12:12:26)
  * LINK:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Projects/SoftwareCollectionsInFedora
(hhorak, 12:13:41)
  * scls are a long complex topic, let's start discussions about
questions on ML and then perhaps vote about discussed things on one
of next meetings  (hhorak, 12:25:48)
  * ACTION: hhorak will post the link to the ML and will encourage to
discuss on ML  (hhorak, 12:26:31)

* Env and Stacks elections  (hhorak, 12:29:12)
  * According to Changing These Rules note in Governance Charter we
may revisit rules of the working group after elections, but
currently there are no specific things to change  (hhorak, 12:36:05)

* Open Floor  (hhorak, 12:39:40)
  * ACTION: everybody to look at the python 3 in EPEL proposal from
bkabrda at

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/epel-devel/2014-December/010548.html
(hhorak, 12:50:01)

Meeting ended at 13:32:06 UTC.




Action Items

* hhorak will post the link to the ML and will encourage to discuss on
  ML
* everybody to look at the python 3 in EPEL proposal from bkabrda at

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/epel-devel/2014-December/010548.html




Action Items, by person
---
* bkabrda
  * everybody to look at the python 3 in EPEL proposal from bkabrda at

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/epel-devel/2014-December/010548.html
* hhorak
  * hhorak will post the link to the ML and will encourage to discuss on
ML
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---
* juhp_ (52)
* hhorak (45)
* bkabrda (18)
* langdon (18)
* zodbot (4)
* vpavlin (1)
* jzeleny (1)
* samkottler (0)
* sicampbell (0)
* tjanez (0)
* juhp (0)
* ncoghlan (0)
* pkovar (0)




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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-01-07)

2015-01-06 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (07:00 EST, 13:00 Brno, 7:00 Boston, 
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting on Freenode.


= Topics =
* Follow-ups
  * languages repositories
  * SCLs
* Chairman for next meeting
* Open Floor

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Meeting minutes for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2014-12-17)

2014-12-17 Thread Honza Horak


#fedora-meeting: Env and Stacks (2014-12-17)



Meeting started by hhorak at 12:01:19 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-12-17/env-and-stacks.2014-12-17-12.01.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* init process  (hhorak, 12:01:34)

* Follow-up: languages repositories  (hhorak, 12:09:02)
  * on the Python upstream side, there is still no great answer for
wheel compatibility tags on OS's other than Windows and Mac OS X,
which won't block the pilot  (hhorak, 12:12:01)
  * the Pulp devs consider their Python support to be in an alpha state,
so picking that up *after* the initial pilot is a good approach
(hhorak, 12:20:32)

* Follow-up: SCL  (hhorak, 12:21:11)
  * IDEA: centos person builds a repo file for centos that is shipped
in a rpm in epel for access to scl.o in centos.  (hhorak, 12:40:15)
  * ACTION: hhorak will prepare (or resurrect old one) wiki page for
SCLs in Fedora (with connection to EPEL, CentOS)  (hhorak, 12:47:42)
  * IDEA: ring 0 = Core, ring 1 = Products, ring 2 = everything else?
(hhorak, 12:55:39)
  * IDEA: another view on rings: core, stacks, products, everything else
(hhorak, 12:58:43)

* elections -- who wants to offer the chair  (hhorak, 13:07:33)
  * first, who wants to continue to be a voting member: hhorak ncoghlan
vpavlin sicampbell juhp  (hhorak, 13:07:59)
  * who explicitly wants to offer the chair: bkabrda tjanez  (hhorak,
13:09:19)
  * who did not responded and thus his chair will be offered: samkottler
pkovar  (hhorak, 13:09:31)
  * the next meeting will be Jan 7, 2015  (hhorak, 13:14:15)

Meeting ended at 13:15:55 UTC.




Action Items

* hhorak will prepare (or resurrect old one) wiki page for SCLs in
  Fedora (with connection to EPEL, CentOS)




Action Items, by person
---
* hhorak
  * hhorak will prepare (or resurrect old one) wiki page for SCLs in
Fedora (with connection to EPEL, CentOS)
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---
* hhorak (64)
* juhp_ (56)
* ncoghlan (35)
* langdon (30)
* jzeleny (7)
* bkabrda (5)
* zodbot (5)
* vpavlin (1)
* samkottler (0)
* sicampbell (0)
* tjanez (0)
* juhp (0)
* pkovar (0)




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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2014-12-17)

2014-12-16 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (07:00 EST, 13:00 Brno, 7:00 Boston, 
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting on Freenode.


= Topics =
* Follow-ups
  * languages repositories
  * SCLs
* Chairman for next meeting
* Open Floor

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Meeting minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2014-12-10)

2014-12-10 Thread Honza Horak


#fedora-meeting: Env and Stacks (2014-12-10)



Meeting started by hhorak at 12:01:52 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-12-10/env-and-stacks.2014-12-10-12.01.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* welcoming...  (hhorak, 12:02:19)

* Follow-up: languages repositories  (hhorak, 12:03:52)
  * devpi was chosen for proof-of-concept just because it was first on
mind, but it might be pulp in the future  (hhorak, 12:09:00)
  * devpi doesn't allow saying these packages can't be mirrored; a bug
upstream is opened, work in progress  (hhorak, 12:12:32)
  * PoC with devpi makes sense, since it's already native to the Python
ecosystem and hence avoids Pulp plugin limitations as a potentially
confounding factor; thus let's keep working on the devpi pilot and
also keep an eye on pulp_python  (hhorak, 12:18:07)
  * good news is, that if something is *in* our devpi instance, devpi
won't update it from pypi unless we tell it to using pypi_whitelist
(hhorak, 12:23:27)
  * LINK:

https://bitbucket.org/hpk42/devpi/issue/198/whitelisting-packages-that-can-be-mirrored
(hhorak, 12:26:17)
  * ACTION: bkabrda will list requirements/news learned for devpi on the
LSR project page  (hhorak, 12:30:03)
  * ACTION: bkabrda will prepare a draft document about what/how we want
to mirror/prebuild on the pilot devpi instance  (bkabrda, 12:32:01)
  * ACTION: bkabrda will find out whether devpi can mirror pulp's
pulp_python repo  (bkabrda, 12:44:31)
  * LINK: http://doc.devpi.net/latest/quickstart-releaseprocess.html
(hhorak, 12:53:35)

* Follow-up:SCLs  (hhorak, 12:54:33)

Meeting ended at 13:20:46 UTC.




Action Items

* bkabrda will list requirements/news learned for devpi on the LSR
  project page
* bkabrda will prepare a draft document about what/how we want to
  mirror/prebuild on the pilot devpi instance
* bkabrda will find out whether devpi can mirror pulp's pulp_python repo




Action Items, by person
---
* bkabrda
  * bkabrda will list requirements/news learned for devpi on the LSR
project page
  * bkabrda will prepare a draft document about what/how we want to
mirror/prebuild on the pilot devpi instance
  * bkabrda will find out whether devpi can mirror pulp's pulp_python
repo
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---
* bkabrda (48)
* ncoghlan (43)
* hhorak (34)
* jzeleny (29)
* langdon (11)
* juhp_ (8)
* zodbot (4)
* vpavlin (3)
* nphilipp (1)
* samkottler (0)
* tjanez (0)
* sicampbell (0)
* juhp (0)
* pkovar (0)




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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2014-12-10)

2014-12-09 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (07:00 EST, 13:00 Brno, 7:00 Boston, 
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting on Freenode.


= Topics =
* Follow-ups
 * languages repositories
 * SCLs
* Chairman for next meeting
* Open Floor
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Meeting minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2014-12-03)

2014-12-03 Thread Honza Horak


#fedora-meeting: Env and Stacks (2014-12-03)



Meeting started by hhorak at 12:02:01 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-12-03/env-and-stacks.2014-12-03-12.02.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* init process  (hhorak, 12:02:39)

* Follow-ups  (hhorak, 12:04:26)
  * LINK:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Projects/LanguageSpecificRepositories
(ncoghlan, 12:06:03)
  * LINK: https://github.com/pulp/pulp_python   (ncoghlan, 12:10:50)
  * the Java guys has reached a conclusion that downstream maven
repository wouldn't have significant benefit, so I'd say that Python
is alone as a pilot right now  (hhorak, 12:14:20)
  * Python wheel's currently have a problem where all prebuild Linux
binaries get tagged linux_arch  (hhorak, 12:14:20)
  * LINK:

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2014-November/025297.html
(hhorak, 12:24:08)
  * LINK:

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2014-December/025337.html
(hhorak, 12:24:15)
  * we should make some marketing for the 'upstream repository' ideas,
so we get feedback from broader community, but not sooner than the
devpi instance is out and we have an example of using that in a
Dockerfile to install a Python app  (hhorak, 12:31:13)
  * LINK:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Projects/UserLevelPackageManagement
(ncoghlan, 12:33:38)
  * ACTION: ncoghlan: add the trusted curator rationale to
LanguageSpecificRepositories page  (ncoghlan, 12:51:52)
  * ACTION: bkabrda will ask java guys to create a wiki page summarizing
the approaches we thought of and why we think it's not worth the
effort + post the link to WG ML once it's ready  (hhorak, 12:56:37)

* SCLs and CentOS  (hhorak, 12:59:43)
  * Software collections development is now slowly moving to CentOS,
since that is nice open platform where software collections make
much more sense.  (hhorak, 13:01:22)
  * So, what is happening is that CentOS SIG was established that would
help to develop some better ecosystem around SCLs where more people
can actively participate.  (hhorak, 13:01:49)
  * LINK: http://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/SCLo   (hhorak,
13:01:53)
  * better said centos seems to like scls more than fedora  (hhorak,
13:07:29)
  * there are still valid use cases for SCLs in Fedora  (hhorak,
13:23:08)
  * SCLs as a technology should be implemented in Fedora first,
irrelevant of its consumption of the content  (hhorak, 13:27:41)

* Chairman for next meeting  (hhorak, 13:39:01)

Meeting ended at 13:44:03 UTC.




Action Items

* ncoghlan: add the trusted curator rationale to
  LanguageSpecificRepositories page
* bkabrda will ask java guys to create a wiki page summarizing the
  approaches we thought of and why we think it's not worth the effort +
  post the link to WG ML once it's ready




Action Items, by person
---
* bkabrda
  * bkabrda will ask java guys to create a wiki page summarizing the
approaches we thought of and why we think it's not worth the effort
+ post the link to WG ML once it's ready
* ncoghlan
  * ncoghlan: add the trusted curator rationale to
LanguageSpecificRepositories page
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---
* bkabrda (62)
* hhorak (62)
* ncoghlan (61)
* langdon (43)
* juhp (15)
* bochecha (14)
* Southern_Gentlem (5)
* zodbot (4)
* RemiFedora (2)




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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2014-12-03)

2014-12-02 Thread Honza Horak

WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (07:00 EST, 13:00 Brno, 7:00 Boston,
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting on Freenode.

= Topics =
* Follow-ups
* SCLs and CentOS
* Chairman for next meeting
* Open Floor
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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2014-11-25)

2014-11-25 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (07:00 EST, 13:00 Brno, 7:00 Boston,
21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting on Freenode.

= Topics =
* Follow-ups
* Language specific repositories
* Election planning
* Chairman for next meeting
* Open Floor
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Re: Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2014-11-26)

2014-11-25 Thread Honza Horak
Sorry, wrong date, 2014-11-26 is correct.

Honza

- Original Message -
 WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (07:00 EST, 13:00 Brno, 7:00 Boston,
 21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting on Freenode.
 
 = Topics =
 * Follow-ups
 * Language specific repositories
 * Election planning
 * Chairman for next meeting
 * Open Floor
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Re: Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2014-11-05)

2014-11-25 Thread Honza Horak
Thanks, fixed in the invitation for tomorrow.

Honza

- Original Message -
 On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 04:42:01AM -0500, Jens Petersen wrote:
  WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (07:00 EST, 13:00 Brno, 9:00 Boston,
  21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting on Freenode.
 
 Boston is in the US/Eastern time zone, so, it's actually 7am Boston
 time, not 9.
 
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 mat...@fedoraproject.org
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No Env-and-Stacks WG meeting today (2014-11-19)

2014-11-19 Thread Honza Horak
There is no agenda proposed for this week so let's skip today and have a 
meeting the next week.


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Meeting minutes for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2014-11-12)

2014-11-12 Thread Honza Horak


#fedora-meeting: Env and Stacks (2014-11-12)



Meeting started by hhorak at 12:03:56 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-11-12/env-and-stacks.2014-11-12-12.03.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---
* init process  (hhorak, 12:04:18)

* Follow-ups  (hhorak, 12:08:54)
  * LINK: https://copr.fedoraproject.org/coprs/bkabrda/devpi21/
(bkabrda, 12:10:51)
  * packaged devpi is available in copr as SCL depended on python33 SCL
for el7  (hhorak, 12:14:08)
  * LINK: https://copr.fedoraproject.org/coprs/bkabrda/devpi21/
(hhorak, 12:14:15)
  * if there is more information for tasks in
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Tasklist, which people
wanting to collaborate on the task can need, it is suggested to
create some separate page where some subtasks and more info would be
included  (hhorak, 12:37:53)
  * it can be in format of Env_and_Stacks/Projects/Project_XY  with some
a structure like summary, description, owner(s), status, concrete
tasks to be solved  (hhorak, 12:38:28)

* Integration tests  (hhorak, 12:39:10)
  * integration tests is not a perfect term for tests, that should cover
more components and would be run outside of %build section (not
during RPM build); functional tests seem a bit better  (hhorak,
12:45:44)

* Election planning  (hhorak, 12:46:12)
  * ACTION: hhorak will consult what the infrastructure for voting is
needed and will send some proposal with more detailed steps
(hhorak, 13:03:48)

* Chairman for next meeting  (hhorak, 13:13:01)
  * vpavlin will chair the meeting the next week  (hhorak, 13:29:08)

* Open Floor  (hhorak, 13:30:26)

Meeting ended at 13:34:09 UTC.




Action Items

* hhorak will consult what the infrastructure for voting is needed and
  will send some proposal with more detailed steps




Action Items, by person
---
* hhorak
  * hhorak will consult what the infrastructure for voting is needed and
will send some proposal with more detailed steps
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---
* hhorak (64)
* juhp_ (44)
* ncoghlan (34)
* bkabrda (15)
* vpavlin (14)
* zodbot (4)
* samkottler (0)
* sicampbell (0)
* tjanez (0)
* juhp (0)
* pkovar (0)




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Re: Proposal for integration tests infrastructure

2014-11-04 Thread Honza Horak
Tim, thanks for your comments, I think we're on the same page in 
basically all aspects you mention.


It seems like the issue was more wording and I still fail to find some 
better term for the tests that I was referring to -- so, how to ideally 
call the tests that are not unit tests any more, but still verify only 
one or more particular component(s)? What about Functional tests, 
would it be more precise?


Honza

On 11/03/2014 07:10 PM, Tim Flink wrote:

On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 17:08:40 +0100
Honza Horak hho...@redhat.com wrote:


On 10/28/2014 08:08 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

On 10/22/2014 09:43 PM, Honza Horak wrote:

Fedora lacks integration testing (unit testing done during build
is not enough). Taskotron will be able to fill some gaps in the
future, so maintainers will be able to set-up various tasks after
their component is built. But even before this works we can
benefit from having the tests already available (and run them
manually if needed).

Hereby, I'd like to get ideas and figure out answers for how and
where to keep the tests. A similar discussion already took place
before, which I'd like to continue in:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-January/193498.html

And some short discussion already took place here as well:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2014-October/000570.html


It's worth clarifying your scope here, as integration tests means
different things to different people, and the complexity varies
wildly depending on *what* you're trying to test.

If you're just looking at tests of individual packages beyond what
folks have specified in their RPM %check macro, then this is
exactly the case that Taskotron is designed to cover.

If you're looking at more complex cases like multihost testing, bare
metal testing across multiple architectures, or installer
integration testing, then that's what Beaker was built to handle
(and has already been handling for RHEL for several years).

That level is where you start to cross the line into true system
level acceptance tests and you often *want* those maintained
independently of the individual components in order to catch
regressions in behaviour other services are relying on.


Good point about defining the scope, thanks.. From my POV, we should
rather start with some less complicated scenarios, so we can have
something ready to use in reasonable time.

Let's say the common use case would be defining tests that verify
components' basic functionality that cannot be run during build.
This should cover simple installation scenarios, running test-suites
that need to be run outside of build process, or tests that need to
be run for multiple components at the same time (e.g. testing basic
functionality of LAMP stack). This should also cover issues with
SELinux, systemd units, etc. that cannot be tested during build and
IMHO are often cause of issues.

I have no problem to state clearly for now that the tests cannot
define any hardware requirements, even non-localhost networking. In
other words the tests will be run on one machine with any hardware
and any (or none) network.

However, I'd rather see tests not tight to a particular component,
since even simple test might cover two or three of them and it
wouldn't be correct tight it to all nor to only one of them.


Yeah, I think that package-specific checks are a similar but slightly
different kettle of fish than we're discussing here.

We'd have to figure out how the integration tests would be scheduled
(nightly, on change in a set of packages corresponding to each check,
etc.) but that can wait until we've refined what we're looking to do a
bit more.


snip


How to deliver tests?
a/ just use them directly from git (we need to keep some metadata
for dependencies anyway)
b/ package them as RPMs (we can keep metadata there; e.g.
Taskotron will run only tests that have Provides:
ci-tests(mariadb) after mariadb is built; we also might automate
packaging tests to RPMs)


Our experience with Beaker suggests that you want to support both -
running directly from Git tends to be better for test development,
while using RPMs tends to be better for dependency management and
sharing test infrastructure code.


Which framework to use?
People have no time to learn new things, so we should let them to
write the tests in any language and just define some conventions
how to run them.


Taskotron already covers this pretty well (even if invoking Beaker
tests, it would make more sense to do that via Taskotron rather than
directly).


Right, Taskotron involvement seems like the best bet now, but it
should not be tight to it -- in case Taskotron is replaced by some
other tool for executing tasks in the future, we cannot loose the
tests themselves.


While I don't see Taskotron going away anytime soon, I agree that we
should avoid tight coupling where it makes sense to avoid it.

With my captain obvious hat on, the trick is figuring out where the
point of diminishing returns is - too

Re: Proposal for integration tests infrastructure

2014-11-03 Thread Honza Horak

On 10/28/2014 08:08 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

On 10/22/2014 09:43 PM, Honza Horak wrote:

Fedora lacks integration testing (unit testing done during build is not
enough). Taskotron will be able to fill some gaps in the future, so
maintainers will be able to set-up various tasks after their component
is built. But even before this works we can benefit from having the
tests already available (and run them manually if needed).

Hereby, I'd like to get ideas and figure out answers for how and where
to keep the tests. A similar discussion already took place before, which
I'd like to continue in:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-January/193498.html

And some short discussion already took place here as well:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2014-October/000570.html


It's worth clarifying your scope here, as integration tests means
different things to different people, and the complexity varies wildly
depending on *what* you're trying to test.

If you're just looking at tests of individual packages beyond what folks
have specified in their RPM %check macro, then this is exactly the case
that Taskotron is designed to cover.

If you're looking at more complex cases like multihost testing, bare
metal testing across multiple architectures, or installer integration
testing, then that's what Beaker was built to handle (and has already
been handling for RHEL for several years).

That level is where you start to cross the line into true system level
acceptance tests and you often *want* those maintained independently of
the individual components in order to catch regressions in behaviour
other services are relying on.


Good point about defining the scope, thanks.. From my POV, we should 
rather start with some less complicated scenarios, so we can have 
something ready to use in reasonable time.


Let's say the common use case would be defining tests that verify 
components' basic functionality that cannot be run during build. This 
should cover simple installation scenarios, running test-suites that 
need to be run outside of build process, or tests that need to be run 
for multiple components at the same time (e.g. testing basic 
functionality of LAMP stack). This should also cover issues with 
SELinux, systemd units, etc. that cannot be tested during build and IMHO 
are often cause of issues.


I have no problem to state clearly for now that the tests cannot define 
any hardware requirements, even non-localhost networking. In other words 
the tests will be run on one machine with any hardware and any (or none) 
network.


However, I'd rather see tests not tight to a particular component, since 
even simple test might cover two or three of them and it wouldn't be 
correct tight it to all nor to only one of them.


snip


How to deliver tests?
a/ just use them directly from git (we need to keep some metadata for
dependencies anyway)
b/ package them as RPMs (we can keep metadata there; e.g. Taskotron will
run only tests that have Provides: ci-tests(mariadb) after mariadb is
built; we also might automate packaging tests to RPMs)


Our experience with Beaker suggests that you want to support both -
running directly from Git tends to be better for test development, while
using RPMs tends to be better for dependency management and sharing test
infrastructure code.


Which framework to use?
People have no time to learn new things, so we should let them to write
the tests in any language and just define some conventions how to run them.


Taskotron already covers this pretty well (even if invoking Beaker
tests, it would make more sense to do that via Taskotron rather than
directly).


Right, Taskotron involvement seems like the best bet now, but it should 
not be tight to it -- in case Taskotron is replaced by some other tool 
for executing tasks in the future, we cannot loose the tests themselves.


That's actually why I don't like the idea to keep the tests in 
Taskotron's git repo -- that could easily end up with using some 
specific Taskotron features and potential move to other system or 
running them as standalone tests would be problematic.


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Re: Proposal for integration tests infrastructure

2014-11-03 Thread Honza Horak

On 10/24/2014 07:18 PM, John Dulaney wrote:

How to deliver tests? a/ just use them directly from git (we need
to keep some metadata for dependencies anyway) b/ package them as
RPMs (we can keep metadata there; e.g. Taskotron will run only
tests that have Provides: ci-tests(mariadb) after mariadb is
built; we also might automate packaging tests to RPMs)


To answer both of these, the plan is to keep taskotron tasks in their own
git repo; currently this is at (0).

To run the tasks, taskotron sets up a disposable task client and then git
clones the task to be run.  This solves the issue of delivery and allows
a continuous integration-like solution.


I mentioned it in a different mail in this thread (just sent), but just 
TL;DR version of it -- I think we should keep tests away from Taskotron 
itself, even if they will be run by it.


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Re: Proposal for integration tests infrastructure

2014-11-03 Thread Honza Horak

On 10/28/2014 08:08 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

Note that any or all of the above may be appropriate, depending on the
exact nature of the specific tests.

For example, there are already some public Beaker installer tests at
https://bitbucket.org/fedoraqa/fedora-beaker-tests  for execution on
http://beaker.fedoraproject.org/


I didn't know about this instance, interesting.

Can anybody shortly explain the plan with this instance, if there is 
any? It would make sense to me to use Taskotron to run Beaker tests at 
http://beaker.fedoraproject.org, but maybe there are some other plans?


Honza
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Proposal for integration tests infrastructure

2014-10-22 Thread Honza Horak
Fedora lacks integration testing (unit testing done during build is not 
enough). Taskotron will be able to fill some gaps in the future, so 
maintainers will be able to set-up various tasks after their component 
is built. But even before this works we can benefit from having the 
tests already available (and run them manually if needed).


Hereby, I'd like to get ideas and figure out answers for how and where 
to keep the tests. A similar discussion already took place before, which 
I'd like to continue in:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-January/193498.html

And some short discussion already took place here as well:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2014-October/000570.html

Some high level requirements:
* tests will be written by maintainers or broader community, not a 
dedicated team
* tests will be easy to run on anybody's computer (but might be 
potentially destructive; some secure environment will not be part of tests)
* tests will be run automatically after related components get built 
(probably by Taskotron)


Where to keep tests?
a/ in current dist-git for related components (problem with sharing 
parts of code, problem where to keep tests related for more components)
b/ in separate git with similar functionality as dist-git (needs new 
infrastructure, components are not directly connected with tests, won't 
make mess in current dist-git)
c/ in current dist-git but as ordinary components (no new infrastructure 
needed but components are not directly connected with tests)


How to deliver tests?
a/ just use them directly from git (we need to keep some metadata for 
dependencies anyway)
b/ package them as RPMs (we can keep metadata there; e.g. Taskotron will 
run only tests that have Provides: ci-tests(mariadb) after mariadb is 
built; we also might automate packaging tests to RPMs)


Structure for tests?
a/ similar to what components use (branches for Fedora versions)
b/ only one branch
Test maintainers should be allowed to behave the same as package 
maintainers do -- one likes keeping branches the same and uses %if 
%fedora macros, someone else likes specs clean and rather maintain more 
different branches) -- we won't find one structure that would fit all, 
so allowing both ways seems better.


Which framework to use?
People have no time to learn new things, so we should let them to write 
the tests in any language and just define some conventions how to run them.


Cheers,
Honza
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