Re: The case of LTO when produced enlarged binaries

2020-08-30 Thread Igor Raits
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On Sun, 2020-08-30 at 12:37 +0100, Tomasz Kłoczko wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 at 21:31, Igor Raits <
> ignatenkobr...@fedoraproject.org>
> wrote:
> [..]
> 
> > Well, I tell what I see :)
> > 
> > Compiling kitty with settings below produces this big
> > /usr/lib64/kitty/kitty/fast_data_types.so:
> > 
> > * Without any LTO-related flags: 4.52 MB
> > * With -flto: 4.30 MB
> > * With -flto -ffat-lto-objects: 4.79 MB
> > 
> > Well, I did not run compilation multiple times but don't think it
> > will
> > change much.
> > 
> 
> Comparing the size of the executable files does not make any sense.
> You should use the "size" command.

Well, I'd use `size` command if I would care what section of a file
takes what size. In this case, I don't really care which section it is.

All I care is that with -ffat-lto-objects, binary becomes bigger.

> kloczek
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Re: The case of LTO when produced enlarged binaries

2020-08-30 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-07-24 at 14:32 -0600, Jeff Law wrote:
> On Fri, 2020-07-24 at 22:30 +0200, Igor Raits wrote:
> > On Fri, 2020-07-24 at 14:27 -0600, Jeff Law wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2020-07-24 at 22:24 +0200, Igor Raits wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 2020-07-24 at 13:29 -0600, Jeff Law wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, 2020-07-24 at 19:12 +, Artem Tim wrote:
> > > > > > Hi. In rare cases building packages with LTO producing
> > > > > > binaries
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > libraries which have bigger size then if they have built
> > > > > > without
> > > > > > LTO. For example 'kitty' package:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > * with LTO:
> > > > > >   - koji task 
> > > > > > https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=47762998
> > > > > > 1.79 MB glfw-wayland.so
> > > > > > 1.99 MB glfw-x11.so
> > > > > > 4.78 MB fast_data_types.so
> > > > > > 8.56 MB total
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > * no LTO
> > > > > >   - koji 
> > > > > > https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=47769854
> > > > > > 1.65 MB glfw-wayland.so
> > > > > > 1.84 MB glfw-x11.so
> > > > > > 4.51 MB fast_data_types.so
> > > > > > 8.00 MB total
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Difference is 7%. What we should do in such case? Should we
> > > > > > disable
> > > > > > LTO for such packages? Or there is still could be gains
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > faster
> > > > > > code execution speed?
> > > > > I'd tend to leave LTO on, but it's totally your call. 
> > > > > Without
> > > > > looking at the
> > > > > binaries, sources and compiler dumps I'd hazard a guess
> > > > > you're
> > > > > getting a lot of
> > > > > cross module inlining, but very little identical code
> > > > > folding. 
> > > > > THe
> > > > > former tends
> > > > > to make things bigger, but faster.  The latter tends to
> > > > > shrink
> > > > > code
> > > > > with little
> > > > > impact on runtime performance.
> > > > 
> > > > From what I see in this case, -ffat-lto-objects generates code
> > > > that
> > > > is
> > > > bigger than without -flto. -flto alone generates smaller code
> > > > than
> > > > without -flto.
> > > The fat-lto-objects bits are not used during an LTO link.  They
> > > exist
> > > solely to
> > > cover the case where there's a .o/.a that ends up installed.
> > 
> > Well, I tell what I see :)
> > 
> > Compiling kitty with settings below produces this big
> > /usr/lib64/kitty/kitty/fast_data_types.so:
> > 
> > * Without any LTO-related flags: 4.52 MB
> > * With -flto: 4.30 MB
> > * With -flto -ffat-lto-objects: 4.79 MB
> > 
> > Well, I did not run compilation multiple times but don't think it
> > will
> > change much.
> That's quite bizarre.  I'll put it on the list of things to
> investigate.

Hi Jeff,

Any news about this issue?

> jeff
> 

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Igor Raits 
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Re: Switching package to fragmented default configuration

2020-08-29 Thread Igor Raits
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On Sat, 2020-08-29 at 11:02 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> On Saturday, August 29, 2020 1:00:17 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote:
> > On 8/28/20 9:40 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> > 
> > > Please don't invent a new logic, especially the one that systemd
> > > does.
> > > This makes it very difficult to figure out where in the world the
> > > configuration file for a given program is. With systemd, sure,
> > > it's not
> > > so bad, as the
> > 
> > System defaults go in /usr/share/.  Admin overrides go in
> > /etc.
> 
> If you're going to put defaults anywhere, /etc is the most logical
> place. When 
> admins want to override, they'll modify the files that are there.
> See, for 
> example, /etc/resolv.conf, the file used to tell the system resolver
> what DNS 
> servers to use. By default, it's generated by your installer or by 
> NetworkManager. When modified, it's now using "admin overrides".

And only way to get to the distribution defaults is to download RPM
with matching version, unpack it and get its /etc/foo.conf. When
default distribution configs are in /usr, then you can easily remove
config from /etc and that's it.

> > > command will tell you where the unit file is. There's no such
> > > command for,
> > > for example, chronyd, httpd or any other program that itself
> > > isn't using
> > > such a convoluted configuration system. Even systemd wouldn't
> > > work if you
> > > blew away / etc.
> > 
> > 
> > It should.  If not, that's where they want to get to.
> 
> What is the actual benefit of this? Needlessly breaking existing 
> configuration, making it impossible to cleanly upgrade systems, 
> or write logic that takes into account the existing configuration of
> a given 
> program? If you blow away /etc/, you will have a well and truly
> broken system. 
> If you want to start a configuration from scratch, re-install.
> There's nothing 
> wrong with that approach, and it works very well. This has been the
> case for 
> nearly three decades now.

First of all, as long as /etc/foo.conf location stays same, it takes
precedence over the /usr configuration, so nothing will be broken on
the update.

> -- 
> John M. Harris, Jr.
> 
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[rpms/perl-Class-DBI] PR #1: Improve compatibility with EL8

2020-08-20 Thread Igor Raits

ignatenkobrain opened a new pull-request against the project: `perl-Class-DBI` 
that you are following:
``
Improve compatibility with EL8
``

To reply, visit the link below
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/perl-Class-DBI/pull-request/1
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Re: What to do about FTBFS because auf cmake change?

2020-08-06 Thread Igor Raits
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On Thu, 2020-08-06 at 07:48 +, Martin Gansser wrote:
> what do I have to do if I want to keep the timestamp?
> 
> %install
> %make_install INSTALL="install -p"
> 
> 
> %cmake_install INSTALL="install -p" did not work.

Just use %cmake_install.

> 
> Regards
> Martin
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Re: %{_vpath_builddir} needs to be in the Cmake packaging guidelines

2020-08-04 Thread Igor Raits
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On Mon, 2020-08-03 at 22:14 -0500, Richard Shaw wrote:
> Sometimes you need to get into the build directory, in my case for
> OpenColorIO I use help2man to generate some of the man pages.
> 
> I had to rely on the power of Google/Gmail to find Neal's response to
> one
> of my earlier emails to find the answer again...

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/CMake/

%__cmake_in_source_build

Controls whether builds are done in-source (when defined) or out-
of-source (when undefined). See the Defining source and build
directories for more information.

Links to:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/vpath/

Feel free to submit a PR to make it more visible.

> 
> %{_vpath_builddir}
> 
> But that begs the question, now that we have updated %cmake, and new
> %cmake_build & %cmake_install, why is it %_vpath_builddir and not
> %_cmake_builddir?
> 
> Thanks,
> Richard
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Re: The case of LTO when produced enlarged binaries

2020-07-24 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-07-24 at 14:27 -0600, Jeff Law wrote:
> On Fri, 2020-07-24 at 22:24 +0200, Igor Raits wrote:
> > On Fri, 2020-07-24 at 13:29 -0600, Jeff Law wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2020-07-24 at 19:12 +, Artem Tim wrote:
> > > > Hi. In rare cases building packages with LTO producing binaries
> > > > or
> > > > libraries which have bigger size then if they have built
> > > > without
> > > > LTO. For example 'kitty' package:
> > > > 
> > > > * with LTO:
> > > >   - koji task 
> > > > https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=47762998
> > > > 1.79 MB glfw-wayland.so
> > > > 1.99 MB glfw-x11.so
> > > > 4.78 MB fast_data_types.so
> > > > 8.56 MB total
> > > > 
> > > > * no LTO
> > > >   - koji 
> > > > https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=47769854
> > > > 1.65 MB glfw-wayland.so
> > > > 1.84 MB glfw-x11.so
> > > > 4.51 MB fast_data_types.so
> > > > 8.00 MB total
> > > > 
> > > > Difference is 7%. What we should do in such case? Should we
> > > > disable
> > > > LTO for such packages? Or there is still could be gains from
> > > > faster
> > > > code execution speed?
> > > I'd tend to leave LTO on, but it's totally your call.  Without
> > > looking at the
> > > binaries, sources and compiler dumps I'd hazard a guess you're
> > > getting a lot of
> > > cross module inlining, but very little identical code folding. 
> > > THe
> > > former tends
> > > to make things bigger, but faster.  The latter tends to shrink
> > > code
> > > with little
> > > impact on runtime performance.
> > 
> > From what I see in this case, -ffat-lto-objects generates code that
> > is
> > bigger than without -flto. -flto alone generates smaller code than
> > without -flto.
> The fat-lto-objects bits are not used during an LTO link.  They exist
> solely to
> cover the case where there's a .o/.a that ends up installed.

Well, I tell what I see :)

Compiling kitty with settings below produces this big
/usr/lib64/kitty/kitty/fast_data_types.so:

* Without any LTO-related flags: 4.52 MB
* With -flto: 4.30 MB
* With -flto -ffat-lto-objects: 4.79 MB

Well, I did not run compilation multiple times but don't think it will
change much.

> jeff
> > 
> 

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Igor Raits 
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Re: The case of LTO when produced enlarged binaries

2020-07-24 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On Fri, 2020-07-24 at 13:29 -0600, Jeff Law wrote:
> On Fri, 2020-07-24 at 19:12 +, Artem Tim wrote:
> > Hi. In rare cases building packages with LTO producing binaries or
> > libraries which have bigger size then if they have built without
> > LTO. For example 'kitty' package:
> > 
> > * with LTO:
> >   - koji task 
> > https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=47762998
> > 1.79 MB glfw-wayland.so
> > 1.99 MB glfw-x11.so
> > 4.78 MB fast_data_types.so
> > 8.56 MB total
> > 
> > * no LTO
> >   - koji 
> > https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=47769854
> > 1.65 MB glfw-wayland.so
> > 1.84 MB glfw-x11.so
> > 4.51 MB fast_data_types.so
> > 8.00 MB total
> > 
> > Difference is 7%. What we should do in such case? Should we disable
> > LTO for such packages? Or there is still could be gains from faster
> > code execution speed?
> I'd tend to leave LTO on, but it's totally your call.  Without
> looking at the
> binaries, sources and compiler dumps I'd hazard a guess you're
> getting a lot of
> cross module inlining, but very little identical code folding.  THe
> former tends
> to make things bigger, but faster.  The latter tends to shrink code
> with little
> impact on runtime performance.

- From what I see in this case, -ffat-lto-objects generates code that is
bigger than without -flto. -flto alone generates smaller code than
without -flto.

> Unfortunately comparing this stuff in an LTO world is much harder
> than in a non-
> LTO world.  You can't just bisect it to a .o or function that's
> larger :(
> 
> 
> jeff
> > 
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Re: License change for rust-crossbeam-channel

2020-07-22 Thread Igor Raits
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On Wed, 2020-07-22 at 11:41 -0700, Josh Stone wrote:
> rust-crossbeam-channel-0.4.3-1.fc33 has changed its license from a
> combined "(MIT or ASL 2.0) and BSD" to just "MIT or ASL 2.0".
> See also: https://github.com/crossbeam-rs/crossbeam/issues/536

Cool! That means now we can remove `and BSD` from most of the binary
crates. Though now there is some other dep now bringing up `zlib`
license

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Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo Meeting (2020-07-22)

2020-07-22 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Re-sending with the proper subject..

=
#fedora-meeting-2: FESCO (2020-07-22)
=


Meeting started by ignatenkobrain at 14:01:00 UTC. The full logs are
available at
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2020-07-22/fesco.2020-07-22-14.01.log.html
.



Meeting summary
- ---
* init process  (ignatenkobrain, 14:01:13)

* #2448 F33 Self-Contained Change: PostgreSQL 13  (ignatenkobrain,
  14:06:06)
  * AGREED: Give one more week for the change owners to respond (+7, 0,
-0)  (ignatenkobrain, 14:10:27)

* #2440 F33 System-Wide Change: Patches in Forge macros - Auto macros -
  Detached rpm changelogs  (ignatenkobrain, 14:10:35)
  * LINK:
   
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Patches_in_Forge_macros_-_Auto_macros_-_Detached_rpm_changelogs#Fully_automated_packaging
(King_InuYasha, 14:15:49)
  * LINK: https://github.com/rpm-software-management/rpm/pull/1239
(King_InuYasha, 14:39:43)
  * AGREED: Ask @nim to clarify the proposal on those questions,
revisit
when we have the answers (+6, 1, -0)  (ignatenkobrain, 14:44:08)

* Next week's chair  (ignatenkobrain, 14:44:20)
  * ACTION: decathorpe will chair next meeting  (ignatenkobrain,
14:46:55)

* Open Floor  (ignatenkobrain, 14:46:59)

* #2445 Proposal: Make the "shortcut" decision process require a
  specific request and assent  (ignatenkobrain, 15:02:12)
  * AGREED: APPROVED (+8, 0, -0), bcotton will squash commits
(ignatenkobrain, 15:06:01)

* Open Floor  (ignatenkobrain, 15:06:10)
  * LINK: https://pagure.io/flock   (King_InuYasha, 15:07:11)
  * ACTION: ignatenkobrain to submit FESCo session for Flock
(ignatenkobrain, 15:08:30)

Meeting ended at 15:11:52 UTC.




Action Items
- 
* decathorpe will chair next meeting
* ignatenkobrain to submit FESCo session for Flock




Action Items, by person
- ---
* decathorpe
  * decathorpe will chair next meeting
* ignatenkobrain
  * ignatenkobrain to submit FESCo session for Flock
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
- ---
* King_InuYasha (87)
* ignatenkobrain (54)
* sgallagh (37)
* zbyszek (34)
* decathorpe (32)
* nirik (25)
* zodbot (25)
* bcotton (13)
* mhroncok (11)
* cverna (10)
* cmurf (5)
* RaphGro (3)
* pingou (1)
* Conan_Kudo (0)
* Eighth_Doctor (0)
* dcantrell (0)
* Sir_Gallantmon (0)
* Son_Goku (0)
* Pharaoh_Atem (0)




Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4

.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
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Igor Raits 
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Re: Schedule for Wednesday's FESCo Meeting (2020-07-22)

2020-07-22 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

=
#fedora-meeting-2: FESCO (2020-07-22)
=


Meeting started by ignatenkobrain at 14:01:00 UTC. The full logs are
available at
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2020-07-22/fesco.2020-07-22-14.01.log.html
.



Meeting summary
- ---
* init process  (ignatenkobrain, 14:01:13)

* #2448 F33 Self-Contained Change: PostgreSQL 13  (ignatenkobrain,
  14:06:06)
  * AGREED: Give one more week for the change owners to respond (+7, 0,
-0)  (ignatenkobrain, 14:10:27)

* #2440 F33 System-Wide Change: Patches in Forge macros - Auto macros -
  Detached rpm changelogs  (ignatenkobrain, 14:10:35)
  * LINK:
   
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Patches_in_Forge_macros_-_Auto_macros_-_Detached_rpm_changelogs#Fully_automated_packaging
(King_InuYasha, 14:15:49)
  * LINK: https://github.com/rpm-software-management/rpm/pull/1239
(King_InuYasha, 14:39:43)
  * AGREED: Ask @nim to clarify the proposal on those questions,
revisit
when we have the answers (+6, 1, -0)  (ignatenkobrain, 14:44:08)

* Next week's chair  (ignatenkobrain, 14:44:20)
  * ACTION: decathorpe will chair next meeting  (ignatenkobrain,
14:46:55)

* Open Floor  (ignatenkobrain, 14:46:59)

* #2445 Proposal: Make the "shortcut" decision process require a
  specific request and assent  (ignatenkobrain, 15:02:12)
  * AGREED: APPROVED (+8, 0, -0), bcotton will squash commits
(ignatenkobrain, 15:06:01)

* Open Floor  (ignatenkobrain, 15:06:10)
  * LINK: https://pagure.io/flock   (King_InuYasha, 15:07:11)
  * ACTION: ignatenkobrain to submit FESCo session for Flock
(ignatenkobrain, 15:08:30)

Meeting ended at 15:11:52 UTC.




Action Items
- 
* decathorpe will chair next meeting
* ignatenkobrain to submit FESCo session for Flock




Action Items, by person
- ---
* decathorpe
  * decathorpe will chair next meeting
* ignatenkobrain
  * ignatenkobrain to submit FESCo session for Flock
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
- ---
* King_InuYasha (87)
* ignatenkobrain (54)
* sgallagh (37)
* zbyszek (34)
* decathorpe (32)
* nirik (25)
* zodbot (25)
* bcotton (13)
* mhroncok (11)
* cverna (10)
* cmurf (5)
* RaphGro (3)
* pingou (1)
* Conan_Kudo (0)
* Eighth_Doctor (0)
* dcantrell (0)
* Sir_Gallantmon (0)
* Son_Goku (0)
* Pharaoh_Atem (0)




Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4

.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
- -- 
Igor Raits 
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Schedule for Wednesday's FESCo Meeting (2020-07-22)

2020-07-22 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Following is the list of topics that will be discussed in the
FESCo meeting Wednesday at 14:00UTC in #fedora-meeting-2 on
irc.freenode.net.

To convert UTC to your local time, take a look at
  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UTCHowto

or run:
  date -d '2020-07-22 14:00 UTC'


Links to all issues to be discussed can be found at: 
https://pagure.io/fesco/report/meeting_agenda

= Discussed and Voted in the Ticket =

F33 System-Wide Change: Use %make_build and %make_install macros
https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2420
APPROVED (+5, 0, -0)

F33 System-Wide Change: Golang 1.15
https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2450
APPROVED (+7, 0, -0)

= Followups =

#topic #2440 F33 System-Wide Change: Patches in Forge macros - Auto
macros - Detached rpm changelogs
https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2440

= New business =

#topic #2448 F33 Self-Contained Change: PostgreSQL 13
https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2448

= Open Floor = 

For more complete details, please visit each individual
issue.  The report of the agenda items can be found at
https://pagure.io/fesco/report/meeting_agenda

If you would like to add something to this agenda, you can
reply to this e-mail, file a new issue at
https://pagure.io/fesco, e-mail me directly, or bring it
up at the end of the meeting, during the open floor topic. Note
that added topics may be deferred until the following meeting. 
- -- 
Igor Raits 
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Re: make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.

2020-07-22 Thread Igor Raits
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On Wed, 2020-07-22 at 07:24 +, Martin Gansser wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> cant't built guayadeque on rawhide [1] but on f32 [2] it works.
> 
> [1] 
> https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org//work/tasks/4781/47574781/build.log
> [2] 
> https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org//packages/guayadeque/0.4.7/0.16.20200717git3c54f64.fc32/data/logs/x86_64/build.log
> 
> how can i solve this ?

https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/guayadeque/c/00777277ceb0436439e0f670f3460e7bbe1c5984?branch=master

> 
> Ragards
> Martin
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[EPEL-devel] Re: Puppet 6 in EPEL 8

2020-07-14 Thread Igor Raits
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On Tue, 2020-07-14 at 10:35 -0400, Breno Brand Fernandes wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've just pushed puppet 6 (agent) to EPEL 8 (testing) today [1].
> 
> If you use puppet 6 and have a moment to test it or want to have a
> look
> at/review the spec file [2], that would be nice. I've been testing it
> for a
> couple of months, and for my use, it seems all good.
> 
> Feel free to PM me with any suggestions, questions, fixes, etc.
> I don't plan to make bigger changes to it, though, since it seems
> stable.
> 
> FYI, the next step will be submitting puppetserver 6 to package
> review.
> 
> 1 https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-EPEL-2020-e13502b7fa
> 2 https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/puppet/blob/epel8/f/puppet.spec

Any plans for making an update in Fedora Rawhide too?

> Thanks.
> 
> - Breno
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Re: SwapOnZRAM and how it affects earlyoom thresholds

2020-07-13 Thread Igor Raits
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On Tue, 2020-07-14 at 01:28 +0900, Alexey A. wrote:
> > The most
> > common value I've found over a long period of time, for swap
> > without
> > hibernation is 50% of RAM.
> 
> With low RAM (2G) it's easy to use swap on zram with disksize = 150%
> MemTotal with opening browsers.
> 
> 50% maybe OK with MemTotal=8G.
> 
> > I'd like to hear from Alexey what he thinks about further reducing
> > the
> > values in earlyoom versus possibly raising the cap in
> > zram-generator-defaults.
> 
> It may be OK to reduce mem cap to 200 MiB. This threshold also can
> work
> well and may be sufficient to prevent freezing.
> 
> I would suggest to increase zram disksize caps up to 75% and maybe to
> 6GB.

Please open ticket upstream with some more details, please.

> пт, 10 июл. 2020 г. в 01:19, Chris Murphy :
> 
> > On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 9:49 AM Rex Dieter 
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > part of some irc discussions on
> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/KDEEarlyOOM
> > > 
> > > raised my attention to related item,
> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SwapOnZRAM
> > > 
> > > As it stands currently with earlyoom, it's default thresholds are
> > > 4% ram
> > and
> > > 10% swap before it acts.  That's fine and dandy.
> > > 
> > > Upon reading the SwapOnZRAM feature proposal, I see it is
> > > advocating
> > > allocating 50% of ram for swap.  I'd like folks to consider and
> > > evaluate
> > how
> > > this impacts earlyoom.  It effectively makes the earlyoom memory
> > threshold
> > > double (right?).  If so, at least think about lowering 4 to (2 or
> > > 3),
> > since
> > > that will make earlyoom's behavior closer to before swaponzram
> > > was
> > > introduced.
> > > 
> > > Thoughts?
> > 
> > The net effect is that earlyoom is more likely to trigger than with
> > a
> > disk based swap because right now disk based swap is huge by
> > default.
> > It's huge by default to accommodate a hibernation image. The most
> > common value I've found over a long period of time, for swap
> > without
> > hibernation is 50% of RAM. So this approximates those expectations.
> > 
> > I'd like to hear from Alexey what he thinks about further reducing
> > the
> > values in earlyoom versus possibly raising the cap in
> > zram-generator-defaults. I don't want to get too carried away
> > there,
> > because we are applying this to upgrades (wherever the to-be-
> > obsoleted
> > 'zram' package exists already even if not enabled). There is an
> > opportunity, of course, right now and through beta testing, to keep
> > on
> > testing variations on both the size of the zram device used for
> > swap
> > and for earlyoom. But we also have another Fedora release, Fedora
> > 34.
> > So I'm more inclined to go conservative so long as that itself
> > isn't
> > causing problems.
> > 
> > One thing I'm a bit skeptical of with reducing earlyoom's triggers
> > is
> > that free memory is needed for the recovery from an actual kill.
> > Usually this is just sigterm. That's the first attempt. If that
> > doesn't work then earlyoom issues sigkill, which is at a lower
> > threshold already.
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Chris Murphy
> > ___
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Re: Reserve resources for active users (Workstation) - Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal

2020-07-11 Thread Igor Raits
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On Sat, 2020-07-11 at 10:33 +0200, Benjamin Berg wrote:
> On Sat, 2020-07-11 at 08:43 +0200, Igor Raits wrote:
> > On Fri, 2020-07-10 at 15:55 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
> > >  
> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Reserve_resources_for_active_user_WS
> > > 
> > > == Summary ==
> > > This proposal adds cgroup based resource protections for the
> > > active
> > > graphical session. This is done by passing a memory protection of
> > > 250MiB to active users (capped at 10% of system memory) and by
> > > enabling other cgroup controllers (CPU, IO) to ensure important
> > > session processes get the resources they need.
> > 
> > Just curious, why 250MiB and not some other number?
> 
> Initially, it was an educated guess (i.e. it seemed low enough to be
> reasonable and high enough to be useful).
> 
> I then continued to do a bit of experimentation and found that my
> gnome-shell would stop page-faulting quite a lot if I gave the
> session
> processes >=350MiB of memory (measured by manually setting memory.max
> and using "perf trace -F -p X").
> 
> Tejun suggests it is sufficient to protect around 50-75% of the
> required memory, so 250MiB still seemed like a reasonable value after
> those tests.
> 
> Note that it is easy to change, simpliy modify /etc/uresourced.conf
> (and, ideally reboot to ensure it is properly applied to your user
> session).

Thanks for detailed answer!

> > > See: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/154
> > > 
> > > == Owner ==
> > > * Name: [[User:benzea|Benjamin Berg]]
> > > * Email: bb...@redhat.com
> > > * Product: Workstation
> > > * Responsible WG: Workstation
> > > 
> > > 
> > > == Detailed Description ==
> > > Graphical sessions should always be responsive, even when the
> > > machine
> > > is doing a lot work or in the extreme case has started to thrash.
> > > We
> > > have started to ship EarlyOOM with F32, however, while it is a
> > > good
> > > solution to this date, it is shipped with the understanding of
> > > being
> > > superseded by other approaches in the future.
> > 
> > Does it mean we do not ship earlyoom anymore or what is this
> > sentence
> > supposed to indicate?
> 
> EarlyOOM is still very useful today. However, from my point of view,
> EarlyOOM is just an intermediate measure until a more advanced
> solution
> is implemented and can be rolled out to users. This solution will be
> based on oomd (or rather systemd-oomd) and will make heavy use of
> cgroups to work well.

My question was more targeted whether we are not going to ship anymore
earlyoom by default with this change or will they be both shipped at
thie moment until something better is ready?

> This is a longer path, shipping uresourced puts us a step further
> down
> that road.
> 
> > [SNIP]
> 
> Benjamin
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Re: Reserve resources for active users (Workstation) - Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal

2020-07-11 Thread Igor Raits
unning mprime
> (http://www.mersenne.org/ftp_root/gimps/p95v298b6.linux64.tar.gz);
> choose local stress test, repeat by selecting 15 NOTE: mcatanzaro
> has reported a huge impact, with both the session remaining mostly
> responsive and EarlyOOM not kicking in (this makes sense, as overall
> memory pressure is much lower, i.e. the session is waiting on memory
> related IO less). The proposal owners have not been able to reproduce
> this corner case so far.
> * Log in two user A and B (same seat), run `stress-ng -c NCPUS` in
> both. Switch between them and look at `top` to verify that the active
> user gets a 5 times higher CPU share overall.
> 
> == User Experience ==
> See other sections.
> 
> == Dependencies ==
> There are no further dependencies.
> 
> == Contingency Plan ==
> * Contingency mechanism: Remove uresourced from the default install
> set and possibly also remove the preset again
> * Contingency deadline: Final freeze
> * Blocks release? No
> 
> == Documentation ==
> Upstream is identical to the change owner. The upstream repository
> has
> a further README https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/benzea/uresourced
> (which should not contain any more information than what is here).
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ben Cotton
> He / Him / His
> Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream
> Red Hat
> TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
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Re: PSA: dnf autoremove cleans fedora-repos-modular

2020-07-09 Thread Igor Raits
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On Thu, 2020-07-09 at 07:35 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> On Thursday, July 9, 2020 3:55:44 AM MST Igor Raits wrote:
> > I don't know where / which the fix should be: DNF, comps or both.
> > Simply putting the fedora-repos-modular in comps won't help since
> > DNF
> > is only using them when running `group install/update/remove`.
> 
> What's to fix? Sounds like a feature, not a bug. It's well reasoned
> above, 
> nothing depends on it.

While it is behaving as it technically should, this is unexpected for
the users. That's the only reason why I brought it here.

> -- 
> John M. Harris, Jr.
> 
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Re: PSA: dnf autoremove cleans fedora-repos-modular

2020-07-09 Thread Igor Raits
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On Thu, 2020-07-09 at 07:36 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> On Thursday, July 9, 2020 5:24:59 AM MST Petr Pisar wrote:
> > DNF should perform "dnf mark install fedora-repos-rawhide-modular"
> > action on
> > a system upgrade, because we want that package to be prensented on
> > the
> > system. However I worry that DNF does not possess a capability for
> > doing
> > it. (Except of injecting that command into some externally executed
> > script.)
> 
> Unless I'm mistaken, it should only be present if the user manually
> installed 
> it, and opted into modularity, right?

No, it should be installed by default.

> -- 
> John M. Harris, Jr.
> 
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PSA: dnf autoremove cleans fedora-repos-modular

2020-07-09 Thread Igor Raits
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Hello,

One just noticed that `dnf autoremove` is trying to remove `fedora-
repos-modular` and `fedora-repos-rawhide-modular`.

tl;dr. fedora-repos-modular inherit installation reason from fedora-
repos (DEPENDENCY) and nothing depends on fedora-repos-modular so it is
not needed anymore (from the solver POV).

The fedora-repos is being pulled in by fedora-release-common (that is
brought by fedora-release-workstation or others). fedora-repos is not
part of the @core group in comps so its reason recorded in DNF DB is 1.

enum class TransactionItemReason : int {
UNKNOWN = 0,
DEPENDENCY = 1,
USER = 2,
CLEAN = 3, // hawkey compatibility
WEAK_DEPENDENCY = 4,
GROUP = 5
};

On my laptop:

❯ sqlite3 /var/lib/dnf/history.sqlite
sqlite> select trans_id,name,epoch,version,release,reason from
trans_item join rpm on rpm.item_id=trans_item.item_id where name like
'fedora-release%' or name like 'fedora-repos%';
1|fedora-release-common|0|33|0.8|1
1|fedora-release-identity-workstation|0|33|0.8|1
1|fedora-release-workstation|0|33|0.8|5
1|fedora-repos|0|33|0.6|1
1|fedora-repos-rawhide|0|33|0.6|1
21|fedora-release-common|0|33|0.9|1
21|fedora-release-common|0|33|0.8|1
21|fedora-release-identity-workstation|0|33|0.9|1
21|fedora-release-identity-workstation|0|33|0.8|1
21|fedora-release-workstation|0|33|0.9|5
21|fedora-release-workstation|0|33|0.8|5
143|fedora-repos-modular|0|33|0.8|1
143|fedora-repos-rawhide-modular|0|33|0.8|1
143|fedora-repos|0|33|0.8|1
143|fedora-repos|0|33|0.6|1
143|fedora-repos-rawhide|0|33|0.8|1
143|fedora-repos-rawhide|0|33|0.6|1

The packages that have been brought by the obsoletes inherit reason
(DEPENDENCY in this case) and since nothing depends on those they are
automatically cleaned up on the autoremove.

I don't know where / which the fix should be: DNF, comps or both.
Simply putting the fedora-repos-modular in comps won't help since DNF
is only using them when running `group install/update/remove`.


So sending this email just in case somebody will see this interesting
behavior.
- -- 
Igor Raits 
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CMake to do out-of-source builds

2020-07-08 Thread Igor Raits
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On Wed, 2020-07-08 at 14:13 +0200, Vitaly Zaitsev via devel wrote:
> On 07.07.2020 19:57, Orion Poplawski wrote:
> > What's the plan for EPEL8/7 compatibility?
> 
> +1. The new Cmake macros behaviour must be backported to EPEL7/8.

Feel free to submit patches to cmake3 and epel-rpm-macros.

> Currently all fixed by proven packages SPEC files cannot be built on
> EPEL branches.
> 
> -- 
> Sincerely,
>   Vitaly Zaitsev (vit...@easycoding.org)
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CMake to do out-of-source builds

2020-07-08 Thread Igor Raits
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Hash: SHA512

On Wed, 2020-07-08 at 09:12 +0800, Qiyu Yan wrote:
> Richard Shaw  于 2020年7月8日周三 上午6:11写道:
> 
> > Ok, so it appears this change was for F32+ only, so I can't merge
> > master
> > into f32 or earlier...
> > 
>  Maybe wait it to be backported into f31. The documents said this
> will be
> backported into older supported version.
> 
> But now, merging master into older version is impossible, can cause
> FTBTS.

https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2020-a66614733c
https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2020-2b99724ef6

Test them and leave karma please :)

> 
> > 
> > This whole change is still broken AF.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Richard
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CMake to do out-of-source builds

2020-07-08 Thread Igor Raits
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Hash: SHA512

On Tue, 2020-07-07 at 11:57 -0600, Orion Poplawski wrote:
> On 6/15/20 1:47 PM, Ben Cotton wrote:
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/CMake_to_do_out-of-source_builds
> > 
> > == Summary ==
> > %cmake macro will be adjusted (-B
> > parameter)
> > to use separate build folder (already standardized
> > %{_vpath_builddir} macro). Additionally,
> > %cmake_build, %cmake_install and
> > %ctest macro will be created (and backported to the
> > older
> > supported Fedora releases) to perform various operations that are
> > commonly used with CMake in a backend-agnostic (Makefiles, Ninja,
> > etc.) way.
> > 
> > Packages that will stop building are trivial to fix and will be
> > adjusted either by maintainers or change owners.
> > 
> > == Owner ==
> > * Name: [[User:ignatenkobrain|Igor Raits]], [[User:besser82|Björn
> > Esser]], [[User:ngompa|Neal Gompa]]
> > * Email: ignatenkobr...@fedoraproject.org, 
> > besse...@fedoraproject.org,
> > ngomp...@gmail.com
> > 
> > == Detailed Description ==
> > Historically, software builds had a singular build configuration
> > and
> > required running the build within the project root. Nowadays, there
> > are many build modes and options that can be configured in
> > projects,
> > different build settings (e.g. compiler flags) / types (release,
> > debug) that can be applied and different tools that can be used to
> > actually execute builds (compilers like gcc/clang, build job
> > schedulers like make/ninja, and so on). Thus, CMake upstream
> > strongly
> > discourages users of doing in-source builds and recommends doing
> > out-of-source builds.
> > 
> >  From cmake.1:
> > 
> > 
> > To maintain a pristine source tree, perform an out-of-source build
> > by
> > using a separate dedicated build tree. An in-source build in which
> > the
> > build tree is placed in the same directory as the source tree is
> > also
> > supported, but discouraged.
> > 
> > 
> > The other part of the change is introduction of additional macros
> > is
> > creation of set of macro that can build, install and run tests in a
> > backend-agnostic, vpath-aware (out-of-source, in-source) way.
> > 
> > === Migration ===
> > 
> >  %cmake +
> > %(make|ninja)_(build|install) 
> > 
> > There are multiple paths to complete the migration:
> > 
> > * Add -C "%{_vpath_builddir}" to the
> > %(make|ninja)_*
> > * Replace %(make|ninja)_build and
> > %(make|ninja)_install with %cmake_build
> > and
> > %cmake_install respectively
> > * Redefine vpath builddir %global _vpath_builddir . to
> > continue performing in-source builds (and optionally converting to
> > the
> > %cmake_*)
> > 
> > Depending on the package, one of these options may be used to adapt
> > to
> > this change.
> > 
> >  %cmake -B builddir +
> > %(make|ninja)_(build|install) -C builddir 
> > 
> > No changes are needed.
> > 
> > == Benefit to Fedora ==
> > * Follow CMake upstream recommendations when building packages
> > * Brings Fedora package builds more in-line with how upstream
> > projects
> > expect them to be built
> > * Improve compatibility with other RPM distributions that already
> > do this
> > * Support backend-agnostic way of building CMake projects
> > 
> > == Scope ==
> > * Proposal owners: Implement necessary macros, try to build
> > packages
> > that BuildRequires: cmake in a side tag, analyze
> > failures
> > and fix the relevant ones (introduced by this change).
> > * Other developers: While proposal owners will try to fix all
> > affected
> > packages, there might be some cases where package is already FTBFS
> > so
> > the fix can't be performed. Other package maintainers will have to
> > fix
> > the issue themselves after they fix FTBFS.
> > * Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issue/9524 #9524]
> > * Policies and guidelines: CMake page will be adjusted to mention
> > newly created macros and the documentation about relevant VPATH
> > macros
> > needs to be restructured a bit (they are already documented on the
> > Meson page, they need to be moved to the separate page and
> > referenced
> > both from CMake and Meson page).
> > * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
> > 
> > == Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
> > Existin

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CMake to do out-of-source builds

2020-07-08 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On Tue, 2020-07-07 at 12:07 -0600, Orion Poplawski wrote:
> On 6/15/20 1:47 PM, Ben Cotton wrote:
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/CMake_to_do_out-of-source_builds
> > 
> > == Summary ==
> > %cmake macro will be adjusted (-B
> > parameter)
> > to use separate build folder (already standardized
> > %{_vpath_builddir} macro). Additionally,
> > %cmake_build, %cmake_install and
> > %ctest macro will be created (and backported to the
> > older
> > supported Fedora releases) to perform various operations that are
> > commonly used with CMake in a backend-agnostic (Makefiles, Ninja,
> > etc.) way.
> > 
> > Packages that will stop building are trivial to fix and will be
> > adjusted either by maintainers or change owners.
> > 
> > == Owner ==
> > * Name: [[User:ignatenkobrain|Igor Raits]], [[User:besser82|Björn
> > Esser]], [[User:ngompa|Neal Gompa]]
> > * Email: ignatenkobr...@fedoraproject.org, 
> > besse...@fedoraproject.org,
> > ngomp...@gmail.com
> > 
> > == Detailed Description ==
> > Historically, software builds had a singular build configuration
> > and
> > required running the build within the project root. Nowadays, there
> > are many build modes and options that can be configured in
> > projects,
> > different build settings (e.g. compiler flags) / types (release,
> > debug) that can be applied and different tools that can be used to
> > actually execute builds (compilers like gcc/clang, build job
> > schedulers like make/ninja, and so on). Thus, CMake upstream
> > strongly
> > discourages users of doing in-source builds and recommends doing
> > out-of-source builds.
> > 
> >  From cmake.1:
> > 
> > 
> > To maintain a pristine source tree, perform an out-of-source build
> > by
> > using a separate dedicated build tree. An in-source build in which
> > the
> > build tree is placed in the same directory as the source tree is
> > also
> > supported, but discouraged.
> > 
> > 
> > The other part of the change is introduction of additional macros
> > is
> > creation of set of macro that can build, install and run tests in a
> > backend-agnostic, vpath-aware (out-of-source, in-source) way.
> > 
> > === Migration ===
> > 
> >  %cmake +
> > %(make|ninja)_(build|install) 
> > 
> > There are multiple paths to complete the migration:
> > 
> > * Add -C "%{_vpath_builddir}" to the
> > %(make|ninja)_*
> > * Replace %(make|ninja)_build and
> > %(make|ninja)_install with %cmake_build
> > and
> > %cmake_install respectively
> > * Redefine vpath builddir %global _vpath_builddir . to
> > continue performing in-source builds (and optionally converting to
> > the
> > %cmake_*)
> > 
> > Depending on the package, one of these options may be used to adapt
> > to
> > this change.
> > 
> >  %cmake -B builddir +
> > %(make|ninja)_(build|install) -C builddir 
> > 
> > No changes are needed.
> > 
> > == Benefit to Fedora ==
> > * Follow CMake upstream recommendations when building packages
> > * Brings Fedora package builds more in-line with how upstream
> > projects
> > expect them to be built
> > * Improve compatibility with other RPM distributions that already
> > do this
> > * Support backend-agnostic way of building CMake projects
> > 
> > == Scope ==
> > * Proposal owners: Implement necessary macros, try to build
> > packages
> > that BuildRequires: cmake in a side tag, analyze
> > failures
> > and fix the relevant ones (introduced by this change).
> > * Other developers: While proposal owners will try to fix all
> > affected
> > packages, there might be some cases where package is already FTBFS
> > so
> > the fix can't be performed. Other package maintainers will have to
> > fix
> > the issue themselves after they fix FTBFS.
> > * Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issue/9524 #9524]
> > * Policies and guidelines: CMake page will be adjusted to mention
> > newly created macros and the documentation about relevant VPATH
> > macros
> > needs to be restructured a bit (they are already documented on the
> > Meson page, they need to be moved to the separate page and
> > referenced
> > both from CMake and Meson page).
> > * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
> > 
> > == Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
> > Existing pa

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CMake to do out-of-source builds

2020-07-03 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Just wanted to provide some update on this change.

* %__cmake_in_source_build macro has been introduced and set to 1. It
controls what arguments are passed to `cmake -B ...`, `cmake --build
...`, `cmake --install ...` and in which directory `ctest` is executed.
If it is set to anything, it will use `.` as a directory so that build
is done in-place.
* %cmake now always passes -S/-B options.
* %cmake_build/%cmake_install/%ctest macros have been created.
* %cmake_kf5 changes are in progress by Neal at this moment.

So far these changes are not breaking (it becomes breaking if you unset
`%__cmake_in_source_build` macro), so we plan to backport them in
stable Fedora releases so that spec files can stay compatible across
Fedora branches.

I've ran scratch rebuilds of ~2k packages that are affected (not
including %cmake_kf5 changes yet). Only ~900 succeeeded (definitely
will be lower once we get %cmake_kf5 changes are in). The ones that
failed are:

* 141 use `cd builddir; cmake ..; make` pattern
* 823 use `cmake; make` pattern
* 96 failed for irrelevant or overlooked problem

Once %cmake_kf5 changes are ready, I'll start new mass-scratch-rebuild-
of-affected-packages.

NOW: I've booked 4 hours session this Sunday with Neal to go and fix
broken packages. If you are interested to help - let me know and I'll
send you an invitation.

Will keep you updated :)

On Mon, 2020-06-15 at 15:47 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/CMake_to_do_out-of-source_builds
> 
> == Summary ==
> %cmake macro will be adjusted (-B
> parameter)
> to use separate build folder (already standardized
> %{_vpath_builddir} macro). Additionally,
> %cmake_build, %cmake_install and
> %ctest macro will be created (and backported to the
> older
> supported Fedora releases) to perform various operations that are
> commonly used with CMake in a backend-agnostic (Makefiles, Ninja,
> etc.) way.
> 
> Packages that will stop building are trivial to fix and will be
> adjusted either by maintainers or change owners.
> 
> == Owner ==
> * Name: [[User:ignatenkobrain|Igor Raits]], [[User:besser82|Björn
> Esser]], [[User:ngompa|Neal Gompa]]
> * Email: ignatenkobr...@fedoraproject.org,
> besse...@fedoraproject.org,
> ngomp...@gmail.com
> 
> == Detailed Description ==
> Historically, software builds had a singular build configuration and
> required running the build within the project root. Nowadays, there
> are many build modes and options that can be configured in projects,
> different build settings (e.g. compiler flags) / types (release,
> debug) that can be applied and different tools that can be used to
> actually execute builds (compilers like gcc/clang, build job
> schedulers like make/ninja, and so on). Thus, CMake upstream strongly
> discourages users of doing in-source builds and recommends doing
> out-of-source builds.
> 
> From cmake.1:
> 
> 
> To maintain a pristine source tree, perform an out-of-source build by
> using a separate dedicated build tree. An in-source build in which
> the
> build tree is placed in the same directory as the source tree is also
> supported, but discouraged.
> 
> 
> The other part of the change is introduction of additional macros is
> creation of set of macro that can build, install and run tests in a
> backend-agnostic, vpath-aware (out-of-source, in-source) way.
> 
> === Migration ===
> 
>  %cmake + %(make|ninja)_(build|install)
> 
> 
> There are multiple paths to complete the migration:
> 
> * Add -C "%{_vpath_builddir}" to the
> %(make|ninja)_*
> * Replace %(make|ninja)_build and
> %(make|ninja)_install with %cmake_build and
> %cmake_install respectively
> * Redefine vpath builddir %global _vpath_builddir . to
> continue performing in-source builds (and optionally converting to
> the
> %cmake_*)
> 
> Depending on the package, one of these options may be used to adapt
> to
> this change.
> 
>  %cmake -B builddir +
> %(make|ninja)_(build|install) -C builddir 
> 
> No changes are needed.
> 
> == Benefit to Fedora ==
> * Follow CMake upstream recommendations when building packages
> * Brings Fedora package builds more in-line with how upstream
> projects
> expect them to be built
> * Improve compatibility with other RPM distributions that already do
> this
> * Support backend-agnostic way of building CMake projects
> 
> == Scope ==
> * Proposal owners: Implement necessary macros, try to build packages
> that BuildRequires: cmake in a side tag, analyze
> failures
> and fix the relevant ones (introduced by this change).
> * Other developers: While proposal owners will try to fix all
> affected
> packages, there might be some cases where packag

Re: mock build results for same .spec build different for local & online/COPR builds -- local OK, @copr FAILS ?

2020-07-02 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On Thu, 2020-07-02 at 18:00 -0700, PGNet Dev wrote:
> (i'd been discussing this issue with praiskup @ copr-devel/buildsys;
> he suggested that I bring it here ...)
> 
> This spec
> 
>   
> https://download.copr.fedorainfracloud.org/results/pgfed/nginx-mainline/fedora-32-x86_64/01516680-nginx/nginx.spec
> 
> which uses forgemeta to pull multiple SCM sources, and uses some
> git/bash scripting in %defines,
> 
> builds locally, on F32, via rpmbuild or mock build, from spec or
> srpm, with NO error.  resulting rpms are installable, usable & pass
> testing.
> 
> submitting the _same_ spec to COPR for online build FAILS @,
> supposedly, similar Mock build

By default COPR does not allow you to use internet though it can be
enabled in the project settings.

> Here's a diff
> 
>   https://www.diffchecker.com/izjQYkUF
> 
> comparing the log output of
> 
>   SUCCESSFUL LOCAL BUILD  
>   mock --buildsrpm --spec=~/rpmbuild/SPECS/nginx.spec --
> sources=~/rpmbuild/SOURCES
>   cat build.log   
> 
> and
>   
>   FAILED COPR BUILD
>   copr-cli build nginx-mainline ~/rpmbuild/SPECS/nginx.spec
>   
> https://download.copr.fedorainfracloud.org/results/pgfed/nginx-mainline/fedora-32-x86_64/01516674-nginx/builder-live.log.gz
>   
> The goal is to have the same spec generate the same Mock build,
> regardless of environment.
> 
> Why does the COPR build's Mock build stage fail?
> 
> IIUC, mock builds _should_ be portable between mock envs, at least
> for the same chroot.
> 
> Do I need additional prep of the spec prior to submit?  Something in
> my foregemeta/scm usage that's env-dependent? Something else I've
> missed?
> 
> Or is there an issue with the Mock build env @ COPR?
> ___
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Re: [Fedora-packaging] RPM-level auto release and changelog bumping - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-07-02 Thread Igor Raits
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On Thu, 2020-07-02 at 12:20 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot via devel wrote:
> Le 2020-07-02 11:59, Florian Weimer a écrit :
> > * Nicolas Mailhot via devel:
> > 
> > > Le 2020-07-02 09:59, Vitaly Zaitsev via devel a écrit :
> > > > On 02.07.2020 07:35, Nicolas Mailhot via devel wrote:
> > > > > The detached changelog is just one more file in SRPM sources,
> > > > > which 
> > > > > is
> > > > > modified by rpmbuild at `%build` time with other files
> > > > > rpmbuild
> > > > > modifies.
> > > > 
> > > > I don't like that. %changelog should be generated automatically
> > > > on 
> > > > Koji
> > > > side.
> > > 
> > > Why? Koji schedules a build.
> > 
> > No, Koji also builds the SRPM, via fedpkg-simple or a similar 
> > mechanism.
> 
> Sure, by build I intended both the deployment packages and the SRPM.
> 
> The main difference between the current workflow (the reason it fails
> in 
> mock right now, but that should not be too hard to fix) is that the
> SRPM 
> that includes the build info is itself a result of the rest of the 
> build.
> 
> That seems the main point people misunderstand (thank you for making
> me 
> clarify it), the proposal does not involve preparing a special SRPM
> out 
> of band, that is then fed to koji, the SRPM containing the bumped 
> changelog and last build info is the result of the build process 
> alongside the binary packages.
> 
> mock (and koji) just have to pick this SRPM at the end of the build
> and 
> not use the SRPM as it existed before the build occurred.

So who is going to implement necessary changes in mock and koji for
this proposal to be complete?

> And why is it that way? You do not consider a rpmbuild -bs a build
> event 
> do you? We do it all the time to import packages from one system to 
> another. The only thing which is a real build that produces a bump
> and 
> is stored in changelog history is a full rpmbuild -ba build.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> Nicolas Mailhot
> ___
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Re: [Fedora-packaging] RPM-level auto release and changelog bumping - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-07-02 Thread Igor Raits
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On Thu, 2020-07-02 at 11:27 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot via devel wrote:
> Le 2020-07-02 09:59, Vitaly Zaitsev via devel a écrit :
> > On 02.07.2020 07:35, Nicolas Mailhot via devel wrote:
> > > The detached changelog is just one more file in SRPM sources,
> > > which is
> > > modified by rpmbuild at `%build` time with other files rpmbuild
> > > modifies.
> > 
> > I don't like that. %changelog should be generated automatically on
> > Koji
> > side.
> 
> Why? Koji schedules a build. The build registers its own build date
> in 
> the produced packages. Koji decides to keep and commit the result, or
> drop it (scratch build, failed side tag, whatever). Koji is still in 
> charge, the bumping is just integrated in the build process with the 
> rest of the package creation.

I think Change Page does not mention that Koji will be committing
anything to the dist-git.

> And, unlike something done specifically by koji, the bumping will
> import 
> and export across all build systems, ie all the bumps that occurred
> in 
> rpmbuild, or mock, or copr, or obs, or whatever are imported in
> fedpkg 
> with the rest of the srpm, and an srpm produced by koji can import in
> rpmbuild, or mock, or copr, or obs, or whatever without loss of bump 
> information.
> 
> And you no longer waste hours wondering why a package you just fixed
> is 
> still failing on your test systems before realizing it is masked by 
> another build that did not share the same bump history.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> Nicolas Mailhot
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Re: [Fedora-packaging] Re: RPM-level auto release and changelog bumping - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-07-02 Thread Igor Raits
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On Thu, 2020-07-02 at 11:17 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> Le 2020-07-02 09:52, Florian Weimer a écrit :
> > * Nicolas Mailhot via devel:
> > 
> > > > How do I let rpm generate the changelog automatically?
> > > 
> > > This feature is not changelog generation, just changelog bumping
> > > on
> > > build events. You still need some other method to put non-build
> > > events
> > > in the changelog.
> > 
> > What is “changelog bumping”?  Why is it needed?  What about release
> > bumping?
> 
> Changelog bumping is the act of putting the actual release bump and 
> build time in the changelog.
> 
> With the change, the spec is able to self-compute its next release if
> the spec file evr is older or equal to the last build event.

How does it know that "last build event"?

> On build, it will both bump the release, without touching the spec
> file 
> (that is release bumping) and commit the new build event timestamp in
> the detached changelog file at %build time (that is changelog
> bumping).
> 
> > > The detached changelog is just one more file in SRPM sources,
> > > which is
> > > modified by rpmbuild at `%build` time with other files rpmbuild
> > > modifies. The tricky part is to modify the source file as a
> > > source 
> > > file
> > > so rpmbuild adds the result to the produced SRPM (and, that does
> > > not
> > > work in mock right now, because mock serves the SRPM that existed
> > > at
> > > the start, not at the end of the build. Though it’s probably just
> > > a
> > > matter of getting mock to call again its SRPM creation method at
> > > the
> > > end of the build).
> > > 
> > > The packager does not have to request the modification in his
> > > spec,
> > > it’s done as part of the various %auto_foo calls the change
> > > introduced
> > 
> > Can you list the relevant %auto macros explicitly somewhere?  Is
> > %autosetup included in the set of macros that trigger this
> > behavior?
> 
> %autosetup is not part of the new framework, all the new %auto entry 
> points have %auto_something name/
> 
> Auto release bumping and auto changelog bumping involve registering
> some 
> processing in the preamble (to compute the next evr), in %sourcelist
> (to 
> deal with the source files involved in saving state) in %build (to 
> commit the new data to disk once the build is ongoing) and in
> %changelog 
> (to get rpmbuild to record the new changelog state in package
> metadata)
> 
> ie it registers processing in %auto_pkg, %auto_sources, %auto_build
> and 
> %auto_changelog
> 
> The bumping is done by the buildsys subsystem ie practically by
> %new_package (called by %auto_pkg, directly or via %buildsys_pkg), by
> %buildsys_sources (called by %auto_sources), %buildsys_build (called
> by 
> %auto_build) and %buildsys_changelog (called by %auto_changelog).
> 
> It’s done by the buildsys subsystem because the %buildsys subsystem
> is 
> tasked with writing the SRPM header in the new %auto_call framework,
> so 
> only it knows which of the various (sub)package epochs and versions
> are 
> the ones that apply to the SRPM.
> 
> This may seem a bit complex and convoluted, but that’s because 
> autobumping
> 
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Patches_in_Forge_macros_-_Auto_macros_-_Detached_rpm_changelogs
> 
> is a small addition over the big %auto_macros change.
> 
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Patches_in_Forge_macros_-_Auto_macros_-_Detached_rpm_changelogs
> 
> And it is small because the big change provides all the low-level
> infra 
> to code such high level features easily.
> 
> The big change was not done for autobumping. It’s only once I coded
> it 
> for other packaging needs that I realized it made implementing 
> autobumping trivial (trivial to me after all the other changes, maybe
> not so trivial for the average macro reviewer).
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> Nicolas Mailhot
> ___
> packaging mailing list -- packag...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to 
> packaging-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Re: IBus 1.5.23 - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-30 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On Tue, 2020-06-30 at 15:20 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/IBus_1.5.23
> 
> == Summary ==
> IBus 1.5.23 will replace the allowlist of XKB engines with the
> blocklist of XKB ones.
> 
> == Owner ==
> * Name: [[User:Fujiwara| Takao Fujiwara]]
> * Email: fujiwara [at] redhat [dot] com
> 
> == Detailed Description ==
> IBus currently provides the allowlist of XKB engines in
> `/usr/share/ibus/component/simple.xml` and `ibus-setup` utility can
> show the XKB engines indicated in only that file in most desktops.
> (gnome-control-center shows XKB list from gnome-desktop3 in GNOME
> desktop instead.) The allowlist includes the limited XKB layouts and
> variants. E.g. 'gb(dvorak)' is included but 'gb' is not. And the
> allowlist has been supported to customize by sysadmin localy since
> the
> simple.xml is a simple text file and the default list has been
> updated
> upon the request.
> 
> IBus 1.5.23 will replace the allowlist with the blocklist which
> includes the disabled XKB engines and `ibus-setup` will shows all the
> XKB engines which are '''not''' indicated in that file.  The
> blocklist
> will includes 'cn' layout, 'cn' layout + any variants, 'nec_vndr/jp'
> layouts at the moment.
> 
> I.e. the change won't effect GNOME desktop.

So I do not fully understand this change. Is it actually breaking
something or not? If so, I am surprised it happens when bumping micro
version (.23). If not, does it have to be System-Wide change?

> == Benefit to Fedora ==
> The users don't have to request the desired XKB layouts and variants
> in IBus upstream and most XKB keymaps will be shown in ibus-setup.
> 
> == Scope ==
> * Proposal owners:
> * Other developers: N/A
> * Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issue/9563 #9563]
> * Policies and guidelines: N/A
> * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
> 
> == Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
> If a keymap is shown in ibus-setup in the previous version, it will
> be
> shown in the new one.
> 
> == How To Test ==
> # Log into XFCE desktop
> # Run ibus-setup
> 
> It will show 'English (UK)' keymap by default.
> 
> == User Experience ==
> If a user customize `/usr/share/ibus/component/simple.xml` in the
> previous version, the file will be replaced with new one.

I think it is pretty much expected that if you modify something in
/usr, it will be overriden by an update, no?

> == Dependencies ==
> The change effects XKB engines only but does not input method engines
> (E.g. libpinyin, hangul, and so on.)
> 
> == Contingency Plan ==
> * Contingency mechanism: Drop the feature in Fedora 33 and postpone
> it
> to Fedora 34
> * Contingency deadline: Beta freeze
> * Blocks release? No
> 
> == Documentation ==
> TBD
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ben Cotton
> He / Him / His
> Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream
> Red Hat
> TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
> ___
> devel-announce mailing list -- devel-annou...@lists.fedoraproject.org
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> devel-announce-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Re: [Fedora-packaging] Patches in Forge macros - Auto macros - Detached rpm changelogs - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-30 Thread Igor Raits
rpm
> lua API without blowing up on the landmines it is littered with.
> Therefore, I abstracted landmine avoidance in a single place.
> 
> === Drawbacks ===
> 
> Nothing is free, and a higher level of automation required using
> rigid
> naming for control variables. Because software is a lot less tolerant
> of fuzzy naming than human beings.
> 
> So, all forge control variables are renamed, fonts control variables
> have been renamed too, and go control variables will need renaming
> (in
> that last case, that’s not a problem because moving to go modules
> requires reworking variables anyway, so it will be done as part of
> the
> module effort in F34).
> 
> To ease the transition a compatibility layer was added to forge
> macros
> so old variables and new variables are aliased both ways (this will
> eventually go away because it’s quite a lot of compatibility code to
> maintain). Mixing syntaxes (old and new) is not supported, you need
> to
> convert your spec file to new forge variables or not at all (if not
> at
> all, do not try to use new features like patching).
> 
> == Benefit to Fedora ==
> 
> Spec files that do more with less manual expensive to maintain spec
> code.
> 
> Without this productivity win, complex efforts like converting Fedora
> Go packages to Go modules, or draining the Font packages swamp given
> that legacy formats are no longer supported by apps, are not possible
> with the current level of Fedora manpower.

So this came out of sudden, without any discussion with RPM upstream.
What about integration with Rust, Python, Ruby and Java ecosystems? Is
it planned for the future? Having something very generic,
unmaintainable and overcomplicated just for Go and Fonts does not make
much sense to me.

> == Scope ==
> * Proposal owners:
> The core of the feature is done and tested (and retested). It may
> evolve during the redhat-rpm-config merge process.
> 
> https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/redhat-rpm-config/pull-request/95
> 
> * Other developers:
> 
> The way current forge macros call forge macros will need a little
> patching once the change lands. For other packagers, there should be
> no change except a warning in rpm build logs to switch to the new
> syntax before the compatibility layer is removed.
> 
> * Release engineering: https://pagure.io/releng/issue/9565
> 
> * FPC: https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/issue/997
> 
> * Policies and guidelines:
>   Forge guidelines will need some rework (mostly simplification,
> because the new syntax is both more powerful and more regular).
>   For the average packager, the new syntax is the same old syntax
> with
> little naming adjustments (for example, %{forgeurl} becomes
> %{forge_url}, %forgemeta is subsumed into %auto_init, etc)
> 
> * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
> 
> 
> == Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
> 
> This is a pure build tooling update, it changes how things are built
> not what is built.

This is not fully true, this will make those packages non-buildable on
older, supported, Fedora releases.

> == How To Test ==
> 
> A redhat-rpm-config packages with the changes and some example
> packages are available in
> 
>
> https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/nim/refactoring-forge-patches-auto-call-changelog-fonts/builds/

I think it would be useful to put concrete examples on the wiki page.

> == User Experience ==
> 
> N/A Packager experience change only
> 
> == Dependencies ==
> 
> The change depends on a redhat-rpm-config merge by redhat-rpm-config
> maintainers
> 
> == Contingency Plan ==
> 
> There is no contingency plan because the redhat-rpm-config merge will
> happen or not. If it does not happen, i18n, fonts and Go Changes that
> are/were envisioned for F33 or F34 will be postponed indefinitely.

Again, if this blows up, we need to know what needs to be reverted,
when and who will do that.

> == Documentation ==
> 
> There is as much documentation as the average redhat-rpm-config
> change
> (ie comments in the macro files themselves)
> 
> == Release Notes ==
> 
> N/A Packager productivity change only
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ben Cotton
> He / Him / His
> Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream
> Red Hat
> TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
> ___
> packaging mailing list -- packag...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to  
> packaging-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Fedora Code of Conduct:  
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
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> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
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Re: Introduce Storage Instantiation Daemon - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-30 Thread Igor Raits
> 
> * adding a centralized solution for delayed actions on storage
> devices
> and groups of devices (avoiding unnecessary work done within udev
> context and hence avoiding frequent udev timeouts when processing
> events for such devices)

Is this purely about adding some package into the repositories and just
to raise awarness that such tool exist?

> == Scope ==
> * Proposal owners:
> ** complete SID's infrastructure to fully support stabilized API for
> other developers to start writing modules for SID;
> ** document all of current SID's functionality, including the module
> API and explain the difference (extension) to udev, write and
> complete
> man pages;
> ** provide udev rules responsible for communication with SID and
> possibly importing records which were marked for export to udev in
> SID.
> 
> * Other developers:
> ** first version will make use of a module to handle
> device-mapper-multipath devices (device-mapper-multipath package)
> ** consult in more detail possibility of adding an LVM module even
> for
> this release (if not feasible at this moment, then postpone
> development of this module to next release)
> 
> * Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issue/9568 #9568]
> * Policies and guidelines: no changes needed at this moment
> * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
> 
> == Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
> We are introducing SID in this release and it will be disabled by
> default so an upgrade has no impact here - all existing udev rules
> for
> various storage subsystems will still be installed as previously.
> Subsystems for which a module will be already available in this
> release will contain a switch in their udev rules to either use the
> old udev rules (if SID is not active) or skip the rules appropriately
> (if SID is active and related processing is handled within the SID
> module instead).
> 
> == How To Test ==
> * Basic testing involves (considering we have at least multipath
> and/or LVM module present as well):
> ** installing new 'sid' package
> ** installing device-mapper-multipath and/or lvm module (presumably
> named device-mapper-multipath-sid-module and lvm2-sid-module)
> ** creating a device stack including device-mapper-multipath and/or
> LVM volumes
> ** booting with 'sid.enabled=1' kernel command line
> ** checking device-mapper-multipath and/or LVM volumes are correctly
> activated
> 
> * More thorough testing:
> ** (TBD)
> 
> == User Experience ==
> Regular users shouldn't notice any change. SID is providing a
> system-level infrastructure for convenient handling of
> storage-device-related events through modules provided by other
> developers.
> 
> == Dependencies ==
> * a module to handle device-mapper-multipath is in cooperative
> development with this change, the module will land in
> device-mapper-multipath package (or its subpackage)
> * the same applies for the LVM module (but that may be postponed as
> described earlier)
> 
> == Contingency Plan ==
> If SID is not complete in time, there's no need to execute any
> special
> backup plans. The distribution still contains all the original udev
> rules to handle events for storage devices. If device-mapper-
> multipath
> and/or LVM provides the SID modules, these won't be built and
> distributed.
> 
> SID is not enabled by default so to start using it, one needs to
> enable it explicitly. If enabling SID causes problems, it can be
> disabled. For this purpose, there will be a kernel command line to
> enable/disable SID so we avoid possible issues even at early boot
> sequence if the device handled by SID is on critical path within boot
> sequence.
> 
> == Documentation ==
> * documentation (will be completed): https://sid-project.github.io/*
> upstream repository: https://github.com/sid-project/sid-mvp
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ben Cotton
> He / Him / His
> Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream
> Red Hat
> TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
> ___
> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Re: [Fedora-packaging] RPM-level auto release and changelog bumping - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-30 Thread Igor Raits
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On Tue, 2020-06-30 at 15:19 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/rpm_level_auto_release_and_changelog_bumping
> 
> == Summary ==
> 
> redhat-rpm-config will be updated so users of the auto framework get
> automated release and changelog bumping.
> 
> == Owner ==
> 
> * Name: [[User:nim| Nicolas Mailhot]]
> * Email: 
> 
> == Detailed Description ==
> 
> This is a system-wide change because all packages build with
> redhat-rpm-config, but it only concerns packages that opted to use
> this part of redhat-rpm-config (auto framework).
> 
> The change will make those packages auto-bump and auto-changelog at
> the rpm level, in an infrastructure-independent way.

So how exactly is this supposed to work? From where will it get old
changelog, how packagers will migrate to this, how does it affect
reproducibility?

> == Benefit to Fedora ==
> 
> Autobumping removes a huge packager shore and makes timestamping in
> changelogs more reliable.
> 
> == Scope ==
> * Proposal owners: The feature is coded and works at the rpm level.
> Unfortunately, mock filters away the srpms containing the bump state,
> so it does not work in upper layers.
> 
> * Other developers: The feature requires buy-in by mock developers
> (and probably koji developers) to lift the restrictions that block it
> above the rpm level. Also, it requires a mechanism to pass the user
> name and email that will be used in bumped changelogs (defining two
> variables in ~/.rpmmacros is sufficient at rpm level)

So are you asking mock and koji people to implement something? Did you
talk to them before submitting this proposal?

> * Mock issue:   
> https://github.com/rpm-software-management/mock/issues/599
> 
> * Release engineering: https://pagure.io/releng/issue/9567
> * Policies and guidelines: maybe eventually if things work out on the
> technical level
> * FPC issue: https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/issue/998
> * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
> 
> == Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
> 
> This is a pure build tooling update, it changes how things are built
> not what is built.
> 
> == How To Test ==
> 
> A redhat-rpm-config packages with the changes and some example
> packages are available in
>     
> https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/nim/refactoring-forge-patches-auto-call-bump-changelog-fonts/builds/
> 
> Since the mock/copr layer is currently blocking the feature, you need
> to install the redhat-rpm-config and forge macro packages available
> in
> this repo locally. Afterwards you can take any of the example
> packages
> in the repo and rebuild them with rpmbuild -ba to your heart content,
> and see the releases bump and the changelogs being updated
> accordingly.
> 
> To get beautiful changelogs, you also need to add
> 
> 
> %buildsys_name  Your name
> %buildsys_email Your email
> 
> 
> in ~/.rpmmacros
> 
> == User Experience ==
> 
> N/A Packager experience change only
> 
> == Dependencies ==
> 
> The change is a spin-off of
> 
>   
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Patches_in_Forge_macros_-_Auto_macros_-_Detached_rpm_changelogs
> 
> Therefore, it depends on the success of that other change and will
> probably need rebasing if the code in this other change evolves
> during
> the redhat-rpm-config merge.
> 
> It also depends on mock / copr/ koji buy-in and changes, that may add
> their own requirements.
> 
> == Contingency Plan ==
> 
> There is no contingency plan because the change will happen or not at
> all.

This is not true. If it will happen but then something will be entirely
broken we need to revert it.. And we need to know when, how and who
will do that.

> == Documentation ==
> 
> There is as much documentation as the average redhat-rpm-config
> change
> (ie comments in the macro files themselves)
> 
> == Release Notes ==
> 
> N/A Packager productivity change only
> 
> -- 
> Ben Cotton
> He / Him / His
> Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream
> Red Hat
> TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
> ___
> packaging mailing list -- packag...@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Re: The future of legacy BIOS support in Fedora.

2020-06-30 Thread Igor Raits
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On Tue, 2020-06-30 at 13:34 +, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
> Given Hans proposal [1] introduced systemd/grub2/Gnome upstream
> changes 
> it beg the question if now would not be the time to stop supporting 
> booting in legacy bios mode and move to uefi only supported boot
> which 
> has been available on any common intel based x86 platform since
> atleast 
> 2005.
> 
> Now in 2017 Intel's technical marketing engineer Brian Richardson 
> revealed in a presentation that the company will require UEFI Class 3
> and above as in it would remove legacy BIOS support from its client
> and 
> datacenter platforms by 2020 and one might expect AMD to follow Intel
> in 
> this regard.
> 
> So Intel platforms produced this year presumably will be unable
> to run 
> 32-bit operating systems, unable to use related software (at least 
> natively), and unable to use older hardware, such as RAID HBAs (and 
> therefore older hard drives that are connected to those HBAs),
> network 
> cards, and even graphics cards that lack UEFI-compatible vBIOS
> (launched 
> before 2012 – 2013) etc.
> 
> This post is just to gather feed back why Fedora should still
> continue 
> to support legacy BIOS boot as opposed to stop supporting it and 
> potentially drop grub2 and use sd-boot instead.
> 
> Share your thoughts and comments on how such move might affect you so
> feedback can be collected for the future on why such a change might
> be 
> bad, how it might affect the distribution and scope of such change
> can 
> be determined for potential system wide proposal.

I think there are many people still install OS in the legacy mode, but
I don't really have numbers. One thing we should definitely do if we
deprecate legacy BIOS is to properly warn users that still use this
configuration, develop tooling for them if possible for migration and
do not allow upgrades that will simply break their system.

> 
> Regards
> 
>   Jóhann B.
> 
> 
> 1. 
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/CleanupGnomeHiddenBootMenuIntegration
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Re: Better Thermal Management for the Workstation - Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal

2020-06-30 Thread Igor Raits
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On Tue, 2020-06-30 at 09:25 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ThermalManagementWS
> 
> == Summary ==
> Better thermal management and peak performance on Intel CPUs by
> including
> thermald in the default install.

I have strong feeling that this has been already submitted before.

https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Changes%2FThermalManagementWS=revision=580846=557200

Sadly the diff is so small that I don't think change owners really read
feedback from the mailing list. Neither it incorporated "Feedback"
section in the proposal.

> == Owner ==
> * Name: [[User:benzea| Benjamin Berg]]
> * Email: bb...@redhat.com
> 
> * Name: [[User:ckellner| Christian J. Kellner]]
> * Email: ckell...@redhat.com
> 
> * Product: Workstation
> * Responsible WG: Workstation
> 
> 
> == Detailed Description ==
> 
> Modern Intel-based systems provide sensors and methods to monitor and
> control temperature of its CPUs. The Thermal daemon will use those
> sensors
> to monitor the temperature and use the best available method to keep
> the
> CPU in the right temperature envelop. On certain systems this is
> needed to
> reach the maximal performance. thermald will for example use the PPCC
> power
> table to set power limits (when available, see for example
>  
> https://www.mail-archive.com/kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net/msg411614.html
> ).
> This is for example the case on Ice Lake, where thermald can increase
> the
> performance of the out-of-the-box behaviour of Fedora.
> 
> Not strictly necessary, but *further* improvements can be achieved by
> using
> per-model thermald configurations. The most straight forward way of
> using
> those is for the user to install dptfxtract (available from
> rpmfusion). At
> least parts of what dptfxtract can already do may be integrated into
> thermald in the future thanks to the reverse engineering work done by
> Matthew Garret (see
> https://github.com/intel/thermal_daemon/tree/mg_patches_test,
> https://github.com/intel/thermal_daemon/pull/224). Should the reverse
> engineering effort be merged, or if the user installs dptfxtract,
> then they
> can expect a performance boost on some machines.
> 
> Theoretically one could ship appropriate per-machine configurations
> as a
> separate package (or inside thermald). However, this is not part of
> the
> proposal for a number of reasons:
>  1. It is not clear how the configuration data can be collected
>  2. We do not currently have an implementation to load such
> configuration
> data
>  3. This may become obsolete with if the reverse-engineering effort
> continues and is merged (or picked up by Fedora)
> 
> For a more details explanation please consult Intel's [
>  
> https://01.org/linux-thermal-daemon/documentation/introduction-thermal-daemon
> introduction] to thermald.
> 
> == Benefit to Fedora ==
> Better out-of-the-box experience due to improved cooling methods and
> performance on Intel systems. This affects many modern laptops (e.g.
> the
> Ice Lake platform). On affected machines, Fedora would continue to
> have
> poorer performance compared to other distributions.

I think the change page is missing information what exactly this daemon
does if it is installed.

> == Scope ==
> * Proposal owners:
>  - Include the thermald package in the default Workstation install

I believe this won't do anything because the daemon won't be enabled.

> * Other developers: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> * Release engineering:
> * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
> 
> == Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
> N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> 
> == How To Test ==
> 
> Install the packages and use e.g. turbostat to monitor the
> performance.
> Improvements may only be visible if the non-free dptfxtract package
> is also
> installed.

So if improvements are only visible when non-free software is installed
- - what is the reason to ship it by default?

> == User Experience ==
>  - Better performance on certain hardware
>  - Better cooling of CPUs on certain hardware
> 
> == Dependencies ==
> N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> 
> == Contingency Plan ==
> * Contingency mechanism: Don't ship package by default
> * Contingency deadline: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> * Blocks release? N/A
> 
> 
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Re: Disable dmraid.service on first run if no dmraid sets are found - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-30 Thread Igor Raits
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On Tue, 2020-06-30 at 11:04 +0200, Zdenek Kabelac wrote:
> Dne 30. 06. 20 v 10:57 Vitaly Zaitsev via devel napsal(a):
> > On 29.06.2020 22:04, Ben Cotton wrote:
> > > Fedora only support these RAID sets when they are already
> > > configured in
> > > the BIOS at installation time. So we can solve the problem of
> > > dmraid.service still depending on the obsolete udev-settle
> > > service by
> > > making dmraid.service disable itself if no supported RAID sets
> > > are found
> > > on its first run.
> > 
> > +1 for this change.
> > 
> > Also the LVM monitor can be disabled too if LVM is not used in
> > current
> > Fedora installation.
> > 
> > LVM monitor: -2.01 seconds.
> > RAID: -2.41 seconds.
> 
> If the user does not need lvm2, then the package  should not be
> installed/
> However when lvm2 is installed - lvm2 monitoring service is supposed
> to
> be there and enabled - it should not impact load time all that
> much...

❯ systemd-analyze blame | grep lvm
4.103s lvm2-monitor.service   

Sadly you can't have lvm2 not installed:

lvm2 is needed by (installed) libvirt-daemon-driver-storage-
logical-6.4.0-1.fc33.x86_64

that is required by other libvirt stuff which ends up with gnome-boxes.

> 
> Zdenek
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Igor Raits
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On Mon, 2020-06-29 at 12:26 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 09:59:52AM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> > > We cannot include ZFS in Fedora for legal reasons. Additionally,
> > > ZFS is not
> > > really intended for the laptop use case.
> > Has that actually been explored? How does Canonical get around the
> > legal 
> > issues with OpenZFS' licensing?
> 
> I can't really speculate on Canonical's legal stance and I encourage
> everyone else to also not. 
> 
> I can point to Red Hat's, though: the knowledge base article here
> https://access.redhat.com/solutions/79633 says:
> 
> * ZFS is not included in the upstream Linux kernel due to licensing
> reasons.
> 
> * Red Hat applies the upstream first policy for kernel modules
> (including
>   filesystems). Without upstream presence, kernel modules like ZFS
> cannot be
>   supported by Red Hat.

This is not fully true to my knowledge. Red Hat ships VDO and that is
not even sent to upstream (yet?).

> and "due to licensing reasons" links to
> https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2016/feb/25/zfs-and-linux/ which is
> quite
> interesting and quite long. If you have just time to read one
> section, the
> two paragraphs at the end under "Do Not Rely On This Document As
> Legal
> Advice" seem like the _most_ interesting to me.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Matthew Miller
> 
> Fedora Project Leader
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Igor Raits
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On Mon, 2020-06-29 at 00:37 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:32:56 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote:
> > On 6/29/20 12:27 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> > 
> > > On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:18:28 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On 6/28/20 11:35 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > For the best filesystem ever created, ZFS, I can't say that I
> > > > > agree
> > > > > with
> > > > > your assessment of that value. Having ZFS in Fedora would
> > > > > throw Fedora
> > > > > over the top as being the best Linux distro, hands down. I
> > > > > can count
> > > > > the
> > > > > number of times that having root on ZFS has led to me waiting
> > > > > on kernel
> > > > > updates over the past three years on one hand, and could
> > > > > still do so if
> > > > > I
> > > > > had half as many fingers!
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > How many times are you going to keep mentioning ZFS?  It's
> > > > completely
> > > > off the table, not allowed, never happening.  (I consider the
> > > > chance of
> > > > Oracle doing something reasonable to be immeasurably small.)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > See the relevant section of Mark's email. I also don't see how
> > > it'd
> > > require Oracle to change anything in order to get OpenZFS into
> > > Fedora.
> > 
> > 
> > You were mentioning ZFS, not OpenZFS.  However, it's still the same
> > problem.  OpenZFS is CDDL which won't be accepted.  The only way
> > that 
> > can be changed is if Oracle does something.  And as long as OpenZFS
> > is 
> > an out-of-tree module, it won't be in Fedora.
> 
> ZFS, in terms of Linux support, is generally OpenZFS. You will note
> that Mark 
> also simply said "ZFS". Yes, OpenZFS is under CDDL. That's not really
> a 
> problem. See 
> https://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2016/linux-kernel-cddl.html
> . Ubuntu's solution is wouldn't work for us, and it is a GPL 
> violation
> (https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2016/feb/25/zfs-and-linux/), but 
> it's also not necessary. The package for OpenZFS could be provided as
> a kmod 
> package instead, which would *not* be a GPL violation.
> 
> I don't understand the attitude against this particular out-of-tree
> module, as 
> it's readily available for every kernel within days of release. The
> longest 
> lulls have been around holidays, where it took up to 5 days to get
> support for 
> the latest stable kernel.

First of all, Fedora is packaging not only latest stable kernel. Fedora
is building kernel from git in rawhide almost daily. Secondly, kmods in
Fedora are not allowed.

> -- 
> John M. Harris, Jr.
> 
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-28 Thread Igor Raits
d it also
> will shorten SSD lifespan.
> 
> If laptop is put into sleep mode without users noticing that btrfs is
> running maintenance ops on background (and it often is), the
> likelihood that file system will get corrupt goes up the roof.
> Something users can do is use TLP and as a first aid set
> SATA_LINKPWR_ON_BAT=max_performance for TLP which then will shorten
> the amount of time laptop can be used without recharging. And this
> has been a standing issue at least since 2015 with no real fix on
> sight other than "lol, stop using btrfs" like one commentator at
> Reddit wrote.

Do you have some link to the bugreport about this?

> The btrfs-check is also a massive can of worms and it cannot be
> safely run. At least not without reading pages upon pages of manual
> and becoming an expert in understanding how btrfs works. Expecting
> every Fedora end-user to do this is unrealistic in many different
> ways.

Well, I hope people don't run random commands from the internet? Myself
I did not even need to run anything like that.

> The btrfs has no native encryption to my knowledge. However
> alternatives such as zfs already has a trusted and reliable
> encryption used in numerous FreeNAS installations around the world.

Upstream is working on that.

> And much of these issues and many more are straight up mentioned in
> btrfs' own wiki pages at kernel.org where one of the most shocking
> admissions is: "So, in general, it is impossible to give an accurate
> estimate of the amount of free space on any btrfs filesystem. Yes,
> this sucks."
> 
> Source:
>  
> https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/FAQ#Why_is_free_space_so_complicated.3F
> 
> And these are the brains before btrfs admitting this that there is no
> solution for this. No amount of userspace tools developmen and UX/DE
> integration is going to solve this for the end-users.
> 
> Please, don't switch to btrfs. It is not mature. It is not well-
> understood. It is not properly "battle-tested". It can still die on
> its own. It's just a ridiculous meme file system. At this point it
> would take me some decade of smooth sailing at OpenSUSE side to start
> believing that btrfs is ready for prime time in my own personal
> Fedora systems. Even 5 years of smooth sailing would give more faith
> in it. But as it stands I have to strongly oppose btrfs. It's too
> much of a headache with no relief in-sight.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Antti (Hopeakoski)
> 
> P.S. Sorry for this emotional nature of this message. But I really,
> really like my Fedora and I really, really dislike btrfs due past
> highly negative experiences with it (some of them happening to me as
> recently as last year).
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-27 Thread Igor Raits
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On Sat, 2020-06-27 at 12:37 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> I was an early adopter and used BTRFS for many years, singing its
> praises.
> I was particularly interested in the RAID capabilities.  Then in 2016
> the
> bomb was dropped that:
> 
> "It turns out the RAID5 and RAID6 code for the Btrfs file-system's
> built-in
> RAID support is faulty and users should not be making use of it if
> you care
> about your data.

Well, the RAID5 and RAID6 in Btrfs is still not really working fine and
there are some threads in linux-btrfs@ at kernel ML. Workstation users
are not using RAID (even if they do, I am not even sure how it is
configured today with Anaconda). Even for those that do, RAID0/1/10
seems to be working just fine with Btrfs. RAID5/6 is definitely not
something that people run on their laptops.

> There has been this mailing list thread
> < 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/linux-btrfs@vger.kernel.org/msg55161.html
> >
> since the end of July about Btrfs scrub recalculating the wrong
> parity in
> RAID5. The wrong parity and unrecoverable errors has been confirmed
> by
> multiple parties. The Btrfs RAID 5/6 code has been called as much as
> fatally
> flawed
> < 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/linux-btrfs@vger.kernel.org/msg55179.html
> > --
> "more or less fatally flawed, and a full scrap and rewrite to an
> entirely
> different raid56 mode on-disk format may be necessary to fix it. And
> what's
> even clearer is that people /really/ shouldn't be using raid56 mode
> for
> anything but testing with throw-away data, at this point. Anything
> else is
> simply irresponsible."
> 
> The current situation as I understand it is the problem is "mostly
> fixed" -
> whatever that means.
> 
> So, BTRFS is great, ready for prime time... many people are using it,
> etc.
> etc. etc. until something goes wrong and then you get... well, it's
> experimental and not intended for production.  Sucks to be you.
> 
> At some point you have to fish or cut bait.  I was under the
> impression
> that Redhat had done exactly that with the announcement and direction
> of
> Stratis.
> 
> Why are we not concentrating on Stratis and XFS?  Seems to me after
> waiting
> for almost a decade for the promise of BTRFS to be fulfilled and then
> having so many
> people be burned, we should be turning the page rather than
> continuing to
> rehash the same old arguments.

Well, because those have different use-cases? One of the problems with
XFS is that you can't shrink it. With systemd-homed on the horizon, it
will become a problem. It also does not like much when power goes down
(even with battery on laptops it is not uncommon), two my colleagues
got XFS destroyed (for one of them, twice) when they had to turn off
their laptops using power button in last ~2years. Then they have
switched to ext4 and nothing like that has happened again. But that one
does not have features that are very useful on laptops.

Stratis uses XFS under the hood, so it has same problem, but also it
still can't be used as a root filesystem. And generally it is designed
for different use-case than a workstation.

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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-27 Thread Igor Raits
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On Sat, 2020-06-27 at 09:58 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> On Thursday, June 25, 2020 2:38:13 PM MST Jan Kratochvil wrote:
> > On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:21:37 +0200, Chris Adams wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm not sure why you think end-users can't use a free OS.
> > 
> > 
> > First steps of end-users is to install Chrome, Spotify and
> > VirtualBox.
> > So there is left no advantage of a Free OS.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > I've run with SELinux enabled for years, rarely if ever causes
> > > problems
> > > for typical stuff.
> > 
> > 
> > Sooner or later something does not work. I do not want to open this
> > can of
> > worms whether SELinux yes or not, it may be a good idea but IMNSHO
> > it is
> > not for a development machine.
> 
> I definitely agree on taking out "rhgb quiet", that's annoying as all
> hell, 
> not knowing what's going on during the boot process.

Why does the user need to know what's happening when system boots?

> -- 
> John M. Harris, Jr.
> 
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-27 Thread Igor Raits
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On Sat, 2020-06-27 at 10:35 +0200, Roberto Ragusa wrote:
> On 2020-06-26 22:13, Justin Forbes wrote:
> 
> > Saying production on millions of systems is a bit misleading here,
> > when you are talking about millions of systems at a single company.
> 
> ...in a redundant configuration where losing a disk is tolerated by
> design
> and managing data that have very low vale (mostly pictures of cats
> and random chats).
> 
> Filesystem quality must be measured in other conditions: have a
> Postgres
> on it, financial transactions, random blackouts, etc.

Do you run postgres, financial transactions and random blackouts on
your laptop / workstation? If so, isn't it just for testing purposes?

I'm not saying that it is not important to have filesystem stable and
such, but just saying that typical workstation workloads is not
utilizing disks that much (if at all?).

> -- 
> Roberto Ragusamail at robertoragusa.it
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-26 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 21:22 +0200, Markus Larsson wrote:
> 
> On 26 June 2020 21:04:00 CEST, Michael Catanzaro <
> mcatanz...@gnome.org> wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 8:45 pm, Markus Larsson
> >  
> > wrote:
> > > I strongly agree. BTRFS has been 5 years from production ready
> > > for 
> > > almost a decade now, please don't force this on users that
> > > doesn't 
> > > know any better.
> > 
> > This is hard to square with the fact that it's already being used
> > in 
> > production on millions of systems. It's also hard to square with
> > the 
> > data presented by Josef -- the only hard evidence I've seen on the 
> > topic of filesystem reliability -- which shows btrfs is an order of
> > magnitude more reliable than xfs (although we don't know how it 
> > compares to ext4). Surely if xfs is good enough for RHEL, and btrfs
> > is 
> > at least 10x more reliable than xfs, that suggests btrfs should 
> > probably be good enough for Fedora?
> > 
> > Do you have any real evidence for your claim that would be more 
> > convincing than what Josef has presented?
> 
> Josef's server parks is a bit of a different use case than laptops as
> other people has already pointed out.
> If you want data on how it works in a desktop/laptop scenario talk to
> openSUSE users about how many times the "btrfs randomly ate my
> volume"-bug was "fixed".
> 
> When I ran an environment of about 4500 SLES and about 5000 RHEL
> servers btrfs failed about 3 times as often as xfs (this from our own
> in-house statistics). That was 3 years ago but filesystems takes long
> to mature and I have been keeping ear near openSUSE to see where it
> goes.
> Is this as big as Josef's environment? No but it is first hand data
> to me (to you it is of course just anecdotal evidence)

Keep in mind that SLES does backport btrfs patches because they support
it. RHEL does not. And we are talking about Fedora here anyway.

> BTRFS has the potential to become great, I just think it isn't there
> yet and it'll take 5 years of smooth sailing to convince me.

Probably you should try it with Fedora's kernel?

> > 
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-26 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 17:30 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Fr, 26.06.20 10:42, Ben Cotton (bcot...@redhat.com) wrote:
> 
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/BtrfsByDefault
> 
> If this is decided to be the way to go, please work with kernel
> maintainers to make btrfs.ko a built-in kernel module, so that
> initrd-less boots work... (it's kinda pointless anyway to have
> something as module that is now gonna used by most people anyway, it
> just slows things down for little benefit)

Good point, we'll make sure to not forget about it.

> Lennart
> 
> --
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Re: Avoiding the automatic /usr/bin/python3 dep

2020-06-25 Thread Igor Raits
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On Thu, 2020-06-25 at 14:50 +0100, Richard Hughes wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> In fwupd we ship 4 *tiny* python scripts that are useful for ODMs and
> other people working with low level firmware blobs. In
> https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/fwupd/pull-request/2 it was
> suggested we split them off as a subpackage to avoid the
> /usr/bin/python3 dep which is unwanted on CoreOS. It does seem a bit
> crazy to split off a subpackage when the rpm header will be bigger
> than the contents. Given these are such small files and certainly not
> warranting dragging python3 onto the image, I did hope I could use
> %{?python_disable_dependency_generator} to tell rpmbuild to basically
> ignore the .py files and not add a /usr/bin/python3 dep on my package
> automatically. Unfortunately that seems not to work. Ideas welcome,
> thanks!

I think removing that dependency is simply wrong. It essentially means
that one would not be able to use those scripts without dependency
being installed.

You should split that package and can use Recommends to pull it in by
default if desired, but definitely not removing a Requires.

> Richard.
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Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo Meeting (2020-06-24)

2020-06-24 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512


=
#fedora-meeting-2: FESCO (2020-06-24)
=


Meeting started by ignatenkobrain at 14:04:37 UTC. The full logs are
available at
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2020-06-24/fesco.2020-06-24-14.04.log.html
.



Meeting summary
- ---
* init process  (ignatenkobrain, 14:04:50)

* #2409 F33 System-Wide Change: CompilerPolicy Change  (ignatenkobrain,
  14:07:07)
  * LINK:
   
https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Changes/CompilerPolicy=history
indicates the proposal was not updated  (mhroncok, 14:08:44)
  * ACTION: law to propose PR for the Packaging Guidelines and we will
vote again once that ready.  (ignatenkobrain, 14:12:46)

* #2390 Request to permit module default streams in ELN
  (ignatenkobrain, 14:12:56)
  * ACTION: everyone is welcome to comment on modularity PR#83, once
the
discussion will be over there - sgallagh will update requiest and
notify FESCo  (ignatenkobrain, 14:18:02)
  * ACTION: sgallagh to submit Self-Contained Change Proposal once
ready
(ignatenkobrain, 14:20:36)

* #2407 Find a new meeting time slot  (ignatenkobrain, 14:20:45)
  * LINK: https://whenisgood.net/f2hzskx/results/gbhh7ba   (zbyszek,
14:23:18)
  * LINK: https://framadate.org/ supports maybe  (cverna, 14:39:25)
  * ACTION: bcotton to ask Council about moving their meeting to
another
time.  (ignatenkobrain, 14:41:25)

* Next week's chair  (ignatenkobrain, 14:41:28)
  * ACTION: cverna will chair next meeting  (ignatenkobrain, 14:42:12)

* Open Floor  (ignatenkobrain, 14:42:20)
  * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FESCo_meeting_process
(ignatenkobrain, 14:43:07)

Meeting ended at 14:52:17 UTC.




Action Items
- 
* law to propose PR for the Packaging Guidelines and we will vote again
  once that ready.
* everyone is welcome to comment on modularity PR#83, once the
  discussion will be over there - sgallagh will update requiest and
  notify FESCo
* sgallagh to submit Self-Contained Change Proposal once ready
* bcotton to ask Council about moving their meeting to another time.
* cverna will chair next meeting




Action Items, by person
- ---
* bcotton
  * bcotton to ask Council about moving their meeting to another time.
* cverna
  * cverna will chair next meeting
* sgallagh
  * everyone is welcome to comment on modularity PR#83, once the
discussion will be over there - sgallagh will update requiest and
notify FESCo
  * sgallagh to submit Self-Contained Change Proposal once ready
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * law to propose PR for the Packaging Guidelines and we will vote
again once that ready.




People Present (lines said)
- ---
* Son_Goku (60)
* ignatenkobrain (51)
* mhroncok (34)
* sgallagh (30)
* zodbot (24)
* nirik (22)
* dcantrell (15)
* cverna (13)
* zbyszek (13)
* bcotton (9)
* decathorpe (4)
* Conan_Kudo (2)
* law_ (2)
* Eleventh_Doctor (1)
* Eighth_Doctor (0)
* Sir_Gallantmon (0)
* King_InuYasha (0)
* Pharaoh_Atem (0)




Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4

.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
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Igor Raits 
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Schedule for Wednesday's FESCo Meeting (2020-06-24)

2020-06-23 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Following is the list of topics that will be discussed in the
FESCo meeting Wednesday at 14:00UTC in #fedora-meeting-2 on
irc.freenode.net.

To convert UTC to your local time, take a look at
  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UTCHowto

or run:
  date -d '2020-06-24 14:00 UTC'


Links to all issues to be discussed can be found at: 
https://pagure.io/fesco/report/meeting_agenda

= Discussed and Voted in the Ticket =

F33 System-Wide Change: Aarch64 Pointer Authentication & Branch Target
Enablement
https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2403
APPROVED (+6, 0, -0)

New FESCo rep to Fedora Council needed
https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2405
dcantrell willl be a new representative (+9, 0, -0)

F33 System-Wide Change: swap on zram
https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2408
APPROVED (+7, 0, -0)

= Followups =

#topic #2390 Request to permit module default streams in ELN
https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2390

#topic #2407 Find a new meeting time slot
https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2407

= New business =


#topic #2409 F33 System-Wide Change: CompilerPolicy Change
https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2409

= Open Floor = 

For more complete details, please visit each individual
issue.  The report of the agenda items can be found at
https://pagure.io/fesco/report/meeting_agenda

If you would like to add something to this agenda, you can
reply to this e-mail, file a new issue at
https://pagure.io/fesco, e-mail me directly, or bring it
up at the end of the meeting, during the open floor topic. Note
that added topics may be deferred until the following meeting. 
- -- 
Igor Raits 
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Re: RHEL 9 and modularity

2020-06-22 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On Mon, 2020-06-22 at 09:19 +0200, Petr Pisar wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 02:53:56PM -0400, David Cantrell wrote:
> > Around the idea and concept of modularity... what are the benefits
> > to Fedora,
> > Fedora developers, and Fedora contributors?  Through the various
> > discussions
> > on modularity, nothing solid in this regard has been presented.  If
> > I am
> > Fedora contributor now, what can modularity do for me?
> > 
> It can define a build order among packages of a module.

For that you don't actually have to design some special format. The
buildsystem should figure this out on its own. And there are such
buildsystems that do that - Open Build Service.

> It can change RPM macros in a build root (including SRPM build root).

I think this is not really good idea, but again - you don't have to
invent new format for this. Open Build Service allows you to do that in
a project configuration.

> It can use transient build dependencies (a package is built, only
> used as a build
> dependency of a consquitive package, and then dropped and never
> shipped).

Same here.

> It can build and deliver a package against multiple exclusive
> dependencies
> (e.g. for different Fedora releases).

The same thing.

> It can build a package from dist-git sources that do not depend on a
> Fedora
> release.

Again, same.

> (Teoretically you can build a module from non-RPM components; I've
> never tried
> it.)
> 
> -- Petr
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Re: RHEL 9 and modularity

2020-06-18 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On Thu, 2020-06-18 at 09:24 -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 9:05 AM Igor Raits
>  wrote:
> > 
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA512
> > 
> > On Thu, 2020-06-18 at 08:44 -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
> > > Hello Fedora Community!
> > 
> > Hi Josh,
> > 
> > > I am a long-time Fedora Community member, and may be familiar to
> > > many
> > > through previous FESCo or devel list discussions and passionate
> > > debates.  However I write to you today with a different community
> > > hat
> > > on, as a lead Architect for Red Hat Enterprise Linux.  The RHEL
> > > organization has been following the modularity discussions within
> > > Fedora, particularly around ELN, and often the question of what
> > > plans
> > > we have for modularity in RHEL 9 has come up.  Our Fedora Project
> > > Lead
> > > and a number of FESCo members have reached out and asked if we
> > > can
> > > provide some perspective here, and I am both happy and excited to
> > > have
> > > that opportunity.
> > > 
> > > As the Fedora Council has pointed out [1], we certainly
> > > acknowledge
> > > there are improvements to be made and have a team already working
> > > on
> > > them.  They recently outlined their plans in conjunction with our
> > > Product Management team in a Fedora Council call as well [2]. 
> > > We’re
> > > continuing to invest time and effort in this packaging solution
> > > and
> > > are confident that the team can deliver against their plan.  It
> > > is
> > > somewhat of a new experience for all of us when Red Hat is direct
> > > with
> > > our product intentions, but we discussed the larger gaps we see
> > > with
> > > usage in RHEL and are putting our efforts towards solving those
> > > gaps
> > > with this plan.
> > > 
> > > Modularity is important to RHEL and those efforts are already
> > > underway.  We will be leveraging modularity in RHEL 9 where it
> > > most
> > > makes sense.  This is primarily centered around our Application
> > > Streams concept, which has been well received by our customer
> > > base.
> > > Providing a consistent but improved experience is the base
> > > requirement, which allows us to have continuity from RHEL 8 to
> > > RHEL 9
> > > and lowers the hurdle for our customers when upgrading from one
> > > major
> > > version to another.
> > 
> > It is nice to hear that it is helping to solve problems in RHEL
> > (even
> > though I've heard many people saying that it is nightmare now). Is
> > there a list of requirements that you have so that we could
> > potentially
> > develop something that would be useful to Fedora same as for RHEL
> > 10+?
> 
> The dnf team is working to gather those internally.  RHEL 10+ is
> still
> ~5 years away, and while we're working hard to develop our product
> roadmap, that's still far enough off that we haven't put much down in
> terms of requirements :)
> 
> > > It is always good to push the boundaries and search for better
> > > ideas
> > > and improvements, and that is part of what makes Fedora great. 
> > > We
> > > are
> > > doing this in the context of the RHEL 9 release as well, so our
> > > near
> > > term timeline and requirements mean we are working on evolving
> > > modularity, not a revolution or a replacement.  We are excited by
> > > ELN,
> > > as it presents a possible space to allow those that want to
> > > continue
> > > to iterate on modules a place to do so without necessarily
> > > impacting
> > > the broader Fedora distribution in its entirety.  It is my
> > > personal
> > > hope that we can use that opportunity to improve modules and
> > > modularity in the open source, Fedora-first way we’d prefer.  Our
> > > near
> > > term effort to improve the existing modularity implementation
> > > ahead
> > > of
> > > RHEL 9 needs to occur, and we’d like to do that work in Fedora,
> > > rather
> > > than in closed product development.  Longer term, we are open to
> > > contributing to a better replacement that meets many of the same
> > > goals.  This is what makes our distribution ecosystem work well,
> > > and
> > > not having that upstream lessens the value

Re: RHEL 9 and modularity

2020-06-18 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On Thu, 2020-06-18 at 08:44 -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
> Hello Fedora Community!

Hi Josh,

> I am a long-time Fedora Community member, and may be familiar to many
> through previous FESCo or devel list discussions and passionate
> debates.  However I write to you today with a different community hat
> on, as a lead Architect for Red Hat Enterprise Linux.  The RHEL
> organization has been following the modularity discussions within
> Fedora, particularly around ELN, and often the question of what plans
> we have for modularity in RHEL 9 has come up.  Our Fedora Project
> Lead
> and a number of FESCo members have reached out and asked if we can
> provide some perspective here, and I am both happy and excited to
> have
> that opportunity.
> 
> As the Fedora Council has pointed out [1], we certainly acknowledge
> there are improvements to be made and have a team already working on
> them.  They recently outlined their plans in conjunction with our
> Product Management team in a Fedora Council call as well [2].  We’re
> continuing to invest time and effort in this packaging solution and
> are confident that the team can deliver against their plan.  It is
> somewhat of a new experience for all of us when Red Hat is direct
> with
> our product intentions, but we discussed the larger gaps we see with
> usage in RHEL and are putting our efforts towards solving those gaps
> with this plan.
> 
> Modularity is important to RHEL and those efforts are already
> underway.  We will be leveraging modularity in RHEL 9 where it most
> makes sense.  This is primarily centered around our Application
> Streams concept, which has been well received by our customer base.
> Providing a consistent but improved experience is the base
> requirement, which allows us to have continuity from RHEL 8 to RHEL 9
> and lowers the hurdle for our customers when upgrading from one major
> version to another.

It is nice to hear that it is helping to solve problems in RHEL (even
though I've heard many people saying that it is nightmare now). Is
there a list of requirements that you have so that we could potentially
develop something that would be useful to Fedora same as for RHEL 10+?

> It is always good to push the boundaries and search for better ideas
> and improvements, and that is part of what makes Fedora great.  We
> are
> doing this in the context of the RHEL 9 release as well, so our near
> term timeline and requirements mean we are working on evolving
> modularity, not a revolution or a replacement.  We are excited by
> ELN,
> as it presents a possible space to allow those that want to continue
> to iterate on modules a place to do so without necessarily impacting
> the broader Fedora distribution in its entirety.  It is my personal
> hope that we can use that opportunity to improve modules and
> modularity in the open source, Fedora-first way we’d prefer.  Our
> near
> term effort to improve the existing modularity implementation ahead
> of
> RHEL 9 needs to occur, and we’d like to do that work in Fedora,
> rather
> than in closed product development.  Longer term, we are open to
> contributing to a better replacement that meets many of the same
> goals.  This is what makes our distribution ecosystem work well, and
> not having that upstream lessens the value we all get from such
> experimentation in the open.

While I support you that we should do it in Fedora, does this
essentially mean that this technology is useful only for RHEL and you
do not plan to develop it *for Fedora*, but rather *for RHEL in
Fedora*?

> Hopefully that provides some context and helps FESCo and the wider
> community understand where Red Hat is headed with modularity on the
> Enterprise side.

Sadly no. It helps to understand your plans, however it does not help
to understand the reasons behind, whether you can't change UX in the
RHEL 9, or you think that technology is good enough for your use-cases
or any other reasons.

Basically this email just says "We decided for Modularity in RHEL 9 and
we would like to do it in Fedora Infrastructure first".

> josh
> 
> [1]   
> https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-council-and-the-future-of-modularity/
> [2] https://bluejeans.com/s/W_P0D
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-BEGIN P

Re: Regression in build_make macro?

2020-06-17 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On Wed, 2020-06-17 at 20:38 +0200, Andy Mender wrote:
> Howdy everyone!
> 
> Some time ago we discussed the misuse of the make %{?_smp_mflags}
> construct
> and that one should switch to %build_make. I tried that and all of my
> COPR
> builds failed completely. Here's a log from one of them:
> https://download.copr.fedorainfracloud.org/results/andymenderunix/7kaa/fedora-32-x86_64/01475167-7kaa/builder-live.log.gz
> 
> Is there anything I'm missing?

Yes, the macro is named %make_build :)

> Cheers,
> Andy
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CMake to do out-of-source builds

2020-06-16 Thread Igor Raits
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On Tue, 2020-06-16 at 23:45 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Neal Gompa wrote:
> > You can also do "%cmake -B %{_vpath_builddir}" and that will work
> > on
> > old and new distro releases alike.
> 
> Not on really old distros, because it requires CMake 3.13 (2018-11-
> 20):
> https://cgold.readthedocs.io/en/latest/glossary/-B.html

It has been there since F29, and now oldest supported is F31.

> (The undocumented variant "%cmake -H. -B%{_vpath_builddir}" should
> work with 
> some older versions of CMake, not sure how far back, but it is not 
> documented and may break in newer CMake versions.)
> 
> Kevin Kofler
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CMake to do out-of-source builds

2020-06-16 Thread Igor Raits
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On Tue, 2020-06-16 at 23:52 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Dan Čermák wrote:
> > Or you use the new %cmake macro only in the f32, epel8 and master
> > branch and leave the other branches as they are?
> 
> That requires maintaining the branches separately and not fast-
> forwarding 
> them, but fast-forwarding is the most convenient way to maintain
> several 
> leaf packages.
> 
> We have had the discussion of whether to maintain separate specfiles
> on 
> separate branches or use conditionals many times. Both are allowed,
> and 
> different maintainers have different preferences. So trying to force 
> maintainers to do things one way rather than the other is not going
> to fly.
> 
> So I think pointing out that a specfile "simplification" can actually
> be a 
> complication in the presence of conditionals is a valid point, and
> "don't do 
> that then" is not a satisfactory answer.

As it's written in change proposal, we are going to backport
%cmake_build and %cmake_install into older Fedora so you can have same
spec file across all Fedora releases.

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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CMake to do out-of-source builds

2020-06-16 Thread Igor Raits
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On Tue, 2020-06-16 at 15:18 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Igor Raits wrote:
> > The correct way of doing out-of-source builds is to use `cmake -S .
> > -B
> > builddir` and not cd/pushd and other things. Sadly we can't
> > implement
> > this enforcement without breaking packages that do `cd/pushd` but
> > we
> > will fix them.
> 
> The pushd approach has been working since forever, which is why it is
> used 
> in all templates. -S and -B are more recent (and redundant)
> introductions.

Right, they have existed before -S/-B were introduced, but it does not
mean we should use old method forever just because we've used it
before. Also they are not redundant.

  cmake [options] 
  cmake [options] 
  cmake [options] -S  -B 

The former options are trying to guess whether you specify source dir
or build dir while with these options you get a consistent way of
telling them to cmake.

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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CMake to do out-of-source builds

2020-06-16 Thread Igor Raits
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On Wed, 2020-06-17 at 01:38 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> James Cassell wrote:
> > If you're doing this, might I suggest reversing the condition so
> > the new
> > way is in the "else" part, hence "default"?
> 
> The problem is that this results in a counterintuitive &&, as in:
> %if 0%{?fedora} <= 32 && 0%{?rhel} <= 8
> (by de Morgan's law, or if you want to analyze it directly, because 
> 0%{?rhel} <= 8 will always be true on Fedora).

%if (0%{?rhel} && 0%{?rhel}) <= 8 || (0%{?fedora} && 0%{?fedora} <= 32)

> > I've run into issues rebuilding packages because there was such a
> > condition from a decade ago and I didn't have %fedora defined
> > because I
> > was trying to build it for another distro. (Common issue amongst
> > the ruby
> > packages.)
> 
> Then you will always get the conditional for the oldest Fedora (no
> matter 
> what is the %if and what the %else part) because 0%{?fedora} will be
> 0, by 
> design.
> 
> The specfiles in Fedora dist-git are either only for Fedora or for
> Fedora 
> and RHEL/CentOS. They are not expected to work on any other distro.

While this is true, I know that some spec files are taken as-is to
openSUSE and Mageia. So it would be nice to have same and simple spec
files that work across multiple distributions.

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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CMake to do out-of-source builds

2020-06-16 Thread Igor Raits
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On Tue, 2020-06-16 at 18:54 +0200, Dan Čermák wrote:
> Kevin Kofler  writes:
> 
> > Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> > > Kevin, the goal is to *simply* these packages:
> > > 
> > > mkdir -p %{_target_platform}
> > > pushd %{_target_platform}
> > > %cmake 
> > > popd
> > > 
> > > It's four lines. We get to simplify it down to one line. Proposal
> > > owners are provenpackagers and say they will try to fix affected
> > > packages. Fine by me?
> > 
> > In the real world, it will end up as:
> > 
> > %if 0%{?fedora} > 32 || 0%{?rhel} > 8
> > %cmake
> > %else
> > mkdir %{_target_platform}
> > pushd %{_target_platform}
> > %cmake ..
> > popd
> > %endif
> 
> Or you use the new %cmake macro only in the f32, epel8 and master
> branch and leave the other branches as they are?

Also note that %cmake_build and %cmake_install will be backported to
f32 and f31 so you won't have to care much whether it is in-source or
out-of-source. You can use those with `-B %{_vpath_builddir}` to ensure
that it will do out-of-source even on older Fedora versions, otherwise
it will behave slightly differently but this should not be a big
problem.

> > 
> > i.e. 8 lines instead of 4, and much less readable. Most specfiles
> > need to 
> > work on older distributions too.
> > 
> > Kevin Kofler
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Re: undefined symbol: pthread_getattr_np, version GLIBC_2.32

2020-06-16 Thread Igor Raits
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On Tue, 2020-06-16 at 18:39 +0800, 西木野羰基 wrote:
> Could please check what version of glibc has been installed during
> mock build? I can;t find the logs or the build artifacts.
> But by checking other build yesterday I can found that glibc in koji
> build is newer than the one on my computer (fedora rawhide x86_64)
> I think the problem is because koji is using
> glibc-common-2.31.9000-14.fc33 for f33 and we can only get a
> 2.31.9000-13.fc33 now.
> Maybe wait for mirrors to update (and install new glibc) and retry?

That's true, but I am surprised that this is not handled by symbol
versioning. This function seems to exist for long long time, so why did
it break just now?

> 
> Igor Raits  于2020年6月16日周二 下午6:11写道:
> > 
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA512
> > 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I built gitui in koji (f33) yesterday and tried to run it on my
> > laptop
> > with Fedora Rawhide today and it does not work:
> > 
> > gitui: symbol lookup error: gitui: undefined symbol:
> > pthread_getattr_np, version GLIBC_2.32
> > 
> > Did anybody see something similar in other applications? Any ideas
> > what's broken?
> > - --
> > Igor Raits 
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> > 
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CMake to do out-of-source builds

2020-06-16 Thread Igor Raits
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On Tue, 2020-06-16 at 03:47 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Neal Gompa wrote:
> > If they build a separate folder manually and are already using the
> > VPATH macros, then there's no change. If they're using a different
> > structure, we can adapt them to the standard VPATH macros, and do
> > other adjustments as needed.
> 
> The common idiom in KDE packages is:
> mkdir %{_target_platform}
> pushd %{_target_platform}
> %{cmake_kf5} ..
> popd
> 
> So:
> 1. Are you going to apply this change also to %{cmake_kf5} or just
> plain
>    %cmake?

I've just updated the change page that clarifies this question. I'm
also surprised that %cmake_kf5 does not use %cmake, but we are not
going to change this as part of this proposal and leave it for anybody
else who might want to work on that.

> 2. If a construct like this is used, I guess we will end up with a
> VPATH
>    inside %{_target_platform}? So the -debugsource package will have
> a
>    nested structure like Russian matrioshka puppets or Chinese boxes?
> 
> > Defaults matter. And upstreams complain about us not doing out of
> > tree
> > builds by default. Some projects even intentionally break in-source
> > builds and packagers shouldn't struggle to figure out how to do the
> > right thing in that circumstance.
> 
> It is unfortunate that some upstreams (including parts of KDE) are
> doing 
> this. This is a very pointless and unhelpful thing to do. I see no
> benefit 
> from disallowing in-source builds, it is just a simple special case
> and 
> normally requires no extra code to support.
> 
> Kevin Kofler
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CMake to do out-of-source builds

2020-06-16 Thread Igor Raits
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Hash: SHA512

On Tue, 2020-06-16 at 08:37 -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 6:30 AM Iñaki Ucar 
> wrote:
> > 
> > On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 at 03:09, Neal Gompa 
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 8:22 PM Kevin Kofler <
> > > kevin.kof...@chello.at> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > How does this affect the many packages that already build in a
> > > > separate
> > > > build folder manually? There are even several specfile
> > > > templates that
> > > > contain the boilerplate for that.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > If they build a separate folder manually and are already using
> > > the
> > > VPATH macros, then there's no change. If they're using a
> > > different
> > > structure, we can adapt them to the standard VPATH macros, and do
> > > other adjustments as needed.
> > 
> > What if you need several builds with several flags? E.g., something
> > like
> > 
> > %build
> > %cmake -B flag1 -DFLAG=1
> > %make_build -C flag1
> > %cmake -B flag2 -DFLAG=2
> > %make_build -C flag2
> > 
> > %install
> > %make_install -C flag1
> > %make_install -C flag2
> > 
> 
> That still works, CMake processes the _last_ -B set, just like Meson.
> So if you redefine it later, then everything still works.

Yeah, also you should consider switching from %make_build /
%make_install to the %cmake_build / %cmake_install that have -B option,
so it is consistent across all your cmake code in the spec.

> 
> 
> -- 
> 真実はいつも一つ!/ Always, there's only one truth!
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CMake to do out-of-source builds

2020-06-16 Thread Igor Raits
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Hash: SHA512

On Tue, 2020-06-16 at 12:16 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Igor Raits wrote:
> > Example above will stop working,
> 
> So your change breaks hundreds of packages, exactly those that
> already do 
> what you think is the right thing.

The correct way of doing out-of-source builds is to use `cmake -S . -B
builddir` and not cd/pushd and other things. Sadly we can't implement
this enforcement without breaking packages that do `cd/pushd` but we
will fix them.

> Hence, sorry, but I am opposed to this change.
> 
> > but we definitely do not want to have build tree in
> > x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu/x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu/.
> 
> That was my point, yes (and what will happen if it does not error).

As I said it will error out. And we will fix it.

> Kevin Kofler
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undefined symbol: pthread_getattr_np, version GLIBC_2.32

2020-06-16 Thread Igor Raits
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Hash: SHA512

Hello,

I built gitui in koji (f33) yesterday and tried to run it on my laptop
with Fedora Rawhide today and it does not work:

gitui: symbol lookup error: gitui: undefined symbol:
pthread_getattr_np, version GLIBC_2.32

Did anybody see something similar in other applications? Any ideas
what's broken?
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CMake to do out-of-source builds

2020-06-15 Thread Igor Raits
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Hash: SHA512

On Tue, 2020-06-16 at 03:47 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Neal Gompa wrote:
> > If they build a separate folder manually and are already using the
> > VPATH macros, then there's no change. If they're using a different
> > structure, we can adapt them to the standard VPATH macros, and do
> > other adjustments as needed.
> 
> The common idiom in KDE packages is:
> mkdir %{_target_platform}
> pushd %{_target_platform}
> %{cmake_kf5} ..
> popd
> 
> So:
> 1. Are you going to apply this change also to %{cmake_kf5} or just
> plain
>    %cmake?

I forgot that it does not use %cmake, so I think we should change it
too. In that case, we should also update change page.

> 2. If a construct like this is used, I guess we will end up with a
> VPATH
>    inside %{_target_platform}? So the -debugsource package will have
> a
>    nested structure like Russian matrioshka puppets or Chinese boxes?

Example above will stop working, but we definitely do not want to have
build tree in x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu/x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu/.

> > Defaults matter. And upstreams complain about us not doing out of
> > tree
> > builds by default. Some projects even intentionally break in-source
> > builds and packagers shouldn't struggle to figure out how to do the
> > right thing in that circumstance.
> 
> It is unfortunate that some upstreams (including parts of KDE) are
> doing 
> this. This is a very pointless and unhelpful thing to do. I see no
> benefit 
> from disallowing in-source builds, it is just a simple special case
> and 
> normally requires no extra code to support.

With this change, everyone will be more happier. Essentially we will
always do out-of-source build that is recommended by upstreams and you
won't have to think whether you need to build in-source or out-of-
source because it will just work.

> Kevin Kofler
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CMake to do out-of-source builds

2020-06-15 Thread Igor Raits
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On Tue, 2020-06-16 at 02:21 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Ben Cotton wrote:
> > == Summary ==
> > %cmake macro will be adjusted (-B
> > parameter)
> > to use separate build folder (already standardized
> > %{_vpath_builddir} macro). Additionally,
> > %cmake_build, %cmake_install and
> > %ctest macro will be created (and backported to the
> > older
> > supported Fedora releases) to perform various operations that are
> > commonly used with CMake in a backend-agnostic (Makefiles, Ninja,
> > etc.) way.
> > 
> > Packages that will stop building are trivial to fix and will be
> > adjusted either by maintainers or change owners.
> > 
> > == Owner ==
> > * Name: [[User:ignatenkobrain|Igor Raits]], [[User:besser82|Björn
> > Esser]], [[User:ngompa|Neal Gompa]]
> > * Email: ignatenkobr...@fedoraproject.org, 
> > besse...@fedoraproject.org,
> > ngomp...@gmail.com
> 
> How does this affect the many packages that already build in a
> separate 
> build folder manually? There are even several specfile templates that
> contain the boilerplate for that.

If they assume that builddir will be in `.`, they will break. And we
will fix them.

To prevent breaking, it is enough to specify `-B .` or setting
`%{_vpath_builddir}` to `.`.

> And why is it worth making a potentially incompatible change to the
> %cmake 
> macro when it can already be done with the existing one?

Not sure if I follow, what means "can already be done with the existing
one"? Does it mean that you can already specify a build dir via CLI and
some packages already do (e.g. libsolv)?
> 
> Kevin Kofler
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Re: Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal: Default animated background for Fedora Workstation

2020-06-15 Thread Igor Raits
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Hash: SHA512

On Mon, 2020-06-15 at 16:10 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DefaultAnimatedBackground
> 
> == Summary ==
> Fedora Workstation 33 uses animate background as default.
> 
> == Owner ==
> * Name: [[User:luya| Luya Tshimbalanga]]
> * Email: luyaATfedoraproject.org
> * Product: Workstation
> 
> 
> == Detailed Description ==
> 
> Starting from Release 33, Fedora Workstation uses default animated
> background as a visual showcase. Spins and lab maintainers running on
> desktop environment unable to support animated wallpaper will be able
> to select a different frame from the default (and variant)
> background.

I was actually surprised that we don't do that already!

> == Benefit to Fedora ==
> 
> Fedora Workstation will showcase its animated background seamlessly
> as default.

I am not sure if the Change Proposal is actually needed for this, but
thanks for working on it.

> Does this improve specific Spins or Editions?
>   Design Suite Labs, which is based from Workstation, and
> Fedora Silverblue will take advantage of its change. Other Spins and
> Labs will remains unaffected unless their respective maintainers wish
> to use the default animated background.
> 
> 
> == Scope ==
> * Proposal owners:
> Fedora Workstation may need a slight increase of its ISO file size in
> order to implement the animated backgrounds which are in PNG format.
> Each frame from animation will be selectable from the Background
> Settings.
> 
> * Other developers: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> * Release engineering: Possibly a slight increase of ISO file.
> * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
> 
> == Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
> N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> 
> == How To Test ==
> N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> 
> == User Experience ==
> Users will notice an animation of the default background related to
> the time of the day.
> 
> == Dependencies ==
> N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> 
> == Contingency Plan ==
> * Contingency mechanism: Revert to the default static background
> * Contingency deadline: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> * Blocks release? N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> 
> == Documentation ==
> N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> 
> == Release Notes ==
> N/A
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ben Cotton
> He / Him / His
> Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream
> Red Hat
> TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
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Re: Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal: NSS dbm support removal

2020-06-15 Thread Igor Raits
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On Mon, 2020-06-15 at 16:10 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/NSSDBMRemoval
> 
> == Summary ==
> Network Security Services (NSS) historically supports 2 different
> database backends, based on SQLite and dbm. Since Fedora 28, the
> SQLite backend has been used by default and the dbm backend has been
> deprecated ([[Changes/NSSDefaultFileFormatSql|NSS Default File Format
> SQL]]). This Change is about removing the support for the dbm backend
> entirely.
> 
> == Owner ==
> * Name: [[User:ueno| Daiki Ueno]]
> * Email: du...@redhat.com
> 
> == Detailed Description ==
> Applications that use the NSS library often use a database for
> storage
> of keys, certificates and trust. NSS supports two different storage
> formats, one is based on SQLite and another one is based on dbm
> files.
> 
> Today's default file format used by NSS, used when applications omit
> the type parameter, is the SQLite file format, and the older dbm
> format has been considered as deprecated since Fedora 28, because it
> has several drawbacks such as lack of support for parallel access to
> the storage.
> 
> As the default change was made 2 years ago, and NSS provides a
> transparent migration mechanism from the dbm format to the SQLite
> format, the suggestion is to completely disable the dbm backend.
> 
> == Benefit to Fedora ==
> There are a few benefits:
> * By disabling the dbm database, the size of the library binary will
> be slightly smaller
> * The NSS developers will be able to focus on the new file format
> 
> == Scope ==
> * Proposal owners:
> A build time environment variable (NSS_DISABLE_DBM) needs to be set.
> 
> * Other developers: N/A
> * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
> 
> == Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
> The impact should be limited, as long as the users always update from
> the previous version. That would ensure the existing databases on the
> system are properly migrated. Therefore, we propose this as a Self
> Contained Change, rather than a System Wide Change.

Does it mean that people who upgrade from F31 to F33 will work just
fine?

> In the discussion on the fedora-devel list, it was pointed that
> pesign
> package embedded the dbm format database. It has now been resolved in
> [https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1827902 bug 1827902].
> 
> == How To Test ==
> N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> 
> == User Experience ==
> No user visible changes.
> 
> == Dependencies ==
> N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> 
> == Contingency Plan ==
> * Contingency mechanism: Revert the shipped configuration
> * Contingency deadline: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> * Blocks release? No
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ben Cotton
> He / Him / His
> Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream
> Red Hat
> TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
> ___
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Fedora-Retired-Packages

2020-06-15 Thread Igor Raits
ackage.
> 
> == Contingency Plan ==
> * Contingency mechanism: Drop `fedora-retired-package`. Or remove
> `Obsoletes` from this sub-package.
> * Contingency deadline: Beta freeze
> * Blocks release? No
> 
> == Documentation ==
> TBD
> 
> == Release Notes ==
> TBD
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ben Cotton
> He / Him / His
> Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream
> Red Hat
> TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
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Re: New protobuf blocked by old protobuf from module [f32]

2020-06-15 Thread Igor Raits
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On Mon, 2020-06-15 at 13:52 +0200, Tomasz Torcz wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:43:37PM +0200, Igor Raits wrote:
> > >   - package protobuf-3.11.2-2.fc32.i686 is filtered out by
> > > modular
> > > filtering
> > >   - package protobuf-3.11.2-2.fc32.x86_64 is filtered out by
> > > modular
> > > filtering
> > > 
> > > What is the right way to fix this ?  dnf module list shows me
> > > loads
> > > of
> > > modules, but I'm not seing how to determine which of them are
> > > enabled
> > > vs
> > > disabled, and more importantly which is providing this bogus
> > > outdated
> > > protobuf ?
> > 
> > dnf module reset eclipse
> 
>   Could you please explain the steps how to arrive to this "magic"
> invocation?

dnf list on Daniel's system shows only one protobuf build - protobuf-
3.6.1-6.module_f32+6163+c0e6dcb2. Doing koji list-tags --build
protobuf-3.6.1-6.module_f32+6163+c0e6dcb2 shows:

module-eclipse-2019-06-3220190902131726-a48fff9b
module-eclipse-2019-06-3220190902131726-a48fff9b-build


- From where it is easy to figure out which module it is coming from :)

> -- 
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> to...@pipebreaker.pl   “God is more forgiving.”
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Re: New protobuf blocked by old protobuf from module [f32]

2020-06-15 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On Mon, 2020-06-15 at 11:31 +0100, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote:
> I'm trying to install gmic on my Fedora 32 system, which requries
> opencv,
> which requires protobuf 3.11
> 
> DNF refuses to install any of them though, because protobuf 3.11 is
> blocked
> by modularity:
> 
>   - package protobuf-3.11.2-2.fc32.i686 is filtered out by modular
> filtering
>   - package protobuf-3.11.2-2.fc32.x86_64 is filtered out by modular
> filtering
> 
> All I can see with "dnf list" is a seriously outdated  version from
> an unknown
> module:
> 
> protobuf.x86_64 
> 3.6.1-6.module_f32+6163+c0e6dcb2
> fedora-modular   
> protobuf.x86_64 
> 3.6.1-6.module_f32+6163+c0e6dcb2
> updates-modular  
> 
> What is the right way to fix this ?  dnf module list shows me loads
> of
> modules, but I'm not seing how to determine which of them are enabled
> vs
> disabled, and more importantly which is providing this bogus outdated
> protobuf ?

dnf module reset eclipse

> 
> Regards,
> Daniel
> -- 
> > : https://berrange.com  -o-
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange :|
> > : https://libvirt.org -o-
> > https://fstop138.berrange.com :|
> > : https://entangle-photo.org-o-
> > https://www.instagram.com/dberrange :|
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Is there way to include some sensitive credentials in builds?

2020-06-13 Thread Igor Raits
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Hello,

I am packaging one nice GUI application (newsflash) that is working
with API of some services like feedly. Those require some API key, but
I think it is against their rules to have it included in the plain-text
format in git. I am curious if there is a way how to get those passed
during the build. The key can be passed as an environment variable on
the user's system, but there is no way everybody will be getting their
own keys and I think this is non-trivial process.

I think shim does that by building unsigned copy, then signing it
outside of Fedora infrastructure and making signed build with prebuilt,
signed binaries. This would not help in my case.

Any ideas?
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Re: Datacenter move days 3 and 4

2020-06-12 Thread Igor Raits
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On Thu, 2020-06-11 at 21:24 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> On Thursday, June 11, 2020 9:09:53 PM MST Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > We are working on getting this install moved over to recent
> > fedora or rhel, but for now it's rhel7 and python34.
> 
> RHEL7 is better than RHEL8 anyway. ;)
> 
> I'm planning to skip RHEL8 entirely, it's totally b0rked.

Good to know. Please avoid posting such messages to the mailing lists.
Thanks.

> -- 
> John M. Harris, Jr.
> 
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Inactive maintainer - dmsimard

2020-06-08 Thread Igor Raits
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Anybody knows new contact of David Moreau Simard ?
Seems that email is not active anymore.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1841624
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Some services are failing to start with mount namespace errors

2020-06-07 Thread Igor Raits
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On fully updated rawhide,

● systemd-hostnamed.service - Hostname Service
 Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/systemd-hostnamed.service;
static; vendor preset: disabled)
Drop-In: /usr/lib/systemd/system/systemd-hostnamed.service.d
 └─disable-privatedevices.conf
 Active: failed (Result: exit-code) since Sun 2020-06-07 07:56:50
CEST; 2min 19s ago
   Docs: man:systemd-hostnamed.service(8)
 man:hostname(5)
 man:machine-info(5)

https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/hostnamed
Process: 4654 ExecStart=/usr/lib/systemd/systemd-hostnamed
(code=exited, status=226/NAMESPACE)
   Main PID: 4654 (code=exited, status=226/NAMESPACE)
CPU: 7ms

Jun 07 07:56:50 igors-t480s systemd[1]: Starting Hostname Service...
Jun 07 07:56:50 igors-t480s systemd[4654]: systemd-hostnamed.service:
Failed to set up mount namespacing: /run/systemd/unit-root/: Permission
denied
Jun 07 07:56:50 igors-t480s systemd[4654]: systemd-hostnamed.service:
Failed at step NAMESPACE spawning /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-hostnamed:
Permission denied
Jun 07 07:56:50 igors-t480s systemd[1]: systemd-hostnamed.service: Main
process exited, code=exited, status=226/NAMESPACE
Jun 07 07:56:50 igors-t480s systemd[1]: systemd-hostnamed.service:
Failed with result 'exit-code'.
Jun 07 07:56:50 igors-t480s systemd[1]: Failed to start Hostname
Service.

Also seen this with fprintd and systemd-timedated.

fprintd.service: Failed to set up mount namespacing: /run/systemd/unit-
root/: Permission denied
fprintd.service: Failed at step NAMESPACE spawning
/usr/libexec/fprintd: Permission denied

Restarting those services make them work fine sometimes, but not
always.

Any ideas where to report this bug?
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-06 Thread Igor Raits
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On Sat, 2020-06-06 at 02:09 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Igor Raits wrote:
> > The change says it will use 50% of user’s RAM size, but not more
> > than
> > 4G.
> 
> But if the machine has only, say, 4 GiB of RAM, then the amount of
> extra RAM 
> you get that way might not be sufficient to avoid OOM.
> 
> > On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 08:54 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: 
> > > Also -1 to adding something to the core system that is written in
> > > a
> > > language
> > > for which we do not even have dynamic linking support. Or even
> > > real
> > > static
> > > linking support, as opposed to packaging libraries as source
> > > code.
> > 
> > This is not fair. It is a programming language that is safer than C
> > and
> > is already used by some projects that we ship. rpm-ostree, firefox,
> > librsvg2 and others.
> 
> 1. librsvg2 and firefox are not really core system components. They
> are
>    UI-related packages (an image processing library and a web
> browser),
>    which is at least one layer higher.
> 2. rpm-ostree is only a core system component if you use an ostree-
> based
>    installation. In the default Fedora system, it is not.
> 3. I think that it is a bad enough precedent that even these packages
> are
>    using Rust. We do not have a reasonable way to package software
> written
>    in Rust. Packaging libraries as source code is not reasonable in a
> binary
>    distribution. (And yes, I was opposed to the Go packaging
> guidelines from
>    day 1, and the Rust packaging guidelines copy the same broken
> concepts,
>    so I am opposed to those as well.) As a result, shipping Rust
> software in
>    Fedora is very painful, because everything is essentially
> statically
>    linked (actually compiled on demand at application compile time
> and then
>    statically linked into the application).

Why is it painful? You have all dependencies packaged that follow
semver (not like Go) and it is quite easy to build those packages.

Another example here could be nodejs, even though it does not link
statically it is just PITA to package since ecosystem is just full of
very small libraries that do not really like to cooperate so you need
to have tens of different versions of a lib in a repo. I consider this
much bigger problem than the Rust has in Fedora.

> 4. The Rust toolchain is also inherently foreign on Fedora because it
> is not
>    based on GCC (but on LLVM).

That way you can say that mesa is foreign because it uses LLVM. If
there is ever alternative compiler to Rust that is based on GCC and has
feature parity, we can definitely consider trying it out. But the
referene compiler works just well.

> 
> Core system components should be written in C. The higher layers (UI,
> extra 
> CLI tools, etc.) can use C++ as well. IMHO, any other programming
> language 
> is just a pain.

We also have Fedora CoreOS that uses
https://github.com/coreos/afterburn and
https://github.com/coreos/zincati that are written in Rust as well and
those are core system utilities.

I don't think saying "Ditch Python, Ruby, Perl, … from the system
components" is useful for anyone since you know that it is not going to
happen.

> Kevin Kofler
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-06 Thread Igor Raits
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On Sat, 2020-06-06 at 02:19 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Chris Murphy wrote:
> > So yes it's well suited for these cases and the proposal does
> > include
> > them. If they wish to be left out, that's up to those working
> > groups.
> > It's possible to make sure /etc/systemd/zram-generator is not
> > present.
> 
> Also, why does this have to be a systemd generator? As a user
> administrating 
> his own systems, I find those to be extremely annoying, because they
> do 
> stuff behind my back that I never asked to happen and I have to mask
> them 
> (and/or uninstall them completely) to get rid of the unwanted
> behavior.
> 
> E.g., the systemd generator that tries to automount partitions not
> listed in 
> fstab based on their GPT UUIDs is just broken. If I do not have the 
> partition in the fstab, I left it out for a reason (e.g., the swap
> partition 
> I have on my SSD in case I ever need it, which is normally NOT
> mounted to 
> avoid wearing out the SSD). So why does systemd want to second-guess
> me and 
> mount that partition behind my back unless I go out of my way to mask
> the 
> magic generator?
> 
> So why can this zram feature not be a line in fstab, a parameter
> passed 
> through the kernel CLI, or some other solution that is easily
> tweakable and 
> that will definitely not affect upgrades of existing installations
> (unlike 
> yet another systemd generator, if it happens to get installed for
> whatever 
> reason)?
> 
> IMHO, the only systemd generator that should ever mount partitions of
> any 
> kind (including virtual ones such as zram) is the systemd-fstab-
> generator. 
> If you want more stuff mounted, it should be added to /etc/fstab,
> that's 
> what that file is for!

Well, with systemd.mount it is already possible to mount things that
are not in /etc/fstab. That file has same disadvantages as any other
configuration files in «unstructured» format. You can't override some
specific setting of it, disable some mount by simple command (that is
not sed) and so on.

Also if AIUI, it is not trivial to make it work with just fstab because
something has to create a swap during the boot and fstab entry clearly
can't do that.

> Kevin Kofler
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CompilerPolicy Change

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
 situation, so I won't try to
> give an
> opinion there.
> 
> Perhaps in this case we leave it up to the Fedora packager?
> 
> > 
> > > In some ways this means there is no "default" compiler for
> > > Fedora.  The default
> > > is whatever the upstream project supports/recommends.  However,
> > > there are
> > > probably many packages with upstreams that are ambivalent about
> > > their compiler
> > > choice.  For those packages I would recommend we keep the status
> > > quo at the
> > > current time.  For a package with a dead upstream, the Fedora
> > > packager should be
> > > able to select the compiler they want to use for the package.
> > 
> > I would prefer the policy to have a stronger preference for GCC
> > when
> > there is no good reason to change. Currently it's worded like
> > keeping
> > the status quo is Jeff's personal opinion. I would like it to be
> > policy.
> So that text was literally copy and pasted from internal discussions.
> So, yea,
> it's my opinion and I think it's one of the option questions this
> body needs to
> hammer out to more precisely define any updated policy.
> 
> My preference would be to stick with GCC when upstream has no
> recommendations/support policy around supported compilers to avoid
> unnecessary
> churn.
> 
> I would also be willing to support the Fedora packager's discretion
> if they can
> make a case for it and upstream has no strong preference.  For
> example a packager
> may simply be more familiar with Clang/LLVM and thus more adept at
> understanding
> what a particular diagnostic means and how to fix it properly.
> 
> Changing, but then expecting you, Tom, Jason or someone else to fix
> or interpret
> diagnostics for them no longer working code isn't reasonable IMHO.
> 
> > 
> > i.e. where the current policy is that you *must* use GCC, unless
> > granted a specific exception, I would like it to be that you
> > *should*
> > use GCC unless there's a good reason not to.
> I could live with this so long as we define "good reason" to include
> upstream
> preferring one toolchain over the other.
> 
> > 
> > "Upstream only builds+tests with Clang and using GCC requires lots
> > of
> > work from the Fedora maintainer to fix problems that upstream don't
> > care about" is a good reason to use Clang.
> > 
> > "I've heard the cool kids use Clang, so I changed my package to use
> > it, but I don't know what these compiler errors mean" is not a good
> > reason to switch if it just makes work for other people.
> > 
> > When there is a real advantage to using a particular compiler, I do
> > think it's good that packagers should be able to make an informed
> > choice.
> I think we're actually largely in agreement.  I don't want change for
> change's
> sake or because the cool developers use X Y or Z.  I want the change
> to have a
> real technical reason behind it.
> 
> > 
> > Ideally we'd have CI building (nearly) everything with *both* GCC
> > and
> > Clang, and finding and fixing problems in packages and in both
> > compilers. But that's probably not realistic (yet?).
> You may remember me advocating for this in our meeting in Montreal :-
> )  So, yea,
> I'd be totally on board with something like this.  I think Tillman
> was also
> interested and even floated the idea of finding additional Fedora
> builder
> resources to facilitate this kind of scheme.
> 
> The big problem then becomes getting packagers to address the
> diagnostics.  I've
> been disappointed at how many packages are ignoring diagnostics
> (particularly
> those with security implications) and I'm actively looking at schemes
> to improve
> this situation :-)

Just make them error by default and people will have to deal with it :)

> Jeff
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CompilerPolicy Change

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 14:16 -0600, Jeff Law wrote:
> On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 22:07 +0200, Igor Raits wrote:
> > 
> > Just curious, how is it done in RHEL? Just some kind of CI that
> > analyses all builds or?
> So we have a step that sits between the build phase and when the
> resultant
> packages land in the distro which runs annocheck to validate options
> used, CET
> coverage across the binary, PIE, etc etc.  If that annocheck run
> fails, then the
> packages are not allowed into the distribution, buildroots, etc.
> 
> We flipped it on a couple years ago in the run up to RHEL 8 and it
> proved to be
> quite valuable.

Seems like a thing we should do in Fedora CI for each update!

Thanks again for all the work on making distribution better!

> Jeff
> 
> 
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 12:58 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> On Friday, June 5, 2020 12:39:05 PM MST Igor Raits wrote:
> > On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 12:19 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> > 
> > > On Friday, June 5, 2020 12:16:36 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 1:10 PM John M. Harris Jr <
> > > > joh...@splentity.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Friday, June 5, 2020 12:03:03 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > > In discussions with both cloud and server folks, their use
> > > > > > cases often
> > > > > > do not even create disk-based swap at all. A small swap-on-
> > > > > > zram
> > > > > > provides all the benefits of inactive anonymous page
> > > > > > eviction,
> > > > > > including reducing reclaim of file pages, without the black
> > > > > > hole
> > > > > > performance problems of swap-on-drive.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > So yes it's well suited for these cases and the proposal
> > > > > > does
> > > > > > include
> > > > > > them. If they wish to be left out, that's up to those
> > > > > > working
> > > > > > groups.
> > > > > > It's possible to make sure /etc/systemd/zram-generator is
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > present.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > That doesn't seem to reflect reality. If you download the
> > > > > Server
> > > > > image
> > > > > right now, and go with its automatic partitioning scheme
> > > > > generation,
> > > > > it'll give you a swap partition on LVM. This is correct for
> > > > > most
> > > > > servers,
> > > > > not necessarily the LVM part, but having swap on disk.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > The proposal recommends changing this. Cloud and Server folks
> > > > will
> > > > decide what's best for their use cases, not me.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > In that case, would you be open to changing this proposal to only
> > > affect
> > > Workstation?
> > 
> > 
> > I think it is fine to have the proposal as it is. Those groups will
> > chime in if they do not like this approach. Having things
> > consistent
> > across editions (in this regard) makes more sense to me tbh.
> 
> What makes sense for desktops doesn't necessarily make sense for
> servers, or 
> other environments. Fedora isn't just a desktop distro. Additionally,
> what 
> GNOME folks believe to be best is normally not the best for other
> desktop 
> environments.

Can you be more specific about potential problems you see in other use-
cases like server?

> -- 
> John M. Harris, Jr.
> 
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CompilerPolicy Change

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 13:53 -0600, Jeff Law wrote:
> > On 05/06/20 10:26 +0200, Igor Raits wrote:
> > ...
> > > Well, upstreams are not necessarily enabling many security
> > > features
> > > or
> > > optimizations. So you are effectively saying "upstream knows
> > > better"
> > > where I would have to disagree with you. 
> > 
> > Yes, this is a very good point.
> > 
> > Many of Fedora's packages have upstreams that are not using the
> > latest
> > compilers, libraries, security features etc.
> > 
> > Just because upstream hasn't been updated to work with compiler
> > hardening features doesn't mean we should disable those features.
> > Just
> > because upstream's code is not portable to more than one compiler
> > doesn't mean we shouldn't send them bugs (or better still,
> > patches).<> 
> Right.  Though I think the security side of this largely belongs in
> redhat-rpm-
> config and moving annobin/annocheck into an enforcement role (like
> we've done
> with RHEL).
> 
> We did this for RHEL and while painful, getting the vast majority of
> packages to
> honor the flags injection and verification via annobin/annocheck
> before the
> resultant packages can be included in the distro has been a big win
> and enables
> us to do a lot of useful things knowing that the flags injection
> works well.
> 
> Fedora is behind on this.  While most packages honor flags injection,
> we don't
> actually know which do not (either by accident or design) and we
> don't have a way
> to easily find them.   So things like CET in enforcing mode by
> default are going
> to be harder to achieve in Fedora than in RHEL.  But like so many
> things, I don't
> have the time to push on something like this for Fedora.

Just curious, how is it done in RHEL? Just some kind of CI that
analyses all builds or?

> Jeff
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CompilerPolicy Change

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 13:36 -0600, Jeff Law wrote:
> > On Thu, 2020-06-04 at 16:30 -0400, Igor Raits wrote:
> > ...
> > 
> > Sadly some upstreams insist on clang just because they like it
> > more,
> > without any technical reason. The question that comes to my mind:
> > Should we still try to convince upstreams to use GCC in such cases
> > or
> > not?
> It happens (choosing Clang because they like it) and while we can
> (and have)
> engaged upstreams on this topic and I suspect we will continue to do
> so in some
> cases.
> 
> But in the end I think we still have to respect the upstream
> project's choices,
> even if it's just because they like Clang/LLVM more than GCC.
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > Also does this mean that Clang is now fully supported compiler by
> > full-
> > time working people @ Red Hat in toolchains team that are also
> > contributing to upstream? Just curious if we will be able to "fully
> > support" people when we find bugs in the compiler.
> Yes.  Absolutely.  Tom S & Serge G directly.  Others in a more
> indirect capacity.
>  
> > 
> > And also, does it mean that we will be following same pattern as
> > with
> > GCC to test pre-release versions in rawhide, do the mass rebuild
> > and so
> > on?
> Some of that is already happening internally.  Tom's got a tester
> which spins
> Fedora packages with Clang/LLVM.  I'm not sure if he's trying to
> cover the whole
> distro, but it is running regularly (it shares a jenkins instance
> with my
> tester).
> 
> 
> 
> > ...
> > 
> > I think this is not fully true because clang / gcc produce
> > different
> > binaries in terms of size / performance. So just switching compiler
> > in
> > some package may result in significat (hopefully not) performance
> > gain
> > / drop.
> Certainly switching compilers can result in performance changes. 
> Having been
> through this kind of disruptive change on the other side (GCC vs
> various vendor
> compilers through the 90s), what tends to happen is the compilers get
> to a point
> where they're typically +-5% of each other on the vast majority of
> codes.  That's
> where Clang/LLVM and GCC are today based on the data I've seen.
> 
> > 
> > Also we probably should mention that -fstack-clash-protection is
> > not
> > available in clang, so in theory binaries can be less secure due to
> > that.
> Clang/LLVM is closing that gap rapidly.  I fully expect stack clash
> protection to
> be at parity on the relevant platforms except aarch64 by LLVM 11 and
> a reasonable
> chance to reach parity on aarch64 by LLVM 12.

Sure thing! I just asked to have it documented that as of F33 it is not
yet implemented, but is planned to be worked on. So that users do not
expect it to have all security features built-in as on F33.

> 
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > I think this should mention that annobin plugin should be prepared
> > for
> > clang.
> Nick Clifton is already working on that :-)  
> 
> Jeff
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 12:19 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> On Friday, June 5, 2020 12:16:36 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 1:10 PM John M. Harris Jr <
> > joh...@splentity.com>
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Friday, June 5, 2020 12:03:03 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > > In discussions with both cloud and server folks, their use
> > > > cases often
> > > > do not even create disk-based swap at all. A small swap-on-zram
> > > > provides all the benefits of inactive anonymous page eviction,
> > > > including reducing reclaim of file pages, without the black
> > > > hole
> > > > performance problems of swap-on-drive.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > So yes it's well suited for these cases and the proposal does
> > > > include
> > > > them. If they wish to be left out, that's up to those working
> > > > groups.
> > > > It's possible to make sure /etc/systemd/zram-generator is not
> > > > present.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > That doesn't seem to reflect reality. If you download the Server
> > > image
> > > right now, and go with its automatic partitioning scheme
> > > generation,
> > > it'll give you a swap partition on LVM. This is correct for most
> > > servers,
> > > not necessarily the LVM part, but having swap on disk.
> > 
> > 
> > The proposal recommends changing this. Cloud and Server folks will
> > decide what's best for their use cases, not me.
> 
> In that case, would you be open to changing this proposal to only
> affect 
> Workstation?

I think it is fine to have the proposal as it is. Those groups will
chime in if they do not like this approach. Having things consistent
across editions (in this regard) makes more sense to me tbh.

> -- 
> John M. Harris, Jr.
> 
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 12:18 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> On Friday, June 5, 2020 12:12:40 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 1:07 PM John M. Harris Jr <
> > joh...@splentity.com>
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Friday, June 5, 2020 11:48:14 AM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 6:43 AM Michael Catanzaro <
> > > > mcatanz...@gnome.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 1:52 am, Chris Murphy
> > > > > 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > That is the plan, otherwise the swap-on-zram device
> > > > > > probably never
> > > > > > gets used. And then its overhead, which is small but not
> > > > > > zero, is
> > > > > > just
> > > > > > a waste.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I thought the plan was to get rid of the disk-based swap
> > > > > partition,
> > > > > since it has an unacceptable impact on system responsiveness?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Default new installations, yes. No disk-based swap partition.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > For upgrades, there's no mechanism to remove an existing
> > > > swap-on-drive. And the installer will still permit swap-on-
> > > > drive being
> > > > added in custom partitioning. Both of these paths results in
> > > > two swap
> > > > devices.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > We could ask Anaconda, if a custom installation creates swap-
> > > > on-disk,
> > > > to remove /etc/systemd/zram-generator.conf. And in that case,
> > > > users
> > > > will not get swap-on-zram. And we could also forgo the change
> > > > being
> > > > applied on upgrades.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > It may be best to respect the user's decision, and not add a zram
> > > device
> > > on upgraded systems. This would lead to less unexpected behavior.
> > > I'd
> > > support that, for sure :)
> > 
> > 
> > Contra argument: It also leads to fragmentation of the user base.
> > Most
> > users use a distribution because they trust the decisions. And
> > while
> > it is only a preference, not a policy the Workstation Product
> > Requirements Document says  "Upgrading the system multiple times
> > through the upgrade process should give a result that is the same
> > as
> > an original install of Fedora Workstation."
> > 
> > There is a balancing act here that should be considered because a
> > large percent of Fedora users upgrade rather than reprovision. It
> > might even be the majority case.
> 
> Well, that's for the GNOME stuff. This is a system-wide change
> proposal, is it 
> not? Additionally, you could still be meeting that requirement here,
> as a new 
> install with the same options selected, that is, to have a swap
> partition, 
> would disable the zram device. That'd be a nice middleground for
> users like 
> myself that don't have enough RAM to waste on a zram device. I'm
> writing this 
> email on a Lenovo ThinkPad X200 Tablet with 6 GiB of RAM, where
> giving half of 
> my RAM to zram would kill my system's performance, if not quickly
> cause OOM.

Either you did not read the page or I misunderstand how zram works. It
will take 3G of your memory and call it a SWAP. With a compression. So
essentially, if the starts will be aligned you will end up with 9G of
memory. Of course, if that is not enough, you can add on top of that
swap on the disk.

> -- 
> John M. Harris, Jr.
> 
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CompilerPolicy Change

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 13:25 -0400, Robert Marcano via devel wrote:
> On 6/5/20 12:31 PM, Jeff Law wrote:
> > On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 16:23 +, 
> > devel-requ...@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
> > > Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 11:15:39 -0500
> > > From: Steven Munroe 
> > > Subject: Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal:
> > > CompilerPolicy
> > >   Change
> > > To: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > > Message-ID:
> > >   <
> > > CAPrKuAohVppTu_B4GDoxSMW=kzxtq_m13utpozoccok0xoz...@mail.gmail.com
> > > >
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > > 
> > > I would also add that Clang/LLVM is missing some of the newer C
> > > language revisions at least for the pppc64le target.
> > > 
> > > Both IEEE/ISO  _Float128 and _Decimalxx support is missing. Ie
> > > the
> > > type is not supported or if supported basic arithmetic and math.h
> > > support is missing. Also finding bugs for in-line assembly and
> > > missing
> > > constraints needed to work around the missing language features.
> > > 
> > > Also Clang's poor support for constant folding makes using
> > > __int128
> > > (and vector __int128) harder than it needs to be.
> > > 
> > > This is a significant impact for enabling my project (PVECLIB)
> > > for
> > > Clang. As-is a number of project features have been disabled for
> > > Clang.
> > Clearly your upstream project is still using GCC then and as such
> > the Fedora
> > package would continue to use GCC.
> > 
> > We're not changing the default here.  We're just removing the anti
> > Clang/LLVM
> > policy and allowing upstreams to select the compiler that best
> > suits their needs.
> > Clearly Clang/LLVM is not the right choice for your project.
> 
> This looks fine, but why not add to the policy that for upstream 
> projects that have no defined preference of compiler, the package
> have 
> to use GCC in order to have at least some standard and not let the 
> packager bias be the rule, unless some measurable advantage is found
> to 
> use LLVM

This has been discussed in this thread, Jeff wants to keep GCC a
default choice for packages. Just to have an option to select Clang in
some cases.


> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > I think Clang needs more time to cook.
> > I'd respectfully disagree.  There are certain features that GCC
> > supports that
> > Clang does not and vice-versa.  But broadly they are comparable. 
> > What this means
> > is some projects that are using bleeding edge features may have a
> > hard need for
> > one toolchain or the other.  And the proposal I've made accounts
> > for that by
> > allowing the upstream project to select the compiler.  In your case
> > it would be
> > GCC.  For others it could well be Clang/LLVM.
> > 
> > jeff
> > 
> > 
> > 
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 11:08 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> On Friday, June 5, 2020 10:49:52 AM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 4:35 AM Vitaly Zaitsev via devel
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 04.06.2020 22:30, Ben Cotton wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Swap is useful, except when it's slow. zram is a RAM drive that
> > > > uses
> > > > compression. Create a swap-on-zram during start-up. And no
> > > > longer use
> > > > swap partitions by default.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I'm strongly against this, because zram will replace disk swap
> > > and
> > > disable hibernation, which is very useful on laptops.
> > 
> > 
> > Already discussed in the 'support hibernation' thread.
> > 
> > Most laptops today have UEFI Secure Boot enabled by default and
> > therefore hibernation isn't possible. And even when the laptop
> > doesn't
> > have Secure Boot enabled, there's a forest of bugs. It works for
> > some
> > people and not others. It was working for me on one laptop in
> > February, consistently doesn't work now and I haven't gotten a
> > reply
> > yet from upstream about the problem.
> 
> It may be true that most laptops have "Secure Boot" enabled, but not
> those 
> running Fedora. We don't have numbers to support that claim, and most
> devices 
> require "Secure Boot" to be disabled,  or to have the mode changed so
> that it 
> accepts new keys, to install Fedora.

They don't require disablement. Fedora shim loader is signed by
Microsoft that means it is installed in most (all?) laptops.

> -- 
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CompilerPolicy Change

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 12:36 -0500, Richard Shaw wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 10:33 AM Igor Raits <
> ignatenkobr...@fedoraproject.org>
> wrote:
> 
> > It is slightly different, you need to use `%global toolchain
> > clang`,
> > but otherwise yes.
> > 
> 
> Is this documented somewhere? I've been manually sed'ing out the
> incompatible flags for PySide2 since it uses some clang only
> features.

Not yet. Since the change is not approved, it is not something what you
should be «officially» using.

> Thanks,
> Richard
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CompilerPolicy Change

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 11:15 -0500, Steven Munroe wrote:
> I would also add that Clang/LLVM is missing some of the newer C
> language revisions at least for the pppc64le target.
> 
> Both IEEE/ISO  _Float128 and _Decimalxx support is missing. Ie the
> type is not supported or if supported basic arithmetic and math.h
> support is missing. Also finding bugs for in-line assembly and
> missing
> constraints needed to work around the missing language features.
> 
> Also Clang's poor support for constant folding makes using __int128
> (and vector __int128) harder than it needs to be.
> 
> This is a significant impact for enabling my project (PVECLIB) for
> Clang. As-is a number of project features have been disabled for
> Clang.

But this is not what is being proposed. If your project does not work
with clang, everyone is happy to use GCC. If it does, but there is no
reason to use clang - we will keep using GCC. Where change comes to
play if upstream prefers clang for some really good reason - we will
allow it to be built with clang instead of GCC.


> I think Clang needs more time to cook.
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 15:11 +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 05, 2020 at 01:50:29AM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 12:33 AM Milan Crha 
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > On Thu, 2020-06-04 at 16:30 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
> > > > ... The memory used is not preallocated. It's
> > > > dynamically allocated and deallocated, on demand. ...
> > > > 
> > > > The system will use RAM normally up until it's full, and then
> > > > start
> > > > paging out to swap-on-zram, same as a conventional swap-on-
> > > > drive
> > > 
> > > Hi,
> > > I confess I've absolutely no idea about this, I mean how that
> > > works in
> > > practice, but when you tell me "we do not allocate on start, we
> > > allocate on demand, when the memory is full", then, I hope a
> > > logic
> > > question is, where do you allocate, when the memory is already
> > > full? If
> > > there's some threshold, then it's quite the same as preallocate
> > > the
> > > memory.
> > 
> > Yes, it's an oversimplification. There isn't a case when the memory
> > is
> > truly completely full. The kernel starts to swap before that, and
> > it
> > can move things around from buffers, cached, and even do reclaim,
> > in
> > order to start allocating memory to the zram device. And at that
> > point
> > the compression permits a greater rate of freed memory due to
> > eviction, than loss due to the allocation to the zram device.
> > 
> > This is taken just now from a laptop with 2+ days uptime
> > 
> > ]$ free -m
> >   totalusedfree  shared  buff/cache
> > available
> > Mem:   78453292 699 5323852
> > 3714
> > Swap:  3921 1923729
> > $ swapon
> > NAME   TYPE  SIZE USED PRIO
> > /dev/zram0 partition 3.8G 193M   -2
> > $ zramctl
> > NAME   ALGORITHM DISKSIZE   DATA COMPR TOTAL STREAMS MOUNTPOINT
> > /dev/zram0 lzo-rle   3.9G 187.3M   50M 52.7M   4 [SWAP]
> > $
> > 
> > This is a small amount of swap in use right now. In this case,
> > ~190M
> > has been paged out to swap, and the zram device has compressed that
> > to
> > ~50M. That's pretty good, so it suggests highly compressible data.
> > The
> > savings is ~140M. That 140M can be used to avoid reclaim of file
> > pages
> > (programs can stay in RAM instead of being pushed out and read back
> > in
> > later) or for more active user data, etc. Anything really.
> 
> I'm unclear: that ~50M is still in RAM?  Or it's compressed on a disk
> somewhere?

IIUC, it takes some part of the RAM and just compresses it on the fly.
For example, I have 32G memory on my laptop and when I enable zram
device, I basically have 23G listed in free as memory and 11G as the
swap. And that 11G is supposed to be compressed memory (in avg cases
with 2:1 ration).

Of course, as part of this change, it will be made that it can't take
more than 4G no matter what by default.

> Also does the swap partition on disk contain compressed pages, or
> uncompressed pages, or a mix of both?

With zram there is no partition on disk, or was this question about
something else?

> Also what is the compression algorithm?  zlib or zstd or something
> else?

zramctl shows ALGORITHM

NAME   ALGORITHM DISKSIZE DATA COMPR TOTAL STREAMS MOUNTPOINT
/dev/zram0 lzo-rle  11.7G   4K   74B   12K   8 [SWAP]

So it is lzo-rle by default, but it should be possible to override this
algorithm. There is an RFE for this already at zram-generator github.

> The description (I think copied from the kernel documentation) was
> really unclear about how this works.
> 
> Rich.
> 
> -- 
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> http://people.redhat.com/~rjones
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> http://rwmj.wordpress.com
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---

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CompilerPolicy Change

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 08:07 -0700, Tom Stellard wrote:
> On 06/05/2020 03:42 AM, Vitaly Zaitsev via devel wrote:
> > On 04.06.2020 22:30, Ben Cotton wrote:
> > > Fedora has historically forced packages to build with GCC unless
> > > the
> > > upstream project for the package only supported Clang/LLVM.  This
> > > change proposal replaces that policy with one where compiler
> > > selection
> > > for Fedora follows the package's upstream preferences.
> > 
> > +1 for this change.
> > 
> > Also RHBZ#1559007 need to be fixed as well. I'm very tired of
> > patching
> > Fedora build flags in order to remove unsupported by Clang options.
> > 
> 
> redhat-rpm-config-160-1.fc33 has a %toolchain_clang macro that you
> can put
> in your spec file that will only add clang supported CC flags.

It is slightly different, you need to use `%global toolchain clang`,
but otherwise yes.

> -Tom
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Re: [Fedora-packaging] Let's standardize the way to disable tests during RPM build?

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 16:10 +0200, Tomas Orsava wrote:
> Hi,
> I think it would be useful to have a standard way of disabling the 
> running of tests during RPM build (in the %check section of a spec
> file).
> 
> I see a lot of packages already having %bcond's or other macro 
> definitions to archieve this, but each package has their own way, 
> there's no real standard. Thus you have to first look into the spec, 
> locate the appropriate %bcond or macro name and only then you can 
> disable the tests.
> 
> I would like to propose two approaches:
> 
> (a) Add a *SHOULD* rule to the guidelines that specifies what is the 
> preferred way to conditionalize the tests.
> 
> (b) Or, if that's too strong, mention in the guidelines the common 
> methods that are being used (e.g. %bcond tests and %bcond check) so
> that 
> new packagers have something to use.
> 
> What do you think?

I'd like to have this finally be implemented in
https://github.com/rpm-software-management/rpm/issues/316. That way it
would be simply rpmbuild --nocheck or define %_without_check 1 which
would skip %check section entirely.

For now, all Rust crates just have `%bcond_without check` so using `--
without check` works just fine there.

Since this would be more generic thing to the RPM ecosystem, adding
rpm-ecosystem@ to the copy.

> Tomas
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 07:42 -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 1:52 am, Chris Murphy
>  
> wrote:
> > That is the plan, otherwise the swap-on-zram device probably never
> > gets used. And then its overhead, which is small but not zero, is
> > just
> > a waste.
> 
> I thought the plan was to get rid of the disk-based swap partition, 
> since it has an unacceptable impact on system responsiveness?

If I understand correctly, this is only for upgradepath. The clean
install should have only zram, but I might be wrong.

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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CompilerPolicy Change

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
; is a good reason to use Clang.
> 
> "I've heard the cool kids use Clang, so I changed my package to use
> it, but I don't know what these compiler errors mean" is not a good
> reason to switch if it just makes work for other people.
> 
> When there is a real advantage to using a particular compiler, I do
> think it's good that packagers should be able to make an informed
> choice.

Fully agree here, we should be still preferring GCC and not allow
changing compilers just because it seems cool.

> Ideally we'd have CI building (nearly) everything with *both* GCC and
> Clang, and finding and fixing problems in packages and in both
> compilers. But that's probably not realistic (yet?).

Well, building itself is not that interesting but running some
benchmarks periodically with clang / gcc compiled binaries would be
interesting. Though this definitely is huge amount of work and we
should not block this change on this.

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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 12:34 +0200, Vitaly Zaitsev via devel wrote:
> On 04.06.2020 22:30, Ben Cotton wrote:
> > Swap is useful, except when it's slow. zram is a RAM drive that
> > uses
> > compression. Create a swap-on-zram during start-up. And no longer
> > use
> > swap partitions by default.
> 
> I'm strongly against this, because zram will replace disk swap and
> disable hibernation, which is very useful on laptops.

It does not work in some cases even today anyway. For those who still
want to use hibernation, whether it is some checkbox in anaconda or
magic that guesses if that actually works on your machine (whether it
is laptop and Secure Boot is disabled).

> I suggest zswap instead (with zswap-cli[1] implementation).
> 
> [1]: https://github.com/xvitaly/zswap-cli
> 
> -- 
> Sincerely,
>   Vitaly Zaitsev (vit...@easycoding.org)
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CompilerPolicy Change

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 10:15 +0200, Frantisek Zatloukal wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 9:57 AM Kevin Kofler 
> wrote:
> 
> > Ben Cotton wrote:
> > > == Summary ==
> > > Fedora has historically forced packages to build with GCC unless
> > > the
> > > upstream project for the package only supported Clang/LLVM.  This
> > > change proposal replaces that policy with one where compiler
> > > selection
> > > for Fedora follows the package's upstream preferences.
> > > 
> > > == Owner ==
> > > * Name: Jeff Law
> > > * Email: l...@redhat.com
> > 
> > I am opposed to this change. Chromium and Firefox build fine with
> > GCC. I
> > think that a distribution should be built with a consistent
> > toolchain
> > wherever possible.
> > 
> > Last I checked, there were several reasons why GCC is preferred
> > over
> > Clang/LLVM in Fedora. And if that should ever change (or have
> > changed
> > already), then switching the systemwide default (reversing the
> > rules,
> > i.e.,
> > using GCC only for those packages that do not build with Clang)
> > should be
> > envisioned. But as far as I know, that is not the case at this
> > time,
> > considering runtime performance, security features, etc.
> > 
> > I do not see why we should allow yet another special case for
> > Firefox, nor
> > why we should let random packages make their own choice of compiler
> > and
> > risk
> > running into hidden binary incompatibilities. We have a system
> > compiler
> > for
> > a reason.
> > 
> 
> I don't think we should force Fedora Contributors (Packagers) to
> change/fix
> their packages to compile with GCC if upstream decides, supports and
> tests
> GCC. There are tons of gcc specific patches in chromium [0], there
> were
> some issues in Firefox [1]. Apart from browsers, LibreOffice is going
> to
> use LLVM/Clang from Release 7.0 too, so that would potentially be
> another
> added work to LibreOffice packagers in the future.
> 
> I believe we should make packaging as easy as possible and allowing
> packagers to work with compilers that have upstream support is a
> great way
> to make their lives easier.

I would emphasize here that we should do that as long as performance
does not degrade. Even though it is not really easy to measure it, many
upstreams have some benchmarks so we possibly run those somewhere in
Fedora to see performance changes over time. But I would not block the
change on this.

> 
> I don't know how much of an issue is currently
> missing -fstack-clash-protection support LLVM, but if Mozilla
> distributes
> official Firefox binaries without that flag, Google distributes
> Chrome
> without it, I feel it's not a big deal.

Well, upstreams are not necessarily enabling many security features or
optimizations. So you are effectively saying "upstream knows better"
where I would have to disagree with you.

> [0]
> https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/chromium/blob/master/f/chromium.spec#_205
> # To line 250
> [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1601707
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 10:17 +0200, Igor Raits wrote:
> On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 02:03 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 1:33 AM Igor Raits
> >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > == Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
> > > > 
> > > > Add Supplements:fedora-release-common to zram-generator to pull
> > > > it in
> > > > on upgrades.
> > > 
> > > I would do it other way around just to keep logic sane.
> > 
> > Hmmm.
> 
> The fedora-release package is a "dummy" one, so there is no reason to
> "Supplement" it because it is meaningless, but having it other way
> around should be better.
> 
> > 
> > > 
> > > > Existing systems without swap will have swap-on-zram enabled.
> > > > 
> > > > Existing systems with swap-on-drive, will also have swap-on-
> > > > zram
> > > > enabled (two swap devices), with higher priority for the zram
> > > > device.
> > > > Existing swap-on-drive will not be removed.
> > > 
> > > It would be nice to see this in action, what kind of issues this
> > > might
> > > bring.
> > 
> > A future feature might be zswap for this case. I've done a lot of
> > testing with that too but I think it needs some synthetic or
> > contrived
> > cases to expose the hypothetically better LRU basis efficiency for
> > what to evict from the cache to the swap-on-disk device. But making
> > it
> > easier for people to do these experiments with real workloads is a
> > big
> > part of the feature, while keeping the defaults conservative for
> > starters.
> > 
> > 
> > > I would appreciate here how to get to the state from swap-on-disk
> > > (default workstation) to the new swap-on-zram (new default
> > > workstation). So that people can see better how they would be
> > > affected
> > > by this change.
> > 
> > Good point. The feature for priority is not yet in zram-generator.
> > A
> > work around is to swapoff /dev/zram0 and then swapon -p 3000
> > /dev/zram0. Now it has higher priority than swap-on-disk.
> 
> I mean to convert existing installation to the new way that would be
> installed from scratch, so have only zram and not have physical swap.
> I
> understand that we do not want to automagically remove physical swap
> on
> upgrade, but it would be nice to have howto that describes how to
> enable zram together with removal of physical swap.

That should also include how to modify resume= parameter and regenerate
BLS / grub configuration.

> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Chris Murphy
> > ___
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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Hash: SHA512

On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 02:03 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 1:33 AM Igor Raits
>  wrote:
> > 
> > > == Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
> > > 
> > > Add Supplements:fedora-release-common to zram-generator to pull
> > > it in
> > > on upgrades.
> > 
> > I would do it other way around just to keep logic sane.
> 
> Hmmm.

The fedora-release package is a "dummy" one, so there is no reason to
"Supplement" it because it is meaningless, but having it other way
around should be better.

> 
> > 
> > > Existing systems without swap will have swap-on-zram enabled.
> > > 
> > > Existing systems with swap-on-drive, will also have swap-on-zram
> > > enabled (two swap devices), with higher priority for the zram
> > > device.
> > > Existing swap-on-drive will not be removed.
> > 
> > It would be nice to see this in action, what kind of issues this
> > might
> > bring.
> 
> A future feature might be zswap for this case. I've done a lot of
> testing with that too but I think it needs some synthetic or
> contrived
> cases to expose the hypothetically better LRU basis efficiency for
> what to evict from the cache to the swap-on-disk device. But making
> it
> easier for people to do these experiments with real workloads is a
> big
> part of the feature, while keeping the defaults conservative for
> starters.
> 
> 
> > I would appreciate here how to get to the state from swap-on-disk
> > (default workstation) to the new swap-on-zram (new default
> > workstation). So that people can see better how they would be
> > affected
> > by this change.
> 
> Good point. The feature for priority is not yet in zram-generator. A
> work around is to swapoff /dev/zram0 and then swapon -p 3000
> /dev/zram0. Now it has higher priority than swap-on-disk.

I mean to convert existing installation to the new way that would be
installed from scratch, so have only zram and not have physical swap. I
understand that we do not want to automagically remove physical swap on
upgrade, but it would be nice to have howto that describes how to
enable zram together with removal of physical swap.

> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Chris Murphy
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CompilerPolicy Change

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 09:52 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Ben Cotton wrote:
> > == Summary ==
> > Fedora has historically forced packages to build with GCC unless
> > the
> > upstream project for the package only supported Clang/LLVM.  This
> > change proposal replaces that policy with one where compiler
> > selection
> > for Fedora follows the package's upstream preferences.
> > 
> > == Owner ==
> > * Name: Jeff Law
> > * Email: l...@redhat.com
> 
> I am opposed to this change. Chromium and Firefox build fine with
> GCC. I 
> think that a distribution should be built with a consistent toolchain
> wherever possible.
> 
> Last I checked, there were several reasons why GCC is preferred over 
> Clang/LLVM in Fedora. And if that should ever change (or have changed
> already), then switching the systemwide default (reversing the rules,
> i.e., 
> using GCC only for those packages that do not build with Clang)
> should be 
> envisioned. But as far as I know, that is not the case at this time, 
> considering runtime performance, security features, etc.

Since I was not sure if clang is supported by Red Hat Toolchain team in
the same way as GCC, I've asked this in my reply. If they are supported
in the same manner (maintainers are as well developers in upstream and
work full-time on this, development versions are being tested in
rawhide early, etc…) I do not see a reason to disallow that.

- From the security features, do you have some specifics in mind? I saw
only from our CFLAGS/LDFLAGS, only the -fstack-clash-protection is not
yet supported, but it is being worked on (already in trunk, though only
for x86).

> I do not see why we should allow yet another special case for
> Firefox, nor 
> why we should let random packages make their own choice of compiler
> and risk 
> running into hidden binary incompatibilities. We have a system
> compiler for 
> a reason.

Well, if they are supported in the same way as GCC (in the sense as it
is not just being packaged in Fedora, but developed and properly tested
in Fedora), why not to declare that we have 2 system compilers?
Regarding hidden binary incompatibilities, those are the bugs that
needs to be fixed so I assume if maintainers of clang make commitment,
they will have to fix it because Clang will be 2nd system compiler.

> Kevin Kofler
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 08:54 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Ben Cotton wrote:
> > Swap is useful, except when it's slow. zram is a RAM drive that
> > uses
> > compression. Create a swap-on-zram during start-up. And no longer
> > use
> > swap partitions by default.
> > 
> > == Owner ==
> > * Name: [[User:chrismurphy| Chris Murphy]]
> > * Email: chrismur...@fedoraproject.org
> 
> I do not think it is safe to assume that zram is sufficient to
> completely 
> replace disk swap. We do not know how much RAM is actually available
> on all 
> users' machines, and the compressibility of RAM contents depends on
> the 
> individual user's workloads.

The change says it will use 50% of user’s RAM size, but not more than
4G. I did not have chance to test how compression ratio depends on
workloads, but I believew that it will be far more better than 1:1.

Probably there should be some presets in Anaconda with "profiles" that
may default to different swap / zram configurations. But I think as
long as typical use-cases of users are covered (that's how I understand
these settings were chosen), it seems to be better than status quo.

> So, I am opposed to this change as is.
> 
> > # Install systemd rust-zram-generator† package. This does not
> > enable
> > swap-on-zram, it only makes the generator available.
> 
> Also -1 to adding something to the core system that is written in a
> language 
> for which we do not even have dynamic linking support. Or even real
> static 
> linking support, as opposed to packaging libraries as source code.

This is not fair. It is a programming language that is safer than C and
is already used by some projects that we ship. rpm-ostree, firefox,
librsvg2 and others.

> Kevin Kofler
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CompilerPolicy Change

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 09:16 +0200, Frantisek Zatloukal wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 9:11 AM Igor Raits <
> ignatenkobr...@fedoraproject.org>
> wrote:
> 
> > Also we probably should mention that -fstack-clash-protection is
> > not
> > available in clang, so in theory binaries can be less secure due to
> > that.
> > 
> 
> This seems to be worked on as per 
> https://reviews.llvm.org/D68720?id=224102 (on
> x86, I am not sure on what arches GCC supports -fstack-clash-
> protection ).

Yeah, I think this was mentioned in the
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/redhat-rpm-config/pull-request/89#comment-45723

- From what I see, GCC supports it on x86, x86_64, s390x, riscv64,
ppc64le. So this just does not include ARM / AArch64 from Fedora
architectures.

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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
. So that people can see better how they would be affected
by this change.

> 
>  Test Day 
> 
> [https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/632 QA: SwapOnzram Test Day] to
> discover edge cases, and tweak the default configuration if necessary
> to establish a good one-size-fits all approach.
> 
> 
> == User Experience ==
> 
> The user won't notice anything displeasing. If their usual workload
> causes them to dread swap thrashing, they'll be surprised that
> thrashing doesn't happen. The user might get curious if they don't
> find a swap entry in /etc/fstab. Or if they 'swapon' and see swap
> pointing to /dev/zram0 instead of a
> drive partition or LV.
> 
> 
> == Dependencies ==
> 
> N/A
> 
> 
> == Contingency Plan ==
> 
> * Contingency mechanism: Don't ship the generator = big hammer, but
> easy. Preferable to ship the generator, but only selectively ship
> configuration files = scalpel, pretty easy.
> * Contingency deadline: Beta freeze
> * Blocks release? No.
> * Blocks product? No.
> 
> 
> == Documentation ==
> 
> Consider adding a hint in an /etc/fstab comment? There is no man page
> for this, and the documentation is also minimal, besides what's in
> this feature proposal. It's an open question how the user should get
> more information on how to configure and tweak it. But then, they
> don't have that for swap today either. There's just institutional
> knowledge.
> 
> Hence, a strong test day, with a lot of people and press coverage of
> the feature, might help spread the word for institutional knowledge
> changes coming.
> 
> Ideas welcome.
> 
> 
> == Release Notes ==
> Pending feedback and test day.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ben Cotton
> He / Him / His
> Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream
> Red Hat
> TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
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Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CompilerPolicy Change

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
 is whatever the upstream project supports/recommends.  However, there
> are
> probably many packages with upstreams that are ambivalent about their
> compiler
> choice.  For those packages I would recommend we keep the status quo
> at the
> current time.  For a package with a dead upstream, the Fedora
> packager should be
> able to select the compiler they want to use for the package.
> 
> == Release Notes ==
> This change should not have any end user impacts nor does it strictly
> require a release note.  However, a short release note could be
> written if FESCo or the development community thinks it would be
> useful.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ben Cotton
> He / Him / His
> Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream
> Red Hat
> TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
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Re: subtle issue with systemd, dnf 'greedy' obsoletes behaviour, and multiple repos

2020-06-05 Thread Igor Raits
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On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 08:38 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Miro Hrončok wrote:
> 
> > On 01. 06. 20 23:10, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > It was actually a bit tricky to come up with a solution for this.
> > > I
> > > hacked up a minimal reproducer with empty packages, and
> > > experimented a
> > > bit, and the solution I was able to find that works is to have
> > > systemd-
> > > udev Obsoletes: systemd < 245.6-1. This seems to correctly clue
> > > DNF in
> > > to the situation and cause it to leave out anything from 245.4-
> > > 1.fc32
> > > in the upgrade.
> > 
> > IMO this is the "correct" solution to the problem. Thanks.
> 
> The correct solution is to actually fix DNF. It MUST NOT take
> Obsoletes from 
> outdated versions of packages (i.e., when there is a newer version in
> the 
> repository which removes the Obsoletes) into account.

https://github.com/openSUSE/libsolv/issues/146

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