Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
But there should be some reason for that lack of interested volunteers in Fedora. Right now I'm looking at stats for other distributions which are not going to drop i686 any time soon, e.g. Debian, NixOS, Gentoo. There must me some very fundamental difference with how they operate. Of course one of the reasons might be that some are relying on users to build packages themselves. OTOH they have their own CI, binary repositories/caches and Debian only has binaries for its package management. Why the difference? I'm not sure... ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
Yes, that's understandable. But this is beating of a dead horse. But what matters now is that by doing some small investigation i686 users can still get support for their bugs which are common for both platforms. This doesn't require any formalities like SIG or commitments which they can't make and it is always available for anyone who can afford to spend some additional time if such bug affects them bad enough. I think this could work better than previous attempts at keeping x86 SIG alive. Of course nothing prevents some volunteers to do above work on behalf of other users or create mirrors for distribution of i686 packages. But this is not critical to keep things running. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
I did test some of these desktops in the past. From my experience LXDT should be just fine. Anyway, thanks for reminding me, because I was so used to standard Fedora desktop that completely forgot about such alternatives. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
Even better. That means that you can still get support for x86 but it will require some more work on the user's side. They should just check if that bug is indeed i686 specific. I believe that all that argument for the lats three days was completely unnecessary and should be blamed on an utterl failure of communication. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
And even that might not be necessary at all because most bugs are common between 32 and 64-bit. Honestly, I don't think such SIG was really needed after all. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
But that's actually the same that I was trying to say. Meeting that activity statistics is the essence of such formal group. But grass-roots enthusiasts don't have such commitments. They can do some work occasionally if time allows but there is no strict agenda. This contradicts those expectations which you describe. So while there are people ready to do some work sometimes they just don't meet those criteria and this is not enough to be able to call them SIG. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
Yes, I've already answered that. It's surely possible, but my experience shows that putting too much efforts in a too broad customization doesn't pay off in the end. Every time you'll upgrade to a new version it breaks. As for using another desktop, I should seriously consider it. Probably I was too careless by using Fedora's default preferences. But again, as my experience shows using anything other than Gnome gives you worse support from developers. But I have nothing to lose anyway. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
No, of course I didn't mean that it was some random developer's fault. By "the project" I definitely meant PR and HR in a broad sense. Expecting such casual participants like me to self-organize is a wild idea. Even placing some advertisement on Fedora's landing page would be a big help. I suppose that SIG is a much formal entity than just a bunch of individuals performing some non-regular activities. Even mailing list activity is part of that FESCo criteria. And there are Bugzilla, etc. If that really was that simple then just subscribing to that list would be enough to get support for x86 architecture and we wouldn't be here. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
> You are welcome to use the koji buildroot repo for that. > https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/repos/f30-build/latest Thanks. That would be just splendid, but won't it cease to exist after Fedora 30 EOL? Then it's just a temporary workaround. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
Did I? I thought that I've said that I'm using x86_64 kernel right now and that I have my memory stretched to the limits already. But yes, I've experimented with x86_64 userland some time ago, I don't remember exact numbers but I think that I've lost 100-200 MB of memory. And I have not much time to experiment every time something have changed. You are right that I can reduce memory footprint by carefully tuning my system. But that's what I've already did and Fedora breaks it just too often. I'm used to work without GNOME on my other computer that have only 32-bit CPU. But it started to be very painful to upgrade to newer Fedora releases. So, when I've got 64-bit computer I've just went with the flow and don't customize parts I'm not really interested in. I want to spend on it as little time as possible. Going for my own Linux from scratch is just not viable. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
Thanks. I wouldn't say there is a "hostility" here. It might be hubris at a time, but mostly indifference. Though, that might frustrate anyone as well. It's good to know that there are people like you here. But I'm afraid that the cost of bureaucratic barriers is too high for any single person. And the primary reason why that SIG initiative never worked is that the project didn't put any significant efforts to make that happen. See, if I would join that list now there will be just one person - me. And I don't have ability or time to actively search for and convince other people to join that list. As time goes by I won't participate in that list too often and others won't either. To keep being recognized by Fedora officials there are just not enough activists out there. While we still can support that architecture occasionally on a case by case basis, there is no possibility to meet FESCO approved criteria. That means that there will never be official recognition despite the fact that such interested people still exist. There are just two options as I currently see it. Either we can be a low activity grass-roots enthusiasts and find our own ways to contribute packages, e.g. COPR might be useful. Or we can join more resourceful community, e.g. Debian. Or we can do both. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
Oh, brother... So, you are insisting that Koji just doesn't work without any assistance? And that it's impossible to build a separate i686 repository without affecting all others? And that you can't exclude that architecture for a specific package? If that's the case then it's very different from what I already knew. I didn't answered your other question because I've answered the same question several times already. Yes, I have a use cases where I'll get a severe performance hit if I was not careful. And this is related to available memory and swapping. And I can't afford losing yet another hundred megabytes for no particular reason. And I don't think that constantly upgrading my computer is the answer. I remember times when it was possible to install Red Hat Linux on a computer with 32 MB of RAM. Going in that direction I should do nothing but upgrade every now and then even though I don't want my computer to affect my activities that hard. And some people thought that Windows 95 was a memory hog! Honestly, I'm tired. And I don't think that arguing further will be of any help. I'm convinced that I really have no other choice but just use some Linux distribution that doesn't requires me to spend so much time explaining to everyone why I need things in my life to be the way I need it. And it reminds me about some guy who maintains some quite popular software. He used some old SUSE until he was forced to upgrade. After struggling with consequences he just bought Apple computer with Mac OS. He explained that he is just too old to waste so much time on unimportant things. I don't remember his name. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
And if I don't use those packages, then why should I be unable to use everything else just because there are some small problems? Especially because there are not much users of that architecture anyway. That happens all the time already and I see no big problem with that. If these packages affect another architecture that would be a problem for them, but I think that decoupling unsupported repositories should solve that problem. That would be good anyway for a number of reasons. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
And why people are not reading all the answers? That was a rhethorical question. I said it already several times, that I don't need volunteers to fix things for me! I just need an already built repository which I could just use and fix things myself if needed. But Fedora is refusing to provide such repository which was built automatically by Koji. I don't care if something was broken in that repository as long as I can access those binaries and fix them if needed. But no matter how frequently I repeat it, I'm always get answers that I'm insisting that somebody should work for me. No I'm not. If it's so difficult to keep that repository around, then it's just fine with me and I'll find another way. But that would be very unfortunate. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: [EXT] Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
And I thought that should be obvious, silly me. Just kidding. Of course I would do it if there were no better choice. I'm just struggling to find out if there is no other possibility whatsoever. There might be reasons why Fedora is just unable to keep it updated that I don't know. And of course I could use another repository provided by some other distribution. I'm just trying to find out what are my options. I would prefer to keep using modern Fedora unless I'm forced not to. Just in case. There is no reason to believe that I'm upset or frustrated. That's just a conversation which might get heated at a time for various reasons which are not directly related to the subject. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
Well, thanks for sharing. I'm not complaining that nobody wants to fix things for me. I'm complaining because there is no possibility to fix things myself. After removing i686 repository I'm either should start building it myself or switch to another distribution. I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, I just have no other choice. If there is no possibility to keep that repository than it's fine, but I was not convinced that there are other reasons for that decision aside bureaucratic ones and lack of empathy. If putting that repository on some optional host for anyone to be able to fix it themselves would severely harm the project then I was wrong all along and I'm really sorry. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
I don't even know anyone whom I could address. I'm already spent too much time on that list trying to convince everyone that I'm ready to take all the burden of using unsupported packages, but was told that it's against Fedora policies. What much could I do? As for using i686 userland just look above in that thread, where I've already explained that my memory is already stretched enough and I have not enough reasons to buy a new computer just because some OS requirements. You should understand that computers are not that important for many users. They have more important things in their life and using Fedora is just a convenience. I can switch to another distribution if there is no other choice, but the reasons for that decision are so obscure, that it required such a long thread just to find it out. Also, it's not very convincing for end users when they get a long description of bureaucratic reasons why they just can't use packages anymore that they were already using and that other distribution happily provide. I'm sorry if this caused a lot of traffic on this list, but I was not aware of that problem up to the last moment. And you can expect some other users like me to complain when they will be confronted with the fact. Just announcing it on the first page two years ago would have avoided that problem. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
I don't have time to search for it right now, but there is a law which states that no matter how much resources you already get they will be stretched thin anyway. I did upgrades many times but every time it was proved that it still wasn't enough. It's a useless rat race. We have much more important things to do because life is too short. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
Ok, now I see that Fedora is just for activists. If I'm not one of them then I don't deserve any possibility to use it and should blame myself. Thanks for explaining it to me. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
No, I don't think so. I'm using some (non Fedora related) applications which use every bit of available memory. It's a bit stressed just as it is, but losing additional couple of megabytes for no useful reason will be too much a hit. And I can't change their code, because that codebase is big and complex (as usual) and I just don't have enough time to do everything myself. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
I would argue that it might be difficult to distinguish work needed to find out if it was i686 specific when there already is similar bug on x86_64. Also, it's difficult to rate bug importance for most users. As I've already said that I was completely satisfied with the status quo and it was a big surprise for me to discover that I just won't be able to upgrade to the next version. Also, this discovery was purely accidental because there is no announcements anywhere I could see. Anyway, I would be prepared to fix things myself if such possibility was given to me. But alas there is no choice now. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
But how do you now that I'm not fixed it myself and forgot to post on that list? Or that I'm even just used to live with that bug and just don't want to spend all my time chasing it? I'm pretty sure that I can point point out bugs in official Fedora repository that were dormant for several years without any conclusion and nobody dropped support for all those applications just for that reason. Anyway, I'm not expecting that something will change because of that discussion. It is just bad that the interests of users are of a lower priority then some purely bureaucratic reasons. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
Thanks for the suggestion. But I'm sure that I don't need so much bureaucracy just to run my little errands. If that's how Fedora is operated, than it won't make much difference for me to just using another distribution. BTW, that just means that Fedora is refusing to provide much needed services even to a people who are ready to accept most of that support burden themselves and I'm one of them. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
Yes, thanks. Sadly, I see that I have no choice but to switch to another distribution even though I'm using 64-bit CPU. It's just that the memory can't be upgraded and buying new computer just to keep running Fedora is not viable. It's 12 years old, is in good condition and I'm completely satisfied with its performance for my needs. I wonder what owners of thin terminals will do if they used Fedora, especially if there are many of them. The cost of upgrading some old terminals for some school can be too high. Maintaining my own distribution is a little too much for me at the moment. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
First of all thanks for the link. It just proves that the SIG's expectations were too high. If I understand it all correctly, the main reason to drop i686 repo was the mailing list inactivity? Is that right? So everyone interested in that architecture is now deprived from using it on Fedora because some formalities were not met? And if I have no time to participate in that list, I can't fix problems myself? Because without that repository I'm forced to use other distribution. That's just... weird. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
No I didn't, but I must be sure that you speak on behalf of everyone before making my choices. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
So, if I'd start to use Debian i686 instead of Fedora or will use ARM32 device instead of ARM64 the world will be a safer place? Also, I was told that maintaining i686 Fedora code base myself would be fine, but in the same time I'm told that it's not acceptable from the safety point of view. Why I'm smelling a contradiction here? In short: the decision to drop i686 support is supported by contradicting statements, while at the same time if I want to be taken seriously, I should bring strong evidence. That's very objective discussion. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
I'm happy with any support no matter how it is defined. In fact I didn't get very much support from Fedora either over more than 20 years, so my expectations are quite low. If there is something more relevant than freedom of choice, then there is no point arguing further, because I value community relations over any technical reasons. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
There is no either right or wrong stance here. We are discussing possible alternatives to "just drop it" attitude. What work should be done? Please, be more specific. Right now I'm running a i686 userland and it works. If I would be able to build the whole repository myself I'm pretty sure that most things will still work. If it won't work I might try to fix it and contribute patches back. But without that repository I can't even try it in the first place. You are just pushing me and others away, so we should go use other distributions which provide ready to run builds. And I'm not talking about i686 *kernel* anywhere. We are talking about *userland* only. I'm running 64-bit CPU all along, but I have limited memory. Others could use laptops with restricted memory which would be a performance hit if they start using x86_64 userland. You are not providing any alternative but starting to build everything ourselves or stop using Fedora and move elsewhere. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
I will do whatever I can and it's not much for ANY architecture, x86_64 is not an exception. That's because I'm not very young and have a lot of other more important activities which is not related to computers. That said, I'm not expecting very much in return either. If it would somehow work on a level which was usual for RMS era it would be enough for me. I've used Linux on my own in many cases. The only thing that I expect from any Linux distribution is to just BUILD it for me. Because it's impossible to rebuild so many packages with my very limited resources. I'm not asking for full blow support, but leaving even semi-broken repository intact would be a great help for me and may be others who know from which side to use computers. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
May be there are more interested people that we know, but they are not reading that list. There will just be just every man for himself and Fedora has failed to recognize that. This requires time and effort too. Nobody will appear just by a miracle. I recognize that there is much less people interested in this architecture but it's much more than zero. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
Ok, if that's so hard then I'm apologize for not recognizing the pain. OTOH, if Debian has resources to maintain the support for at least next five years it means one of two things: either they have more resources than Fedora, or something is wrong with your assessment. I'd help with maintaining 32-bit userland as much as I can. But I'm afraid that's not much. From my point of view the only support I need is that damn thing worked most of the time. And there no more bugs in i686 userland than in x86_64 one. If you really need so much patching than I simply don't understand why it still works on other supported 32-bit arches all over the world, e.g. ARM. P.S. And what it's all supposed to do with "Linux is NOT about choice"? This looks like just as an excuse to me for some other thing. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
Boy, am I glad you've said that. I was waiting for it. But looks like you are mistaken. First of all, it's not one, but at least two of them. Second, nobody else seems to be supporting your point. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
I'm sorry, but where did you saw that I said something about i686 *kernel*? I think that I explicitly mentioned *x86_64* kernel with i686 userland and described why it could be beneficial for some users with limited memory. As for security, I don't think that running your own computer in a tightly controlled environment should be *that* dangerous. At least many users did it for years without problems. That looks like a scare. In either case it's the user who should decide what's best for him. I don't think that educated grown-up people should be treated like babies. Other distributions might drop it or not, we'll see. At least Debian is not dropping it yet. But this is a moot point now. After all those discussions I see that nobody really cares about user interests here. At least in Debian's case they stated that their users interests is of utmost priority to them in contrast to just useless technical innovation. And I'm not a proponent of consumerism. So take it lightly. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal (late): No i686 Repositories
That's nice to know Fedora's developers point of view on that subject. But I'm not subscribing to that view. I'm with Richard Stallman. And now I clearly see why he is opposed to OSS paradigm. Looks like I was in a wrong place for all these years. Time to move elsewhere. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
